Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.

Dismiss

cc:Mail SMTPLINK Undeliverable Message

25 views

Skip to first unread message

ADMIN...@ccmail.wcc.com

unread,

Jul 12, 1995, 3:00:00 AM7/12/95

Message undeliverable at this time

Original text follows
----------------------------------------------
Received: by ccmail from wcc.com
From owner-...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU
X-Envelope-From: owner-...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU
Received: from listserv.brown.edu (mbone.brown.edu) by wcc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
id AA17553; Wed, 12 Jul 95 08:11:12 MDT
Received: from stanley.cis.Brown.EDU (stanley.cis.brown.edu [128.148.176.55]) by listserv.brown.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id IAA13990; Wed, 12 Jul 1995 08:12:16 -0400
Received: from BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU by BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b)
with NJE id 2003 for SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU; Wed, 12 Jul 1995
08:10:48 -0400
Received: from BROWNVM (NJE origin SMTP@BROWNVM) by BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (LMail
V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2198; Wed, 12 Jul 1995 08:10:47 -0400
Received: from scifi.maid.com by BROWNVM.brown.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP;
Wed, 12 Jul 95 08:10:27 EDT
Received: (from njs@localhost) by scifi.maid.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA16193;
Wed, 12 Jul 1995 08:17:02 -0400
Approved-By: Nick Simicich <n...@SCIFI.EMI.NET>
Message-Id: <1995071212...@scifi.maid.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 08:17:02 -0400
Reply-To: rec-...@cs.utexas.edu
Sender: Scuba Digest Redistribution <SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
From: Nick Simicich <n...@scifi.emi.net>
Subject: rec-scuba Digest V4 #599
To: Multiple recipients of list SCUBA-D <SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>

rec-scuba Digest Wed, 12 Jul 95 Volume 4 : Issue 599

Today's Topics:
Any info on USD Matrix computer??
anyone dive Hammond Harbor (Ind)?
Darren Douglass Tragedy
Darren Douglass Tragedy/Buddy System [8]
Deaths in S. Cal Deaths
FOR SALE: 15-Store Sporting Goods Retailer [2]
G.White ATTACK in CATALINA? (Monterey)
How's the diving in Rhode Island ?
info on Aegean/Mediterranean Sea [2]
My home Page
Need Key Largo Info [3]
Newest Best Beach Bargains
Oceanic Phibian Rebreather... [5]
Scuba Buddy-Spotter [2]
Scuba Death off Catalina
Scuba Magazines
SHARK SMART: The Book
TERROR AT -41 FEET! [3]
Utah [3]
Video Housing Problem - H
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Jul 1995 19:14:51 -0600
From: aes...@nwu.edu (ann stockham)
Subject: anyone dive Hammond Harbor (Ind)?
Message-ID: <aes756-0807...@lucky151.acns.nwu.edu>
Organization: Northwestern University/Medill

I've been hearing about a sort of dive park around the Hammond Marina in
Indiana. It's supposed to be part of a Great Lakes research facility, with
maybe a little wreck and some good freshwater sponges. Anyone been there?
Got specifics (i.e. airfills nearby, access, cost, etc.)?

Or if anyone has details on other good Chicago-area shore dives...

Thanks...

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1995 17:34:34 -0400
From: pwp...@aol.com (PWPATON)
Subject: Re: TERROR AT -41 FEET!
Message-ID: <3tmtla$l...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

Just a thought. If we need to send a student directly from open water
diver to advanced diver in order for them to be comfortable, shouldn't we
re-examine what we're teaching in the open water classes. It seems to me
that we've been getting a little to easy with the basic course lately.
With a little more training, "paniced" may not have had to deal with the
situation to begin with.
All in all, I think he handled the situation in the best way he could in
the situation he was in.
Tom

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 1995 12:51:31 -0400
From: ftor...@jusdnews.fir.fbc.com (Frank Tornabene)
Subject: Re: TERROR AT -41 FEET!
Message-ID: <3trlqj$b...@tekdev-12.fir.fbc.com>
Organization: CS First Boston Corporation

In article <3tmtla$l...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, pwp...@aol.com (PWPATON) writes:
> Just a thought. If we need to send a student directly from open water
> diver to advanced diver in order for them to be comfortable, shouldn't we
> re-examine what we're teaching in the open water classes. It seems to me
> that we've been getting a little to easy with the basic course lately.
> With a little more training, "paniced" may not have had to deal with the
> situation to begin with.
> All in all, I think he handled the situation in the best way he could in
> the situation he was in.
> Tom

Tom,
You make a very good point. But here's another thought. Why don't we combine the OW and AOW together. I gues you would have to charge more money for this course. But this would seperate the whimsical and the serious anyway. The instructor would be more intimate with the students due to this scenario. Maybe some of dive instructors and agencies won't like it, cause it probaly means less money in their pockets. The end result: a more experienced, well trained diver before he is released to go out on
his own.
I do agree that some of the Basic Open Water classes are getting a bit too easy.

Frank

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 19:14:15 GMT
From: ggunn@aton (Gordon Gunn H3-210)
Subject: Re: TERROR AT -41 FEET!
Message-ID: <DBILF...@oakhill.sps.mot.com>
Organization: Motorola SPS, Austin, Texas

I*M*HO, it did not. I think a diver should accumulate
some real world experience before he should be considered
"advanced", no matter what courses he/she has taken.

My $0.02.

|~~~~~~o~~o~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| o o @==< >==@ / | / / |
| ___ o >==@ ____________/ |________________/ / |
| (_^_) o ******************** / gg...@aton.sps.mot.com ___ < |
| \@/== * Gordon in Austin * / ___/ \ \ |
| ******************** /_____ @ ))) ___/ \_\ |
| Practice safe sectors. \__________\ |______/ >==@ |
| A hard disk has no conscience. \ | @==< |
|________________________________________________\|_______________________GG|
\

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Jul 95 14:13:17 +0100
From: thr...@hoa.ping.dk (Kjeld Andersen)
Subject: Oceanic Phibian Rebreather...
Message-ID: <thras...@hoa.ping.dk>
Organization: hoa

Hello

DSD> @Subject: Oceanic Phibian Rebreather...
DSD> From: dde...@infinet.com (Dale S. Dervin)
DSD> Does anyone have any info on the new Oceanic Phibian Rebreather? Is it
DSD> really
DSD> a product that is available or just a concept? I am interested in being
DSD> trained in Nitrox diving, as well as rebreather equipment.

I have a little info fra a danish dive-magazine..

"The training of Phibian-instructors vil be through a new organization called
ITT - International training and technology. ITT has been started by Oceanic,
and includes centres both in USA end Europe.
Both sales and service will be through selected Oceanic dealers. USA starts in
fall 1995, the rest of the world will follow later."

I'm told that the Phibian will be on the danish marked in spring 1996..

Greets.
Kjeld Andersen, thr...@hoa.ping.dk
-- Via Xenolink 1.96, XenolinkUUCP 1.1

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 09:56:50 -0700
From: ch...@cisco.com (Scott Cherf)
Subject: Re: Oceanic Phibian Rebreather...
Message-ID: <cherf-10079...@171.69.122.121>
Organization: cisco Systems

In article <thras...@hoa.ping.dk>, thr...@hoa.ping.dk (Kjeld Andersen) wrote:

>USA starts in
> fall 1995, the rest of the world will follow later."
>
> I'm told that the Phibian will be on the danish marked in spring 1996..

I talked to an Oceanic sales rep last Friday at a local shop. He told
me the CCS-50 (Nitrox) was expected out in 12 months (summer '96),
with the CCS-100 (nitrox/heliox/argox/neox) coming out 12 months
after that (summer '97).

In February they told me fall '95. Now it's summer '96. You figure it out ;).

On the other hand, I've actually been able to try out a Prism, and Draeger
starts training trainers in Bermuda next month....

Scott.

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 1995 14:30:19 GMT
From: Dan Volker <d...@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Oceanic Phibian Rebreather...
Message-ID: <3tu1tr$10...@news.gate.net>
Organization: South Florida Dive Journal <http://www.florida.net/scuba/dive>

ch...@cisco.com (Scott Cherf) wrote:
>In article <thras...@hoa.ping.dk>, thr...@hoa.ping.dk (Kjeld Andersen) wrote:
>
>>USA starts in
>> fall 1995, the rest of the world will follow later."
>>
>> I'm told that the Phibian will be on the danish marked in spring 1996..
>
>I talked to an Oceanic sales rep last Friday at a local shop. He told
>me the CCS-50 (Nitrox) was expected out in 12 months (summer '96),
>with the CCS-100 (nitrox/heliox/argox/neox) coming out 12 months
>after that (summer '97).
>
>In February they told me fall '95. Now it's summer '96. You figure it out ;).
>
>On the other hand, I've actually been able to try out a Prism, and Draeger
>starts training trainers in Bermuda next month....
>
>Scott.

Scott,
Todd Ives can put you in a BMD rebreather right now. Dave Schubert of
Dive USA can put you in and Oddysey rebreather right now.
Let me know if you are interested.

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 1995 18:03:50 GMT
From: dbarrett@spectre (Douglas Barrett)
Subject: Re: Oceanic Phibian Rebreather...
Message-ID: <3tuee6$3...@hawk.hcsc.com>
Organization: Harris CSC, Ft. Lauderdale, FL

Dale S. Dervin (dde...@infinet.com) wrote:
: Does anyone have any info on the new Oceanic Phibian Rebreather? Is it
: really a product that is available or just a concept? I am interested
: in being trained in Nitrox diving, as well as rebreather equipment.

I saw one at a dive club meeting last week. If memory serves me the
Oceanic Rep said: It is more than one and less than the other. In
other words they are building (and diving) prototypes. Right now
plans are for a 1995 introduction at something like US$2000. The
unit has an integrated BC and dive computer, so maybe that price is
more attractive than it sounds. One problem is that O2 needs to be
pumped to 3500 PSI to recharge the thing.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Douglas These are my opinions, but if
dbar...@spectre.ssd.csc.harris.com you like them - lets talk.
for a small gratuity they
could be yours.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 18:14:39 GMT
From: se...@tellabs.com (Michael Ciha)
Subject: Re: Oceanic Phibian Rebreather...
Message-ID: <1995Jul10.1...@tellab5.tellabs.com>
Organization: Tellabs, Lisle,IL

>dde...@infinet.com (Dale S. Dervin) wrote:
>Does anyone have any info on the new Oceanic Phibian Rebreather? Is it
>really a product that is available or just a concept? I am interested in
>being trained in Nitrox diving, as well as rebreather equipment.
>
>Thanks-

I found a rebreather web page with pictures and some limited manufacturer's
information-

It's at:

http://diver.ocean.washington.edu/rebreather.html

There's some Phibian information (as well as others) there.

Hope this helps...

Seeya

--
================================================================================
Michael T. Ciha
Tellabs, Inc. Lisle, IL 60532
se...@tellabs.com ...!uunet!tellab5!seeya

...shovels, and rakes, and implements of destruction..... Arlo Guthrie
================================================================================

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1995 20:29:15 -0400
From: sul...@aol.com (Sulli23)
Subject: Need Key Largo Info
Message-ID: <3tn7sr$n...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

I'll be in Key Largo on Sunday, 7/16, and need some opinions on which
operation I should dive with. We'll have a group of 4, two of whom are
experienced divers, and two who will look to snorkel only. I'm looking for
an operation that doesn't pack too many divers on a boat and can take us
to some spots that aren't too advanced (for the snorkelers), but still
present nice diving. Two operations I've heard of are Ocean Divers and
Dixie Divers. Any opinions?

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 1995 19:02:46 GMT
From: Michael Peluso <MPeluso_...@isdlink1.ess.harris.com>
Subject: Re: Need Key Largo Info
Message-ID: <3trtgm$8...@su102w.ess.harris.com>
Organization: Harris Electronic System Sector

sul...@aol.com (Sulli23) wrote:
>
> I'll be in Key Largo on Sunday, 7/16,

I always dive with Lady Cianna, or get my own boat. You can get
your own boat for about the same price as 4 divers doing 2-tank
dives. Do the Duane or the Eagle wrecks!!!!

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 00:59:14 GMT
From: Betsi <e...@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Need Key Largo Info
Message-ID: <3tv6p2$c...@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Graphic Design by Betsi

Michael Peluso <MPeluso_...@isdlink1.ess.harris.com> wrote:
>sul...@aol.com (Sulli23) wrote:
>>
>> I'll be in Key Largo on Sunday, 7/16,
>
>I always dive with Lady Cianna, or get my own boat. You can get
>your own boat for about the same price as 4 divers doing 2-tank
>dives. Do the Duane or the Eagle wrecks!!!!

Lady Cianna has a great rep - and I dove both those wrecks recently and
they are fantastic! Go go go ...

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1995 16:42:08 GMT
From: pe...@bankrupt.com (Peter A. Chapman)
Subject: FOR SALE: 15-Store Sporting Goods Retailer
Message-ID: <3tmch0$r...@earth.njcc.com>
Organization: Bankruptcy Creditors' Service, Inc.

A Cincinnati, Ohio-based 15-store sporting goods retail chain filed for
bankruptcy in June 1994. The Company filed a plan of reorganization
proposing to emerge from chapter 11. That plan proposes to pay creditors,
owed an assumed $4.5 million, 32 cents on the dollar and leave the stock
in the company in the hands of the existing sole shareholder. Moreover,
the plan contemplates that the sole shareholder will continue as the CEO
and will collect a $225,000 annual salary.

In short, the current shareholder has put forth a $1,440,000 bid for the
company with no cash up-front. Anyone interested in acquiring this chain
could do so by advancing a higher offer. Just cutting the CEO's proposed
salary by $100,000 per year would kick another $500,000 into creditors'
hands and increase the payout to 43 cents on the dollar--with no money
up-front on the part of the prospective bidder.

If you are interested in acquiring such a company, please let us know, and
we'll make arrangements for you to receive a copy of the Company's plan of
reorganization and disclosure statement.

Peter A. Chapman
Bankruptcy Creditors' Service, Inc.
301 N. Harrison St., Suite 206
Princeton, N.J. 08540
Telephone (609) 924-8949
Telecopier (609) 924-8963

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter A. Chapman pe...@bankrupt.com http://bankrupt.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 1995 17:36:58 GMT
From: Charles Thomas <Char...@macc.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: FOR SALE: 15-Store Sporting Goods Retailer
X-XXMessage-ID: <AC26CEFC...@lux.cals.wisc.edu>
Organization: IMR, University of Wisconsin-Madison

In article <3tmch0$r...@earth.njcc.com> Peter A. Chapman,
pe...@bankrupt.com writes:
>If you are interested in acquiring such a company, please let us know,
and
>we'll make arrangements for you to receive a copy of the Company's plan
of
>reorganization and disclosure statement.
>

Can I write you a check?

Charles Thomas
A-19548

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1995 17:43:48 GMT
From: ale...@singnet.com.sg
Subject: Scuba Magazines
Message-ID: <3tmg4k$e...@lantana.singnet.com.sg>
Organization: Singapore Telecom Internet Service

Hello pals
Any interesting magazines to suggest ?
Thanks

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1995 18:19:07 GMT
From: "Richard J. Mannix" <rma...@bga.com>
Subject: My home Page
Message-ID: <3tmi6r$8...@giga.bga.com>
Organization: Real/Time Communications - Bob Gustwick and Associates

I've received some nice comments from visitors to my WWW home page
Underwater Photo Image Library. I've added a page for "WWW Dive Buddy
Photos". If you don't have a web page and would like to see them there,
visit the pages and check it out. I've also added a page of Texas Oil Rig
diving photos. I also split up the thumbnail pages to several different
pages to accomodate slower links.

http://www.realtime.net/~rmannix/

Rich Mannix SSI AOWI #2209

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 20:10:00 GMT
From: chris.c...@mogur.com (Chris Connolly)
Subject: Video Housing Problem - H
Message-ID: <9507081...@mogur.com>
Organization: The MOG-UR'S EMS/TGT Technologies, Granada Hills, CA 818-366-1238

A friend of mine has a video housing which he is experiencing some
problems. Can anyone help?

The housing is made by a so called defunct company named Accugear/Rankin
Industries. Models AVH1 and AVH2 will eventually leak through the
"LANC" cable, which will damage the circuit board in the handle and
eventually leak into the housing and camera.

I have found out that a company named Phoenix, which manufactures under
water housings, has moved into the same address that Accugear/Rankin
Industries used to have. A rep from Phoenix has told me that eventually
all Accugear housing will leak due to a silicone that is incompatible
with sea water. Sounds fishy, huh!! Phoenix is offering one of there
new housing at a discount to Accugear owners, but refuses to repair
Accugear housings, and mine is less than two years old.

I have found a company to repair the circuit board in the handle. I now
need to locate a high quality silicone sealant that is resistant to sea
water. If anyone has had similar problems or suggestions you can reply
to this message or email me at chris.c...@mogur.com

Thanks!

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1995 20:16:43 GMT
From: FFB...@prodigy.com (Alan Wilson)
Subject: Newest Best Beach Bargains
Message-ID: <3tmp3b$1h...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>
Organization: Prodigy Services Company 1-800-PRODIGY

The latest edition (7/8) of Best Beach Bargains is
now available.

We list charter packages to beach resorts of the
Caribbean and Mexico being sold by Apple Vacations,
MLT Vacations and Funjet Holidays below their
brochure prices.

In this week's issue we have begun to flag departures
that are offering special values to families, such
as the special for children flying from New York to
Nassau, which includes air fare and hotel for $99
per child.

This week's listing also includes some specials from
the Midwest to Cancun & Cozumel with departure dates
all the way through the summer.

The listing is available by sending an e-mail message
to the following addresses:

For departures from the following EASTERN US cities:
Departing Atlanta, Baltimore, New York, Philadelphia
& Washington -- to Bermuda, Cancun, Cozumel,
Freeport, Jamaica & Nassau
e-mail to: BEST.BEACH.B...@REPLY.NET

For departures from the following MIDWEST cities and
Los Angeles: Departing Chicago, Cincinnati,
Cleveland, Los Angeles, Minneapolis & St. Louis -- to
Cancun, Cozumel, Grand Cayman, Jamaica, Los Cobos,
Nassau, Puerto Vallarta & St. Lucia
e-mail to: BEST.BEACH.BA...@REPLY.NET

Many of these special prices also qualify for
VacationSaver rebates.

(Please DO NOT reply to this message. Your request
MUST be addressed to the e-mail addresses shown
above.)

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1995 20:41:02 GMT
From: j...@dd.dk (Jesper Theil Hansen)
Subject: How's the diving in Rhode Island ?
Message-ID: <3tmqgu$3...@news.dknet.dk>
Organization: Dias

Hi fellow divers !

I'm 26 year old diver from Copenhagen, Denmark, who's starting on a Ph.D.
program in Economics at Brown University, RI, in september. I've been
wondering about the diving possibilities in this area. Can be anyone send
me some info ?

Thanks -

Karsten Theil Hansen

------------------------------

Date: 08 Jul 95 16:57:24
From: SeaW...@980.sasbbs.com (SeaWitch)
Subject: Scuba Death off Catalina
Message-ID: <945_950...@sasbbs.com>
Organization: Relational Development Corporation

RE: Scuba Death off Catalina
BY: Stephen Carroll to All on Fri Jun 30 1995 12:43 am

> I was reading today's obituaries and noticed a 19 yr old who was killed in
> a "scuba-diving" accident off Catalina Island while certifying for a Dixie
> College course on June 24. Does anyone know exactly what happened. He

What operation was he diving with? The Peace had someone in the chamber last
weekend, and Atlantis had 2 deaths last weekend ( still waiting to get the
facts on that one, presumably the 14 yr old son died and the father when down
after him and died). The local news did not report any other accidents off
Catalina or anywhere else in So. Ca.
--
|Fidonet: SeaWitch 1:103/980
|Internet: SeaW...@980.sasbbs.com
|
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1995 21:05:19 GMT
From: lev...@ix.netcom.com (Levent Sezer)
Subject: info on Aegean/Mediterranean Sea
Message-ID: <3tmruf$c...@ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom

Does anyone know the aproximate water temparature in Aegean/Eastern
Mediterranean between April - October? I'm trying to find out if my 3
mm wetsuit is enough.

Thanks,
Levent

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1995 23:17:00 GMT
From: rfu...@direct.ca (Robert C.)
Subject: Re: info on Aegean/Mediterranean Sea
Message-ID: <3tn3lc$d...@stud.Direct.CA>
Organization: The Norton Motor Company

In article <3tmruf$c...@ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>,
lev...@ix.netcom.com (Levent Sezer) wrote:
>
>Does anyone know the aproximate water temparature in Aegean/Eastern
>Mediterranean between April - October? I'm trying to find out if my 3
>mm wetsuit is enough.
>

I dove for 3 days around Bodrum, Turkey last October and wore no suit at all.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1995 21:12:08 GMT
From: top...@iadfw.net (??)
Subject: Scuba Buddy-Spotter
Message-ID: <3tmsb8$e...@news.iadfw.net>
Organization: Internet America

THE SCUBA "BUDDY-SPOTTER"

The Buddy Spotter is a must for diver safety.

It could easily save your buddy's life or yours!

Don't you get tired of looking all over for your dive partner?

Now you can locate and keep track of your buddy with ease.

No need to find your dive partner; you can see your buddy in

plain view, in a split second. Saves on air and energy; no

more rolling and turning around to locate your dive partner.

No more water in your mouth from rolling upside down to look

for the buddy that might be right over you.

Incredible BUDDY SPOTTER wide-angle lens gives you an instant,

all-around view. See above, below, behind and on both sides

in a quick glimpse! Lets you spend more time diving and less

time searching for your buddy.

DOES NOT ATTRACT FISH!!!

SAFE FOR SALT AND FRESH WATER.

Held in the palm of your hand with a velcro strap to fit both

small and large hands. Stores flat in your buoyancy compensator

vest pocket.

Reasonable price makes it affordable for both buddies.

For more information and prices, contact:

TOP...@IADFW.NET

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 18:20:35 GMT
From: s...@cae1.rmh.edu (Steve Breland)
Subject: Re: Scuba Buddy-Spotter
Message-ID: <3trr27$o...@ns.sunbelt.net>
Organization: Richland Memorial Hospital

top...@iadfw.net (??) wrote:

>THE SCUBA "BUDDY-SPOTTER"
>The Buddy Spotter is a must for diver safety.
>It could easily save your buddy's life or yours!
Junk mail. Can't get away from it. Please go away.

Steve Breland
email: s...@cae1.rmh.edu

------------------------------

Date: 08 Jul 95 17:23:40
From: SeaW...@980.sasbbs.com (SeaWitch)
Subject: Re: G.White ATTACK in CATALINA? (Monterey)
Message-ID: <946_950...@sasbbs.com>
Organization: Relational Development Corporation

RE: Re: G.White ATTACK in CATALINA? (Monterey)
BY: Dan Elfenson to All on Mon Jul 03 1995 10:12 pm

> From: dan...@ix.netcom.com (Dan Elfenson)
> Date: 4 Jul 1995 05:12:43 GMT
>
> In <3t9q8b$c...@agate.berkeley.edu> j...@iis06.IAS.berkeley.edu (Jason
> O'Rourke) writes:
> >
> >The attack was at Point Lobos, just south of Monterey. Details from
> the
> >nightly news and the AP are sketchy, was hoping someone here was
> better
> >informed.
> >
> >The diver was at 40 feet in Whaler's Cove using a scotter of some sort
>
> >when he ran into it. (news said 10-12 ft - presumably he was the
> source,
> >or based on bite marks?) He was bitten on the right shoulder, thigh,
> and
> >torso. This was at 5:30 Friday eve.
> >
> >He then went to the boat, gunned the engine as a signal, and divers
> >returned. One other woman saw it from above. The male diver was
> >discharged Saturday morning.
> >
> >The AP article goes on to mention that there have been two other
> attacks,
> >one serious, in the past 10 years off Monastery (1986,1990). The only
>
> >fatal diver attack I knew of was the disputed one at La Jolla Cove
> (where
> >the dive buddy and the wife moved to mexico)
> >
> >Our OW1 class heads to Cannery Row this weekend and monastery the
> next.
> >Lee must be estatic right now.
> >
Don't you love the the media, they love to exaggerat<grin> . I understand
through a diver who was in Monterey when this happened, was that the bitten
diver received 14 stiches in his shoulder only.

As for LaJolla Cove, I have not heard about that one, and the Cove is my
favorite dive site. Maybe I missed something. There was also a death off San
Miguel ( I think) island a few months back. A commercial urchin diver was hit
by a great white, however the diver was in a rookery area, had no dive gear on,
and was on the surface.

For actual statistics on great white attacks on Divers you can call Yehuda
Goldman at Hydrosphere at 310-230-3334. I can't think of anyone who has done
more research on great whites, particularly off California coast. I believe I
heard there were only like 10 scuba diver deaths due to great whites ever
recorded.

SeaWitch
/
--
|Fidonet: SeaWitch 1:103/980
|Internet: SeaW...@980.sasbbs.com
|
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.

------------------------------

Date: 08 Jul 95 17:28:12
From: SeaW...@980.sasbbs.com (SeaWitch)
Subject: Re: Deaths in S. Cal Deaths
Message-ID: <947_950...@sasbbs.com>
Organization: Relational Development Corporation

RE: Re: Deaths in S. Cal Deaths
BY: Edward Ying to All on Mon Jul 03 1995 04:45 pm

> >Anyone have details regarding father and son (14 yrs old???) dead on boat
> >6 miles off Leo Cabrillo after wreck (???) diving. Was this a deep dive
> >accident? Was a dive operator involved?
> >
> >Jack
> From my understanding, there was no way the 14 yr old should have been on a
> deep dive. I've heard news accounts & a interview with a physician who trie
> to revive the two, that he was a beginner diver, not familiar with the dive
> his equipment. The news out here also said the father (a "professional dive
> - who knows what that means) died trying to save his son.

Darren Douglas is the father and was hte divemaster that day on the Atlantis.
He was the editor of Dive Boat Magazine in Ca. and has a really earie
artical in the July Aug edition which arrived in the mail a couple days after
the accident.

SEAWitch
--
|Fidonet: SeaWitch 1:103/980
|Internet: SeaW...@980.sasbbs.com
|
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1995 22:43:10 GMT
From: VAL...@calvin.cc.duq.edu (Vallone Lou)
Subject: SHARK SMART: The Book
Message-ID: <3tn1lu$k...@godot.cc.duq.edu>
Organization: Duquesne University, Pittsburgh, PA

Hi Folks!

I just finished reading a delightful book written by Rick
Martin, and I'd like to encourage any of you who have an
interest in sharks, or just a good belly-laugh to purchase
a copy. Here's the scoop:

SHARK SMART: THE DIVERS' GUIDE TO UNDERSTANDING SHARK BEHAVIOUR

Finally, a shark book with attitude!

There's never been a shark book quite like this. It's author, Richard
Martin, is part marine-biologist, part stand-up comic. The result is an
authoritative and often hilarious look into shark psychology. In SHARK
SMART, Martin shares his most memorable (and embarrassing) shark stories,
explains why sharks do what they do, offers grass-roots guidelines for safely
getting close to sharks in the wild (including practical tips for underwater
photographers and participants in organised shark feedings), provides the
means to identify and interpret the behaviour of the 15 most commonly
encountered sharks of the Gulf Coast-Bahamas-Caribbean region, and explores
the much publicised risk of shark attack - including ways you and your buddy
can avoid ending up sushi.

SHARK SMART is not available in stores. The book measures 8.5 by 5.5 inches
(21 by 14 cm), is 192 pages long, illustrated with 18 of the author's
pen-and-ink drawings, with soft-covers and is perfect bound (built to last!).
Price is $14.95 US ($19.95 Canadian) plus $5.00 shipping and handling by
cheque or money order, payable to Rick Martin at: Richard Martin/ReefQuest
Expeditions/310-170 East 3rd Street/North Vancouver, BC V7L 1E6/CANADA.
For further information, E-mail the author at:
Rick_...@wonder.wimsey.com.

-!- Go down with a diver

Mention my name and Rick will autograph your copy.

Lou Vallone, Imperial Wizard: Warm Water Wimps International
VAL...@genesis.duq.edu
FidoNet 1:129/112

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 22:55:10 GMT
From: saun...@neosoft.com (James F. Saunders)
Subject: Re: Any info on USD Matrix computer??
Message-ID: <saunders....@neosoft.com>
Organization: NeoSoft Internet Services +1 713 968 5800

In article <3t91oc$l...@fermat.mayo.edu> fug...@mayo.edu (Richard D. Fugate) writes:
>From: fug...@mayo.edu (Richard D. Fugate)
>Subject: Re: Any info on USD Matrix computer??
>Date: 3 Jul 1995 15:18:36 GMT

Richard,

I agree with your comments on the U.S. Divers Matrix Dive Computer. I recently
bought one on sale at Sea Sports Scuba in Houston for $200. Last week I
used it in Cozumel and Isla Mujeres and was pleased with it. I
particularly like the graphical display (green, yellow, red) of Ascent
Rate and Nitrogen Absorption.

Jim Saunders <saun...@neosoft.com>

>Alan,>I recently purchased a Martix in the Pivot
consol for $275.00 from an>authorized dealer, not mail order. A little smart
shopping can save>some money on what has been a very nice computer. Though I
did have a>failure in the display that occurred on the first dive. After
talking>with USD tech support I had a new unit in less than 72 hours.
No>problems at all since. US Divers seems to have very polite people and>fast
service. Of all the small round gauge size computers this one>seemed to have
clearest, least confusing display. I would spend the>money again.

>Richard Fugate
>fug...@mayo.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jul 95 03:58:06 -0500
From: Bill Muse <wj...@delphi.com>
Subject: Re: Utah
Message-ID: <hUx-3n...@delphi.com>
Organization: Delphi (in...@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)

There are some good lakes here in Utah. Next week end I'll be going to Bear
Lake for some diving. One thing though it is all altitude diving here so bone
up
on your conversion tables :-). When you get here just drop a line I'll dive
with ya.

Bill

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Jul 1995 20:06:11 GMT
From: mi...@msmith.demon.co.uk (Mike Smith)
Subject: Re: Utah
Message-ID: <19950709....@msmith.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Mike's Software

In message <hUx-3n...@delphi.com> Bill Muse wrote:

> There are some good lakes here in Utah. Next week end I'll be going to Bear
> Lake for some diving. One thing though it is all altitude diving here so bone
> up
> on your conversion tables :-). When you get here just drop a line I'll dive
> with ya.

Powell looks interesting, always wanted to do that one. I have done some
mountain lakes when I was commercial and those man-made things are horrible,
but money's money.

--
Mike Smith
(A Californian living in Plymouth, England)

** America needs real Fish and Chips **
** England needs Prime Rib **

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 95 01:45:34 -0500
From: Bill Muse <wj...@delphi.com>
Subject: Re: Utah
Message-ID: <51LBge...@delphi.com>
Organization: Delphi (in...@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)

Yea! I know what you mean about those manmade lakes. But the ones that aren't
are beautiful. God I love the water!

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1995 23:13:19 GMT
From: j...@ix.netcom.com (James R. Quinby )
Subject: Re: Darren Douglass Tragedy
Message-ID: <3tn3ef$f...@ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom

>
>What, they couldn't just cut it loose? Is there a chance that these
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

(Regarding the anchor line)

Indeed. This very thought crossed my mind. Why *not* just cut the
sucker?

I have been reading the accounts, reports, etc that have appeared
here...as a new diver (hell, I'm not even out of the course yet), I
have been trying to ascertain what can be learned out of this tragedy.
Can any of the gurus in here give a short "core dump" on what the
lessons are?

RE: The Shark Attack thread

In the incident report that I read, the author mentioned that he made
his way to the Zodiac after the bite, gunned the motor to summon his
partners, etc. It sounds to me like the divers weren't together in a
group (they couldn't pair off, there were apparently only three of
them).

Isn't this a violation of the "Dive with a buddy" rule that the
instructors (or mine anyway) are pretty adamant on? I know it's
impossible to second-guess what might have been different if a buddy(s)
as nearby, but I thought this was a pretty set in stone rule.

Still lurking and learning,

Jay
--
James R. Quinby <j...@ix.netcom.com>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Own a 45 mph couch potato: "Wierd scenes inside the gold mine/
adopt a greyhound, write for info. ride the highway west, baby."

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 1995 08:52:29 GMT
From: KG <kde...@PrimeNet.com>
Subject: Darren Douglass Tragedy/Buddy System
Message-ID: <3tqpod$2...@dump.primenet.com>
Organization: Primenet

az...@aol.com (AZDav) wrote:
>>Isn't this a violation of the "Dive with a buddy" rule that the
>instructors (or mine anyway) are pretty adamant on? I know it's
>impossible to second-guess what might have been different if a buddy(s)
>as nearby, but I thought this was a pretty set in stone rule.
>
>The first rule of diving is safety first, not never dive alone which is
>not always practical (as in biological research, photography, and riding a
>scooter).
>
>AZDav

The following is a statement of SCUBA sport heresy, but nevertheless a
commonly held (but unspoken by most) viewpoint: As a matter of fact, this
is one of the fatalities that I would say was CAUSED by the buddy system.
In trying to save his buddy, this fellow died himself. Now, granted, this
was his son, and this wasn't just a buddy, but a father trying to rescue
his son, but I would also direct your attention to another multiple
fatality which occurred years ago at Farnsworth Banks. FOUR PEOPLE died.
Seems that one ran out of air, and then, buddy breathing ran his buddy
out of air too. This happened with two buddy teams on one dive on the
Golden Doubloon.

Question: When I dive with somebody brand new to diving, am I not diving
"alone"? This guy isn't going to get ME out of anything. HE is safer, but
I am not only diving "alone", but I am diving alone with one hand tied
behind my back.

Food for thought ( and fuel for flames )

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 1995 18:21:21 GMT
From: la...@stekt.oulu.fi (Lauri Pirttiaho)
Subject: Re: Darren Douglass Tragedy/Buddy System
Message-ID: <3trr31$2...@ousrvr.oulu.fi>
Organization: University of Oulu

KG (kde...@PrimeNet.com) wrote:
> The following is a statement of SCUBA sport heresy, but nevertheless a
> commonly held (but unspoken by most) viewpoint: As a matter of fact, this
> is one of the fatalities that I would say was CAUSED by the buddy system.

This is probably the thickest kind of bullshit heard sofar. Of the recent
accidents and fatalities reported _none_ was caused by _buddy_system_ and
I haven't heard of any where the sole reason was that there was a buddy.

Diving accidents are caused most often by inadequate skills for the situation
at hand and negligence of safety rules or guidelines. In the referred case
we are talking about both: 1) was the 14 years old qulified to dive to 140'?
2) Was the dive planned and executed according to the established guidelines
for this kind of diving when: a) the buddy was lost during the dive and b)
there was no rescue diver at site with enough bottom time left or skilled
enough to do a decompression dive.

> ... but I would also direct your attention to another multiple
> fatality which occurred years ago at Farnsworth Banks. FOUR PEOPLE died.
> Seems that one ran out of air, and then, buddy breathing ran his buddy
> out of air too.

And this happened on well planned dives? I doubt. And they tried to
surface immediately after the other diver was unable to get breathing
support from his own gear? I doubt again. If you could give more details?

> Question: When I dive with somebody brand new to diving, am I not diving
> "alone"? This guy isn't going to get ME out of anything. HE is safer, but
> I am not only diving "alone", but I am diving alone with one hand tied
> behind my back.

Answer: if you dive with somebody brand new for diving that has adequate
training the somebody is able to rescue you as well as some one else who
has been diving twenty for years two tanks a day. If your buddy is not
qualified then he is not to dive but get the skills under supervision of
qualified instructor.

> Food for thought ( and fuel for flames )

You got some...

-- Lauri

---
<a href="http://ee.oulu.fi/~lapi/">For more info.</a>

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 1995 20:38:11 GMT
From: KG <kde...@PrimeNet.com>
Subject: Re: Darren Douglass Tragedy/Buddy System
Message-ID: <3ts33j$6...@dump.primenet.com>
Organization: Primenet

la...@stekt.oulu.fi (Lauri Pirttiaho) wrote:

>> Food for thought ( and fuel for flames )
>
>You got some...
>
>-- Lauri
>

Yeh, well, since you are free with the adjectives, I think you are fulla
shit yerself sweetie. Your drivvel was typical safety nazi propaganda.

There is no way that you will ever convince ME that a brand new diver is
going to save MY ass if I need them to.

And another question for you: If you are in 30-40 feet of water and for
some reason your regulator quits working, are you going to swim around
and look for your buddy? Or do you have yourself tied to them with a
rope?

Fortunately, you don't write the laws, and I prefer to be a self
sufficient, solo diver. That way, I can spear more fish, which I have a
feeling you don't approve of either. Now,, why is it I don't care? hmmmmm

Thenk yew veddy much.

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 1995 14:32:41 GMT
From: d...@nasa.kodak.com (Dennis DeYoung)
Subject: Re: Darren Douglass Tragedy/Buddy System
Message-ID: <3tu229$r...@kodak.rdcs.Kodak.COM>
Organization: Eastman Kodak Company

In this offering, KG <kde...@PrimeNet.com> amazed us with the following:
>la...@stekt.oulu.fi (Lauri Pirttiaho) wrote:
>
>>> Food for thought ( and fuel for flames )
>>
>>You got some...
>>
>>-- Lauri
>>
>
>Yeh, well, since you are free with the adjectives, I think you are fulla
>shit yerself sweetie. Your drivvel was typical safety nazi propaganda.

I have to agree w/ Lauri. And anyone who thinks safety is related to
Nazi's in any way is likely to be read about in this newgroup someday
as the next tragedy.

The buddy system does not cause problems and the Darren Douglass Tragedy
is not an example of such. If they had been closer in buddy teams, maybe
one of them (the boy) would not have been left down there causing Darren
to go back down. So perhaps better use of the buddy system could have
averted this tragedy. Also, Darren's going back down to look for his son
is not a fault of the buddy system. The buddy system I learned does not
involve going back down past limits looking for a lost buddy. This was
the moral decision of a person who decided to risk his life for that of
his son (or probably anyone whom he thought he could save.) Would you
attempt to save someone knowing you would be putting yourself in personal
danger?

>There is no way that you will ever convince ME that a brand new diver is
>going to save MY ass if I need them to.

Actually any diver who is calm, cool, and collected in a bad situation
could save you. That could be a new or an experienced diver. Working
the gear is not exactly tough for most people. If you have 2000 dives
and nothing strange has ever happened, what makes you better able to
handle it when it does than someone with only 20 dives? Having someone
there who MAY help is better than not I think.

>And another question for you: If you are in 30-40 feet of water and for
>some reason your regulator quits working, are you going to swim around
>and look for your buddy? Or do you have yourself tied to them with a
>rope?

Your buddy should be within easy swimming distance such that you can
get their octopus faster than you could surface w/ an ESA. It's
simply the safer thing to do. If you aren't close enough to your
buddy THEN YOU ARE A BAD BUDDY. I personally try to stay within
about 12' of my buddy and I don't find this hard to do. (We also
never have that problem back at the surface where one says to the
other "Wasn't that turtle huge?" and the other says "What turtle?!")

>Fortunately, you don't write the laws, and I prefer to be a self
>sufficient, solo diver. That way, I can spear more fish, which I have a
>feeling you don't approve of either. Now,, why is it I don't care?

Because you're being a jerk maybe?

- Dennis

d...@nasa.kodak.com

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 95 01:59:09
From: c...@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Carl Heinzl)
Subject: Re: Darren Douglass Tragedy/Buddy System
Message-ID: <CGH.95Ju...@baden.ai.mit.edu>
Organization: M.I.T. Artificial Intelligence Lab.

>the gear is not exactly tough for most people. If you have 2000 dives
>and nothing strange has ever happened, what makes you better able to
>handle it when it does than someone with only 20 dives? Having someone
>there who MAY help is better than not I think.

Personally, I would like to meet anyone that has 2k dives under their
belt without *anything* strange happening. I have had several issues
to deal with, some of them buddy related. Putting together a few of
the problems that I've seen and I've quite easily rationalized myself
into diving with a pony on every dive deeper than roughly 50', and
sometimes carrying it on shallower dives - it just depends - you have
to learn to *read* the dive and when in doubt, take it with you!

-Carl-

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 1995 12:11:54 GMT
From: la...@stekt.oulu.fi (Lauri Pirttiaho)
Subject: Re: Darren Douglass Tragedy/Buddy System
Message-ID: <3ttpqa$f...@ousrvr.oulu.fi>
Organization: University of Oulu

KG (kde...@PrimeNet.com) wrote:
> Yeh, well, since you are free with the adjectives, I think you are fulla
> shit yerself sweetie. Your drivvel was typical safety nazi propaganda.

Dang juu hani. I think safety was not on the nazi propaganda list...

> There is no way that you will ever convince ME that a brand new diver is
> going to save MY ass if I need them to.

Definitely not, until the first one comes...

> And another question for you: If you are in 30-40 feet of water and for
> some reason your regulator quits working, are you going to swim around
> and look for your buddy? Or do you have yourself tied to them with a
> rope?

As a smart guy, there you found the answer. You tie yourself to your
buddy with a rope if the conditions are such that it is necessary.

> Fortunately, you don't write the laws, and I prefer to be a self
> sufficient, solo diver.

Fortunately I don't write. But someone will if the number of accidents
continues to be what it is. I guess you also drive a car without
seatbelt and ride motorcycle without helmet. Feel free as suicide is
protected by constitution. For those who want to dive safely there
is enough information about how to do it.

> Now,, why is it I don't care? hmmmmm

Now, that is a _very_ good question... Some trauma in chidhood, perhaps? ;)

> Thenk yew veddy much.

Juu aa whell cum

-- Lauri

---
<a href="http://ee.oulu.fi/~lapi/">For more info.</a>

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 1995 14:14:33 GMT
From: rdu...@jupiter.coe.northeastern.edu (unknown)
Subject: Re: Darren Douglass Tragedy/Buddy System
Message-ID: <RDUFOUR.95...@jupiter.coe.northeastern.edu>
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA

>Question: When I dive with somebody brand new to diving, am I not diving
>"alone"? This guy isn't going to get ME out of anything. HE is safer, but
>I am not only diving "alone", but I am diving alone with one hand tied
>behind my back.

Even if this person is brand new to diving, they can still save your life.
I know that if my gear fails, there is a ready supply attached to my
buddy. He doesn't have to know anything in order for me to grab his
octopus. I'd rather have my next breath a few kicks away, than try
to do an emergency ascent.

No disrespect to those who have died, but it is unsafe practices like
these that are going to get this sport regulated by the feds. And that
will just hurt all of us who practice safety already.

Roger

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 14:18:38 GMT
From: rai...@netcom.netcom.com (Rain King)
Subject: Re: Darren Douglass Tragedy/Buddy System
Message-ID: <RAINING.95...@netcom.netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line services

In article <3ts33j$6...@dump.primenet.com> KG <kde...@PrimeNet.com> writes:
> la...@stekt.oulu.fi (Lauri Pirttiaho) wrote:
> There is no way that you will ever convince ME that a brand new diver is
> going to save MY ass if I need them to.

Well, I do agree with you for the most part. I would not trust a
new diver, no, actually I do not trust *any* diver regardless of
experience with my life. However, I am anew diver (<25 dives), but
I am adequately trained for the type of diving I do (warm water, no
current, <80 ft, good vis). In this situation, I am a new diver who
*could* save you life as I am sufficiently trained and well-read
on scuba techniques. However, I would never ask you to bet your life
that I would be able to save you even if we knew each other.

Self-sufficiency under water whould not be an option. Once a diver
has spent the $1,000 on their own gear, is it really that much
more to drop another $200-$300 on redundant equipment? You bet its
not! I didn't really have the money to buy a pony bottle, but
for the extra coupla' bucks, it could save my life. Much cheaper
than a funeral and my son growing up without me.

I guess my point is this:
I don't agree with your statement that a new diver cannot save your
life when the time comes, but, like yourself, I ain't bettin' my
life on it either.

> Fortunately, you don't write the laws, and I prefer to be a self
> sufficient, solo diver. That way, I can spear more fish, which I have a

I still prefer to have a buddy around when I am diving, but all
my spearfishing buddies are also self-sufficient divers and we are
generally chasing fish in different directions anyway.

Safe Diving,
JEff[\].
--
....and I am the Rain King
__________________________________________________________________________
She said, "I'm fine, I'm okay". Cover you up trembling hands. There's
indecision when you know you ain't got nothing left. When the good times
never stay and the cheap thrills always seem to fade away. [MHM: (2x3)]

------------------------------

End of rec-scuba Digest
******************************
The article backlog is 485885 bytes, and 365 articles.
SCUBA-D archives can be accessed at http://scifi.maid.com/digests.

ADMIN...@ccmail.wcc.com

unread,

Jul 12, 1995, 3:00:00 AM7/12/95

Message undeliverable at this time

id AA17086; Tue, 11 Jul 95 23:31:50 MDT
Received: from stanley.cis.Brown.EDU (stanley.cis.brown.edu [128.148.176.55]) by listserv.brown.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id AAA09529; Wed, 12 Jul 1995 00:22:11 -0400

Received: from BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU by BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b)

with NJE id 6695 for SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU; Wed, 12 Jul 1995
00:20:47 -0400

Received: from BROWNVM (NJE origin SMTP@BROWNVM) by BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (LMail

V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2080; Wed, 12 Jul 1995 00:20:47 -0400

Received: from scifi.maid.com by BROWNVM.brown.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP;

Wed, 12 Jul 95 00:20:26 EDT
Received: (from njs@localhost) by scifi.maid.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA02276;
Wed, 12 Jul 1995 00:17:02 -0400
Approved-By: Nick Simicich <n...@SCIFI.EMI.NET>
Message-Id: <1995071204...@scifi.maid.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 00:17:02 -0400

Reply-To: rec-...@cs.utexas.edu
Sender: Scuba Digest Redistribution <SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
From: Nick Simicich <n...@scifi.emi.net>

Subject: rec-scuba Digest V4 #598

To: Multiple recipients of list SCUBA-D <SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>

rec-scuba Digest Wed, 12 Jul 95 Volume 4 : Issue 598

Today's Topics:
Alberta Diving?
Death of "Dumbass" Nick Comoglio
Death of Nick Comoglio (1) [9]
Death of Nick Comoglio (2)
Death of Nick Comoglio (3)
Death of Nick Comoglio (4) [9]
Death of Nick Comoglio (5) [3]
Deep dives on air (was Death of Nick...) [2]
Snorkeling, (fwd) [4]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Jul 1995 10:27:27 GMT
From: mi...@msmith.demon.co.uk (Mike Smith)
Subject: Re: Alberta Diving?
Message-ID: <19950708....@msmith.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Mike's Software

In message <3te4c0$d...@nrcnet0.nrc.ca> Les Woolsey wrote:

> In article <3t9ajg$n...@bernie.compusmart.ab.ca>,
> afai...@compusmart.ab.ca says...
> >
> >I am a newly ceritifed diver who lives in Alberta. I can definitely
> >not afford the time or money to go to the exotic locations everyone
> >writes about in here.
> >
> >Does anyone know of any interesting dives in Alberta, or B.C.?

I always wanted to do Cold Lake near the Sach border. People go ice fishing
and drive their vehicals on the ice and lose them in the water. I figured
it might be fun to see how much of the vehicals you can salvage for
scrap. You'd make a fortune.

--
Mike Smith
(A Californian living in Plymouth, England)

** America needs real Fish and Chips **
** England needs Prime Rib **

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 15:35:32 -0400
From: Ray McAllister <mcal...@gate.net>
Subject: Snorkeling, (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.950708...@hopi.gate.net>

>From bur...@UCSU.COLORADO.EDUSat Jul 8 15:34:34 1995
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 18:19:47 -0600
From: BURNS PAUL CHARLES <bur...@UCSU.COLORADO.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list SCUBA-SE <SCUB...@UTCVM.UTC.EDU>
Subject: snorkeling (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 13:46:25 -0600 (MDT)
From: BURNS PAUL CHARLES <bur...@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
To: scu...@Brownvm.brown.edu.
Subject: snorkeling

My wife and I have decided to stop diving for a few years for various
personal reasons. So, we are looking for high quality snorkeling sites.
One problem that has come up is that when I talk to hotels and travel
agents (and even some dive operators!), I am told, "Well, the diving is
good, so the snorkeling must be also." Not so, Joe. The snorkelers want
to see the fish and the fish want to eat the reef (and each other), so
the coral needs to be near the surface and hopefully, near the beach.
The ideal spot is Hanauma Bay on Oahu, but that may be a one of a kind
situation and besides, the place is crawling with people by 10 am.

I have forgotten the name of the little island just off of the coast of
Bonaire (Little Bonaire? Arid Bonaire? . . . . whatever), but we did
have some good snorkeling there. The reef comes pretty close to the
surface. But, that involves being locked into the boat schedule. There
is some fun snorkeling right in front of some of the hotels in Bonaire,
but it's mostly sand and grasses, not really coral.

I have heard that Little Cayman has good snorkeling close to the beach -
anybody know about that?

By the way, for those of you who have kids, when we took our children to
Bonaire years ago - they were maybe ten and eight years old at the time -
we put ladies small-sized wet suit tops on them and tied the ends of the
beaver tails together -- the kids felt completely buoyant, confident and
safe and were even able to go night snorkeling with us with their own
dive lights (good for locating octopi).

In any event, does anyone out there know of snorkeling spots that meet
the coral close to the surface and close to the beach requirements? Or
of other bulletin boards that this message might be posted on?

Thanks - Charley Burns

Ray McAllister, Prof (Emeritus) Ocean Eng., FAU, Boca Raton, FL 33064
Diving Dinosaur, Geologist/Oceanographer/Ocean Engineer, 43 years SCUBA
mcal...@gate.net (305) 426-0808, Author Diving Locations, Boynton/Dania

------------------------------

Date: 9 Jul 1995 19:46:47 GMT
From: j...@mits.mdata.fi (Joni Jarvenkyla)
Subject: Re: Snorkeling, (fwd)
Message-ID: <3tpbn7$9...@prime.mdata.fi>
Organization: Mits BBS, Helsinki, Finland (40+ Nodes +358-0-4582066)

In article <Pine.A32.3.91.950708...@hopi.gate.net>,
Ray McAllister <mcal...@gate.net> wrote:
>
>I have heard that Little Cayman has good snorkeling close to the beach -
>anybody know about that?

The coral reefs of Belize are said to be the second best (to what?) in
the world, but I don't know anything more specific. I'd like to hear
about good snorkeling places too, because it's such a natural way to
experience sea nature (only minimum of equipment).

--
DMT Finland Oy tuoteluettelo: http://mits.mdata.fi/~jjj

Ja uusi puhelinnumero: (90) 458 40 20

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 1995 17:19:09 GMT
From: john nash <jna...@worldbank.org@internet>
Subject: Re: Snorkeling, (fwd)
Message-ID: <3trned$4...@minerva.worldbank.org>
Organization: The World Bank Group

j...@mits.mdata.fi (Joni Jarvenkyla) wrote:
>
> In article <Pine.A32.3.91.950708...@hopi.gate.net>,
> Ray McAllister <mcal...@gate.net> wrote:
> >
> >I have heard that Little Cayman has good snorkeling close to the beach -
> >anybody know about that?
>
> The coral reefs of Belize are said to be the second best (to what?) in
> the world, but I don't know anything more specific. I'd like to hear
> about good snorkeling places too, because it's such a natural way to
> experience sea nature (only minimum of equipment).
>
> --
> DMT Finland Oy tuoteluettelo: http://mits.mdata.fi/~jjj
>
> Ja uusi puhelinnumero: (90) 458 40 20
The best off the beach snorkelling I've seen in the Caribbean
is off El Presidente Hotel in Cozumel. Snorkelling is also excellent
off Rutland Point in Negril, Jamaica. Access is easy from Hedonism II
, Grand Lido,or a group of condos that I think is called Point
Village. All of these are on Rutland Point.

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 1995 21:34:19 GMT
From: ni...@azul.az.stratus.com (nina)
Subject: Re: Snorkeling, (fwd)
Message-ID: <3ts6cr$3...@transfer.stratus.com>
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA

My husband and I would recommend Grand Cayman for good snorkling. We
found many fantastic snorkling spots which were right off the beach. All
the different areas were varied as to what we could see. For me, the most
exciting of all was snorkling about a wreck only a short distance from
shore. Yes! Most definitely, I'd recommend Grand Cayman for snorkling!
Nina :)
ni...@azul.az.stratus.com

In article <Pine.A32.3.91.950708...@hopi.gate.net> Ray
McAllister <mcal...@gate.net> writes:
> From bur...@UCSU.COLORADO.EDUSat Jul 8 15:34:34 1995
> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 18:19:47 -0600
> From: BURNS PAUL CHARLES <bur...@UCSU.COLORADO.EDU>
> To: Multiple recipients of list SCUBA-SE <SCUB...@UTCVM.UTC.EDU>
> Subject: snorkeling (fwd)
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 13:46:25 -0600 (MDT)
> From: BURNS PAUL CHARLES <bur...@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
> To: scu...@Brownvm.brown.edu.
> Subject: snorkeling
>
> My wife and I have decided to stop diving for a few years for various
> personal reasons. So, we are looking for high quality snorkeling sites.
> One problem that has come up is that when I talk to hotels and travel
> agents (and even some dive operators!), I am told, "Well, the diving is
> good, so the snorkeling must be also." Not so, Joe. The snorkelers
want
> to see the fish and the fish want to eat the reef (and each other), so
> the coral needs to be near the surface and hopefully, near the beach.
> The ideal spot is Hanauma Bay on Oahu, but that may be a one of a kind
> situation and besides, the place is crawling with people by 10 am.
>
> I have forgotten the name of the little island just off of the coast of
> Bonaire (Little Bonaire? Arid Bonaire? . . . . whatever), but we did
> have some good snorkeling there. The reef comes pretty close to the
> surface. But, that involves being locked into the boat schedule. There
> is some fun snorkeling right in front of some of the hotels in Bonaire,
> but it's mostly sand and grasses, not really coral.
>
> I have heard that Little Cayman has good snorkeling close to the beach -
> anybody know about that?
>
> By the way, for those of you who have kids, when we took our children to
> Bonaire years ago - they were maybe ten and eight years old at the time
-
> we put ladies small-sized wet suit tops on them and tied the ends of the
> beaver tails together -- the kids felt completely buoyant, confident and
> safe and were even able to go night snorkeling with us with their own
> dive lights (good for locating octopi).
>
> In any event, does anyone out there know of snorkeling spots that meet
> the coral close to the surface and close to the beach requirements? Or
> of other bulletin boards that this message might be posted on?
>
> Thanks - Charley Burns
>
> Ray McAllister, Prof (Emeritus) Ocean Eng., FAU, Boca Raton, FL 33064
> Diving Dinosaur, Geologist/Oceanographer/Ocean Engineer, 43 years SCUBA
> mcal...@gate.net (305) 426-0808, Author Diving Locations, Boynton/Dania
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1995 12:35:18 GMT
From: Carl.A.Gaines, "Jr." <75234...@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Death of Nick Comoglio (1)
Message-ID: <3tlu26$n5n$1...@mhadf.production.compuserve.com>
Organization: via CompuServe Information Service

Report on the Death of Nick Comoglio

As an eyewitness to the tragic last dive of Nick Comoglio,
practicing for a world record deep dive, I offer the following
recollections of the events of the fatal dive.

My wife and I were aboard a recreational charter vessel about two
miles off the southeast coast of Florida, Monday, July 3, 1995.
In addition to the recreational divers, aboard were the captain,
his young son, three crew members, and Mr. Comoglio. The weather
was nearly ideal -- 85 degrees, 5% clouds, seas less than two
feet, and light winds. Although it was a recreational charter,
the dive shop clearly emphasizes technical diving, providing
technical training, gas diving mixes, and dive charters for
technically-certified divers to sites well below the recreational
diving limits. Prior to leaving the dock, the captain informed
us that Nick Comoglio would conduct a deep dive to 450 feet as
practice for his world record attempt of 550 feet on compressed
air scheduled for July 22. The captain indicated that this was
Mr. Comoglio's twentieth practice dive, the last one having
occurred two days earlier.

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 1995 00:01:06 GMT
From: am...@cup.cam.ac.uk (Andy Mell)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick Comoglio (1)
Message-ID: <3tpqk2$q...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Organization: University of Cambridge, England

CarlA.Gaines wrote:

: Prior to leaving the dock, the captain informed us that Nick
: Comoglio would conduct a deep dive to 450 feet as practice
: for his world record attempt of 550 feet on compressed air
: scheduled for July 22.

450ft=137m, 550ft=168m. Sheesh. Thats a deathwish if I ever
saw one, thats not diving, its virtually committing suicide.

: The captain indicated that this was Mr. Comoglio's
: twentieth practice dive, the last one having occurred
: two days earlier.

Isnt there something about oxygen toxicity units for repeated
exposure to high partial pressures of oxygen? Was this man
diving on normal atmospheric air? Im surprised that he did
it off a boat full of recreational divers with no apparent
surface support (chamber etc) or even tying himself to a
very long piece of rope.

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 20:47:27 GMT
From: tben...@vnet.ibm.com (Tim Bengtson)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick Comoglio (1)
Message-ID: <19950710....@vnet.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM San Jose

In article <3trgap$h...@gaia.ucs.orst.edu>,
on 10 Jul 1995 15:17:45 GMT,
Stephen M Dodd <sd...@OES.ORST.EDU> writes:

>>Isnt there something about oxygen toxicity units for repeated
>>exposure to high partial pressures of oxygen?
>
> Oxygen does not build up in the body after repeated exposures to
> pressure becasue it is consumed. Nitrogen is 4 times as common in air
> and is not consumed by the body and will build up through repeated
> exposure.
>
> Oxygen toxcity appears as the partial pressure of oxygen rises beyond
> the level of 100% at surface pressures.

But oxygen toxicity is time-related; there are limits for single exposures,
and also maximum daily exposures for divers making repetitive dives. If the
single exposure limit is 1.6 ATA PO2 for 45 minutes by the table, making
two such dives in a 24-hour period is *much* more risky. (It may even violate
the limits; I don't have any tables handy.)

By calculating and keeping tabs on oxygen toxicity units (OTU), a diver can
monitor O2 exposure through the day, and, presumably, avoid convulsing.

Tim

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 1995 16:57:36 GMT
From: ham...@star.enet.dec.com (Charlie Hammond)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick Comoglio (1)
Message-ID: <3tuai0$l...@alphabits.shr.dec.com>
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <3tu97g$5...@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>,
st...@ibg.ljo.dec.com (Doug Stell) writes:

>The effects of nitogen [at depth of 450'] must have been such that this diver
>was totally stoned at this depth. The ppN2 would have been 11.5 ata.

For sure. This depth requires a "unique" individual!

>Narcosis starts to set in around 3.2 (eqiv of 100 FSW) and the limit is
>generally taken to be 4.0, from which the 130/140 FSW limit is derived.

Now lets see here... PN2 of 3.2 with FN2 79% results in ~130ft.
And 4.0 similary results in something around 170ft. Can you exlpain
your numbers, please? And what is your basis (source) for the 4.0 limit?
It may be correct, but I've never heard/seen it so stated before.

(Note: PN2 means "Partial preasure of nitrogey;
FN2 means "Fraction of nitrogen")
--
Charlie Hammond -- Digital Equipment Corporation -- Nashua NH USA

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect
my employer's position.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 18:18:26 GMT
From: mi...@msmith.demon.co.uk (Mike Smith)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick Comoglio (1)
Message-ID: <19950710....@msmith.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Mike's Software

In message <3tpqk2$q...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> Andy Mell wrote:

> Isnt there something about oxygen toxicity units for repeated
> exposure to high partial pressures of oxygen? Was this man
> diving on normal atmospheric air? Im surprised that he did

It couldn't have been straight air. I am not chemically minded
but a simplistic explanation of nitrogen in the blood stream
is that under pressure it merges with the oxygen and creates
nitros-oxide, which is the laughing gas you get at the dentist.

The nitrogen needs to be replaced by something like Helium.

I've heard stories of guys venturing past 250 feet on straight
air, slating on their boards "I'm staying forever" and cutting
their second stages off with their knives.

> it off a boat full of recreational divers with no apparent
> surface support (chamber etc) or even tying himself to a
> very long piece of rope.

--
Mike Smith
(A Californian living in Plymouth, England)

** America needs real Fish and Chips **
** England needs Prime Rib **

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 11:41:12 GMT
From: ken...@cfa269.harvard.edu (Almus Kenter)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick Comoglio (1)
Message-ID: <DBJv4...@cfanews.harvard.edu>
Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA, USA

Mike Smith (mi...@msmith.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: In message <3tpqk2$q...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> Andy Mell wrote:

: > Isnt there something about oxygen toxicity units for repeated
: > exposure to high partial pressures of oxygen? Was this man
: > diving on normal atmospheric air? Im surprised that he did

: It couldn't have been straight air. I am not chemically minded
: but a simplistic explanation of nitrogen in the blood stream
: is that under pressure it merges with the oxygen and creates
: nitros-oxide, which is the laughing gas you get at the dentist.

it's not simplistic...it's wrong... Nitrogen under pressure
``dissolves'' into your tissue and the net effect is the same as
anesthesia..... If nitrogen and oxygen under modest pressures
formed nitrous oxide it would form in your scuba tank...now
wouldn't that be fun.....

--Almus

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 1995 23:00:57 GMT
From: le...@diver.asd.sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Subject: Deep dives on air (was Death of Nick...)
Message-ID: <3tsbf9$s...@fido.asd.sgi.com>
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Incorporated

In article <19950710....@msmith.demon.co.uk>,
Mike Smith <mi...@msmith.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>It couldn't have been straight air. I am not chemically minded
>but a simplistic explanation of nitrogen in the blood stream
>is that under pressure it merges with the oxygen and creates
>nitros-oxide, which is the laughing gas you get at the dentist.
>
>The nitrogen needs to be replaced by something like Helium.

I agree with your statement that you're not chemically minded. You do
*not* get Nitrous Oxide by breathing air under pressure.

Divers *have* successfully performed 400' dives on just air. Not many
divers have done this, and it seems like a fairly good way to die,
because of oxygen poisoning and/or nitrogen narcosis. However, your
statement is simply wrong. There are many recorded dives on pure air to 300
and 400 feet. I believe that Bret Gilliam reached 450' on air (off Mary's
Place in Roatan). It's not something I'd advocate, but Bret Gilliam is more
fish than human.

Please don't say things that simply aren't true - if you're not sure,
just be quiet.

Regards, Lee

"One of the amazing things about the Net is that there's almost always
somebody out there that knows more about almost *anything* than you
do. I've learned to tread very carefully..."

--
Lee Jones | "In that case I don't want no part (I do believe that)
le...@sgi.com | That would only break my heart.
415-390-3356 | -Smokey Robinson

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 1995 13:45:13 GMT
From: ham...@star.enet.dec.com (Charlie Hammond)
Subject: Re: Deep dives on air (was Death of Nick...)
Message-ID: <3ttv99$n...@alphabits.shr.dec.com>
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <3tsbf9$s...@fido.asd.sgi.com>,
le...@diver.asd.sgi.com (Lee Jones) writes:

>I believe that Bret Gilliam reached 450' on air (off Mary's Place in Roatan).

If my memory is correct....
Bret held the record at 450 feet, and later at 475. I believe that the current
record is 490; I don't know who holds it. (Not Bret.)
--
Charlie Hammond -- Digital Equipment Corporation -- Nashua NH USA

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect
my employer's position.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 10:18:37 GMT
From: j...@festival.ed.ac.uk (J Shepherd)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick Comoglio (1)
Message-ID: <DBJrB...@festival.ed.ac.uk>
Organization: Edinburgh University

mi...@msmith.demon.co.uk (Mike Smith) writes:

>In message <3tpqk2$q...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> Andy Mell wrote:

>> Isnt there something about oxygen toxicity units for repeated
>> exposure to high partial pressures of oxygen? Was this man
>> diving on normal atmospheric air? Im surprised that he did

>The nitrogen needs to be replaced by something like Helium.

>I've heard stories of guys venturing past 250 feet on straight
>air, slating on their boards "I'm staying forever" and cutting
>their second stages off with their knives.

>> it off a boat full of recreational divers with no apparent
>> surface support (chamber etc) or even tying himself to a
>> very long piece of rope.

>--
>Mike Smith
>(A Californian living in Plymouth, England)

> ** America needs real Fish and Chips **
> ** England needs Prime Rib **

It appears that it *was* straight air. BTW if O2 and N2 interact
like that, why doesn't that happen in the tank?

To be honest the methodology sounded dodgy; and besides, there's
a record of 525 feet already. And if I recall the proud owner of that
record (Dan Mannion) was put in a wheelchair by deep air diving. Does
anyone know how he's getting on?

Jason.

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 1995 15:17:45 GMT
From: sd...@OES.ORST.EDU (Stephen M Dodd)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick Comoglio (1)
Message-ID: <3trgap$h...@gaia.ucs.orst.edu>
Organization: Oregon Extension Service

In article <3tpqk2$q...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>,
Andy Mell <am...@cup.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>CarlA.Gaines wrote:
>
>Isnt there something about oxygen toxicity units for repeated
>exposure to high partial pressures of oxygen? Was this man
>diving on normal atmospheric air? Im surprised that he did
>it off a boat full of recreational divers with no apparent
>surface support (chamber etc) or even tying himself to a
>very long piece of rope.
>

Oxygen does not build up in the body after repeated exposures to
pressure becasue it is consumed. Nitrogen is 4 times as common in air
and is not consumed by the body and will build up through repeated
exposure.

Oxygen toxcity appears as the partial pressure of oxygen rises beyond
the level of 100% at surface pressures.

Steve

>Andy

--
- Stephen M. Dodd, Computer Systems Coordinator ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oregon State University Extension Service
sd...@oes.orst.edu Internet Oregon State University
Voice 503-737-3550 FAX 503-737-4423 Corvallis, OR 97331

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 1995 16:02:30 GMT
From: sd...@OES.ORST.EDU (Stephen M Dodd)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick Comoglio (1)
Message-ID: <3trium$k...@gaia.ucs.orst.edu>
Organization: Oregon Extension Service

In article <3tlu26$n5n$1...@mhadf.production.compuserve.com>,
Carl A. Gaines, Jr. <75234...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>Report on the Death of Nick Comoglio
>
>As an eyewitness to the tragic last dive of Nick Comoglio,
>practicing for a world record deep dive, I offer the following
>recollections of the events of the fatal dive.
>
>My wife and I were aboard a recreational charter vessel about two
>miles off the southeast coast of Florida, Monday, July 3, 1995.
> In addition to the recreational divers, aboard were the captain,
>his young son, three crew members, and Mr. Comoglio. The weather
>was nearly ideal -- 85 degrees, 5% clouds, seas less than two
>feet, and light winds. Although it was a recreational charter,
>the dive shop clearly emphasizes technical diving, providing
>technical training, gas diving mixes, and dive charters for
>technically-certified divers to sites well below the recreational
>diving limits. Prior to leaving the dock, the captain informed
>us that Nick Comoglio would conduct a deep dive to 450 feet as
>practice for his world record attempt of 550 feet on compressed
>air scheduled for July 22. The captain indicated that this was
>Mr. Comoglio's twentieth practice dive, the last one having
>occurred two days earlier.
>
>--
>

Again and again over the years we see the death of various divers
attempting various depth records. It seems that what doesn't get a
diver today gets him tomorrow. I cannot find sufficient words to
express my distaste for this kind of activity and the impression it
leaves on other divers. The odds are very much stacked against the
probability of making such a dive under any semblance of scientific
control. It is a simple crap shoot.

If one wishes to set some sort of record why not choose to do something
worthwhile ??????

Steve
--
- Stephen M. Dodd, Computer Systems Coordinator ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oregon State University Extension Service
sd...@oes.orst.edu Internet Oregon State University
Voice 503-737-3550 FAX 503-737-4423 Corvallis, OR 97331

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 1995 04:26:46 -0700
From: jben...@crl.com (Jeff Bentley)
Subject: Re: Death of "Dumbass" Nick Comoglio
Message-ID: <3tr2pm$j...@crl.crl.com>
Organization: CRL Network Services (415) 705-6060 [Login: guest]

Air at this depth evaluate to ~3 ATA of O2. Yes sir you are
correct... This guy is/was an utter dumbass...

convulsivly yours,

Jeff Bentley
jben...@crl.com

In article <3tpqk2$q...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>,
Andy Mell <am...@cup.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>CarlA.Gaines wrote:
>
>: Prior to leaving the dock, the captain informed us that Nick
>: Comoglio would conduct a deep dive to 450 feet as practice
>: for his world record attempt of 550 feet on compressed air
>: scheduled for July 22.
>
>450ft=137m, 550ft=168m. Sheesh. Thats a deathwish if I ever
>saw one, thats not diving, its virtually committing suicide.
>
>: The captain indicated that this was Mr. Comoglio's
>: twentieth practice dive, the last one having occurred
>: two days earlier.
>
>Isnt there something about oxygen toxicity units for repeated
>exposure to high partial pressures of oxygen? Was this man
>diving on normal atmospheric air? Im surprised that he did
>it off a boat full of recreational divers with no apparent
>surface support (chamber etc) or even tying himself to a
>very long piece of rope.
>
>Andy

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1995 12:36:48 GMT
From: Carl.A.Gaines, "Jr." <75234...@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Death of Nick Comoglio (2)
Message-ID: <3tlu50$n5n$2...@mhadf.production.compuserve.com>
Organization: via CompuServe Information Service

(It is my opinion that the dive operation was merely providing a
paid boat trip during which Mr. Comoglio could practice, and that
the operation was not actively sponsoring or promoting the
activity. The captain indicated that the dive operator had a
contract with Mr. Comoglio which disclaimed any liability on the
part of the dive operator. The captain indicated that he had
told Mr. Comoglio that he was crazy to attempt this record, but
he did, however, refer to himself as the diver's "coach.")

The underwater conditions on our recreational dive were good -- a
light south-to-north current, 80-82 degrees water temperature,
and about 60 feet of visibility with moderate suspended solids at
our maximum depth of 70 feet. The boat then moved quickly to the
450-foot depth contour. A descent line was rigged from about four
available lengths of the boat's tackle with a small mushroom
anchor on the end. According to my watch Mr. Comoglio made his
entry at about 11:53 a.m. He was wearing an O'Neill wet suit and
hood with a 161 cubic foot air tank and an oxygen tank for the
higher decompression stops. There were no safety divers. At the
top of the line was a float ball and small dive flag. The line
was paid out in a minute or two. After only about three or four
minutes the captain indicated that Mr. Comoglio should be at the
bottom and on his way up.

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1995 12:38:14 GMT
From: Carl.A.Gaines, "Jr." <75234...@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Death of Nick Comoglio (3)
Message-ID: <3tlu7m$n5n$3...@mhadf.production.compuserve.com>
Organization: via CompuServe Information Service

After about seven or eight minutes, the float, which was not
attached to the boat had drifted about 75 yards north. We
motored over and noted a few bubbles visible. A crew member in
snorkel gear jumped in to the top of the line and gave the
pre-arranged "OK?" query signal, two upward yanks on the line and
reported a return two-down-yank "OK" by the diver. About this
time the captain allowed his son to swim to the line.

About fifteen or twenty minutes after the start of the dive, the
captain again moved the boat about 50 yards over to the float.
This time there were no bubbles. The captain said something
might have gone wrong. After three attempts to communicate with
the diver by pulling on the line, the captain directed the crew
member to free dive to about thirty feet to see if he could make
visual contact. When he surfaced, he reported no sighting and no
bubbles. The captain then directed another crew member to don
scuba gear and go down to no deeper than 100 feet to see if he
could see Mr. Comoglio or his bubbles. After a few minutes, the
search diver returned to the surface and indicated he had seen
nothing -- no bubbles or diver.

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1995 12:39:21 GMT
From: Carl.A.Gaines, "Jr." <75234...@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Death of Nick Comoglio (4)
Message-ID: <3tlu9p$n5n$4...@mhadf.production.compuserve.com>
Organization: via CompuServe Information Service

A few minutes later the captain reported the missing diver to the
Coast Guard, who arrived in about an hour, along with the sheriff
and police. They interviewed the captain and took over the
search. The captain offerred to take us on our second dive. The
majority declined and the captain said we would receive a refund
for the missed second dive and unused tanks. We returned to the
dock where the captain asked us to refer any reporters' questions
to him.

Questions:

1. Does it show proper technical diving professionalism,
technique and procedures to attempt such a dive under these
circumstances, the surface interval of a recreational two-tank
dive -- without safety divers in the water to monitor the events,
assist in the event of problems, and/or provide eyewitness
accounts of the events, causes and results, and without
instruments or communications to monitor the progress of the
dive?

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1995 23:12:37 -0400
From: t...@umcc.umcc.umich.edu (Tim Tyler)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick Comoglio (4)
Message-ID: <3tnhf5$f...@umcc.umcc.umich.edu>
Organization: University of Michigan Computing Club (UMCC)

In article <3tlu9p$n5n$4...@mhadf.production.compuserve.com>,
Carl A. Gaines, Jr. <75234...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>
>Questions:
>
>1. Does it show proper technical diving professionalism,
>technique and procedures to attempt such a dive under these
>circumstances, the surface interval of a recreational two-tank
>dive -- without safety divers in the water to monitor the events,
>assist in the event of problems, and/or provide eyewitness
>accounts of the events, causes and results, and without
>instruments or communications to monitor the progress of the
>dive?

(IMHO) No, it just showed stupidity on the part of that diver,
and in this instance, the penalty for his stupidity was the death
sentence! My only sympathy is for you & the rest of the people on the
boat who felt bad & didn't make your dives.

On the positive side, hopefully some fish got a nice meal...

Tim

--
Tim Tyler Internet: t...@umcc.umich.edu GEnie: T.Tyler5 AOL: Hooligan
P.O. Box 443 Amateur Radio: KA8VIR @WB8ZPN.#SEMI.MI.USA.NOAM
Ypsilanti, MI
48197-0443 In cyberspace, noone can hear you scream.

------------------------------

Date: 9 Jul 1995 11:04:15 -0400
From: tryin...@aol.com (Trying2Fly)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick Comoglio (4)
Message-ID: <3tor5f$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

>>
>>1. Does it show proper technical diving professionalism,
>>technique and procedures to attempt such a dive under these
>>circumstances,

It is easy to say no now,and to criticize the capt. However if this guy
had been sucsessfull you would have been writing a completely different
letter, and been very happy about it.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Jul 1995 20:21:45 GMT
From: mi...@msmith.demon.co.uk (Mike Smith)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick Comoglio (4)

Message-ID: <19950709....@msmith.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Mike's Software

In message <3tor5f$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Trying2Fly wrote:

>
> >>
> >>1. Does it show proper technical diving professionalism,
> >>technique and procedures to attempt such a dive under these
> >>circumstances,
>
> It is easy to say no now,and to criticize the capt. However if this guy
> had been sucsessfull you would have been writing a completely different
> letter, and been very happy about it.

The problem is what sort of support could one have given the guy? No one
could have gone after him. There are chaps working at 400 in bells but
they don't surface for a week. It was a suicide mission anyway.

--
Mike Smith
(A Californian living in Plymouth, England)

** America needs real Fish and Chips **
** England needs Prime Rib **

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 1995 15:34:27 GMT
From: BDC...@prodigy.com (Charles Badoian)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick Comoglio (4)
Message-ID: <3trha3$1s...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>

Organization: Prodigy Services Company 1-800-PRODIGY

>The problem is what sort of support could one have given the guy? No
one
>could have gone after him. There are chaps working at 400 in bells but
>they don't surface for a week. It was a suicide mission anyway.
>--
>Mike Smith

Mike,
Remember HE was trying to beat a record therefore his practice runs were
not at the point of the record. Also I think that it was Capt. Billy
Deans who was support diver for the last breath hold dive record and he
was down at 400FSW plus. Some of the more knowledgable technical divers
are going down to 300-400 FSW on scuba not surface supplied, who is to
say that the problem occured at maximum depth and not on accent, to say
there was no way to support this kind of operation is mistaken it all
depends on sponsors and cashflow.

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 1995 16:35:12 GMT
From: Dan Volker <d...@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Death of Nick Comoglio (4)
Message-ID: <3trks0$1c...@news.gate.net>

Organization: South Florida Dive Journal

Carl A. Gaines, Jr. <75234...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>
>A few minutes later the captain reported the missing diver to the
>Coast Guard, who arrived in about an hour, along with the sheriff
>and police. They interviewed the captain and took over the
>search. The captain offerred to take us on our second dive. The
>majority declined and the captain said we would receive a refund
>for the missed second dive and unused tanks. We returned to the
>dock where the captain asked us to refer any reporters' questions
>to him.
>
>Questions:
>
>1. Does it show proper technical diving professionalism,
>technique and procedures to attempt such a dive under these
>circumstances, the surface interval of a recreational two-tank
>dive -- without safety divers in the water to monitor the events,
>assist in the event of problems, and/or provide eyewitness
>accounts of the events, causes and results, and without
>instruments or communications to monitor the progress of the
>dive?
>
>--
>
Carl,
This death was not the death of a technical diver. It was the death of a
fool. To suggest this should have implications to the practices used by
technical divers is to avoid the real lesson which can be learned here.

Personal deep air record attempts are for suicidal morons. The same
person could just as easily dive out of the top of an eight story
building into a swimming pool below, so that they could boast about their
death defying act later.

Safety divers are not a solution in this scenario. You can't make suicide
attempts safe. The captain of the boat was performing taxi service, and
thats fine. No one else is responsible for someone with a deep air record
attempt, unless this person was to hire a team to go down with him (he
did not).

There is no similarity to going down even the relatively shallow depth of
300 feet (just to touch bottom so you can say you have dived to 300
feet) and the concept of a mixed gas technical exposure to 300 feet (on
to a shipwreck covered with fish and sharks and the mystery surrounding
its deep water resting site). The deep air record diver has the
emotional maturity of a five year old. The technical diver is using the
best equipment, gas mixes and training to "safely and intelligently"
visit an alien and harsh environment, to experience a wilderness that has
not existed on the 60 foot reefs since the advent of commercial net
fishing..

Many of these big record holder types who have not yet killed
themselves, like Nick Comoglio, create a mystique around themselves like
the "Great White Hunter" in old movies. When these "hero types" are on
dive boats, too many recreational divers are in awe of them. They sound
larger than life. The real danger is that their attitudes can be
infectuous. There are divers who will listen to the macho stories, and
desire to do this themselves, as if this were some kind of "Holy Grail"
which would make people respect them more.

No one should have respect for deep air record divers. They are bad for
diving, and they are bad for humanity. I feel sorry for the families of
people like Nick, and only hope that the families of the "next Nick" care
enough about their would be hero to get him psychological help before he
kills himself, and creates another sad day for diving.

Dan Volker

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 95 00:09:19
From: c...@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Carl Heinzl)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick Comoglio (4)

Message-ID: <CGH.95Ju...@baden.ai.mit.edu>
Organization: M.I.T. Artificial Intelligence Lab.

>The problem is what sort of support could one have given the guy? No one
>could have gone after him. There are chaps working at 400 in bells but
>they don't surface for a week. It was a suicide mission anyway.

#1) They could have had safety divers down there *with* him diving mix.
#2) They could have had a portable chamber (granted, these aren't
cheap, but $15k for something like this is a reasonable precaution
when you're practicising for something like this.

Without knowing specifics, I feel that most likely adequate precautions
were NOT taken becuase of the cost involved.

-Carl-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 00:29:54 +0200
From: hajo...@m.isar.de (Hajo Schmidt)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick Comoglio (4)
Message-ID: <hajo-dive-110...@hajo-dive.m.isar.de>
Organization: Divers Do It Deeper

In article <CGH.95Ju...@baden.ai.mit.edu>, c...@zurich.ai.mit.edu
(Carl Heinzl) wrote:

> >The problem is what sort of support could one have given the guy? No one
> >could have gone after him. There are chaps working at 400 in bells but
> >they don't surface for a week. It was a suicide mission anyway.
>
> #1) They could have had safety divers down there *with* him diving mix.
> #2) They could have had a portable chamber (granted, these aren't
> cheap, but $15k for something like this is a reasonable precaution
> when you're practicising for something like this.
>
> Without knowing specifics, I feel that most likely adequate precautions
> were NOT taken becuase of the cost involved.
>
> -Carl-

You think it4s of any use to have safety posts for attempted suicide?? At
least this "sportsman" safed the money for the last portable chamber |
---
|
|

--
e-mail: hajo...@m.isar.de

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 1995 01:49:25 -0400
From: tryin...@aol.com (Trying2Fly)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick Comoglio (4)
Message-ID: <3tqf15$k...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

In article <19950709....@msmith.demon.co.uk>,
mi...@msmith.demon.co.uk (Mike Smith) writes:

>
>The problem is what sort of support could one have given the guy? No one
>could have gone after him. There are chaps working at 400 in bells but
>they don't surface for a week. It was a suicide mission anyway.
>
>--

Yes, I agree. I saw a story on TV about that guy who did a very deep
breath hold dive. He had several divers at various depths, just in case.
He was still crazy, but at least prepared.

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1995 12:40:06 GMT
From: Carl.A.Gaines, "Jr." <75234...@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Death of Nick Comoglio (5)
Message-ID: <3tlub6$n5n$5...@mhadf.production.compuserve.com>
Organization: via CompuServe Information Service

2. Is it proper to allow or attempt such a technical,
potentially fatal dive during the surface interval of a two-tank
recreational dive? Does this give a positive and serious image
of the technical diving community to recreational divers? Does
it show proper recognition and respect for the dangers associated
with technical diving? Is it the proper environment to offer
safety, support, and documentation of such dangerous and
information-rich undertakings? Does it leave an impression of
the technical community as safety-conscious and interested in the
advancement of knowledge about diving or as simply goal-driven
and recklessly adventurous?

3. Does the technical diving community haveestablish some
widely-accepted protocols for safety and documentation to make
the risks reasonable relative to the rewards and to
scientifically record data essential to our growth of knowledge
about humans' survival in the alien ocean environment? Aren't
fewer divers lost today due to such diving rules and technical
practices? Aren't we safer because of dive association rules,
dive tables and computers, all of which were developed as a
result of proper recording of the effects of the ocean
environment on our predecessors in this wonderful, but alien and
potentially hostile environment?

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 1995 16:12:49 GMT
From: sd...@OES.ORST.EDU (Stephen M Dodd)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick Comoglio (5)
Message-ID: <3trji1$l...@gaia.ucs.orst.edu>
Organization: Oregon Extension Service

In article <3tlub6$n5n$5...@mhadf.production.compuserve.com>,
Carl A. Gaines, Jr. <75234...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>
>3. Does the technical diving community haveestablish some
>widely-accepted protocols for safety and documentation to make
>the risks reasonable relative to the rewards and to
>scientifically record data essential to our growth of knowledge
>about humans' survival in the alien ocean environment? Aren't
>fewer divers lost today due to such diving rules and technical
>practices? Aren't we safer because of dive association rules,
>dive tables and computers, all of which were developed as a
>result of proper recording of the effects of the ocean
>environment on our predecessors in this wonderful, but alien and
>potentially hostile environment?
>
>--
>

Your question, which seems retorical, can be flatly answered with a
simple NO. There is no body of evidence with sufficient breadth to
provide a scientific basis for such attempts. In more specific terms
this foolish attempt at a depth record was performed with many rather
than a single, or even a few variables out of control. The effort was
beyond the range for which we have reliable data and tested many issues
simultaneously rather than in isolation.

This was not science ...

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jul 95 00:20:22
From: c...@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Carl Heinzl)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick Comoglio (5)

Message-ID: <CGH.95Ju...@baden.ai.mit.edu>
Organization: M.I.T. Artificial Intelligence Lab.

>2. Is it proper to allow or attempt such a technical, potentially
>fatal dive during the surface interval of a two-tank recreational
>dive? Does this give a positive and serious image of the technical

In general (without knowing the specifics) I would say definitely not.
The one thing that I keep reading is that this is a "technical" dive.
Yes, and no. Yes, in that it requires special training and
consideration, but, NO, in that there are no certifying agencies that
train or condone diving on air to this depth. The deepest
certification that I'm aware of is to 300' and you work up to this (to
get used to the narcosis). As I understand it, the main reason behind
getting trained in air diving to this depth is for the diver intending
to dive mix. In an emergency situation, the mix diver may have to
switch to a travel gas (might be air depending on the dive) and have
to deal with narcosis as would be encountered on a 300' air dive.

>diving community to recreational divers? Does it show proper
>recognition and respect for the dangers associated with technical
>diving? Is it the proper environment to offer safety, support, and

IMO, no.

>documentation of such dangerous and information-rich undertakings?
>Does it leave an impression of the technical community as
>safety-conscious and interested in the advancement of knowledge about
>diving or as simply goal-driven and recklessly adventurous?

As I pointed out above, this dive should NOT be in any way linked with
the "technical" diving community in that it violates just about all of
their standards. Just to make an analogy would you consider a dive to
130' with a steel 72 no pressure gauge, no watch (no computer
obviously) reflective on the sport diving community as a whole?

>3. Does the technical diving community haveestablish some
>widely-accepted protocols for safety and documentation to make
>the risks reasonable relative to the rewards and to
>scientifically record data essential to our growth of knowledge
>about humans' survival in the alien ocean environment? Aren't

I'm not aware of any vast program to record data for future research
on technical diving. I do know that DAN is co sponsoring some
research on individual diver profiles using profiling dive computers (
the Nemesis II). I was going to take part in this as a field data
coordinator (I think that was the term that they used) until I demoed
the Nemesis II for a couple weeks and determined that it was not the
computer for me.

>fewer divers lost today due to such diving rules and technical
>practices? Aren't we safer because of dive association rules,
>dive tables and computers, all of which were developed as a
>result of proper recording of the effects of the ocean
>environment on our predecessors in this wonderful, but alien and
>potentially hostile environment?

Nope. I think that very little real world recording has been done
on divers, especially recreational divers. The best example is
the Navy tables which were developed by exposing divers to ever
increasing risks until they did get bent (then putting them into
chambers immediately). THe problem with the Navy tables was that
their acceptable risk level was much too high for recreational
divers so several other competing tables were formed.

That's the great thing about dive tables - there's just so many to
choose from - just like standards in the computer industry :^)

-Carl-

------------------------------

End of rec-scuba Digest
******************************

The article backlog is 455369 bytes, and 352 articles.

ADMIN...@ccmail.wcc.com

unread,

Jul 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM7/15/95

Message undeliverable at this time

id AA06176; Sat, 15 Jul 95 05:19:51 MDT
Received: from stanley.cis.Brown.EDU (stanley.cis.brown.edu [128.148.176.55]) by listserv.brown.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id GAA28321; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 06:19:38 -0400

Received: from BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU by BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b)

with NJE id 5924 for SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU; Sat, 15 Jul 1995
06:18:09 -0400

Received: from BROWNVM (NJE origin SMTP@BROWNVM) by BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (LMail

V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 1990; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 06:18:09 -0400

Received: from scifi.maid.com by BROWNVM.brown.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP;

Sat, 15 Jul 95 06:17:43 EDT
Received: (from njs@localhost) by scifi.maid.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id GAA20726;
Sat, 15 Jul 1995 06:18:46 -0400
Approved-By: Nick Simicich <n...@SCIFI.EMI.NET>
Message-Id: <1995071510...@scifi.maid.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 06:18:46 -0400

Reply-To: rec-...@cs.utexas.edu
Sender: Scuba Digest Redistribution <SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
From: Nick Simicich <n...@scifi.emi.net>

Subject: rec-scuba Digest V4 #613

To: Multiple recipients of list SCUBA-D <SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>

rec-scuba Digest Sat, 15 Jul 95 Volume 4 : Issue 613

Today's Topics:
(no subject) [2]
Dacor Regulator for sale (florida, will ship)
Dive Training Center Help [3]
Dive Watches/ Navy SEALS [2]
Help with NIKONOS-V UW Camera [5]
How many of us die in cars (was: How to prevent shark atack?) [3]
How Much Weight - Am I CRAZY ? [6]
How to prevent shark attack? [15]
New WWW Scuba Classified - free
WTB: Pressure gauge
WTB/R:Sea&Sea
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 1995 16:26:16 GMT
From: schw...@news.sccsi.com (Karl Schwartz)
Subject: Dive Training Center Help
Message-ID: <3tu8n9$i...@tattoo.sccsi.com>
Organization: South Coast Computer Services (sccsi.com)

I am interested in becomming a dive instructor and am looking for
a bit of feedback from those who have "been there done that".
I don't want to get into the 1 nite a week for 6 years kinda class
I'm looking for an instructor dive center that offers the 5-7-9- or
whatever number of days of intensive training....so

Any thoughts on who is best? what the cost is? what are the prospects
for work if I graduate from a particular school? I am not
stuck on one agancy or another (although my OWI is from SSI) but
I wonder if one instructor certification makes a person "more
employable" over another....and no, I'm not asking if one agency
is better than another, I realize it is the instructor, not the
agency thet is good or bad..

Any feedback?

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 1995 20:28:05 GMT
From: Dan Volker <d...@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Dive Training Center Help
Message-ID: <3tumsl$s...@news.gate.net>
Organization: South Florida Dive Journal <http://www.florida.net/scuba/dive>

schw...@news.sccsi.com (Karl Schwartz) wrote:
>I am interested in becomming a dive instructor and am looking for
>a bit of feedback from those who have "been there done that".
>I don't want to get into the 1 nite a week for 6 years kinda class
>I'm looking for an instructor dive center that offers the 5-7-9- or
>whatever number of days of intensive training....so
>
>Any thoughts on who is best? what the cost is? what are the prospects
>for work if I graduate from a particular school? I am not
>stuck on one agancy or another (although my OWI is from SSI) but
>I wonder if one instructor certification makes a person "more
>employable" over another....and no, I'm not asking if one agency
>is better than another, I realize it is the instructor, not the
>agency thet is good or bad..
>
>Any feedback?
>
Dive USA in Palm Beach is perfect for what you describe. Either e-mail
them at div...@gate.net or first see their web site at
http://www.florida.net/scuba/diveusa

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 19:59:33 GMT
From: mi...@msmith.demon.co.uk (Mike Smith)
Subject: Re: Dive Training Center Help
Message-ID: <19950712....@msmith.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Mike's Software

In message <3tu8n9$i...@tattoo.sccsi.com> Karl Schwartz wrote:

> I am interested in becomming a dive instructor and am looking for
> a bit of feedback from those who have "been there done that".
> I don't want to get into the 1 nite a week for 6 years kinda class
> I'm looking for an instructor dive center that offers the 5-7-9- or
> whatever number of days of intensive training....so
>
> Any thoughts on who is best? what the cost is? what are the prospects
> for work if I graduate from a particular school? I am not
> stuck on one agancy or another (although my OWI is from SSI) but
> I wonder if one instructor certification makes a person "more
> employable" over another....and no, I'm not asking if one agency
> is better than another, I realize it is the instructor, not the
> agency thet is good or bad..

Both NAUI and PADI have instructor training sessions in South California
it was either $1000 or $2000 (1983 US), I can't remember.

You can do it all in one go.

Make sure you can swim the distances required in a specified time.
That is the killer for many, as long as you are book-smart the
rest is a blow.

I think there is a no money back deal if you fail BTB, check and
see.

--
Mike Smith
(A Californian living in Plymouth, England)

** America needs real Fish and Chips **
** England needs Prime Rib **

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 1995 16:39:37 GMT
From: rr...@lang1.langara.bc.ca (Ron Ross)
Subject: Re: Help with NIKONOS-V UW Camera
Message-ID: <3tu9g9$o...@vcc7.vcc.bc.ca>
Organization: Langara College

Joel T. Alexander (joel.al...@bsis.com) wrote:
[SNIP]
: I have looked at the Nikonos-V and can find hardly any information on other
: brands that will go to my specified depths. Any info about the Nikonos-V
: would be appreciated.

Your other options are the Sea & Sea cameras, or housing a land
camera. Try checking out the underwater photography home page at
"http://dorothy.as.arizona.edu:8008/uw-photo/".

: Also, I don't have the money to invest in several lenses at this time.
: Would the 35MM F/2.5 work well for macro photography?

The 35mm lens is great for macro work using extension tubes/framers.
That's about all it's good for though. The Nikonos V's strengths are
macro work, and wide angle photography.

--
___ Oo .:/
(___)o_o ,,///;, ,;/
//====--//(_) o:::::::;;/// Ron Ross
\\ ^ >::::::::;;\\\ <rr...@langara.bc.ca>
''\\\\\'" ';\ I'd rather be diving !!!

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 08:01:08 GMT
From: Dee Granger <dgra...@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Help with NIKONOS-V UW Camera
Message-ID: <3tvvg4$2...@mars.earthlink.net>
Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc.

Joel T. Alexander (joel.al...@bsis.com) wrote:
: I have looked at the Nikonos-V and can find hardly any information on other
: brands that will go to my specified depths. Any info about the Nikonos-V
: would be appreciated.
: Also, I don't have the money to invest in several lenses at this time.
: Would the 35MM F/2.5 work well for macro photography?

In reply, rr...@lang1.langara.bc.ca (Ron Ross) wrote:
> The 35mm lens is great for macro work using extension tubes/framers.
>That's about all it's good for though. The Nikonos V's strengths are
>macro work, and wide angle photography.

Joel,

My advice is to get a Nikonos 28 mm lens and the extension tubes and framers set MCD makes for it.
(MCD is in San Diego, CA, 619/481-0604.) The 28 mm lens, which is U/W-only, is much
sharper and has more depth of field than the 35. As a wide-angle lens, it does nice people portraits
with even a small strobe like an Ikelite MV. You will never outgrow it, and it is well worth the extra
$ over a 35.

Also consider adding a Nikonos close-up kit. This is great for fish portraits and lots of warm water
subjects, and can be removed underwater for 28 mm wide angle shots when a barracuda swims by.
Someone in my U/W photo club is selling a good used set for $150.

Good luck!

Dee.

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 00:02:11 GMT
From: Steve Weintraub <ste...@netaxs.com>
Subject: Re: Help with NIKONOS-V UW Camera
Message-ID: <3tv3e3$k...@netaxs.com>
Organization: Net Access - Philadelphia's Internet Connection

Joel:

The Nikonos-V is a fine camera for your purposes and should operate
well to a depth of about 150 fsw. The lens most commonly sold with the
camera is the 35mm f2.5. This lens is also the only one that works out
of the water. It is also the best lens to use with the close-up
attachment (highly recommended). It is, however, not the best lens for
general underwater use. The 28mm UW-Nikkor provides a better field of
view and more importantly greater depth of focus. The 35mm is required
for the macro tubes.

The Nikonos-V will last indefinitely as long as you keep the "O" rings
in good shape and always check the seals for dirt and cuts. I never
flooded any Nikonos product in 10 years of using them. You should be
able to find a used rig on this newsgroup or in rec.photo.marketplace.
Good diving...

---> Steve Weintraub

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 21:45:11 GMT
From: na...@nudibranch.asd.sgi.com (Chuck Narad)
Subject: Re: Help with NIKONOS-V UW Camera
Message-ID: <3u1fp7$s...@fido.asd.sgi.com>
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Mountain View, CA

In article <3tv3e3$k...@netaxs.com>, Steve Weintraub <ste...@netaxs.com> writes:
> Joel:
>
> The Nikonos-V is a fine camera for your purposes and should operate
> well to a depth of about 150 fsw. The lens most commonly sold with the
> camera is the 35mm f2.5. This lens is also the only one that works out
> of the water. It is also the best lens to use with the close-up
> attachment (highly recommended). It is, however, not the best lens for
> general underwater use. The 28mm UW-Nikkor provides a better field of
> view and more importantly greater depth of focus. The 35mm is required
> for the macro tubes.

minor correction; you can get macro extension tubes and framers for
both the 35mm and the 28mm lenses. Nikon makes them, so does Helix.

chuck/

> The Nikonos-V will last indefinitely as long as you keep the "O" rings
> in good shape and always check the seals for dirt and cuts. I never
> flooded any Nikonos product in 10 years of using them. You should be
> able to find a used rig on this newsgroup or in rec.photo.marketplace.
> Good diving...
>
> ---> Steve Weintraub
>
>
>

-----------------------------------------------------------
| Chuck Narad -- diver/adventurer/engineer |
| |
| "The universe is full of magical things, patiently |
| waiting for our wits to grow sharper." |
| |
| -- Eden Phillpotts |
| |
-----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 21:20:56 GMT
From: Rick Williams <m...@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: Help with NIKONOS-V UW Camera
Message-ID: <3u1ebo$5...@info.evansville.net>
Organization: Multi-Media Design, Inc

joel.al...@bsis.com (Joel T. Alexander) wrote:
>I am thinking of buying a camera to be used while scuba diving. I frequently go to depths of 130fsw, but never beyond that. I am =
interested in a camera that is easy to use, and, of course, takes great pictures. I am particulary interested in whether these UW c=
ameras can be used above water (if the lenses are available).
>
>Any info about the Nikonos-V would be appreciated.
>
>Also, I don't have the money to invest in several lenses at this time. Would
>the 35MM F/2.5 work well for macro photography?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Joel

The Nik V 35mm is a good general purpose u/w and surface lens but would
not be my first choice as a macro lens. However, Nik makes a clamp on
macro lens set with very good optics. It is called the close up lens
for Nik and works with the 35mm making a good overall starting system.

A better lens, IMHO for u/w work is the 20mm. It is a better lens
than the 28 and a fairly good value for the dollar.

Another way to go would be with say a Nik 8008 in a housing with a
fairly long lens say a 105 and that works really well on Macros. You
can view a few pictures taken with this setup at:
http://www.evansville.net/~mmd/rscuba.html

The photo, which the scans and 256 colors do not do anywhere near
justice, were taken by Robert Shaklovits who is the Delphi Scuba Sig
Photo Host.

As far as depth is concerned, almost all the cameras go to 130, I think
the Nik V is around 160-180 and it will go deeper, it just stops being
able to wind...g There is also an increased danger of o-ring failure.

Hope this helps
Rick
Delphi Scuba Sig Manager

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 1995 16:46:02 GMT
From: st...@ibg.ljo.dec.com (Doug Stell)
Subject: Re: How Much Weight - Am I CRAZY ?
Message-ID: <3tu9sa$5...@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp

In article <3tjk1l$5...@gaia.ucs.orst.edu>, sd...@OES.ORST.EDU (Stephen M Dodd) says:
> I am not too surprised by your use of 32 pounds. Why not, on your next
> dive, hang out at 15 feet at the end with 500 pounds of air and see if
> you can hold that position with and empty BC with simple breath
> control. If you swing up and down a lot and have to mess with your BC
> power inflator a lot you may well be too heavy. If you can't stay down
> you are too light.

This is sound advice. Don't be fooled by macho divers who brag that less
weight on your belt is a display of skill, that "kicking down" is a skill
at all or that you base your weight on the descent.

The real test is that you can hold a safety stop at 15 feet with a nearly
empty tank (500psi) and an empty BC. The only skill, which isn't much,
is that you can truly empty your BC. Everything else is determined by
the physics of your body and equipment.

The procedure for proper weighting is to test the above at the end of
a dive and adjust your weight in small increments until you get it right.
It is saver, but not cool, to carry more lead than necessary, rather than
too little. Your weighting will vary only a few pounds over the year,
in relation to your physical condition.

doug, who needs 34# up north with a steel tank.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 23:52:42 GMT
From: an...@speedy.creativesales.com (Anker Berg-Sonne)
Subject: Re: How Much Weight - Am I CRAZY ?
Message-ID: <3u1n66$q...@caesar.ultra.net>
Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc.

The most common reason I see for using "too much" weight is poor
descent technique. For some reason most instructors don't drill it
into the students.

For those of you who don't know:

1) Dump all air in your BC. The common method holding the hose up over
your head works poorly on a lot of BCs. Most BCs I'm familiar with
either have a dump valve on the right shoulder (ScubaPro), or dump
when you pull the inflator hose. Those designs dump better with these
methods.

2) Exhale as much as you can. Most novice divers instinctively talke a
deep breath when trying to descend. Fight that instinct and exhale
deeply.

3) Don't start breathing in until you are a couple of feet under the
surface, and then take easy, light (shallow) breaths. Consciously
avoid gulping huge lungfuls.

4) If 1 through 3 don't work in a upright position try doing 2 through
3 doing a swan dive ( head down feet up in the air).

If I am right about the problem this should save 4 to 6 pounds!

Anker

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 15:10:24 GMT
From: care...@ix.netcom.com (richard kirk )
Subject: Re: How Much Weight - Am I CRAZY ?
Message-ID: <3u3d10$p...@ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom

In <3u1n66$q...@caesar.ultra.net> an...@speedy.ultranet.com (Anker
Berg-Sonne) writes:
>
>The most common reason I see for using "too much" weight is poor
>descent technique. For some reason most instructors don't drill it
>into the students.
>
>For those of you who don't know:
>
>1) Dump all air in your BC. The common method holding the hose up over
>your head works poorly on a lot of BCs. Most BCs I'm familiar with
>either have a dump valve on the right shoulder (ScubaPro), or dump
>when you pull the inflator hose. Those designs dump better with these
>methods.
>
>2) Exhale as much as you can. Most novice divers instinctively talke a
>deep breath when trying to descend. Fight that instinct and exhale
>deeply.
>
>3) Don't start breathing in until you are a couple of feet under the
>surface, and then take easy, light (shallow) breaths. Consciously
>avoid gulping huge lungfuls.
>
>4) If 1 through 3 don't work in a upright position try doing 2 through
>3 doing a swan dive ( head down feet up in the air).
>
>If I am right about the problem this should save 4 to 6 pounds!
>
>Anker
>
I AM 260 AND DIVE WITH 24 LBS ON WAIST AN 80 CUFT ALUM TANK AND HAVE
NO REAL PROBLEMGOING UNDER AND MAINTANING AT 15 FEET WITH A EMPTY BC IN
FRESH WATER I ADD A SET OF 4 LB ANKLE WEIGTHS 2 ON EACH ANKLE FOR SALT
WATER

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 13:48:46 -0500
From: hunt...@PICA.ARMY.MIL ("Hugh A. Huntzinger" (CCAC))
Subject: Re: How Much Weight - Am I CRAZY?
Message-ID: <950713144...@CCAC1.PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway

> Don't dive too heavy you may find this incredible urge to dump it, and
> they are too expensive to have to ditch.

On the contrary...its a lot cheaper than a casket!

The REAL test is your status at 15fsw at the end of an actual dive.
For average builds with a genuine 1/4" FarmerJohn wetsuit, I don't think
30# of lead is all that far off the mark.

-hh

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 23:00:33 EDT
From: 2132...@msu.edu (Kim Dyer)
Subject: Re: How Much Weight - Am I CRAZY?
Message-ID: <173DB14396S...@msu.edu>
Organization: Michigan State University

>> Don't dive too heavy you may find this incredible urge to dump it, and
>> they are too expensive to have to ditch.
>On the contrary...its a lot cheaper than a casket!

MY problem is always if I weight "properly" for the start of a dive, by
the time my tank is half empty I'm grabbing at anything I can get hold
of to keep from shooting to the surface. As a percentage compared to my
body weight (about 120#) the difference between a full and empty tank
can give me all sorts of trouble. So I argue with the divemaster ALOT to
let me start out a couple of pounds heavy, and we can adjust down on a
second dive if we need to.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 12:27:26 GMT
From: tetr...@mv.mv.com (Mark Tetrault)
Subject: Re: How Much Weight - Am I CRAZY ?
Message-ID: <k4H1m8Vz...@mv.mv.com>
Organization: MV Communications, Inc.

In article <3u1n66$q...@caesar.ultra.net>,
an...@speedy.ultranet.com (Anker Berg-Sonne) wrote:
> The most common reason I see for using "too much" weight is poor
> descent technique. For some reason most instructors don't drill it
> into the students.
>
> For those of you who don't know:
>
> 1) Dump all air in your BC. The common method holding the hose up over
>
> 2) Exhale as much as you can. Most novice divers instinctively talke a
> deep breath when trying to descend. Fight that instinct and exhale
>
> 3) Don't start breathing in until you are a couple of feet under the
>
> 4) If 1 through 3 don't work in a upright position try doing 2 through
> 3 doing a swan dive ( head down feet up in the air).
>
> If I am right about the problem this should save 4 to 6 pounds!

While I agree with you, I am one of those "overweighted" newbies that
has a problem getting down. The Swan dive however works well for me
and of course at 8 feet or so the problem is gone.

The problem with that bandage is that at the end of the dive with 500psi
left, if you are not weighted correctly, up you go!

Part of my problem, as with many new divers here in NE and north, is
a brand new shiny wetsuit (1/4" farmer john). This is far more
bouyant than an older suit. It does take extra weight until the suit
gets some miles on it.

I think the correct way to weight ones self, IMHO, is to experiment with
your weight system with a tank at 500psi or so, and settle on a correct
weight at that point. Then recheck yourself as time passes and the suit
gets older (less weight will be needed). The Swan dive works well, but it
is a bandage to the real problem and can cause an incorrectly weighted
diver to blow right past his/her safety stop.

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 1995 16:53:46 GMT
From: we...@rogue.geo.duke.edu (Craig Webb)
Subject: WTB: Pressure gauge
Message-ID: <3tuaaq$2...@news.duke.edu>
Organization: Duke University Department of Geology

Hello there-

Pretty self-explanatory. I recently got a Sherwood pony system and
need a single housed pressure gauge for it. Just email me at the
address below. BTW, I'm located in Durham, NC.
Thanks.

~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~
* Craig Webb we...@rogue.geo.duke.edu *
* *
* *
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 13:47:31
From: ejoh...@uiowa.edu
Subject: WTB/R:Sea&Sea
Message-ID: <ejohnson.7...@uiowa.edu>
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

Wanted to buy or rent:
Nikonos V, strobe, etc., or Sea&Sea Motomarine 2 with strobe.
If you don't have something to sell, do you perhaps know of someone
who rents?

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 1995 18:18:13 GMT
From: Frank Rogers <rog...@oklahoma-city.geoquest.slb.com>
Subject: Re: Dive Watches/ Navy SEALS
Message-ID: <3tuf95$l...@sndsu1.sedalia.sinet.slb.com>
Organization: Schlumberger SINet, Sedalia, CO

bde...@emi.net (Bob Denton) wrote:
>
> I have dive with a watch which was supposedly issued to the SEAL
> teams, UW recovery and other military services. It is market Marathon
> and made by Gallett and Co.
>
> The watch has a titanium case, black face and bi-rotating bezel and
> the numbers are illuminated by tritium vials. The watch is bright
> enough to read by.
>
Gosh Bob,

If you were going to make a secret beach landing under the cover of
darkness, do you think that you would want a watch dial so bright
that you could read by it?

An old S.E.A.L. that I know told me that a lot of the guys wear
Casio G-Shocks!!!

Frank Rogers
(email - rog...@oklahoma-city.geoquest.slb.com)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 18:22:56 GMT
From: rfu...@powergrid.electriciti.com (Ron Fuller)
Subject: Re: Dive Watches/ Navy SEALS
Message-ID: <3tufhp$5...@arc.electriciti.com>
Organization: ElectriCiti

Dale_...@oui.com (Dale Brown) wrote:

>Anyone know what type of dive watches the Navy SEALS use?

>TIA,
Dale:
Maybe something that BLOWS UP if the wrong person looks at it.<g>

Best Regards

Ron in San Diego

http://www.electriciti.com/~rfuller
rfu...@powergrid.electriciti.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 18:20:49 GMT
From: rfu...@powergrid.electriciti.com (Ron Fuller)
Subject: Re: New WWW Scuba Classified - free
Message-ID: <3tufdq$5...@arc.electriciti.com>
Organization: ElectriCiti

bde...@emi.net (Bob Denton) wrote:

>http://www.emi.net/boynton/scubsale.html

>There is a new classified web site which is free to non commercial
>users and instructors.

>Submit your ad and a small gif if appropriate with the subject= scuba
>classified to:

Bob:
That is a great idea!! I'm going to be adding it to my list of web
sites.

Best Regards

Ron in San Diego

http://www.electriciti.com/~rfuller
rfu...@powergrid.electriciti.com

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 1995 18:23:24 GMT
From: <ttil...@pacificrim.net>
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <3tufit$m...@news.pacificrim.net>
Organization: Pacific Rim Network, Inc.

Does anyone have the address for Ocean Explorers Dive Center in St.
Maarten?

Let me know

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 15:02:31 GMT
From: Kelton Joyner <Joyner...@ftw.mot.com>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Message-ID: <3u0o68$2...@fwsns06.fwrdc.rtsg.mot.com>
Organization: Motorola

Ocean Explorers
Simpson Bay Lagoon
St. Martin
Telephone 011 599 5 45252

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 14:59:23
From: ke...@ufl.edu (Ken Sallot)
Subject: Dacor Regulator for sale (florida, will ship)
Message-ID: <kens.830...@ufl.edu>

Dacor Extreme Regulator for sale.
Includes Dacor Octopus and Console with pressure gauge, depth gauge (analog)
and compass.

Regulator alone goes for $300+ new. I'm selling the whole thing for the low
price of $300 (or best offer).

Send me some email if interested (ke...@ufl.edu).

=====================================================================
Ken Sallot YMCA Assistant-Instructor
ke...@ufl.edu NSS-CDS / NACD Full Cave
http://grove.ufl.edu/~ken

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 19:22:07 GMT
From: mi...@msmith.demon.co.uk (Mike Smith)
Subject: Re: How to prevent shark attack?
Message-ID: <19950711....@msmith.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Mike's Software

In message <3tt8gn$b...@dump.primenet.com> KG wrote:

>
> There are many things that I would be more concerned about than sharks.
> You have a much greater chance of shark attack if you are a surfer than
> if you are a diver.

I have personally never known anyone attacked by a shark but I do know
a chap with 450 stitches from a sea-lion.

--
Mike Smith
(A Californian living in Plymouth, England)

** America needs real Fish and Chips **
** England needs Prime Rib **

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 04:44:30 GMT
From: clay...@netcom.com (Clay Glenn)
Subject: Re: How to prevent shark attack?
Message-ID: <clayglenD...@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)

KG (kde...@PrimeNet.com) wrote:
....
: You are in greater danger driving your car to your dive than you are
: after you get there.

About how many people do you figure die in their cars each year while
driving to their dives?

--
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ O
>>> Clay Glenn clay...@netcom.com >>> /|\
/////////////////////////////////////////// /'\

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 19:32:15 GMT
From: Wes Barbowski <barbowsk...@nricoa.mnr.gov.on.ca>
Subject: Re: How to prevent shark attack?
Message-ID: <1995Jul12....@govonca.gov.on.ca>
Organization: mnr

clay...@netcom.com (Clay Glenn) wrote:
>KG (kde...@PrimeNet.com) wrote:
>...
>: You are in greater danger driving your car to your dive than you are
>: after you get there.
>
>About how many people do you figure die in their cars each year while
>driving to their dives?

You are more likely to be struck by lightning than to be attacked
by a shark. Just my 2 cents...

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 16:45:44 GMT
From: j...@iis06.IAS.berkeley.edu (Jason O'Rourke)
Subject: Re: How to prevent shark attack?
Message-ID: <3u3ijo$5...@agate.berkeley.edu>
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

Wes Barbowski <barbowsk...@nricoa.mnr.gov.on.ca> wrote:
>>: You are in greater danger driving your car to your dive than you are
>>: after you get there.

> You are more likely to be struck by lightning than to be attacked
>by a shark. Just my 2 cents...

The second statement is less valid than the first. In California,
lightning is rather rare outside of the Sierras. Perhaps once a year
we'll have a good thunderstorm. Chicago, on the other hand, seems to
have thunder on a daily basis in the summer.

Monterrey just had a shark pay a visit. Lake Michigan has a policy
against large predators (Is Lake Nicaragua the location for the only
fresh water sharks?). So Chicago has an incredibly high lightning to
shark ratio, where at Monterrey it is relatively smaller.

Statistics are evil

Jason

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 02:03:52 -0400
From: tryin...@aol.com (Trying2Fly)
Subject: Re: How to prevent shark attack?
Message-ID: <3u2d08$q...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

In article <clayglenD...@netcom.com>, clay...@netcom.com (Clay
Glenn) writes:

>
>About how many people do you figure die in their cars each year while
>driving to their dives?
>

about 800 (really)

In the US at least 40,000 people die in cars each year out of about
2,500,000. That is 1.6 percent of the population. Guessing that there
are 50,000 divers, x 1.6 % = 800.
Assumeing divers don't drive anywhere else. Kinda makes you want to buy a
house on the beach huh.

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 15:02:43 GMT

From: sd...@OES.ORST.EDU (Stephen M Dodd)

Subject: Re: How to prevent shark attack?
Message-ID: <3u3cij$1...@news.orst.edu>
Organization: Oregon Extension Service

In article <3u2d08$q...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
Trying2Fly <tryin...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>In article <clayglenD...@netcom.com>, clay...@netcom.com (Clay
>Glenn) writes:
>
>>
>>About how many people do you figure die in their cars each year while
>>driving to their dives?
>>
>>
>
>about 800 (really)
>
>In the US at least 40,000 people die in cars each year out of about
>2,500,000. That is 1.6 percent of the population. Guessing that there
>are 50,000 divers, x 1.6 % = 800.
>Assumeing divers don't drive anywhere else. Kinda makes you want to buy a
>house on the beach huh.
>

I am always amused by the statistic that about 500 people a year in
Africa are killed by elephants.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 01:27:27 GMT
From: an...@speedy.creativesales.com (Anker Berg-Sonne)
Subject: Re: How to prevent shark attack?
Message-ID: <3u4h27$g...@caesar.ultra.net>
Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc.

sd...@OES.ORST.EDU (Stephen M Dodd) wrote:

<snip>

> I am always amused by the statistic that about 500 people a year in
> Africa are killed by elephants.

<snip>

That's until you have been chased by one! I have, twice! Not as
amusing as you think, those b... are fast!

Anker

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1995 09:11:59 -0400
From: scub...@aol.com (Scuba Lee)
Subject: Re: How to prevent shark attack?
Message-ID: <3u5qev$k...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

Actually there are about 250 million folks in US so the number should have
been 8 , not 800. Makes a big difference!

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 19:39:27 GMT
From: ro...@spiff.physics.mcgill.ca (Roger Lacasse)
Subject: How many of us die in cars (was: How to prevent shark atack?)
Message-ID: <3u3spf$k...@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>
Organization: Foster Radiation Lab., McGill Univ., Canada.

In article <3u2d08$q...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> tryin...@aol.com (Trying2Fly) writes:

>>About how many people do you figure die in their cars each year while
>>driving to their dives?
>>
>about 800 (really)
>
>In the US at least 40,000 people die in cars each year out of about
>2,500,000. That is 1.6 percent of the population. Guessing that there

Hey! you're wrong by at least 1 order of magnitude budy! First
the Canadian population is 2.5M, the actual US population is
more like 25M!!!! Which means that it's down to 0.16%.

>are 50,000 divers, x 1.6 % = 800.

I guess this brings it down to 80 US citizen, which is still pretty large.

But, since you're not diving as often as you go to work,
you're missing some numbers! You have to multiply this by the
average number of dives a year per diver (~10 to be generous and x2
to go and come back from the dive site) and divide it by average number
of times someone takes his car in a year (~520 to be conservative).

80 x 20/520 = 3

Sounds a lot more reasonnable but still a bit on the large side to me,
no? It was an interesting little calculation.

I learned at least one thing in physics: when you calculated something,
pause 2 minutes and think wether it makes sense or not!

>Assumeing divers don't drive anywhere else. Kinda makes you want to buy a
>house on the beach huh.

I don't need this calculation to make me want to buy a house by the beach.
I just need more money!

Cheers

--
Roger Lacasse (514) 398-7025, McGill University [\]
FRL, 3559 University, Montreal, Qc, CDN, H3A 2B1 |
"I found the meaning of life, it's in the eyes ^^^^^^^^^^^^(_)^^^^^^^^
of my wife and daugther" http://spiff.physics.mcgill.ca/scuba.html

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1995 01:41:04 -0400
From: tryin...@aol.com (Trying2Fly)
Subject: Re: How many of us die in cars (was: How to prevent shark atack?)
Message-ID: <3u501g$h...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

In article <3u3spf$k...@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>, ro...@spiff.physics.mcgill.ca
(Roger Lacasse) writes:

>
>Hey! you're wrong by at least 1 order of magnitude budy! First
>the Canadian population is 2.5M, the actual US population is
>more like 25M!!!! Which means that it's down to 0.16%.
>

Boy I musta been narced. We have closer to 250 million souls. The 80 lost
in cars is better then 800, unless you are one of those 80.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 23:49:27 GMT
From: mi...@msmith.demon.co.uk (Mike Smith)
Subject: Re: How many of us die in cars (was: How to prevent shark atack?)
Message-ID: <19950714....@msmith.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Mike's Software

In message <3u501g$h...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Trying2Fly wrote:

> In article <3u3spf$k...@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>, ro...@spiff.physics.mcgill.ca
> (Roger Lacasse) writes:
>
> >
> >Hey! you're wrong by at least 1 order of magnitude budy! First
> >the Canadian population is 2.5M, the actual US population is
> >more like 25M!!!! Which means that it's down to 0.16%.
> >
> >
>
> Boy I musta been narced. We have closer to 250 million souls. The 80 lost
> in cars is better then 800, unless you are one of those 80.

Canada has a population of 30M, england 52M

--
Mike Smith
(A Californian living in Plymouth, England)

** America needs real Fish and Chips **
** England needs Prime Rib **

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1995 00:58:06 GMT
From: na...@nudibranch.asd.sgi.com (Chuck Narad)
Subject: Re: How to prevent shark attack?
Message-ID: <3u4feu$s...@fido.asd.sgi.com>
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Mountain View, CA

In article <3u2d08$q...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, tryin...@aol.com writes:
>
> In article <clayglenD...@netcom.com>, clay...@netcom.com (Clay
> Glenn) writes:
>
> >
> >About how many people do you figure die in their cars each year while
> >driving to their dives?
> >
> >
>
> about 800 (really)
>
> In the US at least 40,000 people die in cars each year out of about
> 2,500,000. That is 1.6 percent of the population. Guessing that there
> are 50,000 divers, x 1.6 % = 800.
> Assumeing divers don't drive anywhere else. Kinda makes you want to buy a
> house on the beach huh.
>

nah, most car accidents happen within 10 miles of home. the
last thing you want to do is live there! :-) :-)

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1995 15:25:55 GMT

From: sd...@OES.ORST.EDU (Stephen M Dodd)

Subject: Re: How to prevent shark attack?
Message-ID: <3u62a3$9...@news.orst.edu>
Organization: Oregon Extension Service

In article <3u4h27$g...@caesar.ultra.net>,
Anker Berg-Sonne <an...@speedy.ultranet.com> wrote:
>sd...@OES.ORST.EDU (Stephen M Dodd) wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> I am always amused by the statistic that about 500 people a year in
>> Africa are killed by elephants.
>
><snip>
>
>That's until you have been chased by one! I have, twice! Not as
>amusing as you think, those b... are fast!
>
>Anker
>

I imagine lots of us saw the CNN report on the elephant that went
rampaging at an Hawaiian circus about a year ago. Incredible how
easily it tore up the area and wiped out a few people. And this with a
lot more intention than any shark.

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 95 19:40:34 GMT
From: bry...@darwin.mbb.sfu.ca (Bryan Crawford)
Subject: Re: How to prevent shark attack?
Message-ID: <bryanc.805664434@darwin>
Organization: Simon Fraser University

tryin...@aol.com (Trying2Fly) writes:

>In article <clayglenD...@netcom.com>, clay...@netcom.com (Clay
>Glenn) writes:
>>
>>About how many people do you figure die in their cars each year while
>>driving to their dives?

>about 800 (really)

>In the US at least 40,000 people die in cars each year out of about
>2,500,000. That is 1.6 percent of the population. Guessing that there
>are 50,000 divers, x 1.6 % = 800.
>Assumeing divers don't drive anywhere else. Kinda makes you want to buy a
>house on the beach huh.

Good enough reasoning for a first order approximation, but there are about
25 million people in the US (not 2.5 million), so your final answer should
be 80. Still, a lot more than the number killed by sharks, or even out-of
air emergencies.

Cheers

--
Bryan Crawford bry...@sfu.ca
Institute of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry
Simon Fraser University
Burnaby, BC, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 04:13:38 GMT
From: kerry...@mindlink.bc.ca (Kerry Werry)
Subject: Re: How to prevent shark attack?
Message-ID: <3u4r47$i...@fountain.mindlink.net>
Organization: Mindlink

bry...@darwin.mbb.sfu.ca (Bryan Crawford) wrote:

>tryin...@aol.com (Trying2Fly) writes:

>>In article <clayglenD...@netcom.com>, clay...@netcom.com (Clay
>>Glenn) writes:
>>>
>>>About how many people do you figure die in their cars each year while
>>>driving to their dives?

>>about 800 (really)

>>In the US at least 40,000 people die in cars each year out of about
>>2,500,000. That is 1.6 percent of the population. Guessing that there
>>are 50,000 divers, x 1.6 % = 800.
>>Assumeing divers don't drive anywhere else. Kinda makes you want to buy a
>>house on the beach huh.

>Good enough reasoning for a first order approximation, but there are about
>25 million people in the US (not 2.5 million), so your final answer should
>be 80. Still, a lot more than the number killed by sharks, or even out-of
>air emergencies.

Always out to catch a friend in error, actually there are about 250 million
people in the US so the answer is 8

But the there are three kinds of lies

Lies
damn lies
Stats

BTW my favourite shark repelent is dirt lots of it, enough to stand on :-)

Kerry

Kerry L. Werry
Kerry...@mindlink.bc.ca <or> kwe...@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca
....The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth...
BC SCUBA WWW Site at http://mindlink.net/Kerry_Werry/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 23:08:44 GMT
From: Jeff Schwartz <jeff.s...@sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: How to prevent shark attack?
Message-ID: <DBKqy...@lcpd2.SanDiegoCA.ATTGIS.COM>
Organization: AT&T GIS San Diego Porting Center

[]
>Do not stimulate the sensory organs of sharks
Pretty hard not to.
>
>In dangerous waters, spend as little tiem as possible at the surface.
The surface is no place for a diver.
>
>Dive in twos or threes, never alone, and arrange yourselves back to
>back if you are threatend by a shark
Actually groups of 10 or more are better, that way you have only 10%
chance of being eaten. :-) Seriously though, sharks are tricky and
you may not even know they're around.
>
>Do not wear shiny objects
Does a mask count? How 'bout those stainless steel regs?
>
>Avoid yellow or orange
Are sharks fashion conscious? :-) I've actually heard you should
wear bright colors since sharks normally prey on dark colored
creatures such as seals.
>
>No noise
Ssssshhhhh. Be vehwy kwiett. :-)
>
>Do not provoke sharks
>
>He also come with the following recommendations:
>
>* Do not go too far beyond the surf
>* Do not swim close to underwater channels
>* Do not swim in murky waters
Or clear ones. Sharks don't care much about the viz.

>* Do not swim or dive at night or at dusk
>* Do not he rough with apparently inoffensive sharks, even small ones
>* If you feel something brush against or touch you, leave the water
Too late!
>* When on a dive, never let a shark get between you and any obstacle
I'm not sure what you mean but it doesn't matter, shark will go wherever he
wants
and there ain't much you can do about it.

>* Do not think that you are safe because dolphins are in the vicinity
>* If you have handled fish, wash before diving.
>
[ ]
Please note, most of my responses were intended as humor. There is really
only
one way to be sure to avoid shark attacks...

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey A. Schwartz jeff.s...@SanDiegoCA.ATTGIS.COM
AT&T Global Information Solutions Global Partner Labs
17095 Via del Campo ms 9853 San Diego, CA 92127
(619) 485-2052 VoicePlus 440-2052
===============================================================
Thunder and hell! What's wrong with ye?
REDWINGS :-(

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 11:31:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shane <spa...@cellmate.cb.uga.edu>
Subject: Re: How to prevent shark attack?
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.950712...@cellmate.cb.uga.edu>
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

> >Avoid yellow or orange
> Are sharks fashion conscious? :-) I've actually heard you should
> wear bright colors since sharks normally prey on dark colored
> creatures such as seals.

Only great whites regularly partake in seals...I've heard more about the
possible efects of CONTRAST (dark on light or vice-versa) than absolute
COLOR, though I was not particularly sad to retire my "yum-yum
orange" Sea Quest horsecollar in favor of a black jacket BC
(though this has more to do with that fiendish crotch strap than
anything else)...anyway, the shark's going to know you're there long before it
sees you, probably.

> >No noise
> Ssssshhhhh. Be vehwy kwiett. :-)

Yeah - even free divers create vibrations with their kicks...SCUBA divers
are downright deafening underwater

> >* Do not go too far beyond the surf

Don't know the stats, but there are probably more shark attacks in surf
than any other place..besides, diving in surf isn't my idea of fun

> >* Do not swim or dive at night or at dusk

Twilight periods are admittedly "predator city", and night sees many
sharks more active (e.g. tigers), but these are also two of the coolest
kind of dives you can do...as a marine biologist, my study subject (a
predator) has caused me to do quite a few twilight dives and it's really
a very exciting experience at times...never know what you're going to see

> >* Do not he rough with apparently inoffensive sharks, even small ones

Yeah, leave 'em alone!

> >* When on a dive, never let a shark get between you and any obstacle
> I'm not sure what you mean but it doesn't matter, shark will go wherever he
> wants
> and there ain't much you can do about it.

Think he/she means that you shouldn't allow a shark to be cornered by
you...always allow it a way out - I once had a 6 foot male blacktip slowly
approach me, coming about the same distance (6') away from my buddy and
I (snorkelling...us, not the shark) and it just hung there in about 8' of
water,looking at us. Wierd. Then it moved close around us until it was
"trapped" between us and some elkhorn - sat there looking at us and
finally left. Yep, sharks do seem to go pretty much wherever they want
to. It's generally a bad idea to corner any animal (person, too) if
you can help it. Most sharks, however, won't want to have much to do with you,
especially if you're on SCUBA.

> Please note, most of my responses were intended as humor. There is really
> only
> one way to be sure to avoid shark attacks...

....take up cross-country skiing instead.

Most of the original poster's points are standard precautions recommended
to prevent shark attacks. The truth is, however, that a diver is very
unlikely to ever be attacked by a shark (especially fatally) and that
there's not a whole lot one could do if the shark does attack, especially
if the shark is not seen beforehand. Looking at lists of "how to avoid
shark attacks" it always occurs to me that almost every one of the
suggestions is violated by recreational divers and that commercial and
scientific divers violate the rest.

Shane

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 00:40:11 -0400
From: tryin...@aol.com (Trying2Fly)
Subject: Re: How to prevent shark attack?
Message-ID: <3tvjnb$3...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

I
>ez00...@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (George Theodoris) wrote:
>
>>In light of the recent great white shark attack I was wondering if their

>>was any consensus about what do if you are diving and you see a great
>>white.
>

Remember why you carry a knife? And dive with a buddy? You stab your
buddy and then quietly swim away.

------------------------------

End of rec-scuba Digest
******************************

The article backlog is 527303 bytes, and 329 articles.

ADMIN...@ccmail.wcc.com

unread,

Jul 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM7/15/95

Message undeliverable at this time

id AA07752; Sat, 15 Jul 95 17:14:37 MDT
Received: from stanley.cis.Brown.EDU (stanley.cis.brown.edu [128.148.176.55]) by listserv.brown.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id SAA07783; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 18:21:38 -0400

Received: from BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU by BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b)

with NJE id 4915 for SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU; Sat, 15 Jul 1995
18:17:07 -0400

Received: from BROWNVM (NJE origin SMTP@BROWNVM) by BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (LMail

V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7405; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 18:17:06 -0400

Received: from scifi.maid.com by BROWNVM.brown.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP;

Sat, 15 Jul 95 18:16:41 EDT
Received: (from njs@localhost) by scifi.maid.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA17905;
Sat, 15 Jul 1995 18:17:41 -0400
Approved-By: Nick Simicich <n...@SCIFI.EMI.NET>
Message-Id: <1995071522...@scifi.maid.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 18:17:41 -0400

Reply-To: rec-...@cs.utexas.edu
Sender: Scuba Digest Redistribution <SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
From: Nick Simicich <n...@scifi.emi.net>

Subject: rec-scuba Digest V4 #615

To: Multiple recipients of list SCUBA-D <SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>

rec-scuba Digest Sat, 15 Jul 95 Volume 4 : Issue 615

Today's Topics:
Aquashot 2
Cochran Nemesis complaint [4]
Cousteau is a wimp! [12]
Cousteau is a wimp! - Cousteau Soc. - Where based?
Death of Nick, no record, not even close! [14]
HELP: Diving at Vulcano Island, Italy
Hydrogen [was: Re: Death of Nick, no record, not even close!]
San Diego Shark Attack
Spare air for flat tires...
TURKEY : DIVING PARADISE !!!!! [5]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 10:32:19 -0400
From: davec...@aol.com (DAVECD4637)
Subject: Re: Aquashot 2
Message-ID: <3u0mdj$9...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

The first post is not corrct---you can shoot macro with no, rpt no,
attached external strobe---the strobe built into the internal camera is
more than sufficient. If you want to do non-macro, then you need the
external strobe.
David A. McKnight

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 12:38:00 -0500
From: JOE.M...@x400gw.ameritech.com
Subject: Death of Nick, no record, not even close!
Message-ID: <B137ZVVRI2UIK*@MHS>
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway

I just read the several letters on "Death of Nick ...". First let me say
I agree with most, I think it's a death wish and I no way endorse diving
even below 110'. I prefer the 50-60' range, more stuff happening there
and more bottom time available anyway.

But someone please tell me I'm not crazy. Anyone have a subscription and
keep their old issues of Sports Illustrated? I'm absolutely positive I
read (within the past year or two at most) about a guy and his partner who
were going for a deep dive record of 1000'. This wasn't a short newsclip,
it was a full article. On the particular dive the reporter covered, one
guy went to 950', the other guy died, they didn't find him for three days,
and when they did, his depth gauge said 995'. He was tangled in the drop
line. On board was his ex-wife who held the female depth record at around
500'. They had tanks on a line at intervals all the way down. He got
tangled and couldn't get out. Supposedly, this was to be his final deep
dive. Obviously, it was.

Anybody recall this? Please tell me (and me friends) I'm not crazy.

Joe

joe.m...@x400gw.ameritech.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 18:49:30 GMT
From: jbre...@netcom.com (John Breeden)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick, no record, not even close!
Message-ID: <jbreedenD...@netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom - Somewhere in the S.F. Bay Area

In article <B137ZVVRI2UIK*@MHS> JOE.M...@x400gw.ameritech.com writes:
>But someone please tell me I'm not crazy. Anyone have a subscription and
>keep their old issues of Sports Illustrated? I'm absolutely positive I
>read (within the past year or two at most) about a guy and his partner who
>were going for a deep dive record of 1000'. This wasn't a short newsclip,
<snip>
>joe.m...@x400gw.ameritech.com

O.K. - you are crazy :-)

The record that Nick was going for was on *AIR* (take a deep breath, that
stuff going in your lungs is the same stuff :-). O2 toxicity is the
greatest danger. No warning, you just pass out.

What SI was talking about is the trimix record (oxy/hel/nit mix) with a dive
that starts and concludes on the surface.

The "record" is even deeper in commercial diving where the divers are kept
in saturation. Just a normal day at the office for them.
--
John Robert Breeden, jbre...@cisco.com jbre...@netcom.com

------------------- cut here and you'll break your monitor -------------------

"The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose
from. If you don't like any of them, you just wait for next year's
model."

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 23:50:15 GMT
From: galp...@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com (Steve Galperin)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick, no record, not even close!
Message-ID: <3u4bfn$m...@news.sanders.lockheed.com>
Organization: Lockheed Sanders

John Breeden (jbre...@netcom.com) wrote:
: In article <B137ZVVRI2UIK*@MHS> JOE.M...@x400gw.ameritech.com writes:
: >But someone please tell me I'm not crazy. Anyone have a subscription and
: >keep their old issues of Sports Illustrated? I'm absolutely positive I
: >read (within the past year or two at most) about a guy and his partner who
: >were going for a deep dive record of 1000'. This wasn't a short newsclip,
: <snip>
: >joe.m...@x400gw.ameritech.com

: O.K. - you are crazy :-)

: The record that Nick was going for was on *AIR* (take a deep breath, that
: stuff going in your lungs is the same stuff :-). O2 toxicity is the
: greatest danger. No warning, you just pass out.

: What SI was talking about is the trimix record (oxy/hel/nit mix) with a dive
: that starts and concludes on the surface.

: The "record" is even deeper in commercial diving where the divers are kept
: in saturation. Just a normal day at the office for them.
: --

I was told by a former North Sea commercial diver that they are operating in depths as
great as 1400 feet (whee) on mixes containg less than one percent oxygen. There was
even an series of experiments using hydogen in the gas mixes. Apparently the gas
is so dense (700 psi) that it becomes difficult to breath and the divers develop
resperitory infections from extended mouth breathing.

I think I'll stay in my kiddy pool and do shallow stuff like the Andrea Doria.

Stephen Galperin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 23:34:59 GMT
From: mi...@msmith.demon.co.uk (Mike Smith)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick, no record, not even close!

Message-ID: <19950714....@msmith.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Mike's Software

In message <3u4bfn$m...@news.sanders.lockheed.com> Steve Galperin wrote:

> I was told by a former North Sea commercial diver that they are operating in depths as
> great as 1400 feet (whee) on mixes containg less than one percent oxygen. There was

I would be surprised at this there are special suits, robots, man doesn't need to subject
his body to those extremes any more.

I have not heard of anyone working at more than 400 feet. The pressure at 80 feet starts
to get very noticeable... your hands and face become compressed, your wetsuit becomes
breezey, some older masks with non safety glass will shatter at 200, you drop fast.

--
Mike Smith
(A Californian living in Plymouth, England)

** America needs real Fish and Chips **
** England needs Prime Rib **

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 14:12:05 GMT
From: an...@speedy.creativesales.com (Anker Berg-Sonne)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick, no record, not even close!
Message-ID: <3u8i8r$r...@caesar.ultra.net>
Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc.

mi...@msmith.demon.co.uk (Mike Smith) wrote:

<snip>

>I have not heard of anyone working at more than 400 feet. The pressure at 80 feet starts
>to get very noticeable... your hands and face become compressed, your wetsuit becomes
>breezey, some older masks with non safety glass will shatter at 200, you drop fast.

>--
>Mike Smith
>(A Californian living in Plymouth, England)

> ** America needs real Fish and Chips **
> ** England needs Prime Rib **

Mike,

As they say in the UK: nonsense! Your hands and face don't become any
more compressed than at shallower depths, noone uses wetsuits at any
great depths, all dry, or special deep diving suits. And your mask
better get equalized, which is necessary even at shallower depths. Try
not equalizing your mask and diving to 60 feet! First it will start
squeezing, then it will start leaking like crazy. There's no way you
can get a mask lens to shatter!

Anker

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1995 17:19:57 GMT
From: JoeL Markwell <73700...@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: Death of Nick, no record, not even close!
Message-ID: <3u68vt$1u6$1...@mhade.production.compuserve.com>

Organization: via CompuServe Information Service

Joe,

You're referring to the cave-diving depth record of Sheck Exley and
Jim Bowden. However, this record was using an optimum gas mix for
this depth, I forget, but I am assuming it was either Heliox or
TriMix. The purpose is to get the O2 toxicity factor lowered to an
acceptable level by lowering O2 and to dampen the effects of
narcosis by reducing the N2. Nick Comoglio died while practising
an ill-advised attempt to set a new _AIR_ depth record to 500 fsw.
At this depth, narcosis would be very disabling and the possibility
of an O2 toxicity hit would be very high. Both records carry with
them very real hazards, with the Mix divers at that depth, HPNS is
a real hazard, not to mention the sheer amount of gear that must
be carried and the decompression incurred.
There are ways to set this record that are far safer and more
doable than what Nick did. He didn't even have any safety divers
and he wasn't wearing a full-face mask, both of which would likely
have saved his life. Despite this, I am very uncomfortable with
calling Nick a "dumbass" as one contributor here has done. True,
Nick's attempt was poorly done, but I think such comments reflect
more on the writer than they do on the person he is speaking about.
We all do stupid things, with luck, we won't die while doing them
and have some utterly insensitive person call us a "dumbass".

JoeL

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 21:36:40 GMT
From: dev...@thomsoft.com (Olivier Devuns @pulsar)
Subject: Hydrogen [was: Re: Death of Nick, no record, not even close!]
Message-ID: <DEVUNS.95J...@margaux.thomsoft.com>
Organization: Thomson Software Products

In article <3u4bfn$m...@news.sanders.lockheed.com> galp...@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com (Steve Galperin) writes:

> was told by a former North Sea commercial diver that they are operating in
> depths as great as 1400 feet (whee) on mixes containg less than one percent
> oxygen. There was even an series of experiments using hydogen in the gas
> mixes. Apparently the gas is so dense (700 psi) that it becomes difficult
> to breath and the divers develop resperitory infections from extended mouth
> breathing. I think I'll stay in my kiddy pool and do shallow stuff like the
> Andrea Doria.
>
> Stephen Galperin
>

Actually the deepest experiment (in a pressure chamber) was done by COMEX
of France, it was called Hydra-10. They went down to 2300ft (700m) using
several hydrogen-based mixes. In the crew of three, I think only one was
really able to demonstrate work capabilities at 700m+. Even though they
introduced some He in the mix (H2/He/O2) which seemed to suppress some of
the H2 problems, the general impression was that 700m was really a limit
for saturation diving. Well, it's hard to come up with a gas lighter than
Hydrogen, isn't it ?

-- Olivier.

--
Olivier Devuns -- dev...@thomsoft.com || Thomson Software Products
"Views expressed are my own" || San Diego, CA.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 14:14:25 PST
From: rswhi...@pplant.ucdavis.edu (Robert Whitaker)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick, no record, not even close!
Message-ID: <3u41qt$j...@mark.ucdavis.edu>
Organization: UCD

In article <B137ZVVRI2UIK*@MHS>, JOE.M...@x400gw.ameritech.com says...
>
>I just read the several letters on "Death of Nick ...". First let me
say
>I agree with most, I think it's a death wish and I no way endorse diving
>even below 110'. I prefer the 50-60' range, more stuff happening there
>and more bottom time available anyway.
>
>But someone please tell me I'm not crazy. Anyone have a subscription
and
>keep their old issues of Sports Illustrated? I'm absolutely positive I
>read (within the past year or two at most) about a guy and his partner
who
>were going for a deep dive record of 1000'. This wasn't a short
newsclip,
>it was a full article. On the particular dive the reporter covered, one
>guy went to 950', the other guy died, they didn't find him for three
days,
>and when they did, his depth gauge said 995'. He was tangled in the
drop
>line. On board was his ex-wife who held the female depth record at
around
>500'. They had tanks on a line at intervals all the way down. He got
>tangled and couldn't get out. Supposedly, this was to be his final deep
>dive. Obviously, it was.
>
If we are talking about using regular air. The partial pressure of the
oxygen in the mixture doubles at 297' thus making the mixture toxic, like
breathing pure oxygen at >33'. So beyond 300' normal air mixtures are
poison, making dives to such depths deadly. Deeper dives are only
possible with mixed gas where the percentage of oxygen is reduced.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 05:27:22 GMT
From: drah...@netcom.com (Rich Gibson)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick, no record, not even close!
Message-ID: <drahcirrD...@netcom.com>

Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)

Robert Whitaker (rswhi...@pplant.ucdavis.edu) wrote:
: If we are talking about using regular air. The partial pressure of the
: oxygen in the mixture doubles at 297' thus making the mixture toxic, like
: breathing pure oxygen at >33'. So beyond 300' normal air mixtures are
: poison, making dives to such depths deadly. Deeper dives are only
: possible with mixed gas where the percentage of oxygen is reduced.

This is true, but can be overcome with training. Your address reminds me
of my stint at UCD in the early 80's. That inspired this Haiku:

Life at the Ag School
Drink a Beer and Tip a Cow
Where'd our tower go?
--
Rich Gibson drah...@netcom.com [\] PADI DM Candidate
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you can't trust me with a choice, how can you trust me with an Hawaiian
pizza?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 14:24:21 -0400
From: p.l.s...@larc.nasa.gov (Peter L. Spence)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick, no record, not even close!
Message-ID: <9507121424.AA21640@fathom>
Organization: LESC

In article <B137ZVVRI2UIK*@MHS>, JOE.M...@x400gw.ameritech.com writes:
>
> But someone please tell me I'm not crazy. Anyone have a subscription
> and keep their old issues of Sports Illustrated? I'm absolutely
> positive I read (within the past year or two at most) about a guy and
> his partner who were going for a deep dive record of 1000'.
>
> Anybody recall this? Please tell me (and me friends) I'm not crazy.
>

Yes, you are correct. The SI issue was October 3, 1994. The article was
about Sheck Exley and titled "Deep, Dark, and Deadly" by Michael Ray Taylor.

I posted about this issue of SI when it was current and was barraged by
people claiming there was no such article in it. It didn't appear in all
issues. I don't know why.

Exley was breathing mixed gasses not air. Nick's attempted record was on
air.

Pete
p.l.s...@larc.nasa.gov

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 14:50:37
From: ke...@ufl.edu (Ken Sallot)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick, no record, not even close!
Message-ID: <kens.832...@ufl.edu>

In article <B137ZVVRI2UIK*@MHS> JOE.M...@x400gw.ameritech.com writes:

>I just read the several letters on "Death of Nick ...". First let me say
>I agree with most, I think it's a death wish and I no way endorse diving
>even below 110'. I prefer the 50-60' range, more stuff happening there
>and more bottom time available anyway.

>But someone please tell me I'm not crazy. Anyone have a subscription and
>keep their old issues of Sports Illustrated? I'm absolutely positive I
>read (within the past year or two at most) about a guy and his partner who
>were going for a deep dive record of 1000'. This wasn't a short newsclip,
>it was a full article. On the particular dive the reporter covered, one
>guy went to 950', the other guy died, they didn't find him for three days,
>and when they did, his depth gauge said 995'. He was tangled in the drop
>line. On board was his ex-wife who held the female depth record at around
>500'. They had tanks on a line at intervals all the way down. He got
>tangled and couldn't get out. Supposedly, this was to be his final deep
>dive. Obviously, it was.

>Anybody recall this? Please tell me (and me friends) I'm not crazy.

>Joe

>joe.m...@x400gw.ameritech.com

I don't know the issue you're talking about, but the man you're talking about
was Sheck Exley. He was one of the most prolific cave divers (considered the
best cave diver in the world by many), and teacher around. He was not doing an
air dive however. Sheck was trying to hit 1000' on mixed gas which he blended
himself. Because of the mix, he should not have had the problems with O2
toxicity and nitrogen narcosis. However, if what I remember, it was susgested
that he suffered HPNS (high pressure nervous system) and that caused Sheck's
death.

Nick tried to dive on air to a depth of 550'. This was not a wise thing to do
because of O2 toxicity.

=====================================================================
Ken Sallot YMCA Assistant-Instructor
ke...@ufl.edu NSS-CDS / NACD Full Cave
http://grove.ufl.edu/~ken

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 18:16:49 GMT
From: le...@diver.asd.sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick, no record, not even close!
Message-ID: <3u13ih$b...@fido.asd.sgi.com>
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Incorporated

In article <B137ZVVRI2UIK*@mhs>, <JOE.M...@x400gw.ameritech.com> wrote:

Your confusion is about the breathing gas. I assume you're referring to
an article about Sheck Exley, who died attempting to do a very deep dive
(~1000' I think) on a mixture of gasses (I don't know what mix he was using).

This Nick fellow was trying to dive on *air*. The current air record
(and I think this is a record best left untouched) is somewhere between
450 and 500 feet.

One other thing: There is simply no comparison between Sheck Exley and
Nick C. Sheck was a pioneer, one of the greats. He was one of the
guys that wrote the book on deep cave and technical diving. His dives
were well planned, well prepared, and well organized. I don't know what
went wrong in that cenote in Mexico; I don't know if anybody does. However,
I do know that it didn't happen because of a lack of planning, or support.

I feel terrible sadness for the family of Nick C., but, as others have
said, he was asking to die. The lack of planning and surface support for
his endeavor was truly mind-boggling.

And finally, as he steps off the soapbox, a meta-comment:

Topic-drift is a natural phenomenon on Usenet. However, if you're following-
up to a thread, and it's clear there's been some topic drift, please
change the subject to reflect that. I had been ignoring the posts with
a subject of "Death of Nick C...", then accidentally stumbled across one -
it had lots of interesting information about oxygen exposure.

Yours for accurate subject lines,
Lee
--
Lee Jones | "I couldn't say where she's comin' from
le...@sgi.com | But I just met a lady named Dynamo Humm."
415-390-3356 | -Frank Zappa

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 17:35:19 GMT
From: drah...@netcom.com (Rich Gibson)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick, no record, not even close!
Message-ID: <drahcirrD...@netcom.com>

Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)

Lee Jones (le...@diver.asd.sgi.com) wrote:
: This Nick fellow was trying to dive on *air*. The current air record
: (and I think this is a record best left untouched) is somewhere between
: 450 and 500 feet.

525' by Dr. Dan Manion (unless someone else has passed it).
--
Rich Gibson drah...@netcom.com [\] PADI DM Candidate
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you can't trust me with a choice, how can you trust me with an Hawaiian
pizza?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jul 95 11:11:56 EDT
From: JE...@utcvm.utc.edu (Jeff Kell)
Subject: Re: Death of Nick, no record, not even close!
Message-ID: <173DC9D8...@utcvm.utc.edu>
Organization: The University of Tennessee, Chattanooga

In article <drahcirrD...@netcom.com>
drah...@netcom.com (Rich Gibson) writes:
>: This Nick fellow was trying to dive on *air*. The current air record
>: (and I think this is a record best left untouched) is somewhere between
>: 450 and 500 feet.
>525' by Dr. Dan Manion (unless someone else has passed it).

Correct (to my knowledge). Some pictures of Dr Dan and his wife the week
the record was set available at http://opus.admin.utc.edu in the scuba
section as drdan*.jpg. You'll also find the notorious Reef Fish, Robert
Ling, in one of them on the boat with Dan and his wife.

This is by *no means* a nice fancy web site (yet!), I'm just starting to
work up the web access to the former ftp://opus.admin.utc.edu/pub/scuba
(which is still available if you prefer).

Available there are three sets of images I know about:
jeff* - Video capture (not good resolution) of a Xanadu shark dive
in Freeport, Grand Bahama Island.
cozml* - Trip to Cozumel in August 1994
drdan* - Robert Ling's pics of Dr Dan

There are some other images that other's have uploaded that I don't know
much about (they didn't leave descriptions).

[\] Jeff Kell <je...@utcvm.utc.edu>

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1995 13:54:30 GMT
From: No-Name <noname@noplace>
Subject: Re: Death of Nick, no record, not even close!
Message-ID: <3u5sum$k...@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu>
Organization: No-group

The air record is deeper - I won't say how much deeper - or who did it -
because it is a stupid record to try to break.
The diver who broke it did so unconsciously and accidentally - and did
somehow survive - with no rescue being required. The computer recorded
the depth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 08:31:21 GMT
From: tpic...@emr1.emr.ca (Thomas Pichler)
Subject: HELP: Diving at Vulcano Island, Italy
Message-ID: <DBLH0...@emr1.emr.ca>
Organization: Natural Resources Canada, Ottawa

Hello out there,

has anyone heard anything about diving at the island of Vulcano
in Italy. Vulcano is one of the Eolian islands north of Sicily. Any help
will be greatly appreciated.
Please respond by email if possible.

Regards,

Thomas

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 13:25:30 -0400
From: dan...@aol.com (DanW23)
Subject: Re: Cochran Nemesis complaint
Message-ID: <3u10ia$b...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

To Whom it May Concern,

On 6/13/95 I sent an e-mail to Mr, Mike Cochran about a concern that I
have with my Nemesis II. as of today 7/12/95 (one month later) I have not
heard a response from him. Assuming that he did receive the e-mail, (it
never bounced back to me), than this is very poor customer service on
Cochran's part.

Following is a copy of the letter, in case Mike reads this board....

Mike,

I have a question / possible problem with my Nemesis II. I just returned
from a trip to Bonaire, where I used my Nemesis II for 17 dives in 5 days.
On one of the dives I went to a depth (according to my Nem II) of 162
fsw. One of the divers I was diving with was using a Mares Genius, and
his computer read a depth of 171 fsw.

This concerns me a bit, that seems like a pretty large difference, and if
my computer is reading shallow, that is obviously a bad thing for NDC or
deco times.

My question to you is, what is the margin of error for the Nemesis II, and
is it possible that this is inside the margin of error ? I hate to pack
it up and send it in for you to test if I don't have to (read: I don't
want to do with out it for a couple of weeks).

Thanks for your prompt response,

-Dan Weyant
PDIC #7589

P.S. I really appreciate the effort that your company seems to be making
to correct the problems that you have had with keeping your customers
informed.

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 11:53:49 GMT
From: r...@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Rys)
Subject: Re: Cochran Nemesis complaint
Message-ID: <3u31gd$k...@neptune.ethz.ch>
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH

In article <3u10ia$b...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, dan...@aol.com (DanW23) writes:

> I have a question / possible problem with my Nemesis II. I just returned
> from a trip to Bonaire, where I used my Nemesis II for 17 dives in 5 days.
> On one of the dives I went to a depth (according to my Nem II) of 162
> fsw. One of the divers I was diving with was using a Mares Genius, and
> his computer read a depth of 171 fsw.

Isn't the Genius calibrated to fresh water and the Nemesis to salt water.
>From that you could expect a difference of about 3 to 4% (if I remember
correctly). A fresh water calibrated depth guage always shows a greater than
actual depth in salt water.

Now take that and what Carl wrote and the fact that probably your buddy's Genius
(wrist mounted) was located 1 to 2 feet lower than your Nemesis (HP port
mounted), et voila, you may get such a difference at that depth.

Try it next time, with the depth sensor at the same depth and see if the
reading is still off by more than the fresh to salt water difference.

Hope that helps
Michael

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 1995 16:35:36 GMT
From: JoeL Markwell <73700...@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: Cochran Nemesis complaint
Message-ID: <3u8qoo$er9$2...@mhadf.production.compuserve.com>

Organization: via CompuServe Information Service

Michael,

I believe that the Nemesis can detect whether you are in fresh or
salt water and makes the necessary calculations to give you an
accurate reading. What the difference is more likely to be is the
difference in the _calibration_ of each unit. Most dive computers
will have some margin for error. In the Uwatec units it is usually
+/- 1 fsw I believe. The Cochran will likely be the same, so it's
possible to be a couple of feet off just based on that. I would
also assume that the pressure sensors of two different brands
might read differently anyway, so that +/- reading could be off
even more than advertised. One interesting feature of the
Cochrans I've been told is that all of the units are calibrated to
the same standard and therefore they will all read a similar depth.
The claim is that others' do not take that extra step. Of course,
all that means is that if the reading is off by 1 fsw, then _all_
Cochrans will be off by that foot, it doesn't make them any more
accurate from what I understand, it just gives uniformity to
readings from all Cochran units. I wouldn't worry about a
discrepency of a foot or two (or even three) at depth, though, but
if they're off by more than a foot at _ten_ feet, then that's
something to look into.

JoeL

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 95 01:54:47
From: c...@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Carl Heinzl)
Subject: Re: Cochran Nemesis complaint

Message-ID: <CGH.95Ju...@baden.ai.mit.edu>
Organization: M.I.T. Artificial Intelligence Lab.

> On one of the dives I went to a depth (according to my Nem II) of 162
>fsw. One of the divers I was diving with was using a Mares Genius, and
>his computer read a depth of 171 fsw.

That's the problem with having *2* computers - if one's off you don't
know which one is correct so... When diving aggressively, I dive with
2 computers, an analog depth gauge *and* a dive watch (Casio DEP600C).
Excepting the analog depth gauge (which bottoms out at 150'
unfortunately), I've never seen any of the electronic instruments
differ by more than 2' at depth (around 225'), which, at that point is
negligible. I would think that a precision of 1% is fairly reasonable
to expect. I seriously doubt that 9' error at 160' is within
tolerance, however, consider the possibility that *both* computers
were off - his was reading too deep and yours too shallow - on average
that cuts your potential error by half (I'm not saying this actually
happened, just saying it *might* have).

I suggest that you follow up your email to Cochran with a phone call.
I believe that they (recently ?) changed email addressing schemes so
perhaps something just went into a black hole - things like this have
certainly happened before. I'd try to send it again and follow up
with a fax and phone call before I'd really get mad at them.

-Carl-

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 14:41:16 -0400
From: az...@aol.com (AZDav)
Subject: Re: Spare air for flat tires...
Message-ID: <3u150c$d...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

Hi,

>I agree. I have both and hands down, the pony/regulator goes with me to
the track to _quickly_ pump up my tires for autocrossing.

What is "autocrossing"?

Does the LP hose solve the possibilty of blowing a tire out. It seems if
it's made for BC vests, you wouldn't have any danger unless you just kept
inflating the tire without checking. It's at 100 psi, right? So you could
blow an auto tire, but am I correct in assuming it wouldn't overinflate in
just a few seconds?

I still don't know if a pony would do the job for 4 midsize auto tires -
several other posts on the calculations have destoryed my ability to reaon
it out!

David

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 14:56:12 -0400
From: az...@aol.com (AZDav)
Subject: Re: San Diego Shark Attack
Message-ID: <3u15sc$d...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

Hi,

>A few years back (4-6 years?), two kayakers off Santa Monica bay were
attacked and killed. I'm not even sure they found one of the bodies.

Did they determine the species of shark? Funny how you don't read about
this in Canoe & Kayack Magazine...

AZDav

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 10:56:45 GMT
From: mad...@cakabey.ege.edu.tr (Hermann Mader)
Subject: TURKEY : DIVING PARADISE !!!!!
Message-ID: <3u09pd$t...@baum02.ege.edu.tr>
Organization: Ege University Computer Research & Application Center

SAILING IN MEDITERRANEAN & AEGEAIS !!!

Aegean Coast of Turkey is a real paradise for sailors !
Most of sailors follow the famous " Blue Route ", along the Turkish Coast
between Kusadasi,
Bodrum, Marmaris, Fethiye and Antalya. The Shoreline of the Aegean is the
most beautiful
sailing area in the Mediterranean. It is an event to sail in crystal blue sea
water often joint
by following dolphins. Along the coast you will find well protected and
secluded bays,
good anchorage or beautiful sandy beaches where you can enjoy yourself with
swimming,
snorkelling and other watersports.

Turkey has been witness to several great cultures of the past, the remains of
ancient
civilisations.

Take the opportunity to explore historical sites on your own, or to be
professionally
guided, you will get a variety of impressions. !!!

Choose between private retreat on your yacht or the small restaurants you
find in most
of the bays, which are serving a mixture of culinary traditions, using a
range of superb
fresh vegetables, fish, meat and fruits.

It's a great pleasure visiting the picturesque villages, invited by the
hospitality of the people !

IT'S YOUR CHOICE TO COME TO THIS PARADISE FOR SAILORS !!!

All ours yachts are modern French build JEANNEAU & BENETEAU sailing yachts,
with excellent sailing performance; the length of the yachts varies from 10 -
16 meter.
All yachts are according to the same high standards, equipped with extra
cockpit-shower,
Frigoboar-refrigerator, electric windlass and for the navigation with GPS !

Your perfect vacation is our highest priority.

Please ask our very interesting prices for our Yacht Charter Program with or
without crew.

MOTIVA Travel Agency is at your service...

Fax. ++ 90 256 612 36 10

E-mail ; mad...@cakabey.ege.edu.tr

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 17:13:40 GMT
From: BDC...@prodigy.com (Charles Badoian)
Subject: Re: TURKEY : DIVING PARADISE !!!!!
Message-ID: <3u0vs4$1t...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>

Organization: Prodigy Services Company 1-800-PRODIGY

Turkey is also the country that performed genicide on 2 million Armenians,
destroyed mutiple archeological relics by slowly selling them off to the
highest bider, has one of the worst human rights records of any country,
Ya sign me up. . .

The diving might be great but it is no paradise. . .

Sorry couldn't resist.
Charles

Charles Badoian
bdc...@prodigy.com
Dyslexics of the World Untie!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 22:15:13 GMT
From: mi...@msmith.demon.co.uk (Mike Smith)
Subject: Re: TURKEY : DIVING PARADISE !!!!!

Message-ID: <19950712....@msmith.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Mike's Software

In message <3u0vs4$1t...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com> Charles Badoian wrote:

> Turkey is also the country that performed genicide on 2 million Armenians,
> destroyed mutiple archeological relics by slowly selling them off to the
> highest bider, has one of the worst human rights records of any country,
> Ya sign me up. . .
>
> The diving might be great but it is no paradise. . .
>

Yes but when you have all of those German, English, Dutch, Danish, and
French women running around the beaches topless you often forget
little facts like those above and spend an awful lot of time getting
your gear sorted for your five minute dive. ;-)

--
Mike Smith
(A Californian living in Plymouth, England)

** America needs real Fish and Chips **
** England needs Prime Rib **

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 11:06:23 -0400
From: bille...@aol.com (Billevelyn)
Subject: Re: TURKEY : DIVING PARADISE !!!!!
Message-ID: <3u3cpg$1...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

=>Yes but when you have all of those German, English, Dutch, Danish, and
=>French women running around the beaches topless you often forget
=>little facts like those above and spend an awful lot of time getting
=>your gear sorted for your five minute dive. ;-)

Very good points. All those half naked gals sort of take your mind off
the politics. Fact is I never really did care about the politics of Turkey
-- it's their business.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 22:54:58 GMT
From: mi...@msmith.demon.co.uk (Mike Smith)
Subject: Re: TURKEY : DIVING PARADISE !!!!!

Message-ID: <19950714....@msmith.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Mike's Software

In message <3u3cpg$1...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Billevelyn wrote:

> =>Yes but when you have all of those German, English, Dutch, Danish, and
> =>French women running around the beaches topless you often forget
> =>little facts like those above and spend an awful lot of time getting
> =>your gear sorted for your five minute dive. ;-)
>
> Very good points. All those half naked gals sort of take your mind off
> the politics. Fact is I never really did care about the politics of Turkey
> -- it's their business.

The fighting is only in the north at the moment. It is just like Yugoslavia
you can try to help them but only get kicked in the teeth.

I think the US will be in a similar state with the ethnic difficulties it
has... we have already seen mini-wars, LA roits, etc.

Anyway, anyone wanna' talk about Gast 150 PSI oil-less air compressors and
inspecting yachts or am I the only barnicle-scrapper out here.

--
Mike Smith
(A Californian living in Plymouth, England)

** America needs real Fish and Chips **
** England needs Prime Rib **

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 15:06:20 -0400
From: az...@aol.com (AZDav)
Subject: Cousteau is a wimp!
Message-ID: <3u16fc$d...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

Maybe, maybe not. Tell me what either Jacques or Philippe Cousteau is
doing to halt or at least protest the French atomic tests in the Pacific.

Either one would rally worldwide support by steaming the Galypso down
there in protest.

Philippe seems to be occupied with showing how divers the proper procedure
for putting their fins on and off while on an Agressor cruise.

Go figure.

AZDav

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 10:51:11 -0400
From: don...@aol.com (Donward)
Subject: Re: Cousteau is a wimp!
Message-ID: <3u3bsv$1...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

>>Philippe seems to be occupied with showing how divers the proper
procedure
for putting their fins on and off while on an Agressor cruise.>>

Didn't Philippe die several years ago in a helicopter accident? This
would explain his recent abscence.

Safe Diving to all,
Don (Don...@aol.com)

[*Please e-mail responses to me directly. Thank you.]
DISCLAIMER: THE VIEWS EXPRESSED HEREIN ARE SELDOM SHARED BY OTHERS.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 12:14:23 +0100
From: vilb...@iprolink.ch (Francis Vilbois)
Subject: Re: Cousteau is a wimp!
Message-ID: <vilboisf-140...@port43.iprolink.ch>
Organization: Internet ProLink

In article <3u3bsv$1...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, don...@aol.com (Donward) wrote:

> >>Philippe seems to be occupied with showing how divers the proper
> procedure
> for putting their fins on and off while on an Agressor cruise.>>
>
>
> Didn't Philippe die several years ago in a helicopter accident? This
> would explain his recent abscence.

Philippe Cousteau died in a helicopter accident in Portugal!

--
Francis Vilbois

e-mail: vilb...@iprolink.ch

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 15:23:57 GMT

From: sd...@OES.ORST.EDU (Stephen M Dodd)

Subject: Re: Cousteau is a wimp!
Message-ID: <3u3dqd$2...@news.orst.edu>
Organization: Oregon Extension Service

In article <3u16fc$d...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, AZDav <az...@aol.com> wrote:
>Maybe, maybe not. Tell me what either Jacques or Philippe Cousteau is
>doing to halt or at least protest the French atomic tests in the Pacific.
>
>Either one would rally worldwide support by steaming the Galypso down
>there in protest.
>

While it may seem obvious to you that this should be done it is clearly
financially impossible for anyone to field a ship and crew for such a
venture on a moments notice. Have you ever funded any sort of boating
venture?

The Cousteaus have made incredible contributions to environmentalisim.
They have done so with funds they raised themselves. I find it rather
cheap to criticize or attempt to micromanage their contributions.

I met Jean-Michelle and found him to be a warm and freindly person
excuding a gentle nature. I can't imagine him being confrontational in
nature. I find it telling to see them so genuinely interested in
helping newbies with technique. Many in their position wouldn't
enjoy helping others.

I bet the approach of the Cousteaus does a lot more for the effort
than any psuedo-militant approach I've heard discussed recently in the
bars after a dive. So much big talk ...

Steve

>Philippe seems to be occupied with showing how divers the proper procedure
>for putting their fins on and off while on an Agressor cruise.
>
>Go figure.
>
>AZDav

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1995 00:13:27 -0400
From: az...@aol.com (AZDav)
Subject: Re: Cousteau is a wimp!
Message-ID: <3u4qt7$f...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

Stephen writes:

>While it may seem obvious to you that this should be done it is clearly
financially impossible for anyone to field a ship and crew for such a
venture on a moments notice. Have you ever funded any sort of boating
venture?

Yes, I have. However, Cousteau needn't head out to the S. Pacific. He can
just hold a press converence.

The silence is deafening, IMO.

AZDav

I bet the approach of the Cousteaus does a lot more for the effort
than any psuedo-militant approach I've heard discussed recently in the
bars after a dive. So much big talk ...

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1995 15:34:24 GMT

From: sd...@OES.ORST.EDU (Stephen M Dodd)

Subject: Re: Cousteau is a wimp!
Message-ID: <3u62q0$a...@news.orst.edu>
Organization: Oregon Extension Service

In article <3u4qt7$f...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, AZDav <az...@aol.com> wrote:
>Stephen writes:
>
>>While it may seem obvious to you that this should be done it is clearly
> financially impossible for anyone to field a ship and crew for such a
> venture on a moments notice. Have you ever funded any sort of boating
> venture?
>
>Yes, I have. However, Cousteau needn't head out to the S. Pacific. He can
>just hold a press converence.
>
>The silence is deafening, IMO.
>

And probably intentional. Perhaps they wish to avoid association with
some well known but sub-media-coverage militant efforts mounting in the
area??? Know what I mean??? Take it from me there are people running
around the pacific with bombs and very bad intentions for major
enviromental violaters. I have no more detail ... just rumor and
common sense.

Steve

>AZDav

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 1995 05:04:34 -0400
From: az...@aol.com (AZDav)
Subject: Re: Cousteau is a wimp!
Message-ID: <3u80b2$a...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

Steve writes:

>Perhaps they wish to avoid association with
some well known but sub-media-coverage militant efforts mounting in the
area??? Know what I mean??? Take it from me there are people running
around the pacific with bombs and very bad intentions for major
enviromental violaters. I have no more detail ... just rumor and
common sense.

Well common sense tells me the time is NOW for the Cousteaus' to hold a
press conference at least. If they could steam the Calypso down there, and
if the French milita dared board it with commandos, can you imagine the
press coverage and world reaction? I think the French tests could indeed
be stopped.

AZDav

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 1995 13:41:22 GMT
From: Focu...@ix.netcom.com (Robert Keeney )
Subject: Re: Cousteau is a wimp! - Cousteau Soc. - Where based?
Message-ID: <3u8gi2$d...@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom

July 15, 1995

Does anybody know where the headquarters of the Cousteau Society is
located? MIGHT they operate under a legal structure of the French
government?

In the USA, the non-profit 501(c)(3) bars non-profits from getting too
involved in political stances - unless set up for that purpose (I
believe).

Does anybody know what the real situation is, or are we all just
"ratchet jawing" on this thread?

Anybody know the reality of this situation,

Robert Keeney

******************************************************************

In <3u80b2$a...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> az...@aol.com (AZDav) writes:
>
>Steve writes:
>
>Well common sense tells me the time is NOW for the Cousteaus' to hold
a
>press conference at least. If they could steam the Calypso down there,
and
>if the French milita dared board it with commandos, can you imagine
the
>press coverage and world reaction? I think the French tests could
indeed
>be stopped.
>
>AZDav

--
Robert Keeney, OWSI Marilyn King, OW, DS
FOCUS ON TRAVEL - SOFT SCUBA
Voice: (305) 557-1006 Fax: (305) 557-8007
Focu...@ix.netcom.com
* * * * * * * Stress-Free Dive & Ski Vacations * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 15:32:56 -0400
From: az...@aol.com (AZDav)
Subject: Re: Cousteau is a wimp!
Message-ID: <3u3sd8$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

I tried to recall the post just after hitting the send button when I
realized it was the other son (Michael ?). Philippe died in a helicopter
crash years ago.

I wish someone from the Cousteau organization would make a stand on French
nuclear testing. Only Greenpeace seems to have any guts to get involved.

AZDav

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 20:25:01 GMT

From: sd...@OES.ORST.EDU (Stephen M Dodd)

Subject: Re: Cousteau is a wimp!
Message-ID: <3u3vet$f...@news.orst.edu>
Organization: Oregon Extension Service

In article <3u3sd8$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, AZDav <az...@aol.com> wrote:
>I tried to recall the post just after hitting the send button when I
>realized it was the other son (Michael ?). Philippe died in a helicopter
>crash years ago.
>
>I wish someone from the Cousteau organization would make a stand on French
>nuclear testing. Only Greenpeace seems to have any guts to get involved.
>
>AZDav

Again I would like to point out that The abstinance of the Cousteau
organization on this issue may not represent a lack of guts. I
recently sat in on a conversation in a bar with several divers in Palau
where various personal stories were circulated about extreme and
militant operations challenging environmental offenders. I won't
comment on the possible techniques discussed except to imply that they
involved the "truck, oil, and fertilizer" model. I can't say that I
wouldn't listen to arguments claiming that the environmental issues
might warrent this. The harbor was full of smallish ships coated with
shark skins caught long lining. I was appalled.

BUT ...

If a well established and well funded organization such as that of the
Cousteau's were to openly participate in such discussions or the later
execution of extreme activities they could easily be removed from the
arena through legal process.

I believe that organizations such as Cousteau's do care a great deal
and may even support at heart many extreme views. But, I also believe
they wish to retain their current ability to intervene LEGALLY as well.
If they were to show up at a site of conflict and later be connected to
illegal methods they would loose all legal sanction for their input.
If we lost groups such as theirs we would find ourselves ONLY able to
work through extremists. The big boys would have us all for lunch ...

Do you get it????

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 23:48:30 GMT
From: schi...@vnet.ibm.com (Wayne F. Schildhauer)
Subject: Re: Cousteau is a wimp!
Message-ID: <DBoI4...@bocanews.bocaraton.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM Corporation

>>I wish someone from the Cousteau organization would make a stand on French
>>nuclear testing. Only Greenpeace seems to have any guts to get involved.

The Cousteau's and the Cousteau Society could at least make a statement (at
least I have not heard one). They were certainly quick and extremely vocal in
condemning the US for its (correct) decision not to support the Rio agreement,
which was a complete sham.

Wayne F. Schildhauer
Boca Raton, Florida

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1995 06:09:07 GMT
From: Focu...@ix.netcom.com (Robert Keeney )
Subject: Re: Cousteau is a wimp!
Message-ID: <3u51m3$g...@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom

In <DBoI4...@bocanews.bocaraton.ibm.com> schi...@vnet.ibm.com (Wayne
F. Schildhauer) writes:
>
>>>I wish someone from the Cousteau organization would make a stand on
French
>>>nuclear testing. Only Greenpeace seems to have any guts to get
involved.
>
>The Cousteau's and the Cousteau Society could at least make a
statement (at
>least I have not heard one). They were certainly quick and extremely
vocal in
>condemning the US for its (correct) decision not to support the Rio
agreement,
>which was a complete sham.
>
>Wayne F. Schildhauer
>Boca Raton, Florida
>
**************************************

Bastille Day, 1995

WHERE does Cousteau Society receive its major funding? Can Rush
Limbaugh EVER say anything negative about his show's sponsors?

The why's sometimes can be too obvious to perceive,

Robert Keeney
--
Robert Keeney, OWSI Marilyn King, OW, DS
FOCUS ON TRAVEL - SOFT SCUBA
Voice: (305) 557-1006 Fax: (305) 557-8007
Focu...@ix.netcom.com
* * * * * * * Stress-Free Dive & Ski Vacations * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 13:38:49 GMT
From: Jim Clymer <tec...@usdivers.com>
Subject: Re: Cousteau is a wimp!
Message-ID: <3u37l9$r...@ni1.ni.net>
Organization: U.S. Divers Co.

Philippe Cousteau is dead. He died in a plane crash back in the 70's. You
are talking about Jean Michel.

------------------------------

End of rec-scuba Digest
******************************

The article backlog is 465092 bytes, and 324 articles.

ADMIN...@ccmail.wcc.com

unread,

Jul 16, 1995, 3:00:00 AM7/16/95

Message undeliverable at this time

id AA08352; Sat, 15 Jul 95 23:12:45 MDT
Received: from stanley.cis.Brown.EDU (stanley.cis.brown.edu [128.148.176.55]) by listserv.brown.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id AAA10891; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 00:19:03 -0400

Received: from BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU by BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b)

with NJE id 8553 for SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU; Sun, 16 Jul 1995
00:17:31 -0400

Received: from BROWNVM (NJE origin SMTP@BROWNVM) by BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (LMail

V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3438; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 00:17:31 -0400

Received: from scifi.maid.com by BROWNVM.brown.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP;

Sun, 16 Jul 95 00:17:04 EDT
Received: (from njs@localhost) by scifi.maid.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA27084;
Sun, 16 Jul 1995 00:18:09 -0400
Approved-By: Nick Simicich <n...@SCIFI.EMI.NET>
Message-Id: <1995071604...@scifi.maid.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 00:18:09 -0400

Reply-To: rec-...@cs.utexas.edu
Sender: Scuba Digest Redistribution <SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
From: Nick Simicich <n...@scifi.emi.net>

Subject: rec-scuba Digest V4 #616

To: Multiple recipients of list SCUBA-D <SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>

rec-scuba Digest Sun, 16 Jul 95 Volume 4 : Issue 616

Today's Topics:
Cozumel Side Trips
Dura Bag B.C.D.
EAR PROBLEMS INFO? [3]
FS D.U.I. Drysuit CF200X Large crushed foam type
FS: Hotframes Scuba Mask
Good wetsuits. [6]
More Cozumel Side Trips
Old Air Question [7]
req: info on Florida diving [5]
SCUBA Gear For Sale [2]
Sherwood Oasis II Recommendations vs Maximus
Tauchcomputer
Western Australia [3]
WWW-Tauchen in D,A,CH (German)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Jul 1995 17:12:45 +0800
From: uspe...@mcl.ucsb.edu (Thomas Spear)
Subject: Re: Good wetsuits.
Message-ID: <uspeat00-090...@d-slip-66.as.ucsb.edu>
Organization: ucsb

Sea Quest Carrea Series are great for cold water conditions. The 4mm suits
are excellent quality, and the next best to dry suit diving.

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 15:54:26 GMT
From: pa...@nmo.gtegsc.com (Paul Thompson)
Subject: Re: Good wetsuits.
Message-ID: <3u0r7i$9...@gtenmo1.nmo.gtegsc.com>
Organization: GTE NMO

In article 9...@msmith.demon.co.uk, mi...@msmith.demon.co.uk (Mike Smith) writes:
>In message <uspeat00-090...@d-slip-66.as.ucsb.edu> Thomas Spear wrote:
>
>> Sea Quest Carrea Series are great for cold water conditions. The 4mm suits
>> are excellent quality, and the next best to dry suit diving.
>
>I'm sorry I'd need to be SEVERLY hypo in a 7.5 mm before I would even considing
>fighting with a dry-suit! Hell they are the most over-rated things.

I just bought a 7mm Wet Suit and have been diving in 53 degree
waters around the Puget Sound area. I have yet to be cold in this type
of suit except when sitting on the bottom waiting for my turn to
flood my mask etc. during my open water training. I hear the water temp
may go down into the mid 40's during the winter months. Do you have
any predictions at what point I will start feeling the cold and
become uncomfortable?

>Mike Smith
>(A Californian living in Plymouth, England)
>
> ** America needs real Fish and Chips **
> ** England needs Prime Rib **

Paul Thompson

Insert witty .signature here --->

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 17:24:08 GMT
From: afai...@compusmart.ab.ca (Andrew Fairservice)
Subject: Re: Good wetsuits.
Message-ID: <3u3jun$q...@bernie.compusmart.ab.ca>
Organization: CompuSmart Edmonton

pa...@nmo.gtegsc.com (Paul Thompson) wrote:

>In article 9...@msmith.demon.co.uk, mi...@msmith.demon.co.uk (Mike Smith) writes:
>>In message <uspeat00-090...@d-slip-66.as.ucsb.edu> Thomas Spear wrote:
>>
>>> Sea Quest Carrea Series are great for cold water conditions. The 4mm suits
>>> are excellent quality, and the next best to dry suit diving.
>>
>>I'm sorry I'd need to be SEVERLY hypo in a 7.5 mm before I would even considing
>>fighting with a dry-suit! Hell they are the most over-rated things.

>I just bought a 7mm Wet Suit and have been diving in 53 degree
>waters around the Puget Sound area. I have yet to be cold in this type
>of suit except when sitting on the bottom waiting for my turn to
>flood my mask etc. during my open water training. I hear the water temp
>may go down into the mid 40's during the winter months. Do you have
>any predictions at what point I will start feeling the cold and
>become uncomfortable?

It's nice to hear you speak well of wet suits. A lot of the people I
have talked to always dive dry and almost make fun of people in wet
suits. Considering the expense and hassle of the dry suit, they don't
seem to make much sense to me unless you are in VERY cold water..

Just a newcomers thoughts...

TTYL...Andrew

Andrew G. Fairservice, VE6HBY
Redwater, Alberta
afai...@compusmart.ab.ca

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 14:58:40 -0700
From: Brian Keffeler <keff...@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Good wetsuits.
Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.91j.95071...@hardy.u.washington.edu>
Organization: University of Washington

On 12 Jul 1995, Paul Thompson wrote:

> I just bought a 7mm Wet Suit and have been diving in 53 degree
> waters around the Puget Sound area. I have yet to be cold in this type
> of suit except when sitting on the bottom waiting for my turn to
> flood my mask etc. during my open water training. I hear the water temp
> may go down into the mid 40's during the winter months. Do you have
> any predictions at what point I will start feeling the cold and
> become uncomfortable?

I've got your basic 6 mm wet suit (farmer john/jacket) which I use in
Puget Sound. Generally, it's very comfortable temperature-wise while I'm
in the water. In fact, I usually hear more complaints about the cold from
people I dive with who wear drysuits. The coldest I've ever been was
after the second dive of my final day of certification in early March,
water temp 44 F, air temp about 36 F, overcast and threatening to rain (as
usual) and a bit of wind thrown in just for fun. Brrrrrr. Except for
days like that, I've never had a problem. Best suggestion, take a thermos
full of hot (not too hot!) water along and dump some in your wetsuit (esp
gloves and boots) between dives. Feels great!

-Brian (who's going night diving in...7 hrs (damn daylight savings time!)
keff...@u.washington.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 18:45:51 GMT
From: mi...@msmith.demon.co.uk (Mike Smith)
Subject: Re: Good wetsuits.
Message-ID: <19950713....@msmith.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Mike's Software

In message <Pine.ULT.3.91j.95071...@hardy.u.washington.edu> Brian Keffeler wrote:

>
>
> On 12 Jul 1995, Paul Thompson wrote:
>
> > I just bought a 7mm Wet Suit and have been diving in 53 degree
> > waters around the Puget Sound area. I have yet to be cold in this type
> > of suit except when sitting on the bottom waiting for my turn to
> > flood my mask etc. during my open water training. I hear the water temp
> > may go down into the mid 40's during the winter months. Do you have
> > any predictions at what point I will start feeling the cold and
> > become uncomfortable?

Spine pad?

--
Mike Smith
(A Californian living in Plymouth, England)

** America needs real Fish and Chips **
** England needs Prime Rib **

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 14:19:04 GMT
From: Ted Cassel <ted.c...@DaytonOH.attgis.COM>
Subject: Re: Good wetsuits.
Message-ID: <DBpMF...@falcon.daytonoh.attgis.com>
Organization: AT&T GIS

"It's nice to hear you speak well of wet suits. A lot of the people I
have talked to always dive dry and almost make fun of people in wet
suits. Considering the expense and hassle of the dry suit, they don't
seem to make much sense to me unless you are in VERY cold water.."

Concerning the hassle of dry suits, I own a Viking and it is way less hassle
than my wet suit ever was. All I have to do is wax the zipper, dust it with
talc, roll it up and put it in the bag. A lot less hassle than washing it,
and then waiting for it to dry. Also, a lot easier to get on and off. My
wife says I'm geting old, but I even use it when we go tothe springs in
Florida, just because it is so easy and comfortable.

Ted

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 11:38:48 GMT
From: Torben Mikkelsen <t...@hum.auc.dk>
Subject: Western Australia
Message-ID: <3u0c88$n...@aud1.aud.auc.dk>
Organization: Aalborg University

Can anyone tell me about some good diving spots along the west coast
of Australia. They must be suitable for "not very experienced divers".

Thanks

Torben Mikkelsen

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 95 11:00:33 +0900
From: rkla...@vax2.curtin.EDU.AU (JOSHUA "toolkit" BOYD)
Subject: Re: Western Australia
Message-ID: <1995Jul1...@cuppa.curtin.edu.au>
Organization: Curtin University of Technology

In article <3u0c88$n...@aud1.aud.auc.dk>, Torben Mikkelsen <t...@hum.auc.dk> writes:
> Can anyone tell me about some good diving spots along the west coast
> of Australia. They must be suitable for "not very experienced divers".
>
> Thanks
>
> Torben Mikkelsen

I would recommend going on a charter trip to Rottnest Island,
off Perth. This will cost around A$45pp for two dives, not
including equipment. The depth on Rottnest charter dives ranges from
around 5 to 35 metres, depending on location. There are a large number
of dive sites on all sides of the island, so you can be reasonably
certain that some of them will be sutiable regardless of the weather.
Look for diving shops in the phone book when you get there, or send
me an e-mail for further information. The scenery at Rotto is very
pretty, there is lots of plant life, lots of fish and even some caves.

The dives at Rottnest are far and away better than any shore
dives off Perth. Rottnest is about 1hr by boat from Perth (Fremantle).

Other places to dive in WA:

Albany
Esperance (Sanko Harvest wreck, biggest divable wreck in the
world, I think)
Exmouth

------------------------------------------------------------
Joshua Boyd
rkla...@cc.curtin.edu.au

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 08:46:08 +0100 (BST)
From: Ce...@lucs-mac.novell.leeds.ac.uk (Gordon Mitchell)
Subject: Re: Western Australia
X-XXMessage-ID: <AC2BDF810F015DF1@env_02.leeds.ac.uk>
Organization: University of Leeds

> Can anyone tell me about some good diving spots along the west coast
> of Australia. They must be suitable for "not very experienced divers".

> Torben Mikkelsen

Perth has some good diving but if you are travelling farther north the
Ningaloo reef offers excellent diving. Leave the Perth to Darwin road
and head up the peninsula to Exmouth. On the way there is easy shore
diving to coral reef at coral bay, although you can see plenty just by
snorkelling. At Exmouth there is a dive shop that runs trips to various
places on the reef. They visit plenty of sites suitable for the less
experienced. There are some very nice "easy" dives around the Mandurian
islands, on a shallow wreck nearby, around a local pier, and throughout
the bay. There is also plenty of diving on the main reef, which means
travelling around the cape to the open sea. Exmouth is also one of the
few places where you can join trips to swim with whale sharks (only at
certain times of the year, and if you have plenty of money!). I may have
a phone number for the dive shop at Exmouth. Email direct if you want it.

Gordon Mitchell
Leeds, UK

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 11:53:30 GMT
From: do...@ix.netcom.com (Doc)
Subject: EAR PROBLEMS INFO?
Message-ID: <3u0d3q$o...@ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom

Does anyone know about ear trouble. I've never had any before, but
returning from Cozumel yesterday, I started getting some buzzing in my
right ear. Now when I talk on the phone, using the right ear sounds like
Micky Mouse or something. I've heard of folks having toubles that fix
themselves in about a week or so, but I don't want to wait if it could
cause damage. Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks

Warren

do...@ix.netcom.com

--
\\\///
~ ~
@ @
>
\__/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 12:35:47 GMT
From: Art Greenberg <agree...@sarnoff.com>
Subject: Re: EAR PROBLEMS INFO?
Message-ID: <DBnMz...@nova.sarnoff.com>
Organization: David Sarnoff Research Center, Inc.

Warren,

Sounds similar to _one_ of the symptoms I experienced when I punctured an
eardrum. The puncture closed very quickly, and my middle ear filled with
fluid. Until the fluid drained, I experienced a hearing loss and the
"mickey mouse" effect on those things I _could_ hear.

As I understand it, you don't have to rupture an eardrum to get fluid in
the middle ear. Any barotrauma that is severe enough will cause the same
thing. And fluid in the middle ear presents a serious infection risk. I
suspect that's what happened to you.

I suggest you see an ENT, preferably one with experience treating divers.
Have your ear checked. If you have fluid in there, you will probably be
put on an antibiotic for 10 days or so. Expect it to take as long as 8
weeks to clear well enough before you dive again.

=Art=

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 19:43:36 GMT
From: Russell Hogg <Ru...@russhogg.demon.co.uk>
Subject: EAR PROBLEMS INFO?
Message-ID: <805664...@russhogg.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Myorganisation

Warren,

See your doctor as soon as possible. Better still, see an
ear specialist with a knowledge of diving. Better safe than
sorry.
--
Russ Hogg
e-mail: ru...@russhogg.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 15:56:21 -0400
From: Jason C Miller <jm...@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: FS: Hotframes Scuba Mask
Message-ID: <Yk12XZO00...@andrew.cmu.edu>
Organization: Sophomore, Social & Decision Sciences, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

For Sale

ScubaPro Hot Frames Mask, hand-painted Marti Gras
has a black insert
Used only twice, new condition (not even a nick)
includes snorkel sticker and carrying case

Best offer

-------------------------------------http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/u/jmdk/
|\\| Jason Miller |//| jm...@cmu.edu CALL (412)/325-2036
|//| Information Systems & Comp Sci |\\| PGP via finger PAGE (800)/901-0840
|\\| Carnegie Mellon University |//| j...@sei.cmu.edu FAX (412)/268-5758
In the end we will conserve only what we love, we will love only what we
understand, we will understand only what we are taught.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 16:12:54 -0400
From: bo...@mindspring.com (Bob Merritt KA4BYP)
Subject: SCUBA Gear For Sale
Message-ID: <bobm.6....@mindspring.com>
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises

I'm posting this message for a friend, if anybody
is interested in these items please email me directly
and I'll relay to him.

--------------------

SCUBA EQUIPMENT FOR SALE

Perfect for couple

MUST SELL!!

ONE OWNER, USED 4 TIMES

In 'Brand New' Condition

Full setup for male and female including:

Extreme Plus regulators w/ Dacor octopus
Dacor OMNI Dive Computer w/console
Nautica Soft pack BC's
Full set of Farmer John 1/4" Lined Wet suits
Dive lights
Knives
Al. neon yellow tanks
Shot Pellet weights (50lbs) w/ belts
+ little extras

Sell separate or as a set

BEST OFFER
----------------------

----
Bob Merritt KA4BYP "Wide World of Packet Radio"
PO Box 185 http://www.mindspring.com/~bobm/
Griffin, GA 30224

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 17:50:56 GMT
From: Steve Linley <Linl...@cris.com>
Subject: Re: SCUBA Gear For Sale
Message-ID: <3u3me0$e...@warp.cris.com>
Organization: Submerged Video Productions

Hey Bob,
Does packet even come close to surfing the net?
Steve (WA8YXA)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 12:20:18 GMT
From: rai...@netcom.netcom.com (Rain King)
Subject: Re: Sherwood Oasis II Recommendations vs Maximus

Message-ID: <RAINING.95...@netcom.netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line services

In article <Pine.SGI.3.91.950706...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu> "Christopher D. Mackenzie " <cmac...@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu> writes:
> I use the Oasis || to help alleviate dry mouth, can't say the difference
> is night and day......but anything helps, I/m trying a solution my ENT
> gave me to help. As to upside down diving the oasis does breath wet and
> strained upside down, for this I switch to my secondary, an Omega ||,
> which will breath in any direction. If you have any other 'dry' tips let
> me know.

I find that my Omega 2 breathes fairly wet. I take from your post that
you don't feel the Omega keeps your mouth wet enough. Also, how do you
keep your Omega from free-flowing when not in use. I keep mine tuned
so finely that I have to be careful about it freeflowing when not in
my mouth. The only way I can use it as an octo is to turn it mouth-
down and stick it in my pocket. I would rather do this than turn it
down and lose the way it breathes so freely now.

--
....and I am the Rain King
__________________________________________________________________________
She said, "I'm fine, I'm okay". Cover you up trembling hands. There's
indecision when you know you ain't got nothing left. When the good times
never stay and the cheap thrills always seem to fade away. [MHM: (2x3)]

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 12:52:47 GMT
From: li...@synaptics.ie (Linda Waters)
Subject: req: info on Florida diving
Message-ID: <3u0giv$a...@news.Ieunet.ie>
Organization: SYNaPTICS

Hi All,

I wonder if anyone out there could supply me with information about dive
sites in Florida - particularly places within driving distance of Orlando
or Tampa.

Any further references or snail-mail addresses would also be appreciated!

Thanks,

Linda.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 13:32:41 -0400
From: Eric Fairbank <fair...@access2.digex.net>
Subject: Re: req: info on Florida diving
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950712...@access2.digex.net>
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, USA

On 12 Jul 1995, Linda Waters wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I wonder if anyone out there could supply me with information about dive
> sites in Florida - particularly places within driving distance of Orlando
> or Tampa.
>

I just returned from a diving vacation in florida. We spent a week in
Key West and four days in Ft Lauderdale. I had heard the diving was great
off of Boynton Beach, so we drove up there and dove with Reef Dive Center
in Lantana. They are located on Ocean Blvd between route 1 and A1A. Our
first dive there was to a wreck known as The Budweiser. It is in 93 fsw.
As soon as we were below the surface we could see the top of the wreck!!
Great vis! We also did three reef dives in that area. There was much more
life and color to the reef than there was around Key West and Looe Key.
We saw several nurse shark, loggerheads, rays, eels and lots of smaller
fish. It is all drift diving in that area. Just go down and ride along
with the current. It was great. The people at Reef were very nice.

You can get more info about boynton beach diving on the Web at:
http://www.emi.net/boynton/scuba.html

Also check out the boynton beach slide show from the South Florida Dive
Journal's page at: http://www.florida.net/scuba/dive/

Dive safe!
Eric

,,,
Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive. (o o)
------------------------------------------------------oOO--(_)--OOo---------
fair...@access.digex.net http://www.access.digex.net/~fairbank/

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 19:56:08 GMT
From: Tom Miller <tomi...@gate.net>
Subject: Re: req: info on Florida diving
Message-ID: <3u19co$12...@news.gate.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

---------------------------------1244738791488
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Linda,give the Scuba Club in West Palm Beach a call at:

800-835-2466 or 407-824-2466

---------------------------------1244738791488
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain

Come dive with America's only "Country Club for Divers", The Scuba Club, Inc. Although you need not be a member to dive with us, a =
certification card and log book are required. We are conveniently located on the water in beautiful West Palm Beach, Florida, just o=
ne mile south of the Palm Beach Inlet.
Our specially trained divemasters and instructors will escort you on all dives: whether it be the lush reefs or exciting wrecks in =
50 to 80 feet of the Atlantic Gulfstream waters. The blue Gulfstream affords the most unusual and varied diving in the continental U=
S., and comes closest to land along the Palm Beaches. Our dive sights are located within 20 minutes of the facility.
The diving will satisfy the experienced diver and excite the beginner. We encounter reef residents and pelagic visitors. There is =
an assortment of turtles, moray eels, amberjacks, sharks, angelfish, barracuda, rays, and aquatic cast of thousands that swim across=
the underwater Atlantic stage.
While we cater to the individual, group diving is welcomed. Beginners and more advanced divers will find the diving in Palm Beach t=
o be a memorable experience.
We dive 6 days a week (Tuesday through Sunday), with 2 dives on weekdays and 3 dives on the weekends & holidays. Our U.S. Coast Gua=
rd certified boat is equipped with the latest safety equipment, and our Captain and deckhands are there to make your dive pleasurab=
le. Our dives are one-tank dives (special two-tank dives are available), and due to the popularity of our diving, we do recommend th=
at reservations be made in advance.
Our facility has a complete pro shop, swimming pool, deep tank, hot showers, steam room, photo lab, equipment repair department, pi=
cnic area, Intercoastal beach, classroom and lounge, plenty of parking, and our boat is docked on the premises.
When diving with us, we offer a full line of rental equipment. From snorkels to dive computers, our rental department can handle yo=
ur needs.
Along with dive trips (local and foreign), we also offer nationally recognized certification courses
(NAUI, PADI, SSI, YMCA), and referral training dives. Our regular course takes 3 weeks, but we also offer a full certification cours=
e that can be completed in one week's time.
The Scuba Club, Inc. has many benefits to members: discounts on equipment, reduced rates for diving, preference on the dive boats, =
free air while diving with us, use of the facilities, etc. We do have out-of-town memberships available.
Out-of-town divers can stay in our fully equipped, one bedroom suite. Located upstairs and overlooking the water, the suite can sle=
ep 6 people and includes 1 1\2 baths, full kitchen, and laundry. If a hotel is what you want, let us book your reservation with one =
of the country's finest hotels, right on the ocean (special rate for divers).
When in the Palm Beaches, please stop in for a visit. We're very proud of our facility and we'd like to share it with you. Won't yo=
u come diving soon?

The Scuba Club, Inc.
4708 Poinsettia Avenue
West Palm Beach, Fl
33407

Telephone: 407-844-2466
Fax: 407-844-8256
Toll Free: 800-835-2466

Dive Prices:

Dive Trip-Member $18.00; Guest $20.00
Dive Trip with tank & weights
Member $23.00; Guest $26.00
Dive Trip with all gear & wet suit
Member $40.00; Guest $46.00

We are able to offer a good deal for the diver who dives twice on the same day. If you dive the morning and the afternoon dives, we=
only charge you $20.00 for the second dive, regardless of the amount of gear that you rent.

---------------------------------1244738791488--

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 19:58:53 GMT
From: Tom Miller <tomi...@gate.net>
Subject: Re: req: info on Florida diving
Message-ID: <3u19ht$12...@news.gate.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

---------------------------------13876293912033
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Linda,give the Scuba Club in West Palm Beach a call at:

800-835-2466 or 407-824-2466

---------------------------------13876293912033
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain

The Scuba Club, Inc.
4708 Poinsettia Avenue
West Palm Beach, Fl
33407

Telephone: 407-844-2466
Fax: 407-844-8256
Toll Free: 800-835-2466

Dive Prices:

Dive Trip-Member $18.00; Guest $20.00
Dive Trip with tank & weights
Member $23.00; Guest $26.00
Dive Trip with all gear & wet suit
Member $40.00; Guest $46.00

---------------------------------13876293912033--

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 20:35:08 GMT
From: Dan Volker <d...@gate.net>
Subject: Re: req: info on Florida diving
Message-ID: <3u1bls$1h...@news.gate.net>

Organization: South Florida Dive Journal <http://www.florida.net/scuba/dive>

li...@synaptics.ie (Linda Waters) wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I wonder if anyone out there could supply me with information about dive
>sites in Florida - particularly places within driving distance of Orlando
>or Tampa.
>
>Any further references or snail-mail addresses would also be appreciated!
>
>Thanks,
>
>Linda.
Linda, check out the SOUTH FLORIDA DIVE JOURNAL at
http://www.florida.net/scuba/dive
it will answer all your questions about the best places to dive in
Florida.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 13:01:55 GMT
From: vil...@muc.de (Thomas Villinger)
Subject: WWW-Tauchen in D,A,CH (German)
Message-ID: <3u0ktk$4...@marvin.muc.de>
Organization: MUC.DE e.v -- private Internet access

Ich habe versucht, bzw. versuche gerade eine WWW-Seite aufzubauen,
die Tauchen in Deutschland behandelt. Die Seiten sind noch sehr im
Versuchsstadium. Es sollen Tauchgebiete beschrieben, n|tzliche
Information verteilt und Links zu anderen Tauch-relevanten Sachen
angeboten werden.

Da mein Wissen |ber deutsche (und vstereichische und schweizerische
Tauchgebiete) nicht sehr umfangreich ist und sich hauptsdchlich auf
den Raum M|nchen beschrdnkt bin ich auf Eure Mithilfe angewiesen.

Wie gesagt es soll ein Versuch sein, der hoffentlich klappt :)

Ich wdre auch froh, vstereichische und schweizerische Pldtze aunehmen
zu kvnnen :)

Die URL: http://www.muc.de/~villing

Gr|_e,

Thom

Dive Safely!
Thomas Villinger, Munich, Germany
ro...@remora.muc.de or vil...@muc.de

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 13:13:51 GMT
From: i606...@ws.rz.tu-bs.de (.... Klas)
Subject: Tauchcomputer
Message-ID: <3u0hqf$i...@ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
Organization: Technische Universitaet Braunschweig, Germany

Since this is just for german readers I will continue in german, sorry.

Falls in Deutschland jemand diese Newsgroup liest und dann auch noch
zufaellig einen Tauchcomputer zu verkaufen hat (vorzugsweise Aladin Pro)
dann bitte bei mir ueber P-Mail melden.
Danke

STEFAN

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 13:18:14 GMT
From: don...@dfw.net (Donald)
Subject: Dura Bag B.C.D.
Message-ID: <3u0bg5$7...@fnord.dfw.net>
Organization: DFWNet -- Public Internet Access

A new store opened up in the area. And thay are working on a deal on a
Dura Bag B.C.D..... I have not heard of them before and would like to
know what you know about them. Thanks for your time.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 10:07:14
From: lo...@mind.net (User Full NameFred Lord)
Subject: FS D.U.I. Drysuit CF200X Large crushed foam type
Message-ID: <lord.65....@mind.net>
Organization: InfoStructure

Good condition
with leg pocket and all accsarys
Email for more info paid $1800.00 asking $750.00 OBO
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 14:09:24 GMT
From: ggunn@aton (Gordon Gunn)
Subject: Re: Cozumel Side Trips
Message-ID: <DBLwn...@oakhill.sps.mot.com>

Organization: Motorola SPS, Austin, Texas

Hi, Ron.

On my last trip to Cozumel (number eight), I spent my
SIT day (day before flying) across the channel at the
ruins at Tulum and Coba. I likewise was underwhelmed
by the ruins on Cozumel, both El Cedral and the ones
halfway across to Mescalito's.

Anyway, I was impressed. Tulum is a Mayan observatory,
and is on cliffs overlooking the Caribbean. The buildings
are in much better shape, too.

Coba is about 20 miles inland (they can show you how to get
there at Tulum), and has the tallest Mayan pyramids on the
Yucatan. If you're up for it, you can climb up to the top
for an incredible view of the surrounding rain forest.

The entrance to Tulum is built up with gift shops, etc.,
but Coba is very much more pristeen.

We took the ferry across and rented a car for about $50US
for the day. You could do that and get to Chichen-Itza, too,
I guess, but it would be a very long drive.

My $0.02...

/
|~~~~o~o~~o~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|

| o o @==< >==@ / | / / |
| ___ o >==@ ____________/ |________________/ / |
| (_^_) o ******************** / gg...@aton.sps.mot.com ___ < |
| \@/== * Gordon in Austin * / ___/ \ \ |
| ******************** /_____ @ ))) ___/ \_\ |
| Practice safe sectors. \__________\ |______/ >==@ |
| A hard disk has no conscience. \ | @==< |
|________________________________________________\|_______________________GG|
\

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 14:46:27 -0400
From: mikes...@aol.com (MikeS57620)
Subject: More Cozumel Side Trips
Message-ID: <3u15a3$d...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

>On my last trip to Cozumel (number eight), I spent my
<SIT day (day before flying) across the channel at the
>ruins at Tulum and Coba. I likewise was underwhelmed
<by the ruins on Cozumel, both El Cedral and the ones
>halfway across to Mescalito's.

>Anyway, I was impressed. Tulum is a Mayan observatory,
<and is on cliffs overlooking the Caribbean. The buildings
>are in much better shape, too.

<Coba is about 20 miles inland (they can show you how to get
>there at Tulum), and has the tallest Mayan pyramids on the
<Yucatan. If you're up for it, you can climb up to the top
>for an incredible view of the surrounding rain forest.

>The entrance to Tulum is built up with gift shops, etc.,
<but Coba is very much more pristeen.

>We took the ferry across and rented a car for about $50US
>for the day. You could do that and get to Chichen-Itza, too,
>I guess, but it would be a very long drive.

Chichen-Itza is worth the drive. Coba might be taller, but Chichen-Itza
is awesome. It's a long one dayer, but it can be done.

Try Cenote Bar Hopping. Go to Playa & drive to Tulum, take your
snorkeling stuff. Check out the Cenote bars along the road to Tulum.
They all advertise and find the Cenote you prefer and snorkle it. You
won't believe the clarity of the water. After your done snorlkleing,
start drinking and eating. (If you make it to Tulum fine, if not head
back to Playa just before dark.) The places are fun, with a great mix of
eclectic people just like you from all over the world.

One other side trip we haven't done but will next time is the Dos Ojos
trip with fast movin' Zodiacs that explore this large underground cave
system.

Have fun on the mainland and stay away from Cancun and other Gringo
tourist traps. BTW, Tulum is free on Sundays!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 14:12:20 GMT
From: mike@act_travel.win.net (Michael S. Pingrey)
Subject: Old Air Question
Message-ID: <423@act_travel.win.net>

I just returned from Puget Sound, where I dove with an old dive
buddy of mine. He had not been diving in two years, and when I
asked him if he had his bottles charged, he said they had been
full of air for that period of time. I asked him if he was
really going to use "old air," and he replied that "air is air."

Later, at the dive shop where I rented my tanks, they informed
me that it was imperative to keep only about 500 lbs in the
tank, and then recharge it just prior to diving. The operator
said something about "oxygen depletion" over time.

Anyway, our dive went poorly. We had to call off the first
dive after about 5 minutes. My buddy was complaining of a
feeling of claustrophobia, and said that he didn't feel he was
getting enough air from his regulator.

At the time, I just wrote it off as a case of nerves, since he
hadn't been in awhile, but now I'm wondering: could there be
something to this "oxygen depletion," and could that have
caused the problem my buddy experienced? Any thoughts out there?

Thanks, Mike

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 06:42:50 GMT
From: b_b...@primenet.com (Bruce Beckman)
Subject: Re: Old Air Question
Message-ID: <3u2fh2$6...@hang.primenet.com>
Organization: Primenet

mike@act_travel.win.net (Michael S. Pingrey) wrote:

>I just returned from Puget Sound, where I dove with an old dive
>buddy of mine. He had not been diving in two years, and when I
>asked him if he had his bottles charged, he said they had been

[...]

>Anyway, our dive went poorly. We had to call off the first
>dive after about 5 minutes. My buddy was complaining of a
>feeling of claustrophobia, and said that he didn't feel he was
>getting enough air from his regulator.

>At the time, I just wrote it off as a case of nerves, since he
>hadn't been in awhile, but now I'm wondering: could there be
>something to this "oxygen depletion," and could that have
>caused the problem my buddy experienced? Any thoughts out there?

>Thanks, Mike

I also would chalk this up to no recent diving experience. We believe
that the urge to breath comes principally from CO2 levels in the blood
rather than lack of O2. Unless you are relaxed, your breathing will be
inefficient in blowing off CO2, hence the feeling of 'not getting
enough air'. It's possible to breath *air* containing NO oxygen and
you just pass out without ever getting the *out of air* feeling.

-Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 13:33:15 GMT
From: tben...@vnet.ibm.com (Tim Bengtson)
Subject: Re: Old Air Question
Message-ID: <19950714....@vnet.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM San Jose

In article <3u4jlf$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
on 13 Jul 1995 22:09:51 -0400,
Trying2Fly <tryin...@aol.com> writes:

>In article <3u2fh2$6...@hang.primenet.com>, b_b...@primenet.com (Bruce
>Beckman) writes:
>
>> It's possible to breath *air* containing NO oxygen and
>>you just pass out without ever getting the *out of air* feeling.
>>
>>-Bruce
>
>Where do you get your information? Medical school? Saturday morning
>cartoons? I am not pretending to have the answer, but I don't believe you.

It's not too scientific, but from breathing helium out of balloons I can
tell you that it's quite possible to breathe without O2 and not feel out-
of-air. Also, I seem to recall a fatal accident at NASA where someone
entered a fuel tank that had been purged with 100 percent nitrogen. The
victim breathed normally, not knowing he wasn't getting any oxygen, but
quickly passed out and suffocated.

Tim

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1995 17:45:58 GMT

From: sd...@OES.ORST.EDU (Stephen M Dodd)

Subject: Re: Old Air Question
Message-ID: <3u6agm$f...@news.orst.edu>
Organization: Oregon Extension Service

In article <19950714....@vnet.ibm.com>,
Tim Bengtson <tben...@vnet.ibm.com> wrote:
>In article <3u4jlf$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
> on 13 Jul 1995 22:09:51 -0400,
> Trying2Fly <tryin...@aol.com> writes:
>
>>In article <3u2fh2$6...@hang.primenet.com>, b_b...@primenet.com (Bruce
>>Beckman) writes:
>>
>>> It's possible to breath *air* containing NO oxygen and
>>>you just pass out without ever getting the *out of air* feeling.
>>>
>>>-Bruce
>>
>>Where do you get your information? Medical school? Saturday morning
>>cartoons? I am not pretending to have the answer, but I don't believe you.
>
>It's not too scientific, but from breathing helium out of balloons I can
>tell you that it's quite possible to breathe without O2 and not feel out-
>of-air. Also, I seem to recall a fatal accident at NASA where someone
>entered a fuel tank that had been purged with 100 percent nitrogen. The
>victim breathed normally, not knowing he wasn't getting any oxygen, but
>quickly passed out and suffocated.
>
>Tim

This is interesting. While I can't suggest an experiment it does seem
logical that, as we are told, breathing is inspired by carbon dixoide
buildup rather than oxygen lack, that one could be happliy expiring
carbon dioxide without oxygen till he died.

This is a form in some sense related to shallow water blackout.

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 19:00:13 GMT
From: galp...@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com (Steve Galperin)
Subject: Re: Old Air Question
Message-ID: <3u3qft$m...@news.sanders.lockheed.com>
Organization: Lockheed Sanders

Bruce Beckman (b_b...@primenet.com) wrote:
: mike@act_travel.win.net (Michael S. Pingrey) wrote:

: >I just returned from Puget Sound, where I dove with an old dive
: >buddy of mine. He had not been diving in two years, and when I
: >asked him if he had his bottles charged, he said they had been

: [...]

: >Anyway, our dive went poorly. We had to call off the first
: >dive after about 5 minutes. My buddy was complaining of a
: >feeling of claustrophobia, and said that he didn't feel he was
: >getting enough air from his regulator.

: >At the time, I just wrote it off as a case of nerves, since he
: >hadn't been in awhile, but now I'm wondering: could there be
: >something to this "oxygen depletion," and could that have
: >caused the problem my buddy experienced? Any thoughts out there?

: >Thanks, Mike

: I also would chalk this up to no recent diving experience. We believe
: that the urge to breath comes principally from CO2 levels in the blood
: rather than lack of O2. Unless you are relaxed, your breathing will be
: inefficient in blowing off CO2, hence the feeling of 'not getting
: enough air'. It's possible to breath *air* containing NO oxygen and
: you just pass out without ever getting the *out of air* feeling.

: -Bruce

The onset of hypoxia is more insidious than that. At low PPO2 you feel
giddy and have a loss a judgement similar to nitrogen narcosis. But even
if the PPO2 was down to say 15%, by the time your 30 feet down it's
very breathable. If there is less than 15% O2 he would have passed out
on the surface.

Sounds like his wet suit may have been too tight or his reg needed service.
If he was wearing a hood and it was too tight the reaction would be like
you discribed.

Stephen Galperin

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 22:09:51 -0400
From: tryin...@aol.com (Trying2Fly)
Subject: Re: Old Air Question
Message-ID: <3u4jlf$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

In article <3u2fh2$6...@hang.primenet.com>, b_b...@primenet.com (Bruce
Beckman) writes:

> It's possible to breath *air* containing NO oxygen and
>you just pass out without ever getting the *out of air* feeling.
>
>-Bruce

Where do you get your information? Medical school? Saturday morning
cartoons? I am not pretending to have the answer, but I don't believe you.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 21:32:18 GMT
From: Tar...@ltpc.demon.co.uk (Lawrence Tarlow)
Subject: Re: Old Air Question
Message-ID: <19950712....@ltpc.demon.co.uk>

In message <423@act_travel.win.net> Michael S. Pingrey wrote:

As a BS-AC instructor and diver I attend the annual conference
regularly. I recall one incident report when a diver fell unconcious
a few minutes into a dive. It was reported that the air in his (steel)
tank was from the previous season, the fill was "wet" and corrosion
had reduced the O2 content of the air in the tank to below that
required to sustain conciousness (life?). That diver was, I recall,
rescued by his buddy.

There is also a thread on this newsgroup called
steel + water + air = no oxygen? which is also pertinent. Air spaces
in wrecks may have a depleted level of O2 which will have reacted
with the steel. The advice is if you find an air space in a wreck
*keep the regulator in your mouth*

good vis, and safe diving

--
Lawrence Tarlow

------------------------------

End of rec-scuba Digest
******************************

The article backlog is 457296 bytes, and 317 articles.

ADMIN...@ccmail.wcc.com

unread,

Jul 16, 1995, 3:00:00 AM7/16/95

Message undeliverable at this time

id AA09491; Sun, 16 Jul 95 11:17:31 MDT
Received: from stanley.cis.Brown.EDU (stanley.cis.brown.edu [128.148.176.55]) by listserv.brown.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA16338; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:17:29 -0400

Received: from BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU by BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b)

with NJE id 6410 for SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU; Sun, 16 Jul 1995
12:15:57 -0400

Received: from BROWNVM (NJE origin SMTP@BROWNVM) by BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (LMail

V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 5256; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:15:56 -0400

Received: from scifi.maid.com by BROWNVM.brown.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP;

Sun, 16 Jul 95 12:15:37 EDT
Received: (from njs@localhost) by scifi.maid.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA08212;
Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:16:43 -0400
Approved-By: Nick Simicich <n...@SCIFI.EMI.NET>
Message-Id: <1995071616...@scifi.maid.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:16:43 -0400

Reply-To: rec-...@cs.utexas.edu
Sender: Scuba Digest Redistribution <SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
From: Nick Simicich <n...@scifi.emi.net>

Subject: rec-scuba Digest V4 #618

To: Multiple recipients of list SCUBA-D <SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>

rec-scuba Digest Sun, 16 Jul 95 Volume 4 : Issue 618

Today's Topics:
!!ANYONE-GOOD KEYS WRECK SITES? [4]
Belize [9]
Caribbean Explorer
Cooking in your Drysuit? [2]
Costa Rica dive info? [3]
Deafness, Pain in ears.
Diving Death in Guam
German divers?
Hot Trip Idea [2]
Information about Roatan and Belize
Lifestyle Sports Magazine ISO contributions [3]
Need names Japanese female divers [2]
Newbie question - Equalizing [6]
Only weekend fivers in Illinois? [2]
regulators
S.P.E.C. system on ScubaPro first stages [4]
scuba show on Discovery Channel [3]
Sunshine Coast, B.C. trip - spots available
time limit on open water certification [3]
WTB Nitrox compressor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 16:54:22
From: sha...@ufcc.ufl.edu (Stephen Joseph Hardy, II)
Subject: Deafness, Pain in ears.
Message-ID: <shardy.5...@ufcc.ufl.edu>
Organization: University of Florida

Folks:

I would like to keep this discussion alive about pain in the ears
while diving. I am profoundly deaf in both ears, my mother, while carrying me
contacted German Measles and thats how I became deaf since birth. I did
some time experienced pain because of infection in the ear. I am now taking
antibotics (PCE) 500mg twice a day for 10 days.
Some people asked how did you get the ear infection? Is it from
diving? Mostly, I get an ear infection from my ear molds, as being in Florida,
it's hot and inside my ear canal gets wet from mositure then it gets infected.
Another time I do get infection from swimming in pools.

I would appreciate if there is a ENT (Ear, Nose, and Throat) phyiscians on the
net to share some information diving and deafness.

Stephen Joseph Hardy, II
University of Florida

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 16:57:11
From: deep...@nbnet.nb.ca (Matt Kelly)
Subject: Re: Newbie question - Equalizing
Message-ID: <deepspan.1...@nbnet.nb.ca>
Organization: NB*Net

>Tips from a pro on equalizing:
>
>1. Take normal doses of pseudophed 24-hours before you dive, and take
> while you are diving. This will loosen up the stuff in your ears.
>
>2. When clearing your ears underwater, try and relax, go down slow,
> clear on every breath, and try a swallowing action while pushing
> the air into your ears.

Mind me butting in here, but if this person is having trouble equalizing his
ears, he shouldn't be iving at all. If he takes the medicine, and is fine,
goes down to say 45', then his medicine wears off, whats he going to do? He
can't stay doen forever, and if his ears won't clear, then he'll get reverse
air squeeze on the way up.

I really don't mean to second guess you, especially seeing how I only took
my first dive last Monday, but what I said is true. You don't even have to be
a diver to now this, no offence.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 17:42:57 GMT
From: de...@olsen.ch (Devon Bowen)
Subject: Re: Newbie question - Equalizing
Message-ID: <DBpvv...@olsen.ch>
Organization: Olsen & Associates AG, Zurich, Switzerland

In article <deepspan.1...@nbnet.nb.ca>, deep...@nbnet.nb.ca (Matt Kelly) writes:
> Mind me butting in here, but if this person is having trouble equalizing
> his ears, he shouldn't be iving at all.

If you define "shouldn't" as "in my opinion they shouldn't" then I don't have
a problem with that. If you define it as "they don't have free will to make
a choice for themselves" then I have an enormous problem with that.

> If he takes the medicine, and is fine,
> goes down to say 45', then his medicine wears off, whats he going to do? He
> can't stay doen forever, and if his ears won't clear, then he'll get reverse
> air squeeze on the way up.

Yep. And if your reg freezes up, you could die. So you shouldn't be diving?

Devon

------------------------------

Date: 16 Jul 1995 13:49:21 GMT
From: "John E. Rogers" <jro...@tccn.com>
Subject: Re: Newbie question - Equalizing
Message-ID: <3ub5d1$h...@jeeves.tccn.com>
Organization: Twin Cities Computer Network

As a friend of mine once said, "So why don't we all just stay home and
hide in our bedrooms where we are safe".... The result being a long and
useless life of sitting doing nothing in our bedrooms.

Each person must weigh the benefits against the risks of the activities
they engage in and come to their own decision. As for Equalizing, many
divers have a problem to some degree, and the worse case scenario
(reverse block with blown eardrums) is not only one of the least of the
risks associated with diving, but is extremely rare when compared to the
number of divers and dives made.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 17:01:26
From: deep...@nbnet.nb.ca (Matt Kelly)
Subject: Re: Newbie question - Equalizing
Message-ID: <deepspan.1...@nbnet.nb.ca>
Organization: NB*Net

>You will find that there is a muscle for opening the tube to each ear.
>I can't tell you how to operate that muscle anymore than I could tell
>you how to lift your arm, but, if you wiggle your jaw, or yawn, you
>will (eventually) hear a 'clicking' sound. That is what you are after.
>You have to practice this on the surface, both to get used to just what
>you need to do, and to streangthen the muscle.
>
>Eventually you will be able to open the tube without all that blowing and
>stuff. (it's safer if you can avoid that anyway)
>
>Practice practice practice.

That is a good technique for people with strong Eustation <sp??> tubes [the
ones between your ears and throat], but for beginner divers, or divers who
have trouble equalizing, a simple way to clear is to plug your nose [pinch it
with your fingers, you mask should allow this], and close you mouth, and blow.
This will fill up the air space in your mouth, then, the rest of the air will
be forced into any opening. In this case you eustation tubes. The tubes are
muscles, and, like you said, the more you do it, the easier it'll get.

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1995 15:37:56 GMT
From: ar...@magellan.Colorado.EDU (Jim Arnow)
Subject: Re: Newbie question - Equalizing
Message-ID: <3u630k$o...@CUBoulder.Colorado.EDU>
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

As the original poster on this thread, I wanted to update my situation.

First, I want to thank all the people who sent me email with their
experiences. It's nice to know that I'm not alone with my difficulties.
(I've also read that even Cousteau has difficulties equalizing.)

By far the most encouraging comment I have gotten is that the first few
feet are the hardest due to the quck change in volume. This has given
me the confidence to practice in the pool (down to 10') and know that
what I'm learning will transfer to the open water.

I have been through four pool sessions now and find that the best way
for me to equalize my ears is to close my nose with my hand while
pressing slightly against my regulator. This allows me to press my
tongue into the regulator so when I blow gently, I can fill my mouth
completely with air. The other important thing for me was to realize
exactly what it means to stay ahead of the pressure. Before I even
drop my head into the water, I use the Valsalva once so that as I go
under, I don't ever feel any pressure building up.

As for medication, I have been using a 4-6 hour generic Sudafed clone,
but, after realizing the possible effects of it wearing off under water,
I am going to try my last class without it. Since, after practicing, I
have little difficulty clearing my ears on the surface, I think I should
be fine without relying on medication.

For anyone who is interested, there is a fairly good overview article in
Dive Training magazine, from last March (I think) on equalizing.

Finally, a question: In the Dive Training article, they mention the
Fenzel(?) method of clearing using the toungue as a piston. The
description they give is rather sketchy. I realize that most of these
techniques are learned by trial and error, but can anyone give any hints
as to how this is done?

Thanks for all the help,

Jim Arnow
ar...@colorado.edu
--
Jim Arnow
ar...@colorado.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 17:06:19
From: deep...@nbnet.nb.ca (Matt Kelly)
Subject: Re: Newbie question - Equalizing
Message-ID: <deepspan.1...@nbnet.nb.ca>
Organization: NB*Net

>Have to agree with jean, after practice the swallowing technique is much
>easier. from what I understand it is very hard on your ears to eq at the
>surface(they are already =). When I got my first C-card I was worried,
>but I found that it is easier to = at 5 or six feet than on the surface,
>you might tring taking Non-Drowsy Sudafed before diving-make sure it will
>last longer than you plan on blowing bubbles. If all else fails see a ENT
>that specilizes in diving.

I'm starting to feel like an intruder, but what I'm saying I was told by an
ACUC diving instructor, who is also an RN. It's dangerous to have to rely on
drug to keep your eustation tubes clear. If you are under, and the medicine
wears off, or if the block becomes worse, you're in deep trouble, pardon the
pun. Also, if you are having trouble equalizing, but can [without medicine],
try holding your nose clamped, and with every exhale [during your decent]
block you mouth and give a quick, hard blow into you mouth, not letting any
air out. This will force the air into your eustation tubes. After dong this
for a little while, the muscles around the tubes will build tone, and clearing
your ears will become easier.

Hope this helps.

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 21:10:21 GMT
From: na...@nudibranch.asd.sgi.com (Chuck Narad)
Subject: Re: Caribbean Explorer
Message-ID: <3u1dnt$s...@fido.asd.sgi.com>

Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Mountain View, CA

In article <3tkfbh$o...@news1.delphi.com>, jbi...@BIX.com writes:
>
>
> Once again, let me re-emphasize that the M.V. Carribean Explorer has a most
> horrendous safety record, and, IMHO, should be avoided like the plague!
>
> There were a series of accidents during 1994 in which there were at least 3
> fatalities. One being one of their own dive master's (a woman who was
> decapitated when the captain engaged the
> propellors while she was in the water). I personally witnessed the "rescue"
> of a drowned woman and her buddy while on Saba last June (I was not diving
> with the MVCE).
>
> Jordan.

I dove on the caribbean explorer in january 1994. they were a well-run
outfit, and after the dive master fatality they had changed proceedures
to ensure that they had closer track of all individuals in the water.
(that accident was in 1993, by the way.)

about the only safety issue I had with the boat was that their policy
on drinking was that everyone was an adult and could make their own
decisions; as a result, there was a pair of divers from the back woods
of W. Virginia that slammed down a couple of beers between every dive,
and frankly I didn't want *my* trip spoiled by having to go recover
a body or two.

I'd like to hear more details about the accident that grounded the
boat; they did have one dive sight that was very close to a pinnacle
that required anchors on both ends and was quite a hairy situation
for the captain to get settled into. does anyone know about the
location of the accident, the surface conditions, etc?

what are the details of the deaths in june? can you repost a report
on that, and also point out what responsibility the boat had for
the circumstances? not knowing the circumstances, it is not obvious
that the C.E. was responsible for them, and I'd hate to see the
boat bashed because of something that they were not responsible
for. I've been on several live-aboards, and the C.E. seemed at
least as well run as most of the others.

thanks in advance for the info,
chuck/

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 19:44:00 +0200
From: dan...@borgmann.ping.de (Daniel Borgmann)
Subject: German divers?
Message-ID: <5phgY...@borgmann.ping.de>

Hi all?

Are there any germany-speaking divers? Please answer.

thanx.
Daniel
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
e-Mail: Internet *dan...@borgmann.ping.de* / Location: *Dortmund, Germany*
FIDONET *2:2444/5001.24* /
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
## CrossPoint v3.02 ##

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 22:59:19 GMT
From: je...@hondo.cyberverse.com (Someone)
Subject: regulators
Message-ID: <3u1k47$2...@donatello.leonardo.net>
Organization: Leonardo Internet

I'm new to diving, and about to buy my first regulator. If money is more
or less not much of an object (I'm willing to spend the money if it's
worth it), can someone recommend a good regulator to me? Obviously, as a
beginner, I don't need some specialized one, but also I do not want the
cheapest, beginner-lasts-a-year, regulator. If it helps much, the
majority of my diving (at least for the first year or so) will be under
60 feet, in Southern California. Thanks for the responses, please reply
via e-mail :)
Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 18:04:17 est
From: pat...@stoked.com (Patrick Riley)
Subject: Lifestyle Sports Magazine ISO contributions
Message-ID: <patrick.1...@stoked.com>
Organization: Blue Water Media (http://www.niagara.com/stoked)

STOKED!, a lifestyle sports online magazine set to premiere in the fall, is
seeking contributions from freelance writers and photographers for both
features and departments. We will cover all types of these sports (hence the
x-posting), from all angles, and we're very interested in differing ideas and
viewpoints. We also have a reader-supported department called "Been There,
Done That," a travel column which will highlight one or two experiences and
spots a month. Writer's guidelines, which also cover our photography needs,
are availble upon request.

We are a professional market, open to unpublished writers and photographers,
but very particular about the quality of our content. Please keep that in
mind when submitting.

Keep stoked!

Patrick Riley
---------------------------------------------------------
* Patrick Riley *
* STOKED! The World's #1 Lifestyle Sports 'Zine *
* http://www.niagara.com/stoked *
---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 19:28:29 GMT
From: MORTOK <>
Subject: Re: Lifestyle Sports Magazine ISO contributions
Message-ID: <DBq0r...@ranger.daytonoh.attgis.com>
Organization: AT&T Global Information Solutions

==========Patrick Riley, 7/12/95==========
STOKED!, a lifestyle sports online magazine set to premiere in the fall, is
seeking contributions from freelance writers and photographers for both
features and departments. We will cover all types of these sports (hence the

x-posting), from all angles, and we're very interested in differing ideas and

viewpoints. We also have a reader-supported department called "Been There,
Done That," a travel column which will highlight one or two experiences and
spots a month. Writer's guidelines, which also cover our photography needs,
are availble upon request.

We are a professional market, open to unpublished writers and photographers,
but very particular about the quality of our content. Please keep that in
mind when submitting.

Keep stoked!

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 15:15:09 GMT
From: Michael Peluso <MPeluso_...@isdlink1.ess.harris.com>
Subject: Re: Lifestyle Sports Magazine ISO contributions
Message-ID: <3u3d9t$1...@su102w.ess.harris.com>

Organization: Harris Electronic System Sector

pat...@stoked.com (Patrick Riley) wrote:
>
> STOKED!, a lifestyle sports online magazine set to premiere in the fall, is
> seeking contributions from freelance writers and photographers for both
> features and departments.
> Keep stoked!
>

Have lots of underwater video from around the carribean, contact me
at MVPi...@aol.com, let me know how we can hook up.

MVP

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 23:17:57 GMT
From: j...@tc.fluke.COM (Jill Hatch)
Subject: Belize
Message-ID: <DBMM2...@tc.fluke.COM>
Organization: Fluke Corporation, Everett, WA

Thank you to everyone who responded to my request for info
on Belize. I think we have decided that we should stay
around Turneffe Island. The diving seems to be better in
that area. We figured that the higher prices would be worth
it because we would end up paying extra at the other places
for the transportation to the good dive sites. Anyway, now
what I would like to know is if any of you out there have
ever stayed at either the Turneffe Island resort or at
Lighthouse Reef Resort? Any info at all would be wonderful.
I've heard that there isn't much to do there besides diving.
Is this true? I'm trying to keep the non-divers in mind on
this trip as well. Thanks in advance. Jill Hatch

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 1995 00:37:48 GMT
From: Dave Clyburn <dcly...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: Belize
Message-ID: <3u72ks$m...@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
Organization: Computing and Network Services, U of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada

My friend Kate and I have made two trips to Blackbird Caye Resort,
Turneffe. We loved the place! All of these places are small, isolated
dive lodges with few distractions.

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 1995 13:47:49 GMT
From: Pete Schaefer <pet...@atc.ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Belize
Message-ID: <3u8gu5$m...@news.ameritel.net>
Organization: Educational Software Developers

Am planning a fall trip to the same area. Can you give me any details
about Blackbird Caye? Any suggestions or advisories would be greatly
appreciated.

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 1995 00:26:57 GMT
From: Dave Clyburn <dcly...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: Belize
Message-ID: <3u720h$m...@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
Organization: Computing and Network Services, U of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada

My friend Kate and I have stayed at Blackbird Caye,Turneffe, twice. We
loved it! A very friendly staff and great diving. All of these places
are isolated dive lodges with little to do but dive, snorkel, and enjoy
nature.

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 1995 00:27:16 GMT
From: Dave Clyburn <dcly...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: Belize
Message-ID: <3u7214$m...@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
Organization: Computing and Network Services, U of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 1995 00:29:41 GMT
From: Dave Clyburn <dcly...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: Belize
Message-ID: <3u725l$m...@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
Organization: Computing and Network Services, U of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 1995 00:30:25 GMT
From: Dave Clyburn <dcly...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: Belize
Message-ID: <3u7271$m...@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
Organization: Computing and Network Services, U of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 1995 00:31:16 GMT
From: Dave Clyburn <dcly...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: Belize
Message-ID: <3u728k$m...@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
Organization: Computing and Network Services, U of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1995 20:17:03 GMT
From: oh...@ix.netcom.com (Michael O'Hare )
Subject: Belize
Message-ID: <3u6jbv$o...@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom

I have noted with great interest the discusions of Ambergis Caye &
Turneffe. It appears Ambergis Caye is the favorite for diving &
comfort. Lately, however, a few mentioned Turneffe as the "best
choice". Anyone with recent personal experience, please reply. Also,
very interested in the travel agency you used, or if arranged by
yourself - how to do the same.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 23:24:25 GMT
From: an...@speedy.creativesales.com (Anker Berg-Sonne)
Subject: Only weekend fivers in Illinois?
Message-ID: <3u1lh5$q...@caesar.ultra.net>
Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc.

I'll be in Chicago next week from Tuesday through Saturday. I had
hoped I could go out diving every day, but apparantly the dive
charters only go out weekends! Here in New England I can get on a boat
weekdays, What gives?

Does anybody know of anybody going out next week. I'll drive anywhere
between northern Wisconsin and Detroit!

Help!

Anker

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 23:57:46 -0400
From: capt...@aol.com (CaptnDale)
Subject: Re: Only weekend fivers in Illinois?
Message-ID: <3u4pvq$f...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

Anker,
We can take you out on Wednesday evening if you want. If we have at least
four divers we will go out any day, (and do). We operate the dive boat,
Enterprise, out of Waukegan. It is a 42 foot steel boat, with full safety
gear. A real seaworthy Great Lakes trawler. Call Enterprise Marine, Inc
at (708)520-4689.

Good diving,
Dale

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jul 1995 23:34:40 GMT
From: Len Tillim <len.t...@trw.com>
Subject: WTB Nitrox compressor
Message-ID: <3u1m6h$f...@ns1.nba.TRW.COM>
Organization: TRW Space & Electronics Group, Redondo Beach, CA

Looking for a small compressor capable of pumping oil-free air. I
will be blending various Nitrox mixes with it on my boat. The preferred
brand is RIX. Looking for one in the 4CFM range. Anything out there?

Len Tillim
Phone (310) 539-4827

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 00:04:30 GMT
From: an...@speedy.creativesales.com (Anker Berg-Sonne)
Subject: Re: Cooking in your Drysuit?
Message-ID: <3u1ns9$q...@caesar.ultra.net>
Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc.

My drysuit has a woven nylon outer surface which allows me to cool off
by jumping in the water as soon as I have donned the drysuit and had a
buddy zipper it shut. My wet head and hands plus the evaporation off
the surface of the suit makes donning the rest of the equipment a
breeze.

This doesn't work on boat dives!

Anker

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 22:59:21 GMT
From: galp...@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com (Steve Galperin)
Subject: Re: Cooking in your Drysuit?
Message-ID: <3u48g9$m...@news.sanders.lockheed.com>
Organization: Lockheed Sanders

Anker Berg-Sonne (an...@speedy.ultranet.com) wrote:
: My drysuit has a woven nylon outer surface which allows me to cool off
: by jumping in the water as soon as I have donned the drysuit and had a
: buddy zipper it shut. My wet head and hands plus the evaporation off
: the surface of the suit makes donning the rest of the equipment a
: breeze.

: This doesn't work on boat dives!

: Anker

Sure it does, just have your buddy dump a bucket of water over your head.
It feels great and gives a real thrill to the wet suit divers.

Stephen Galperin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 00:11:14 GMT
From: kai...@ax.ibase.org.br (Sergio Emanuel Kaiser)
Subject: Information about Roatan and Belize
Message-ID: <DBMrz...@ax.ibase.org.br>
Organization: Rede APC -- Nodo AlterNex

Does anybody know about any interesting 5-day diving package to Roatan
or Belize for not more than US$400.00 per person, leaving from Miami
during the 2nd half of August?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 00:18:53 GMT
From: "Ray McAllister, McAllister Marine" <mcal...@emi.net>
Subject: scuba show on Discovery Channel
Message-ID: <DBMov...@emi.net>
Organization: The EmiNet Domain, FL (407)731-0291

Sorry to prick your bubble. The Stoneman series panders to all
the cliches that exist. Always in danger from sharks. All alone
and in trouble (what the hell are the cameraman and lighting
people doing at this time?) All alone (same question.
Everything is Stoneman, Stoneeman, Stoneman. There is
enough exciting and beautiful and electrifing in the ocean
withoutthe hokum. Also forget "SeaQuest". Its worse! IMNSHO

Ray McAllister, Diving Dinosaur mcal...@gate.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 15:51:27 GMT
From: gre...@inforamp.net ()
Subject: Re: scuba show on Discovery Channel
Message-ID: <3u35aq$e...@inforamp.net>
Organization: InfoRamp Inc., Toronto, Ontario (416) 363-9100

"Ray McAllister, McAllister Marine" <mcal...@emi.net> wrote:

>Sorry to prick your bubble. The Stoneman series panders to all
>the cliches that exist. Always in danger from sharks. All alone
>and in trouble (what the hell are the cameraman and lighting
>people doing at this time?) All alone (same question.
> Everything is Stoneman, Stoneeman, Stoneman. There is
>enough exciting and beautiful and electrifing in the ocean
>withoutthe hokum. Also forget "SeaQuest". Its worse! IMNSHO

>Ray McAllister, Diving Dinosaur mcal...@gate.net
Hey Ray! Noticed you shortened your signoff. <g>
Didn't have anything to do with my return to your SeaQuest posting is
it? <G>
Greg

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 19:03:34 GMT
From: galp...@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com (Steve Galperin)
Subject: Re: scuba show on Discovery Channel
Message-ID: <3u3qm6$m...@news.sanders.lockheed.com>
Organization: Lockheed Sanders

Ray McAllister, McAllister Marine (mcal...@emi.net) wrote:
: Sorry to prick your bubble. The Stoneman series panders to all
: the cliches that exist. Always in danger from sharks. All alone
: and in trouble (what the hell are the cameraman and lighting
: people doing at this time?) All alone (same question.
: Everything is Stoneman, Stoneeman, Stoneman. There is
: enough exciting and beautiful and electrifing in the ocean
: withoutthe hokum. Also forget "SeaQuest". Its worse! IMNSHO

: Ray McAllister, Diving Dinosaur mcal...@gate.net

I got a real kick out of the wreck dive Stoneman did, 180 feet, pentration
and on a single 80. Real good example of how not to wreck dive.

Stephen Galperin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 00:20:14 GMT
From: wr...@kuentos.guam.net (Ward L. Reed)
Subject: Diving Death in Guam
Message-ID: <1995Jul13.0...@kuentos.guam.net>
Organization: Kuentos Communications Inc.

It seems that I only post to this group when I have bad news, and
I have another fatality to report. On Sunday, July 2, a 19 year old
female drowned off the Northeast coast of Guam after completeing a beach
dive.
Details are unclear, but she had been diving with a group, which
included 3 PADI divemasters. There was a Hazardous Surf Warning in
effect, there may have been a small craft warning as well. They
successfully completed the dive, and were trying to get back inside the
reef. She was swept off the reef, along with her dive buddy. This is
where the story is unclear. Either she simply drowned, or was swept
under the reef, and fouled along an overhang. In any event, another
diver in the group blew his whistle and waved his fin to get the
attention of people on shore, who got help. The dive buddy was plucked
from the water by a Navy helicopter, the body of the girl was recover a
few hours later.
Lessons to be learned. Surf is dangerous. They had no business
trying to dive where they were. The NE coast of Guam is always rough,
especially so when the surf is generally rough. Respect the ocean, it is
bigger than you are.
--
******************************************************************
"They can always hurt you more."
The Fat Man
House of God, circa 1974

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 00:27:19 GMT
From: silv...@holly.colostate.edu
Subject: time limit on open water certification
Message-ID: <3u1p97$12...@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
Organization: csu

Could someone tell me for sure how much time I have from completing my
classroom and pool testing to open water certification before I have to take it
again? I have one PADI telling me 6 mo. and I have another telling me that I
have up to 1 yr. Email me or answer on the rec.scuba.

Thanks,
Silver

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1995 20:10:08 -0500
From: jwh...@ansel.intersource.com (Jim Whitt)
Subject: Re: time limit on open water certification
Message-ID: <3u74hg$d...@ansel.intersource.com>
Organization: none

In article <3u1p97$12...@yuma.acns.colostate.edu>,
<silv...@holly.colostate.edu> wrote:
> Could someone tell me for sure how much time I have from completing my
>classroom and pool testing to open water certification before I have to take it
>again? I have one PADI telling me 6 mo. and I have another telling me that I
>have up to 1 yr. Email me or answer on the rec.scuba.
>
> Thanks,
> Silver

My PADI C-Card is good for life. I dive maybe three or four
times a year, so do a yearly refresher course. No advanced certs or
specializations. As far as I know, there is no additional REQUIRED
certification. Also, it is a good idea to do your initial dives through
your dive shop on group trips until you are confident to schedule your
own exotic trips.

Enjoy Yourself,
Jim Whitt

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 01:10:08 GMT
From: jim....@n8sbridge.com (Jim Whitt)
Subject: Re: time limit on open water certification
Message-ID: <1174037149-...@n8sbridge.com>
Organization: Knight's Bridge BBS (512)837-4617

From: jwh...@ansel.intersource.com (Jim Whitt)
Subject: Re: time limit on open water certification

In article <3u1p97$12...@yuma.acns.colostate.edu>,
<silv...@holly.colostate.edu> wrote:
> Could someone tell me for sure how much time I have from completing my
>classroom and pool testing to open water certification before I have to take i
t
>again? I have one PADI telling me 6 mo. and I have another telling me that I

>have up to 1 yr. Email me or answer on the rec.scuba.
>
> Thanks,
> Silver

Enjoy Yourself,
Jim Whitt

---------------------------------------------
* Processed by ViaUUCP! v1.00 for WILDCAT! *
---------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 01:09:01 GMT
From: <dav...@aa.net>
Subject: Costa Rica dive info?
Message-ID: <3u1rnd$8...@big.aa.net>
Organization: Alternate Access Inc.

Anybody have suggestions of where to dive (or where not to dive) in and
around Costa Rica? Any info (locations, operators, prices, dive
experiences) would be appreciated. Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 18:34:38 GMT
From: Jim Peters <ji...@webventures.com>
Subject: Re: Costa Rica dive info?
Message-ID: <3u3ovu$14...@firehose.mindspring.com>
Organization: Web Ventures

Do a search on "costa rica" in DIVE DESTINATIONS.em
at http://www.atonet/dive/ There are several pkgs and background
info pages...

Regards,
Jim

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 16:52:25 GMT
From: john nash <jna...@worldbank.org@internet>
Subject: Re: Costa Rica dive info?
Message-ID: <3u3j09$1...@minerva.worldbank.org>

Organization: The World Bank Group

<dav...@aa.net> wrote:
>
> Anybody have suggestions of where to dive (or where not to dive) in and
> around Costa Rica? Any info (locations, operators, prices, dive
> experiences) would be appreciated. Thanks.
>
> Don't go to PLaya Tambor. The viz is awful and the dive operator is
bad.

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 01:47:08 GMT
From: jam...@oz.net (Jammer)
Subject: Sunshine Coast, B.C. trip - spots available
Message-ID: <jammer-1207...@harwood.oz.net>
Organization: Starfleet HQ

For PNW and BC divers: We're organizing a dive trip to the beautiful
Sechelt area of British Columbia, August 10-13. This is our fifth trip to
our favorite place. Accommodations are in fully-equipped housekeeping
cabins at Lowe's Resort, on the waterfront in Pender Harbour. Diving is
from a comfortable 45' boat with heated cabin. The diving offers
something for everyone, from the novice to the advanced diver. Dives may
include deep walls with huge cloud sponges and red gorgonian coral;
shallow reefs alive with invertebrate life; and the wreck of the Chuciere,
a 366-foot Canadian destroyer escort sunk as an artificial reef in 1992.
Trip price is $300 and includes three nights accommodations, three days of
two-tank diving, all airfills, and lunch on diving days.

Note: this is not a commercial venture, just a dive club thing.

For more info, email to jam...@oz.net.

-------------------
"huh?"
-Jammer, 1993
-------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 01:56:32 GMT
From: schi...@panix.com (schiller)
Subject: Need names Japanese female divers
Message-ID: <3u1k1i$j...@news.panix.com>
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC

For a TV project, I need the name(s) of any active Japanese female
scuba diver(s) or underwater photographer. Anyone know any?
Thanks!

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 15:34:59 -0400
From: az...@aol.com (AZDav)
Subject: Re: Need names Japanese female divers
Message-ID: <3u3sh3$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

Eugenie Clark (of shark fame) is 1/2 Japanese I believe. There was an
article on her/sharks in National Geographic within the last 6 months.

AZDav

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 02:56:40 GMT
From: docd...@enet.net
Subject: !!ANYONE-GOOD KEYS WRECK SITES?
Message-ID: <3u2218$f...@maple.enet.net>
Organization: Evergreen Communications, Phoenix, Arizona

I'm planning an October trip to south Forida. Does anyone have info for me on great Keys dive sites, hotels and operators. My
specific interests on this trip are wrecks above 130 ft. If you have any recommendations on literature about the history of the wrecks
that would be appreciated.
Accomodations <$150/night
Private boat with guide.

docdiver

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 15:21:17 GMT
From: Michael Peluso <MPeluso_...@isdlink1.ess.harris.com>
Subject: Re: !!ANYONE-GOOD KEYS WRECK SITES?
Message-ID: <3u3dld$2...@su102w.ess.harris.com>

Organization: Harris Electronic System Sector

docd...@enet.net wrote:
>
> I'm planning an October trip to south Forida. Does anyone have info for me on great Keys dive sites, hotels and operators. My
> specific interests on this trip are wrecks above 130 ft. If you have any recommendations on literature about the history of the wrecks
> that would be appreciated.
> Accomodations <$150/night
> Private boat with guide.
>
> docdiver
>

The Duane and the Eagle are nice wrecks in Key Largo. One is 240ft
long, the other is 325ft. Both are in deep water, one is upright,
one is on its side. One is a freighter, one is a Coast Guard cutter,
keep forgetting which is which.

MVP

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 22:08:16 -0500
From: Wally Barnes <wall...@delphi.com>
Subject: Re: !!ANYONE-GOOD KEYS WRECK SITES?
Message-ID: <R7Fi4o4....@delphi.com>

Organization: Delphi (in...@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)

get some info by browsing into http://www.dive.com/naui_miami

Wally Barnes
..
..
..

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 11:04:23 GMT
From: Char...@cris.com (Charles McCarthy)
Subject: Re: !!ANYONE-GOOD KEYS WRECK SITES?
Message-ID: <3u2ujn$6...@warp.cris.com>
Organization: Concentric Internet Services

docd...@enet.net wrote:
: I'm planning an October trip to south Forida. Does anyone have info for me on great Keys dive sites, hotels and operators. My
: specific interests on this trip are wrecks above 130 ft. If you have any recommendations on literature about the history of the wrecks
: that would be appreciated.
: Accomodations <$150/night
: Private boat with guide.
:
: docdiver

Doc, Try Hawks Cay Resort on Duck Key, mile 61. The Abyss Pro Dive shop on
the premises can put you on many great, and less heavily dived mid-keys
spots including the Thunderbolt. Mike and Elizabeths 6 pack boat, The Sea
Fan is good and they are super people. Hawk's Cay has a lot to offer when
your not diving. 305-743-7000. Have a great trip. Charles McCarthy

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 03:16:47 GMT
From: "Russell J. Nauta" <rjn...@csn.net>
Subject: Hot Trip Idea
Message-ID: <3u236v$2...@news-2a.csn.net>
Organization: Adventure Tour Directory

Space has come available for a 7 day live-aboard trip out of Fort
Lauderdale on the 23 of July, 1995. The trip is aboard the Good Time
Diver. Its a small but very nice boat that gives alot of freedom. This is
a planned dolphin/shark trip and should be a great trip. The normal cost
was $795.00 but now the remaining space is only $500,00. Give them a call
at 1.800.741.1009.

Russ Nauta

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 03:17:21 GMT
From: "Russell J. Nauta" <rjn...@csn.net>
Subject: Hot Trip Idea
Message-ID: <3u2381$2...@news-2a.csn.net>
Organization: Adventure Tour Directory

Russ Nauta

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 03:37:07 GMT
From: rmo...@u.washington.edu (Robert Morse)
Subject: S.P.E.C. system on ScubaPro first stages
Message-ID: <3u24d3$9...@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
Organization: University of Washington

Hello,

I've decided to get a MK-15 first stage, and I see that there is an
optional SPEC system which allows for better sealing of the first stage
against corrosion and silt, and it also helps to prevent "internal
first stage icing around the piston" (95 catalog). It only costs $13,
so my question is what (if any) are the disadvantges of having the SPEC
system installed on my first stage?

Thanks in Advance,

Robert
rmo...@u.washington.edu

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 1995 03:24:04 GMT
From: George Lewbel <gle...@sensemedia.net>
Subject: Re: S.P.E.C. system on ScubaPro first stages
Message-ID: <3u7cck$5...@Sequoia.picosof.com>
Organization: The SenseMedia Network News - http://sensemedia.net/news - in...@sensemedia.net - smn

rmo...@u.washington.edu (Robert Morse) wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I've decided to get a MK-15 first stage, and I see that there is an
>optional SPEC system which allows for better sealing of the first stage
>against corrosion and silt, and it also helps to prevent "internal
>first stage icing around the piston" (95 catalog). It only costs $13,
>so my question is what (if any) are the disadvantges of having the SPEC
>system installed on my first stage?
>
>Thanks in Advance,
>
>Robert
>rmo...@u.washington.edu

The SPEC system creates a gooey mess in your first stage that leaks
silicone grease all over the rest of the gear in your bag. The "system"
is a tube of food-grade silicone and a nozzle to squeeze it though the
little holes around the piston cavity of your first stage. I'd suggest
that you don't do it unless you need arctic protection. I've used the
silicone system in several Scubapro regs in freezing and non-freezing
conditions. When the weather warms up the more fluid components of the
goop ooze out the little holes in your first stage. A partial cure is
to put a bicycle inner tube cut section over the holes. I've also
noticed that the silicone grease forms pockets within the first stage
that retain salt water and don't rinse well. I saw more surface pitting
and corrosion in SPEC "protected" firsts than in those that were
unprotected, even though both kinds were soaked properly in fresh water
after diving. Other than those two little items, no disadvantages...
Best regards.-- George Lewbel

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 14:15:55 GMT
From: an...@speedy.creativesales.com (Anker Berg-Sonne)
Subject: Re: S.P.E.C. system on ScubaPro first stages
Message-ID: <3u8ig0$r...@caesar.ultra.net>
Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc.

George Lewbel <gle...@sensemedia.net> wrote:

<snip>
>goop ooze out the little holes in your first stage. A partial cure is
>to put a bicycle inner tube cut section over the holes. I've also
<snip>
>Best regards.-- George Lewbel

Very, very, VERY important! Don't EVER dive with the holes covered by
the section of inner tube! The holes are there to ensure that one side
of the piston is at ambient pressure. The inner tube section will
prevent that from happening and cause your first stage to fail!

Anker

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 21:51:59 GMT
From: ni...@macro.pp.se (Nils Mollerstrom)
Subject: Re: S.P.E.C. system on ScubaPro first stages
Message-ID: <3u44hv$b...@mn5.swip.net>
Organization: -

In article <3u24d3$9...@nntp4.u.washington.edu>, rmo...@u.washington.edu (Robert Morse) says:
>
>Hello,
>
>I've decided to get a MK-15 first stage, and I see that there is an
>optional SPEC system which allows for better sealing of the first stage
>against corrosion and silt, and it also helps to prevent "internal
>first stage icing around the piston" (95 catalog). It only costs $13,
>so my question is what (if any) are the disadvantges of having the SPEC
>system installed on my first stage?
>
>Thanks in Advance,
>
>Robert
>rmo...@u.washington.edu

I'm not sure what you mean by SPEC. But if it's this tiny little
rubber of some kind that you attach on your 1st stage I have some
experience.

Disadvantage 1.
It's easy to damage. Put it in a divebag and oops, you've got a rip.
If you filled it with any fluid to prevent iceing it will smear all
your gear. Some choose to fill it with whiskey, (to enjoy after dive),
but no one will dive with a guy who('s gear) smells of rye...

Of course all ice preventing function will be gone as well.

Disadvantage 2.
Some choose to not fill it. So if you go deep enough it will only get
compressed so much. At a certain depth ambient pressure won't be reaching
through to stage one, and you will be getting less air. If any. In my
experience about 60 ft is the limit with my gear.

Other than that, I think it's a rather cheap way to make certain that
your 1st stage won't freeze.

However, there is this little thing called 2nd stage, or mouthpiece
if you will.

Freezing in this is believed to have caused or at least contributed to
some accidents in Sweden. The result of freezing in 2nd stage is often
a "blowout". This may surprise the diver, and the rich airflow may cause
the diver to loose his mask. Water temperature close to freezingpoint
in the divers face at this point is enough to shock anyone. It feels like
getting your face kicked in by a horse. Anyway, at this point you have a
situation. No gear, no device will help you. The only thing that can get
you out of this situation is previous training, in icecold water that is,
and a buddy to pilot you to the surface. Of course it helps if he can find
your mask and buddybreathe with you.

Disadvantage 3
Some think they can leave training out if they just buy more equip.
Don't go diving with such a person.

Me? I use a Poseidon Jetstream w octopus. My buddy uses a Divex w oct.

That's just about what I can think of for the moment.

/ nils

------------------------------

End of rec-scuba Digest
******************************

The article backlog is 404102 bytes, and 260 articles.

Trying2Fly

unread,

Jul 16, 1995, 3:00:00 AM7/16/95

In article <9506158058....@ccmail.wcc.com>,
ADMIN...@ccmail.wcc.com writes:

> cc:Mail SMTPLINK Undeliverable Message

I have sent two posts to the sender of the above message with no response.
Why are these re-runs sent? They waste my time and tie up my computer.
Once I was stuck for 20 minutes.

ADMIN...@ccmail.wcc.com

unread,

Jul 16, 1995, 3:00:00 AM7/16/95

Message undeliverable at this time

id AA10126; Sun, 16 Jul 95 17:18:21 MDT
Received: from stanley.cis.Brown.EDU (stanley.cis.brown.edu [128.148.176.55]) by listserv.brown.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id SAA20132; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 18:17:12 -0400

Received: from BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU by BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b)

with NJE id 0668 for SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU; Sun, 16 Jul 1995
18:15:38 -0400

Received: from BROWNVM (NJE origin SMTP@BROWNVM) by BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (LMail

V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3156; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 18:15:37 -0400

Received: from scifi.maid.com by BROWNVM.brown.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP;

Sun, 16 Jul 95 18:15:16 EDT
Received: (from njs@localhost) by scifi.maid.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA16871;
Sun, 16 Jul 1995 18:16:23 -0400
Approved-By: Nick Simicich <n...@SCIFI.EMI.NET>
Message-Id: <1995071622...@scifi.maid.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 18:16:23 -0400

Reply-To: rec-...@cs.utexas.edu
Sender: Scuba Digest Redistribution <SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
From: Nick Simicich <n...@scifi.emi.net>

Subject: rec-scuba Digest V4 #619

To: Multiple recipients of list SCUBA-D <SCU...@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>

rec-scuba Digest Sun, 16 Jul 95 Volume 4 : Issue 619

Today's Topics:
*** BOSTON, MA *** PADI open water class
*** Boston, MA SCUBA WWW site ***
Anthonys Key Resort Special!
Divi Tiara/Cayman Brac (was Vacation Suggestions)
Diving in Portugal and Holiday diving courses
For sale dive equipment Edinburgh UK
Gay Scuba Article Continued!!!
Gay Scuba Article-- Palau and Yap
Great Lakes Diving [3]
Guanaja, Continental Airlines, and Air Mike
ISBN Number Theory book PADI
Key Largo, where to dive/stay? [5]
Light Harpoon Gun for sale
PORTUGAL recommendations please?
rec-scuba Digest V4 #603
Shallow water blackout [4]
Sherwood Regulator??? [3]
Ultimate RED SEA DIVING TRIP from SA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 03:46:36 GMT
From: "Carlton E. Oakes" <oa...@tiac.net>
Subject: *** BOSTON, MA *** PADI open water class
Message-ID: <3u24us$a...@sundog.tiac.net>
Organization: The Internet Access Company

Learn to SCUBA in BOSTON,MA sign up through the net.
for more information via World wide web

http://www.tiac.net/users/oakes/index.html

or E-mail at oakes@tiac

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 04:39:24 GMT
From: "Carlton E. Oakes" <oa...@tiac.net>
Subject: *** Boston, MA SCUBA WWW site ***
Message-ID: <3u281s$a...@sundog.tiac.net>
Organization: The Internet Access Company

Check out this site if you live in Boston and want to learn to dive

http://www.tiac.net/users/oakes

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 06:39:41 GMT
From: Steve Linley <Linl...@cris.com>
Subject: Great Lakes Diving
Message-ID: <3u2f3d$2...@warp.cris.com>
Organization: Submerged Video Productions

The Great Lakes has awesome wreck diving. I'd like to converse more
with others about the diving in and around Michigan.
Steve

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 10:36:41 GMT
From: Rick Dudeck <DUD...@aa.wl.com>
Subject: Re: Great Lakes Diving
Message-ID: <3u2svp$q...@reeve.research.aa.wl.com>
Organization: Warner-Lambert/Parke-Davis

Steve Linley <Linl...@cris.com> wrote:
>The Great Lakes has awesome wreck diving. I'd like to converse more
>with others about the diving in and around Michigan.
>Steve
>
Yes it does, Lake Huron has a number of wrecks to see but Lake Superior
has the best in vis. and some of the best preserved wrecks around. Our
dive club is starting to dive in Erie and reports that there are some
nice things to see, now that the zebra muscles have cleared the water.

Rick

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 17:48:09 GMT
From: Steve Linley <Linl...@cris.com>
Subject: Re: Great Lakes Diving
Message-ID: <3u3m8p$e...@warp.cris.com>
Organization: Submerged Video Productions

Rick,
I used to dive a lot in Huron and the Straits of Mackinac area. I guess
I have dived nearly all the know wrecks in these areas.
For the past 15 years or so I been diving Lake Superior. I been to Isle
Royale five times. I dived the Gunilda on the North Shore in '93 and
'94.
I spend a lot of time diving at Whitefish point. The wrecks are great
and so is the vis.!
Steve

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 12:47:45 -0500

From: hunt...@PICA.ARMY.MIL ("Hugh A. Huntzinger" (CCAC))

Subject: Divi Tiara/Cayman Brac (was Vacation Suggestions)
Message-ID: <950713134...@CCAC1.PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway

Skip writes:
> Traci: Would you please KNOCK IT OFF about Divi Tiara.
> Next thing you know, it'll be full and we can't go.

Its going to happen anyway - Chuck & Beth P. have resigned from Divi.

I just got a letter from the Brac confirming the (IMHO good) news. The
new dive shop manager (name at home) reportedly working out very well,
and in Photo Tiara,

....Maistro? drum roll, please...

Aileen Kane is **BACK**

-hh ...72 days until BRAC ATTACK VII...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 08:21:03 GMT
From: rv...@oce.nl (Rene' van der Meer)
Subject: Diving in Portugal and Holiday diving courses
Message-ID: <rvde.60....@oce.nl>
Organization: Oce'

We, my wive and I, just finished our NOB (CMAS) 1* certification.
This year we are going to spend our holidays in Portugal. Through
our Dutch diving association, the NOB, we have received some information
about diving in Portugal. The list includes only two diving areas. Peniche
(between Porto and Lissabon) and Lagos (the Algarve)

I wonder if there are more diving sites and if anyone would share their diving
experience in Portugal. We have been there a few years ago. Especially
the island Berlenga (Peniche) is astonishing beautiful.

How about diving courses ? Two friends without any diving experience
are joining us on this trip. Many diving schools are giving short diving courses.
Is this a save way to start a new vision towards live ?

Diving centre in Peniche

Robin Wassenbergh
Mergumar Lda
Caixa Postal 8
2465 Sao Martinho do Porto
Tel 09-351-62-989471
Fax 09-351-62-989216

Diving centres in Lagos

Luz Bay Sea Sports Centre
Detlef Seeger
Av. dos Pescadores, Loja 4
Praia da Luz, 8600 Lagos
Tel 09-351-82-789538

Tauchbasis "Schwarze Koralle"
Camping Ingrina, Villa do Bispo
8650 Praia da Ingrnha, Lagos
Tel 09-351-82-66242 (19.00- 20.00 CET)

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 14:24:40 -0500
From: car...@SALCIUS2.csg.mot.com (Margaret Caruso)
Subject: Re: rec-scuba Digest V4 #603
Message-ID: <9507131423.ZM15981@SALCIUS2>
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway

Hi,

I'm going scuba diving in Ft. Lauderdale and I would like to know where's
the best place to go. TIA

Margaret Caruso ____ o o
car...@salcius2.csg.mot.com (_/\_)o WaterWoman

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 09:41:46 GMT
From: t...@geovax.ed.ac.uk (Tim Hodges)
Subject: For sale dive equipment Edinburgh UK
Message-ID: <1995Jul13.094146.1@geovax>
Organization: University of Edinburgh, Geography Department.

Various dive equipment for sale including membrane dry suit, Buddy Arctic ABLJ,
DV, Cylinder and gauges.

If interested call me in the day on 0131 650 2540 (my last day at that number
is on 21st July)
or
in the evenings 0131 668 4579

Or email me as below but don't expect an immediate reply after 21st July
Cheers

Tim
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Tim Hodges.
Dept. of Geography, Univ. of Edinburgh ,
Drummond Street, Edinburgh, EH8 9XP, Scotland.
E-mail: T...@UK.AC.ED.GEOVAX
Tel: (0)131-650 2540
Fax: (0)131-650 2524
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1995 13:42:18 GMT
From: Peter du Pre le Roux <dplr...@telkom08.telkom.co.za>
Subject: Light Harpoon Gun for sale
Message-ID: <3u5s7q$a...@grovel.iafrica.com>
Organization: Telkom SA Limited

1 Green and Greener light harpoon gun made in the 1960's I believe one of
only fifty made with 500 rounds of ammunition. Looking for offers from a
buyer.

Peter J du Pre le Roux
Manager: Marketing Special Promotions
Tel: 311-3107 Fax: 311-4586
Cell: 082 9900 719
Internet: dplr...@telkom08.telkom.co.za
X400: C=ZA; A=TELKOM400; P=Telkom; OU1=Telkom08; S=dplroupj

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 09:43:39 GMT
From: n903...@mella.ee.up.ac.za
Subject: Ultimate RED SEA DIVING TRIP from SA
Message-ID: <n9033122....@mella.ee.up.ac.za>
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, University of Pretoria

Hi from sunny, but cold Pretoria, South Africa.

Sit back and let me give you something to think about.

South African dive school and dive club is planning
a magical, and educational, combined dive and sightseeing trip to Egypt and
Israel. I don't have to tell any scuba diver about the Red Sea, and all the
wonders beneath its sparkling blue water, and now is your chance to see, and
experience it all.

This trip will include:

* A return ticket from Johannesburg, SA to Cairo, the capital of Egypt,

* One domestic flight from Cairo to the dive capital of the Red Sea, Sharm
el Sheikh,

* Two nights in a luxury hotel in the suburb of Heliopolis, Cairo, all meals
included,

* Sightseeing trip to the Pyramids of Giza, the Egyptian museum, the
Citadel, the big bazaars of Cairo, and everything else you can fit into two
days in Cairo,

* a tourguide, driver and luxury bus,

* a dinner cruise on the Nile,

* a live-aboard package for 7 days with unlimited, really unlimited diving,
all meals included.

* a dive with dolphins in Eilat,

* a camel dive safari in the Sinai dessert,

and lots more!!!!!

I have done this trip in June, 1994 and I am going to do it again in
November, 1995.

You or any group can do this package any time of the year.

I wish I can recount my whole experience to you to convince you that this is
a once in a lifetime offer. But seeing that I cannot, you are welcome to
phone, e-mail or fax me for more detailed information, and a chat about
the Red Sea experience.

This everything included package, yes everything, will cost you R7590,00 and
is organised through a respected travel agent in JHB. There is no hidden
costs, I know, I am a budget plan student.

Please feel free to contact me for more info, and if you in Pretoria, and
interested in this opportunity, I will stick you for a coffee, and show you
some photos of my previous trip to the Red Sea.

Keep on diving

Louis

Tel (012) 732871 (H)
(012) 420 2995 (W) only in the mornings
e-mail: ci...@scientia.up.ac.za
I don't have a faxmachine but I can organize one temporarily. e-mail me!
Louis Celliers
Environmental Biotechnology Lab
Microbiology and Plantpathology
University of Pretoria
South Africa
e-mail: ci...@agric.up.ac.za

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 15:52:22 -0500

From: hunt...@PICA.ARMY.MIL ("Hugh A. Huntzinger" (CCAC))

Subject: Re: Guanaja, Continental Airlines, and Air Mike
Message-ID: <950713165...@CCAC1.PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway

jbi...@BIX.com (Jordan Bigel) probably said:
>>
>>I also must say that I was not
>>impressed with Continental. Flights overcrowed and late, flight
>>attendants not the most pleasant. I would not fly them again except I
>>understand they are the only airline into Micronesia so...

Two other posters appeared to have disagreed.

Well...

My brother lived on Guam for 4-5 years and he travelled extensively in
Micronesia for his job, averaging 20 days per month. That's a LOT of
flying...he only averaged only 1 weekend of diving per month because of
the time-to-fly rules. He has MANY horror stories. Mystery schedules,
mechanical problems and near-miss incidents were all equally represented.

I'd venture to say that if someone said to him that Air Mike "runs quite
efficiently", his response would be:

"Yeah, the flights even carry their own mechanics"

This alludes to an incident where the pilot & copilot had a fistfight
with a mechanic who REFUSED to board the airplane he just serviced.

It had something to do with the mechanic saying the plane was unfit for
flight but the pilots were going to go anyway and they wanted him to
finish the service at the next stop...can't figger WHY he was upset ;-)

He also says a ride in a 727 when its only 12' above the water (and a half
mile short of land) is something you'll remember, especially in a T-Storm.

-hh "Those who fly us...HAVE TO"
(perverted slogan; name the airline, win a prize!)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 11:11:03 GMT
From: ron...@lexmark.com
Subject: Shallow water blackout
Message-ID: <DBnJ2...@lexmark.com>
Organization: Lexmark International, Lexington, KY

I saw a reference to this phenomenon in another post today... what
typically causes shallow water blackout?

Randy O'Neal "The above views are mine alone,
ron...@lexmark.com though they can be yours too for
Printer Attach Software Development a nominal fee..."
Lexmark International, Inc. __o o __o __o
Lexington, Ky. `\<, \\_/\_, `\<,-`\<,
(606)-232-4330 O/ O O O O/----/ O

Radar's Fundamental Truth:
The grass is brown on both sides of the fence.

------------------------------

Date: 16 Jul 1995 02:50:11 GMT
From: frog...@ix.netcom.com (Jean-Pierre Grelet)
Subject: Re: Shallow water blackout
Message-ID: <3u9up3$6...@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom

In <DBnJ2...@lexmark.com> ron...@lexmark.com writes:

>
>I saw a reference to this phenomenon in another post today... what
>typically causes shallow water blackout?
>
>Randy O'Neal "The above views are mine alone,
>ron...@lexmark.com though they can be yours too for
>Printer Attach Software Development a nominal fee..."
>Lexmark International, Inc. __o o __o __o
>Lexington, Ky. `\<, \\_/\_, `\<,-`\<,
>(606)-232-4330 O/ O O O O/----/ O
>
>Radar's Fundamental Truth:
> The grass is brown on both sides of the fence.
>

hey randy,

To understand shallow water blackout you should know that the
urge to breath is caused by the increase of carbon dioxide in the body
not the lack of O2.This phenomena is basically a free diver's reality.
When a free diver takes the usual 3-4 deep breathes the intent is to
reduce carbon dioxide so he can stay down longer before he has to
surface but too much "hyperventilation" can deplete carbon dioxide to
the point where no carbon dioxide or not enough is present to signal the
brain that it is time to breathe,so he stays down too long and depletes
so much O2 that upon descent body tissues suddenly are not supplied with
O2 as partial pressure decreases. Subsequently, one passes out and
suffocates without really realizing it. This lack of O2 is reffered to
medically as hypoxia, or simply stated "biting the big one". Hope that
answers the question...........................

Later ,
frogman1

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 95 19:48:38 GMT
From: bry...@darwin.mbb.sfu.ca (Bryan Crawford)
Subject: Re: Shallow water blackout
Message-ID: <bryanc.805664918@darwin>
Organization: Simon Fraser University

ron...@lexmark.com writes:

>I saw a reference to this phenomenon in another post today... what
>typically causes shallow water blackout?

Shallow water blackout is a danger to freedivers who hyperventilate
before doing a fairly deep dive. It almost got me while snorkeling
in Hawaii. The way it happens is this:

The diver hyperventilates at the surface, which rids the body of as much
CO2 as possible and fills the lungs with fresh air. Thus the ppO2 of the
air in the lungs is .21ata. Then the diver descends to depth, compressing
the air in the lungs, so the ppO2 is something greater than .21. Durning
the dive, the diver's metabolism is consuming O2 and producing CO2. Your
desire to breathe is a function of the concentration of CO2 in your blood...
since the diver hyperventilated before the dive, there is less CO2 to start
with, so it will take longer for the desire to breathe to become strong
(that's why hyperventilating lets you stay down longer...you don't actually
get any more O2, you just don't feel the urge to breathe as soon).

So now the ppO2 in the diver's blood is dropping, and the O2 in the lungs
is entering the blood stream to equilibrate it. Since the air in the lungs
is compressed by depth, the ppO2 is high, so equilbration will keep the ppO2
high in the blood. However, the ppO2 in the lungs is dropping now as well
so this can't go on indefinately. Eventually the diver surfaces. Suppose
that the ppO2 in the lungs had dropped to .21ata by the end of the dive, and
that the dive was to 66fsw (that is to say, 2/3 of the ppO2 was used up
during the dive, because the ppO2 in the lungs at 66fsw would have been .63
to start with).

As the diver surfaces, the ambient pressure drops, and consequently the air
in the lungs expands, causing the ppO2 in the air to drop. Near the surface
the ppO2 of the air in the lungs will be aproaching 0.07. Therefore the
blood in the capillary beds in the lungs will be *loosing* oxygen to the
air, rather than the converse, as is usually the case. Thus, the ammount of
oxygen being carried by the diver's blood will plummet as he surfaces,
causing sudden loss of conciousness.

This is why it's a BAD THING(tm) to hyperventilate before free diving. A
big breath is all you need.

Cheers.

--
Bryan Crawford bry...@sfu.ca
Institute of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry
Simon Fraser University
Burnaby, BC, Canada

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 1995 05:08:59 -0400
From: az...@aol.com (AZDav)
Subject: Re: Shallow water blackout
Message-ID: <3u80jb$a...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

Bryan,

Several months ago I posted a long article on how I almost drowned from a
very deep free dive (at least 90' plus additional horizontal travel while
following a tourist submarine) in Hawaii. I blacked out just before I hit
the surface, but my body's momentum or subconscious continuation took me
to the surface.

On the way up I knew I might not make it, and really went into overdrive.

I always thought drowning would be a terrible way to die, but maybe not as
I felt little pain or discomfort in the critical phase (probably due to
the adrenalin and/or being on the verge of blackout). Of course, it was
all over in short order, anyway.

David

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 11:31:49 GMT
From: kas...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Michael Kastner)
Subject: PORTUGAL recommendations please?
Message-ID: <3u3075$6...@fu-berlin.de>
Organization: Freie Universitaet Berlin

Does anybody know of a few nice places to go snorkeling here, maybe in
the Algave area?

Thanks in advance and take care

Mike [\]

* Michael Kastner kas...@zedat.fu-berlin.de *
* Freie Universitaet Berlin * Institut fuer Toxikologie *

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 11:48:47 GMT
From: pala...@xroads.com (bubba)
Subject: Gay Scuba Article-- Palau and Yap
Message-ID: <3u3bt6$1...@news.xroads.com>
Organization: Crossroads Communications

Here is an article I recently wrote, it will be going into Our World, a gay
travel magazine. Enjoy all, and please let me know what you think!

Diving Paradise

Will Green

I was saving my pennies for an exotic trip. One which would take me on an adven-ture,
on a trip so memorable that I would be talking about it for months if not years. I wanted to go
somewhere which was off the beaten path, on a road less traveled. Primitive perhaps. Exotic
certainly. I also wanted to scuba dive some of the world s most prolific reefs, and witness the
cornucopia of life that is present in some of the most complex ecological systems on earth.

There are very few gay diving trips to exotic places in the world. It is definitely a niche
market. From past experience, I knew that Undersea Expeditions always did an excellent job of
providing a top notch service, and this trip proved to be no exception. Our destination this time
was Yap and Palau. These two islands are tucked into the soft underbelly of Micronesia, located
just north of the equator, and a few hundred miles southwest of Guam.

These countries have an interesting history. Yap is one of the states of a new country
called the Federated States of Micronesia, while Palau is a new country. Both countries are
attempting to wean themselves from the US noblesse oblige. The US has been pumping hundreds
of millions of dollars into these economies since World War II. Now, in an attempt to promote self
sufficiency, the aid is being reduced. Unfortunately, the peoples of these countries are used to the
aid, the canned food and easy life provided by our subsidies. The next few years will be hard for
them as they struggle for new sources of income, and a new identity.

Yap
Yap was our first destination. It took me about 26 hours to get there from Phoenix. One
of my fellow travelers came all the way from Trinidad, and it took him over 32 hours to make the
trip! That coupled with an eight hour time change and date change, and we all arrived more than a
little weary. We had been traveling so long, we were not even sure about what day it was! Bad
hair was the rule, not the exception. But since this was going to be a dive trip, everyone was used
to bad hair. When scuba diving, every day is a bad hair day.

At the Yap airport, we were greeted by several huge summo wrestler baggage
han-dlers clad in only a small bit of cloth wrapped around their loins. If they were only a little
younger and lost about 200 pounds it would have been interesting! Later we found out that this is
suitable attire for only very young children and older married men. Young men of teenage and into
marriageable years wore much more modest at-tire. Too bad. After retrieving our excessive
luggage (not only did we all bring copious changes of clothes- one can never take too many outfits,
but we were saddled with all of our dive gear as well), we were escorted to the Manta Ray Bay
Hotel.

The Manta Ray Bay Hotel is arguably the nicest hotel in all Yap. It was a little ec-centric
in its ability to provide hot water, air conditioning and electricity to all the rooms at all times, but at
least the staff s hearts were in the right place. The rooms were spacious, and decorated with
native Yapese art. The halls of the hotel were laden with numerous amateur photos of the
wondrous sights taken at the nearby reefs. The ocean greeted us as it lapped peacefully just
outside the hotel lobby.

The dive operation was a well run establishment. Freddy, the proprietor, was very
accommodating and helpful, and he spoke with a soft Swiss German ac-cent. His boats were clean
and punctual. This promptness which is expected by most Westerners is not part of the culture on
Yap, and it was remarkable that his Yapese staff was sensitive to our Western expectations about
promptness.

Although we were suffering from jet lag, we all wanted to go diving as soon as pos-sible.
After all, that was why we were here. The same afternoon of our arrival, with only a shower and
lunch, we went on one of the most spectacular dives of our lives!

The Mantas

The reason why divers come to Yap is the mantas. Yap is world famous for these gentle,
soaring creatures. We were overwhelmed on our first dive by seeing squadrons of these animals,
each weighing up to 1,500 pounds, and soaring on 20 foot wingspans. They flew (swam?) like B-52
bombers in formation on graceful wings, stopping at the local cleaning station to be stripped of
parasites by smaller fish. It was right next to one of these cleaning stations where Freddy set us
down between the rocks to witness these wonderful creatures. As I clung to the rocks, the
current raking the mask off my face, I was fascinated by the spectacle. I noticed that each of the
animals has its own unique pattern of spots on its belly. Back at the dive shop, there was a poster
showing the patterns of spots on several mantas, each with its own name. We stayed until some
of us ran low on air. All of us were high from the experi-ence, and vowed to return the next day to
see these creatures again.

Little is known about mantas. We do know that they eat plankton, and that they strain it
out of the water like whales. We know little of their breeding or their migratory habits. Visiting the
mantas was a wondrous spectacle. In an attempt to see it again, we dove the same cleaning
stations two more times. Only once were we dis-appointed in not seeing these beautiful creatures.

Other Sights in Yap

Back at the hotel again, we were treated to what I believe to be one of the best
deli-cacies I have ever tasted. Parrot fish sashimi. It was soft, succulent and incredibly memorable.
After experiencing more of the hotel s restaurant fare, I concluded the only reason why this dish
was so good was the chef did not have an opportunity to cook it. The food at the hotel went from
bad to terrible. One offering was chicken loaf with gravy. Another was fresh tuna. Sounds good,
right? But after the chef got done frying it into a piece of shoe leather, no amount of bottled tartar
sauce could help it. The waitress was asked if she had any brown bread. She replied, Of course
we do. We take white bread, and toast it, then it turns brown! When we were discussing past boy
friends among ourselves, the question was always: Was the guy the catch of the day or the
diver s lunch? It was pathetic.

By this time, all of us divers were getting to know each other. Although we were mostly
Americans, there was one person from the Philippines, and one from Trinidad. The youngest
among us was 25, the oldest was about 50 or so. Remarkably, no one fought or made a scene
anytime during the trip. When you are in close contact with a several strangers for an extended
period of time, it is always possible that difficulties will emerge. This was not a problem on this trip
or any of the other scuba trips which I have taken with Undersea Expeditions.

One of Yap s unique customs is sure to appeal to lesbians. Many women wear no tops,
and parade around with their bare breasts flapping against their stomachs-- even while shopping.
One afternoon, we stopped by their equivalent of a Safeway, and were checking out the local fare.
Several of us rounded a corner inside the store, and, right there, in front of us was a 250 pound
Yapese woman, huge pendulous breasts languishing on her ample stomach, examining a can of
pork and beans. One of our more flamboyant travelers said he had never seen anything like it, and
decided that it would be a long time before he wanted to see that again. But perhaps lesbians
might enjoy this unique show more.

The people of Yap have some very interesting customs concerning nudity. While the
Yapese women are free to show us more than any of us wanted to see, the men were a different
matter. Young men were always primly attired. One rather cute member of our group was stopped
by the police during a walk into town. He was asked to return to the hotel and put on something
more appropriate. He was wearing a speedo swim-suit, sandals, and a long T shirt which hung half
way to his knees. Talk about a dou-ble standard!!! Needless to say, he turned around, went back
to the hotel, and changed. When in Yap, do as the Yapese do.

One of the afternoons in which we were not diving we went on a cultural tour of the
island. One of the attractions of the island is stone money. The money are large round stones
some over 6 feet high with a hole in the middle. They are left at public spots around the island. This
money can be used to purchase land, or other commodities. Some of these stones are valued at
$35.00 per square inch. The money is never moved. Only ownership changes. There is only a finite
number of these large stones brought from Palau to Yap hundreds of years ago. Therefore they
are rare, and their perceived value among the Yapese high. I remembered my Economics 101 class
and our discussions concerning the Relative Value of Commodities. The bottom line was that value
is a perception, not a fact. If the people of Yap believe some of these stones to be worth hundreds
of thousands of dollars, than that is what they are worth-- at least to them.

Another afternoon activity was a demonstration of the local dances put on by the
natives. This performance was straight out of National Geographic. Large women, bosoms
bouncing, and stomachs billowing were joined by several more modestly dressed men and boys in
a series of rather intricate dance steps and singing. Some of these dances involved the use of
bamboo sticks which were brandished about their heads in a warlike fashion. Several of my fellow
travelers said they were appalled at the sight of so much bare feminine flesh, and would be happy
never to see it again. I personally thought it was an amazing display, authentic as it was sincere.
Perhaps in a few years, Yap will no longer be the tourist backwater it is today and shows like this
will disappear. In the effort to bring in hard currency, there will perhaps be many more tourists,
and therefore more commercialism, and shows like this will fade away, or be Americanized. The
show was as unique as Yap itself.

CONTINUED ON NEXT POST!!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 11:52:30 GMT
From: pala...@xroads.com (bubba)
Subject: Gay Scuba Article Continued!!!
Message-ID: <3u3c46$1...@news.xroads.com>
Organization: Crossroads Communications

here is the rest of the story!!!

Palau
As much as we enjoyed quaint, quirky Yap, most of our vacation was on the island of
Palau. Palau is more modern than Yap. It has multi-storied buildings, a port, and a healthy tourist
industry. We were met at the airport by a blow-dried blonde guy who was one of the land based
staff of our dive boat, the Peter Hughes Sun Dancer. He got us into several vans, and took us to
our boat.

The Sun Dancer is a magnificent boat. It is over 100 feet long, had can sleep 16 di-vers
plus the crew of eight. It has just about everything you could want in a luxurious accommodation:
bathrooms in each cabin, air conditioning, water making equipment, full video editing and film
development capabilities, plus a wonderful staff and for the first time on this trip, great food. The
only thing it lacked was hot and cold running chamber boys... Oh well... Maybe I should complain to
the captain.

After getting settled, some of us partook of the open bar available on the boat. Not
many divers drink and dive because it is a sure way to get the bends, but since we were not diving
until tomorrow, a few beers could not hurt. That evening we all sat around, got more aquatinted
and told each other lies about all the wonderful places we had been before, and all the incredible
creatures we had seen. Fish stories.

The next day, our first dive was a check out dive. It s here where the crew evaluates the
divers. They do this to assure themselves that we know which end of the regulator to suck on, as
well as have at least a passing acquaintance with our air pressure gauge. Usually, these dives are
relatively shallow, and in calm waters. This was no ex-ception. The dive was unusually boring
except the copious quantities of giant clams strewn around the reef. These babies were up to four
feet across, and their mantels were a myriad of different colors-- reds, greens, blues. Beautiful.

The Blue Corner

Probably the most incredible dive of my long and sordid life was at the Blue Cor-ner.
This reef has it all. There were sharks-- hundreds of them prowling the deep wa-ters just beyond
the reef, perhaps as many as a thousand barracudas swimming in large schools roaming the open
ocean closer to the surface. There were schools of lesser fish: jacks, sweet lips, sturgeons, tunas.
The reef was awash in every color of the rainbow. Bright reds, oranges and yellows burst from
the soft corals. There were the softer colors of the hard corals, including numerous specimens
which reached 10 to 15 feet across. There were thousands of fish whose color combination and
variety was too numerous to contemplate. Perhaps a thousand species of fish and coral, all visible
on one dive. This dive will be the standard by which all other dives will be judged. I have seen
beautiful reefs, but never the cacophony of fish. Many of the larger fish here are very tasty, and
are hunted routinely by man. Shark, barracuda, and tuna (to name a few) are seldom found in
these numbers anywhere because man has fished them out. This was indeed an incredible
experience.

One fish stood out on this dive. It was a highly edible Napoleon Wrasse. This fish
weighed about 500 pounds and was about seven feet long. The Wrasse is a very large green
carnivore with perpetual frown on its large and protruding lips. (Like a boyfriend I once had, but
that is a different story.) Someone had fed him in the past and he, (the fish, not the boy friend)
unlike most fish who fled the divers, was very friendly. He was looking for a handout. He would
cruise by the divers, inspecting them for a possible meal, but keeping a wary distance. It was a
comical sight to see this huge green fish, lips protruding, following the divers around like a some
bizarre dog looking for a treat.

Wreck Diving

Diving a wreck can be dangerous. Wrecks are not necessarily stable edifices. They can
be confusing because many times the ship is on its side and what appears to be the floor is
actually a wall. It is easy to get disoriented, and in the worst case, lost. With air running out, it is
easy for the untrained diver to panic in the dark areas of a wreck and run into serious trouble. It
can be deadly, but done correctly, just as much an adventure. With this in mind, we embarked on
diving several of the wrecks of Palau.

All the wrecks we dove were Japanese, and were sunk by the US during World War II.
The first wreck we dove was the Tatsu Maru, a 300 foot long Japanese freighter. This was a newly
discovered wreck. We were only the second boat load of divers from the Sun Dancer to ever see
this wreck since it sank in the 1940 s. Under 50 people had prowled its deck in over 50 years. What
an awesome sight. Laying on its side in about 60 feet of water, it was a once magnificent freighter,
a massive hole blown in its side probably from a torpedo, its superstructure laying crumpled and
useless on the ocean floor. Diving the wreck, while definitely spooky was not grisly. All of the dead
soldiers on board had been completely dissolved by the sea, so no bones or skulls were present.
The sea had also started an interesting colony of corals on the ship, re-claiming the ship as her
own.

The last wreck dive of the trip was the Choyu Maru. Another Japanese freighter sunk by
the US during the war, this was another large boat: over 400 feet long. What made this dive
incredibly spooky was that we dove it at dawn. With the sun just peeking about the horizon, five of
our group braved the 5:30 wake up call to don our wet suits. Frank, our hunky dive master had
located the wreck earlier, and we tied up to the buoy he had set. I looked into the water. There
was no sign of the bottom, just green. He assured us that the boat was down there, so we all
jumped overboard with flashlights in hand to find the wreck. Down and down we went. I was
getting concerned. Here I was at 50 feet, and still all I could see was green, and the bubbles of my
fellow divers. Then all of a sudden, out of the green murk appeared the wreck. It was all around
me. The superstructure, the freight holds, winches, pulleys, cranes, and deck. The deck was at
about 80 feet. This time the ship had landed right side up on the bottom of the ocean. And out of
the gloom, she was slowly revealing herself to be truly magnificent.

I decided to descend into the bowels of the freight compartment. So, in the gloom of the
early dawn, I went down a large hatch into the blackness below. I descended to 110 feet. I could
barely make out the steel hull on either side of me, and the faint light from above marking the
hatch where I had descended. I shown my light downwards. Nothing but green. I looked for my
dive buddy who I thought was going to follow me. He probably decided I was being stupid and was
waiting for me at the deck level. Should I go deeper? Looking at my dive computer it was showing
that I had about 4 minutes before I entered decompression diving: where I could not ascend to the
sur-face without stopping for several minutes without risking getting the bends. I decided to rejoin
my buddy up on the deck level. I never did find out what was in the hold of that ship, but perhaps
one day I will.

Toward the end of the dive, we could see further than our flashlights could illumi-nate.
The sun was coming up, and the dive was becoming less ominous. The Choyu Maru was an eerie
wreck. It is too bad that most divers stayed in bed, and missed it!

Jellyfish Lake

Later on in the week we dove Jellyfish Lake. Jellyfish Lake is famous for two kinds of
jellyfish which are found no where else in the world. These creatures have adapted to the
brackish water, and the limited numbers of predators found here. They are unique in the animal
kingdom in that they have no stinging cells.

The day was bright and clear, at least for a while, as Palau s weather is as change-able
as the mind of a virgin. We were full of the wonderful breakfast provided by the Sun Dancer, and
set out amongst the small islands dotting Palau like the freckles on a young boy s face. After a 30
minute boat ride, we stopped at an innocuous indentation in one of these islands. There was
another boat there, from the competing dive operation in the area. We tied up to a branch that
overhung the water and were told we had arrived. But where? There was nothing to distinguish
this place from a myriad of other places on these islands. Dutifully getting off the boat and wading
through the warm water, we found that once on shore there was a small path leading up a hill.

We had been told that there would be some hiking, and this was it. Taking my snorkeling
equipment in hand, I set out, along with all the other divers up the hill. The rocks were very sharp,
and cut into my sandals. They also glistened with the morning rain, so they were slick at the same
time. This was no place for stilettos. About one third of the way up the hill, we were warned that
there was a tree with poi-sonous black sap. The jungle was all around us, and we could see no
blue sky, only the green canopy that loomed overhead. We came to the top of the hill made our
ac-quaintance with the sky for one brief moment, and then started our jungle descent. Going down
was equally treacherous, and several jokes were made about us all falling domino style down the
hill if one of us slipped. When we got to the bottom, we were confronted by a small pool amongst
the mangroves that lead out to a lake in the dis-tance. We all donned on our snorkeling stuff and
carefully, so as to avoid being cut by the rocks, eased into the brackish water.

At first glance, this looked like a normal lake albeit in a jungle setting. Then I saw one. A
translucent brown frilly jellyfish pulsating through the water. It was beautiful, its transparent top
pulsing rhythmically, slowly propelling it through the water. And then I saw another, and another!
Soon there were jellyfish everywhere. Out in the middle of the lake, it was not possible to swim a
stroke without somehow touching many of these beautiful creatures. I felt them caress my body
as I swam slowly through them. One of them got caught between my foot and fins, and I had to
rescue the poor unfortunate thing which had become mangled in the experience. Further into the
lake there was another type of jellyfish. This one was more diaphanous, and larger than the brown
kind. They were also found much deeper in the lake, their gossamer tentacles glistening in the
lake s subtle currents.

We swam amongst these strange creatures for quite a while, and then in true
Palauan fashion, it started to rain. Time to go. So, we packed up all of our gear and with a warm
rain descending on us, hiked over the now even more treacherous trail, and went back to the boat
for a mid-morning snack.

It was amazing to me that this place is unmarked and completely undeveloped. Had this
been in the US, there would have been a parking lot, a Visitor s Center, rang-ers, and a cordoned
off area so that no one could get near the water let alone swim in it. Palau is different. Off the
beaten path for all but the most committed divers, the lack of traffic and resources has kept this
place as pristine and beautiful as those that first discovered it.

Crystal Cave

Our last dive of the trip was to Crystal Cave. Cave diving is a specialty all of its own. It
requires a certain amount of skill as well as ample stupidity. The primary problem with diving a
cave is that if you get into trouble, there is no air above you, only rock. This means that bobbing to
the surface at the first sign of trouble is NOT an option. This presents certain problems for those
of us who are squeamish about not having blue sky above, even if you have to look through 100
feet of water to see it.

As this was our last dive, all the divers attended, and spirits were high. We passed part
of the port of Palau, a needlessly dirty place complete with the rusting hulk of a ship which did not
weather the last storm. The dive master muttered something about insurance money. Welcome to
the real world.

The entrance to the cave was as innocuous as the path to Jellyfish Lake. There was no
way that anyone without special knowledge would ever find it. The mouth of the cave was located
in a lagoon singular in Palau for its ugliness. It had obviously been touched by the hand of man. We
all dutifully jumped off the boat into the warm water and waited for everyone to get ready. We
were diving this dive as a group. For obvious reasons, if someone had problems with their gear or
got claustrophobic under water, they would need help immediately, and since the surface was not
an option, the staff of the Sun Dancer wanted to make sure they were present for any emergency.
It was for these reasons that we had several staff members diving with us.

As soon as we were all assembled, we followed the Dive Master out of the light of day,
and into a gaping wound in the side of the island. As the rock closed in above my head, the way
was illuminated by the none-too-bright flash-lights of the divers in front of me, and I must admit I
grew anxious. Everyone was staying as close together as possible as we swam through this first
long passage. Soon, the passage widened and became a room. The room was vast. There was
evidence that this cave had once been above water. There were sta-lactites hovering overhead,
and there were stalagmites looming up from the silty bottom. Curtains of solid rock adorned the
sides of this inundated cave. Up at the top of the room there was even some air! I surfaced along
with several of my now friends to find that the cave had not been completely flooded after all. Was
the air here from past scuba divers? Or was this place above the level of the ocean? I never found
out. But it was very nice to take the regulator out of my mouth and talk to someone about the
beauty that was surrounding us. There were several rooms in this cave. Each had a small amount
of air at the top. This lessened my apprehension about diving in total darkness with the rock
looming everywhere.

Good Byes

Back at the boat again, it was time to pack up and settle our bills. Several of us had
vainly attempted to buy out the boatique in an attempt to have all the right fashion attire. Now it
was time to settle up. We then said our fondest farewells to the wonderful crew of the Sun
Dancer. They were professional, warm, and kind. They made our stay in this far away place
comfortable and indeed luxurious. As we packed all of our gear into a few mini-vans, I looked back
fondly at this wonderful boat whose technology had made it possible to effortlessly dive these
waters.

The airport was a mixture of tearful good-byes and several see-you-soons as my now
friends departed for their various destinations across the globe. I was not looking forward to the
26 hour flight, but there were two other guys travel-ing with me to Phoenix, so perhaps the time
would go a little quicker. I started thinking about work, bills and relationships. Welcome back to the
real world. I guess the fantasy had to end sometime!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 16:13:51 -0400
From: ba...@gate.net (mike skweir)
Subject: Anthonys Key Resort Special!
Message-ID: <bahia-13079...@miafl3-38.gate.net>
Organization: Bahia Tours & Anthony's Key Resort

We are offering a special to AKR. If you are interested check in
rec.travel.marketplace. Thanks.

This is not an ad!!! Just a post.

*********************************************************************
Mike Skweir at ba...@gate.net

Bahia Tours, Inc. Anthony's Key Resort World Travel Network

"Nothing Ventured...Nothing Gained."
My opinions are mine only...I think so

*********************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 12:15:35 GMT
From: R.St...@inter.NL.net (Rick Stroot)
Subject: ISBN Number Theory book PADI
Message-ID: <R.Stroot....@inter.NL.net>
Organization: Transfer EDS

Hi anybody,

I am looking for the theory book that is used for the Open Water Diver
Certificat from PADI. If possible I need to have the dutch version of this
book (or a contact adress in the netherlands for PADI). But I am also happy to
have the Englisch version of the Theory book.

Can anybody help me with this ?????

Kind regards,
Rick Stroot

Pleas E-Mail answers back to R.St...@inter.nl.net

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 12:52:46 GMT
From: Paul Trimble <Paul.T...@sematech.org>
Subject: Re: Sherwood Regulator???
Message-ID: <3u34uu$d...@pulitzer.eng.sematech.org>
Organization: SEMATECH, Austin

"Jeff thornton" <j_t...@ringworld.upl.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'm concidering getting a Sherwood Regulators. I have a real bad problem
> with Dry Mouth, sometimes it gets so bad I start to gag. Its rather
> inconvenient and a real waste of Air.
>
> Anyway, I hear that the Sherwood regulators have some little fins in them
> that are supposed to reatain moisture so dry mouth is not so bad. Does this
> actually work, and how do the regulators perform as far as breathing etc.
>
> Anyone have any experience with them. I'd be interested in hearing about
> there "Maximus" regulator I think it is. I guess thats there top of the line.
>
> Appreciate any info or experiences!
>
> Jeff
>
> Send replys to
>
> j_t...@ringworld.upl.com
>
> *******************************************************
> Jeff Thornton j_t...@ringworld.upl.com
> PacifiCorp Have a nice
> System Power Control Center Day!

I own a Maximus regulator and love it. Thought I have never had a
problem with cotton mouth, the regulator retains moisture and keeps
your mouth wet. See if your local dive shop will let you try out
a Maximus before you buy it. I tryed one out and was hooked.
Good Luck.

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 12:52:48 GMT
From: Paul Trimble <Paul.T...@sematech.org>
Subject: Re: Sherwood Regulator???
Message-ID: <3u34v0$2...@pulitzer.eng.sematech.org>
Organization: SEMATECH, Austin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 19:13:17 GMT
From: dbe...@bacchus.net.ilstu.edu (Dave Beedle)
Subject: Re: Sherwood Regulator???
Message-ID: <1995Jul13....@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu>
Organization: Illinois State University

Paul Trimble (Paul.T...@sematech.org) wrote:
> "Jeff thornton" <j_t...@ringworld.upl.com> wrote:
> >
> > I'm concidering getting a Sherwood Regulators. I have a real bad problem
> > with Dry Mouth, sometimes it gets so bad I start to gag. Its rather
> > inconvenient and a real waste of Air.
> >
> > Anyway, I hear that the Sherwood regulators have some little fins in them
> > that are supposed to reatain moisture so dry mouth is not so bad. Does this> > actually work, and how do the regulators perform as far as breathing etc.
> >
> > Anyone have any experience with them. I'd be interested in hearing about
> > there "Maximus" regulator I think it is. I guess thats there top of the lin> >
> > Appreciate any info or experiences!

> I own a Maximus regulator and love it. Thought I have never had a
> problem with cotton mouth, the regulator retains moisture and keeps
> your mouth wet. See if your local dive shop will let you try out
> a Maximus before you buy it. I tryed one out and was hooked.
> Good Luck.

I'd have to agree with this. I have a Maximus and don't have the dry mouth
problem. I stays quite moist. I would say steer away from their Encore
comupter but other than that I haven't had any problems with my Sherwood gear.
Though the air blead thingy is kinda strange...

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jul 1995 12:53:49 GMT
From: JoeL Markwell <73700...@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Key Largo, where to dive/stay?
Message-ID: <3u350t$38d$1...@mhadg.production.compuserve.com>

Organization: via CompuServe Information Service

I'd like info on where to dive (what operation to use) and where
to stay in Largo. I am looking for inexpensive but CLEAN
accommodations! I've heard about Amoray which is a dive resort,
any feedback on that? Also how about restaurants in the area?

Thanks!

JoeL

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 23:04:49 EDT
From: 2132...@msu.edu (Kim Dyer)
Subject: Re: Key Largo, where to dive/stay?
Message-ID: <173DB14497S...@msu.edu>
Organization: Michigan State University

>I'd like info on where to dive (what operation to use) and where
>to stay in Largo. I am looking for inexpensive but CLEAN
>accommodations! I've heard about Amoray which is a dive resort,
>any feedback on that? Also how about restaurants in the area?

Depends on what you want for accomodations. I have stayed at
Bay Harbor Lodge the last few times I went. Cottages among palm
trees. GREAT rope hammock between two palms with a view of the
bay. Clean, but not fancy. Also stayed at Sunset Cove, which is
the same general thing a little ways up the road ... but no hammock.
:-)

I always dive with Quiessence when I'm there.

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1995 16:19:52 -0400
From: fish...@aol.com (FISHCATCH)
Subject: Re: Key Largo, where to dive/stay?
Message-ID: <3u6jh8$r...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

Joe,
Unfortunately nothing is very inexpensive in the Keys anymore. Ocean
Divers is a top notch operation in the heart of Key Largo. Fast boats and
helpful staff. Quiescience is also good and limit their boats to six
passengers max. Good luck.
Eddie

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1995 02:36:26 GMT
From: rickr <ri...@sundial.net>
Subject: Re: Key Largo, where to dive/stay?
Message-ID: <3u4l7a$3...@sundial.sundial.net>
Organization: DIVERsions Worldwide, Inc.

JoeL,
try Amory it should be ok. I've never stayed there; but, I almost have
run a trip there! <g> That seem pretty ok on the phone. A little
further down is the Plantation Yacht and Harbor Club. They have pretty
good rates. That's where I booked my Mini Lobster Season Trip.

Isn't that a little far away from cave country? <vbg>
regards cu on cis, -Rick-

---------------------------
ri...@sundial.net (Rick Richbourg)
73624...@compuserve.com
Diversions Worldwide, Inc.
underwater adventures and scuba diving expeditions
P) 1.407.481.8775 f) 1.407.481.8845
--------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1995 02:44:51 GMT
From: Steve Haines <sha...@indy.net>
Subject: Re: Key Largo, where to dive/stay?
Message-ID: <3u4ln3$d...@indy-backup.indy.net>
Organization: IndyNet - Indys Internet Gateway (in...@indy.net)

My wife any I have been staying at the Largo Lodge at Key Largo
the past several years. It consists of about 8 cottages surrounded
by Palm trees and such. The cottages will hold two couples. They
only rent to adults. No children are permitted. This is mainly
due to the fact that they do not have a pool or any recreation
for kids. We did get to dive with 4 manatees that came into their
beach last year. They are clean and about $80-90 a night.

We usually dive with American Divers. They are located on the
right side just as you get to Key Largo. They are very friendly.
Groups ranged from 4 in our last dive to 15.

------------------------------

End of rec-scuba Digest
******************************

The article backlog is 376530 bytes, and 257 articles.

0 new messages