Should Adult leader wear OA patch from scouting?
Ken Rojas
I have just recently become an adult leader in my son's cub pack. I wanted to
set a good example for the boys and get my uniform in order, so I dug out my
old uniform for an example.
On my pocket flap there was the OA patch from my old lodge. That brought back
many fond memories of the when I was in scouts and a member of OA.
My question is should I wear my old lodge patch? Even though I am not a dues
paying member now. I thought it would be a good thing for the boys to see as
potential in going on to Boy scouts.
regards,
Ken Rojas
Farley F Fox
It is policy in our Lodge, as I am sure as it is at National, that OA
flaps are to be worn only by dues paid members.
Although our Council is rife with non-active "flap wearers".
In Brotherhood
Farley
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df...@starbase.neosoft.com hmmmmmmm....let's see.....Nope!
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Houston, Texas 77080
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Mikedunne
ke...@heavy.gpsr.colostate.edu (Ken Rojas) writes:
>I have just recently become an adult leader in my son's cub pack. I
wanted to
>set a good example for the boys and get my uniform in order, so I dug out
my
>old uniform for an example.
You should only way an OA patch if you are a dues-paying member of that
lodge. Usually, that means a couple of bucks a year. Your scout office
should be able to answer questions on how to pay dues and be active. It's
a good way to get back into Boy Scouting while your son is a Cub.
Ronald Oakes
Technically, No you may not wear your old O.A. patch on a uniform. The
current BSA policy is that a scout or scouter may only wear the O.A. patch
for the lodge they are currently active in (read "paing dues to"). Now, of
course, this does not stop many scouts and scouters from wearing a special
O.A. lodge flap, even if they are not active in that lodge.
What I would suggest instead is to contact the O.A. lodge in your council
(your service center, or a district volunteer should be able to get you in
touch) and become an active member by paying dues. Once you pay, you
should get a flap from that lodge (unless it is the one you were in as a
youth), and wear it proudly on your right pocket flap. If you are
interested, you can also get involved in the O.A. lodge by helping out on
work weekends (which requires doing work, not drinking coffee), or even
attending meetings if they do not conflict with Roundtable -- all leaders
should try to make Roundtable IMHO.
Ronald B. Oakes
Member Lakota Lodge 175, former member Yah-Teh-Si-Kess Lodge 66
Member Boy Scout Roundtable Staff, Signal Hill District
Former Scoutmaster, now Committee Member, Troop 91
Palatine, IL (Northwest Suburban Council)
I used to be an Eagle (WB), and I earned mine in '84.
(and that's not all I do with my spare time)
Jim Miller, Jr.
>Howday-
>regards,
>Ken Rojas
Ken,
You should contact the Lodge in your current Council and find out about paying
dues as soon as possible. You are still a member of the Order, but need to
become a member of the Lodge in the Council where you maintain your primary
registration. At that point you can where that Lodge's flap on your uniform
(or your old one if it's the same Lodge).
|Jim Miller, Jr. <jmil...@lsfcu.org> Eagle Scout - '88|
|Systems Administator Vigil Honor - '94|
|Liberty Savings Federal Credit Union Meechgalhukquot-|
|Jersey City, NJ "Redheaded One"|
|Advisor, Explorer Post 348 Hudson Liberty Council, BSA|
| "On my honor I will do my best..." |
If we weren't meant to eat meat, cows would move a heck of a lot faster
dwashbur
lodge, and I am not now a dues paying member of the OA. I was informed
that should I become a member and pay dues again, then I would be
eligible for wearing the patch -- the local lodge's patch (not my former
one) and such. Hope this helps! Dave
DAVEL00MIS
ke...@heavy.gpsr.colostate.edu (Ken Rojas) writes:
>My question is should I wear my old lodge patch? Even though I am not a
dues
>paying member now.
Ken,
You shouldn't wear the flap of a lodge to which you aren't currently
paying dues. Further many councils restrict flap wear to the flap of
their OWN lodge. In this case the only thing you could do would be to
register as a member-at-large of your old council, and pay your dues to
that lodge. Then you should be legal in wearing that lodge's flap.
YIS
Dave Loomis
Bruce Hietbrink
(Ronald Oakes) wrote:
If you are
> interested, you can also get involved in the O.A. lodge by helping out on
> work weekends (which requires doing work, not drinking coffee), or even
> attending meetings if they do not conflict with Roundtable -- all leaders
> should try to make Roundtable IMHO.
>
I'd just like to add my agreement to Ron's statement about becoming
involved (at least a little) rather than just paying the dues. My lodge
had a dues paying membership of 1200, but how many of those actually
were active? I can't give a number but certainly not 1200.
One other thing here. My district always had OA chapter meetings
at the same time and place as roundtables. They did this so Scoutmasters
could provide rides for Scouts in their troops. The added advantage
is that it gets the youth together without too many adults. This is
supposed to be a totally youth run organization, but I've seen many
instances where the adults try to run things. Anyway, this arrangement
always worked well for my chapter.
Bruce Hietbrink
Kem White
>Subject: Should Adult leader wear OA patch from scouting?
>Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 10:51:53
>I have just recently become an adult leader in my son's cub pack.
[Snip]
>My question is should I wear my old lodge patch?
I asked the same question last summer, Ken, for the same reasons. I got
quite a few responses. My original post and some of the more germane posted
responses follow. As for what I did: I became a dues-paid member of my local
lodge which is Nentico No. 12. I wear its flap, quite proudly I might
add, on my adult uniform rather than the flap from when I was a scout.
Reactivating my OA membership wasn't too difficult and you may wish to do
this, too. Despite the fact that there's really no role for an adult Cub
leader in the OA, I'm glad I reactivated my membership. At least I get to go to
the annual lodge banquet.
BTW, so far, not one cub has asked about my flap.
Cheers,
Kem White
Pack 692
BAC
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 20:48:12 GMT
I recently became leader of my son's cub scout den.
I've been through training and have just purchased
my uniform. Is it acceptable to wear the OA lodge
patch I received as a scout(more than 25 years ago)
on my right pocket flap? I found the BSA Insignia
Guide to be unclear on this point for cub scout
leaders. The OA lodge I joined as a youth is in a
different council than my son's cub pack.
Cheers,
Kem White
d...@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu
From: R...@UMUC.UMD.EDU (Lawrence A. Ruh)
It is appropriate to wear a "Universal Ribbon Pin" which is a silver arrow
suspended from a red-and-white ribbon to indicate OA membership. It is
appropriate to wear a Lodge Flap to show active membership in a lodge. In
most lodges, to be an active member, you must pay dues. Your old lodge may
be willing to accept your dues or say you are an active member but that
question needs to answered by them. You also could join the local lodge and
start paying dues.
*****************************************************************************
* <Larry Ruh> *
* "The amount of Common Sense in the Universe is a Fixed Quantity, *
* The problem is that the population sharing it keeps increasing!" *
* Best address: LAWRENC...@EXCHANGE.SAIC.COM *
* Army Office for Defense Medical Information Systems 202-576-2121 *
* Any opinions are my own. I have a lot of them so they tend to get *
* confused and changed over time. *
*****************************************************************************
From: sco...@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (D. A. Scocca)
The official rule is no. You are supposed to wear the flap of the
lodge in which you are currently a member and you are only permitted
to be currently a member of the lodge in the council in which you
maintain your primary registration (i.e. your son's council).
Officially, you should contact this lodge (which would be Nentico, in
your case, assuming that you're in the same location you're posting
from), and pick up a flap.
In fact, it's a fairly common practice and is likely to get little
complaint unless (maybe) you were to be active in the lodge. I've
never heard anyone in Baltimore complaining about such a thing.
And, of course, wherever I end up they'll have to pry the Nentico flap
off me with a crowbar....
Dave Scocca
Harford Chapter, Nentico Lodge #12
--
* The Minstrel in the Gallery "Heteroskedastic" *
* D. A. Scocca sco...@gibbs.oit.unc.edu *
* "My love does not, cannot _make_ her happy. My love can only *
* release in her the capacity to be happy." --J. Barnes *
From: df...@sugar.NeoSoft.COM (Farley F Fox)
Indeed. In our Lodge only dues paid members are permitted to wear the Lodge
Flap.
From: bob.s...@exchange.com
Remember that night more than 25 years ago... You were
hungry, tired, but in awe of a ceremony going on before you. You had
completed your ordeal, you had passed all the tests you were challenged
to take. You made a promise to "always regard the ties in the
Brotherhood... as lasting"
Welcome back Brother.
Wear your old flap proudly. Wear the arrow pin on the button of
your shirt whenever you are in uniform, and wear your sash at special
occasions. Feel free (read that "I encourage you") to renew your
membership in your NEW lodge. You may wear the flap from the
new lodge if you want, but you may choose to wear your old flap
instead; I do. Contact the local troop and find out when and where the
chapter meets. The Chapter Advisor and Lodge Secretary will assist you
in getting a verification of your membership in the order.
Again I say; Welcome Back.
Bob Stanton
Unit Commissioner
Merrimac District
Tidewater Council, Va/N. C.
|| >-- WWW--> ||
Blue Heron Lodge #349
W1-609-81 Beaver
From: rk3...@u.cc.utah.edu (RYAN KEIL)
Actually, you need to pay dues in the lodge of the council where you are
registered. Technically, your previous lodge cannot accept your dues
unless you register in that council.
YiS/WWW
Ryan Keil, BEAR-ly Scoutin'
From: wal...@wkuvx1.wku.edu (Settummanque, the blackeagle)
Date: 23 Jun 94 10:29:24 CDT
Here comes TWO answers, Kem.....the "official BSA answer", followed by
Mike Walton's "personal opinion and experience". You may choose to do
either, both, or none at all:
The Boy Scouts of America recently changed policies as it relates to
the wearing of a OA flap (or holding membership, which the flap
represents) Arrowmen. The previous policy was that any Arrowman could
wear ANY lodge flap of ANY lodge that they were a member of. This
made sense, especially with military folks like me that frequently
move from local Council to local Council every two or three years.
It also made sense for the many of us (like you), that were a member
of ONE lodge growing up, and now is a member of a second Lodge as an
adult.
The CURRENT policy, and also one which makes sense, is that "you are a
member of ONE lodge, and ideally this should be the Lodge which is
associated with YOUR LOCAL COUNCIL. When transferring from local
Council to another local Council, OA "flaps" should reflect the
CURRENT LODGE in which you are a member and the current Council in
which you are registered. Order of the Arrow membership is connected
with registration as a youth or adult member of the Boy Scouts of
America."
Mike Walton, a longtime Scouter and former paraprofessional, offers
this version of the policy: "Scouters frequently will show
preference to a Lodge that either they grew up with, associate with
presently, or because of military or corporate moves, reflects the
last time in which they were active as a member of the Order of the
Arrow. It makes sense, therefore, for Scouts and Scouters to wear
OA flaps from lodges other than the one presently residing in the
local Council PROVIDED THAT the Scout or Scouter is currently a
dues-paid member of the present lodge AND a current, registered member
of the Boy Scouts of America. This creates interest in Arrowmen and
non-Arrowmen, many of which have never seen a OA flap from locations
other than the present Council location.
This will do for *most* Scouters. As a personal aside, I wear the Lodge
flap of the Lodge in which I obtained membership in (Zit-Kala-Sha),
the Lodge in which recognized me for OA service (Black Eagle), as well
as the present Lodge that I am associated with (Wapiti), depending on
uniform. Unless you are a real jerk, the mere explaining that you
were a member of that Lodge (as a youth, from a previous location),
suffices MOST Arrowmen. You WILL meet up with those Arrowmen which
insist that you take off the Lodge flap and replace it with one
from your current local Council: you choose what you reply to them at
that point. Me, I tell them to take a flying leap because I happen to
be just as proud of MY lodge as I am THE lodge in which I pay monies
to each year. "
Hope that helps you and not confuse you!
Settummanque!
--
Settummanque, the blackeagle... (MAJ) Mike L. Walton (
___)_
(h) 502-782-7992 (f) 502-781-7279 (w) 502-782-7467 |-=-|]
3201-D Cave Springs Avenue -- Greenwood, KY 42104-4439 -=====-
Internet: WAL...@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU/America OnLine: KYBLK...@AOL.COM
"Not speaking for WKU......................but I do speak well!!"
Bob Haar
If you have left you renewal lapse, then you are not a member of OA and
should not wear the patch (I assume you are talking about the pocket-flap
patch that designates membership in a particular OA lodge).
Why not re-activate your memebership? If you are still living within
the area of your original lodge, you can probably do this just by
paying current dues or maybe a year of back dues. If you are living in
a different area, you should transfer to the local lodge. Call your
BSA council's office and find out who the lodge contact is and go from
there.
Bob Haar (email: rh...@gmr.com )
Chartered Organization Representative, Troop and Pack 188
BSA, Clinton Valley Council, Pontiac, Michigan, USA.
Chippewa Lodge #29, WWW
Branden Morris
: Howday-
: regards,
: Ken Rojas
Hello Ken -- great to see you're back in the program. I look
forward to the day when i can be with my own sons and daughters in
Scouting. (That day is still a ways off, though :))
You'll probably hear many different responses from someof the
"old-timers" here on the net, but I serve as a Section Chief in the
Order of the Arrow. What I am about to tell you is the official policy,
and in my opinion, the one that will help you provide the best example.
You are only supposed to wear the flap of the lodge that you are
currently registered it, which corresponds to the council you are
currently registered in. (Registering simply means paying dues, often a
nominal ammount) So on your old shirt, you have a flap from Lodge X,
which you have many fond memories of. Now, you're in Council Y, though,
with Lodge Y. This is the council you now have a primary registration
in, and the one where you perform a duty for the benefit of youth.
If I were you, I would take that flap from Lodge X, and put in
in a nice mounted plaque, and hang it on the wall somewhere. Put it
where you can see it frequently, and remember always your experiences
there. When your children and their peers are old enough to understand
and care about the OA, be sure to tell them all kinds of wonderful
stories aout what you experiecned there. In the meantime, go to the
Council Center, and register with the new lodge. Pay your dues, purchase
a flap, and wear it proudly as part of the Lodge that serves your
council. And not only wear the flap, go to weekends. Ask the Lodge
Advisor if there's anything you can do. Not only will you be in-line
with policy, which in itself sets a good example for youth, you will
also continue to serve in the ways for which you were elected some time
ago. A lodge always needs adults to help out who understand the purpose
and program of the Order, which is best gained as service to the Order
by a youth -- which you have done.
Brother, your post has done me good today. Hearing about someone
who has returned to Scouting with his children is one more point of
light in the darkness of rec.scouting ;) Seriously, it's good to hear,
and I wish you the best of luck. Any questions, please feel free to ask.
Sincerely,
Branden Morris
Section Chief, NE-1B
1994 National Planning Committee
Sean Wood
>Subject: Re: Should Adult leader wear OA patch from scouting?
>From: davel...@aol.com (DAVEL00MIS)
>Date: 7 Dec 1994 00:25:22 -0500
>Ken,
>YIS
>Dave Loomis
I am no longer a dues paying member of my lodge either, but I still display
my lodge flap. I think that you are free to wear it if you choose,
especially if you are no longer in that council.
In Scouting,
Sean Eric Wood
Assistant Scoutmaster
Troop 104
Acton, IN
Eagle Scout Class of 1992
Daniel J. Wright
>My question is should I wear my old lodge patch? Even though I am not a dues
>paying member now. I thought it would be a good thing for the boys to see as
>potential in going on to Boy scouts.
Although it probably is not allowed, I seriously doubt anything would
happen if you did. Although, if you have so many fond memories, why not get
back into it?
Bruce Hietbrink
(Branden Morris) wrote:
>
> You are only supposed to wear the flap of the lodge that you are
> currently registered it, which corresponds to the council you are
> currently registered in.
When I was a youth member we came up against this one every once in
a while. What it boiled down to was that we had a few adults who
were active in our lodge, but lived (45 minutes away) and were
registered in troops in another council. We interpreted the
rules (because the language is unclear) (or was, if national has
clarified this I'd like to know) as meaning that you could only
be registered in one lodge, but it was not necessarily the one
corresponding to your council.
Then when I went to college I ran into the same problem. I was
lodge chief, but I became involved with a troop near my college,
so I was actually registered in one council and a different lodge.
So anyway, is the national policy clear on this? If it is, is
there any provision for college students who remain active in
their home lodge? In my case, my college was closer to my home
lodge's council headquarters than some people actually in the
council's borders.
YIS
Bruce Hietbrink
Henry B. Knowles
d...@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu (Kem White) writes :
[snip]
Reactivating my OA membership wasn't too difficult and you may wish to do
this, too. Despite the fact that there's really no role for an adult Cub
leader in the OA, I'm glad I reactivated my membership. At least I get
to go to the annual lodge banquet.
[snip]
I agree with the suggestion that reactivating OA membership is easy
to accomplish, at least in most lodges. I disagree, however, with the
statement that there's no role for a Cub leader in the OA. Speaking
for Tipisa Lodge 326, serving the Central Florida Council, we are
pleased to accept service from every Arrowman, youth or adult. We
don't care if the adult is registered in the Cub Scout, Boy Scout,
or Explorer programs, or in a district or council role, etc. If he
or she wants to provide service through the Order, we will try to help
the person find a job that interests them. We have had Cub leaders
serve in a variety of ways, ranging from unit election team advisor to
chapter advisor and lodge officer advisor. By the way, the region
chairman (I think that's the right title) for the Southern Region
of the OA is also a Cub Scout leader in his son's pack. I am confident
that your local lodge would be pleased to welcome you, and help you
find a way to renew your participation in activities, if you wish.
Good luck and best wishes.
YIS,
Henry Knowles
Lodge Advisor, Tipisa Lodge 326
Scoutmaster, Troop 911
kno...@escmail.orl.mmc.com
Branden Morris
: >Ken,
: >YIS
: >Dave Loomis
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
HUH?
Sean, you should only 1) wear a lodge flap if you're a
registered member of the lodge, and 2) wear the flap for the current
lodge you're a member of. I really don't understand how you're entitled
to wear *any* flap if you're not a member, let alone one from a lodge
you're no longer a member of.
Of course you're free to do what you want, and no one can stop
you short of ripping it from your shirt (which I've seen happen ;)), but
if you really have any idea of cheerful service and any inkling of what
kind of an example Arrowmen should set, then the policies make perfect
sense.
Wearing a flap doesn't make you an Arrowman; the kind of
cheerful service you give on a daily basis, in uniform or not, makes you
an Arrowman. Yet if one is going to wear the outward trappings of an
Arrowman, set the example in this area as well and do it right.
Branden Morris
old-timers <g> who have fond memories of the lodges they were active in,
and us newbies (who still have a good 8 years under our belts and lots
of experience as youth leaders) who's lodges have just been merged.
We are all proud of our lodges, past and present, for various
reasons. We have many wonderful memories of service and programs, made
many good friends, and have grown much from our experiences in those
lodges. We wear with pride our flaps, not only denoting the experiences
of being and Arrowman, but also of the specific customs associated with
our own lodge. There is certainly lodge pride and lodge spirit, and
flaps are symbolic of that.
What we need to keep in mind is that while we may have affection
for a particular lodge, and as such a particular flap, we need to
remember that we are all part of a much bigger brotherhood than that of
a single lodge. I would hope that no matter what flap I wore, no matter
where I go, I can meet and join with my brothers in cheerful service;
that if I had to leave Grand Monadnock #309 (formerly Quanopin #309, my
favorite lodge *sniff* and Nikiwigi #319) and go to DC for some reason,
I could join Aganamek Wipit #470 (with Larry Ruh) and be accepted as a
brother; and that in my new lodge, over time, I would make that many
more memories and friendships. I would learn new customs and traditions,
and before too long I would be proud to wear their flap as well.
Which is why I posted to the original post that he should keep
that flap somewhere visible where he can see it and often remember,
while wearing the new one on his shirt. I sit here in my college
apartment, and in my closet are my uniform shirts, with Grand Monadnock
flpas on them -- and right next to my computer, on my wall, in a
shadow-box is a flap from Quanopin #309, along with a few pictures of my
friends and I at various Scouting events.
It's important to have traditions; it's important to remember
our roots and the experiences that helped us grow and develop into who
we are; what is even more important is that we recognize that we are
part of something much bigger than a local lodge, and that is where our
true loyalties should lie -- not to a flap or a name, but to the three
principles that bind us together as Brothers.
Branden Morris
Section Chief, NE-1B
--
*****************************************************************
* *
* This is only a test *
* TEST .sig *
*****************************************************************
Branden Morris
Council; I'm involved with three councils, but I only wear the council
strip of the one I conder my "home" - in my case, the Council I grew up
in, and while I'm not the most active in that one, it's also what lodge
I belong to. I'm involved in a council where I go to school, and in the
council where my stepbrother lives (He's a scout and I signed on with
his troop over the summer where I lived with my dad and stepmom). I pay
dues and register with the home council, and with the corresponding
lodge. While I'm involved with the other councils, I continue to wear my
"home" shirt. My main choice in staying with my home council is simply
because I want to maintain registration with that lodge so I can
continue to be Section Chief of my section. Though my home is just over
an hour from where I go to school, the local lodge in Boston is in a
different Section, so to make this my primary council would mean I had
to give up my position (which I'm not ready to yet ;))
A person involved in multiple councils just needs to make a
choice about where he/she really wants to be counted among, and register
there.
--
*****************************************************************
* *
* This is only Branden's *
Mark Michalski
I was in the same predicament as you as I did my youth scouting and
Ordeal in #557 Pupukea in Hawaii in '70. The question arose as to
whether I could wear my #557 flap. Here is what the current OA Handbook
(92 rev) states.
" Lodge Membership....
Members of the OA may be officially dues paying members of only one
lodge, that being the lodge chartered to the council where they reside
and have their principal Scouting registration.
It is acceptable for an Arrowman to maintain contact w/ a lodge
where he was formerly a member, and he is welcome to pay a fee to receive
communicatiosn from his former lodge if that lodge so permits. However he
can not vote or influence lodge policy.
Arrowmen w/ extended residence away from their normal home such as
students or members of the military, may maintain their OA membership in
either place, but not both. If an Arrowman desires to join the lodge
away from home, he must also register in the BSA council at that location.
The Order is an integral part of Scouting, and we all owe primary
responsibility to Scouting wherever we are members of the Order"
Hopes this helps to clear things up.
Yours in the spirit of the trade, Mark Michalski <<--29-
-<<<
Cubmaster P24 '71 World Jamboree
Settummanque, the blackeagle
(Branden's true statement on the wearing of the Order of the Arrow
flap)
>> You are only supposed to wear the flap of the lodge that you are
>> currently registered it, which corresponds to the council you are
>> currently registered in.
> So anyway, is the national policy clear on this? If it is, is
> there any provision for college students who remain active in
> their home lodge?
Yes, Bruce, the National policy is clear, crisp and leaves no doubt
for individual lodges to "interpret". The policy is as Branden wrote
above. This policy was changed from the old one about three years
back in which you could wear and be a member of ANY lodge provided
that you have paid dues to it or participate in the lodge's activities
or were registered with the local Council in which the lodge resides.
There are NO provisions for anyone. Members of the National Office
staff whom are OA members become members of the Gamenowinik Lodge
(Lodge #555), serving the Direct Service Council. ALL other Scouters
(are SUPPOSED TO) wear the Lodge flap of the lodge in which they hold
PRIMARY REGISTRATION in, with no exception.
Now, let's turn this thing around and apply some reality to the issue.
I can tell you right now that there are thousands of Scouters (and I'm
one of them) that have decided from purely personal, sentimental
reasons, to wear the OA flap of the Lodge in which they became a
member, a Vigil Honor member or "their favorite lodge". This becomes
a Lodge issue and a Lodge *does have the right* to "make you wear
their lodge flap* during Lodge activities or events. Most Lodges
will work with you if you have compelling reasons to wear a flap other
than "ours", only if you agree to wear "our" flap on another uniform
and at least promote "our" Lodge. Likewise, I can "name names" of
National and Regional Scouters that are NOT wearing the Direct Service
Council's flap and choose not to, and are wearing a lodge of the
Council that they started their professional service in, or the lodge
in which they have received the Vigil Honor in.
SO, if I were you, this is what I would do. Get ahold of the Lodge
Chief and ask what the Lodge's policy is and get permission (if you
have a strong attachment to your old Lodge flap, as I do with my
Zit-Kala-Sha flap) to wear the flap on ONE of your old uniforms. And
by all means, support the Lodge in which you PAY DUES (which should be
the same lodge where you hold BSA membership in).
The days of being registered in one Council and hold OA membership in
a neighboring or different Council are *over*. You HAVE to hold
membership in ONE lodge, which belongs to ONE local Council.
It's a accountability problem that the BSA has had that they are
trying as hard as they can to correct. So please help them out!
Settummanque!
--
Settummanque, the blackeagle... (MAJ) Mike L. Walton (
co-Owner, Blackeagle Services ___)_
(h) 502-782-7992 (f) 502-781-7279 (w) 502-782-7467 |-=-|]
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Bruce Hietbrink
(Settummanque, the blackeagle) wrote:
> b...@xenon.chem.ucla.edu (Bruce Hietbrink) writes:
>
> (Branden's true statement on the wearing of the Order of the Arrow
> flap)
>
> >> You are only supposed to wear the flap of the lodge that you are
> >> currently registered it, which corresponds to the council you are
> >> currently registered in.
>
>
> > So anyway, is the national policy clear on this? If it is, is
> > there any provision for college students who remain active in
> > their home lodge?
>
> Yes, Bruce, the National policy is clear, crisp and leaves no doubt
> for individual lodges to "interpret". The policy is as Branden wrote
> above. This policy was changed from the old one about three years
> back in which you could wear and be a member of ANY lodge provided
> that you have paid dues to it or participate in the lodge's activities
> or were registered with the local Council in which the lodge resides.
>
> There are NO provisions for anyone.
Thank you, this answers my question. I was in this position 7 years
ago so that's why I didn't know this policy. That said, though, I
strongly disagree with this new revision of the policy. There have
to be many college students out there who are in the position I was
in. It is relatively easy to be involved in the OA while away
at school, or even to be Lodge Chief (I was). Most of the events
and meetings are on weekends during the school year. You just have
to drive back for Lodge Executive Committee meetings (which we
held quarterly), conclaves and work weekends (every month or
so) and spend a lot of time on the phone. The rest of the things
that require attendance are in the summer or we always had a banquet
during the Christmas break. This is not the ideal situation, but it
is very workable. In my case it wasn't all that different from being
at home as our lodge was four hours drive from one end to the other
but college was only an hour from our council camp and an hour and
a half from the council headquarters.
It is almost impossible, though, to be involved with a troop in
a different city. Meetings are weekly, and usually take place
on a school night. About the most you can do is get back for
your troop campouts, and not even all of these. It is much
easier (and better as you can give it more attention) if you
get involved in a troop at your new location, as I did. Now
national would require you to register in the lodge at your
new location. This almost precludes involvement, or at least
involvement like in the old lodge, because you can't just step
into a lodge office or other highly active position in the new
place. So you have a choice. You can join the new lodge and
essentially just attend work weekends, or you can lie and
register back home with a troop that you don't really belong
to anymore as you are really involved with a troop at the
new place.
What I am basically saying here is that while I understand why
National would make such a policy, this certainly does not
take into account youth in the 18 to 21 year range who
go away to college (except people who are in section or
higher positions and can register with the national service
council). I think this is a short-sighted policy and probably
would serve to decrease the involvement of this age member. As
has been noted in the "transition to adult leader" thread, a lot
of people drop out of the program around this age and don't get
back in until they have kids of their own. I think National
would do very well to rethink their position and have some sort of
provision for the college students who live three-quarters of the
year in one place and the summers at home.
Okay, I'll get down from my soapbox now. I fully expect that
everyone but Branden and Settummanque stopped reading long ago :)
YIS
Bruce Hietbrink
Branden Morris
Just wanted to make a few points:
One small correction is that as a Section person, I still register with
a council, and not Direct Service. I have primary registration as a
member-at-large, (I think? I need to check during recharter time) -- and
my vice chief and secretary are both registered with troops.
I'm in very much the situation you described -- I go to school about 1.5
hours away from my council, so it makes it very easy to stay sctive with
my Lodge. It's also especially easy to be a Section Chief while at
college -- not that the job is easy, but because it doesn't require a
lot of metings to go to. Now, I am (or was) registered with my home
troop an hour and a half away; needless to say, I can't make it back for
weekly meetings and trips unless I'm home on break or for the summer.
However, I found a troop here near my school that I help out with. I am
able to make 2-3 meetings per month depending on school, and also go on
the occassional trip. I don't wear this troop's council strip and
numbers, I continue to wear my regular shirts from my council back home.
Now if I was going to move here permenantly, I'd make this my primary
council and wear its insignia -- but since my primary ties are back
home, I don't. It gets a little tiresome to explain to the parents why
my shirt is different, but also opens up some neat conversations.
Either way, it's really no big deal. If I wanted to and was rich enough,
I could afford another shirt -- if I was a machochist (sic), I could
change patches every month or so :) No, I just wear what goes with my
primary registration.
--
*****************************************************************
* Branden C. Morris | "But I'm dedicating *
* School of Journalism, Northeastern U. | my life to only peaks.*
* | I want my life to be *
* Eagle Scout, Section Chief NE-1B WWW | one never-ending *
* Having been born of goodly parents... | ascension!" - Calvin *
*****************************************************************
* I Don't Have Enough $$ To Speak For Northeastern University ! *
*****************************************************************
D. A. Scocca
Settummanque, the blackeagle <wal...@wkuvx1.wku.edu> wrote:
>Now, let's turn this thing around and apply some reality to the issue.
[...]
> This becomes
>a Lodge issue and a Lodge *does have the right* to "make you wear
>their lodge flap* during Lodge activities or events. Most Lodges
>will work with you if you have compelling reasons to wear a flap other
>than "ours", only if you agree to wear "our" flap on another uniform
>and at least promote "our" Lodge.
This depends on how you define "the right". At most, a lodge could
refuse to let you pay dues or register if you wear the old lodge flap.
This is horribly petty, and would come off as such if they tried to do
so.
"The right" to make you wear the lodge flap does not necessarily imply
the ability to do so.
What I will do: Wear my Nentico flaps until the point where I feel
like I belong to another lodge (rather than simply being a registered
member of said lodge). Then, gradually put new flaps on new shirts,
always keeping at least one Nentico shirt.
The less in the OA my scouting activity is, the longer I'll be wearing
the Nentico flaps. And vice versa.
Dave Scocca
Harford Chapter