Gear Question APEKS ATX 200 vs AT 100 ( sort of long)
Bennet Goff
I'm getting ready to purchase my reg/computer/bcd and was hoping to get some
feedback from anyone using some of the gear I am looking at.
I live and dive in San Diego, so most of my diving is in cold (relatively)
water, with depths to 130 on some wrecks. I dive every weekend and will be
completing my Divemaster course in August, so I expect to be wet fairly
frequently. I don't do any Tech stuff now, but who knows what the future
will bring.
A salesperson recommended by an instructor wants to put me into an Apeks ATX
200 w/ AT 40 Octo, SUUNTO Cobra, and Seaquest Blackdiamond BCD. I visited
another shop today, and their rep thinks I should go with the Seaquest
Raider, but then in the next breath tells me that the ATX 200 may be too
much regulator and I should look at something with less performance and less
price, maybe even Aqualung. I have looked over the Aqualung and Seaquest
sites, and was wondering how big the difference is. Or if I stayed with
Apeks is the only true difference between the 100 and 200 the weight and
styling of the second stage? I don't want to spend money just for the sake
of having the absolute top of the line, but also don't want to sacrifice
performance on the important stuff. Any thoughts on whether or not this
gear is appropriate to my diving habits would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Bennet
Rob Turner
"Bennet Goff" <bg...@san.rr.com> schreef in bericht
news:a5gM8.52676$R53.19...@twister.socal.rr.com...
> Hi Folks,
> I'm getting ready to purchase my reg/computer/bcd and was hoping to get some
> feedback from anyone using some of the gear I am looking at.
> I live and dive in San Diego, so most of my diving is in cold (relatively)
> water, with depths to 130 on some wrecks. I dive every weekend and will be
> completing my Divemaster course in August, so I expect to be wet fairly
> frequently. I don't do any Tech stuff now, but who knows what the future
> will bring.
> A salesperson recommended by an instructor wants to put me into an Apeks ATX
> 200 w/ AT 40 Octo, SUUNTO Cobra, and Seaquest Blackdiamond BCD.
My opinion.
Apeks thumbs up but expensive
Suunto Cobra - better off with Viper. Air integration isn't worth what you pay
for it.
Blackdiamond - better off with Pro QD or a BP/Wing depending on whether you dive
doubles or not. The Blackdiamond tries to be all things to everyone and in so
doing fails to be anything to anyone. (exaggerated, of course)
> I visited
> another shop today, and their rep thinks I should go with the Seaquest
> Raider,
I'd still look at the QD.
>but then in the next breath tells me that the ATX 200 may be too
> much regulator and I should look at something with less performance and less
> price, maybe even Aqualung.
I'd argue that being techincally virtually identical to the Apeks, the Aqualung
Legend is an excellent choice. I've also used the (inexpensive and very simple)
AL Triton on a regular basis and I've found this reg to be a surprisingly good
performer too. My normal reg is a Sherwood Maximus and it also gets a thumbs
up. All of these regs are cheaper than the Apeks and all of them are good
performers.
> I have looked over the Aqualung and Seaquest
> sites, and was wondering how big the difference is.
I'd say that when it comes to regs, the thing that makes the biggest single
difference is having an external resistance adjuster.
> Or if I stayed with
> Apeks is the only true difference between the 100 and 200 the weight and
> styling of the second stage?
I don't think so. I think that the 200 1st is overbalanced with a balanced 2nd
and the 100 is a balanced 1st (2nd?). (please correct me if I'm wrong). That
*could* make a slight difference when very deep. (we're talking tech deep)
Cheers,
R..
Bennet Goff
"> I don't think so. I think that the 200 1st is overbalanced with a
balanced 2nd
> and the 100 is a balanced 1st (2nd?). (please correct me if I'm wrong).
That
> *could* make a slight difference when very deep. (we're talking tech
deep)
The 100 first stage is over balanced as well. Thanks for the information.
Bennet
Alan Street
<bg...@san.rr.com> wrote:
ý Hi Folks,
ý I'm getting ready to purchase my reg/computer/bcd and was hoping to get some
ý feedback from anyone using some of the gear I am looking at.
ý I live and dive in San Diego, so most of my diving is in cold (relatively)
ý water, with depths to 130 on some wrecks. I dive every weekend and will be
ý completing my Divemaster course in August, so I expect to be wet fairly
ý frequently. I don't do any Tech stuff now, but who knows what the future
ý will bring.
ý A salesperson recommended by an instructor wants to put me into an Apeks ATX
ý 200 w/ AT 40 Octo, SUUNTO Cobra, and Seaquest Blackdiamond BCD. I visited
ý another shop today, and their rep thinks I should go with the Seaquest
ý Raider, but then in the next breath tells me that the ATX 200 may be too
ý much regulator and I should look at something with less performance and less
ý price, maybe even Aqualung. I have looked over the Aqualung and Seaquest
ý sites, and was wondering how big the difference is. Or if I stayed with
ý Apeks is the only true difference between the 100 and 200 the weight and
ý styling of the second stage? I don't want to spend money just for the sake
ý of having the absolute top of the line, but also don't want to sacrifice
ý performance on the important stuff. Any thoughts on whether or not this
ý gear is appropriate to my diving habits would be appreciated.
ý
ý Thanks in advance,
ý Bennet
ý
ý
Bennet,
"Too much regulator?" What is that supposed to mean?
You're pretty much right about the difference between the ATX and TX
lines. The ATX 200 is a smaller second stage, which is a little more
comfortable. The first stages of the TX 100 and ATX 200 are essentially
identical, both are balanced diaphragm, enviromentally sealed designs
with 4 LP ports (one larger) and 2 HP ports. The ATX is black and the
TX 100 is natural metal.
You might want to look at the TX 50 as well. It has the DS-4 first
stage, which is a little smaller than the TX 100 1st, and the second
stages are identical except for the covers. It's usually about $50 less
than the TX 100.
I don't know about the Blackdiamond. If you're honestly looking for a
"technical" rig (whatever the hell that is), you'd be better off buying
a backplate and wings. Don't expect any place in SD to agree with this
however. OE played with carrying Halcyon for a while, but I think they
dropped that idea. AquaTech and Rick's are OMS dealers and will try to
sell you an IQPack (although both also sell you to the OMS "harness" if
you ask). Pretty much every other shop will try to sell you what they
carry, which are conventional BCs. If you're looking for a conventional
jacket style BC, and don't ever plan to use doubles, you might want to
look at something simpler like the Seaquest Balance. Zeagle also makes
very nice BCs.
I personally don't like air integrated computers. I don't rely on a
computer to tell me how long my gas will last, and I personally prefer
a simple SPG. If you've really got your heart set on an air integrated
computer, however, you might want to look at the Vytec and get the
wireless transmitter. That way, if you change your mind later, you've
still got a nice multi-gas wrist mounted computer that can also work as
a bottom timer. The only downside is the cost, and Suunto's somewhat
conservative algorithms.
hth
Alan
Nancyscuba
I had an Apex TX100 for a year or so. A great regulator.
I now use the Apex ATX 200. It is far superior in terms of noticeably less
breathing resistance on both the inhalation and exhalation. The ease of
breathing adjustment dial is machined more precisely and therefore it turns
easier (not a breathing performance consideration),
For the amount of diving you are doing, and for what you have planned, you want
equipment that will deliver high performance.
The Apex ATX 200 is my recommendation.
And the Cobra.
Or maybe get the new Vytec.
Air integration prevents out of air situations. Its also a cool way to trak
your breathing rate.
For your future tec diving, you will need to do some air calculations. And
air integrated makes that easier and more accurate.
The Raider seems like a "gee whiz" BC. The Patriot is a lighter weight version
of it with a more reasonable price.
Check out also the Sherwood Freedom.
And you can't have a regulator that is "too much" for you. With every breath
you take, you will either be glad of your choice, or curse your decision.
And based on the Legend LX Supreme that I tested, the Apex ATX 200 breathes
easier.
Good luck.
Nancy Boucha
Scuba Systems
Skokie, IL 60076
Rich Lockyer
wrote:
>dropped that idea. AquaTech and Rick's are OMS dealers and will try to
>sell you an IQPack (although both also sell you to the OMS "harness" if
>you ask).
Rick's recently started carrying the new (local) deep blue or deep sea
or whatever it is.
Reminds me too much of an OMS wing on a Transpac.
--- Rich
http://richlockyer.tripod.com/
Ashley Kramer
group owns at least 2, some own 5. We have zero problems.
The 200 series has some new system that increases the IP with depth...the
100 doesn't.
The 100 works all the time, under all conditions.....who knows about this
new 200 series?
You want to be a beta tester.....go for it.
Ashley
"Bennet Goff" <bg...@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:JapM8.53043$R53.19...@twister.socal.rr.com...
Fiona Watson
Bennet Goff wrote in message ...
Don't know much about the new 200, but I've got several TX40/50s one of
which is 9 years old now and still works properly. Cheap and easy to
maintain, all of mine have been fairly heavily abused over the years. If you
look round on most of the 'technical' boats its tx40/50s you see most of.
Don't go for an air-integrated computer, they don't add anything, simply
complicate things, unless you intend staying within no-stop recreational
depths. The Suunto vyper will do everything you need it to, plus work in
gauge mode if you do decide to venture deeper/longer - and cost considerably
less.
Fiona Watson
Nancyscuba wrote in message <20020608205947...@mb-fy.aol.com>...
>Air integration prevents out of air situations.
any meaningful readings.
Its also a cool way to trak
>your breathing rate.
>
For a few dives yes, its entertaining to look at the down load, and yes you
can learn where you're rate goes up and down, however its more just
entertainment. They add in an additional failure point
> For your future tec diving, you will need to do some air calculations.
And
>air integrated makes that easier and more accurate.
Air integrated computers are completely useless particularly for tec diving,
all you want for a 'tech' dive is a couple of d-timers and a slate. You
can't translate your 'mooching around a warm shallow reef in a wetsuit'
breathing rate to 'twinset and stage(s) in a tide' breathing rate - or how
much gas you use at stops
Fi
( grumpy cos we got blown out yesterday and today we're going to have to
swap from the N Sea to Atlantic coasts)
David Scarlett
news:20020608205947...@mb-fy.aol.com:
> Air integration prevents out of air situations.
Yes. And AOL is a good Internet Service Provider. <g>
--
David Scarlett
dscarlett [AT] optushome [DOT] com [DOT] au
"Only a fool enters a fool's argument."
David Scarlett
news:3d030084$0$29613$4c56...@master.news.zetnet.net:
> Don't go for an air-integrated computer, they don't add anything,
> simply complicate things, unless you intend staying within no-stop
> recreational depths. The Suunto vyper will do everything you need
> it to, plus work in gauge mode if you do decide to venture
> deeper/longer - and cost considerably less.
I'll go one step further and say what about just a good bottom timer?
Like the Suunto D3 or Mares Apneist......
nos...@all.please.net
> "Fiona Watson" <fiona....@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in
> news:3d030084$0$29613$4c56...@master.news.zetnet.net:
>
> > Don't go for an air-integrated computer, they don't add anything,
> > simply complicate things, unless you intend staying within no-stop
> > recreational depths. The Suunto vyper will do everything you need
> > it to, plus work in gauge mode if you do decide to venture
> > deeper/longer - and cost considerably less.
>
> I'll go one step further and say what about just a good bottom timer?
> Like the Suunto D3 or Mares Apneist......
>
Some of us dive for fun instead of competition.
Fiona Watson
nos...@all.please.net wrote in message ...
>
>Some of us dive for fun instead of competition.
>
Ehh???? don't think we ever said we didn't
F
Rob Turner
> Air integration prevents out of air situations. Its also a cool way to trak
> your breathing rate.
I beg to differ. Watching your gas supply prevents OOA situations. Where that
number is displayed is completely irrelevant. And while it's true that an AI
computer will give you an alarm when your air is low, I'd suggest that relying
on your computer to tell you when your air is low instead of checking your
gauges would make one a major stroke.
> For your future tec diving, you will need to do some air calculations. And
> air integrated makes that easier and more accurate.
Not true. Gas planning gets done before you get in the water. The remaining
bottom time calculation is a curiosity that has no bearing on dive planning and
very little, if any relevance to actual diving. Tracking your run
times/pressures can be done with a bottom timer and an SPG with as much ease and
accuracy as any one would need.
<snip>
> And you can't have a regulator that is "too much" for you. With every breath
> you take, you will either be glad of your choice, or curse your decision.
I'd tend to agree with that.
> And based on the Legend LX Supreme that I tested, the Apex ATX 200 breathes
> easier.
This is interesting. Can you say more about that?
<snip>
R..
Rich Lockyer
<ash...@ihugbusiness.co.nz> wrote:
>The 200 series has some new system that increases the IP with depth...the
>100 doesn't.
Why would one want that?
Every reg increases the IP with depth... by 14.7 psi for every 33
feet.
Any more of an increase that that is not a good thing.
--- Rich
http://richlockyer.tripod.com/
Bennet Goff
Since you were nice enough to respond, and I am so excited about the
purchase, I thought I would let you know what I picked up.
Apeks Tx-100
Apeks ATX-40 Octo
Scubapro mini SPG
SUUNTO Vyyper
Seaquest Pro QD+
Hendersen Gold Core 7/5 Full suit
Hendersen Gold Core Hood
I decided on the 100 over the 200 based on the quirks the 200 is having with
freeflow. I also picked the the Pro QD+, thinking that for now I will save
a little in the BCD department and later if I get bit by the Tec bug, kit up
in a Halcyon or OMS. Thanks again for the advice. I have to go get wet
now.
Bennet
S_chewba
"Rob Turner" <robert.tu...@cgey.nl> skrev i melding
news:ae0clg$2sqe5$1...@ID-134232.news.dfncis.de...
> <snip>
> > Air integration prevents out of air situations. Its also a cool way to
trak
> > your breathing rate.
>
> I beg to differ. Watching your gas supply prevents OOA situations.
J-valves worked for decades as well.
Most people seam to think that SPG's are an even better idea.
Some people seam to belive that an additional safety feature such as an
audiable alarm decrease safety. Have no clue why they are under that
impression.
> Where that
> number is displayed is completely irrelevant. And while it's true that an
AI
> computer will give you an alarm when your air is low, I'd suggest that
relying
> on your computer to tell you when your air is low instead of checking your
> gauges would make one a major stroke.
Why object to an additional safety feature ?
> <snip>
> > And you can't have a regulator that is "too much" for you. With every
breath
> > you take, you will either be glad of your choice, or curse your
decision.
>
> I'd tend to agree with that.
Imagine the quality and performance of todays budget regulators compared to
the top of the line only a few years back.
There are plenty of "good buys" in the budget range. Such as eg Aqualung
regs which have been mentioned in this thread.
S_chewba
S_chewba
"Fiona Watson" <fiona....@zetnet.co.uk> skrev i melding
news:3d03028d$0$29613$4c56...@master.news.zetnet.net...
>
> Nancyscuba wrote in message
<20020608205947...@mb-fy.aol.com>...
> >Air integration prevents out of air situations.
> No it doesn't, no air-intergrated computer I've ever seen realistically
gave
> any meaningful readings.
Take a closer look :-)
> Its also a cool way to trak
> >your breathing rate.
> >
> For a few dives yes, its entertaining to look at the down load, and yes
you
> can learn where you're rate goes up and down, however its more just
> entertainment. They add in an additional failure point
You mean the lack of HP hose with the svivel/turret o-ring that are one of
the most frequent points of leakage ?
> Air integrated computers are completely useless particularly for tec
diving,
> all you want for a 'tech' dive is a couple of d-timers and a slate.
I agree with you on this point, but I belive there's room for more
objectivity on the use of digital SPG's and AI's than you often see in this
ng.
S_chewba
Rich Lockyer
wrote:
That gear should serve you well for a long time.
--- Rich
http://richlockyer.tripod.com/
Rob Turner
> in a Halcyon or OMS. Thanks again for the advice. I have to go get wet
> now.
>
> Bennet
Have fun.
R..
Rob Turner
>
> Why object to an additional safety feature ?
I probably didn't make myself clear. I don't object to the alarm in and of
itself (although it may have sounded like it) I objected to the suggestion that
the alarm could *prevent* OOA and that an AI computer somehow relieves the diver
from the need to check his/her gauges. That's how I read Nancy's post; it may
not be what she meant or how you read it.
To restate the point more succinctly, I don't think that an alarm, SPG, AI
computer or whatever can *prevent* OOA. Preventing OOA is not a matter of
technology but a matter of developing good habits.
Hope that clarifies.
R..
<snip>
Captain Spaulding
spend some time figuring out your trim with it (the trim pockets by the
shoulders are an essetial feature, IMO) and you'll find that with a single
tank, you can get the same trim that you would with a BP. That's a very
nice BC.
Bennet Goff (bg...@san.rr.com) wrote:
: Thanks to all for your advice. I made the plunge today and bought my gear.
:
:
:
--
Vandit Kalia
"How do your divers see the fish? Do you have a glass-bottomed boat?" -
Director of Tourism, Andaman and Nicobar Islands
AndyH
or maybe the US Divers Maverick. I would be interested in knowing how you
like it. For that matter, anyone diving with either BC, I would like their
opinions.
"Rob Turner" <robert.tu...@cgey.nl> wrote in message
news:ae489b$3njna$2...@ID-134232.news.dfncis.de...
Rich Lockyer
wrote:
>Let me know how you like the BC. I have been thinking about getting that BC
>or maybe the US Divers Maverick. I would be interested in knowing how you
>like it. For that matter, anyone diving with either BC, I would like their
>opinions.
I've got the Maverick (with Airsource).
As jacket BCs go, it's nice. It feels good on the surface, has plenty
of buoyancy, and can carry 30 pounds if needed. I used mine for about
a year before going to a BP/Wing.
Size large.... make offer. I have the original inflator hose as well
if you don't want the Airsource.
The left pocket flap has been punched to allow mounting the Wenoka
Squeeze-knife.
Aw hell... my blade is so shot I'll include it... I'm not good at
sharpening blades.
--- Rich
http://richlockyer.tripod.com/
Rob Turner
R..
"AndyH" <anche...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:hfwN8.24624$rX.43...@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
Bennet Goff
Bennet
"Rob Turner" <robert.tu...@cgey.nl> wrote in message
news:ae6q6a$4bb18$1...@ID-134232.news.dfncis.de...
Rob Turner
> Every reg increases the IP with depth... by 14.7 psi for every 33
> feet.
There are a couple of overbalanced designs on the market now. The Apeks TX200
and the Aqualung Legend are two examples. The IP of the 1st stage increases by
slightly more than the ambient pressure as you go deeper. The second is
pressure balanced too to avoid free flowing, and the theory is that this reduces
breathing resistance with depth. (if it really works is another question). I
suspect that this has essentially the same effect as using the external
resistance adjuster but then "automatic" in stead of "standard".
R..