accidents, incidents and deaths underwater
sweir
incidents last year. And while the jump might seem alarming, it is
probably more a case of how much easier it is to get information over
the web than ever before rather than an increase in accidents/death.
So what did I learn this year? Here are some points:
+ No everyone died in the accidents and not all accident reports
involved just one diver (there were multiple deaths this year).
+ I have been doing this for over 12 years and at one time helped the
Ontario Underwater Council with their fatality reports. What did I
learn?
+ More and more older divers 50+ are dying while diving (or upon
exiting the water). Heart attacks seem to be more a death cause than
traditional dive death reasons (bubbles, lungs etc) within this age
group
+ Technical divers still seem to be dying because of equipment
problems (some self-caused)
Increase in shallow water blackout deaths for skin divers
+ Media still have problems understand the technology of the sport
when reporting on accidents
+ Way too much coverage of husbands killing wives underwater
A year ago, while harvesting death and accident information from
English language news sources and social media sites, I actually came
across a death notice for someone who I knew. Disturbing. Not just
because of the manner in which she died, but, in the calous and
inaccurate coverage of the incident. I want to write about it in
context with this year's stats. Keep putting it off, but, if I do
write it and post on my website I will let everyone know.
sweir
> This year I noted 505 scuba and snorkelling incidents, up from 387
> incidents last year. And while the jump might seem alarming, it is
> probably more a case of how much easier it is to get information over
> the web than ever before rather than an increase in accidents/death.
Made a few typos ... now here it is in English
This year I noted 505 scuba and snorkelling incidents, up from 387
incidents last year. And while the jump might seem alarming, it is
probably more a case of how much easier it is to get information over
the web than ever before rather than an increase in accidents/death.
No everyone died in the accidents and not all accident reports
involved just one diver (there were multiple deaths this year). FYI I
have been doing this for over 12 years and at one time helped the
Ontario Underwater Council with their fatality reports. What did I
learn?
+ More and more older divers 50+ are dying while diving (or upon
exiting the water). Heart attacks seem to be the big killer rather
than traditional dive death reasons (bent, lungs etc) within this age
group
+ Technical divers still seem to be dying because of equipment
problems (some self-caused)
+ Increase in shallow water blackout deaths for skin divers
+ Media still have problems understand the technology of the sport
when reporting on accidents
+ Way too much coverage of husbands killing wives underwater
A year ago, while harvesting death and accident information from
English language news sources and social media sites, I actually came
across a death notice for someone who I knew. Disturbing. Not just
because of the manner in which she died, but, in the calous and
inaccurate coverage of the incident. I want to write about it in
context with this year's stats. From my point of view older divers
are dying for health reasons and it is something that should be
addressed by training industry -- my older divers, myself included,
need to have extensive scuba medical check-ups and adjust our depth
and bottom times if we continue to be certified. Keep putting it off,
Dan Bracuk
<ste...@stephenweir.com> wrote:
>This year I noted 505 scuba and snorkelling incidents, up from 387
>incidents last year. And while the jump might seem alarming, it is
>probably more a case of how much easier it is to get information over
>the web than ever before rather than an increase in accidents/death.
If you were comparing this year to 10 years ago, maybe. This year to
last year, probably only a little easier.
Dan Bracuk
<ste...@stephenweir.com> wrote:
> From my point of view older divers
>are dying for health reasons and it is something that should be
>addressed by training industry -- my older divers, myself included,
>need to have extensive scuba medical check-ups and adjust our depth
>and bottom times if we continue to be certified. Keep putting it off,
>but, if I do write it and post on my website I will let everyone know.
What do the training industries have to do with already certified
divers?
mike gray
From my point of view older divers
> are dying for health reasons and it is something that should be
> addressed by training industry -- my older divers, myself included,
> need to have extensive scuba medical check-ups and adjust our depth
> and bottom times if we continue to be certified. Keep putting it off,
> but, if I do write it and post on my website I will let everyone know.
Horseshit!
And that's from someone likely older than you, with as much if not more
training, and three heart attacks - one at 85 fsw.
If you really believe that we old farts are gonna sit on the couch while
the world is out diving, yer nuts. If I have the last one while I'm
diving, it's a helluva lot better than the last one while laying in a
puddle of my urine in some fetid nursing home, and a helluva lot less
trouble than the trip to Cat Cay to go see what's at the bottom of that
3,500' wall. (Yeah, the latter requires no recovery efforts but the
paperwork is a bitch for the boat.)
I told my cardiologist to fuck off, I go as deep as I want, and stay til
my gas runs out or my ticker stops.
Popeye will let you know when it happens.
esg
sweir
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 09:09:57 -0800 (PST), sweir
>
YMCA has ended its certification but I think it had the right
approach. You have to keep diving to keep the certification. If you
don't dive for a few years it is time for a recert ... including a
medical.
sweir
That's okay for you to say, but have you ever been on a boat when
someone does have an underwater medical problem? Not fun. Not
suggesting that people quit diving after a certain age, but, medical
check-ups, keeping in physical shape and modifying one's dive plan to
take account of the aging process makes sense to me.
dechucka
"sweir" <ste...@stephenweir.com> wrote in message
news:6b8d6cdc-cf8d-4c49...@s3g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
=====================================
Interesting approach but how did they show you hadn't been diving
mike gray
So we should eliminate all possibility of medical problems to guarantee
that some elite group will be spared the sight of blood?????
Shit happens. Techies screw up their equipment and mix. Newbies drop
their tanks on other people's feet. Wreckers get entangled. Californians
refuse to follow local protocols. Canadians get lost on a No/So reef.
Old folks have heart attacks. That's life on a dive boat.
The likelihood of an underwater medical problem is prolly about the same
as the likelihood of a restaurant medical problem. Have you ever been
eating dinner when someone had a restaurant medical problem? Not fun!
> Not suggesting that people quit diving after a certain age, but, medical
> check-ups, keeping in physical shape and modifying one's dive plan to
> take account of the aging process makes sense to me.
Medical check-ups are meaningless, and have no relevance to diving.
"Keeping in physical shape" is one of those politically correct nonsense
phrases - what does it mean, how is it measured, what physical shape
should a diver be in? And the dive plan is totally dependent on
environment, not age - if ya can't execute the plan, stay out of the
water regardless of age, training, hair color, or religion.
esg
Dan Bracuk
<ste...@stephenweir.com> wrote:
>YMCA has ended its certification but I think it had the right
>approach. You have to keep diving to keep the certification. If you
>don't dive for a few years it is time for a recert ... including a
>medical.
You are mixing issues. Staying current by continuous diving and
changing health as we get older have nothing to do with each other.
-hh
> sweir wrote:
> > mike gray <omg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>sweir wrote:
> >>> From my point of view older divers
> >>>are dying for health reasons and it is something that should be
> >>>addressed by training industry -- my older divers, myself included,
> >>>need to have extensive scuba medical check-ups and adjust our depth
> >>>and bottom times if we continue to be certified. Keep putting it off,
> >>>but, if I do write it and post on my website I will let everyone know.
>
> >>Horseshit!
>
> >>And that's from someone likely older than you, with as much if not more
> >>training, and three heart attacks - one at 85 fsw.
>
> >>If you really believe that we old farts are gonna sit on the couch while
> >
> > That's okay for you to say, but have you ever been on a boat when
> > someone does have an underwater medical problem? Not fun.
>
> So we should eliminate all possibility of medical problems to guarantee
> that some elite group will be spared the sight of blood?????
This is an interesting juxtaposition: the Dive Industry has a
Catch-22 in that they've been successful in getting "lifelong" divers
as part of their customer base, but this invariably results in some
higher risks due to these age-related health concerns. At the same
time, they've seen a decline in new certifications, so they try to
compensate, by (a) holding onto the oldtimers, (b) lower the barriers
to entry into the sport (ie, less stringent training
standards...including to older divers), (c) try to market the sport to
be thrilling, yet as safe as can be.
From this perspective, we have to ask what the motives are of the
various parties. For example, I personally didn't care for the
attitude of the old Ontario Reports of circa a decade ago, because
they tried to attribute a whole heap of badness on the concept of
"Threesome" buddy teams, rather than to recognize that all (ALL!)
buddy protocols are merely a form of risk management, which only works
when combined with adequate diver discipline. Note that I didn't say
"training".
YMMV, but I don't think that the Internet has changed so drastically
between 2008 and 2009 such that we can attribute it as the sole source
of a 25% increase in reported incidents. I don't even think that we
can attribute the Internet as the MAJOR source of such an increase.
> > Not suggesting that people quit diving after a certain age, but, medical
> > check-ups, keeping in physical shape and modifying one's dive plan to
> > take account of the aging process makes sense to me.
>
> Medical check-ups are meaningless, and have no relevance to diving.
The same holds true for routine chores up north: early season
snowstorms invariably cause a rash of deaths due to heart attacks from
older adults out shoveling snow. What are you going to do about
it ... ban SNOW?
> "Keeping in physical shape" is one of those politically correct nonsense
> phrases - what does it mean, how is it measured, what physical shape
> should a diver be in? And the dive plan is totally dependent on
> environment, not age - if ya can't execute the plan, stay out of the
> water regardless of age, training, hair color, or religion.
And better & closer to the point is that it is an utter farce to even
consider recommending such things for the recreational dive public
when our wonderful "self policing" industry hasn't even done this for
its **professional** staffmembers. All they've done there is collect
annual dues and insurance fees.
Similarly, I was at a Dive Op awhile back and I made the mistake of
actually reading their air purity certification test certificate. It
was 15 months old. Again, where are there industry safety standards
which apply to something as basic as this, and why was this operator
not shut down? "FIVE STAR" my ass!
The bottom line is that the Dive Industry could indeed benefit from a
review of its safety policies. However, with their current "BLAME THE
VICTIM" Chicken-Little approach to their problems, they entirely
deserve the financial drubbing that they're getting in this economy,
as well as how the younger generation isn't really interested.
...and its not like the Industry hasn't received any clues about how
messed up they are:
<http://unifieddiveindustry.com/index.php>
-hh
Dennis (Icarus)
"-hh" <recscub...@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
news:f85ae846-7d65-40b8...@k23g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> mike gray <omg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
<snip>
>> Medical check-ups are meaningless, and have no relevance to diving.
>
> The same holds true for routine chores up north: early season
> snowstorms invariably cause a rash of deaths due to heart attacks from
> older adults out shoveling snow. What are you going to do about
> it ... ban SNOW?
Global warming will take care of the problems with snow.
:-)
<snip>
Dennis
mike gray
>
> The same holds true for routine chores up north: early season
> snowstorms invariably cause a rash of deaths due to heart attacks from
> older adults out shoveling snow. What are you going to do about
> it ... ban SNOW?
Yessirree bob! That's why I moved out of Maine!
But they're gonna ban shovels, the instrument of death.
And if none of that works, folks will be required to trudge through
hip-deep snow.
Every time someone croaks, some sniveling misguided fool wants to ban
something. What a helluva way to die, cringing in fear under the bed!
(snip)
I like yer implication that dive "professionals" ought to be required to
wrestle a polar bear annually.
But here's his real question: if scuba is a such a macho sport, how come
the boat is full of old farts?
esg
mike gray
Already has in SoFla.
Greg Mossman
> > That's okay for you to say, but have you ever been on a boat when
> > someone does have an underwater medical problem? Not fun.
>
> So we should eliminate all possibility of medical problems to guarantee
> that some elite group will be spared the sight of blood?????
>
> Shit happens. Techies screw up their equipment and mix. Newbies drop
> their tanks on other people's feet. Wreckers get entangled. Californians
> refuse to follow local protocols. Canadians get lost on a No/So reef.
> Old folks have heart attacks. That's life on a dive boat.
>
> The likelihood of an underwater medical problem is prolly about the same
> as the likelihood of a restaurant medical problem. Have you ever been
> eating dinner when someone had a restaurant medical problem? Not fun!
Heh, I've never been eating dinner when someone had a restaurant
medical problem but I can only imagine it would add to the
entertainment. On a dive boat, however, it means more than a delayed
dessert, it might mean prematurely ending a trip which people shelled
out big bucks for. I've eaten in countless restaurants, yet I count
my dives, each one of them. I have been on boats when someone had a
medical underwater problem, I have been on shore dives when someone
had a medical underwater problem. I have never even witnessed a
restaurant medical issue that I knew of after thousands of restaurant
visits, but I've definitely experienced and witnessed medical issues
in barely 600 dives.
Still, that doesn't mean that more checkups and stricted protocols are
the issue, rather I think your analogy just sucks. The shore diving
medical issues only affected my trip, no one else's, and were likely
entertaining if anything to the rest of the world. One death, one
broken ankle, life goes on. The death, likely heart-related, could
not have been predicted by a medical checkup (according to DAN), and
the broken ankle definitely wouldn't have been prevented by checkups
or extra training.
The boat diving issues I've experienced, as sweir notes, could have
been more problematic to innocent bystanders, but at least in my
limited experience, they were hardly preventable by either training or
medical counseling. A moray eel bite caused our boat to divert from
Lanai back to Maui, causing the rest of the divers aboard to suffer a
prolonged surface interval and a relocated second dive but hopefully
they got something back in return for the entertainment value of
seeing lots of blood and gore (actually the cap'n had cleaned up the
mess pretty good by the time the other divers got back, but they at
least learned a very valuable first "hand" lesson not to get their
fingers near the vicious Hawaiian morays). The other boat incident
didn't end up affecting the other divers at all, but the affected
diver (me) did have a lot of convincing to do toward a boatful of
other divers that my chancing further diving wouldn't end up in
canceling their trip and turning our boat toward the nearest chamber
in Panama, 28 hours away. Fortunately the incident, my incident, was
merely hyperventilation-caused, and not the feared DCS which symptoms
it mimicked. Furthermore, there's no way a medical exam would have
prevented it since it was induced by the same alternobaric vertigo
that I've already known about for years and was already actively self-
treating with decongestants and anti-histamines.
Yes, it would have sucked for everyone else had there been an actual
emergency and we had to abort the trip to return before the week of
diving was up, but how often does that really happen even nowadays
with so many old farts diving, especially on some week-long liveaboard
where it really matters if the trip gets canceled? I don't hear about
it occurring too regularly and I'm sure Undercurrent or someone else
would report it if it were. If someone kicks it during a dive in the
Keys, say, and the rest of the divers are shorted one entire dive and
half a day and maybe $40 worth, boo fucking hoo, but it's not really
something to fret about and certainly nothing that would merit
mandating exams like the FAA does with private pilots who might crash
onto my house if they have a heart attack doing their preferred
activity. In diving, the heart attackee only kills himself and
relatively barely inconveniences anyone else. Meanwhile, lots of
older heart-attack-prone folks are getting tremendous value out of
diving and that in turn benefits society - guys like ESG are keeping
active pursuing a physically-demanding hobby rather than getting
decrepit watching Seahunt reruns in a rest home on the taxpayer's
dollar and when he goes, and when I go, it will be quick and painless
and not cost the taxpayers one cent unless they make the unwise
decision to recover the worm-eaten corpse from 3,500 feet.
> > Not suggesting that people quit diving after a certain age, but, medical
> > check-ups, keeping in physical shape and modifying one's dive plan to
> > take account of the aging process makes sense to me.
>
> Medical check-ups are meaningless, and have no relevance to diving.
> "Keeping in physical shape" is one of those politically correct nonsense
> phrases - what does it mean, how is it measured, what physical shape
> should a diver be in? And the dive plan is totally dependent on
> environment, not age - if ya can't execute the plan, stay out of the
> water regardless of age, training, hair color, or religion.
These Florida Keys dives, say, where the newbies jump off the boat
into 25' of water and stand on the reef looking alternately at the
fish and their dragging gauges, are far less physically demanding than
dancing all night in a Miami disco. When a tourist kicks it in a bar
or nightclub, that's probably a hassle too. Heck, I imagine it must
suck for golfers to be on the same golf course as a heart attack
victim since you then have to play around that hole or wait until the
EMS is through. If anything, dive tourists tend to be just a bit more
athletic and healthy-looking than your average tourist if only because
they're the subgroup that pursues an active recreation rather than
just sitting on the beach soaking up UV rays, sitting in a bar soaking
up tequila, or even sitting in a golf cart playing with their little
white balls.
Greg Mossman
> -hh wrote:
>
> > The same holds true for routine chores up north: early season
> > snowstorms invariably cause a rash of deaths due to heart attacks from
> > older adults out shoveling snow. What are you going to do about
> > it ... ban SNOW?
>
> Yessirree bob! That's why I moved out of Maine!
>
> But they're gonna ban shovels, the instrument of death.
Ban conga lines and you'll be heart-attack free? I'll smoke to that!
(while that tobaccy shit is still legal, that is)
-hh
> [long silly rant]
> If anything, dive tourists tend to be just a bit more
> athletic and healthy-looking than your average tourist if only because
> they're the subgroup that pursues an active recreation rather than
> just sitting on the beach soaking up UV rays, sitting in a bar soaking
> up tequila, or even sitting in a golf cart playing with their little
> white balls.
It depends on what you call "average", since other tourists are out
hiking, walking, surfing, museums, etc - - a holiday isn't restricted
to laying around on a beach. And with a purposefully broad brush,
the diver stereotype doesn't really involve that much exercise - - a
buffet breakfast, then fall off of a boat in the morning for an hour
floating, then back to shore and the lunch chow line for another
buffet, followed by the afternoon sucking down more beers at the bar,
then more drinks at happy hour, then a buffet dinner, and then a few
nightcaps. Oh yes...VERY healthy, comparatively speaking.
-hh
Greg Mossman
Please tell me you're not going to dissect the word average. Didn't
we already suffer another pedant who liked to play that game? I said
average and I meant average.
Compared to the thousands and thousands pouring off cruise ships where
"exercise" is a walk around the deck with a cocktail, yes. That's the
concept of average. Take 'em all together and you'll find more lazy
beer swilling tourists than tourists climbing mountains or trekking
through the jungle. When I made reference to "the subgroup that
pursues an active recreation", the hikers and surfers would obviously
be included in this group as well. So would be people who run
marathons for fun on vacation. Obviously. But there aren't as many
of those types compared to the non-active tourists which is why I used
the word average.
You apparently do nothing but "white glove" diving, but many divers I
know actually have to occasionally schelp their own gear, perhaps kick
against current for half a dive, maybe even walk quite a ways with
tank and weight on back and 40 lbs of camera stuff in the arms, in
other words doing stuff a lot more active than the "average" tourist,
the median tourist or even the mean tourist. Those are the divers I
was referring to, sorry if my broad brush accidentally included you if
you didn't want to be included.
-hh
> -hh <recscuba_goo...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
> > Greg Mossman <moss...@qnet.com> wrote:
> > > [long silly rant]
> > > If anything, dive tourists tend to be just a bit more
> > > athletic and healthy-looking than your average tourist if only because
> > > they're the subgroup that pursues an active recreation rather than
> > > just sitting on the beach soaking up UV rays, sitting in a bar soaking
> > > up tequila, or even sitting in a golf cart playing with their little
> > > white balls.
>
> > It depends on what you call "average", since other tourists are out
> > hiking, walking, surfing, museums, etc - - a holiday isn't restricted
> > to laying around on a beach.
>
Your definition of average is:
> Compared to the thousands and thousands pouring off cruise ships where
> "exercise" is a walk around the deck with a cocktail, yes. That's the
> concept of average. Take 'em all together and you'll find more lazy
> beer swilling tourists than tourists climbing mountains or trekking
> through the jungle.
Agreed, but as per WikiTravel, the average age of a Royal Caribbean's
passengers has "dropped" to 48, so how much of your stereotype of low
fitness is more likely to be age-based?
> When I made reference to "the subgroup that
> pursues an active recreation", the hikers and surfers would obviously
> be included in this group as well. So would be people who run
> marathons for fun on vacation. Obviously. But there aren't as many
> of those types compared to the non-active tourists which is why I used
> the word average.
Its not a question of raw numbers, but for what the typical activities
are for that age group. This subtread is about older consumers of
what had traditionally been a young man's pursuit. As such, the
comparable "young man's" vacations are precisely those (hike/surf/etc)
that you're conceding to as my point.
> You apparently do nothing but "white glove" diving, but many divers I
> know actually have to occasionally schelp their own gear, perhaps kick
> against current for half a dive, maybe even walk quite a ways with
> tank and weight on back and 40 lbs of camera stuff in the arms...
In other words, you're claiming that an upcurrent swim carrying three
Nikonos camera rigs at 1000 Steps is the "average" dive workout? By
any chance, did you also happen to go to an elementary school each
morning in hip-deep snow where the walk was uphill both ways?
> ... in
> other words doing stuff a lot more active than the "average" tourist,
> the median tourist or even the mean tourist. Those are the divers I
> was referring to, sorry if my broad brush accidentally included you if
> you didn't want to be included.
My observation of "white glove" dive resorts is that while they aren't
all-encompassing of what diving is, but when it comes to dive
vacations (= cruise vacations), they're also not a completely
insignificant percentage. And my point was that these outfits aren't
necessarily anymore healthy than your "average" slovenly cruiser
vacation: there's not really that much exercise, there's often all-
you-can-eat buffets and they're always a bar. Even with the
classical Caribbean cruise, the mere walk through the port's shopping
district will entail being on your feet for an hour or two.
When it comes to trying to compare "active" holidays, IME, a European
guided walking tour encompassing upwards of 70km of hiking in moderate
hills, with gear (daypack/camera/water), in ~5.5 days is consistently
more physically demanding than a week of both the "white glove" form
of dive holiday as well as the typical DIY schlepping of tanks and UW
camera for shore dives in Bonaire.
-hh
sweir
> On Jan 2, 9:56 am, mike gray <omg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > -hh wrote:
>
> > > The same holds true for routine chores up north: early season
> > > snowstorms invariably cause a rash of deaths due to heart attacks from
> > > older adults out shoveling snow. What are you going to do about
> > > it ... ban SNOW?
No, but, like scuba, it is something you should prepare for.
Excercise. Warming up before you start shoveling. Pacing yourself as
you shovel. Having the proper shovel helps too. And, always shovel
with a buddy. Of course I live in Toronto and don't have a drive way.
My shovelling is a 33 ft stretch of sidewalk. I guess though the best
way to address snow shovelling is to have children
Greg Mossman
> Greg Mossman <moss...@qnet.com> wrote:
> > -hh <recscuba_goo...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
> > > Greg Mossman <moss...@qnet.com> wrote:
> > > > [long silly rant]
> > > > If anything, dive tourists tend to be just a bit more
> > > > athletic and healthy-looking than your average tourist if only because
> > > > they're the subgroup that pursues an active recreation rather than
> > > > just sitting on the beach soaking up UV rays, sitting in a bar soaking
> > > > up tequila, or even sitting in a golf cart playing with their little
> > > > white balls.
> > You apparently do nothing but "white glove" diving, but many divers I
> > know actually have to occasionally schelp their own gear, perhaps kick
> > against current for half a dive, maybe even walk quite a ways with
> > tank and weight on back and 40 lbs of camera stuff in the arms...
>
> In other words, you're claiming that an upcurrent swim carrying three
> Nikonos camera rigs at 1000 Steps is the "average" dive workout? By
> any chance, did you also happen to go to an elementary school each
> morning in hip-deep snow where the walk was uphill both ways?
No, I was taking an average between the white-glove divers on one hand
and the shore divers, current swimmers, and those who haul their own
tanks and weights to and from the dive boat. If you average the
activity level of all these divers, I believe you'd find that that
average activity level of these tourist divers exceeds the overall
activity level of the average tourist.
You're also making the assumption the average diver doesn't do much of
any physical activity besides the diving, which is entirely incorrect
except maybe at some of the most isolated dive resorts where one is
stuck on a tiny island with absolutely nothing else to do. On my pre-
fly day in Bonaire, I'll hike Slaagbai. During surface intervals from
very strenuous dives in the Galapagos, we'd walk the islands. I know
other divers that will dance the night away, burning far more calories
than any European "day hiker". All I claimed is that tourist divers
are on average more active and therefore in better shape than average
tourists overall and I still stand by that claim no matter how many
white-glove anecdotes you can produce.
(I wish I had a Nikonos which weighs, what, 2 lbs at most? My housing
weighs 16 lbs empty. With camera and port installed, strobes and
arms, it's closer to 40 lbs. Hiking that up and back to Jellyfish
Lake was definitely a workout and I sure wasn't the only dive tourist
on my boat lugging the same amount of crap.)
-hh
> ...
> > > -hh wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The same holds true for routine chores up north: early season
> > > > snowstorms invariably cause a rash of deaths due to heart attacks from
> > > > older adults out shoveling snow. What are you going to do about
> > > > it ... ban SNOW?
>
> No, but, like scuba, it is something you should prepare for.
> Excercise. Warming up before you start shoveling. Pacing yourself as
> you shovel. Having the proper shovel helps too. And, always shovel
All of which are precisely the "feel good" motherhood statements that
Mike was referring to: they sound good, and even include some element
of 'truth', but there's still a significant divergence between what we
all "say" should be done, and what we actually "do": we all know that
you're secretly a closest solo shoveller :-)
> Of course I live in Toronto and don't have a drive way.
> My shovelling is a 33 ft stretch of sidewalk.
But where do you have your most recent medical checkup results on
public display, to give the general publice the adequate assurances
that you're sufficently fit, qualified and safe to dare to venture to
33ft? Afterall, that sidewalk is a public thoroughfare, so they must
be protected from the potential trauma of tripping over your inert
body.
> I guess though the best
> way to address snow shovelling is to have children
Kids? How much training is required before being allowed to have one
of those in Canada?
-hh
grimp
>
> No, but, like scuba, it is something you should prepare for.
> Excercise. Warming up before you start shoveling. Pacing yourself as
> you shovel. Having the proper shovel helps too. And, always shovel
> with a buddy. Of course I live in Toronto and don't have a drive way.
> My shovelling is a 33 ft stretch of sidewalk. I guess though the best
> way to address snow shovelling is to have children
>
You live in Toronto? Doesn't the army shovel your snow? ;-)
sweir
I moved to Toronto after being brought up at the Northend (ie snowy
end) of the Ottawa Valley where we all kept snowmobiles (seriously) in
the back of trucks so that we would have traction in the snow. When
the Army rolled in I wanted to put one of those shame shame shame
paper bags on my head. Didn't dare show my face in Eganville that year.
Scott
"grimp" <carl the child molester> wrote in message
news:hhtt4q$3tr$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> You live in Toronto? Doesn't the army shovel your snow? ;-)
Hey Cattle!
Happy new year, be good.
Dillon Pyron
Thanks to a "wake up call" in 2002 (BP of 185/120) I think I'm in
better shape at 53 than at 45. 15 pounds lighter, BP and cholsetol in
control (thank you Big Pharma, especially the part where generics are
so cheap I pay the whole price before insurance). My aerobic capacity
is up.
If I die underwater, it's going to be because Carol turned off my air
at 90 ft whilel diving the GBR. Or that jet skier gets out of jail
and has enough money to buy a new one.
--
- dillon I am not invalid
I love my country, It's my government I fear.
Hey, turnabout's fair play.
mike gray
> [Default] Thus spake Dan Bracuk <NOTb...@pathcom.com>:
>
>
>>On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 14:28:20 -0800 (PST), sweir
>><ste...@stephenweir.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>YMCA has ended its certification but I think it had the right
>>>approach. You have to keep diving to keep the certification. If you
>>>don't dive for a few years it is time for a recert ... including a
>>>medical.
>>
>>You are mixing issues. Staying current by continuous diving and
>>changing health as we get older have nothing to do with each other.
>
>
> Thanks to a "wake up call" in 2002 (BP of 185/120) I think I'm in
> better shape at 53 than at 45. 15 pounds lighter, BP and cholsetol in
> control (thank you Big Pharma, especially the part where generics are
> so cheap I pay the whole price before insurance). My aerobic capacity
> is up.
It's you sick kids that give us old folks a bad name!
esg