Cheeze Whiz toxic to fish?
Judy Fisher
I know a lot of people feed Cheeze Whiz to fish, and the fish like it. On my
certification dive we did too. Our instructor later was told that it would
kill the fish because they can't digest it. Does anybody know for sure?
Thanks,
Judy
Dale Firmin
magazine oh, years ago, about the popularity of people taking aerosol
cans of the soft cheeze spread. It is really convenient and, yes, the
fish really do love it. In fact cheeze is a good catfish bait used here
at home in Louisiana. However, cheeze is strictly a mammal product.
Mammals have an enzyme called lactase which breaks down the milk sugar
lactose into glucose and galactose. Some bacteria can also digest
lactase. (That's why milk sours. Bacteria breaks it down into lactic
acid and butyric acid.) But other animals, since milk is not their
normal food, cannot.
Kimo Morris
On Sat, 19 Oct 1996, Judy Fisher wrote:
> I know a lot of people feed Cheeze Whiz to fish, and the fish like it. On my
> certification dive we did too. Our instructor later was told that it would
> kill the fish because they can't digest it. Does anybody know for sure?
>
> Thanks,
> Judy
>
>
Judy, in order to ensure that the cheeze wiz doesn't spoil, the
manufacturers pack it full of preservatives which are un-digestible by
fish who are use to digesting simple vegetative or animal matter. So,
no, it probably doesn't provide them with any useful nutrients. On a
graver note, these preservatives can often impact fish, thus giving them
a bad case of constipation. We humans solve this problem by taking a
laxative - fish don't have that option and often die. This same problem
applies to frozen vegetables.
A. Kimo Morris
Grad Student, Oregon State U.
mor...@bcc.orst.edu
Shawn Brooks
I figure if it's not part of their natural diet then it is unlikely to be
good for them. More likely it is bad for them. Even if the cheese itself
is not bad for them, I can't imagine that it provides them with acceptable
nutrition. Most reef creatures you encounter on the reef have evolved over
millenia to be specialized feeders--not diversified feeders like us humans.
Shawn
Judy Fisher <fishe...@osu.edu> wrote in article
<fisher.263...@osu.edu>...
Dale Firmin
Kimo Morris wrote:
>
> On Sat, 19 Oct 1996, Judy Fisher wrote:
>
> > certification dive we did too. Our instructor later was told that it would
> > kill the fish because they can't digest it. Does anybody know for sure?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Judy
> >
> >
> manufacturers pack it full of preservatives which are un-digestible by
> fish who are use to digesting simple vegetative or animal matter. So,
> no, it probably doesn't provide them with any useful nutrients. On a
> graver note, these preservatives can often impact fish, thus giving them
> a bad case of constipation. We humans solve this problem by taking a
> laxative - fish don't have that option and often die. This same problem
> applies to frozen vegetables.
>
> A. Kimo Morris
> Grad Student, Oregon State U.
> mor...@bcc.orst.edu
"Nutrition: Essentials and Diet Therapy" sixth edition by Charlotte M.
Poleman B.S., R.D. and Nancy J. Peckenpaugh M.S.Ed., R.D. pg. 66. It's
not good to feed cheese to fish because, not being mammals, they lack
the enzyme lactase required to break down lactose into glucose and
galactose. A simular condition can occur in humans (babies so called
"allergic to milk") in some babies and in adults of many cultures. The
true disease is called lactose intolerance. One big mistake in the
relief of the starving Ethiopians was that America sent powdered milk
and cheeze to the adult population who couldn't eat it. In severe
cases, lactose (the sugar in milk, or "milk sugar") is absorbed into the
blood stream unbroken and increases osmotic pressure (a condition called
"lactosemia", if I remember correctly) and then really raises problems.
Fish eating cheese can cause digestive problems because of the inability
to break down the lactose and metabolic problems due to increased blood
osmotic pressure and can result in the death of the fish.
Unfortunately, the fish love the taste of cheese. I take pouches of
Tender Vittles cat food. The little bit sized chunks are just right and
the pouch is perfect. The little pieces stay togeather for a fair
amount of time underwater. Alternatively you can purchase Purina Trout
Chow. If you use cat food, make sure that it does not contain milk.
Dale
Chuck Narad
In article <fisher.263...@osu.edu>, fishe...@osu.edu writes:
> I know a lot of people feed Cheeze Whiz to fish, and the fish like it. On my
> certification dive we did too. Our instructor later was told that it would
> kill the fish because they can't digest it. Does anybody know for sure?
even if they can digest it (heck, I'm not sure that *people* can
digest cheez whiz :-) it is a bad idea to feed wildlife. by feeding
fish, you get them used to people and they lose some of their natural
caution, which can make them more susceptible to predation. Also you
can make the fish more agressive; I can't count the number of times
that I've been bitten by yellowtail snappers at popular dive sites,
who seem to think that my hand is full of bread or something.
if you have to mess with the natural habits of wildlife to get a
picture, it isn't worth shooting that picture. I feel very strongly
about this. (Dee Scarr of Touch The Sea fame, on Bonaire, and photographer
Cathy Church on Grand Cayman disagree with me; both regularly feed
fish; Dee feeds them fish, which is at least normal diet for them, while
Cathy uses Cheez Whiz, or at least she was several years ago when I
was there; she also had a blow-up of an article on the subject in her shop,
defending the practice.)
just one photographer's opinion.
chuck/
--------------------------------------------------------------------
| Chuck Narad -- diver/adventurer/engineer |
| |
| "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. And today? |
| Today is a gift. That's why we call it The Present." |
| - Babatunde Olatunji |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaron Morris
Dale,
Thanks for clearing that up. I believe you - although I don't have a
copy of your text book. However, the constipation thing does apply to
peas and other vegetables that are popular fish attractants.
Dale Firmin
Did I sound offensive? I'm sorry. I quoted the book because that is a
point that a lot of people argue a lot. Cheeze is so completely
digested (by humans) that there is no residue and people attribute that
to constipation. People with lactose intolerance actually get diarrhea.
Dale
BARTHOLOG
I was taught in my OW cert class that you should strive to leave things as
undisturbed as possible when you dive. The course stressed being as
unobtrusive as possible both for safety reasons (stinging plants, animals)
and ecological reasons. Many divers pride themselves on being
ecologically sensitive and often participate in litter clean up, reef
studies, etc.
Seems to me there is plenty to see and od underwater without the use of
"Cheez Whiz".
(I will now retire from the pulpit).
Safe Diving !
George
All the Best - George L. Bartholomew, Jr.
Dale Firmin
of your hand. But the grouper you are feeding to day will get used to
being around humans and will be a good target for the speargun of the
next diver. Now, if you are a spearfisherman, this is good news to you.
If you are a sight-seer, this is bad news, (always bad news for the
grouper). It's best that the fish just learn to develope a "limited
trust", trust that a human is just a visitor and not a predator. I dove
this past weekend in Panama City Florida on the wreck "Black Bart" and
was impressed by the trust of the fish. This particular wreck is where
most people go just to sightsee. There was a puffer slowly cruising
along within arms reach and, although I could see that he was watching
me, made no defensive jestures. Big beautiful queen angels seemed
totally unconcerned and practically posing for photos. We made no
attempts to try to touch or feed them and they treated us to calm,
natural behavior.
I am reminded of a Cousteau episode where their team befriended a
California Sea Otter only to find that same otter dead the next week,
killed by a fisherman. They were saddened in that, had the otter
thought of man as an enemy and not a friend, he probably would have
stayed clear of the fisherman and lived.
Dale
Do not feed the bears.
Jean-Francois Mezei
Check the ingredients in Cheeze Whiz. The only reason I would give that
stuff to any living being is perhaps to watch it change colour.
As for the inability of fishes to digest milk products, does Cheeze
Whiz even make claims that there is milk in that stuff ?
I agree with those who say that you should not feed fishes. A close
"natural" encounter with a fish is much more valuable than an artificial
one with a fish lured by food.
William H. Howell
>On Sat, 19 Oct 1996, Judy Fisher wrote:
>
>> I know a lot of people feed Cheeze Whiz to fish, and the fish like it.
>>Our instructor later was told that it would
>> kill the fish because they can't digest it. Does anybody know for sure?
>>
Judy
So many experts, so many opinions. This is almost a 'wet urban legend'
which may or may not have some truth. A few magazines have recently
said that there is no medical problem for the fish with this.
OTOH, I would find a real, genuine, not self proclaimed, fish expert and ask,
if I wanted to feed the scaley (sp?) little things....
A not too weird argument is: why feed them? Many will come check you
out and maybe be friendly without bribes. Strpped Bass, sometimes quite
large, seem almost pet like in their "curiousity." The accursed NE lobsters
in Plymouth MA will come at you, at sunset, if you start to approach them,
but they don't seem friendly....
A lot of nature groups are trying to convince divers
not to feed the (fish)! It is said to distort their survival factors.
One of my favorite photo setups is hanging out nearly motionless on a reef
or whatever, near noon time, and letting the wildlife go back to normal
all around me. Haven't gotten 'the shot' yet - still it is really serene.
Hope you enjoy diving at least half as much as I enjoy diving.
For Truth and Fair Winds
Bill Howell (DIVER!)
Kim Dyer
>I agree. Many of us have heard of a "friendly grouper" who will eat out
>of your hand. But the grouper you are feeding to day will get used to
>being around humans and will be a good target for the speargun of the
>next diver.
fishing is prohibited anyway.
>We made no
>attempts to try to touch or feed them and they treated us to calm,
>natural behavior.
By not attacking them, you are teaching them "big things won't
eat you", which is fine until something comes along that will.
Them being "calm" around something big enough to be a threat is
NOT natural behavior.
>I am reminded of a Cousteau episode where their team befriended a
>California Sea Otter only to find that same otter dead the next week,
>killed by a fisherman. They were saddened in that, had the otter
>thought of man as an enemy and not a friend, he probably would have
>stayed clear of the fisherman and lived.
(and food plentiful) it would have lived too. Lotsa dead otters that
never got a free meal and that never had "friendly" contact with people.
So does the birdseed I put out all year make me an evil person? The
little buggers are smart, and will abandon MY feeder the minute someone
down the road has something tastier in theirs. If my feeder vanishes
completely, they will go a couple miles away to where there are FIELDS
of sunflowers waving their heads. I'm greedy, and like having the
Cardinals, jays, finches and sparrows where I can look at them. (The
hummers are much more fussy, and move on to the neighbors once the
flowers come out.)
Just existing you alter the environment. I'm not advocating feeding
cheeze-whiz etc. to the fish, but they are much more capable of adapting
to your feeding or not feeding them then you may want to believe. Even
the *exceedingly* tame sting rays at Cayman's Stingray City will flip
their tails and go someplace else should the feeding stop tomorrow.
Dale Firmin
> I'm not advocating feeding cheeze-whiz etc. to the fish, but they are > much more capable of adapting to your feeding or not feeding them then > you may want to believe.
feeding the birds in a bird feeder. As far as I know, no other animal
intentionally feeds other fish. So is feeding fish in the ocean
"natural"? NOT feeding them would allow you to observe more natural
behavior than feeding them. And of course my presence altered their
enviroment and their behavior. That's why the Puffer kept watching ME
probably as much or more than I was watching him. Then there was the
Damsel who was obviously all bent out of shape because the anchor line
was tied off to the wreck (probably near her nest). My point is that
not feeding them is more natural than feeding them.
Dale
(I won't hold it against you to feed the birds unless you also sit in
the bushes with a BB gun).
Jason O'Rourke
Did I miss the part of the discussion that asked if Cheeze Whiz was toxic
to humans? (especially the spray can type). Perhaps I'm not very
adventurous, but I don't like to eat things with the word 'whiz' in them.
There must be better things to feed the fish. Even if these fish are
happy eating one's vomit.
Jason
PS: really crappy ocean today...anywhere from 5-15 feet on the Norcal coast.
--
Jason O'Rourke jas...@netcom.com
'96 BMW r850R
last dive: October 20, Breakwater (ugh) Monterey CA USA
63 minutes at 38 feet max, 3-15' viz.
Bill Burnett
>>
>Judy, in order to ensure that the cheeze wiz doesn't spoil, the
>manufacturers pack it full of preservatives which are un-digestible by
>fish who are use to digesting simple vegetative or animal matter. So,
>no, it probably doesn't provide them with any useful nutrients. On a
>graver note, these preservatives can often impact fish, thus giving them
>a bad case of constipation. We humans solve this problem by taking a
>laxative - fish don't have that option and often die. This same problem
>applies to frozen vegetables.
>
It's not just the things like highly processed dairy products that are
damaging to fish... Feeding fish *anything*, be it hard boiled eggs,
cheeze wiz, bits of bread, a broken up urchin, other fish etc. etc. etc.
disrupts the ecology of the area where feeding takes place. Okay, so an
occasional tidbit isn't going to do much harm... the problem is in areas
which are heavily dived and the fish are heavily fed. Not only aren't
those fish eating what their physiology is designed for, they're also not
doing their bit to control whatever it is that they normally eat...
Personally, I'd rather observe fish behaviour under as natural a set of
conditions as possible - you might not see quite such a flurry of
activity but what you do see will be infinitely more subtle and
rewarding.
I'm not going to tell anyone how to live their life or what they can and
can't do... so if you want to feed fish, then go ahead. However don't
carry on under the assumption that if you're feeding them something
that's "good" for them that you're not doing any harm. Think of it as
akin to feeding prekilled kudu to a pride of lions for the benefit of the
tourist trade... pretty tacky unless you like that kind of thing.
B.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Burnett: bb...@dml.ac.uk
Scottish Association for Marine Science
P.O. Box 3, Oban, Argyll, PA34 4AD.
Mike Sheppard
> >Judy, in order to ensure that the cheeze wiz doesn't spoil, the
> >manufacturers pack it full of preservatives which are un-digestible by
> >fish who are use to digesting simple vegetative or animal matter. So,
> >no, it probably doesn't provide them with any useful nutrients. On a
> >graver note, these preservatives can often impact fish, thus giving them
> >a bad case of constipation. We humans solve this problem by taking a
> >laxative - fish don't have that option and often die. This same problem
> >applies to frozen vegetables.
> >
>
> It's not just the things like highly processed dairy products that are
> damaging to fish... Feeding fish *anything*, be it hard boiled eggs,
> cheeze wiz, bits of bread, a broken up urchin, other fish etc. etc. etc.
> disrupts the ecology of the area where feeding takes place. Okay, so an
> occasional tidbit isn't going to do much harm... the problem is in areas
> which are heavily dived and the fish are heavily fed. Not only aren't
> those fish eating what their physiology is designed for, they're also not
> doing their bit to control whatever it is that they normally eat...
>
This poster is right.
The story that cheeze whiz is poisonous is a "sea story" concocted so
divers won't feed the fish.
Fish can eat both frozen veggies, cheeze whatever. The harmful effect is
that it changes there diet and inhibits their migration. Over time, this
is more deadly than the phony "poisonous cheeze" story is because the
whole natural balance of the fish in that area is upset. Not to mention
the fish that don't have anything to eat cause their dinners don't come to
se 'em anymore
Sea stories are bullshit stories designed to make you do something because
the truth isn't as exciting as the lie is.
Terry T. Kensler
> > Judy Fisher wrote:
> > I know a lot of people feed Cheeze Whiz to fish, Our instructor
> > later was told that it would kill the fish...Last night I was watching a special on the manatee die-off this year in
Florida. About the only thing that was not considered as a possible
cause was cheeze whiz. The experts ended up attributing it to red
tide, but who knows!?
sp...@sprynet.com
Bill Burnett <bb...@wpo.nerc.ac.uk> wrote:
How does all this relate to the fish feeding by fish coming to a
cleaning station. They are feeding the cleaners. This relationship
has been around for a long time. Of course they might be trying to
get the cheese wiz off.
Dale Firmin
Mike Sheppard wrote:
>
> The story that cheeze whiz is poisonous is a "sea story" concocted so
> divers won't feed the fish.
I explained before, lactase is an enzyme which breaks down lactose, milk
sugar, into glucose and galactose. Since only mammals drink milk, only
mammals have lactase. Humans who are genetically deficient in lactase
are called "lactose intolerant". If they drink milk or eat milk
products, they have diarrhea, abdominal pain and possibly vomiting. If
they eat a LOT of a milk product, they can get lactosemia, where the
lactose dangerously increases the osmotic pressure in the blood and can
lead to death. No, you are wrong. Feeding milk products to a fish in
small amounts will cause great discomfort to it later. They love the
taste of cheese. If a fish eats a lot of it, it can cause death.
Cheese kills fish. If you want to feed fish, go to a feed store and buy
Purina Trout Chow. (Yeah, I know that it sounds funny, but they really
do have Purina Trout Chow, and Monkey Chow, and Rodent Chow, and a bunch
of other Chows. Purina has been in the business of making well balanced
food for a very wide variety of animals for a long time. No, I don't
work for Purina.)
Dale, the "Trout Chow fish feeder"
A. Kimo Morris
>
> Fish can eat both frozen veggies, cheeze whatever. The harmful effect is
> that it changes there diet and inhibits their migration. Over time, this
> is more deadly than the phony "poisonous cheeze" story is because the
> whole natural balance of the fish in that area is upset. Not to mention
> the fish that don't have anything to eat cause their dinners don't come to
> se 'em anymore
Yes, you are right that feeding the fish disturbs their natural feeding
behavior, and perhaps cheeze wiz won't kill them directly (although I
still am suspicious that it does), but I think your remarks about veggies is
not true. The outer coating of many veggies (peas included) is a matrix of
cellulose (a complex of glucose). Glucose in this form in not
digestible by very many organisms. A few bacteria can do it, and many
of them live as gut symbionts in certain animals. This is why termites
can eat wood - their symbiotic bacteria digest the cellulose for them.
Also, ruminants (cows etc) also have gut symbionts that digest the
cellulose for their hosts. There are a select few fish that have these
gut symbionts, but most don't. Thus, it is very easy to impact reef
fish with cellulose rich veggies. They will die because of this
because they lack the gut symbionts. Incidentally, we omnivorous humans
benefit from having "fiber" in our diets, but we do not actually "digest"
the stuff. If you have further questions, contact Dr. Mark Hixon. He is a
world authority on reef fish community biology - hix...@bcc.orst.edu.
Kimo Morris
Oregon State U.
mor...@bcc.orst.edu
A. Kimo Morris
Good point. But it is still not quite related. If I understand your
statement correctly, you are equating divers with cheeze wiz to other
fish who would approach cleaning stations to get their parasites picked
off. But even in this situation, parasites provide a nutritional benefit
to the cleaner fish, and while some people in the news group say that
cheeze wiz is not harmful, and that it is just a myth, I suspect that the
cleaner fish are in no way benefiting from eating cheeze wiz - in fact, I
suspect that it is detremental. Does this address your point? If not,
sorry.
Mike Sheppard
Well Dale, ya got me.
I don't have any fish physiology and biochemisty data.
& I don't think you do either.
But all your knowlege posted here doesn't determine whether fish are
lactose intolerant or not. There have been any number of articles
published in dive mags, on the net & whereever by people with all kinds of
scientific credentials that there is no information whether Cheeze Wiz is
harmful to fish or not, but their best guess is that it can be easily
digested harmlessly by fish.
Another poster tried a "psuedo-science" post explaining to me why frozen
peas were so very harmful (directly) to fish.
That ain't the problem.
Don't feed 'em because it can hurt them in the long run. It upsets the
fish's migratory pattern and changes it's diet.
That's enough for me.
If you don't wanna feed 'em because you think you are giving 'em poison,
that's fine with me.
{removethist...@wizvax.net
In article <shepman-0411...@port149167.eos.net> she...@eos.net (Mike Sheppard) writes:
>Path: news.wizvax.net!usenet.logical.net!imci5!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!malgudi.oar.net!eos2.eos.net!port149167.eos.net!user
>From: she...@eos.net (Mike Sheppard)
>Newsgroups: rec.scuba
>Subject: Re: Cheeze Whiz toxic to fish?
>Date: 4 Nov 1996 15:08:47 GMT
>Organization: Exodus
>Lines: 52
>Message-ID: <shepman-0411...@port149167.eos.net>
>References: <fisher.263...@osu.edu> <Pine.SUN.3.91.96102...@ava.bcc.orst.edu> <552a99$2...@kwuz.nerc-keyworth.ac.uk> <shepman-3110...@port149057.eos.net> <3279D3...@mail.idt.net>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: port149167.eos.net
>In article <3279D3...@mail.idt.net>, dal...@mail.idt.net wrote:
>> Mike Sheppard wrote:
>> >
>> > The story that cheeze whiz is poisonous is a "sea story" concocted so
>> > divers won't feed the fish.
me.
>I don't have any fish physiology and biochemisty data.
>& I don't think you do either.
>But all your knowlege posted here doesn't determine whether fish are
>lactose intolerant or not. There have been any number of articles
>published in dive mags, on the net & whereever by people with all kinds of
>scientific credentials that there is no information whether Cheeze Wiz is
>harmful to fish or not, but their best guess is that it can be easily
>digested harmlessly by fish.
>Another poster tried a "psuedo-science" post explaining to me why frozen
>peas were so very harmful (directly) to fish.
>That ain't the problem.
>Don't feed 'em because it can hurt them in the long run. It upsets the
>fish's migratory pattern and changes it's diet.
>That's enough for me.
>If you don't wanna feed 'em because you think you are giving 'em poison,
>that's fine with me.
Alright, someone go to the pet store and drop a buck on a goldfish. Feed him
cheez wiz instead of fish food and see what happens, and how long it takes. If
he lives, then fish can eat it. If he floats, then case closed.
Andrew Pike
Wait a minute, I thought that Cheese Wizz was an simulated cheese and not
actually a dairy product?
Jean-Francois Mezei
Andrew Pike wrote:
>
> Wait a minute, I thought that Cheese Wizz was an simulated cheese and not
> actually a dairy product?
One more reason to avoid giving that stuff to any living being, fish
included.
If that stuff is harmful to humans, you should not feed it to animals.
Seawolf (C.D. Fleischer)
Andrew Pike wrote:
>
> Wait a minute, I thought that Cheese Wizz was an simulated cheese and not
> actually a dairy product?
I think that it, velveeta, and spam are all actually synthetic polymers
made by DuPont. Still doesn't mean it's good for fish -- I doubt it's
that good for humans either!! :)
Clay
--
C.D Fleischer Dive more. Work Less.
The views in his message reflect the personal views of Mr. Fleischer
and are in no way representative of Eli Lilly and Company or Technetics
Corporation of Indianapolis.
Scott Jaqua
In <3281E3...@lilly.com> "Seawolf (C.D. Fleischer)"
Ok- I'll do it. As of today, Clyde the goldfish is getting half
fish food, and half Cheese Whiz. (Which is a much higher percentage
than a fish would get in the "wild" from photographers and other fish
feeders) I'll let you know how he's doing in a month.
Sandra Jaqua
d...@cayman.org
On 8 Nov 1996 02:32:32 GMT, sja...@ix.netcom.com(Scott Jaqua)
wrote:
=> Ok- I'll do it. As of today, Clyde the goldfish is getting half
=>fish food, and half Cheese Whiz. (Which is a much higher percentage
=>than a fish would get in the "wild" from photographers and other fish
=>feeders) I'll let you know how he's doing in a month.
Hey Sandra:
Any possibilty we can get a "Whiz-cam" mounted on the
tank so we can all follow poor Clyde's demise? <g>
If you really want to simulate this kind of feeding, you
should let the half-empty can go free to float on the surface,
just like they do in real-life.
Please give my best wishes and hopes to Clyde.
Cheers,
- Don
------------------------------------------------------
mailto: <d...@cayman.org>
web-site: http://www.cayman.org/
Organizing your way to the Cayman Islands
Shane
On Mon, 4 Nov 1996 {removethistoreply}mf...@wizvax.net wrote:
> Alright, someone go to the pet store and drop a buck on a goldfish. Feed him
> cheez wiz instead of fish food and see what happens, and how long it takes. If
> he lives, then fish can eat it. If he floats, then case closed.
Oops...bad call...goldfish can handle just about anything (the
cockroaches of the ichthyological world, in that they'd probably be the
one species to weather a nuclear blast).
Shane
Shane
On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Dale Firmin wrote:
> Mike Sheppard wrote:
> >
> > The story that cheeze whiz is poisonous is a "sea story" concocted so
> > divers won't feed the fish.
> And where do you get your fish physiology and biochemisty data from? As
> I explained before, lactase is an enzyme which breaks down lactose, milk
> sugar, into glucose and galactose. Since only mammals drink milk, only
> mammals have lactase. Humans who are genetically deficient in lactase
> are called "lactose intolerant". If they drink milk or eat milk
> products, they have diarrhea, abdominal pain and possibly vomiting. If
> they eat a LOT of a milk product, they can get lactosemia, where the
> lactose dangerously increases the osmotic pressure in the blood and can
> lead to death. No, you are wrong. Feeding milk products to a fish in
> small amounts will cause great discomfort to it later. They love the
> taste of cheese. If a fish eats a lot of it, it can cause death.
> Cheese kills fish.
<snip>
Lactose intolerance makes sense (why do they need the enzyme if it's
never been necessary in their environment?) but there's the added factor
that feeding fishes this garbage staiates them, reduces their appetite,
and they could potentially starve to death or, at least, weaken...and
the way things work on the reef, they're barracuda chow soon after they
begin to flag.
There's no excuse these days to feed fishes...sharks included...for our
amusement, or for lazy photographers. It can't be defended under the
oft-invoked "oh, but it's educational" clause or any other.
Shane
Shane
Yes, it is...
Shane
Terry Lee May
In <Pine.SUN.3.90.961112...@cellmate.cb.uga.edu> Shane
<spa...@cellmate.cb.uga.edu> writes:
>Lactose intolerance makes sense (why do they need the enzyme if it's
>never been necessary in their environment?) but there's the added
>factor that feeding fishes this garbage staiates them, reduces their
>appetite, and they could potentially starve to death or, at least,
>weaken...and the way things work on the reef, they're barracuda chow
>soon after they begin to flag.
>
>There's no excuse these days to feed fishes...sharks included...for
>our amusement, or for lazy photographers. It can't be defended under
>the oft-invoked "oh, but it's educational" clause or any other.
>
> Shane
Way back when, when I made the mistake of taking a PADI ADV course, the
instructor used frozen peas to create interaction between the students
and the garibaldi. The garibaldi ate the peas and the "ADV" students
racked up points toward U/W Naturalist and U/W Photographer specialties
at a $ chunk per each.
FWIW, I have taken a can of cheese wiz to depth in an attempt to feed
fish. My buddy and I took two cans, one American, the other Cheddar
(he wanted to see which the fish preferred better. Why? I have no
idea).
It was very difficult for the cheese material to even come out of the 1
atm pressurized can at 3 atm; the pressure forcing the wiz to come out
was less than the ambient pressure of the 3 atm of depth holding it in.
even when I was able to get some wiz out, the 30 fish I was planning
to feed (in this case, sheepshead, senioritas, blacksmiths, kelp and
sand bass) could care less of the stuff and left it alone. I suppose
the wiz was eventually forgings for the rock crabs and sea hares.
However, something that a can of wiz does do at depth is shoot up to
the surface like a rocket if you miss handing your buddy the can after
your experiment (Ian had butter-fingered gloves).
Don't worry, the can was recovered.
T.MAY
LA SAT TECH/KEYSTONE Facility Director
www.netcom.com/~tleemay/
www.keystonecom.com
Nanci LeVake
Mark Fitzgerald <MF...@logical.net> wrote:
>Yeah, but if the issue is, can a fish metabolize dairy products, it
>should do nicely.
So what makes you guys think that even if Clyde the goldfish can't
digest or metabolize CheezWhiz it's going to kill him? Who's to say
it won't just pass harmlessly through him? Isn't that what happens
with chewing gum and fingernails in humans? (Even though that's not
what our mothers told us would happen...)
Dive!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<@
( )< Nanci LeVake
^ ^
nle...@pipeline.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark Fitzgerald
The Hermit
Nanci LeVake wrote:
>
> Mark Fitzgerald <MF...@logical.net> wrote:
>
> >Yeah, but if the issue is, can a fish metabolize dairy products, it
> >should do nicely.
>
> digest or metabolize CheezWhiz it's going to kill him? Who's to say
> it won't just pass harmlessly through him? Isn't that what happens
> with chewing gum and fingernails in humans? (Even though that's not
> what our mothers told us would happen...)
>
> Dive!!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> <@
> ( )< Nanci LeVake
> ^ ^
> nle...@pipeline.com
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How is Clyde doing?? Haven't heard. :)
Scott Jaqua
In <328D0A...@logical.net> Mark Fitzgerald <MF...@logical.net>
writes:
>Shane wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 4 Nov 1996 {removethistoreply}mf...@wizvax.net wrote:
>>
>> > Alright, someone go to the pet store and drop a buck on a
goldfish. Feed him
>> > cheez wiz instead of fish food and see what happens, and how long
it takes. If
>> > he lives, then fish can eat it. If he floats, then case closed.
>>
>> Oops...bad call...goldfish can handle just about anything (the
>> cockroaches of the ichthyological world, in that they'd probably be
the
>> one species to weather a nuclear blast).
>>
>>
Shane
>
>
>should do nicely.
Clyde is still alive and growing. A friend of mine took care of
him/her while we were in Coz this week, and he still seems to have no
ill effects from the Cheese Whiz.
Sandra Jaqua
Scott Jaqua
In <328D62...@sjm.infi.net> The Hermit <her...@sjm.infi.net>
writes:
>> >should do nicely.
>>
>> digest or metabolize CheezWhiz it's going to kill him? Who's to say
>> it won't just pass harmlessly through him? Isn't that what happens
>> with chewing gum and fingernails in humans? (Even though that's not
>> what our mothers told us would happen...)
>>
>> Dive!!
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> <@
>> ( )< Nanci LeVake
>> ^ ^
>> nle...@pipeline.com
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>How is Clyde doing?? Haven't heard. :)
Clyde's doing just swimmingly. I took him to a friend's house while
my husband and I went to Cozumel. He KNOWS what that can is for, and
happily sucks at the tip when he sees it. I'm raising a junk food
junkie!
Sandra Jaqua
Bernardo
artna...@aol.com wrote:
>
> How is cheese Whiz toxic to fish?
although fish love cheese whiz, I understand they are unable to digest
the fats that are contained in the whiz. I've used frozen peas myself
they seem to like it and its a little easier on their waistlines.
Jean-Martin Lapointe
On 29 Nov 1996 artna...@aol.com wrote:
> How is cheese Whiz toxic to fish?
Isn't it toxic to all life forms ?
artna...@aol.com
Scott Jaqua
In <329E5A...@ix.netcom.com> Bernardo <mpe...@ix.netcom.com>
writes:
>the fats that are contained in the whiz. I've used frozen peas myself
>they seem to like it and its a little easier on their waistlines.
Clyde the goldfish has been living on a diet of about 1/2 cheese
whiz since the beginning of this month. So far, he seems to have
suffered no ill effects, unless you consider growing and sucking on the
tip of the can ill effects.
Sandra Jaqua
ConnaC
Bernardo <mpe...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> artna...@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > How is cheese Whiz toxic to fish?
> although fish love cheese whiz, I understand they are unable to digest
> the fats that are contained in the whiz. I've used frozen peas myself
> they seem to like it and its a little easier on their waistlines.
We just did this thread not more than a month ago. Last time
we got to the point of people having fish in aquariams and
feeding them cheez whiz without harming them.
Go back and look at all the posts. Matter of fact, when
you join a newsgroup and start reading old posts, make
sure you read all the old answers first before posting.
This is netiquette. The answer to "How is cheez Whiz toxic
to fish?" is already posted.
{removethist...@wizvax.net
>artna...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> How is cheese Whiz toxic to fish?
>although fish love cheese whiz, I understand they are unable to digest
>the fats that are contained in the whiz. I've used frozen peas myself
>they seem to like it and its a little easier on their waistlines.
We've got us a little experiment going....a goldfish named clyde has agreed to
eat half fish food and half cheez whiz. Last I heard, he was doing well -
growing, actually. Do we have a status?
Dale Firmin
Scott Jaqua wrote:
>
> Clyde the goldfish has been living on a diet of about 1/2 cheese
> whiz since the beginning of this month. So far, he seems to have
> suffered no ill effects, unless you consider growing and sucking on the
> tip of the can ill effects.
> Sandra Jaqua
Thank you for the experiment and I bow to your research and will no
longer complain about feeding cheese to fish. But as someone else
humorously pointed out--"Is Cheeze Whiz cheese?" I have feed fish
cheese long ago before reading horror stories and used to carry the
aerosol cans of cheese spread. It's easier to bring underwater and less
messy.
Dale
Chuck Narad
In article <57m2jp$c...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, sja...@ix.netcom.com writes:
>
> Clyde the goldfish has been living on a diet of about 1/2 cheese
> whiz since the beginning of this month. So far, he seems to have
> suffered no ill effects, unless you consider growing and sucking on the
> tip of the can ill effects.
funny, people who eat the stuff often suffer the same effects! :-)
I still stand by my statement that feeding fish changes their natural
behaviour and might tend to make them less wary of strange things
that might want to eat them.
c/
--------------------------------------------------------------------
| Chuck Narad -- diver/adventurer/engineer |
| |
| "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. And today? |
| Today is a gift. That's why we call it The Present." |
| - Babatunde Olatunji |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
{removethist...@wizvax.net
>> Clyde the goldfish has been living on a diet of about 1/2 cheese
>> whiz since the beginning of this month. So far, he seems to have
>> suffered no ill effects, unless you consider growing and sucking on the
>> tip of the can ill effects.
>funny, people who eat the stuff often suffer the same effects! :-)
>I still stand by my statement that feeding fish changes their natural
>behaviour and might tend to make them less wary of strange things
>that might want to eat them.
Sucking on the tip of the can is the best part! I think you're right - but
only about it upsetting the natural scheme of things...I think a fish that
learned that divers=food learned it the same way they learned barracuda=being
food.
Marcel Cossais
Right you are Chuck.
I remember the second time I went to Provo, we were instructed not to feed
the fish for that same reason. I also read that a pet grouper (elsewhere)
who came for feeding, suddenly disappeared one day, never to reappear. It's
the same for all wild animals. They have to fend for themselves and learn
to do so. Giving them food, not only disturbs their natural feeding habits,
it also gives them bad habits. The only occasion I know for feeding wild
animals is in certain parks, by the hands of park rangers.
Marcel
___________________
Marcel Cossais
MC Communication
mcos...@synapse.net
Chuck Narad <na...@nudibranch.asd.sgi.com> wrote in article
<57vafh$n...@fido.asd.sgi.com>...
> I still stand by my statement that feeding fish changes their natural
> behaviour and might tend to make them less wary of strange things
> that might want to eat them.
>
Scott Jaqua
In <{removethistoreply}mfitz.587...@wizvax.net>
Sorry- went to Cozumel, came back, got a terrible cold and ear
infection, then went to Arizona for my brother's wedding. (Coz trip
report hopefully written and posted this week.) Clyde is fine. Doing
well for a "feeder" goldfish. (Usually they die from the over crowding
in the store's fish tank, or from being fed to something bigger) He
recognises the tip of the can, and sucks onto it. Sometimes to the
point of me being able to haul his body clear of the water. (I wonder
if he learned that from me. Why bother with a cracker when you can
inject cholesterol directly into your system? Kind of like what we all
do but won't admit to doing with the whipped cream can.) He gets fed
about 1/2 commercial fish food, and 1/2 artificial cheese food. Give or
take a squirt.
Sandra Jaqua
Kim Dyer
>I still stand by my statement that feeding fish changes their natural
>behaviour and might tend to make them less wary of strange things
>that might want to eat them.
So does, for that matter, having a big swimming thing that ignores
you wandering around your reef.