Relative warmth of warm-water wetsuits?
David Russell Maffitt
talking to several local dive shops I see my options as:
1) 2mm neoprene, 2) 3mm neoprene, or 3) Darlex.
How would you rank them in terms of warmth and why?
It seems to me that the most important factor is good fit so that a small
amount of water is trapped next to your skin and not allowed to circulate.
Therefore, 2mm is as warm as 3mm but with two thirds of the buoyancy to
compensate for, right?
But where does Darlex fit in? The sales literature claims the same warmth as
3mm neoprene suits, but I am skeptical. The Darlex suits I tried on in the
dive shops were just too darn comfortable to be warm too ;^). Doesn't the
greater amount of flexibilty in the suits allow more water to circulate?
Also, if thickness of material is an important factor then Darlex should offer
the least warmth.
I would love to hear from anyone who has tried both in similar conditions.
If you haven't used both in similar conditions it is very difficult to draw
any general conclusions because everyone's tolerance to cold is different.
The Darlex is attractive because of its comfort and neutral buoyancy but it
is more expensive and I do not know if it is as warm.
My apologies if this is frequently asked question. I have only recently
discovered rec.scuba.
Happy diving,
Dave Maffitt d...@wubcl.wustl.edu
Tom Doeppner
(David Russell Maffitt) writes:
>I am currently in the market for some sort of warm-water wetsuit. After
>talking to several local dive shops I see my options as:
>1) 2mm neoprene, 2) 3mm neoprene, or 3) Darlex.
>
>How would you rank them in terms of warmth and why?
>
I have an SSA Darlex suit which was just right in 80 degree water.
I wore it in 76 degree water, with their chicken vest, and near froze
to death. I have a custom 3mm wetsuit in which I've been quite comfortable
down to 72 degrees.
Don't believe the marketing hype about the warmth of darlex suits!
Tom Doeppner
Brown University
t...@cs.brown.edu
Nicholas J. Simicich
Welcome to the group, Dave. (I sent Dave a copy of the faq. Gee,
another Dave.)
--
Nick Simicich - uunet!bywater!scifi!njs - n...@watson.ibm.com
SSI #AOWI 3958, HSA 318, NAUI #14065
Join the movement --- turn 'to bush' into a verb.
Larry Simpson
>talking to several local dive shops I see my options as:
>1) 2mm neoprene, 2) 3mm neoprene, or 3) Darlex.
>
>How would you rank them in terms of warmth and why?
>
>It seems to me that the most important factor is good fit so that a small
>amount of water is trapped next to your skin and not allowed to circulate.
>Therefore, 2mm is as warm as 3mm but with two thirds of the buoyancy to
>compensate for, right?
Water temps in the So Atlantic off Ft Lauderdale vary between 68 to 76 degrees
during the winter months. Most folks that dive year round will wear 3/16" or
1/8" full wetsuits. [Yeah, I know; most of ya'll would say that our waters are
bath tub temperatures. Remember, folks in So. Fla. have thin blood. :-) ]
The thicker wetsuit definitely provides more warmth; especially on long dives.
I have not worn a Darlex skin, but was doubtful about their advertising claims
of warmth equivalent to 3mm. Some folks here that have them are sorry they
paid the "high" price for them as they still need to wear a wetsuit over the
Darlex to stay warm.
>But where does Darlex fit in? The sales literature claims the same warmth as
>3mm neoprene suits, but I am skeptical.
You should be.
-------Larry (LW) Simpson
Lee Jones
I have my own pet theory about this. Look at the ads in Skin Diver or any other
glossy diving periodical. They contain people (see footnote 1) diving in
just swim suits and looking happy as clams. I believe this is a significant
attempt to (a) persuade people that the water is so warm you don't need a
wetsuit and (b) (see footnote 1 again). With respect to the United States,
I think resorts/dive operators in Florida and Hawaii are most guilty of this.
The result, of course, is that divers show up hideously unprepared for the
water temperature. I've never the Florida Keys so I can't say, but I dive
in a 3mm wetsuit in Hawaii *with a surfing hood* and I'm a much happier camper
after two one-hour dives. I was recently in Maui where the other divers I
was with showed up without *any* thermal protection whatsoever, and used
jacket-tops provided by the dive operator. Three of the five of them had
to end their dives early because they were cold. I think it's instructive to
note that the dive guides there wear full 3/16" suits and some (including Lisa
Choquette of Dive Makai) wear hoods.
Frankly, I think the California charter operations wish they could show the
same scene, but their models would become hypothermic so quickly that the
blue skin tint would show up in the pictures :-).
Regards, Lee
Footnote 1: These people are generally extremely attractive young ladies in
fairly skimpy swimming suits. I will be discrete enough to avoid
further comment about pressure and temperature effects on same.
Larry Simpson
>>>compensate for, right?
>> Wrong. I believe 2mm = ~1/8" and 3mm = ~3/16" .
>
> Really? With 25.4 mm per inch, I calculate 3mm as about .12 inch,
> or about 1/8 inch. Am I missing something?
>
> Steve
>
OK, so my metric conversions are off by an order of magnitude, picky, picky!
-------Larry (LW) Simpson
>
>--
>- Stephen M. Dodd, System Analyst, Oregon Extension Service
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>sd...@oes.orst.edu Internet Oregon State University
>503-737-0699 Corvallis, OR 97331
Stephen_M_Dodd
>In article <1992May13.2...@wuecl.wustl.edu> drm...@wuee1.wustl.edu (David Russell Maffitt) writes:
>>I am currently in the market for some sort of warm-water wetsuit. After
>>talking to several local dive shops I see my options as:
>>1) 2mm neoprene, 2) 3mm neoprene, or 3) Darlex.
>>
>>How would you rank them in terms of warmth and why?
>>
>>It seems to me that the most important factor is good fit so that a small
>>amount of water is trapped next to your skin and not allowed to circulate.
>>Therefore, 2mm is as warm as 3mm but with two thirds of the buoyancy to
>>compensate for, right?
> Wrong. I believe 2mm = ~1/8" and 3mm = ~3/16" .
Really? With 25.4 mm per inch, I calculate 3mm as about .12 inch,
or about 1/8 inch. Am I missing something?
Steve
Lawrence Leong
I am currently in the market for some sort of warm-water wetsuit. After
talking to several local dive shops I see my options as:
1) 2mm neoprene, 2) 3mm neoprene, or 3) Darlex.
Check out the FAQ -- apparently there were some problems reported with Darlex
(Darlexx (sp?)). I dive in Asia ('cos I live here), and I use a 3mm neoprene
wet suit. I believe the difference between 2 & 3mm also affects warmth
in addition to bouyancy. 3mm has that extra layer of insulation and bubbles.
Wet suits keep you warm thru both a thin, non-moving warm layer of water, and
direct thermal insulation. A 2mm wetsuit (I haven't tried this) with good
fit will keep water circulation to a minimum too, so I guess the perceived
difference would be your natural insulation and thermal threshold. No insult
intended.
Note that tropical waters are supposed to be warm, but I still need a wetsuit
'cos of my low body insulation (doctor tells me I've 14% fat only).
How would you rank them in terms of warmth and why?
It seems to me that the most important factor is good fit so that a small
amount of water is trapped next to your skin and not allowed to circulate.
Therefore, 2mm is as warm as 3mm but with two thirds of the buoyancy to
compensate for, right?
see above.
But where does Darlex fit in? The sales literature claims the same warmth as
3mm neoprene suits, but I am skeptical. The Darlex suits I tried on in the
dive shops were just too darn comfortable to be warm too ;^). Doesn't the
greater amount of flexibilty in the suits allow more water to circulate?
Also, if thickness of material is an important factor then Darlex should offer
the least warmth.
I have not tried Darlex, but the suits I have seen on sale have large lycra
panels along the length of the body, arms and legs. This gives a better fit
and ease of donning/removal. This leads to some mental doubts as to the
ability to keep water circulation to a minimum. Lycra is permeable and
does not afford warmth (I've used a dive skin before). Correct me if I'm
wrong.
Carl Heinzl
>I have not tried Darlex, but the suits I have seen on sale have large lycra
>panels along the length of the body, arms and legs. This gives a better fit
>and ease of donning/removal. This leads to some mental doubts as to the
>ability to keep water circulation to a minimum. Lycra is permeable and
>does not afford warmth (I've used a dive skin before). Correct me if I'm
>wrong.
I won't say you're wrong, but from the advertising that I've seend,
the SSA suits are *supposedly* impermeable. I believe they're
supposed to have two layers of Darlexx separated by the impermeable
membrane.
-Carl-
--
Lawrence Leong
Is Darlexx a new material?
I still have not tried Darlexx and admittedly don't know much about these
suits, but here's an extract from the recent-most FAQ.....
---------------------- start extract ------------------------------------
6: I'm thinking about buying a [wetsuit/drysuit/diveskin/Darlexx
skin]. What are the differences between them, and what are they
good for?
6a: Diveskins are typically made of Lycra or some other stretchy
fabric. The warmth supplied is minimal. Typically, they are used
to prevent stings from jellyfish, and to protect from accidental
coral contact. Sport divers tend to wear skins in water warmer
than 80F degrees, or under wetsuits, so that the wetsuit will
slide on easier.
Next up in warmth is the Darlexx suit. This is a suit that is
similar to a diveskin, but which is made out of a fabric that
slows water flow. There have been reported problems with the
Darlexx fabric "delaminating" or coming apart. An alternative is
made by Aeroskin, and uses polypropylene and lycra. Depending on
how warm blooded you are, you might be able to wear Darlexx
comfortably down to 72F. A Darlexx suit is a wetsuit. It does
not fit like a diveskin, and is not really a substitute for a
skin.
---------------------- start extract ------------------------------------
I'm not saying Darlexx is lousy, just trying to help the original poster
with his choice.
If there are others with other good/bad experiences with Darlexx, I'd
be glad to hear them too -- hey, my neoprene suit will eventually wear out
too, so the sooner I get the pros & cons, the better.
Happy diving
Lawrence Leong
Lawrence Leong
Darlexx IS an impermeable membrane. Darlexx is essentually, two layers of a
Lycra-type material with a water/wind-proof material sandwiched between.
Just a clarification. 8^)
Thank you.
Lawrence Leong
Nicholas J. Simicich
There are two different sorts/brands of suits. There are the partial
darlex with lycra panels, which seem of little use at all to me, and
the all darlexx suits, like the SSA Wombat.
The all Darlexx suits fit more like wetsuits than skins.