Re: VIDEO: Belligerant, demanding no-English Mexican berates Americans over DWI checkpoints
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick
"Brent" <tetraethylle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hjj5co$f8q$5...@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 2010-01-24, Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick <Popey...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> What's amazing is that it's people like -you- who refuse to admit
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> were Smedley's employer.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not. I employ no one. Money is taken from me under coersion.
>>>>
>>>> No it's not.
>>>>
>>>> You agree to participate, and you can exercise other options.
>>>
>>> I don't agree. The only reason I pay is because of the threat of
>>> violence.
>>
>> Doesn't matter why you do, only that you do.
>>
>> You don't have to.
>
> Since when is the threat of death or prison not 'having to'?
You choose to be a member of this society.
You can choose not to be.
Any time.
>> There are plenty of places you can go to avoid these taxes, and even
>> places in the U.S..
>
> No there isn't. You do know that the US federal government does not
> consider people who leave the country outside it's reach?
There's no number tatoo'd on your arm.
There are -all- sorts of people in this country that isolate themselves to
avoid the government.
>> But you're not willing to sacrifice your -membership- in the society
>> that
>> the taxes created and maintain.
>
> Society is not the government.
No, but the society (that's you) elected the government, and defers to it.
>> Your shtick doesn't fool anybody, not even yourself.
>> Your -cut- from your easy lifestyle paid for the bombs Israel dropped
>> in
>> Gaza.
>
> Actually the people of the middle east would not care about the USA if
> the US federal government wasn't dropping bombs on them itself or
> through proxies.
Sorry, brainwashed boy.
They hate us because we have religious freedom and a higher standard of
life, and for no other reason.
They always hated us, and always will.
>>>> You want all the benefits, and none of the responsibility.
>
>>> I get no benefits.
>
>> Sure you do, every time you back out of your driveway, flip a light
>> switch, walk into a Wal-Mart.
>
> All of which is provided or could be provided by private companies and
> individuals.
Who are voluntary members of the society that elected the government.
>> Or post on the internet.
>
> Private companies again.
Who are voluntary members of the society that elected the government.
>>>> That's primarily what's wrong with our country today.
>>>
>>> I am not responsible for what the criminals with govern...<snip blah,
>>> blah, blah>
>>
>> Sure you are.
>> It's your government.
>> And as long as it is, you're responsible.
>
> If it was mine, it would be much different and practically wouldn't
> exist. Since that is untrue, it's not mine.
Lock, stock and barrel.
Yours.
>>>>>> Like you are of all the Marines overseas today.
>>>>>> You.
>>>
>>>>> Nope.
>>>
>>>> How's Obama's secret war on our ally Pakistan doing?
>>>
>>> Killing 9 regular people for every 'bad guy'. Such is what the empire
>>> does.
>
>> Absolutely.
>> It's how we got the land you live on.
>
> 'we' who's 'we'?
Those government thugs you employ.
>> You've benefitted from such action your whole life (like your parents
>> and
>> grandparents, and all they provided you with), and are happy for it.
>
> You don't know where I or my ancestors came from or when. BTW: You're
> wrong. again.
Doesn't matter.
Even if you're first generation, which I highly doubt, the place you live
used to belong to someone else, and was forcefully taken.
>>>>>> "The Government" this, "the Government" that
>>>>>> It's you.
>>>>>> Sorry, dude.
>>>
>>>>> I didn't approve of it, I didn't endorse it. I don't consent to it.
>>>
>>>> Every minute of every day.
>>>
>>> Nope. Remove the threat of violence and I'll stop paying taxes
>>> immediately.
>
>> As would most.
>
> So you admit it's coercison.
No.
>> I'm grossly affronted at having to pay for the N.E.A. so they can
>> finance
>> people like you to make "sculpture" out of dog shit.
>> There's just oodles I don't want to pay taxes for (although the Gaza
>> bombs
>> were a great investment).
>
> So you like killing people. Not a surprise from a former government
> thug.
More like, I don't care that certain people get killed.
High on that list are the Palestinians.
>> But you still have other alternatives to all this abhorrence that you
>> note
>> and all this indignation that you feign.
>> You're just too scared and lazy to avail yourself to them.
>
> Yes, death, prison, and torture do frighten me. I admit it.
Ever more reason for you to leave civilization now, before "they" drag you
off to the gulag.
A guy as "special" as you might even get a ride in a black helicopter...
>> You willingly stay, which means you willingly profit, which means you
>> must
>> contribute, and that makes you responsible, regardless of how you
>> pedantically try to deny it.
>
> Leave? Sadly, I don't know any aliens (the kind from other planets) with
> a space craft I can rent to get away from a world-wide empire.
WOW.
Now -that's- a level of paranoia that I may not have ever witnessed, even
on Usenet.
>>>>>>>> We've always had all those things, still have them today, and
>>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>>> will.
>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, it's been like this for a very long time and slowly getting
>>>>>>> worse
>>>>>>> and you're a frog. (That's not an insult either, it's reference to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> old saying about a frog being brought to a boil slowly)
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think I'll go buy a (nother) handgun tomorrow.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's nice.
>>>
>>>> People who possess true freedom can.
>>>> Citizens in neither of the countries that border us could do so.
>>>
>>> For the moment.
>>
>> Forever, dude.
>
> HAHAHAHAA.
>
--
--
Popeye
"If one does as God does enough times, one
will become as God is." -Dr. Hannibal Lector.
www.finalprotectivefire.com
http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762
Dennis (Icarus)
"Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popey...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bvudne-69_eD2cPW...@supernews.com...
>
> "Brent" <tetraethylle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:hjj5co$f8q$5...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>>> Your shtick doesn't fool anybody, not even yourself.
>>> Your -cut- from your easy lifestyle paid for the bombs Israel dropped
>>> in
>>> Gaza.
>>
>> Actually the people of the middle east would not care about the USA if
>> the US federal government wasn't dropping bombs on them itself or
>> through proxies.
>
> Sorry, brainwashed boy.
>
> They hate us because we have religious freedom and a higher standard of
> life, and for no other reason.
>
Don't forget our support for Israel.
And our "decadent" culture, broadcast throughout the world.
<snip>
Dennis
John Van Ostrand
wrote:
> "Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye8...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:bvudne-69_eD2cPW...@supernews.com...
> > They hate us because we have religious freedom and a higher standard of
> > life, and for no other reason.
>
> Don't forget our support for Israel.
> And our "decadent" culture, broadcast throughout the world.
>
> <snip>
>
> Dennis
I think they hate the US for exploiting their people and resources(and
giving very little back), for ruining their way of life and their
environment, for inciting violence against their governments (some of
whom were democratically elected) and for assassinating or invading
their countries.
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick
"John Van Ostrand" <john.van...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:52ecd886-2663-4881...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Compared to what other countries that did the same?
Do you think Europe was any less invasive?
And "ruining their way of life"?
From who's perspective?
"Giving little back"?
As compared to their own governments?
They traded what little impact on their environment you could cite for oil
money.
And they do a lot more assassinating and invading of their countries than
we do.
I stand by my point.
Zeke
"John Van Ostrand" <john.van...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:52ecd886-2663-4881...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
*****************************************************
Just like the Europeans did in their colonial days? Or worse during the
crusades?
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4809 (20100127) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick
"Zeke" <ne...@news.news> wrote in message
news:a8idnfI2_5KXsf3W...@giganews.com...
>
> "John Van Ostrand" <john.van...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:52ecd886-2663-4881...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 26, 5:25 am, "Dennis \(Icarus\)" <nojunkm...@ever.invalid>
> wrote:
>> "Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye8...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:bvudne-69_eD2cPW...@supernews.com...
>
>> > They hate us because we have religious freedom and a higher standard of
>> > life, and for no other reason.
>>
>> Don't forget our support for Israel.
>> And our "decadent" culture, broadcast throughout the world.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Dennis
>
> I think they hate the US for exploiting their people and resources(and
> giving very little back), for ruining their way of life and their
> environment, for inciting violence against their governments (some of
> whom were democratically elected) and for assassinating or invading
> their countries.
>
> *****************************************************
>
> Just like the Europeans did in their colonial days? Or worse during the
> crusades?
But remember, Europeans are morally superior to us nasty Americans...
Right?
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick
>
> "John Van Ostrand" <john.van...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:52ecd886-2663-4881...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jan 26, 5:25 am, "Dennis \(Icarus\)" <nojunkm...@ever.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>> "Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye8...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> messagenews:bvudne-69_eD2cPW...@supernews.com...
>>
>>> > They hate us because we have religious freedom and a higher standard
>>> > of
>>> > life, and for no other reason.
>>>
>>> Don't forget our support for Israel.
>>> And our "decadent" culture, broadcast throughout the world.
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>
>> I think they hate the US for exploiting their people and resources(and
>> giving very little back), for ruining their way of life and their
>> environment, for inciting violence against their governments (some of
>> whom were democratically elected) and for assassinating or invading
>> their countries.
Iran leader predicts destruction of Israel
TEHRAN (AFP) - Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is confident
Islamic nations will one day watch the destruction of arch-foe Israel, his
website Wednesday quoted him as saying.
Khamenei made the remark during a meeting with Mauritanian President
Mohammed Ould Abdel Aziz in Tehran, the website said.
The all-powerful Iranian leader also said that Israel's continued "pressure
to erase Palestine from the world of Islamic nations" will fail.
"Surely, the day will come when the nations of the region will witness the
destruction of the Zionist regime... when the destruction happens will
depend on how the Islamic nations approach the issue," Khamenei told Aziz,
who arrived in Tehran on Monday.
"The Zionist regime, by continuing to use pressure, blockades and committing
genocide, wants to erase Palestine... but it will not succeed."
Praising Mauritania for cutting its ties with Israel, Khamenei said the
"Zionist regime is a great danger to the world of Islam as it was thinking
of expanding its influence and grip on the region every day."
Iranian officials, including Khamenei and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad,
have earned the wrath of Israel and Western powers for their repeated
anti-Israel comments.
Relations between the two nations have deteriorated particularly under
Ahmadinejad who has often said that Israel is "doomed to be wiped off the
map" and has termed the Holocaust a "myth".
Israel shut down its embassy in Nouakchott following Mauritania's decision
in January 2009 to suspend diplomatic ties with the Jewish state a decade
after they were launched.
Mauritania was one of only three Arab nations that had formal diplomatic
ties with Israel, apart from Egypt and Jordan.
Zeke
Having seen it first hand I'll have to say - NOT!
When you look at the American people in general and look at them seperately
from their government, they are truly good folks. Take the amount of
private $$ raised for Haiti earthquake relief versus the U.N. or any other
government as an example.
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4810 (20100127) __________
John Van Ostrand
> Just like the Europeans did in their colonial days? Or worse during the
> crusades?
You are making my point for me ;) The US is acting in other countries
just like the crusades and colonial Europe did in the past. The
difference is that the US is the most active at it today.
John Van Ostrand
<Popeye8...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Compared to what other countries that did the same?
>
> Do you think Europe was any less invasive?
>
> And "ruining their way of life"?
>
> From who's perspective?
From their perspective, of course. There are a small number of people
in foreign countries who benefit from the invasion of US corporations
into other countries. Those companies are displacing homes, polluting
environments, and paying poverty wages to the population.
How would you feel if you thought the another country assassinated
your elected leader and supported a dictator for the sole purpose that
he were not friendly to corporations. Then the new dictator forcefully
moved your community into a refugee camp so a corporation could
exploit the land's resources. Then they pollute your rivers and lakes
and cut down your forests spoiling your hunting grounds. You would
have just lost your ability to provide for you and your family.
> "Giving little back"?
Yes if you remove the top 2% or so who profit from US involvement, the
remaining population are poorer and sicker than before the
involvement.
> As compared to their own governments?
Governments that they believe have been helped into power by the US.
> They traded what little impact on their environment you could cite for oil
> money.
You mean the puppets that the US put into place traded their
environment.
> And they do a lot more assassinating and invading of their countries than
> we do.
All assisted by the US.
> I stand by my point.
And thus the problem continues.
Zeke
*******************************************************
So what exactly is wrong with that? If the Americans aren't doing it some
other country would be.
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4810 (20100127) __________
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick
I rest my case.
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick
> On Jan 27, 7:05 am, "Zeke" <n...@news.news> wrote:
>
>> Just like the Europeans did in their colonial days? Or worse during the
>> crusades?
>
> You are making my point for me ;)
Seems to me like he schwacked it.
> The US is acting in other countries
> just like the crusades and colonial Europe did in the past. The
> difference is that the US is the most active at it today.
Sure, after they blew down a hunk of NYC.
As you could see from my other cite, they have plenty of hate to go
around.
John Van Ostrand
> "Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye8...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:cbKdnR6uRd0Kov3W...@supernews.com...
> > But remember, Europeans are morally superior to us nasty Americans...
>
> > Right?
>
> Having seen it first hand I'll have to say - NOT!
>
> When you look at the American people in general and look at them seperately
> from their government, they are truly good folks. Take the amount of
> private $$ raised for Haiti earthquake relief versus the U.N. or any other
> government as an example.
I tend to think the same way. Americans can be very generous and
caring, it's their government and corporate greed that tends to cause
the problems. And ultimately who's responsible for the government?
If one looks at the US as a whole it could be compared to Al Capone. A
gangster who caused all sorts of death and misery but since he opened
soup kitchens some think he's a hero, I bet those inside his "gang"
looked up to him. Those outside his circle, how many thought he was
despicable?
Does what Americans do individually compensate for the war and
violence caused by the US government?
Brent
>
> "John Van Ostrand" <john.van...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9682bfb8-e243-4ed1...@g1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 27, 7:05 am, "Zeke" <n...@news.news> wrote:
>
>> Just like the Europeans did in their colonial days? Or worse during the
>> crusades?
>
> You are making my point for me ;) The US is acting in other countries
> just like the crusades and colonial Europe did in the past. The
> difference is that the US is the most active at it today.
>
> *******************************************************
>
> So what exactly is wrong with that? If the Americans aren't doing it some
> other country would be.
Most other countries learned why it's stupid the hard way. Broken
economies, massive debt, endless war....
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick
First, you'd have to take the position that wars that we're involved in
are unjust, and that the violence was unwarranted.
John Van Ostrand
> So what exactly is wrong with that? If the Americans aren't doing it some
> other country would be.
Nice logic.
So go ahead, break into your neighbours house. Or if white collar is
your method, then defraud people out of their life savings. After all,
if you don't do it someone else will.
John Van Ostrand
<Popeye8...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sure, after they blew down a hunk of NYC.
>
> As you could see from my other cite, they have plenty of hate to go
> around.
The meddling with sovereign foreign nations by the US government has
been happening since after WWII. This isn't something that just
happened after 9/11.
John Van Ostrand
<Popeye8...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> First, you'd have to take the position that wars that we're involved in
> are unjust, and that the violence was unwarranted.
Not at all. Looking at it one war at a time is a myopic view. The
bigger picture is what's important.
Who gave Saddam training and weapons and helped him overthrow Iran's
leader and finally Iraq's previous leader? Guess which country built
the chemical factories that produced the weapons of mass destruction.
The more the US plays God with foreign countries the more of a mess
they make, the more wars they end up fighting and the more terrorists
they create.
Brent
> On Jan 27, 10:09�am, "Zeke" <n...@news.news> wrote:
>> "Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye8...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:cbKdnR6uRd0Kov3W...@supernews.com...
>
>> > �But remember, Europeans are morally superior to us nasty Americans...
>>
>> > �Right?
>>
>> Having seen it first hand I'll have to say - NOT!
>>
>> When you look at the American people in general and look at them seperately
>> from their government, they are truly good folks. �Take the amount of
>> private $$ raised for Haiti earthquake relief versus the U.N. or any other
>> government as an example.
>
> I tend to think the same way. Americans can be very generous and
> caring, it's their government and corporate greed that tends to cause
> the problems. And ultimately who's responsible for the government?
The thing is that many elections in the USA are about as much of a farce
as they were in the Soviet Union. The methods are far superior in hiding
that fact however. We get non-choices and the public is mostly stupid
(by design of the government schools). Obama was elected because he
promised change. Those of us who knew he offered no change at
all were laughed at but the past year has proven us correct. The same
interests fund the choices that are presented to people. Other choices
are immediately marginalized by the US media such that real change is
highly unlikely.
I kept a Ron Paul 2008 pin should I travel outside the USA :)
> If one looks at the US as a whole it could be compared to Al Capone. A
> gangster who caused all sorts of death and misery but since he opened
> soup kitchens some think he's a hero, I bet those inside his "gang"
> looked up to him. Those outside his circle, how many thought he was
> despicable?
Pretty much that's how it works both internally and extrernally. There's
a saying, 'Government breaks your leg and then hands you a crutch and
then goes: without government you couldn't walk'.
> Does what Americans do individually compensate for the war and
> violence caused by the US government?
You neglect the damage those same forces do to Americans. There's a
reason regions of the nation look like 3rd world countries... or worse
in the case of Detroit.
Brent
The US media doesn't tell people that Saddam was trained in Egypt by the
CIA. It doesn't tell people that the US used him to wage war against
Iran. Operation Ajax is not in history classes in government schools,
nor is the brutality of Shah whom the US federal and british governments
restored to power.
Short attention spans and memories mean people don't even remember the
foreign policies and interventions of the 1980s while people in other
countries still remember what the US government did them in the 1950s.
Non-intervention is usually called 'isolationism' by the media.
Isolationism's example is North Korea.
Any american who bothers to learn this stuff on his own and mentions
it is called a kook and a liar. Not to mention unamerican and often
asked to leave the country because he must 'hate america'.
Zeke
Do you expect the American Government to be able to learn from history?
Surely you must be joking.
The Persians did it, the Romans did it, the French did it, the Germans did
it.... and so it goes. If the US weren't doing it the Chinese or Russians
probably would be. I guess it's just the Americans turn in the giant wheel
of history. It doesn't make it right, but what are you going to do about
it?
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4811 (20100127) __________
Brent
>
> "Brent" <tetraethylle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:hjpr4c$hio$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> On 2010-01-27, Zeke <ne...@news.news> wrote:
>>>
>>> "John Van Ostrand" <john.van...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:9682bfb8-e243-4ed1...@g1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Jan 27, 7:05 am, "Zeke" <n...@news.news> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just like the Europeans did in their colonial days? Or worse during the
>>>> crusades?
>>>
>>> You are making my point for me ;) The US is acting in other countries
>>> just like the crusades and colonial Europe did in the past. The
>>> difference is that the US is the most active at it today.
>>>
>>> *******************************************************
>>>
>>> So what exactly is wrong with that? If the Americans aren't doing it
>>> some
>>> other country would be.
>>
>> Most other countries learned why it's stupid the hard way. Broken
>> economies, massive debt, endless war....
>>
>>
>
> Do you expect the American Government to be able to learn from history?
> Surely you must be joking.
>
> The Persians did it, the Romans did it, the French did it, the Germans did
> it.... and so it goes.
All ended with a busted and broken country.
> If the US weren't doing it the Chinese or Russians
> probably would be. I guess it's just the Americans turn in the giant wheel
> of history. It doesn't make it right, but what are you going to do about
> it?
The russians went broke. Their empire failed already. China shows no
interest in traditional empire. It seems entirely motivated by selling
stuff, building its savings, and basically ending up owning the world.
The way you win the world is through trade, not bombs. Sad thing is the
founders of the US knew this over 200 years ago but people didn't
listen.
John Van Ostrand
>
> Do you expect the American Government to be able to learn from history?
> Surely you must be joking.
Really it's the voters that need to learn and in North America we
don't.
> The Persians did it, the Romans did it, the French did it, the Germans did
> it.... and so it goes. If the US weren't doing it the Chinese or Russians
> probably would be. I guess it's just the Americans turn in the giant wheel
> of history. It doesn't make it right, but what are you going to do about
> it?
Well we know what the people who are being exploited do about it. They
fight for their rights, but are called guerrillas or terrorists in the
US.
What can we in North America do about it? it's the same old thing:
boycott irresponsible companies, push for better foreign relation
policies.
Or..
You can keep going the same direction and allow your government to
increase security and government oversight until nobody has any rights
left.
John Van Ostrand
>
> The russians went broke. Their empire failed already. China shows no
> interest in traditional empire. It seems entirely motivated by selling
> stuff, building its savings, and basically ending up owning the world.
>
> The way you win the world is through trade, not bombs. Sad thing is the
> founders of the US knew this over 200 years ago but people didn't
> listen.
I think the problem in the last 40 years has been unfair trade. Using
bombs is counter-productive and obvious. Using coercion and back-room
deals to push unfair trade onto countries in order to profit is very
subtle. It was often done under the guise of helping a country when it
was just done to help the corporation. And the US government may have
been involved because if there is capitalism there isn't communism.
Brent
Yes, Managed trade... another dual weapon. Used by ruling elite of the
USA and other countries against the populations of both.
Zeke
********************************************************
You guys need to read the book "Confessions Of An Economic Hit Man" by John
Perkins.
John Van Ostrand
> You guys need to read the book "Confessions Of An Economic Hit Man" by John
> Perkins.
What did you think of that book?
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick
It began well before WW2, and every government does it.
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick
> On Jan 27, 11:57 am, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick"
> <Popeye8...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> First, you'd have to take the position that wars that we're involved in
>> are unjust, and that the violence was unwarranted.
>
> Not at all. Looking at it one war at a time is a myopic view. The
> bigger picture is what's important.
Not really.
> Who gave Saddam training and weapons and helped him overthrow Iran's
> leader and finally Iraq's previous leader?
Cite, please.
> Guess which country built
> the chemical factories that produced the weapons of mass destruction.
Cite, please.
> The more the US plays God with foreign countries the more of a mess
> they make, the more wars they end up fighting and the more terrorists
> they create.
Then it's perfectly clear.
Since we've committed all these "crimes" (hurry with those cites, please),
And will never be forgiven,
The only answer is annihilation.
Works for me.
Zeke
*****************************************
I truly hope it's not true. It is disturbing to say the least, but
plausible. I'd like to think my government is not that evil.
John Van Ostrand
<Popeye8...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "John Van Ostrand" <john.van.ostr...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:0ef4a5d3-3bb3-4247...@n4g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Jan 27, 11:57 am, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick"
> > <Popeye8...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> First, you'd have to take the position that wars that we're involved in
> >> are unjust, and that the violence was unwarranted.
>
> > Not at all. Looking at it one war at a time is a myopic view. The
> > bigger picture is what's important.
>
> Not really.
>
> > Who gave Saddam training and weapons and helped him overthrow Iran's
> > leader and finally Iraq's previous leader?
>
> Cite, please.
Iraq US Involvement:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_%E2%80%93_United_States_relations
Saddam Hussien - US involvement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein_%E2%80%93_United_States_relations
CIA activities in Iraq
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Iraq
> > Guess which country built
> > the chemical factories that produced the weapons of mass destruction.
>
> Cite, please.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_%E2%80%93_United_States_relations#U.S._government_authorized_the_sale_of_dual_use_chemicals_and_biological_material_to_Iraq
http://www.thememoryhole.org/corp/iraq-suppliers.htm
> > The more the US plays God with foreign countries the more of a mess
> > they make, the more wars they end up fighting and the more terrorists
> > they create.
>
> Then it's perfectly clear.
>
> Since we've committed all these "crimes" (hurry with those cites, please),
You didn't ask for these but you wrote "crimes":
http://www.albasrah.net/warcrimes.htm
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/usa
http://deoxy.org/wc/warcrime.htm
> And will never be forgiven,
>
> The only answer is annihilation.
>
> Works for me.
What is scary is that I think you mean the annihilation of countries
outside the US.
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick
> On Jan 27, 8:34 pm, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick"
> <Popeye8...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "John Van Ostrand" <john.van.ostr...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:0ef4a5d3-3bb3-4247...@n4g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Jan 27, 11:57 am, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick"
>> > <Popeye8...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> First, you'd have to take the position that wars that we're involved
>> >> in
>> >> are unjust, and that the violence was unwarranted.
>>
>> > Not at all. Looking at it one war at a time is a myopic view. The
>> > bigger picture is what's important.
>>
>> Not really.
>>
>> > Who gave Saddam training and weapons and helped him overthrow Iran's
>> > leader and finally Iraq's previous leader?
>>
>> Cite, please.
>
> Iraq US Involvement:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_%E2%80%93_United_States_relations
Which cites, allegedly, some degree of support for one Iraqi group over
another, in the face of Soviet interference.
Hardly the "anti-Iraqi" activities you imply.
And this:
"The U.S. has denied that it gave Iraq a "green light" for its September
22, 1980 invasion of Iran. Five months before Iraq's invasion, on April 14,
1980, U.S. National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski signaled the U.S.'s
willingness to work with Iraq: "We see no fundamental incompatibility of
interests between the United States and Iraq... we do not feel that
American-Iraqi relations need to be frozen in antagonisms." According to
Iran's president at the time, Abolhassan Banisadr, Brzezinski met directly
with Saddam Hussein in Jordan two months before the Iraqi assault. Bani-Sadr
wrote, "Brzezinski had assured Saddam Hussein that the United States would
not oppose the separation of Khuzestan [in southwest Iran] from Iran."
Author Kenneth E. Timmerman and former Iranian President Able Hassan
Bani-Sadr separately reported that Brzezinski met with Hussein in July 1980
in Amman, Jordan, to discuss joint efforts to oppose Iran. According to
Hussein biographer Said Abolish however, at the Amman meeting Saddam Hussein
met with three CIA agents, not Brzezinski personally. Former Carter official
Gary Sick denies that Washington directly encouraged Iraq's attack, but
instead let "Saddam assume there was a U.S. green light because there was no
explicit red light."[14]
> Saddam Hussien - US involvement
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein_%E2%80%93_United_States_relations
Article disputed for accuracy, and shows more internal strife.
It was the Batistes that "overthrew Iraq's previous leader", with the
direct support of Egypt.
> CIA activities in Iraq
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Iraq
I'm not sure what this cite is for, but it doesn't seem to support this in
any particular way:
"Who gave Saddam training and weapons and helped him overthrow Iran's
leader and finally Iraq's previous leader?"
>> > Guess which country built
>> > the chemical factories that produced the weapons of mass destruction.
>>
>> Cite, please.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_%E2%80%93_United_States_relations#U.S._government_authorized_the_sale_of_dual_use_chemicals_and_biological_material_to_Iraq
> http://www.thememoryhole.org/corp/iraq-suppliers.htm
Try this one "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_wmd"
France and Germany built the factories.
Everything we provided was dual use- not -everybody- involved (USSR,
Paris, German, Italy, Switzerland, Brazil, U.K., Austria, Singapore, The
Dutch, Egypt, India, Luxembourg, Spain, China, Portragul and Niger) can make
that claim.
But per your example, that's rarely the way it's portrayed.
And it makes your statement "Guess which country built the chemical
factories that produced the weapons of mass destruction." particularly
ridiculous.
>> > The more the US plays God with foreign countries the more of a mess
>> > they make, the more wars they end up fighting and the more terrorists
>> > they create.
>>
>> Then it's perfectly clear.
>>
>> Since we've committed all these "crimes" (hurry with those cites,
>> please),
>
> You didn't ask for these but you wrote "crimes":
> http://www.albasrah.net/warcrimes.htm
> http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/usa
> http://deoxy.org/wc/warcrime.htm
Mostly liberal hysterics.
War is war.
>> And will never be forgiven,
>>
>> The only answer is annihilation.
>>
>> Works for me.
>
> What is scary is that I think you mean the annihilation of countries
> outside the US.
Absolutely.
I'm a "do unto others" guy.
I'll stick to my original point:
They hate us for our religious freedom and lifestyle.
Sorry if it's hard to keep a straight face around all you "Blame America
for everything" guys:
"Libya's Moammar Khadafy calls for jihad against Switzerland over mosque
minaret ban"
We've had a lot of experience with it, especially from liberal Canadians.
Scott
news:PrSdnY3xvNqRxQbW...@supernews.com...
> "John Van Ostrand" <john.van...@gmail.com> wrote in message
<chainsaw>
I am very appreciative of the time and effort you spend spanking the
bitches, because there is little more ugly than a hypocrite liberal sperm
bucket liar.
This clown has been in the Bozo bin since his first AA post.
Maybe next he'll quote Ariana or Koz as a "source".
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick
"Scott" <nu...@nope.com> wrote in message
news:J4OdncKaOsCSKAbW...@supernews.com...
He's not a bad guy.
He just doesn't understand that we've heard it all before.
Scott
> He's not a bad guy.
>
> He just doesn't understand that we've heard it all before.
And that it is still stale and wrong.
It's kinda like the metalflake vinyl and chrome furniture in a Bangkok
whorehouse...
Looks like shit, is old shit, but hey, you get to loose the hounds for a
couple bucks. Corral the guppies. Scatter the pidgeons.
Usually, someone else that loves you drops the cake.