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Scott

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Feb 21, 2005, 9:05:26 PM2/21/05
to
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~2723492,00.html

Shit.

John 8:22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith,
Whither I go, ye cannot come.


Popeye

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Feb 22, 2005, 2:23:05 AM2/22/05
to

Scott wrote:
> http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~2723492,00.html
>
> Shit.

Hunter had the right idea.

It's better to burn out, than to fade away....

Popeye

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Feb 22, 2005, 2:25:49 AM2/22/05
to

"Investigators recovered the weapon, a .45-caliber handgun."

What a man.

Rod

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Feb 22, 2005, 8:35:05 AM2/22/05
to

Dam we was just talking about him.

TonyP

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Feb 22, 2005, 9:02:14 AM2/22/05
to

must of had a real messed up life to want to blow his brains out.

cam....@beer.com

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Feb 22, 2005, 9:05:10 AM2/22/05
to

He didn't burn out, he snuffed himself. What a coward.

Scott

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Feb 22, 2005, 10:10:37 AM2/22/05
to
"TonyP" <arpi...@Hooptonline.net> wrote in message
news:D%GSd.8495$9S....@fe12.lga...

> must of had a real messed up life to want to blow his brains out.

We'll know more later, wont we?

Scott

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Feb 22, 2005, 10:11:25 AM2/22/05
to
"Popeye" <Buzcu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1109057149....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

That ought to do it.


Popeye

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Feb 22, 2005, 10:52:50 AM2/22/05
to


How absolutely trite.

And ignorant.

Grumman-581

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Feb 22, 2005, 11:17:27 AM2/22/05
to
"TonyP" wrote ...

> must of had a real messed up life to want to blow his brains out.

Or an incurable disease and he wanted to end it cleanly instead of slowly
wasting away...


cam....@beer.com

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Feb 22, 2005, 11:43:11 AM2/22/05
to

So why don't you explain how brave he was to not face his troubles?

TonyP

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Feb 22, 2005, 1:07:48 PM2/22/05
to
Scott wrote:

We could. But him taking his life that way shows he had a LOT of issues,
and possibly a lot of guilt. Most certainly, his life wasn't a "happy" one.

TonyP

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Feb 22, 2005, 1:10:51 PM2/22/05
to
Grumman-581 wrote:

True. If an autopsy report comes out, we'll know if that was the case.
I had a friend many many years ago take his own life once he found out
he had contracted AIDS. I was the unfaithful husband the messed around
on his wife. He paid the ultimate price.

Alan Street

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Feb 22, 2005, 2:03:53 PM2/22/05
to
In article <GJKSd.17665$X96....@fe08.lga>, TonyP
<arpi...@Hooptonline.net> wrote:

Um, Tony. Knowing what we know about you, you might want to re-state
that last line.

Grumman-581

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Feb 22, 2005, 2:38:13 PM2/22/05
to
<cam....@beer.com> wrote ...

> So why don't you explain how brave he was to not face his troubles?

There are times when one should just cut their losses... Perhaps it was his
time... I'm sure that either more information (or rumors) will be coming out
sooner or later...


Grumman-581

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Feb 22, 2005, 2:42:46 PM2/22/05
to
"TonyP" wrote ...

> I was the unfaithful husband the messed around
> on his wife. He paid the ultimate price.

Uhhhh, Tony.... Too much information?

Or did you just have a disconnect between the brain and the fingers?


Greg Mossman

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Feb 22, 2005, 3:04:59 PM2/22/05
to
"Alan Street" <agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:220220051103538525%agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com...

> ? True. If an autopsy report comes out, we'll know if that was the case.
> ? I had a friend many many years ago take his own life once he found out
> ? he had contracted AIDS. I was the unfaithful husband the messed around
> ? on his wife. He paid the ultimate price.
> ?


>
> Um, Tony. Knowing what we know about you, you might want to re-state
> that last line.

Why else do you think he became "born again"? It's gotta take a pretty
severe blow to make one that shell-shocked.


Dan Nafe

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Feb 22, 2005, 4:53:07 PM2/22/05
to
In article <bnwSd.426$0X4....@news.uswest.net>,
"Scott" <pugetso...@gmail.com> wrote:

He pretty much had to go out this way, don't you think?

Scott

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Feb 22, 2005, 5:17:01 PM2/22/05
to
"Dan Nafe" <d...@scuba-training.net> wrote in message
news:dan-4A0775.1...@comcast.dca.giganews.com...

> He pretty much had to go out this way, don't you think?

Yeah, I agree.

I had a lot of laughs reading his writings.


Rod

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Feb 22, 2005, 6:50:59 PM2/22/05
to

It's pretty obvious that some of you don't really know who/what he
was. To go from being a creative force in journalism in the 70, to a
respected author to a bit part stringer for the CNN web page. Yea I
can see some opening there for depression. Combine that with his (at
least in the past) penchant for drugs, stirr in some alcohol and drop
in a 45, let it simmer for a decade. Yea I can see why. Too bad though
I do enjoy reading his stuff.

Karl Denninger

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Feb 22, 2005, 8:54:57 PM2/22/05
to

In article <1109090591.9...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,

IF you respect fundamental human rights, then you must respect one's right
to end their own life.

Without the right to choose not to live for oneself, all other claimed
"rights" are meaningless.

Its fair to argue whether whatever caused him to do this was sufficient
cause, if we ever find out WHY he did it, but what is <absolutely> out of
bounds is to suggest that he did not have the righ to do it.

--
--
Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME!
http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind

nos...@all.please.net

unread,
Feb 22, 2005, 9:23:49 PM2/22/05
to
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 01:54:57 +0000, Karl Denninger wrote:

> Without the right to choose not to live for oneself, all other claimed
> "rights" are meaningless.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well
please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the
consequences." -- P.J. O'Rourke

TonyP

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Feb 22, 2005, 9:59:11 PM2/22/05
to


A typo.. thanks... HE was the unfaithful husband. He was a whiz with
computers and electronics back in the early 80's. Very inventive and
creative. He just had a thing for chasing women. And that was his
demise. He left a wife and daughter. We called him the "Tech". He was
way ahead of his time.

TonyP

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Feb 22, 2005, 10:00:18 PM2/22/05
to
Grumman-581 wrote:

Yeah... been spending a lot of time in the pool. Nothing like a
cholorine overdose. Oh, and lots of Americas Army Urban Assault.

TonyP

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Feb 22, 2005, 10:01:40 PM2/22/05
to
Greg Mossman wrote:

I hate to disappoint you Greg (I know you are still smarting over your
$50 loss/contibution), but it was a typo on my part. Never type and
argue with your kid at the same time.

Popeye

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Feb 22, 2005, 10:12:28 PM2/22/05
to


cam....@beer.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > How absolutely trite.
> >
> > And ignorant.
>
> So why don't you explain how brave he was to not face his troubles?

Your ignorance and irrational fear of mortality is an act of
cowardice in and of itself.

It's also where your preposterously arrogant ideas of the divinity of
human life come from.

Mortal fear.

"Other human lives must be precious."

"So that -mine- will be."

You don't realize what a meaningless, two legged cockroach you are in
the grand scheme of things, the million years the world was here before
your vague philosophies were invented, and the million years the world
will be here after the fragile human race is -extinct-.

The fact is that the human species is the only species capable of
destroying itself, and in quite short order in that grand scheme.

That's about the only significant accomplishment of what you consider
"civilization" has accomplished to date.

You're a joke.

"Our only promise at birth, is death" -Lakota Sioux

"Drink and be merry, for life is short, and death lasts forever"
-Irish Proverb

You haven't a clue as to what's next, or what the severity of his
problems were, or if he had -any- other options..

You made the flat, fuquit rubish statement his act was -cowardly-,
from a point of dipshit ignorance, and a total lack of comprehension of
what death is.

Because it scares you too much to think about it.

So why don't -you- do the explaining?

Popeye

unread,
Feb 22, 2005, 10:16:54 PM2/22/05
to

Karl Denninger wrote:
> In article <1109090591.9...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,

>
> IF you respect fundamental human rights, then you must respect one's
right
> to end their own life.

Jesus committed suicide, didn't he? <ducking>

Scott

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Feb 22, 2005, 10:30:45 PM2/22/05
to

"Popeye" <Buzcu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1109128348.1...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

He cant.

As usual, what we get is the cheap shots from the cheap seats.

Hunter S Thompson will be read, missed and remembered long after Cam has
sucked his last dick.


Scott

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Feb 22, 2005, 10:32:27 PM2/22/05
to

"Popeye" <Buzcu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1109128614....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

Basically, that is accurate.

He denied the enemie the ability to use him for political currency.

He was the prototype American.


AN IDIOT@jesusisdead.com The Religious Right is Neither

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Feb 23, 2005, 12:24:38 AM2/23/05
to

"TonyP" <arpi...@Hooptonline.net> wrote in message
news:WqSSd.7833$Dg7....@fe11.lga...

>
> I hate to disappoint you Greg (I know you are still smarting over your $50
> loss/contibution), but it was a typo on my part. Never type and argue with
> your kid at the same time.

OH GOD! You've been breeding?!

Bad! Very bad!

You have neither the intellect nor moral values to be raising children. We
need no more of you. Look at how f*cked up the world is already. And just
why is that?...


Alan Street

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Feb 23, 2005, 1:28:42 AM2/23/05
to
In article <qsUSd.29493$Tj7....@twister.socal.rr.com>, The Religious
Right is Neither < ID...@jesusisdead.com> wrote:

€ OH GOD! You've been breeding?!



€ Bad! Very bad!

€ You have neither the intellect nor moral values to be raising children. We
€ need no more of you. Look at how f*cked up the world is already. And just
€ why is that?...

€ 66.8.219.148 - pos1-0-oahuhikane-ubr1.hawaii.rr.com

Suds, come on. Tony sincerely lives his life by his beliefs, which is
something I find admirable. You and I may not agree with all the
aspects of his faith, but *sincere* people of faith usually do a pretty
good job of imparting decent morals and life values to their children.

Please save your attacks for something worthy.

Alan

Froggy

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Feb 23, 2005, 5:21:24 AM2/23/05
to
And choosing crucifixion was a masterful PR trick.

Imagine how churches would like if he had been impalled ;-)

Cheers,

Froggy

Froggy

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Feb 23, 2005, 5:27:52 AM2/23/05
to
I did not know he ended up working for CNN.

One would have expected a depressed master of gonzo journalim to be
working at Fox News ;-)

Cheers,

Froggy

Matthias Voss

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Feb 23, 2005, 8:41:29 AM2/23/05
to
Froggy wrote:

> And choosing crucifixion was a masterful PR trick.
>
> Imagine how churches would like if he had been impalled ;-)

... still suspicious how some catholic clerics would not use this as an
excuse...

Matthias

Rod

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Feb 23, 2005, 8:44:36 AM2/23/05
to
elequently put

Rod

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Feb 23, 2005, 8:48:48 AM2/23/05
to

Umm I imagine it would make blessing yourself interesting. Think about
if he had been hung.

Karl Denninger

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Feb 23, 2005, 9:17:40 AM2/23/05
to

In article <1109128614....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,

ROFL!

Well, if you accept that he COULD HAVE come down from the tree, yes, I
suppose he did... :-)

Popeye

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Feb 23, 2005, 9:48:58 AM2/23/05
to

Karl Denninger wrote:
> In article <1109128614....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> Popeye <Buzcu...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >Karl Denninger wrote:
> >> In article
<1109090591.9...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >>
> >> IF you respect fundamental human rights, then you must respect
one's
> >right
> >> to end their own life.
> >
> > Jesus committed suicide, didn't he? <ducking>
>
> ROFL!
>
> Well, if you accept that he COULD HAVE come down from the tree, yes,
I
> suppose he did... :-)


He had the power to come down. The power not to go up. The power not
to feel pain. The power to live indefinately on the cross. The
foresight to avoid it all.

Jesus chose to die, a decision only he could effect.

Millions never hesitate to worship that he sacrificed his own life
for the sin of mankind, but that doesn't make it any less of a suicide.

The entire problem with worship today is the ignorance of man fucking
it up.

TonyP

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Feb 23, 2005, 10:02:29 AM2/23/05
to

Not Jesus of the Bible.

Popeye

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Feb 23, 2005, 10:04:50 AM2/23/05
to

Semantics, Tony, semantics.

TonyP

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Feb 23, 2005, 10:19:06 AM2/23/05
to
Popeye wrote:

> Karl Denninger wrote:
>
>>In article <1109128614....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
>>Popeye <Buzcu...@aol.com> wrote:

>>>Karl Denninger wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article

> <1109090591.9...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>
>>>>IF you respect fundamental human rights, then you must respect one's>

>>>right end their own life.

>>> Jesus committed suicide, didn't he? <ducking>

>>ROFL!
>>Well, if you accept that he COULD HAVE come down from the tree, yes, I
>>suppose he did... :-)

> He had the power to come down. The power not to go up. The power not
> to feel pain. The power to live indefinately on the cross. The
> foresight to avoid it all.

But He chose not to. This was the only way for the redemption of mankind.

> Jesus chose to die, a decision only he could effect.

It was His choice, one that was made before the foundations of the world
was laid.

> Millions never hesitate to worship that he sacrificed his own life
> for the sin of mankind, but that doesn't make it any less of a suicide.

I always thought of suicide as you killing yourself. When you give your
life to save another is not committing suicide. It is the ultimate
sacrifice. Soldiers do it. Firemen and police officers do, along with
countless others that willingly go into situations where they have no
regard for their life in the attempt to save another.
John 15:13 " Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his
life for his friends."

Popeye

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Feb 23, 2005, 11:04:09 AM2/23/05
to

TonyP wrote:
>
> > He had the power to come down. The power not to go up. The power
not
> > to feel pain. The power to live indefinately on the cross. The
> > foresight to avoid it all.
>
> But He chose not to. This was the only way for the redemption of
mankind.
>
> > Jesus chose to die, a decision only he could effect.
>
> It was His choice, one that was made before the foundations of the
world
> was laid.
>
> > Millions never hesitate to worship that he sacrificed his own
life
> > for the sin of mankind, but that doesn't make it any less of a
suicide.
>
> I always thought of suicide as you killing yourself.

So if I step in front of a bus as opposed to putting a gun to my own
head, or walk into a police precinct and open fire, that's not suicide?

If I kill myself so my ill friend can have my liver?

Semantics.

Main Entry: [1]sui·cide
Pronunciation: 'sü-&-"sId
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin sui (general) of oneself + English -cide; akin to Old
Date: 1643

1 a : the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and
intentionally especially by a person of years of discretion and of
sound mind


> When you give your
> life to save another is not committing suicide. It is the ultimate
> sacrifice. Soldiers do it. Firemen and police officers do, along with

> countless others that willingly go into situations where they have no

> regard for their life in the attempt to save another.
> John 15:13 " Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down
his
> life for his friends."
>
> > The entire problem with worship today is the ignorance of man
fucking
> > it up.

I agree completely with everything you said.

I don't belittle what he did, as some would belittle what others do.

I don't question the motive, the benefit of mankind, or anything.

Except that Jesus -chose- to die instead of live.

Who, what, when, where, how, - all semantics.

Jesus -chose- death.

We have a hard enough time interpreting the Ten Commandments.

Let's stick to those.


"When I burn a bull on my altar for a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9). The problem is my neighbors.
They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with
this?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery as it suggests in Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price
for her?

I know that I'm not allowed contact with a woman when she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how
do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations around us. A
friend of mine claims this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. What
do you think?

I have a neighbor who insists upon working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2
clearly states that he should be put to death. Do I have to do this
myself, or should I call someone else?

A friend of mine says that homosexuality is an abomination. And
Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. But I don't
think it is more of an abomination than eating shellfish as stated in
Lev. 10:20.

Lev. 20:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
defect in my sight. I do wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to
be 20/20 or is there some wiggle room here?"

Lee Bell

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Feb 23, 2005, 11:23:22 AM2/23/05
to
"Froggy" wrote

> And choosing crucifixion was a masterful PR trick.
>
> Imagine how churches would like if he had been impalled ;-)

They would have a lot more devout members if he's decided to screw his
brains out.

Lee


Froggy

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Feb 23, 2005, 11:32:19 AM2/23/05
to

TonyP wrote:
> Popeye wrote:
>
> > Karl Denninger wrote:
> >
> >>In article <1109128614....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> >>Popeye <Buzcu...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >>>Karl Denninger wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>In article
>
> > <1109090591.9...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >>>>IF you respect fundamental human rights, then you must respect
one's>
> >>>right end their own life.
>
> >>> Jesus committed suicide, didn't he? <ducking>
>
> >>ROFL!
> >>Well, if you accept that he COULD HAVE come down from the tree,
yes, I
> >>suppose he did... :-)
>
> > He had the power to come down. The power not to go up. The power
not
> > to feel pain. The power to live indefinately on the cross. The
> > foresight to avoid it all.
>
> But He chose not to. This was the only way for the redemption of
mankind.

When I look at the world, I cannot help but think that the plan somehow
backfired. If that really was the only opportunity then I am afraid
we're in deep doo-doo ;-)

Cheers,

Froggy

cam....@beer.com

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Feb 23, 2005, 11:32:10 AM2/23/05
to

Karl Denninger wrote:
>
> IF you respect fundamental human rights, then you must respect one's
right
> to end their own life.
>
> Without the right to choose not to live for oneself, all other
claimed
> "rights" are meaningless.
>

Accepting his rights and glorifying the act are two entirely different
things.

Cam

Lee Bell

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Feb 23, 2005, 11:33:28 AM2/23/05
to
> I always thought of suicide as you killing yourself. When you give your
> life to save another is not committing suicide. It is the ultimate
> sacrifice. Soldiers do it. Firemen and police officers do, along with
> countless others that willingly go into situations where they have no
> regard for their life in the attempt to save another.
> John 15:13 " Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his
> life for his friends."

My, this opens all kinds of topics for discussion:

Topic 1: There are various kinds of suicide. You can do it yourself, or you
can do something you are pretty certain will result in your death. Putting
a .45 to your head and pulling the trigger is an example of the first type.
Attacking Grumman with a knife is an example of the latter.

Topic 2: Risking your own life to safe that of another is laudable. Doing
it when you know it will cost you your life may also be laudable, but it's
still suicide. Doing it on a cross, to save a soul that you, as one of the
three aspects of GOD could have saved simply by willing it to be so, is kind
of crazy.

Topic 3: While it's nice to talk about the love of a person that lays his
life down for another, my personal preference is to ensure it's somebody
else's life I lay down for my friend. I think it was Patton that said
something like, "our goal is not to die for our country, but to cause the
enemy to die for his."

> The entire problem with worship today is the ignorance of man fucking
> it up.

Yesterday, today and tomorrow. Some things never change.

Lee


cam....@beer.com

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Feb 23, 2005, 11:37:51 AM2/23/05
to

Scott wrote:
> "Popeye" <Buzcu...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1109128348.1...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > So why don't -you- do the explaining?
>
> He cant.
>
> As usual, what we get is the cheap shots from the cheap seats.
>
> Hunter S Thompson will be read, missed and remembered long after Cam
has
> sucked his last dick.

Hey Scott,
Yesterday you posted a Bible tract condemning suicide. Are you
flip-flopping or will you once again claim that you didn't read the
cites you've posted?

Cam

Froggy

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 11:43:02 AM2/23/05
to
I don't know.

Most if not all large-scale organized religions apparently have a
problem with "screwing one's brain out".

OTOH it sounds like a recipe for success if you want to establish a
small church or sect (especially from the guru's point of view).

For some reasons it seems that these things do not scale well.

Cheers,

Froggy

cam....@beer.com

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 12:14:02 PM2/23/05
to

Popeye wrote:

> cam....@beer.com wrote:
> > So why don't you explain how brave he was to not face his troubles?
>
> Your ignorance and irrational fear of mortality is an act of
> cowardice in and of itself.

Suicide is fear of life and the pain and uncertainty that is
inevitable. That is cowardice.

>
> It's also where your preposterously arrogant ideas of the divinity
of
> human life come from.
>
> Mortal fear.
>
> "Other human lives must be precious."
>
> "So that -mine- will be."
>
> You don't realize what a meaningless, two legged cockroach you are
in
> the grand scheme of things, the million years the world was here
before
> your vague philosophies were invented, and the million years the
world
> will be here after the fragile human race is -extinct-.
>
> The fact is that the human species is the only species capable of
> destroying itself, and in quite short order in that grand scheme.
>
> That's about the only significant accomplishment of what you
consider
> "civilization" has accomplished to date.

More than just a little off topic, aren't you? Have a nice rant.

>
> You're a joke.
>
> "Our only promise at birth, is death" -Lakota Sioux
>
> "Drink and be merry, for life is short, and death lasts forever"
> -Irish Proverb

Thanks for posting a proverb that supports my position.

>
> You haven't a clue as to what's next, or what the severity of his
> problems were, or if he had -any- other options..
>
> You made the flat, fuquit rubish statement his act was -cowardly-,
> from a point of dipshit ignorance, and a total lack of comprehension
of
> what death is.
>
> Because it scares you too much to think about it.
>
> So why don't -you- do the explaining?

Popeye,
You glorified his suicide. You don't know what his problems were either
but you gave him post mortem congratulations for quitting life. You
seem to have a romantic notion of suicide most commonly shared by
teenagers who pine after dead rock stars. You said 'better to burn out
than fade away'. Suicide is the ultimate fading away. He didn't go out
swinging, he gave up. Glorify that.

Cam

Grumman-581

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 12:19:43 PM2/23/05
to
<cam....@beer.com> wrote ...

> Suicide is fear of life and the pain and uncertainty that is
> inevitable. That is cowardice.

Or maybe he just found out that Geico wouldn't renew him... <sick-grin>


cam....@beer.com

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 12:35:00 PM2/23/05
to

Or maybe he found out he was married to Courtney Love.

George Cathcart

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 12:49:55 PM2/23/05
to
cam....@beer.com wrote:

> Popeye,
> You glorified his suicide. You don't know what his problems were either
> but you gave him post mortem congratulations for quitting life. You
> seem to have a romantic notion of suicide most commonly shared by
> teenagers who pine after dead rock stars. You said 'better to burn out
> than fade away'. Suicide is the ultimate fading away. He didn't go out
> swinging, he gave up. Glorify that.
>
> Cam
>

I have Popeye KFed, so I didn't see whatever he wrote, but this is
pretty funny when you think about it.

Remember Popeye dancing on Black's grave? After Black presumably
committed suicide, Popeye was beside himself with joy, and it wasn't
because of the heroism of Black's demise, I can tell you that.

I almost wish I was mean-spirited enough to hope Pops follows in his
(Black's or Thompson's) footsteps, but I'm not.

I lost two friends to suicide last year, and I'm still pissed at both of
them. Someone once said suicide is the most selfish thing a person can
do. I couldn't agree more.

Hunter Thompson was an excellent writer, and I will miss his writing,
even though it had deterioriated in recent years just like his life.

He was no role model.

gc

Greg Mossman

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 11:37:20 AM2/23/05
to
"Froggy" <hub...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1109154472.6...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

> One would have expected a depressed master of gonzo journalim to be
> working at Fox News ;-)

The difference is that (1) Hunter never really meant his writing to be
considered "real" journalism unlike the wackos at Fox, and (2) his liberal
rants hardly fit within the Republican propaganda system.

"Who does vote for these dishonest shitheads?" he writes, referring to the
people currently occupying the White House. "They are the racists and hate
mongers among us -- they are the Ku Klux Klan. I piss down the throats of
these Nazis." -- Hunter S. Thompson, "Kingdom of Fear" (quote courtesy of
salon.com)

"The godfather of gonzo believes America has suffered a "nationwide nervous
breakdown" since 9/11, and as a result is compromising civil liberties for
what he calls "the illusion of security." The compromise, he says, is "a
disaster of unthinkable proportions" and "part of the downward spiral of
dumbness" he believes is plaguing the country. -- Salon Interview, 2/3/03

It's a bit amusing to see right-wingers lament his death. Trust me, you
won't find any tears in my eyes if Ann Coulter gets hit by a bus.


Crownfield

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 1:32:14 PM2/23/05
to
Lee Bell wrote:
>

> Topic 2: Risking your own life to safe that of another is laudable. Doing
> it when you know it will cost you your life may also be laudable, but it's
> still suicide.

not quite.

suicide is killing yourself.
to kill yourself must be the primary goal.

sacrificing your life to save another is not suicide,
(although the difference seems small)

>
> Lee

Popeye

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 1:48:17 PM2/23/05
to

cam....@beer.com wrote:
> Popeye wrote:

> Suicide is fear of life and the pain and uncertainty that is
> inevitable. That is cowardice.

That is a grandly unsupportable opinion.

While it may be valid for -you- (as I've stated, it's your terror of
mortality that bring you to us), it certainly isn't valid for everyone.

> More than just a little off topic, aren't you? Have a nice rant.

It was directly on topic. Your opinions are a reflection of your fear
of death.

That's the only cowardice we've seen.

> > "Drink and be merry, for life is short, and death lasts forever"
> > -Irish Proverb
>
> Thanks for posting a proverb that supports my position.

You have no idea what death is, or entails.

You only have your fear of it.

> So why don't -you- do the explaining?
>
> Popeye,
> You glorified his suicide. You don't know what his problems were
either
> but you gave him post mortem congratulations for quitting life. You
> seem to have a romantic notion of suicide most commonly shared by
> teenagers who pine after dead rock stars. You said 'better to burn
out
> than fade away'. Suicide is the ultimate fading away. He didn't go
out
> swinging, he gave up. Glorify that.

In his particular situation, of which you're blissfully ignorant, he
may well have gone out swinging. Being a vegitable on tubes, or dying
in agony without hope because you're terrified of death certainly isn't
"swinging" in my book. Maybe he was just bored, and curious about what
was next.

Be a man.

Pull the trigger.

Or be a coward, and die brainless in a puddle of your own feces, a
grevious burdon to your family and friends.

Your fear is the foundation of your position.

I have DNR tattooed on my back.

I walk my talk.

As always.

All my close friends have also expressed their wishes in this matter,
and I'll excercize their wishes, without hesitation, if their family
doesn't.

Scott

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 2:04:47 PM2/23/05
to

"Popeye" <Buzcu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1109184497.0...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> All my close friends have also expressed their wishes in this matter,
> and I'll excercize their wishes, without hesitation, if their family
> doesn't.

If I was fatally injured or came down with a terminal disease that rendered
me bed-ridden, or in a coma, or anything similar, I would hope that someone
in this world cared enough about me to punch my ticket if I couldnt do it
myself.


Alan Street

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 2:05:50 PM2/23/05
to
In article <Fo4Td.32$9c5...@news.uswest.net>, Scott
<pugetso...@gmail.com> wrote:

€ "Popeye" <Buzcu...@aol.com> wrote in message




Don't get sick in Florida.

Popeye

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 2:17:11 PM2/23/05
to

George Cathcart wrote:
>
> I have Popeye KFed, so I didn't see whatever he wrote, but this is
> pretty funny when you think about it.

That's because you're too mentally weak to argue any given point with
me rationally.

I highly doubt that you have my new Google account KF'd, but then
again, your fear is palpable.

-Thanks for the compliment-.

> Remember Popeye dancing on Black's grave? After Black presumably
> committed suicide, Popeye was beside himself with joy, and it wasn't
> because of the heroism of Black's demise, I can tell you that.

I have no idea what relevence that has to this.

I've never been happier that someone is dead.

But, I -never- criticized his act of suicide.

("Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere"
-Hannibal Lector)

If you knew anything about me, you'd know why.

What a mindless fool you are.

> I almost wish I was mean-spirited enough to hope Pops follows in his
> (Black's or Thompson's) footsteps, but I'm not.

That's because you're a pussy.

When -I- hate someone, I gleefully state it.

Because I'm a manly man.

You're busy being politically correct, which is a disease of dogs.

Your very post was a tangible act of hate.

But I'm comfortable with my life, and my potential afterlife.

You'll never meet anyone less afraid to die than me.

I've lived more life, busted more quiff, and pissed more beer than
any three people you know.

You should have been in the office last Febuary when the doc told me
I had late Stage II prostate cancer and I broke out laughing.

I never lost a moment's sleep over it.

My girlfriend never had a clue, until months later.

Either you live, or you die.

It's just not any more complicated than that.

> I lost two friends to suicide last year, and I'm still pissed at both
of
> them. Someone once said suicide is the most selfish thing a person
can
> do. I couldn't agree more.

The "most selfish thing" is that you allow your memory of your
friends to be poisoned by your own fears.

I'm sure your friends, where ever they are, are happy that you're
ashamed of them.

It's very revealing, that you wish -your friends- to suffer for -your
personal satisfaction- instead of encouraging them to manage their own
fate.

What a swell guy.

> Hunter Thompson was an excellent writer, and I will miss his
writing,
> even though it had deterioriated in recent years just like his life.
>
> He was no role model.

As opposed to you?

Thanks but no thanks.

If I had a kid like you, I'd drown him out of mercy.

> gc

Popeye

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 2:26:07 PM2/23/05
to

Alan Street wrote:

>
> Don't get sick in Florida.

There's a classic example of Cam and George's terror.

Don't you love these "decent Christians", that deny their daughter
entrance to heaven so they can change her diapers and wipe her snot and
drool for another few decades?

I can't think of a more abominable act.

Greg Mossman

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 2:06:24 PM2/23/05
to
"George Cathcart" <gcat...@nospam.umd.edu> wrote in message
news:cvifo6$2t7$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...

> He was no role model.

He was my role model.


Scott

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 2:41:08 PM2/23/05
to
"Popeye" <Buzcu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1109186231.3...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

<snip the pimp-slap>

> That's because you're a pussy.
>
> When -I- hate someone, I gleefully state it.
>
> Because I'm a manly man.
>
> You're busy being politically correct, which is a disease of dogs.

Yet my dogs never seem to get it. Must be leftist liberal dogs like Yorkies,
Pugs, Chihuahua's and their human counterparts.

Hunter S. is where he wanted to be. His use of a .45 simply made the
likelihood of failure remote. No "gesture" here.

I was bummed purely for selfish reasons;

I had hoped that he would write one or two more books in his "golden years."

George Cathcart

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 2:40:32 PM2/23/05
to
Greg Mossman wrote:

I stand corrected, or at least clarified.

He was not my role model, at least not for how to end my life.

I wish I could have written like him, but I didn't have the capacity for
that many drugs.

gc


Scott

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 2:44:46 PM2/23/05
to

"Popeye" <Buzcu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1109186767.7...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Second.


Grumman-581

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 2:54:57 PM2/23/05
to
"Greg Mossman" wrote ...

> He was my role model.

So, you're going to go buy yourself a .45?


Grumman-581

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 3:00:20 PM2/23/05
to
"Scott" wrote ...

> Yet my dogs never seem to get it. Must be leftist liberal dogs like
Yorkies,
> Pugs, Chihuahua's and their human counterparts.

You're dogs are gentler than any Yorkie, Pug, or Chihuahuah ever thought
about being... I hate those fuckin' rat dogs...

> I was bummed purely for selfish reasons;
>
> I had hoped that he would write one or two more books in his "golden
years."

I had never even heard of him... Guess I don't read those leftist
writings... Kind of strange him being a leftist and a strong gun
supporter...


Alan Street

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 3:43:33 PM2/23/05
to
In article <bnwSd.426$0X4....@news.uswest.net>, Scott
<pugetso...@gmail.com> wrote:

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~2723492,00.html

€ Shit.

€ John 8:22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith,
€ Whither I go, ye cannot come.


"Douglas Brinkley, a historian and author who has edited some of
Thompson's work, said the founder of "gonzo" journalism shot himself
Sunday night after weeks of pain from a host of physical problems that
included a broken leg and a hip replacement.

"I think he made a conscious decision that he had an incredible run of
67 years, lived the way he wanted to, and wasn't going to suffer the
indignities of old age," Brinkley said in a telephone interview from
Aspen. "He was not going to let anybody dictate how he was going to
die.""

http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/books/02/23/thompson.death.ap/index.html

Kinda hard to argue with this reasoning.

Chris Guynn

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 4:23:58 PM2/23/05
to

"Grumman-581" <grumman58...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:ns5Td.18042$b%4.1...@fe07.lga...
<Snip>

> I had never even heard of him... Guess I don't read those leftist
> writings... Kind of strange him being a leftist and a strong gun
> supporter...

Are you kidding? His last act in life was to give the Brady bunch more ammo
(pardon the pun)...


Popeye

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 4:25:47 PM2/23/05
to

Alan Street wrote:

It's not hard if you enjoy the suffering of others, like Cam and
George.

Keep a stiff upper lip, eh wot?

Live without dignity, deteriorate like rotting meat, but don't make
Cam and George face the finality of life that terrorizes them so.

Life at -any- cost- regardless of quality or personal choice.

Right, Cam?

Michael Wolf

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 4:39:12 PM2/23/05
to
"Froggy" <hub...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1109154084.9...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> And choosing crucifixion was a masterful PR trick.
>
> Imagine how churches would like if he had been impalled ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Froggy
>

OTOH if they had drowned him...

--
Michael Wolf
------------

Cthulhu for President! Why settle for the lesser evil?

remove stopspam to reply

Scott

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 4:54:06 PM2/23/05
to
"Alan Street" <agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:230220051243335721%agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com...

> "Douglas Brinkley, a historian and author who has edited some of
> Thompson's work, said the founder of "gonzo" journalism shot himself
> Sunday night after weeks of pain from a host of physical problems that
> included a broken leg and a hip replacement.
>
> "I think he made a conscious decision that he had an incredible run of
> 67 years, lived the way he wanted to, and wasn't going to suffer the
> indignities of old age," Brinkley said in a telephone interview from
> Aspen. "He was not going to let anybody dictate how he was going to
> die.""
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/books/02/23/thompson.death.ap/index.html
>
> Kinda hard to argue with this reasoning.

Nothing to argue really, he made the choice, and used the tool that made
sure his decision wouldn't be usurped.

And, most cool of all, he wants his ashes fired from a cannon.

cam....@beer.com

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 4:59:39 PM2/23/05
to

As I said earlier, accepting his right to choose is a far cry from
cheering him on. It was a sad choice and you took pleasure in it.

Greg Mossman

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 5:04:01 PM2/23/05
to
"Michael Wolf" <michae...@advalvasstopspam.be> wrote in message
news:Xns9606E671B6CC7mi...@195.130.132.71...

> "Froggy" <hub...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:1109154084.9...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>> And choosing crucifixion was a masterful PR trick.
>>
>> Imagine how churches would like if he had been impalled ;-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Froggy
>>
>
> OTOH if they had drowned him...

All of we scuba-divin' fools would be respected as high priests, just like
today we respect those monks who are able to drink copious amounts of booze
yet refrain from talking loudly like most drunks.


Greg Mossman

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 5:18:22 PM2/23/05
to
"George Cathcart" <gcat...@nospam.umd.edu> wrote in message
news:cvim7i$581$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...

> I stand corrected, or at least clarified.
>
> He was not my role model, at least not for how to end my life.

If it turns out he ended his life just because of the pain from his broken
leg and such as some media reports have suggested, then that was lame. But
I can't believe that. Hunter knew how to use painkillers.

> I wish I could have written like him, but I didn't have the capacity for
> that many drugs.

I don't have a problem with the capacity. We were all younger then. I just
can't believe how he still remembered anything to write about the next day.


Greg Mossman

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 5:19:54 PM2/23/05
to
"Grumman-581" <grumman58...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:kn5Td.18015$z_4...@fe07.lga...

> "Greg Mossman" wrote ...
>> He was my role model.
>
> So, you're going to go buy yourself a .45?

I have 30 more years to go. Still, I did join the NRA this year as a 3-year
member. Not a liberal life member like Hunter, but I'm working on it.


George Cathcart

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 5:19:50 PM2/23/05
to
cam....@beer.com wrote:

> Popeye wrote:
>

>> It's not hard if you enjoy the suffering of others, like Cam and
>>George.
>>
>> Keep a stiff upper lip, eh wot?
>>
>> Live without dignity, deteriorate like rotting meat, but don't make
>>Cam and George face the finality of life that terrorizes them so.
>>
>> Life at -any- cost- regardless of quality or personal choice.
>>
>> Right, Cam?
>
>
> As I said earlier, accepting his right to choose is a far cry from
> cheering him on. It was a sad choice and you took pleasure in it.
>

I neither enjoy the suffering of others nor am I terrorized by the
finality of life. I've faced it enough times, including the death of my
first wife from cancer nearly 25 years ago.

Popeye is putting words in my mouth, but only because he is ignorant of
me and of the thoughts in my head.

I fully respect and support the right to die with dignity, and where the
law allows it, with the consent and understanding of all concerned, it
is a healing and honest event. I wish more laws would allow it, and I
wish the "right to life" crowd would recognize how important it is.

But I draw a very sharp distinction between a rational choice made with
love and compassion and a violent end in lonely desperation, which is
what I saw my friends do, and what I think Hunter Thompson did. Cam is
also right, though. In neither case is it something to cheer.

It's ironic how alike Black and Thompson were -- killing themselves,
alone, using the things they loved most (diving and guns, respectively)
to do it.

gc

Popeye

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 5:28:18 PM2/23/05
to

cam....@beer.com wrote:
> Popeye wrote:

>
> As I said earlier, accepting his right to choose is a far cry from
> cheering him on. It was a sad choice and you took pleasure in it.

You ain't much of a man, and that's not what you said.

What a complete Eurotrash pussy.

Who said what, as always on Rec.scubs, is a matter of record.

I said this:

"Hunter had the right idea."

"It's better to burn out, than to fade away...."

"Investigators recovered the weapon, a .45-caliber handgun."

"What a man."


Then your little drippy man-vagina puckered all up, and you said
this:


"He didn't burn out, he snuffed himself. What a coward."


I honored him for what he did.

You passed judgement on his entire life from a point of complete
ignorance.

It's the sum of your posting history here.

It's all right there, scumbag.

And now you're dancing your way backwards as fast as possible.
But istead of just being ashamed, and shutting up, you try to justify,
blame, insult.

It's worms like you that make this place so fulfilling for me.

While I hold a magnifying glass in the sun above your head and watch
you squirm.

George Cathcart

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 5:28:42 PM2/23/05
to
Greg Mossman wrote:

>
>>I wish I could have written like him, but I didn't have the capacity for
>>that many drugs.
>
>
> I don't have a problem with the capacity. We were all younger then. I just
> can't believe how he still remembered anything to write about the next day.
>
>

I agree. I have always been astonished -- incredulous, actually, that he
could have done all the drugs he claimed and written as well as he did.

But it wasn't about the accuracy of his memory. As a number of
journalists have said the last few days, Thompson never regarded himself
as a journalist, and he wasn't trying to be objective or accurate. It
was impressionistic. What he wrote about Muskie, Humphrey, Nixon or Bush
was his nightmare vision, and it worked because it was dead right.

So he didn't have to remember anything except his nightmares.

When I was working for a newspaper back in the 70s, I had to edit a golf
writer who was a raging alcoholic. He wrote his columns long hand in the
middle of the night, while drunk. His manuscripts looked like
cockroaches had swum in an inkwell and then walked over the page. But
once I deciphered it and got it typed up, it was beautiful stuff, and I
don't even like golf. I don't know how he did it, and I do admire the
outcome, but, again, I'm glad I didn't pick him for a role model either.

gc

Popeye

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 5:53:26 PM2/23/05
to

George Cathcart wrote:

>
> I neither enjoy the suffering of others nor am I terrorized by the
> finality of life. I've faced it enough times, including the death of
my
> first wife from cancer nearly 25 years ago.

Somehow I suspect it was her facing the death and not you.

Glad you got her to die a slow and agonizing death so that it fit
more conveniently into your id.

> Popeye is putting words in my mouth, but only because he is ignorant
of
> me and of the thoughts in my head.

Well, I'm clearly following your lead at doing just that, except of
course that I've provided the examples instead of making up incoherent
ones like you did.

What I know of you and what you diem logic is, as always, right here
for us all to see.

Your whole purpose at being here is to take a cheap shot at me.

It worked out about as well as it usually does. ;-)

> I fully respect and support the right to die with dignity, and where
the
> law allows it, with the consent and understanding of all concerned,
it
> is a healing and honest event. I wish more laws would allow it, and I

> wish the "right to life" crowd would recognize how important it is.

If the law allows?

How incredulous.

And pathetic.

> But I draw a very sharp distinction between a rational choice made
with
> love and compassion and a violent end in lonely desperation, which is

> what I saw my friends do, and what I think Hunter Thompson did.

I'm sure he'll dwell on your opinion in the hereafter.

How profoundly pompous.

>Cam is also right, though. In neither case is it something to cheer.

Perfectly clear, you know, for you two.

> It's ironic how alike Black and Thompson were -- killing themselves,
> alone, using the things they loved most (diving and guns,
respectively)
> to do it.

"It's ironic how alike Black and Thompson were"

"It's ironic how alike Black and Thompson were"

"It's ironic how alike Black and Thompson were"

Someone please translate this into Earth for me.


> gc

TonyP

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 6:04:49 PM2/23/05
to
Popeye wrote:

> TonyP wrote:
>>I always thought of suicide as you killing yourself.

> So if I step in front of a bus as opposed to putting a gun to my own
> head, or walk into a police precinct and open fire, that's not suicide?

You would be still killing yourself.

> If I kill myself so my ill friend can have my liver?
>
> Semantics.
>
> Main Entry: [1]sui·cide
> Pronunciation: 'sü-&-"sId
> Function: noun
> Etymology: Latin sui (general) of oneself + English -cide; akin to Old
> Date: 1643
>
> 1 a : the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and
> intentionally especially by a person of years of discretion and of
> sound mind

Christ didn't take His life.

>>When you give your
>>life to save another is not committing suicide. It is the ultimate
>>sacrifice. Soldiers do it. Firemen and police officers do, along with
>>countless others that willingly go into situations where they have no
>>regard for their life in the attempt to save another.
>>John 15:13 " Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his
>>life for his friends."

> I agree completely with everything you said.
> I don't belittle what he did, as some would belittle what others do.
> I don't question the motive, the benefit of mankind, or anything.
>
> Except that Jesus -chose- to die instead of live.

The earthly flesh died. The spirit doesn't. He chose to lay down his
life as a sacrifice so that others can live. The people sought him out.
No bus are train or gun or building or pill seeks "you" out to kill you.

> Who, what, when, where, how, - all semantics.
> Jesus -chose- death.

Yes He did.

> We have a hard enough time interpreting the Ten Commandments.
> Let's stick to those.

> "When I burn a bull on my altar for a sacrifice, I know it creates a
> pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9). The problem is my neighbors.
> They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with
> this?

Burn the bull. Please God first (remember the 10 Commandments).

> I would like to sell my daughter into slavery as it suggests in Exodus
> 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price
> for her?

I don't know... how much and how pretty? :) Continue reading the Bible.
When you get to the New Testament, see what it says about slavery.

> I know that I'm not allowed contact with a woman when she is in her
> period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how
> do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Don't ask, don't touch.

> Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations around us. A
> friend of mine claims this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. What
> do you think?

Mexicans are hard workers. Canadians... well... I'll leave that one alone.

> I have a neighbor who insists upon working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2
> clearly states that he should be put to death. Do I have to do this
> myself, or should I call someone else?

Depends on how tough the neighbor is and how well equiped you are.

> A friend of mine says that homosexuality is an abomination. And
> Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. But I don't
> think it is more of an abomination than eating shellfish as stated in
> Lev. 10:20.

Don't be one, don't eat one.

> Lev. 20:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
> defect in my sight. I do wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to
> be 20/20 or is there some wiggle room here?"

Wiggley room.

Now.. all that you have written about has been from the Book of
Leviticus. Who was it written to. Under what circumstances was it
written. Why was it written, and finally, is it relavent for today.

TonyP

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 6:08:55 PM2/23/05
to
Lee Bell wrote:

>>I always thought of suicide as you killing yourself. When you give your

>>life to save another is not committing suicide. It is the ultimate
>>sacrifice. Soldiers do it. Firemen and police officers do, along with
>>countless others that willingly go into situations where they have no
>>regard for their life in the attempt to save another.
>>John 15:13 " Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his
>>life for his friends."

> My, this opens all kinds of topics for discussion:
>
> Topic 1: There are various kinds of suicide. You can do it yourself, or you
> can do something you are pretty certain will result in your death. Putting
> a .45 to your head and pulling the trigger is an example of the first type.
> Attacking Grumman with a knife is an example of the latter.

Yep... looking at Doug, I would have to say the same.

> Topic 2: Risking your own life to safe that of another is laudable. Doing
> it when you know it will cost you your life may also be laudable, but it's
> still suicide. Doing it on a cross, to save a soul that you, as one of the
> three aspects of GOD could have saved simply by willing it to be so, is kind
> of crazy.

No not crazy. You would have to have a further understanding of the
why's for the death of Christ.

> Topic 3: While it's nice to talk about the love of a person that lays his
> life down for another, my personal preference is to ensure it's somebody
> else's life I lay down for my friend. I think it was Patton that said
> something like, "our goal is not to die for our country, but to cause the
> enemy to die for his."

Yep... but if I had to rush in to save my family at my expense, I would.
I am sure you would do the same.

>> The entire problem with worship today is the ignorance of man fucking
>>it up.

We sure can mess it up. But, like diving, we keep trying till we get it
right.

> Yesterday, today and tomorrow. Some things never change.

TonyP

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 6:16:09 PM2/23/05
to
Popeye wrote:

> Alan Street wrote:

>>Don't get sick in Florida.

> There's a classic example of Cam and George's terror.
>
> Don't you love these "decent Christians", that deny their daughter
> entrance to heaven so they can change her diapers and wipe her snot and
> drool for another few decades?

It is their choice.

> I can't think of a more abominable act.

those are your thoughts, which you are entitled to, just as they are to
theirs.

Scott

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 6:26:53 PM2/23/05
to
"Popeye" <Buzcu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1109199206.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

> I'm sure he'll dwell on your opinion in the hereafter.

I'd bet he did it with the knowledge that the lickspittles would be pissed,
and they are, and that the lefties would try to use it as a reason to take
away guns, which they are.

I'd bet he is laughing his ass off.

> How profoundly pompous.

Bingo.

Supports his pre-suppositions.

No need for facts.

> >Cam is also right, though. In neither case is it something to cheer.
>
> Perfectly clear, you know, for you two.
>
> > It's ironic how alike Black and Thompson were -- killing themselves,
> > alone, using the things they loved most (diving and guns,
> respectively)
> > to do it.
>
> "It's ironic how alike Black and Thompson were"
>
> "It's ironic how alike Black and Thompson were"
>
> "It's ironic how alike Black and Thompson were"
>
> Someone please translate this into Earth for me.

Just another cheap shot from the cheap seats.


Popeye

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 6:49:27 PM2/23/05
to

TonyP wrote:
> Popeye wrote:
>
> > Alan Street wrote:
>
> >>Don't get sick in Florida.
>
> > There's a classic example of Cam and George's terror.
> >
> > Don't you love these "decent Christians", that deny their
daughter
> > entrance to heaven so they can change her diapers and wipe her snot
and
> > drool for another few decades?
>
> It is their choice.

It's not. It was her husband's choice, until the governor involved
himself.

Popeye

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 7:02:41 PM2/23/05
to

TonyP wrote:
> Popeye wrote:
>
> > TonyP wrote:
> >>I always thought of suicide as you killing yourself.
>
> > So if I step in front of a bus as opposed to putting a gun to my
own
> > head, or walk into a police precinct and open fire, that's not
suicide?
>
> You would be still killing yourself.

But you skipped the next section...


> Christ didn't take His life.

Neither did the jumper or the cop shooter.


> The earthly flesh died. The spirit doesn't. He chose to lay down his
> life as a sacrifice so that others can live. The people sought him
out.
> No bus are train or gun or building or pill seeks "you" out to kill
you.

Just like the rest of us, or, some of us, depending on one's beliefs.

He chose to die. Foresaw his death. Facilitated his death.

He chose death over life.

>
> > Who, what, when, where, how, - all semantics.
> > Jesus -chose- death.
>
> Yes He did.
>
> > We have a hard enough time interpreting the Ten Commandments.
> > Let's stick to those.

> Now.. all that you have written about has been from the Book of
> Leviticus. Who was it written to. Under what circumstances was it
> written. Why was it written, and finally, is it relavent for today.

So we can decide what parts of the bible are relevent when we feel
like it?

;-)

I spent some time today reading about the ten commandments. Are you
aware how many times several of them have been modified since they came
off the mountain?

Wonder who was deciding what parts of which bible were relevent then?

Grumman-581

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 7:41:31 PM2/23/05
to
"TonyP" wrote ...

> No bus are train or gun or building or pill seeks "you" out to kill you.

Trees do though... As every snow skier knows, of course... They're nasty
little bastards... Funny how they can move so quickly considering they're
made out of wood and are supposed to be anchored into the rocks by those
root thingies... Don't believe me? Ask Sonny Bono or Michael Kennedy... Oh,
wait a minute... You can't... Those damn trees sought 'em out and killed
'em... Fuckin' murderin' overgrown toothpicks...


Lee Bell

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 8:13:55 PM2/23/05
to
> Most if not all large-scale organized religions apparently have a
> problem with "screwing one's brain out".

Only because all large scale profits chose another path.

> OTOH it sounds like a recipe for success if you want to establish a
> small church or sect (especially from the guru's point of view).
> For some reasons it seems that these things do not scale well.

Hmmm, didn't the terrorists look forward to 7 virgins in the afterlife?
What do you suppose they planned to do with them? Isn't Islam a large scale
organized religion?

Lee


Lee Bell

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 8:14:49 PM2/23/05
to
>> Topic 2: Risking your own life to safe that of another is laudable.
>> Doing
>> it when you know it will cost you your life may also be laudable, but
>> it's
>> still suicide.
>
> not quite.
>
> suicide is killing yourself.
> to kill yourself must be the primary goal.

Opinions differ.

Lee


Lee Bell

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 8:19:46 PM2/23/05
to
> The earthly flesh died. The spirit doesn't.

Whether you believe or don't, that's what we call dead.

> He chose to lay down his life as a sacrifice so that others can live.

Ummm, no. To the best of my knowledge, others living or dying wasn't part
of the deal. Traditional Christians like to believe that he died for our
sins and through him, we are saved, but it isn't our lives that are saved.
It is our souls and only after we're dead.

> The people sought him out. No bus are train or gun or building or pill
> seeks "you" out to kill you.

To hear the (anti) gun nuts tell it, guns are seeking everybody out to kill
them.

Lee


Greg Mossman

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 6:03:28 PM2/23/05
to
"Popeye" <Buzcu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1109199206.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

> "It's ironic how alike Black and Thompson were"

Having heard both their voices, I do have to admit they sounded pretty
similar. And they were both bald. Could they possibly have been the same .
. . naw, forget about it.


Lee Bell

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 8:24:00 PM2/23/05
to
"TonyP" wrote

>> Topic 1: There are various kinds of suicide. You can do it yourself, or
>> you can do something you are pretty certain will result in your death.
>> Putting a .45 to your head and pulling the trigger is an example of the
>> first type. Attacking Grumman with a knife is an example of the latter.
>
> Yep... looking at Doug, I would have to say the same.

Actually, we know the answer to this one. It's no. Somebody did just that,
attacked Doug with a knife. She's still alive.

>> Topic 2: Risking your own life to safe that of another is laudable.
>> Doing it when you know it will cost you your life may also be laudable,
>> but it's still suicide. Doing it on a cross, to save a soul that you, as
>> one of the three aspects of GOD could have saved simply by willing it to
>> be so, is kind of crazy.
>
> No not crazy. You would have to have a further understanding of the why's
> for the death of Christ.

Yes, but that ain't gonna happen in this life. God works in mysterious ways
and that certainly was one of them.

>> Topic 3: While it's nice to talk about the love of a person that lays his
>> life down for another, my personal preference is to ensure it's somebody
>> else's life I lay down for my friend. I think it was Patton that said
>> something like, "our goal is not to die for our country, but to cause the
>> enemy to die for his."
>
> Yep... but if I had to rush in to save my family at my expense, I would. I
> am sure you would do the same.

I think so, but one does not know until the opportunity presents itself.
Those that rusn in aren't around to tell us if they would, given another
chance, do it again.

Lee


Grumman-581

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 8:44:36 PM2/23/05
to
"Lee Bell" wrote ...

> Actually, we know the answer to this one. It's no. Somebody did just
that,
> attacked Doug with a knife. She's still alive.

Interesting coincidence... One of Grace's sisters attacked me with a meat
clever quite a few years back... She's still alive too... For some reason,
she doesn't act so crazy around me anymore...

Scott

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 9:13:14 PM2/23/05
to
"Popeye" <Buzcu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1109203361....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> I spent some time today reading about the ten commandments. Are you
> aware how many times several of them have been modified since they came
> off the mountain?

And who is to say that there werent 20 commandments, as Shel Silverstein
proposed.

Joe English

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 9:32:25 PM2/23/05
to
we just had a real estate developer from St. Louis hit a tree last week
skiing in Colorado who met the same fate.

Alan Street

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 9:39:53 PM2/23/05
to
In article <SuaTd.18180$G67...@fe03.lga>, Grumman-581
<grumman58...@charter.net> wrote:

€ "Lee Bell" wrote ...



But did you start dating her?

Greg Mossman

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 9:47:10 PM2/23/05
to
"Scott" <pugetso...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%FaTd.58$EL2....@news.uswest.net...

> "Popeye" <Buzcu...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1109203361....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>> I spent some time today reading about the ten commandments. Are you
>> aware how many times several of them have been modified since they came
>> off the mountain?
>
> And who is to say that there werent 20 commandments, as Shel Silverstein
> proposed.

Cite? And not because I disbelieve you or disagree (for once), but I'm
curious what Shel had in mind as one of Playboy's greatest authors.


Scott

unread,
Feb 23, 2005, 10:47:57 PM2/23/05
to
"Alan Street" <agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:230220051839530435%agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com...

> But did you start dating her?

You need to have a bit more information in order to understand the
intricacies of the Marine Mating Ritual, or MMR.

One of my favorite ex's knee'd me in the groin on our first date, and we
made it for 3 long years. I fell madly in bed with her.

It wasn't until I pimp-slapped her dad that things went bad.

Plus, it is just a dirty sin to cull pussy.

'Specially when you aint married or otherwise encumbered.

Crownfield

unread,
Feb 24, 2005, 12:01:49 AM2/24/05
to

So, by your rules, I can accidentally commit suicide?


>
> Lee

Alan Street

unread,
Feb 24, 2005, 12:13:18 AM2/24/05
to
In article <L2cTd.67$9c5....@news.uswest.net>, Scott
<pugetso...@gmail.com> wrote:

€ "Alan Street" <agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com> wrote in message



I welcome the day you can explain this to me in person. Ideally over
the passage of a bottle of Don Julio (I'll buy).

Alan

Grumman-581

unread,
Feb 24, 2005, 1:01:29 AM2/24/05
to
"Alan Street" wrote ...

> But did you start dating her?

Nooooo... I'm afraid that sheep might look rather enticing if she was the
only human choice... It's not her looks, it's what is between her ears... I
think that she is proof that ear wax can develop a rudimentary form of
neuron activity... She just doesn't think (and I'm using that term rather
loosely) like "normal" folks... Even allowing a wide range of what might be
considered "normal", she still doesn't pass muster... I took the cleaver
away from her and made her mother come to my house to retrieve it... At that
time, she was in her late 40s, still single, and living with her mother...
Hell, I was over there to do some sheetrock repair anyway, so it's not like
I actually wanted to be there in the first place...


Dennis (Icarus)

unread,
Feb 24, 2005, 7:04:38 AM2/24/05
to
"The Religious Right is Neither" <TONYIS AN ID...@jesusisdead.com> wrote in
message news:qsUSd.29493$Tj7....@twister.socal.rr.com...
>
> "TonyP" <arpi...@Hooptonline.net> wrote in message
> news:WqSSd.7833$Dg7....@fe11.lga...
> >
> > I hate to disappoint you Greg (I know you are still smarting over your
$50
> > loss/contibution), but it was a typo on my part. Never type and argue
with
> > your kid at the same time.
>
> OH GOD! You've been breeding?!
>
> Bad! Very bad!
>
> You have neither the intellect nor moral values to be raising children.
We
> need no more of you. Look at how f*cked up the world is already. And
just
> why is that?...
>
>

Taken a good look in the mirror, lately?

Dennis

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