USD Conshelf SE-2 Regulator - Good or Bad?
Reggie Campos
USD Conshelf SE-2 regulator, but I have heard they have been recalled
in the past. Are they safe to use now. My hope is that USD
initiated a recall when other companies wouldn't have. A recall in
this fashion would indicate to me a commitment to quality and not
disregard towards customer safety. Let me know what you think.
Thanks,
RC
Dave Lowell
That is exactly what I've heard regarding USD's recalls (from my local
dive store who sells USD, as well as several other common brands). They
have initiated recalls of products more frequently than other companies,
despite the effect on their reputation, simply because they have a lower
recall threshold and higher safety standards.
Again, this was from a USD authorized dealer, so their opinion may
be biased. In addition to USD they also sell, Sherwood, SeaQuest, and
Oceanic equipment so they're not forced to back USD because they don't
carry other good brands.
BTW, a good friend of mine has the USD SE-2, and loves it. I've
tried it and it breathes really well (much better than the Mares,
Sherwood, and SeaQuest regulators I've tried in the same price range). It
also has a really rugged and simple design that I like a lot. My friend
got it on sale for $150, which made it about the best price/performance
out there...
Dave
------------------------------------
Dave Lowell low...@sdsc.edu [\]
------------------------------------
GriGris
Lowell <low...@sdsc.edu> writes:
> On the suggestion of a friend I am considering the purchase of a
> USD Conshelf SE-2 regulator, but I have heard they have been recalled
> in the past. Are they safe to use now. My hope is that USD
> initiated a recall when other companies wouldn't have. A recall in
> this fashion would indicate to me a commitment to quality and not
> disregard towards customer safety. Let me know what you think.
> Theyhave initiated recalls of products more frequently than other
companies,
>despite the effect on their reputation, simply because they have a lower
>recall threshold and higher safety standards.
>BTW, a good friend of mine has the USD SE-2, and loves it. I've
>tried it and it breathes really well (much better than the Mares,
>Sherwood, and SeaQuest regulators I've tried in the same price range).
My $.02 worth, I have had a USD SE-2 for four or five years, I LOVE IT.
yes I have brought it back for recalls, one was to check for a problem in
the first stage (mine was o.k.) the second was for cracks in the plastic
of the main shell. I thought I had looked at it carefully, and it was
o.k. NOT. My dive shop checked it and said they could see some finer
than hairline cracks. They replaced the second stage.
As far as breathability, I agree. I also have a Mares (on my octopus).
Breathing on the conshelf is like being on the surface, not only when head
up, but when drift diving upside down.!
I am happy with USD.
Bill Laznovsky
>From: rca...@su1b.ess.harris.com (Reggie Campos)
>Subject: USD Conshelf SE-2 Regulator - Good or Bad?
>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 16:49:59 GMT
I've owned this reg for years and had it recalled once for a hairline crack
you could barely see in the housing of the 2d stage. Never had a problem
with it...it's performed flawlessly for over 100 dives. You can't go wrong.
Tom Rettie
Reggie Campos was heard to exclaim...
RC> On the suggestion of a friend I am considering the purchase of a USD
RC> Conshelf SE-2 regulator, but I have heard they have been recalled in
RC> the past. Are they safe to use now. My hope is that USD initiated a
RC> recall when other companies wouldn't have. A recall in this fashion
RC> would indicate to me a commitment to quality and not disregard
RC> towards customer safety. Let me know what you think.
USD has had three recalls in about as many years. The Micra was recalled
immediately after it was released. The Conshelfs were recalled because of
cracking in the second stage housings (a materials problem). More recently,
the Arctic has been recalled because of a design problem which can allow
the adjustment screw to close all the way.
My impression of USD is that they do some things very well (I think the
Monitor is a very good computer), and some things not so well (quality control
on their regs for one). Personally, I've switched to Sherwood regs, which I
find
very simple and reliable.
Barry J Grundy
>Returning from another exciting undersea adventure,
>Reggie Campos was heard to exclaim...
>
> RC> On the suggestion of a friend I am considering the purchase of a USD
> RC> Conshelf SE-2 regulator, but I have heard they have been recalled in
> RC> the past. Are they safe to use now. My hope is that USD initiated a
> RC> recall when other companies wouldn't have. A recall in this fashion
> RC> would indicate to me a commitment to quality and not disregard
> RC> towards customer safety. Let me know what you think.
>
I have been using an SE2 for a couple of years now. I purchased it
overseas and had to take it in b/c of a recall upon my return to the
states. Although that was disappointing, IMHO USD handled the recall
well I have remained satisfied since.
BTW, I learned to dive at the Navy school in Panama City (Marine, not
Squid :-) We used USD Conshelf XIV regulators. They were ancient, but
having been properly maintained, they performed without a hitch. This
*should* be true of any regulator on the market today.
>USD has had three recalls in about as many years. The Micra was recalled
>immediately after it was released. The Conshelfs were recalled because of
>cracking in the second stage housings (a materials problem). More recently,
>the Arctic has been recalled because of a design problem which can allow
>the adjustment screw to close all the way.
>
Do these recalls include the one involving the high pressure seat? (or
am I confused?)
>My impression of USD is that they do some things very well (I think the
>Monitor is a very good computer), and some things not so well (quality control
>on their regs for one). Personally, I've switched to Sherwood regs, which I
>find
>very simple and reliable.
>
I like USD regulators, probably because of my military experience. I
trust them, but in all honesty I am keeping my eyes and ears open to new
ideas. Keep in mind that the type of diving you do is an important
consideration. I gave my sister a Sherwood reg because she is a marine
biologist and works on a boat where proper maintenance is difficult. The
simple Sherwood piston is more receptive to abuse, but might not perform
as well at depth. If 90% of your dives are on 20-30 ft. reefs, it's a
no brainer. Application is important.
good luck
--
* Barry J. Grundy INTERNET: r3...@dax.cc.uakron.edu *
* C-SERVE: 74733...@compuserve.com *
* "Not with a bang, but a whimper... I'm outta here, Jack!" *
Russ Poole
>Subject: USD Conshelf SE-2 Regulator - Good or Bad?
>Returning from another exciting undersea adventure,
>Reggie Campos was heard to exclaim...
> RC> On the suggestion of a friend I am considering the purchase of a USD
> RC> Conshelf SE-2 regulator, but I have heard they have been recalled in
> RC> the past. Are they safe to use now. My hope is that USD initiated a
> RC> recall when other companies wouldn't have. A recall in this fashion
> RC> would indicate to me a commitment to quality and not disregard
> RC> towards customer safety. Let me know what you think.
>USD has had three recalls in about as many years. The Micra was recalled
>immediately after it was released. The Conshelfs were recalled because of
>cracking in the second stage housings (a materials problem). More recently,
>the Arctic has been recalled because of a design problem which can allow
>the adjustment screw to close all the way.
Well, the problem with the cracking of the housing wasn't that big of a
problem and did not affect the performance of the regulator. The recall made
on the arctic was a necessity that any GOOD company would have made. US
Divers has conducted themselves responsibly with their recalls. Furthermore,
as an engineer, I can empathize with the "design problem", as you call it,
since many times a problem cannot be recognized until the product has seen a
good amount of use. In my opinion, this is no reason to switch brands.
>My impression of USD is that they do some things very well (I think the
>Monitor is a very good computer), and some things not so well (quality control
>on their regs for one). Personally, I've switched to Sherwood regs, which I
>find
>very simple and reliable.
Let us not confuse quality control with a design flaw. Quality control
conducted itself correctly when it recalled the regulators. Furthermore, USD
repaired all the regulators at no charge to the consumer. AND Finally, IN my
Opinion, Sherwood regulators (to put it bluntly) aren't worth the paper they
were designed on. Three times I have used Sherwood regulators, and three times
I have had complete regulator failures. I Use USD and Scubapro regulators in
extremely technical areas of diving, and have yet to have a problem with
either brand.
RJP3 E-mail rjp...@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu
Tom Rettie
BJ> I have been using an SE2 for a couple of years now. I purchased it
BJ> overseas and had to take it in b/c of a recall upon my return to the
BJ> states. Although that was disappointing, IMHO USD handled the recall
BJ> well I have remained satisfied since.
> USD has had three recalls in about as many years. The Micra was
> recalled immediately after it was released. The Conshelfs were recalled
> because of cracking in the second stage housings (a materials problem).
> More recently, the Arctic has been recalled because of a design problem
> which can allow the adjustment screw to close all the way.
>
BJ> Do these recalls include the one involving the high pressure seat?
BJ> (or am I confused?)
The Micra recall may have had something to do with the HP seat, I didn't
really get the details on that one. I did have the HP seat blow on my
Conshelf 21 just a week after returning from a liveaboard. I was _very_
glad it didn't blow while on my trip.
> My impression of USD is that they do some things very well (I think the
> Monitor is a very good computer), and some things not so well (quality
> control on their regs for one). Personally, I've switched to Sherwood
> regs, which I find very simple and reliable.
>
BJ> I like USD regulators, probably because of my military experience. I
BJ> trust them, but in all honesty I am keeping my eyes and ears open to
BJ> new ideas. Keep in mind that the type of diving you do is an
BJ> important consideration. I gave my sister a Sherwood reg because she
BJ> is a marine biologist and works on a boat where proper maintenance is
BJ> difficult. The simple Sherwood piston is more receptive to abuse, but
BJ> might not perform as well at depth. If 90% of your dives are on 20-30
BJ> ft. reefs, it's a no brainer. Application is important.
I've routinely used my Sherwood to 100+ fsw, and it breathes wonderfully,
never freeflows (even in low 40s temps), and generally behaves like a champ.
I've still got a Conshelf 21, which also does duty on my pony bottle. Again,
my primary concern with USD is quality control. From what I understand, they
contract out a lot of the actual manufacturing and parts, and have had
problems
with bad batches and trouble tracking which parts went into which serial
numbers.
I also found some minor problems with my USD BC, which meant sending it back
to
the factory for restitching of the seams.
Like you, I'm always receptive to new ideas.
Martin Schuessler
Another one of those. ALL companies have problems, at least USD notifies you
right away, no matter how insignificant the problem. My wife has an SE2 and
I have a Select, none of which had problems. There were probably a very few
regulators with the problems mentioned, but at least USD notified everyone
to have it checked out.
Yeah, I guess I'd rather not find out before something happens. That way
at least I'll think everything is OK and can sue the manufacturer later.
Martin Schuessler
PADI DM-59146
Tom Rettie
> heard to exclaim...
>
> USD has had three recalls in about as many years. The Micra was
> recalled immediately after it was released. The Conshelfs were recalled
> because of cracking in the second stage housings (a materials problem).
> More recently, the Arctic has been recalled because of a design problem
> which can allow the adjustment screw to close all the way.
>
> My impression of USD is that they do some things very well (I think the
> Monitor is a very good computer), and some things not so well (quality
> control on their regs for one). Personally, I've switched to Sherwood
> regs, which I find very simple and reliable.
>
MS> notifies you right away, no matter how insignificant the problem. My
MS> wife has an SE2 and I have a Select, none of which had problems. There
MS> were probably a very few regulators with the problems mentioned, but
MS> at least USD notified everyone to have it checked out.
Well, I wouldn't exactly call the problems insignificant. The current ARCTIC
recall is for a design flaw that even according to USD's paid advertising
has the potential to no-sh*t kill you (the reg will fail _closed_).
MS> Yeah, I guess I'd rather not find out before something happens. That
MS> way at least I'll think everything is OK and can sue the manufacturer
MS> later.
Oh, I definitely want to hear about problems right away, but I'd rather they
improved their quality control process and vendor selection so they didn't
have these problems as often, and could track bad parts batches like the
cracked housings to the specific serial #s which they do affect, rather than
making owners bring in every blessed one of 'em whether they need to or not.
As it is USD tends to be a "premium" brand, charging a bit more for the
Cousteau name and supposedly for superior quality. Three recalls in three
years is a statistic that any manufacturer should be worried about.
Scott
questioning the curent safety of U.S. Divers's SE-2 regulator.]
If you're having your regulator serviced by a reliable dive shop (and you're
doing what every good diver should: have it checked at least annually, taking
advantage of USD's "lifetime to original-owner-with-check-up" free parts
replacement warranty), you should have gotten the full story on this: USD is
no longer making the defective part in the same way and has not done so for
several years now. All dealers were instructed (a *long* time ago!) to return
any possibly-defective stock and to extend as much assistance as possible to
USD's effort to locate and fix units already in the field. I, personally, got
about 4 separate mailed notices over a 1-1/2 year period, so I cannot fault USD
for not trying to remedy an unfortunate design error. Of course, if you didn't
send in your warranty registration card, or you haven't taken your regulator to
an authorized service station in about three years (it's been almost that long
since the recall program started), then I guess it's your problem. No manu-
facturer is perfect, and I think that knocking USD over this is generally
unwarranted. By now, no USD regulator sold by an authorized dealer should be
one of the defective ones.
--
Scott Marovich Hewlett-Packard Laboratories M/S 1U15
Internet: maro...@hpl.hp.com P.O. Box 10490 (1501 Page Mill Road)
HP-DESK: Scott_Marovich/1900/UX Palo Alto CA 94303-0971 U.S.A.
HP TELNET 857-2998 (415)857-2998
Tom
: On the suggestion of a friend I am considering the purchase of a
: Thanks,
: RC
I was told by the tech who replace my high pressure seat that U.S. Divers
had changed material in their seats. It seams in these days of Mega
Corporations some bean counter decides that by switching materials USD can
save $.02 per regulator. If you sell millions of regulators over the years
this can add up. If a few people die, oh well.
Why is it that the older USD regulators never seem to be recalled.
Could it be that they were made better. Maybe Jacque Cousteau had a
personal interest in quality control when HE was still diving.
Don't get me wrong. The regulator work fantastic. But the recalls are VERY
disturbing to me. I would rather have a company charge and extra buck for a
regulator made of the best stuff on earth.
My life is worth an extra buck. How about yours?
Tom
Tom Rettie
..snip..
SM> USD is no longer making
SM> the defective part in the same way and has not done so for several
SM> years now. All dealers were instructed (a *long* time ago!) to return
SM> any possibly-defective stock and to extend as much assistance as
SM> possible to USD's effort to locate and fix units already in the field.
SM> ..snip..
SM> No manufacturer is perfect, and I think that knocking USD
SM> over this is generally unwarranted. By now, no USD regulator sold by
SM> an authorized dealer should be one of the defective ones.
Scott:
I think you may have missed the _current_ recall on USD Arctic regulators.
This recall concerns a ribbed plug in the second stage which can come loose,
lowering the second-stage lever and resulting in difficult breathing or
"shut off of the air supply to the diver. If this occurs during a dive,
use of the product could be hazardous, resulting in death, or injury"
(USD current recall notice). Given that in the past three years, USD has
had to recall the Micra (design flaw), the Conshelfs (cracked cases and
bad HP seals), and now the ARCTIC, I'd say that there is legitmate reason
to be concerned about USD's quality control in their regulators.
SCUBUS
Rettie) writes:
"Given that in the past three years, USD has
had to recall the Micra (design flaw), the Conshelfs (cracked cases and
bad HP seals), and now the ARCTIC, I'd say that there is legitmate reason
to be concerned about USD's quality control in their regulators."
The problems have been most confined to the composite of the second stage.
The cracks reported on US Divers regs were often traced back to over
torque on the fittings. The box on the Artic and Conshelf/SE2/SEA are
all virtually identical. Obviously US Divers wants us to have as perfect
a product as is possible. So there solution is to fix it.
The HP seats were the same ones used in a lot of regulators by a number of
other manufacturers - and were "suspect" not proven to be bad (except for
the few instances that prompted the recall). None of the other brands put
forth the publicity that US Divers put into their efforts.
There was not a "design flaw" with the micra. There were a few simpletons
out there that kept pulling the mouthpiece off, so a cable tie was added
so it wouldn't come off.
Lest we forget:
SeaQuest has issued a total recall of their product in recent months
ScubaPro has been been subject to recalls
Dacor has sent one out
as have others. (Sherwood, Mares)
The change from solid brass to the newer materials has created some
engineering problems for almost every regulator manufacturer. I find it
admirable that these people are recalling products, and spending tons of
money to publicize and fix problems which may be potentially hazardous.
It's not a question of saving 2 cents on a regulator.
jbul...@uoguelph.ca
-hh
>
> does anyone know where I can get replacement housings for the
> conshelf se2 supreme. I have the cracks in mine
-hh