Divemaster exam
CB
Thank you
Chris
Robert Wood
Si vous devez tricher, vous ne valez rien.
--
[\] Robert Wood
Le fleuve St. Laurent - plongee correct
2 Million gates, bah, humbug.
mailto:rw...@spacebridge.com
Larry Lozuk
"CB" <christian...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:8rnhtr$jl3$1...@wanadoo.fr...
SFM
>
> Does anyone know where to get the answers to the final exam quizz ?
> Thank you
> Chris
Two places:
1. They are all in the study materials
2. My Instructor manual
--
---------------------------------------
Scott Migaldi
PADI MSDT 150972
TRA L1 7927
Home page: http://user.mc.net/~millie1
Bob Crownfield
>
> All the answers for mine were in the study materials.
And thus you win "The Laugh of the Day Award"
>
> "CB" <christian...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
> news:8rnhtr$jl3$1...@wanadoo.fr...
> > Does anyone know where to get the answers to the final exam quizz ?
> > Thank you
> > Chris
> >
> >
--
Bob Crownfield, Crown...@Home.com
Photography, Flying, Delphi Rad Addict
Now diving the Pacific in the LA Area.
"Protect freedoms before they become extinct."
Mike Painter
"CB" <christian...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:8rnhtr$jl3$1...@wanadoo.fr...
> Does anyone know where to get the answers to the final exam quizz ?
> Thank you
> Chris
Those other guys are being mean to you.
Send me $50.00 cash and the name(s) of the people you will be taking the
exam from. I will help you.
I'm sure others would too if they knew that their divemaster cheated on an
exam.
gymnastcraig
NIPONSCUBA
JA
Jammer Six
<christian...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>€ Does anyone know where to get the answers to the final exam quizz ?
The answer is "Starbuck's".
--
"C'mon, you sons of bitches, you want to live forever?"
-Sergeant Major Dan Daly
Icarus (Dennis)
matter of fact.
Have I been cheated, or am I just diving in the wrong areas?
Dennis
Jammer Six <jam...@oz.net> wrote in message
news:8rnrfr$e6d$1...@216.39.130.142...
> In article <8rnhtr$jl3$1...@wanadoo.fr>, CB
> <christian...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
> >? Does anyone know where to get the answers to the final exam quizz ?
Capt Jim Wyatt
>Chris
You took the Divemaster course to become a leader of divers or as a step
toward becoming an instructor. Either way you took it as a "diving
leadership" course.
In order to be the best diving leader you can be you no doubt want to have
the most knowledge and experience you can get.
Now with that said, let me suggest that the best way to get those answers
is to read your Divemaster Manual again. Don't cheat yourself nor the
people who may one day be under your supervision in the water.
--
Captain Jim Wyatt
PADI Master Instructor #4612
Florida Keys Reef-Divers
http://reef-divers.com
Ben Bradlee
times to jar them loose.
"CB" <christian...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:8rnhtr$jl3$1...@wanadoo.fr...
Miranda Alldritt
> of the world's diving, the divemaster can make or break a dive, and be
> the difference between a safe dive and trip to the chamber.
That's a very sad statement about the people doing the dive. I agree that
in some places, having a local who knows the area to dive with can really
enhance your experience of a dive site but ... needing a DM around to keep
you safe?!? yikes! What ever happened to doing dives within your comfort
zone and slowly building up experience?
Miranda
Steve Kramer
>
> Does anyone know where to get the answers to the final exam quizz ?
> Thank you
> Chris
All the answers are in the various manuals that you used during your
course. Study them. Do the sample quizzes at the end of the chapters,
learn the material. If your goal is to become a good divemaster, then it
is your responsibility to know the REASONS for those answers, not just
the answers themselves. Anything less would be a gross failure on your
part, and unfair to the people who's lives are under your direction and
care. Perhaps in some parts of the world, a divemaster needs only know
how to carry tanks, and sit on the dive deck looking pretty, but in most
of the world's diving, the divemaster can make or break a dive, and be
the difference between a safe dive and trip to the chamber.
Steve Kramer
Osaka, Japan
Two years, one month, two weeks, three days, 2 hours, 35 minutes and 9
seconds. 23373 cigarettes not smoked, saving $4,090.32. Life used for a
better purpose: 11 weeks, 4 days, 3 hours, 45 minutes.
--
I wish to live my life deliberately, to front the essential facts
of life; to suck the very marrow of life and see if I can learn what it
has to teach, and not, when it comes my time to die, discover that I
have not lived.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Jammer Six
Dennis <nojun...@ever.invalid> wrote:
>€ Have I been cheated, or am I just diving in the wrong areas?
You've been cheated.
Jammer Six
<j...@reef-divers.com> wrote:
>€ Don't cheat yourself nor the people who may one day be under your
>€ supervision in the water.
Why should he be any different?
No one supervises my dives, "Captain".
But then, we've already established that your boat is a boat to avoid,
haven't we? You are, in fact, one of the "captains" that NEEDS a DM,
aren't you?
Clifford Beshers
>
> But then, we've already established that your boat is a boat to avoid,
> haven't we? You are, in fact, one of the "captains" that NEEDS a DM,
> aren't you?
We did? When? Why?
I have only seen positive reports from Jim's operation. Explain
yourself or I'll revolt in limerick form.
________________
Clifford Beshers
Steve Kramer
>
> > in most
> > of the world's diving, the divemaster can make or break a dive, and be
> > the difference between a safe dive and trip to the chamber.
>
> in some places, having a local who knows the area to dive with can really
> enhance your experience of a dive site but ... needing a DM around to keep
> you safe?!?
YES! A very sad statement about people doing the dive. But the majority
of world divers are of the 'once or twice a year vacation divers,' and
they need special help to insure a safe dive trip. It is part of a DM's
job description to see to that. They are NOT the divers like you and I,
who may make several hundred dives a year, paying attention to new
methods, new techniques, new equipment, nor paying attention to any
other facet of diving except 'it's part of the vacation package, Martha.
Don't forgit yer goggles!'
I didn't say that a DM 'keeps you safe.' Those are your words. MY words
were that a DM can be "the difference between a safe dive and trip to
the chamber." We've all seen trips where the DM never bothered to do a
dive site briefing. We've all seen trips where the DM couldn't establish
good buddy-ups. And we've all seen trips where the DM stayed on board
when they should have been in the water. (Not to imply this needs be the
case on every dive.) All three can be the difference between a safe dive
and a trip to the chamber.
> What ever happened to doing dives within your comfort
> zone and slowly building up experience?
A great theory. A wonderful practice. But for many, just words in an
Open Water text book. I may do it. You may do it. Those we usually
prefer to dive with may do it. That's why we dive with them. But the
boatload from Club Med might not. Nor the group taking a one-day dive
excursion during their Princess Cruise of the Carib. They NEED the DM to
help insure a safe trip.
Steve Kramer
Osaka, Japan
Two years, one month, two weeks, three days, 9 hours, 9 minutes and 55
seconds. 23381 cigarettes not smoked, saving $4,091.75. Life used for a
better purpose: 11 weeks, 4 days, 4 hours, 25 minutes.
H NED Huntzinger
>
> Miranda Alldritt wrote:
> >
> > > in most
> > > of the world's diving, the divemaster can make or break a dive, and be
> > > the difference between a safe dive and trip to the chamber.
> >
> > That's a very sad statement about the people doing the dive. I agree that
> > in some places, having a local who knows the area to dive with can really
> > enhance your experience of a dive site but ... needing a DM around to keep
> > you safe?!?
>
> YES! A very sad statement about people doing the dive. But the majority
> of world divers are of the 'once or twice a year vacation divers,' and
> they need special help to insure a safe dive trip. It is part of a DM's
> job description to see to that.
IMO, this deficiency starts in OW-I training: it is not all that hard
to teach someone the basics in a manner that they're going to be able to
remember them in ~6 months, although it does cost a bit more.
The dive travel industry then perpetuates this "baby-walking" by having
a bevy of DM's onboard every cattleboat. Yeah, one can argue that its
good customer service and all that, but its really nothing more than a
waterlogged bandaid trying to prevent known safety gaps from hemmoraging
out of control.
> I didn't say that a DM 'keeps you safe.' Those are your words. MY words
> were that a DM can be "the difference between a safe dive and trip to
> the chamber." We've all seen trips where the DM never bothered to do a
> dive site briefing. We've all seen trips where the DM couldn't establish
> good buddy-ups. And we've all seen trips where the DM stayed on board
> when they should have been in the water. (Not to imply this needs be the
> case on every dive.) All three can be the difference between a safe dive
> and a trip to the chamber.
Good point & acute differentiation. But FWIW, considering the fact
that I've now seen *two* Instructors who were officially certified to
teach Nitrox come up from a dive and ask: "what is this "5% OXTOX" on
the display of my [Nitrox] dive computer mean?", I'm pretty well
convinced the system is broke and I'm getting to the point where the
only teachers that I can trust are me, myself and I.
-hh
Capt Jim Wyatt
for substandard or poorly trained divers. We send them in the water to act as a
guide to show people the best parts of the dive site or to guide them around a
shipwreck.
The divemaster employed as such should have dived the site numerous times and
knows the best areas on the reef or wreck they should know whether or not to
expect any current, or know local rules and regulations regarding the site and
pass that information on to the divers. They must be able to assist the divers
in planning the dive in terms of depth, no decompression limits, visibility,
and potential hazards for that site.
This puts the "divemaster" in a leadership role. I would expect that the
divemaster while leading a tour remain cognizant of how the dive is going. How
individuals are doing and to be able to decide if individual divers are going
to make it through the planned tour based on their air consumption, comfort
level and general demeanor while they're diving. A properly trained divemaster
can tell by watching if a diver is having a difficult time.
We also realize that many of the divers who are diving with us do not need
or want the services of a divemaster and we give those divers the option of
diving with a divemaster or not. We never charge extra for that service.
PADI divemasters are qualified to conduct the underwater tour portions of Open
Water or SCUBA diver students independent of an instructor on dives 2, 3 and 4
at a ratio of 2 students per divemaster. The divemasters are qualified to
escort divers on subsequent dives after the diver has completed one dive past
the "Discover SCUBA" experience (resort course). This is a VERY serious
responsibility in that these divers only have been trained in the skills of
Open Water dive #1.
PADI Divemasters are qualified to conduct the "Discover Local diving"
experience independent of an instructor.
There are many other duties of the divemaster as well. These are clearly
defined in the PADI Divemaster Manual.
It is because of these duties that you, as the divemaster candidate, do not
want to take shortcuts to your certification. The more you learn the better
prepared you will be to properly perform these duties and make the dive
experience a positive one for your divers.
BuoyantC
all know that is a huge variable. There is and always will be a place for good
DM's.
With the growth in numbers of divers at popular dive sites, DM's are as
necessary as park rangers and event staff.
If you don't want to be around DM's, dive where no one else wants to or
can get to, but don't pick on (good)Dive Masters.
D.C.C.
Steve Kramer
> IMO, this deficiency starts in OW-I training: it is not all that hard
> to teach someone the basics in a manner that they're going to be able to
> remember them in ~6 months, although it does cost a bit more.
In a perfect world, that would be true. But this one just ain't perfect!
I'd love to see the educational level reach the point where no one
forgets anything. But like basketball or skiing or diving; if you don't
practice often, you forget a lot. A longer class would help, but without
practice, people will forget.
> The dive travel industry then perpetuates this "baby-walking" by having
> a bevy of DM's onboard every cattleboat. Yeah, one can argue that its
> good customer service and all that, but its really nothing more than a
> waterlogged bandaid trying to prevent known safety gaps from hemmoraging
> out of control.
Got a more workable solution? I sure don't. Not for the couple who get
certified in Coz during a 3-day course, made two dives there the next
day, then didn't dive again until two years later when they took a
cruise to the Bahamas and made a single day's two-tank dive. Should we
forbid them to dive? Or insist on renewing C-cards every year? Some
states are seeking to make drivers license tests an every three year
requirement. Do we need the same sort of thing for diving too?
Personally, I don't want to see more legislation. I am all for more
extensive initial training, and even mandatory secondary training, but
that doesn't cover the problem of the vacation diver. It just eliminates
them from the equation.
> I'm pretty well
> convinced the system is broke and I'm getting to the point where the
> only teachers that I can trust are me, myself and I.
I think we've ALL reached the point where we know the only one we can
really trust is ourselves. And anyone involved in any form of education
knows the dangers of the term 'teacher.' As one for the past 30 odd
years, I've seen plenty I wouldn't dignify with the name, and plenty
more who where more than deserving of it. The hard part is to make that
distinction BEFORE you enter the class.
Steve Kramer
Osaka, Japan
Two years, one month, two weeks, three days, 17 hours, 32 minutes and 24
seconds. 23391 cigarettes not smoked, saving $4,093.59. Life used for a
better purpose: 11 weeks, 4 days, 5 hours, 15 minutes.
Steve Kramer
>
> When we utilize "divemasters" we do not send them in the water as babysitters
> for substandard or poorly trained divers. We send them in the water to act as a
> guide to show people the best parts of the dive site or to guide them around a
> shipwreck.
5 years ago, I spent a week diving Key Largo with my son, and a week
diving Key West with my wife. We dove 6 days in each area, two tanks a
day, and never had a divemaster in the water with us. We never had any
guides for any of the dives.
We enjoyed our time together, and enjoyed being in the water, and as we
are all fairly experienced, had safe dives. But not knowing the sites at
all, and getting minimal pre-dive briefings, we really didn't see much
of anything out of the ordinary. So much so that we've never dived the
Keys again, despite having returned to south Florida a couple of times
since. After 12 days of diving in two different areas there, we just
figured it wasn't worth lugging out gear out for what we saw. The
rewards weren't worth the effort.
But it sounds as if you run a very different boat, Capt. Jim. It sounds
as if you run the sort of boat dives where we tourists can get to see
just what makes each area so special. THAT'S what we want in a dive. We
can get wet anywhere. We want to SEE the things that make a site unique.
We like a guided tour! So if you don't mind, we'd like to try a couple
of days of diving with you the next time we're in the area. We'll phone
ahead for reservations.
Steve Kramer
Osaka, Japan
Two years, one month, two weeks, three days, 17 hours, 46 minutes and 20
seconds. 23392 cigarettes not smoked, saving $4,093.64. Life used for a
better purpose: 11 weeks, 4 days, 5 hours, 20 minutes.
Bob D.
Chris,
And you presume this exam is administered to test what, your ability to avoid
study, personal development or any effort to learn by finding an answer key?
Mike Painter
"H NED Huntzinger" <{rm_to_reply}hum...@webspan.net> wrote in message
news:39E06F...@webspan.net...
> Steve Kramer wrote:
> IMO, this deficiency starts in OW-I training: it is not all that hard
> to teach someone the basics in a manner that they're going to be able to
> remember them in ~6 months, although it does cost a bit more.
>
To equate "remember them in ~6 months" with cost or length as another post
does shows at best little thought about the problem.
4 hours or 40. $10.00 or $1000.00 at the end you have to test them and
unless you followthem around with a camera for the next 50 dives you will
never know if they remembered.
It also implies that you are thinking about teaching classes. A good
instructor teaches *people* and much of that time that is done one-on-one.
If he or she has team taught then some times the teaching is done two on
one. (You hold him down and I'll get the regulator does come up now and
then.)
The most you can *ever* do is not certify until you feel the student has
learned what is needed.
With the tools and theory available today I'd bet a nickel that 90% of
today's students have a better level of performance after today's "short"
courses then they did after the 40 classroom and 40 pool hours of my basic
class.
CB
> Chris
>
> I did not mean to create such turmoil.
I do not have a problem with questions regarding physics physiology or
other matters regarding practical diving knowledge.
I just find some questions concerning the role of the DM subjective and
sometimes quite impossible to understand especially when translated from
English.
Chris
Capt Jim Wyatt
We would be very pleased to go diving with you here in the Keys.
One of the issues that many, if not all resort areas struggle with is the
"get it now" attitude toward visitors to these areas. I have worked in the
diving tourism industry in the Caribbean, Hawaii and here in the Keys.
One of the common denominators is the attitude that many of the operators
have toward visitors (often termed "damned tourists") by all too many of
the people who are making their living from the tourism industry. I see
bumper stickers on vehicles here that say "Save the Keys--Blow the bridges"
and "Florida Keys-You have seen it now go home". ALL of these people, in
one way or another depend on tourism economically, whether it be directly
or indirectly. But they hold a certain disdain for the very people that
fuel their economy. It has eluded me for 20 years how people could feel
this way.
I "think" one way to choose a good dive operator is to call them and talk
to them, at length. They should have a toll free number, if they don't then
that reflects an attitude. Ask them questions about the operation, about
the boat, the shop, and the dive sites. Pin them down on prices, ensure
there are no "hidden" prices.
Many operators offer a $30 -- 2 tank dive, but the price does not include
tanks or weights. Others offer a $99 scuba class and it does not include
boat trips, gear nor textbooks and educational support materials. Many who
rely on these prices are shocked once they arrive at their chosen dive
facility and realize that the price is much higher. These people, in my
humble opinion are taking advantage of the situation. In the end they get
very little repeat business because they are left with a bad taste in their
mouths.
Jammer Six
<buoy...@aol.com> wrote:
>€ With the growth in numbers of divers at popular dive sites, DM's are as
>€ necessary as park rangers and event staff.
Bullshit. The finest boats in the business don't have them.
>€ If you don't want to be around DM's, dive where no one else wants to or
>€ can get to, but don't pick on (good)Dive Masters.
Expand your horizons, stroke.
Dive off a boat that is run well enough that is doesn't NEED DM's.
Jammer Six
<j...@reef-divers.com> wrote:
>€ We also realize that many of the divers who are diving with us do not need
>€ or want the services of a divemaster and we give those divers the option of
>€ diving with a divemaster or not. We never charge extra for that service.
If you want to stay in business, you better start.
You better put the cost of your DM under either "Overhead" or "Cost of
Goods", and add a portion of the cost to each ticket.
In this way, those of us who don't want or need DM's do in fact pay
extra for the service.
It's beginning to sound to me like you're having trouble with the
business end of running a boat, too...
Jammer Six
<j...@reef-divers.com> wrote:
>€ One of the common denominators is the attitude that many of the operators
>€ have toward visitors (often termed "damned tourists") by all too many of
>€ the people who are making their living from the tourism industry.
Gee, Jim, that's not the term you used last time...
James Connell
make beaches public as well) who said " Welcome to Oregon - Don't stay"
- Tom McCall
Capt Jim Wyatt wrote:
<snip>
> I see bumper stickers on vehicles here that say <snip> "Florida> Keys-You have seen it now go home".
<snip>
> Captain Jim Wyatt
> PADI Master Instructor #4612
> Florida Keys Reef-Divers
> http://reef-divers.com
--
James Connell
Do not Fold, Spindle, or Mutilate.
The opinions expressed herein do not necessarily
reflect those of the author.
Mike Gray
>
> If you want to stay in business, you better start.
>
> You better put the cost of your DM under either "Overhead" or "Cost of
> Goods", and add a portion of the cost to each ticket.
>
> In this way, those of us who don't want or need DM's do in fact pay
> extra for the service.
>
> It's beginning to sound to me like you're having trouble with the
> business end of running a boat, too...
Yer biases are running ahead of yer brain.
The Coast Guard requires boats carrying 7 or more charter to have crew.
A DM costs no more than any other crew, often less.
So for the same cost (or less), ya might as well have someone that can
get ya coffee.
m
Tony
Clifford Beshers wrote in message ...
>Jammer Six <jam...@oz.net> writes:
>>
>> But then, we've already established that your boat is a boat to avoid,
>> haven't we? You are, in fact, one of the "captains" that NEEDS a DM,
>> aren't you?
>
>We did? When? Why?
Don't mind the "we". Multiple personalities....
Tony
Steve Kramer wrote in message <39E0F5FC...@osb.att.ne.jp>...
>Jammer Six wrote:
>>
>> In article <8FC797D80jim....@207.217.77.21>, Capt Jim Wyatt
>> <j...@reef-divers.com> wrote:
>>
>> >€ One of the common denominators is the attitude that many of the
operators
>> >€ have toward visitors (often termed "damned tourists") by all too many
of
>> >€ the people who are making their living from the tourism industry.
>>
>> Gee, Jim, that's not the term you used last time...
>
>certain disdain for the very people that fuel their economy. It has
>eluded me for 20 years how people could feel this way."
>
>your lips get tired?
Nah.... he runs out of brain cells for memory retention....
Miranda Alldritt
>
> > Dive off a boat that is run well enough that is doesn't NEED DM's.
>
> divemasters, is most likely because you are not ALLOWED on regularly
> scheduled dive boats that have them, and have to charter your own each
> time.
Actually, it's pretty rare to have a DM on a charter in BC. I've been on a
few that did but they were larger boats and the DM was mostly there to
organize things topside. I've also been on shop trips where there was a DM
from the shop along but again, mostly to organize things. I've never seen
one get involved with anyone else's dive here.
In Australia, I was on a few boats where we all had to dive as a group with
the DM leading things. I certainly didn't find that a very comfortable
situation. Guess I just like being more in control <g>
Miranda
Steve Kramer
> Bullshit. The finest boats in the business don't have them.
Lyle, rowboats and Zodiacs are NOT the finest boats.
> Expand your horizons, stroke.
This from the man who thinks a 'passport' is something you use to get
discounts at Wal-Mart.
> Dive off a boat that is run well enough that is doesn't NEED DM's.
Lyle, the only reason that you dive (twice a year) on boats without
divemasters, is most likely because you are not ALLOWED on regularly
scheduled dive boats that have them, and have to charter your own each
time. What shop would allow you to dive with them a second time?
Certainly no DM would want to go along, nor other rational sentient
beings either. The only reason your dog follows you is because you tie a
bone to your suspenders. Besides, haven't you been blacklisted from
every other dive shop in the Puget Sound area.
Steve Kramer
Osaka, Japan
Two years, one month, two weeks, four days, 1 hour, 16 minutes and 42
seconds. 23401 cigarettes not smoked, saving $4,095.28. Life used for a
better purpose: 11 weeks, 4 days, 6 hours, 5 minutes.
Steve Kramer
>
> In article <8FC797D80jim....@207.217.77.21>, Capt Jim Wyatt
> <j...@reef-divers.com> wrote:
>
> >€ One of the common denominators is the attitude that many of the operators
> >€ have toward visitors (often termed "damned tourists") by all too many of
> >€ the people who are making their living from the tourism industry.
>
> Gee, Jim, that's not the term you used last time...
... which probably explains why he went on to say " ...they hold a
certain disdain for the very people that fuel their economy. It has
eluded me for 20 years how people could feel this way."
Lyle, you need to learn to read the WHOLE post before you answer. Do
your lips get tired?
Steve Kramer
Osaka, Japan
Two years, one month, two weeks, four days, 1 hour, 32 minutes and 2
seconds. 23401 cigarettes not smoked, saving $4,095.34. Life used for a
better purpose: 11 weeks, 4 days, 6 hours, 5 minutes.
Steve Kramer
> Many operators offer a $30 -- 2 tank dive, but the price does not include
> tanks or weights. Others offer a $99 scuba class and it does not include
> boat trips, gear nor textbooks and educational support materials.
In Osaka, the average cost for a PADI Open Water course is $500. This
does NOT include boat trips (another $300) gear (you MUST purchase your
own wetsuit, mask, fins, gloves, and a BCD is 'recommended' at the same
time. Which explains all the 'color coordinated' Japanese divers you see
so often!) Textbooks ARE included...
Just for the record, the cost for renewing divemaster with PADI-Japan is
$200...
Steve Kramer
Osaka, Japan
Two years, one month, two weeks, four days, 1 hour, 59 minutes and 43
seconds. 23402 cigarettes not smoked, saving $4,095.43. Life used for a
better purpose: 11 weeks, 4 days, 6 hours, 10 minutes.
Glawackus
>this is plagarized from the Great Oregon governer (who had the wisdom to
>make beaches public as well) who said " Welcome to Oregon - Don't stay"
>- Tom McCall
Are you sure he didn't get it from the bumper stickers that say "Welcome to
Vermont. Don't Forget To Go Home"? Stuff like that has probably been around
since about a week after there were tourists. And let's be honest about it.
Just because they spend lots of money doesn't mean that a substantial
percentage of them aren't a damn pain in the ass to have around.
Steve
The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. Or it might just be to
generate discussion.
Steve Kramer
>
> Clifford Beshers wrote in message ...
> >>
> >> But then, we've already established that your boat is a boat to avoid,
> >> haven't we? You are, in fact, one of the "captains" that NEEDS a DM,
> >> aren't you?
> >
> >We did? When? Why?
>
Is THAT the 'Sybil' that the dork was talking about? Jammer messed with
his webpage? Nah... He's not clever enough.
Steve Kramer
Osaka, Japan
Two years, one month, two weeks, four days, 11 hours, 13 minutes and 8
seconds. 23414 cigarettes not smoked, saving $4,097.45. Life used for a
better purpose: 11 weeks, 4 days, 7 hours, 10 minutes.
Steve Kramer
>
> >
> >
> > > Dive off a boat that is run well enough that is doesn't NEED DM's.
> >
> > Lyle, the only reason that you dive (twice a year) on boats without
> > divemasters, is most likely because you are not ALLOWED on regularly
> > scheduled dive boats that have them, and have to charter your own each
> > time.
>
That's what I said. If he's not permitted to dive with shop boats, he'd
have to charter his own. Therefore, no divemaster.
> In Australia, I was on a few boats where we all had to dive as a group with
> the DM leading things. I certainly didn't find that a very comfortable
> situation. Guess I just like being more in control
While that does happen at times, more often than not when the DM
realizes that there are experienced divers in the group, they let them
have the choice of diving by themselves, or joining the group.
Did you try explaining to the divemaster that you and your buddy
preferred to dive without the group? That often works well. DM's
certainly would prefer smaller groups to watch over than larger.
Although I prefer to dive behind a good DM when I'm diving a site for
the first time, after that, I usually request that my wife and I be
allowed to follow our own profiles. So far, we've only been turned down
a few times in the past, and usually with an explanation that sounded
pretty plausible to us, so we didn't mind.
Steve Kramer
Osaka, Japan
Two years, one month, two weeks, four days, 11 hours, 23 minutes and 57
seconds. 23414 cigarettes not smoked, saving $4,097.49. Life used for a
better purpose: 11 weeks, 4 days, 7 hours, 10 minutes.
Paul Schilter
the same coin.
"Whack" - there!
"Jammer Six" <jam...@oz.net> wrote in message
news:8rqnpm$tm$3...@216.39.130.210...
> In article <8FC768D60jim....@207.217.77.24>, Capt Jim Wyatt
> <j...@reef-divers.com> wrote:
>
> >? We also realize that many of the divers who are diving with us do not
need
> >? or want the services of a divemaster and we give those divers the
option of
> >? diving with a divemaster or not. We never charge extra for that
service.
>
> If you want to stay in business, you better start.
>
> You better put the cost of your DM under either "Overhead" or "Cost of
> Goods", and add a portion of the cost to each ticket.
>
> In this way, those of us who don't want or need DM's do in fact pay
> extra for the service.
>
> It's beginning to sound to me like you're having trouble with the
> business end of running a boat, too...
>
Brian Wagner
>
> With the tools and theory available today I'd bet a nickel that 90% of
> today's students have a better level of performance after today's "short"
> courses then they did after the 40 classroom and 40 pool hours of my basic
> class.
Simple observation says you'd lose 5 cents.
H NED Huntzinger
>
> "H NED Huntzinger" <{rm_to_reply}hum...@webspan.net> wrote in message
> news:39E06F...@webspan.net...
> > Steve Kramer wrote:
> > IMO, this deficiency starts in OW-I training: it is not all that hard
> > to teach someone the basics in a manner that they're going to be able to
> > remember them in ~6 months, although it does cost a bit more.
> >
>
> To equate "remember them in ~6 months" with cost or length as another post
> does shows at best little thought about the problem.
Actually, I suggest that you do some library research on the science of
memory retention and learning. Focus on repetition and the optimization
patterns for the same: one of the things that you'll find is that the
same number of learning hours and repetitions spread over more than
merely a long weekend significantly improves overall retention.
> 4 hours or 40. $10.00 or $1000.00 at the end you have to test them and
> unless you followthem around with a camera for the next 50 dives you will
> never know if they remembered.
Not the question at hand. I realize that we're not going to ever have
100% retention. The problem is that if we know that a diver needs to
know a certain minimum, if the minimum is all that we teach, as soon as
his retention drops to 99%, he's now below the bar. The solution to
this is to teach more than the absolute minimum (simplistically, 125%),
so that after retention loss occurs, he still has ~101% of what he
really needs to know. For example, for a couple of hundred hours, a
score of dives and a few $K, we could string together all of the
training up through Rescue Diver. The question is if ~6 months later,
this type of individual will be a better diver than an OW-I "weekend
special". The answer is obvious.
> With the tools and theory available today I'd bet a nickel that 90% of
> today's students have a better level of performance after today's "short"
> courses then they did after the 40 classroom and 40 pool hours of my basic
> class.
I'm personally doubtful, but isn't it a more interesting question to ask
what it is that you get if you combine the modern tools & theory with
your 80 hours of instruction?
In any event, perhaps we can ask Harris if he's ever baselined the
performance of his past students versus the "industry average".
-hh
H NED Huntzinger
>
> Come on. Everyone should strive to be the best diver they can be, but we all
> know that is a huge variable. There is and always will be a place for good DM's.
So....how long have you been a DM?
Not that it matters: you missed my point entirely. Over the past
decade in particular, we have allowed a culture of dependency to be
established in diving and the existence of that dependency is what is
dangerous: if we summarize DMs simplistically as lifeguards, then it is
sufficient to point out that no DM, no matter how good they are, can
ever be in 2 places at once.
The root of the problem lies not in the overall variability of divers,
but in the additional variability that has been allowed at the bottom of
the scale. Look at how we have a debate this month on the necessity of
even knowing how to swim!!
> With the growth in numbers of divers at popular dive sites, DM's are as
> necessary as park rangers and event staff.
I agree that having a good divesite briefing is a good thing, but this
"growth" bit is a red herring: safety has nothing to do with industry
growth, except cynically how it has gotten in the way. Sites in
popular areas get permanent moorings, so the dive briefing could, if we
so desired, be automated into a videotape or something, thus doing away
with that job responsibility.
Overall, the typical resort DM is often nothing more than a combination
of a 1st Mate for the Captain to help handle lines, to haul & setup
gear, to have enough common sense to do a headcount, and to be a Red
Cross Lifeguard on bubblewatch, even though he probably hasn't been
tested on that last skill since he received his original certification.
> If you don't want to be around DM's, dive where no one else wants to or
> can get to, but don't pick on (good)Dive Masters.
I'm not picking on good DM's...I'm picking on the reasons why we so
desparately need good DM's.
Part of the problem here is that the accidents-waiting-to-happen aren't
just restricted to new, OW-I novice divers: when I was being critical
of two individuals who didn't know their 24 clock from a hole in the
ground, heed carefully I was being critical of two _instructors_ who
were supposedly qualified to *teach* Nitrox. If this doesn't make your
blood chill, I don't know what will.
-hh
H NED Huntzinger
>
> H NED Huntzinger wrote:
>
> > IMO, this deficiency starts in OW-I training: it is not all that hard
> > to teach someone the basics in a manner that they're going to be able to
> > remember them in ~6 months, although it does cost a bit more.
>
> I'd love to see the educational level reach the point where no one
> forgets anything. But like basketball or skiing or diving; if you don't
> practice often, you forget a lot. A longer class would help, but without
> practice, people will forget.
How much you forget will depend on how much you originally learned. If
we teach people to be just barely competant by the end of class, by the
time a month has passed, they're going to be under that bar.
OTOH, if we teach them more than this absolute minimum, a month or
longer can pass and despite what they forget, they'll be above the bar.
Its like water evaportating from a bucket: if you want to make sure
that you have more than 1 gallon a month from now, starting with but a 1
gallon bucket is self-defeating.
> > The dive travel industry then perpetuates this "baby-walking" by having
> > a bevy of DM's onboard every cattleboat. Yeah, one can argue that its
> > good customer service and all that, but its really nothing more than a
> > waterlogged bandaid trying to prevent known safety gaps from hemmoraging
> > out of control.
>
> Got a more workable solution? I sure don't.
C-Cards with expiration dates would probably do it, as unpalatable as
this is for many.
Higher standards would also address much of the problem. Ditto for the
right mindset.
> Personally, I don't want to see more legislation. I am all for more
> extensive initial training, and even mandatory secondary training, but
> that doesn't cover the problem of the vacation diver. It just eliminates
> them from the equation.
The vacation diver can do a pool refresher before the trip, either
self-guided (which can be taught! :-), or pay a diveshop based
instructor for an hour or two. In fact, simply as a gear checkout,
they're foolish not to do a pre-trip checkout. And there can't be that
many places in the USA/Canada/Japan/UK/etc that are within 100 miles of
an airport that lack an indoor pool.
-hh
Tony
Miranda Alldritt wrote in message <39E14E3F...@paralynx.com>...
>Actually, it's pretty rare to have a DM on a charter in BC. I've been on a
>few that did but they were larger boats and the DM was mostly there to
>organize things topside. I've also been on shop trips where there was a DM
>from the shop along but again, mostly to organize things. I've never seen
>one get involved with anyone else's dive here.
>In Australia, I was on a few boats where we all had to dive as a group with
>the DM leading things. I certainly didn't find that a very comfortable
>situation. Guess I just like being more in control <g>
>
Miranda,
Here where I dive in the North East of USA (LI, NY, NJ), we don't have a DM
on the boat. There are DM's diving with us along with an istructor or 2, but
that is because there are there to dive.
When I dove in Florida, there was always a DM on board. The drift in West
Palm Beach (had a great dive there), the DM carried the float. In
Islamorada, there was a DM on board for those that wanted the "guided" tour.
I didn't, and basically dove solo. And in Jamaica, there was 2 DM's on
board. One for the more "mature" (reading older longer divers), and on for
the young divers with little experience. The "oldtimers" bottom time
exceeded the other group by at least 1/2hr. The DM's showed us all the grea
places of interest. And since part of the dive consisted of drift, the DM's
knew the current and where the boat would pick us up.
Jammer Six
<psch...@ford.com> wrote:
>€ Jammer, you and Black have a lot in common. Sort of like different sides of
>€ the same coin.
>€ "Whack" - there!
You missed.
We are amused.
Try again?
Mike Painter
"Brian Wagner" <bwa...@mr.marconimed.com> wrote in message
news:39E1BF9B...@mr.marconimed.com...
> Mike Painter wrote:
> >
> > With the tools and theory available today I'd bet a nickel that 90% of
> > today's students have a better level of performance after today's
"short"
> > courses then they did after the 40 classroom and 40 pool hours of my
basic
> > class.
>
Diving accidents, (even those that would not be classified as accidents if
in another sport.) vs number of divers would imply the opposite.
Brian Wagner
>
> Diving accidents, (even those that would not be classified as accidents if
> in another sport.) vs number of divers would imply the opposite.
Not necessarily. That's a common major fallacy that assumes the level
of competence of the divers is the only variable involved. Without even
getting into your failure to link number of divers to the number of
man-hours underwater, equipment, type and location of diving, and most
especially, level of supervision play a huge role. Anybody know of a
dive operation that, 15 years or more ago, made it standard policy not
to let customers (certified divers all) assemble their own gear?
SE
2-D
3-B
4-C
5-A
6-C
7-A
8-A
9-C
10-B
11-C
12-A
13-C
14-D
15-A
16-D
17-B
18-D
19-B
20-C
NE333RO
>2-D
>3-B
>4-C
>5-A
Hehehehehehehehe
Glawackus
>Anybody know of a
>dive operation that, 15 years or more ago, made it standard policy not
>to let customers (certified divers all) assemble their own gear?
I can't answer that, but below is an excerpt from the safety policy at
Tortuga Divers, which I saw while looking into plans for an u[pcoming trip.
They sure seem to have concerns that a lot of people lose it if they haven't
been diving fairly recently.
<<< 1. At date of arrival:
* If you have not dived for 6 months or longer (but not more than two
years)
* If you have never deep/wall dived before
* If you are newly certified or if you are very inexperienced
You will be required to do one of the following before being allowed
out on the wall:
* Attend the Sunday afternoon orientation dive, OR
* Go out on the double shallow dive boat on Sun or Mon morning, OR
* Do a shore dive
2. Anyone who hasn’t been diving for 2 years or more must first do a
Refresher in the pool followed by a shallow dive that same afternoon. More
shallow dives might be advised (prior to allowing you on the wall), depending
on the individual’s skill and comfort levels.
Steve Danaher
I must be missing something, but them I am only a california...
Jammer Six
<glaw...@aol.competent> wrote:
>€ <<< 1. At date of arrival:
How amusing. What's really sad is that this procedure would actually
ADD to their liability...
Brian Wagner
>
> I can't answer that, but below is an excerpt from the safety policy at
> Tortuga Divers, which I saw while looking into plans for an u[pcoming trip.
> They sure seem to have concerns that a lot of people lose it if they haven't
> been diving fairly recently.
15 years ago, nobody would have required what you describe, because a
C-card in those days meant one had been thoroughly trained to the point
of retention.
Mike Painter
> Glawackus wrote:
> >
> > I can't answer that, but below is an excerpt from the safety policy at
> > Tortuga Divers, which I saw while looking into plans for an u[pcoming
trip.
> > They sure seem to have concerns that a lot of people lose it if they
haven't
> > been diving fairly recently.
>
> C-card in those days meant one had been thoroughly trained to the point
> of retention.
15 years ago the industry was still growing at a slow pace compared to
today.
The sport has grown to be like skiing(which is what was always wanted.) Good
equipment means more divers who are marginal and always will be and many
more divers who are marginal because they travel to exotic places and dive
once or twice a year.
25 years ago PADI and NAUI courses had essentially the same requirements as
they do today, both in skills and course length.
If you compare manuals from both eras you will see that they contain
essentially the same information and requirements. (Jepperson 1979, PADI
1978 and 1984, PADI 1999)
Except for a greater emphasis on BC's and a slight modification in dive
tables, the main difference is that the newer books are far better written
and presented.
30 years ago the NAUI course was the 40class 40 pool with a quick day in the
Open water.(LESS then what is required now.
The 40 class hours bored most people in my class and especially me. Most
never got it.
I was the opposite. The dive tables were new to be but the rest of it,
especially the hours spent with physics. I'd done it all before in high
school and college. Hours of calculating the partial pressure of X at a
depth of Y feet if at the surface it's Z percent?" was not to exciting.
Use of the USN dive tables was interesting but took far to many hours for
me.
The pool was just the opposite. I needed all the time and most of my buddies
didn't. I'm a klutz, they were not.
Good teachers teach individuals and talking about increasing or decreasing
this or that does not deal with individuals.
Jason O'Rourke
>I've never had a divemaster bring me coffee. No beverage oif any kind as a
>matter of fact.
Do you drink coffee?
I don't. Lord help anyone that wants me to make coffee for them.
As for your question - mostly it's self serve, but I've had a cup of water
or something warm brought to me a few times, and certainly seen it a lot
for those not feeling too well (cold or seasick).
--
Jason O'Rourke j...@best.com www.jor.com
Rec.scuba strokes pics page: www.jor.com/strokes
Aquashot page: www.jor.com/dive/aquashot
Chapla3537
>> Thank you
>> Chris
>>
Chris,
Ask Jammer. He knows he's God's gift to underwater knowledge and probably
a closet DM as well. And he might get you coffee !
D.C.C.
Glawackus
>What does this mean?
>I must be missing something,
>>>1-A
>>>2-D
>>>3-B
>>>4-C
>>>5-A
They're the answers to the DM exam. That is, after all, what the original
poster wanted.
H NED Huntzinger
>
> 15 years ago the industry was still growing at a slow pace compared to
> wanted.)
Referring to URL: http://www.padi.com/news/stats/cert_history.stm, it
looks like PADI's big growth years were 1984-1996. Yes, this is
incomplete (NAUI used to be bigger, plus YMCA, SSI, BSAC, CMAS, etc),
but considering that PADI has yet to issue its first million
certifications (and if the current trend continues, probably won't do so
until ~2005), this industry remains far, far smaller than tennis or
skiing and different rules apply because of it, plus by the fact that
you're probably not to run the risk of dying if you lose your tennis
racquet.
> Good equipment means more divers who are marginal and always will
> be and many more divers who are marginal because they travel to
> exotic places and dive once or twice a year.
Lowest common denominator is always going to be an issue, but that of
itself does not mandate a policy that the bar must be lowered to
accomodate them. FWIW, there is a similar difference between the
performance standards of USA automotive drivers and European ones
(particularly Germany), yet there's still plenty of drivers in both
countries.
IMO, the turning point was when a dive staff developed the policy that
they have to initially keep a careful eye out on *ALL* their customers
instead of just the ones that are coming in as novices.
> 25 years ago PADI and NAUI courses had essentially the same
> requirements as they do today, both in skills and course length.
> If you compare manuals from both eras you will see that they contain
> essentially the same information and requirements. (Jepperson 1979,
> PADI 1978 and 1984, PADI 1999)
I beg to differ. Where, for example, are basic rescue skills taught in
the PADI courses in comparison to the NAUI courses? Similarly, why was
the NOAA diving manual ~4x the thickness of these texts?
I was taught DECO during my OW-I training, straight out of the
textbooks. Please explain where that is taught today. I also wasn't
given a "depth limit" of 60fsw.
In any event, a manual alone does not establish competency standards.
That is always going to be an objective individual judgement call...how
does it get documented for future comparisons?
FWIW, there's a new medical survey being done by Dr. David Colvard who's
specifically looking at the issue of past vs contemporary training as a
factor regarding Dive Safety. They're currently looking for
participants (I was in the pilot) and the survey form is currently
online at URL:
http://www.scubadiving.com/feature/safetysurvey/
> Except for a greater emphasis on BC's and a slight modification in
> dive tables, the main difference is that the newer books are far
> better written and presented.
If you mean that there's more pretty pictures and less mathmatics, then
I agree. But the last diving textbook I happened to read had a
disconcerting number of factual errors in it (ISBN 0815162863). FWIW,
there have also been recent problems within the industry of plagurized
text & material.
> 30 years ago the NAUI course was the 40 class 40 pool with a quick day
> in the Open water.(LESS then what is required now).
That training course was "Basic", which was a certification level lower
than OW-I. And someone essentially just brought it back...under a
different name, of course...just this past year or so. Minus as many
classroom & pool hours, of course.
> The 40 class hours bored most people in my class and especially me.
> Most never got it. I was the opposite...
You're always going to have classroom learning pace problems unless you
have enough students to be able to screen them and aggregate them into
similarly paced groups. Virtually every grade school & high school in
the country does this type of grouping, and the fact that it was being
done has been transparent to us through most of our education.
> Good teachers teach individuals and talking about increasing or
> decreasing this or that does not deal with individuals.
By decreasing the number of hours that a teacher has to work within, you
undermine the teacher's ability to teach. Its no different than if you
only give the neighborhood kid 5 minutes to wash your car...you're going
to get a lousy carwash.
The bottom line is that it doesn't matter how many tools you have or how
much money you have to buy the best equipment: some things take time no
matter how many resources are expended. Today's dive training is not
unlike trying to make a baby with 9 women in 1 month.
-hh
Charles Harden
>
> In article <20001008094350...@ng-fq1.aol.com>, BuoyantC
> <buoy...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >€ With the growth in numbers of divers at popular dive sites, DM's are as
> >€ necessary as park rangers and event staff.
>
The finest boats in the business don't NEED them, but have them anyway.
>
> >€ If you don't want to be around DM's, dive where no one else wants to or
> >€ can get to, but don't pick on (good)Dive Masters.
> Dive off a boat that is run well enough that is doesn't NEED DM's.
It depends on where you dive. When I dove off of West Palm, a
divemaster was necessary because of the unusual current situation, which
few divers are prepared for the first time out. When I dive in the Gulf
of Mexico, I like a boat to have a DM, to make certain that the captain
got a good hookup and to tell me about the visibility, etc. A DM may
not be necessary, but they make things a lot more comfortable and fun,
which I think are good things in diving.
Charles Harden
> Part of the problem here is that the accidents-waiting-to-happen aren't
> just restricted to new, OW-I novice divers: when I was being critical
> of two individuals who didn't know their 24 clock from a hole in the
> ground, heed carefully I was being critical of two _instructors_ who
> were supposedly qualified to *teach* Nitrox. If this doesn't make your
> blood chill, I don't know what will.
Where they instructors qualified to teach Nitrox, or where they Open
Water Instructors who were certified to use Nitrox? If the first, it
does make my blood chill. If the second, it just makes me shiver a
little bit.
Charles
Brian Wagner
>
> Lowest common denominator is always going to be an issue, but that of
> itself does not mandate a policy that the bar must be lowered to
> accomodate them. FWIW, there is a similar difference between the
> performance standards of USA automotive drivers and European ones
> (particularly Germany), yet there's still plenty of drivers in both
> countries.
It's important to note that those European countries with tougher
licensing requirements manage to maintain a lower accident/death rate on
their roads while imposing fewer restrictions on licensed drivers.
> I beg to differ. Where, for example, are basic rescue skills taught in
> the PADI courses in comparison to the NAUI courses? Similarly, why was
> the NOAA diving manual ~4x the thickness of these texts?
Furthermore, forget the textbooks - look at the standards in the
instructor manuals,
The changes that involve removal of skills are numerous.
> I was taught DECO during my OW-I training, straight out of the
> textbooks. Please explain where that is taught today. I also wasn't
> given a "depth limit" of 60fsw.
"Recreational diving isn't decompression diving" Yeah, right. What is
it when the table (PADI) calls for a MANDATORY (not suggested) "safety"
stop at a given depth for a given time. They just euphemize the concept
of decompression away, and now their tables are half fine print
exceptions to the simple algorithm of reading the tabular portion. You
can't even print a usable PADI table now in blakc and white.
> The bottom line is that it doesn't matter how many tools you have or how
> much money you have to buy the best equipment: some things take time no
> matter how many resources are expended. Today's dive training is not
> unlike trying to make a baby with 9 women in 1 month.
Well put!
NE333RO
>poster wanted.
Just not in a very usefull format :o)
Jammer Six
<mcha...@zebra.net> wrote:
>€ A DM may not be necessary, but they make things a lot more
>€ comfortable and fun, which I think are good things in diving.
Then stay in warm water.
It amuses Us that warm water captains need them, and cold water
Captains don't.
Bob Crownfield
>
> In article <39E45CCC...@zebra.net>, Charles Harden
> <mcha...@zebra.net> wrote:
>
> >€ A DM may not be necessary, but they make things a lot more
> >€ comfortable and fun, which I think are good things in diving.
>
> Then stay in warm water.
>
> It amuses Us that warm water captains need them, and cold water
> Captains don't.
Warm water boats get January divers
('I dive every january, on vacation'),
where cold water boats do not get the 'January Divers'.
>
> --
> "C'mon, you sons of bitches, you want to live forever?"
> -Sergeant Major Dan Daly
--
Bob Crownfield, Crown...@Home.com
Photography, Flying, Delphi Rad Addict
Now diving the Pacific in the LA Area.
"Protect freedoms before they become extinct."
bullshark
> It amuses Us that warm water captains need them, and cold water
> Captains don't.
It amuses Us that you don't comprehend the reason.
--
safe diving,
bullshark
Jason O'Rourke
>Warm water boats get January divers
>('I dive every january, on vacation'),
>where cold water boats do not get the 'January Divers'.
Don't they get the 'Summer Divers' instead?
Genisys Davicom Inc.
"Steve Kramer" <stev...@osb.att.ne.jp> wrote in message
news:39E4E452...@osb.att.ne.jp...
> Golly, you're right!! I dive every January, on vacation in warm water.
> And I dive every February on vacation in warm water. And I dive every
> March on vacation in warm water. And I dive every June on vacation in
> warm water. And I dive every July on vacation in warm water. And I dive
> every August on vacation in warm water.
> Bob, when you're right... you're right! :o)
'He was a man who of all moderns, and perhaps ancient poets, had the largest and
most comprehensive soul. . . . He was naturally learn'd; he needed not the
spectacles of books to read Nature; he looked inwards and found her there. . . .
He is many times flat, insipid; his comic wit degenerating into clenches, his
serious swelling into bombast. But he is always great, when some occasion is
presented to him.' ( Shakespeare )
David
Edmonton, Alberta
Steve Kramer
> Warm water boats get January divers
> ('I dive every january, on vacation'),
> where cold water boats do not get the 'January Divers'.
Golly, you're right!! I dive every January, on vacation in warm water.
And I dive every February on vacation in warm water. And I dive every
March on vacation in warm water. And I dive every June on vacation in
warm water. And I dive every July on vacation in warm water. And I dive
every August on vacation in warm water.
Bob, when you're right... you're right! :o)
Steve Kramer
Osaka, Japan
Two years, one month, three weeks, 1 hour, 5 minutes and 48 seconds.
23491 cigarettes not smoked, saving $4,110.99. Life used for a better
purpose: 11 weeks, 4 days, 13 hours, 35 minutes.
--
I wish to live my life deliberately, to front the essential facts
of life; to suck the very marrow of life and see if I can learn what it
has to teach, and not, when it comes my time to die, discover that I
have not lived.
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Jammer Six
<bull...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>€ > It amuses Us that warm water captains need them, and cold water
>€ > Captains don't.
>€
>€ It amuses Us that you don't comprehend the reason.
Cool! Everyone's amused!
Stay there.
Bob Crownfield
>
> Bob Crownfield <Crown...@Home.com> wrote:
> >Warm water boats get January divers
> >('I dive every january, on vacation'),
> >where cold water boats do not get the 'January Divers'.
>
but summer divers are not only warm water divers.
Summer divers are cold water divers, or
"May, June,July,August,September,October" divers, at least with
wetsuits.
for California, Add "January, February,March,April,"
and "November, December".
> --
> Jason O'Rourke j...@best.com www.jor.com
> Rec.scuba strokes pics page: www.jor.com/strokes
> Aquashot page: www.jor.com/dive/aquashot
--
Glawackus
> Today's dive training is not
>unlike trying to make a baby with 9 women in 1 month.
There's quite a difference, I think. I had fun in my OW class, but not nearly *
that* much fun.
Steve Kramer
>
> "Steve Kramer" <stev...@osb.att.ne.jp> wrote in message
> news:39E4E452...@osb.att.ne.jp...
> > And I dive every February on vacation in warm water. And I dive every
> > March on vacation in warm water. And I dive every June on vacation in
> > warm water. And I dive every July on vacation in warm water. And I dive
> > every August on vacation in warm water.
> > Bob, when you're right... you're right! :o)
>
> most comprehensive soul. . . . He was naturally learn'd; he needed not the
> spectacles of books to read Nature; he looked inwards and found her there. . . .
> He is many times flat, insipid; his comic wit degenerating into clenches, his
> serious swelling into bombast. But he is always great, when some occasion is
> presented to him.' ( Shakespeare )
David, are you copying from your Dictionary of Quotes again? If only
you 'knew' these lines you throw about...
THEN I'd be impressed. But you don't. And I'm not.
Steve Kramer
Osaka, Japan
Two years, one month, three weeks, 10 hours, 21 minutes and 49 seconds.
23502 cigarettes not smoked, saving $4,113.01. Life used for a better
purpose: 11 weeks, 4 days, 14 hours, 30 minutes.
H NED Huntzinger
>
> H NED Huntzinger wrote:
> >
> > Lowest common denominator is always going to be an issue, but that of
> > itself does not mandate a policy that the bar must be lowered to
> > accomodate them. FWIW, there is a similar difference between the
> > performance standards of USA automotive drivers and European ones
> > (particularly Germany), yet there's still plenty of drivers in both
> > countries.
>
> It's important to note that those European countries with tougher
> licensing requirements manage to maintain a lower accident/death rate on
> their roads while imposing fewer restrictions on licensed drivers.
Such as significantly higher speed limits.
And the funny part is that its sometimes done on roads that aren't even
as good of condition/design as the Insterstates in this country. That
the Autostrata outside of Verona as an example...120km/hr speed limit
weekdays, 145 on weekends.
-hh
H NED Huntzinger
Teach.
-hh
Charles Harden
Jammer Six wrote:
>
> In article <39E45CCC...@zebra.net>, Charles Harden
> <mcha...@zebra.net> wrote:
>
> >€ A DM may not be necessary, but they make things a lot more
> >€ comfortable and fun, which I think are good things in diving.
>
> Then stay in warm water.
>
I do. I have no reason to dive in cold, murky water. I don't want to
see dull-looking fish, and I love to see coral and tropical fish.
Jason O'Rourke
>> Then stay in warm water.
>>
>I do. I have no reason to dive in cold, murky water. I don't want to
>see dull-looking fish, and I love to see coral and tropical fish.
Your loss, Charlie. The fish may be duller, but the anemonies and sponges
are better than what you see in most of the tropics, and virtually all
rock is covered with some form of life.
Charles Harden
Jason O'Rourke wrote:
>
> Charles Harden <mcha...@zebra.net> wrote:
> >> Then stay in warm water.
> >>
> >I do. I have no reason to dive in cold, murky water. I don't want to
> >see dull-looking fish, and I love to see coral and tropical fish.
>
> Your loss, Charlie. The fish may be duller, but the anemonies and sponges
> are better than what you see in most of the tropics, and virtually all
> rock is covered with some form of life.
Well, I'm a fish fan--my major emphasis in my master's degree was in
fish ecology. Hard to believe that the sponges are better--can't beat
seeing a basket sponge large enough to swim into. I also like clear
water. Nothing can beat seeing a 90 ft deep wreck from the surface....
Also, I hate wearing hoods and thick wetsuits (have never worn a dry
suit). My favorite diving is either in a 1/8 inch shorty wetsuit or just
a t-shirt (80+ degree water). Diving in warm water is a much more fun
experience to me. I've been in water down to 52 degrees, and I don't
like the feel of being encumbered in a thick wetsuit with hood and thick
gloves. Much prefer freedom of movement.
Brian Wagner
>
> Then stay in warm water.
>
> Captains don't.
>
importance in cold water regions?
Brian Wagner
>
> And the funny part is that its sometimes done on roads that aren't even
> as good of condition/design as the Insterstates in this country. That
> the Autostrata outside of Verona as an example...120km/hr speed limit
> weekdays, 145 on weekends.
>
Jammer Six
<bwa...@mr.marconimed.com> wrote:
>€ Don't people drink more on the weekends?
I don't.
Jammer Six
<bwa...@mr.marconimed.com> wrote:
>€ > Then stay in warm water.
[bemused expression on HRH]
Huh.
We will have to consider this point.
We are...
We require coffee, this is so. Its temperature IS of great importance,
as is its quality.
We are temporarily at a loss...
Scott F. Migaldi
>
> In article <39E5FF22...@mr.marconimed.com>, Brian WagnerBut you don't drink less, right?
--
Scott F. Migaldi
MSDT 150972
TRA L1 7927
Jammer Six
<smig...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>€ But you don't drink less, right?
That's right.
Genisys Davicom Inc.
> David, are you copying from your Dictionary of Quotes again? If only
> you 'knew' these lines you throw about...
> THEN I'd be impressed. But you don't. And I'm not.
Steve, we all know the only thing that impresses you is the reflection you see
in looking glass.
Could you be so lucky to know what I know.
David
Edmonton,Alberta
Steve Kramer
> Could you be so lucky to know what I know.
I know I don't need to use "Bartlette's Familiar Quotations" to quote
things...
Is THAT lucky? :o)
Steve Kramer
Osaka, Japan
Two years, one month, three weeks, one day, 10 hours, 32 minutes and 48
seconds. 23533 cigarettes not smoked, saving $4,118.30. Life used for a
better purpose: 11 weeks, 4 days, 17 hours, 5 minutes.
H NED Huntzinger
>
> H NED Huntzinger wrote:
> >
> > And the funny part is that its sometimes done on roads that aren't even
> > as good of condition/design as the Insterstates in this country. That
> > the Autostrata outside of Verona as an example...120km/hr speed limit
> > weekdays, 145 on weekends.
> >
But commute to work less.
-hh
Paul Schilter
"Jammer Six" <jam...@oz.net> wrote in message
news:8s50lr$5id$2...@216.39.130.27...
> In article <39E5FEBC...@mr.marconimed.com>, Brian Wagner
> <bwa...@mr.marconimed.com> wrote:
>
> We are temporarily at a loss...
>
Genisys Davicom Inc.
> I know I don't need to use "Bartlette's Familiar Quotations" to quote
> things...
Never heard of it.
Is this what you use to butcher others works with ?
David
Edmonton, Alberta
Steve Harris
Jason O'Rourke wrote in message ...
>
>Your loss, Charlie. The fish may be duller, but the anemonies and sponges
>are better than what you see in most of the tropics, and virtually all
>rock is covered with some form of life.
I might remark that the same is true of the furniture at your boss's
Christmas party. But the real question is: just what form of life IS it? And
what
pressing reason is there to view any of it? The biologist should start with
basic
questions first.
MsJody
Steve Kramer wrote:
>
> "Genisys Davicom Inc." wrote:
>
> > Could you be so lucky to know what I know.
>
tafa...@gmail.com
> Does anyone know where to get the answers to the final exam quizz ?
> Thank you
> Chris
en padi pros puedes encontrar los exámenes y las respuestas.
solo cuando eres DM o mas
hohohohoho