Pinewood Derby Wheel Lubricant
david scott gibson
Hi. I'm running our pack's Pinewood Derby this year and I just
noticed that the "official" lubricant sold at the Scout Store has
changed from graphite to polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE). The graphite
(which I used way back when I was a cub) always makes a mess,
especially on nice paint jobs. The PTFE is white and should solve
this long standing problem. It's probably a great idea. However, I
have a couple of questions. First, the "official rules" that came with
all of the car kits still say that graphite is the only legal
lubricant. I assume that it's okay to use either graphite or PTFE
this year and still be legal. Right? Second, if both lubricants will
be used, is one significantly better than the other? If so, I'd like
to let everyone in my pack know to help avoid the perception of an
unfair advantage for some. (As I understand it, wheel lubrication is
a major factor in car speed.) Has anyone out there conducted
scientific experiments comparing the two lubricants yet? :-) I'd
appreciate any answers or comments.
David G. Delage
My suggestion is to have both types available on race day and let the
racers decide which to use. That way it is a choice and nobody has an
unfair advantage (since both types were available to everyone).
-Dave
--
dgde...@ix.netcom.com www.netcom.com/~dgdelage
da...@dbc-mifco.com www.dbc-mifco.com/timers
------ Original message follows ------
Cheryl McKenzie
What ever you decide (in your pack) to do, DECIDE IN THE PACK COMMITTEE
meeting away from the boys, then BE CONSISTANT!!!
david scott gibson <dgi...@snoopy.cis.ohio-state.edu> wrote in article
<5amhjf...@snoopy.cis.ohio-state.edu>...
-Mayo,H.H.
>Hi. I'm running our pack's Pinewood Derby this year and I just
>noticed that the "official" lubricant sold at the Scout Store has
>changed from graphite to polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE). The graphite
>(which I used way back when I was a cub) always makes a mess,
>especially on nice paint jobs. The PTFE is white and should solve
Dry PTFE is nearly worthless as a lubricant in powder form. Silicon
oil is far better and doesn't make a mess. The problem seems to be
the mentality that "if something works, it's cheating."
Larry Mayo
Dennis Parker
In article <5c80ra$s...@ssbunews.ih.lucent.com>, h...@ihgp4.ih.lucent.com
Our district allows any lubricant as long as it stays on the axle - no dripping
oil for example. The best lubricant we've found is Lemon Pledge. A car lubed
with Pledge will beat a similar car lubed with graphite by 5 feet and there's
no black powder mess.
- Dennis Parker
Karl Pollak
h...@ihgp4.ih.lucent.com (-Mayo,H.H.) wrote:
>The problem seems to be
>the mentality that "if something works, it's cheating."
I don't think so Larry. I believe that the "Winning is all that
counts" mentality is the problem.
In my view, the main purpose of the KubKar Rally is the work that goes
into building the cars, attention to detail, the skills the kids learn
and the fun they have creating something together with dad. All the
rest of the hoopla pale by comparison.
Karl Pollak
10/25th Richmond Georgia group, Richmond British Columbia
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/3191/index.html
hi...@millcomm.com
In <5c9h4i$q...@thoth.portal.ca>, kpo...@nospam.com (Karl Pollak) writes:
>h...@ihgp4.ih.lucent.com (-Mayo,H.H.) wrote:
>
>>The problem seems to be
>>the mentality that "if something works, it's cheating."
>
>I don't think so Larry. I believe that the "Winning is all that
>counts" mentality is the problem.
>
>In my view, the main purpose of the KubKar Rally is the work that goes
>into building the cars, attention to detail, the skills the kids learn
>and the fun they have creating something together with dad. All the
>rest of the hoopla pale by comparison.
Actually, I think the main reason certain lubricants have been
prohibited is that they:
1) Would create a mess. Yes, the graphite is messy, but it vacuums up
easily. Oil soaks into things and is a lot harder to clean up -- a
significant concern since the pack is depending on the good graces of
a church or school to provide the room.
2) May damage the track. Oil dripping from fifty over-oiled cars
would quickly turn the track into an oily mess. (And don't try to
tell me that Cubs can be convinced to only use "a little" oil.)
3) May damage the wheels. The old wheels were made of a plastic that
most likely softens and swells when exposed to petroleum. The new
wheels would probably hold up better.
4) May not produce the desired result. A film of oil between wheel
hub and car body would tend to cause drag and slow down the car.
Dan Hicks
Hey!! My advice is free -- take it for what it's worth!
http://www.millcomm.com/~danhicks
-Mayo,H.H.
>
>Actually, I think the main reason certain lubricants have been
>prohibited is that they:
>
>1) Would create a mess. Yes, the graphite is messy, but it vacuums up
>easily. Oil soaks into things and is a lot harder to clean up -- a
>significant concern since the pack is depending on the good graces of
>a church or school to provide the room.
Try removing ground in graphite from a tile floor. Our host church
wound up spending money to have the floor stripped and rewaxed at some
expense.
>2) May damage the track. Oil dripping from fifty over-oiled cars
>would quickly turn the track into an oily mess. (And don't try to
>tell me that Cubs can be convinced to only use "a little" oil.)
at damage could it do if the surface is sealed?
>3) May damage the wheels. The old wheels were made of a plastic that
>most likely softens and swells when exposed to petroleum. The new
>wheels would probably hold up better.
Nope, it is the solvent in spray lube that does the damage, not
the silicon oil.
>4) May not produce the desired result. A film of oil between wheel
>hub and car body would tend to cause drag and slow down the car.
It could, but the benefit of graphite as a lubricant is not as good
as silicon oil.
Larry
hi...@millcomm.com
Larry, you forget that, when this whole thing started many years ago,
the only readily-available alternative to graphite was motor oil, and
after that stuff like WD-40. Certainly, there are better alternatives
now -- my first choice would be a teflon-based lube.
In <5cidi3$1...@ssbunews.ih.lucent.com>, h...@ihgp4.ih.lucent.com (-Mayo,H.H.) writes:
>>
>>Actually, I think the main reason certain lubricants have been
>>prohibited is that they:
>>
>>1) Would create a mess. Yes, the graphite is messy, but it vacuums up
>>easily. Oil soaks into things and is a lot harder to clean up -- a
>>significant concern since the pack is depending on the good graces of
>>a church or school to provide the room.
>
>Try removing ground in graphite from a tile floor. Our host church
>wound up spending money to have the floor stripped and rewaxed at some
>expense.
Once again, the graphite wouldn't create half as much a mess as motor
oil.
>>2) May damage the track. Oil dripping from fifty over-oiled cars
>>would quickly turn the track into an oily mess. (And don't try to
>>tell me that Cubs can be convinced to only use "a little" oil.)
>
>at damage could it do if the surface is sealed?
The tracks I've seen aren't sealed well enough to prevent oil from
soaking in. Each drop of oil, if not removed immediately, would cause
the surface to pucker a bit, making the track rougher.
>>3) May damage the wheels. The old wheels were made of a plastic that
>>most likely softens and swells when exposed to petroleum. The new
>>wheels would probably hold up better.
>
>Nope, it is the solvent in spray lube that does the damage, not
>the silicon oil.
Sorry, but the older thermoplastics ARE attacked by ordinary oil and
by stuff like WD-40. Certainly there are newer lubes that wouldn't
cause trouble, but the wheels of Cub Scout headquarters grind
exceedingly slow.
>>4) May not produce the desired result. A film of oil between wheel
>>hub and car body would tend to cause drag and slow down the car.
>
>It could, but the benefit of graphite as a lubricant is not as good
>as silicon oil.
>
> Larry
-Mayo,H.H.
>>Try removing ground in graphite from a tile floor. Our host church
>>wound up spending money to have the floor stripped and rewaxed at some
>>expense.
>
>Once again, the graphite wouldn't create half as much a mess as motor
>oil.
Not petroleum oil, silicon oil
>>at damage could it do if the surface is sealed?
>
>The tracks I've seen aren't sealed well enough to prevent oil from
>soaking in. Each drop of oil, if not removed immediately, would cause
>the surface to pucker a bit, making the track rougher.
You might be right about that.
>>Nope, it is the solvent in spray lube that does the damage, not
>>the silicon oil.
>
>Sorry, but the older thermoplastics ARE attacked by ordinary oil and
>by stuff like WD-40. Certainly there are newer lubes that wouldn't
>cause trouble, but the wheels of Cub Scout headquarters grind
>exceedingly slow.
Sorry again, silicon oil is NOT petroleum based and has no effect on
plastic. WD 40 is not silicon.
>>
>> Larry
>
hi...@millcomm.com
In <5cnigf$h...@ssbunews.ih.lucent.com>, h...@ihgp4.ih.lucent.com (-Mayo,H.H.) writes:
>>>Try removing ground in graphite from a tile floor. Our host church
>>>wound up spending money to have the floor stripped and rewaxed at some
>>>expense.
>>
>>Once again, the graphite wouldn't create half as much a mess as motor
>>oil.
>
>Not petroleum oil, silicon oil
My point is that the rules were set years ago -- long before other
lubes were readily available. The rules probably bear some
re-examination, especially given that the wheels and axles have been
changed recently.
gregor herrmann
could you please stop cross-posting bsa-stuff like pinewood derbies to other
newsgroups than r.s.usa!!!
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gregor herrmann boy scouts and girl guides of austria
gregor....@uibk.ac.at http://pcwww.uibk.ac.at/subz/c403111/
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