Scouting and the Martial Arts
Dakin Burdick
these days. Has anyone heard of a troop that either practices the
martial arts or is connected with a martial arts program?
Jack W. Weinmann
The last I heard of this topic was that the BSA forbids advocating martial
arts in any way, shape or form.
Since I have never heard anything to the contrary of this, I believe that
this is still the rule. Check with your local council, but I believe that
they will echo what I have just stated.
I'm not against martial arts, but I believe that the BSA is concerned that
this is something that could either lead to injuries which would reflect on
their insurance status (with lawsuits following close behind) or that
martial arts can also be used as an offense, as opposed to the defense that
it is supposed to be.
- Jack W. Weinmann bk...@cleveland.freenet.edu -
Kevin D Colagio
as of March 29, 1992. This is by no means an exhaustive list, but I tried.
Definitions are taken directly from "The Random House College Dictionary"
and is taken without permission (I figure education is worth the chance...)
Feel free to respond, or add words to the list, flames hit the trash
device. I have also included words that are used in definitions that could
cause trouble in the future. This will hopefully, but not always prevent
future argument. Full definitions are listed excluding pronounciation, and
word origin. Typos are mine, no one else can have them....
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
MORAL adjective;
1) of, pertaining to, or concerned with the right conduct or its
principles.
2) being in accordance with such principles.
3) conforming to these principles rather than law, custom, etc. : a moral
obligation.
4) expressing such principles, as a literary work.
5) capable of recognizing an conforming to such principles : Man is a moral
being.
6) behaving accoring to such principles; not immoral or amoral.
7) virtuous in sexual matters, chaste.
8) of, pertaining to, or acting on the mind : moral support.
9) depending on what is observed, as of human nature, rather than upon
factual evidence : moral evidence.
10) the moral teachingg or practical lesson contained in a story or
experience.
synonym for definition 6
upright, honest, virtuous, honorable.
synonym for definition 11
standards, morals.
Morals, Ethics refer to rules and standars of conduct and practice.
Morals refer to generally accepted of conduct and right living in a
society, and to the individuals practice in ralation to these : the morals
of our civilization.
Ethics implies high standards of honest and honorable dealing, and the
meathods used especially in the professions or in business : ethnics of the
medical profession.
MORALS noun;
principles or habits with respect to right and wrong conduct.
VIRTUOUS adjective
1) conforming to moral and ethical princeples; morally excellent; upright.
2) chaste, as a person.
3) /archaic/ able to produce effects, potent.
REVERENT adjective
feeling, exhibiting, or characterized by reverence, deeply respectful : a
reverent greeting.
REVERENCE noun, verb
1) a feeling or attitude of deep respect tinged with awe, veneration.
2) the outward manifestation of this feelingg : to pay reverence.
3) a gesture indicative of deep respect; an obeisance, bow, or curtsy.
4) the state of being revered
5) (usually capitalized) a title used in addressing or mentioning clergymen
(usually proceded with /your/ or /his/).
6) to regard or treat with reverence; venerate.
VENERATE verb
to regard or treat with reverance; revere.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
- Kevin Colagio...student at large - I am looking - In Gods we trust, =
= aka = for something - All others pay cash. -
- KDC...@cs.rit.edu - to put here. - -Vladimir Taltos =
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Kevin D Colagio
In a previous article, burd...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) says:
>I hear that Scouting is becoming more associated with sports programs
>these days. Has anyone heard of a troop that either practices the
>martial arts or is connected with a martial arts program?
arts in any way, shape or form.
Since I have never heard anything to the contrary of this, I believe that
this is still the rule. Check with your local council, but I believe that
they will echo what I have just stated.
I'm not against martial arts, but I believe that the BSA is concerned that
this is something that could either lead to injuries which would reflect on
their insurance status (with lawsuits following close behind) or that
martial arts can also be used as an offense, as opposed to the defense that
it is supposed to be.
- Jack W. Weinmann bk...@cleveland.freenet.edu -
Could someone let me know if this is the policy when you fin out? Any
input on this from other countries?
Stuart Fell
boys' gold citizen achievement badge, they have too either communicate with
another scout or youth from another geographic region or participate in a home
hospitality program. Since the home hospitality program is awkward to
arrange unless the boys are at a jamboree, we opted to do the communication
option.
The badge requirement is stated as: Communicate with a scout or youth from
another geographic region of Canada or the world for at least three times over
at least six months. Your communication media can include: letter, telephone,
facsimile, short wave radio, computer, etc.
I think it would be more interesting for the boys to correspond with
another group from another country, but would certainly be open to scouts
from another part of canada.
For any interested scouters/boys, you can contact me via email at:
stu...@uvvm.uvic.ca or
fe...@uvvm.uvic.ca
My mailing address is:
Stuart Fell
2175 Cadboro Bay Road
Victoria, BC
V8R 5G8
Canada
William Mayne
>
>
>I'm not against martial arts, but I believe that the BSA is concerned that
>this is something that could either lead to injuries which would reflect on
>their insurance status (with lawsuits following close behind) or that
>martial arts can also be used as an offense, as opposed to the defense that
>it is supposed to be.
Regarding insurance status, I doubt that the risk of injury in a well
disciplined martial arts program is any worse than in some other
activities which are sanctioned by the BSA. I believe that taking some
calculated risks is necessary.
I am not into martial arts, but I have been around it enough to know
that there are some good programs for children of all ages, outside of
scouting, which teach discipline and ethics along with martial arts.
It isn't necessary for the BSA to do it, though I see no harm in it.
If martial arts is your interest it would be easier to satisfy that
interest elsewhere than to try to change the BSA.
Regarding the possiblility of using martial arts for offense as opposed
to defense, this could be applied to training in the use of fire arms
and marksmanship, which was available at camp when I was a scout.
Bill Mayne
Dan Kary
> I hear that Scouting is becoming more associated with sports programs
> these days. Has anyone heard of a troop that either practices the
> martial arts or is connected with a martial arts program?
>
From "Troop Committee Guidebook", pp 67-68 copyright 1990 Boy Scouts of America
Irving, TX, ISBN 0-8395-6505-4, Order No. 6505C ($2.35, 72 pages)
R e s t r i c t e d A c t i v i t i e s
Because of legal considerations and potential danger to participants,
the following activities have been declared as unauthorized and restricted
by the Boy Scouts of America:
o All-terain vehicles (ATVs) are banned from program use. ATVs are defined
as motorized recreational cycles with three or four large soft tires,
designed for off-road use on a variety of terrains.
o Boxing, Karate and related martial arts are not authorized activities.
o Chainsaws and mechanical log splitters may only be authorized for use by
trained individuals who are over the age of 18, using proper protective
gear in accordance with local laws.
o Exploration of abandoned mines is an unauthorized activity.
o Varsity football teams and interscholastic or club football competition
and activities are unauthorized activities.
o Councils may not authorize any group acting for or on behalf of its members,
units, or districts to sell fireworks as a fundraising or money-earning
activity.
o General aviation - hang gliding, microlite and ultralight flying,
experimental aircraft flying, parachuting, hot-air ballooning, and power
aircraft inflight training are prohibited.
o Motorized speed events with potential hazard for participants, including
motorcycles, boats, drag racing, demolition derbies, and related events,
are not authorized.
o Participation in amateur or professional rodeo events and council or
district sponsorship of rodeos are prohibited.
o The activity commonly referred to as "war games" - where individuals
shoot paint dye at one another - is an unauthorized activity.
S m o k i n g a n d D r i n k i n g
It is the policy of the Boy Scouts of America that the use of alcoholic
beverages and controlled substances is not permitted at encampments or
activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or
at anyactivity involving participation of youth members.
Health is a most valuable possession. Smoking will dangerously impair
a person's health. BSA recommends that leaders maintain the attitude that
young adults are much better off without tobacco. Leaders are encouraged not
to use tobacco products in any form nor allow their use at any BSA activity.
H a z i n g
Older Scouts sometimes feel that new Scouts should be initiated into the
troop with a hazing actifity. Hazing and initiations have no place in Scouting
and are prohibited.
Y o u t h P r o t e c t i o n T r a i n i n g
BSA offers a training program for adults that explores the various forms
of child abuse. Using a video presentation and discussion guide, the causes,
signs, and proper response to and reporting of child abuse incidents are
explained in detail. For the protection of yourself, as a leader, and the boys
in your troop, every adult associated with the troop, including merit badge
counselors, should attend this seminar. To participate in Youth Protection
training, contact your local council district executive for the next training
session.
------
I guess everything else is OK :-). The obvious pitfall of trying to make
a list of things not to do.
Dan Kary
Kookaburra
>I hear that Scouting is becoming more associated with sports programs
>these days. Has anyone heard of a troop that either practices the
>martial arts or is connected with a martial arts program?
As a Girl Scout leader, I do not see incorporation of martial arts
training as feasible due to the difference in time commitment.
Our troop only meets once a week plus monthly outings or overnights.
There doesn't seem to be much of a point in studying ma unless
they commit to 2/3x week plus outside practice. Additionally, the
girls' interests are widely varied. Only a few of them are
interested in learning a ma at this point, and they pursue it
independently. Certain sports would be easier to participate in
as a troop when skill is either easily acquired or not necessary
for enjoyment.
Dev
d...@wam.umd.edu
APATHY=
Hmmmmmmmmm
Not alot you are allowed to do in America is there!!??
Ok i can understand the caution behind all these activities, but to BAN them!!
Hmmmmmmmmm
I think they may have missed a couple off of the list though.
1) Sky diving
2) White water canoeing
3) Cimbing up steep cliff faces
4) Abseiling down steep cliff faces
5) Walking for hours across rain drenched and bog filled moors.
6) Cooking on an open fire.
7) Any other activity a scout likes to do!!!!
Why are the BSA trying to take the fun out of scouting. The element of danger
and excitement is what i remember from my scouting days.
Jumping off of a 60 foot waterfall and landing in near freezing water has got
to be one of the things i look back at think "I must have been mad. But it was
fun. And i'd do it again.."
I feel the ban on Martial arts is not right. But thats my opinion. The martial
arts are not here to disform people. The arts can give people better control.
A person at peace with himself is a person worth knowing.
The martial arts are not an occult.
I am begining to feel that scouting is getting burried under all the paperwork.
And that Baden Powell is turning in his grave.
Don't flame me. Its not worth it. I beleive what i say is right.
My friends
Jim Young aka. U4ia
Danny Schwendener
>The badge requirement is stated as: Communicate with a scout or youth from
>another geographic region of Canada or the world for at least three times over
>at least six months. Your communication media can include: letter, telephone,
>facsimile, short wave radio, computer, etc.
The unit I'm leading here in Switzerland is a cub scout pack, so I don't
think that it is a good fit. However, all leaders of our corps meet
every wednesday evening, so I could probably find a scout unit who would
want to communicate with you. (A corps btw is +- the equivalent of a
council in the US).
Btw, any first and second level unit (= pack and troop) interested in
a similar project can let me know, and I'll do my best to find a peer
unit in our corps.
-- Danny Schwendener mac...@bernina.ethz.ch
Wolfsmeute Nidau/Glockenhof, Zurich, Switzerland
m.h.c. Troop 14, San Francisco
Dan Kary
> Hmmmmmmmmm
> Not alot you are allowed to do in America is there!!??
> Ok i can understand the caution behind all these activities, but to BAN them!!
> Hmmmmmmmmm
> I think they may have missed a couple off of the list though.
> 1) Sky diving
The ban on general aviation specifically includes a ban on parachuting.
(I assume you mean sky diving with a parachute) :-)
> 2) White water canoeing
There is a Whitewater merit badge.
> 3) Cimbing up steep cliff faces
> 4) Abseiling down steep cliff faces
Many Council camps and High Adventure Bases teach technical rock climbing.
> 5) Walking for hours across rain drenched and bog filled moors.
I'm not completely knowledgeable about the geography/geology/meteorology
of all areas in the US, but I do wonder if this is even possible anywhere
in the US (due to the general lack of bog filed moors). :-)
> 6) Cooking on an open fire.
This is getting surprisingly difficult to do! A growing number of Councils
do not permit ground fires of any kind in troop sites. The reason they give
is that they want to encourage "low impact" camping. Camping, hiking,
backpacking, etc. have become very popular activities in the US since the 60's.
Many wilderness areas show extreme signs of human use, i.e. fire rings that
are left intact can be visible signs of use for a very long time. BSA
literature reiterates the commonly heard advice "Pack it in, pack it out" and
"Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints". I know (and the
BSA knows) that fire rings can be dismantled and the impact reduced. I think
they prefer teaching boys to not cook on a fire to avoid the problem completely.
What about sitting around a campfire, singing songs, telling ghost stories, etc?
Our council camp has a Kiva (ceremonial site with a permanent fire ring) where
camp wide campfires are held and troops can get permission to have a campfire
if it is not built on the ground. We use the bottom 12" of a 50 gallon steel
drum elevated with several rocks. For cooking, our troop usually uses propane
stoves when we drive up to the camp site and alcohol fueled Trangia stoves for
backpacking. The only place where we cook on an open fire is in National
Forest Service campgrounds that have permanent concrete and steel fire rings.
Requirements for Second Class and First Class still require cooking on a fire.
I wonder if these will be modified in the futute?
> 7) Any other activity a scout likes to do!!!!
>
> Why are the BSA trying to take the fun out of scouting.
When I posted the restrictions I expected that readers from Europe would be
surprised. That was part of my motivation for posting the entire list, not
just martial arts. Our societies are so different, as are our legal traditions.
Even though US law was originally based on English Common Law, it has taken its
own path. The section on "Restricted Activities" mentions "legal
considerations". In a previous response on a different subject, I mentioned
that the annual premium for liability insurance for the BSA was $22 million
in 1989 (the only year for which I've heard a figure from an authoratative
source). This policy covers all registered leaders and all Councils for all
official BSA activities. It is common for insurer and insured to work together
to limit liability (which reduces premium cost). I suspect that the list
of restricted activities is motivated in large part by previous legal action.
Another activity occurs to me. Bungee jumping. It's not mentioned, unless
you do it from a hot-air balloon which is mentioned. I guess this means
that bungee jumping off bridges is OK. :-) Seriously, the book was copyright
1990, and probably mostly written in 1989 and earlier. The growth in the
popularity of bungee jumping in the US is more recent than that. I expect to
see it mentioned in the next edition, which will probably be no time soon,
most BSA publications are updated less than once a decade.
Dan Kary
Robin Hood
> In article <1992Mar31.0...@col.hp.com> ka...@col.hp.com (Dan
Kary) writes:
> >Dakin Burdick <burd...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
> >> I hear that Scouting is becoming more associated with sports programs
> >> these days. Has anyone heard of a troop that either practices the
> >> martial arts or is connected with a martial arts program?
insurances purposes. The study and practice of martial arts is an
excellent physical, mental, and character-building aspect of one's growing
up and development. Martial arts teaches self-defense (obviously), but it
also emphasizes one's self-confidence, discipline, concentration, and
respect - things that are very important (or at least should be) to a
growing youth (or adult).
Isn't horseback riding, airplane piloting/flying, boating, climbing,
whitewater rafting, and any water-related activity just as dangerous?
What about running at scouting events? Although it's not approved, isn't
it encouraged through the sports and physical fitness merit badges? Then
there's the responsibility factor...where most martial arts practioners
are much more mature and responsible than kids who are involved in some of
the above-mentioned activities. I am not trying to downgrade any of the
"approved scouting activities", but I am trying to encourage a
consideration of adding acceptance of martial arts into bsa policy. After
all, how many people have (unfortunately & tragically) died in some of the
above-mentioned activities compared to a martial arts activity? I think
you'd find the statistics considerably less for martial arts (actually ma
doesn't even, I think, have statistics, because the occurance is so
rare!).
I've practiced 3 styles of martial arts (Tae Kwon Do, Tang Soo Do, and
Jiu Jitsu) for over 5 years. I believe that both scouting and the martial
arts have helped me to develop into a successful young adult. Many
scouters practice martial arts as an aside, because they realize the
importance and practicality that ma training can provide...even a group of
U.S. congressmen are black belts (with some training to get their black
belts)! I think that the bsa should seriously look at the martial arts as
equal to some of the other scouting approved activities and think about
the realistic benefits that ma training can provide (not to mention, the
positive attraction to scouting!).
I am, in no way, trying to advocate the incorporation of martial arts
into a standard troop program, but instead looking at the advantages of
encouraging a merit badge for martial arts (this may actually prevent the
bsa from insurance liability). Well, what do you think? Do you want to
see some young scout practicing ma movie techniques and beating someone up
or would you rather see a young scout not practicing ma techniques that
were really taught by someone. If you don't believe me, stop by any
dojo/school and ask the instructor what the likelihood of a ma student's
involvement in an altercation would be. I'll bet you that the likelihood
is far below what you would expect! Seriously consider my proposition,
after all...the kids are our future (Wouldn't it be great to see crime and
hatred disappear?).
In Scouting $ Martial Arts,
Bill Schlichtig
Eagle Scout, OA Brotherhood, APO member,
former sea explorer, TKD brown belt
Wayne C. McCullough
>> I hear that Scouting is becoming more associated with sports programs
>> these days. Has anyone heard of a troop that either practices the
>> martial arts or is connected with a martial arts program?
>>
>
>From "Troop Committee Guidebook", pp 67-68 copyright 1990 Boy Scouts of America
>Irving, TX, ISBN 0-8395-6505-4, Order No. 6505C ($2.35, 72 pages)
>
> R e s t r i c t e d A c t i v i t i e s
>
> Because of legal considerations and potential danger to participants,
>the following activities have been declared as unauthorized and restricted
>by the Boy Scouts of America:
>
[Some restricted Activities]
>
>o Boxing, Karate and related martial arts are not authorized activities.
>
[More restricted Activities]
>o The activity commonly referred to as "war games" - where individuals
> shoot paint dye at one another - is an unauthorized activity.
>
This is facinating, since, there is an Explorer post who's main
activity is is a full-contact, armed, medevial-fantasy martial art.
If I remember correctly, they use padded pvc tubing, and head shots,
(as well as other regions) are illegal. They are an explorer post
because they could not afford insurance any other way.
> Y o u t h P r o t e c t i o n T r a i n i n g
>
> BSA offers a training program for adults that explores the various forms
>of child abuse. Using a video presentation and discussion guide, the causes,
>signs, and proper response to and reporting of child abuse incidents are
>explained in detail. For the protection of yourself, as a leader, and the boys
>in your troop, every adult associated with the troop, including merit badge
>counselors, should attend this seminar. To participate in Youth Protection
>training, contact your local council district executive for the next training
>session.
I geuss the exclusion of martial arts exclude self-defence programs. I
geuss this is ok, since I went to one taught at my college by a state
police officer. the class could have been retitled "mutilation- a 2
hour short course" In the first 15 minutes of the class, the instructer
taught us about 5 differant moves - 2 of which could be fatal, 2 of which
could pernamently disable the victom, and the last of which was aimed
at male attackers to make the recipiant wish it were a fatal attack.
I have mixed feelings about teaching boys this without the disclipin.
Wayne
Kookaburra
> Isn't horseback riding, airplane piloting/flying, boating, climbing,
>whitewater rafting, and any water-related activity just as dangerous?
I am in agreement. By a considerable margin, the greatest risk in martial
arts participation is sports injuries that are totally unrelated to
sparring; the same that could be sustained with no less frequency
in any other physically demanding activity.
>What about running at scouting events? Although it's not approved, isn't
>it encouraged through the sports and physical fitness merit badges? Then
If this is the case, there is no rationale for excuding martial arts.
>consideration of adding acceptance of martial arts into bsa policy. After
>all, how many people have (unfortunately & tragically) died in some of the
>above-mentioned activities compared to a martial arts activity? I think
>you'd find the statistics considerably less for martial arts (actually ma
>doesn't even, I think, have statistics, because the occurance is so
>rare!).
I agree.
> I am, in no way, trying to advocate the incorporation of martial arts
>into a standard troop program, but instead looking at the advantages of
>encouraging a merit badge for martial arts (this may actually prevent the
>bsa from insurance liability). Well, what do you think? Do you want to
I don't think the merit badge approach would alleviate BSA's liability,
so the only hope of this is for BSA to reevaluate its position in
light of the realities of martial arts training.
As a GSUSA leader, I would like to see a martial arts badge available
for cadettes and seniors (and possibly juniors) and will do what I can
to that end. Thank you for the spark.
Dakin Burdick
>>>
>>> I geuss the exclusion of martial arts exclude self-defence programs. I
>>> geuss this is ok, since I went to one taught at my college by a state
>>> police officer. the class could have been retitled "mutilation- a 2
>>> hour short course" In the first 15 minutes of the class, the instructer
>>> taught us about 5 differant moves - 2 of which could be fatal, 2 of
>>which
>>> could pernamently disable the victom, and the last of which was aimed
>>> at male attackers to make the recipiant wish it were a fatal attack.
>>>
>>> I have mixed feelings about teaching boys this without the disclipin.
>>unorganized and unorthodox. Try going to any school where self-defense is
>>taught...and you'll see the discipline involved.
>If you were to teach martial arts with the disclipne, the course would
>be a major endevor of time, patiance, etc. To do it properly it should
>be taught over months, or years. The focus on such a course would be
>disclipne, physical fitness, and finaly, self defence (or at least in
>most schools. There are some sparring schools where the emphasis is
>in the reverse order.)
>
>I would be interested in any SHORT (at most 5 2-3 hour sessions) self
>defence program that places a decent emphasis on disclipine.
Short self-defense training courses may be of use to anyone, but they
certainly are not worth a merit badge. If there was to be a martial
arts merit badge, it ought to require the achievement of at least
a brown belt (3rd kyu in Japanese arts), with a time commitment of
two years, or a black belt with a time commitment of 3 years. The
benefit of martial arts training is increased confidence, much more
so than the ability to fight. Naturally, long term training for
this would be outside the Scouting program itself, but it would be
a way to reward students of the arts.
By the way, I would have serious problems with self-defense or
fighting training for the Scouts in 5 easy lessons. There is
no way to emphasize discipline; you teach the students just enough
to be dangerous to themselves and to others. In addition, the very
idea brings to mind the Hitler Youth. Military training for the
Scouts is a VERY bad idea to my mind (I guess I don't associate
the martial arts -- under a good instructor -- with military
training).
Dakin
burd...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
PS: Boxing might make a good middle ground between sport training
and martial arts training. And training is not necessary (just give
'em some gloves and let them go to it).
Kevin D Colagio
or have a Martial Arts merit badge boils down to 2 basic reasons (both of
which I agree with...)
1) The time that it takes for a person to learn the control neccessary to
practice the martial arts is longer than would be feasable to a troop.
2) Finding a counselor for the martial arts may be difficult. These days
there are a bunch of people out there who claim to be trained and who
aren't. I would not want to have someone with no real credentials
instructing the scouts I was in charge of, and there is no real way to
verify someone's credentials in these sports as of now.
Wayne C. McCullough
Please send all mail to the author, listed below.
<Begin Forrwarded Message>
---------------
From KNVQ%MARISTB...@VM.MARIST.EDU Sat Apr 4 20:09:02 1992
To: <wa...@eng.umd.edu>
Subject: Scouting and the Martial Arts
As I don't have a Usenet feed,but am able to get a look at the articles
in it,I logged on today to see a posting on the subject. There most
surely is an Explorer post that does exactly that,and I am a member of
said group. The game in question is run by NERO,short for New England
Roleplaying Organization. It is sponsored by the Boy Scouts. It's a
fantasy role-playing game,that does use padded PVC,and does ban shots to
the head(as well as the groin,hands,and feet). If anyone is interested
please have them send E-mail to me,as I can't post to Usenet. Also,the
group in question is now two-one in Massachusetts,the other in New
Jersey. It's fun,very safe(no serious injuries whatsoever from the start
in 1987),and I'd love to see it go farther than the New England/NJ area.
We are not full-contact,however. In fact the rules are very strict with
regards to body-blocking and the like.
-Paul
Paul Tomaszewski KN...@MARISTB.BITNET Marist College,Poughkeepsie NY
PS IF you could pass the info contained here along to rec.scouting,I'd
be much obliged. Our Boy Scouts/Elks liaison,Steve Brandes,can be gotten
hold of via phone at (908)769-7728.
Craig D. Beere
> certainly are not worth a merit badge. If there was to be a martial
> arts merit badge, it ought to require the achievement of at least
> a brown belt (3rd kyu in Japanese arts), with a time commitment of
> two years, or a black belt with a time commitment of 3 years.
¿Que? 3 Years for a merit badge? Do you guys do things different to what we
do in New Zealand? 3 Months for a merit badge is the norm here, some even
shorter.
> Military training for the Scouts is a VERY bad idea to my mind.
Scouts is a paramilitary organisation. It was founded by a soldier, with the
aim that the scouts would be useful to the army (as messengers etc).
Why do you feel military training is a very bad idea? Do you feel the
ceremonies and uniform are also bad?
Besides, what's the Master at Arms badge? Shooting & Archery are pretty
military to my mind.
[Re Boxing]
> And training is not necessary (just give 'em some gloves and let them go
> to it).
Oh get real! If you think giving boys & girls gloves & letting them go for it
is responsible, but encouraging them to learn a martial art is not, then you
have a serious problem!
{*******************************************************************************
** Craig D. Beere (a.k.a. ++Byron)
** University of Waikato, New Zealand
** C...@waikato.ac.nz
*}
{$I standard_disclaimer}
{$I witty_quote}
Dakin Burdick
>> Short self-defense training courses may be of use to anyone, but they
>> certainly are not worth a merit badge. If there was to be a martial
>> arts merit badge, it ought to require the achievement of at least
>> a brown belt (3rd kyu in Japanese arts), with a time commitment of
>> two years, or a black belt with a time commitment of 3 years.
>
>do in New Zealand? 3 Months for a merit badge is the norm here, some even
>shorter.
You need at least two years of training to make the martial arts work
for you. It takes about a year to overcome your old reflexes, and
another year to make your new ones work better than your old ones.
The merit badge would simply recognize effort that has already been
expended. A three month merit badge in Self-Defense would be a merit
badge best summarized by "kick him in the nuts, stomp on his foot."
>> Military training for the Scouts is a VERY bad idea to my mind.
>
>Scouts is a paramilitary organisation. It was founded by a soldier, with the
>aim that the scouts would be useful to the army (as messengers etc).
Right, but Scouts are not supposed to be used in fighting (which
disappointed many boys in WW I!). I suppose some would argue that
the Scouts could replace the Guardian Angels in the cities if
they were linked to unarmed combat training, but it seems to me
such training would be a step towards the Hitler Youth.
>Besides, what's the Master at Arms badge? Shooting & Archery are pretty
>military to my mind.
Both are rationalized as training in hunting here in the states (which
may be a poor rationalization these days, but it's still used).
>[Re Boxing]
>> And training is not necessary (just give 'em some gloves and let them go
>> to it).
>
>Oh get real! If you think giving boys & girls gloves & letting them go for it
>is responsible, but encouraging them to learn a martial art is not, then you
>have a serious problem!
If you just punt around with boxing, there is a very low chance of
injury in boxing. If the kids don't have training, they just kind of
thump on each other. On the other hand, the martial arts train kids
to poke eyes, kick to the groin, break knees, etc. It takes a much
greater commitment to the arts to ensure that the training is not
put the wrong use. I should point out that I've taught Kids Karate
for about 6 years and believe that the arts ARE good for kids. It
just takes a longterm commitment. The perils of this training are
illustrated by the time a 8-year-old student of a friend of mine
went home broke his older brother's knee. My friend's karate classes
ended rather quickly (I haven't had problems yet in my classes,
except for the occasional potential bully that I have to correct).