new propane tank refill laws
Phil Schuman
For those that use the 20lb propane tanks,
for group camping or backyard BBQ grills,
please be aware that some states now require
a new internal Overfill Protection Device (OPD).
If you have not re-filled your tank in the last year,
this will be a big suprise - they will NOT refill it -
You have to buy a NEW tank -
or exchange for a new one - with the OPD -
Just wanted to pass this along,
as yup - we were caught today :)
Phil -
°°°D°A°°°
mandatory in the majority of other countries for 20+ years in some cases.
Malaysia Indonesia and Japan where the first to introduce them all that time
ago.
--
"Phil Schuman" <pschuma...@interserv.com> wrote in message
news:ac6j1h$sea$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
Tom J
> For those that use the 20lb propane tanks,
> for group camping or backyard BBQ grills,
> please be aware that some states now require
> a new internal Overfill Protection Device (OPD).
That little regulation is a federal regulation that was passed in 1998.
Sure slipped up in a hurry didn't it. ;-)
You also need to be aware that if you trade your tank for a Blue Rhino
tank, it can only be refilled by Blue Rhino, so you pay the exchange each
time you need a refill. Also be aware that Blue Rhino only fills to 17
1/2# net weight, not 20#.
Tom J
Tom J
GOODIN TEXAS
cutting torch rig they can fill the old bottle.
Jay Walker
"GOODIN TEXAS" <cal...@neto.com> wrote in message
news:wPFF8.417$Ao3.1...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> I don't know about other states but in Texas If you tell them it is for a
> cutting torch rig they can fill the old bottle.
Better site a creditable and verifiable source... That is really bad advice
for both you, (if you transport the cylinder) and for the employee that
agreed to fill the tank (he knows better). Don't fight it, just comply with
it...
Now is probably a good time to again mention that refilling the
"un-refillable" cylinders is a very bad idea too.... This is still being
done by a few adults that do not know any better but should.... The savings
are not worth the risk....
--
Jay Walker
Ted Peterson
i.e. gas grills and such. Perfect example of the government
'protecting' us from a pretty much non-existent problem. But golly, I
feel so much safer now.
Cheryl Isaak
6724e490.02051...@posting.google.com, "Ted Peterson"
<tedpet...@aol.com> wrote:
Make that protecting us from our selves or the idiots next door!
Jay Walker
"Cheryl Isaak" <chery...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:B90DA5D0.48D8%chery...@adelphia.net...
propane tank... Might want to do a little research before you determine that
the problem is "non-existent"... Believe it on not, sometimes the safety
rules do make sense... Only an idiot would find a way to get around them,
especially when youth are involved.... (and we already have one idiot we
know that lives next door)
Tanks designed for use on industrial trucks, for industrial welding and
cutting gases are indeed exempt from the regulations BUT they must be
"labeled for their intended use" and likely must be manufactured to
additional ASME listed requirements if they are to be transported in a motor
vehicle.... most already have OPD's anyway....
Start you search at:
http://www.nfpa.org/Research/NFPAFactSheets/NFPAFactSheets.asp
(see the Gas/Fuel header) If you are interested in "the rest of the
story"....
Note that I removed the cross-post on this response... Lets see if the ones
making light of the safety rules are on our newsgroup....
--
Jay Walker
wal...@scoutcpr.org
www.scoutcpr.org
MCCET
The person who filled my new tank was a pretty young lady without any
safety equipment. She was grousing about how the public was blaming
her for the new rules.
She had No eye protection or blowoff shield like a rubberized apron.
Go fiqure...
MCCET
Q: What is an overfilling prevention device?
A: As defined by the National Fire Protection Association's Pamphlet
58 - LP-Gas Code, 1998 Edition (Code), it is..."A safety device that
is designed to provide an automatic means to prevent the filling of a
container in excess of the maximum permitted filling limit."
Found on the web.
See whole article at
http://www.grillman.com/regulations.html#q2
Q: What does the Code require?
A: For propane cylinders* in the 4 lb. through 40 lb. propane capacity
range, the Code requires for them to be equipped with an OPD, as
follows: New cylinders for vapor service which are fabricated after
September 30, 1998; as cylinders are requalified after September 30,
1998 through March 31, 2002; effective April 1, 2002, before a
cylinder is filled. *All references to "cylinders" applies to only
those in the 4 lb. through 40 lb. propane capacity range. Also, the
last page of this document contains information on the service life
and inspection of cylinders.
Ted Peterson
I understand it, the problem isn't with the tanks (obviously) but the
competency of the individual filling the tank and the equipment they
use. As usual, pass the hat around to subsidize idiots.
Cheryl Isaak
> Cheryl Isaak <chery...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:<B90DA5D0.48D8%chery...@adelphia.net>...
>> On 5/19/02 4:48 PM, in article
>> 6724e490.02051...@posting.google.com, "Ted Peterson"
>> <tedpet...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That's correct, the legislation applies to tanks for domestic purposes
>>> i.e. gas grills and such. Perfect example of the government
>>> 'protecting' us from a pretty much non-existent problem. But golly, I
>>> feel so much safer now.
>> Make that protecting us from our selves or the idiots next door!
>
> What, was there some sort of epidemic of backyard grill atrocities? As
> I understand it, the problem isn't with the tanks (obviously) but the
> competency of the individual filling the tank and the equipment they
> use. As usual, pass the hat around to subsidize idiots.
Thank you - that is exactly what I was talking about! Yup - neighbor gets a
welding tank to fire up the gas grill. Same one who tried to take a limb
off a tree - 25 feet up, 6-8 inch diameter with a 12 inch pruning saw on a
ladder braced at the limb. And the kids outside running around near the
tree.
C
Cheryl Isaak
"Cheryl Isaak" <chery...@adelphia.net> wrote:
Sorry - I am trying to type to fast with only one thumb (2 stitches in one
makes for tough typing)
He tried to get a welding tank for his gas grill!
Cheryl
jbr...@aros.net
>What, was there some sort of epidemic of backyard grill atrocities?
On the local news, they said that last year there were 60 people injured
due to tanks not being filled properly. Frankly, that ain't much, and like
you said, it mostly the inept people who try to fill them which cause the
problem.
Just another example of government out of control, and in our face.
John
Tom J
> > Thank you - that is exactly what I was talking about! Yup - neighbor
gets a
> > welding tank to fire up the gas grill. Same one who tried to take a
limb
> > off a tree - 25 feet up, 6-8 inch diameter with a 12 inch pruning saw
on a
> > ladder braced at the limb. And the kids outside running around near
the
> > tree.
> > C
> >
> Sorry - I am trying to type to fast with only one thumb (2 stitches in
one
> makes for tough typing)
So, the limb got your thumb? I suggest you get a tree trimmer to do the
job next time. :-)
Tom J
Adam tohill
face.....talk about ruining your day
<jbr...@aros.net> wrote in message
news:3ce91009$1$woehfu$mr2...@news.aros.net...
jbr...@aros.net
>years". The problem is US is way behind the times on gas containers and
>should have up-dated to what is the standard in the rest of world 20
>years ago.
I grow weary of people telling the US to downgrade to world standards. The
incident rate is negligible with regards to overfilling tanks, and if
someone wants to make a case, then they would at least phase out the older
tanks, not make them instantly obsolete with the swipe of the governmental
pen.
In case no one has noticed, the United States of America was, at one time,
configured differently than every other country on the planet, with
regards to government and control of the citizens. Sadly, everyone seems
determined to change it into an third world country, and it seems to be
working.
John
one@home.com Wade
<jbr...@aros.net> wrote in message
news:3ce91156$2$woehfu$mr2...@news.aros.net...
>
> In case no one has noticed, the United States of America was, at one time,
> configured differently than every other country on the planet, with
> regards to government and control of the citizens. Sadly, everyone seems
> determined to change it into an third world country, and it seems to be
> working.
>
> John
>
Wade
Cheryl Isaak
9%9G8.25893$D41.8...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net, "Tom J"
<tomj...@att.net> wrote:
Nay - lost my whittling chip - sliced my thumb doing the dishes Friday
afternoon! Two stitches right next to the nail. OUCH - but I did manage to
drive myself to the ER! Of course it was awards night to boot! ;)
The neighbor did end up almost falling out of the tree though! I know
enough to get the pros in for certain jobs!
Cheryl
jbr...@aros.net
>I do not know about you but I do not want 20lbs of gas exploding in my
>face.....talk about ruining your day
If the tank is overfilled, it does not explode when it leaks out, it
catches fire. Its not a fatal problem and there were no deaths attributed.
If the leak starts a fire, you just put it out with your fire
extinguisher. You do have one handy when you are using the BBQ, right???
When we all decide we don't want any responsibility for ourselves, when we
figure we don't want to think at all, then we can just turn it all over to
the government, and they will take really good care of us, from cradle to
grave.
There are no guarantees in life.
John
Tom J
<jbr...@aros.net> wrote in message
news:3ce91ad3$3$woehfu$mr2...@news.aros.net...
> :
>
> >I do not know about you but I do not want 20lbs of gas exploding in my
> >face.....talk about ruining your day
>
> If the tank is overfilled, it does not explode when it leaks out, it
> catches fire. Its not a fatal problem and there were no deaths
attributed.
> If the leak starts a fire, you just put it out with your fire
> extinguisher.
O-boy!! Going to take a fire extinguisher and put out a 20# propane tank
that is on fire wile spewing liquid propane gas from being overfilled.
Get a like man, cus it ain't gonna happen. It take a foam applicator fire
truck to put one out once it gets going, UNLESS it has the new OPD valve
which would shut off gas flow if too muck was coming out.
Tom J
Tom J
jbr...@aros.net
>O-boy!! Going to take a fire extinguisher and put out a 20# propane tank
>that is on fire wile spewing liquid propane gas from being overfilled.
>Get a like man, cus it ain't gonna happen. It take a foam applicator
>fire truck to put one out once it gets going, UNLESS it has the new OPD
>valve which would shut off gas flow if too muck was coming out.
Everyone to their own opinion. Your description of the failure mode is
quite humorous.
If there is any chance of danger, better to just stay in bed than live
life intelligently.
Thanks,
John
Adam tohill
USA then get the hell out, one less person competing for jobs.
<jbr...@aros.net> wrote in message
news:3ce933d4$1$woehfu$mr2...@news.aros.net...
Ted Peterson
> It is amazing you have not had more gas container accidents.
Not at all. A moments thought and you will immediately realize there
isn't anything wrong with the tanks themselves. If there was, rest
assured the tanks themselves would be banned -- "Stop using the tank
immediately!" It's no big deal to me, but I hate people spreading
incorrect information.
jbr...@aros.net
>Well I got an idea....pack up and move.....if you do not like the Good
>Old USA then get the hell out, one less person competing for jobs.
You don't even know what the USA is all about, how it got here, and you
certainly are not able to see where it is going. In fact, you are what is
wrong with the USA.
You may now have the final, snooty comment, as I have better things to do
than deal with children such as yourself.
John
Jim Marker
> truck to put one out once it gets going, UNLESS it has the new OPD valve
> which would shut off gas flow if too muck was coming out.
The OPD's don't contain an excess flow device that I know of. The first
fitting they connect to usually does the excess flow control (just like with
the old POL tanks). How would the OPD valve know what excess flow was? If
I use a propane salamander heater I can suck a 20# cylinder to a block of
ice (if I am not carefull) with or without an OPD tank, surly this would be
an excess flow condition for the valve if it had an excess flow control?
I think the most likely event for someone to get injured by propane is a
freeze burn from getting sprayed by liquid propane (which the acme fitting
valves pretty much eliminated). Fire fighters have some big risk from a
boiling liquid vapor explosion (BLVE), but the relief valve should help
prevent that, and most FD's are more than adequatly concerned when a propane
tank is involved.
The OPD makes sense to put onto tanks, since the cost isn't any greater than
any other valve, but the regulation to say no more old fasion valves does
not protect anyone from anything. Any one with a home propane tank (500#'s
or so and up) should now be able to get a liquid leg fill kit to fill your
own OPD tanks. The reason that was always given to keep you from filling
your own was that it was dangerous to fill 20# pigs because you could
overfill them, that is now impossible with OPD.
<<SNIP SNIP>>
Ken
A 2A10BC rated or better fire extinguisher will extinguish a fire from a #20
l.p. gas container. Problem is, then there is invisible l.p. gas looking for
another ignition source. When it finds it, OOOOPS!!!!!
If at all possible and the grill has been set an appreciable distance from
any exposures (as recommended buy the manufacture, the local fire
department, and Fire Prevention Bureau) let it burn until the Fire
Department arrives. Depending on the conditions, they may let it burn its
self out.
Ken
"Tom J" <tomj...@att.net> wrote in message
news:qQbG8.32997$Vm2.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Adam tohill
were it is going. But I suppose that you, the "all knowing ass-fuck of the
world" will tell me what you think....I suppose that your
great-great-great-great grandfather was George Washington......no wait your
great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather was Christopher
Columbus.....I am so glad to share this world with people like you...you
know the type... the type that want things handed to them on a silver
plate......
<jbr...@aros.net> wrote in message
news:3ce9551f$1$woehfu$mr2...@news.aros.net...
one@home.com Wade
"Adam tohill" <tohi...@osu.edu> wrote in message
news:acc35a$oa5s1$1...@ID-144046.news.dfncis.de...
> I sure as hell do know what the USA is about. I know how it got here. I
know
> were it is going. But I suppose that you, the "all knowing ass-fuck of the
> world" will tell me what you think....I suppose that your
> great-great-great-great grandfather was George Washington......no wait
your
> great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather was Christopher
> Columbus.....I am so glad to share this world with people like you...you
> know the type... the type that want things handed to them on a silver
> plate......
>
>
PLONK
I am he as you are he as we are altogether
>Immature imbecile
>PLONK
Oh my God! You've been "Plonked". Not to worry, he's one of those
yahoos that thinks that no only is America for everyone but that it
needs to look like everyone's homeland. These whiners think that the
slime who are escaping their wretched homeland rather than trying to
make it better don't need to learn American ways but that we need to
learn their ways to make them welcome. Barf!
Marc Antony
my home town was refilling a tank without the safety device. It leaked.
The gas caught a spark from an old refrigerator (so the investigators say)
and the resulting blast leveled his establishment. All they found of him
was his left hand and part of a foot. I saw the explosion from 2 miles
away.
Hobdbcgv
>another ignition source. When it finds it, OOOOPS!!!!!
and unlike natural gas, propane is heavier than air, and since its cloud tends
to "hang together" coming cold out of the tank, leaking propane gas is as
likely to fill the spaces under things and be trapped as it is to dissipate
into the air - and OOPS is then quite often BOOM.
cwg
Where's the NRA when you really need them?
MCCET
MCCET :))
On Thu, 23 May 2002 15:59:58 -0500, "cwg" <c...@nomailplease.com>
wrote:
I am he as you are he as we are altogether
wrote:
>Goll darn it. Aren't gas tanks covered under the second ammendment?
>Where's the NRA when you really need them?
Alas, they fall under the category of "Destructive Devices" and are
covered by the NFA. Be quiet or you'll be hit with a $200 tax just
to own one.
Hobdbcgv
NJF
David Perkins
wood! Just go out and chop a tree down and burn it! BUT then comes low
impact camping and no open fires. Spoils all the fun! ha ha But then again
I am getting to the age that prunes are part of my diet!(you don't need fire
for that)
"Phil Schuman" <pschuma...@interserv.com> wrote in message
news:ac6j1h$sea$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> FYI -
> For those that use the 20lb propane tanks,
> for group camping or backyard BBQ grills,
> please be aware that some states now require
> a new internal Overfill Protection Device (OPD).
>
> If you have not re-filled your tank in the last year,
> this will be a big suprise - they will NOT refill it -
> You have to buy a NEW tank -
> or exchange for a new one - with the OPD -
>
> Just wanted to pass this along,
> as yup - we were caught today :)
>
> Phil -
>
>
>
>
I am he as you are he as we are altogether
<dbpe...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>Hmm .....Boy Scouts using propane? Geez wiz In my younger days Scouts used
>wood! Just go out and chop a tree down and burn it! BUT then comes low
>impact camping and no open fires. Spoils all the fun! ha ha But then again
>I am getting to the age that prunes are part of my diet!(you don't need fire
>for that)
There used to be a commercial on MTV in which a father was lecturing
his son, "Don't do this and don't do that." The son says, "But Dad
you did all those things." The father replies, "Yes but we used up
all the fun." That's what's happened. Fun been changed into
prepackaged, prepared activities. Camp here, poop there, don't
collect rocks, etc, etc, etc..
D
They do have an excess flow valve and its on the side of the valve. It can
be opened with a flat-head screw driver. The point of the valve is to not
let the tank fill above 75-80 percent of total capacity. The reason for this
is obvious to those not inept of intelligence. When propane gets hot it
expands and when grilling on hot days, 100% fill can't expand much therefore
starts to leak and possibly catching fire.
The new tanks are much safer, but only to those people who know how to use
them. The older valves tend not to have the screwable excess valve, and you
need to be quite intelligent of the product in order to fill them.
The new OPD's are good and safe, but not necessarily pertinent.
Overall I say get em any way.
"Jim Marker" <jim_markerNO...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tIeG8.37836$yl.47...@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
Gary S.
>What are you talking about?
>They do have an excess flow valve and its on the side of the valve. It can
>be opened with a flat-head screw driver. The point of the valve is to not
>let the tank fill above 75-80 percent of total capacity. The reason for this
>is obvious to those not inept of intelligence. When propane gets hot it
>expands and when grilling on hot days, 100% fill can't expand much therefore
>starts to leak and possibly catching fire.
>
>The new tanks are much safer, but only to those people who know how to use
>them. The older valves tend not to have the screwable excess valve, and you
>need to be quite intelligent of the product in order to fill them.
>
>The new OPD's are good and safe, but not necessarily pertinent.
>
>Overall I say get em any way.
>
Not a choice. All new tanks sold in the last couple of years have
them, and as of this year, you cannot get old non-OPD ones refilled.
Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence
Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom
Rick Courtright
> welding tank to fire up the gas grill. Same one who tried to take a limb
> off a tree - 25 feet up, 6-8 inch diameter with a 12 inch pruning saw on a
Can you say "Darwin works, he's just a little slow sometimes."?
Rick
MiamiXJ
<jbr...@aros.net> wrote in message
news:3ce91009$1$woehfu$mr2...@news.aros.net...
> >
> >What, was there some sort of epidemic of backyard grill atrocities?
>
> On the local news, they said that last year there were 60 people injured
> due to tanks not being filled properly. Frankly, that ain't much, and like
> you said, it mostly the inept people who try to fill them which cause the
> problem.
>
> Just another example of government out of control, and in our face.
>
> John
Jim Marker
Flow does not equal fill.
Excess flow devices limit flow to a set maximum (even with an open pipe
somewhere the flow won't go above so much) or turn off the flow entirely if
a maximum is reached. Often excess flow devices are just an orfice, they
are also required by life safety codes for lots of bulk gasses piped into
building. An excess flow device has nothing to do with filling up the tank
it has to do with making the tank empty at a set rate or less.
"D" <D...@d.com> wrote in message
news:p8RJ8.165279$Po6.3...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
TexLady
> They do have an excess flow valve and its on the side of the valve. It can
> be opened with a flat-head screw driver. The point of the valve is to not
> let the tank fill above 75-80 percent of total capacity. The reason for this
> is obvious to those not inept of intelligence. When propane gets hot it
> expands and when grilling on hot days, 100% fill can't expand much therefore
> starts to leak and possibly catching fire.
>
The valve you are referring to in not an excess flow valve. The liquid
level guage or spew guage is located on the side of the service valve.
This valve is to let the person filling the bottle know when the
liquid level has reached 80%. It will do nothing more to prevent
overfilling of the bottle. The size of this opening is very small.
There is no way propane could flow out through it at a rate anywhere
near the rate it is pumped in.
Try filling a gallon jar with the water hose full flow, use a soda
straw to remove the water. The propane would be pumped much faster
than the water hose, and the spew gauge is MUCH smaller than the soda
straw.
Many of the new QCC connections, often associated with OPD's have an
excess flow valve built in. This is designed to stop the flow of gas
in the event of line valure. If a line breaks the increased flow
overtakes a spring loaded valve to stop the escaping gas.
Andrew Small
>>The system that is used to determine if the liquid level in the tank
is at a capacity of 80% is not fool proof. If you have ever seen a
valve seperate from the tank you would know that the little straw type
device can break off. The result of this could be overfilling the
bottle. When filling a propane tank a weight scale should always,
always be used. It is impossible to know how much propane is in the
tank before or after unless a scale is used.
Ken
Check this site (Consumer Products Safety Commission) out for an explanation
for the OPD requirements.
Ken
"Andrew Small" <sma...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1eceab3f.02061...@posting.google.com...
TexLady
> >>The system that is used to determine if the liquid level in the tank
> is at a capacity of 80% is not fool proof. If you have ever seen a
> valve seperate from the tank you would know that the little straw type
> device can break off. The result of this could be overfilling the
> bottle. When filling a propane tank a weight scale should always,
> always be used. It is impossible to know how much propane is in the
> tank before or after unless a scale is used.
I agree 100%. I have also seen cylinders that have had the valve
replace with the wrong size dip tube.
The only way to be really sure is with an accurate scale.
Steve B.
said they couldn't fill it because it wasn't an OPD tank.
I went down the street, and the next station filled it.
Go figger.
Nothing like common sense in this world when all else fails. The guy at the
second station had probably been filling tanks for a long time, and either
didn't know about the law, or saw nothing wrong with filling a one year old
tank the old fashioned way.
Steve
pmhi...@mfx.net
If the tank's only a year old, it more than likely has the new safety valve &
the first guy didn't recognize it.
Yours in the north Maine woods,
Pete Hilton
--
If A = Success, then the formula is
A=X+Y+Z where X=work; Y=play;
Z= keep your mouth shut.
A. Einstein (1955)
one@home.com Wade
"Steve B." <DesertT...@lvcm.com> wrote in message
news:9VtY8.61149$P%6.41...@news2.west.cox.net...
> I went the other day to have a tank filled that was a year old. The guy
> said they couldn't fill it because it wasn't an OPD tank.
>
> I went down the street, and the next station filled it.
>
> Go figger.
>
absolutely must have them, if you are in Canada, you will encounter people
that confuse portable tanks with built in tanks.
Wade
Ted Peterson
know where to go.
Steve B.
<pmhi...@mfx.net> wrote in message news:3D32982F...@mfx.net...
Nah. The new ones with the OPDs have a triangular knob on it. This one was
just a round handled knob. Still almost new.
Steve
Steve B.
"Wade" <No o...@home.com> wrote in message
news:yaDY8.53986$pi1.4...@news2.calgary.shaw.ca...
I do not understand. If they absolutely must have them, why can you get old
style tanks filled at a lot of places?
Steve
one@home.com Wade
>
> > >
> > Depends what country you are in, at this point the US is the only place
> that
> > absolutely must have them, if you are in Canada, you will encounter
people
> > that confuse portable tanks with built in tanks.
> > Wade
> >
> >
>
> I do not understand. If they absolutely must have them, why can you get
old
> style tanks filled at a lot of places?
>
> Steve
>
for substantial penalty's to refill portable tanks without OPD valves,
Canada on OTH has no such requirement except for the 10 year refurbishing
requirement, however OPD portable tanks are widely in use at this point.
Wade
Ken
automatic weapon without a license. Go figure.
Ken
"Steve B." <DesertT...@lvcm.com> wrote in message
news:aqGY8.63645$P%6.42...@news2.west.cox.net...
Tom J
>
> Nah. The new ones with the OPDs have a triangular knob on it. This one
was
> just a round handled knob. Still almost new.
Maybe new to you, but that tank was made before 1997. It's been illegal
to manufacturer tanks without OPD valves since then.
Tom J
The Walrus is Paul
>I'm not certain of your question, the US law is federally mandated and calls
>for substantial penalty's to refill portable tanks without OPD valves,
>Canada on OTH has no such requirement except for the 10 year refurbishing
>requirement, however OPD portable tanks are widely in use at this point.
>Wade
How can the Federal government mandate a specific type of valve? It
isn't interstate commerce. Sounds like the Feds overstepping their
bounds again.
Steve B.
"Tom J" <tomj...@att.net> wrote in message
news:mlMY8.104441$UT.67...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Ahhhh. The comforting feeling of big government protecting us stupid
citizens from ourselves.
Steve
Joseph Vlietstra
> How can the Federal government mandate a specific type of valve? It
> isn't interstate commerce. Sounds like the Feds overstepping their
> bounds again.
OPD requirement is from National Fire Protection Association (NFPA)
Liquefied Petroleum Gas Code (www.nfpa.org) not the Federal Government.
NFPA is a consensus organization that publishes a lot of industry
standards (e.g., National Electric Code).
Anyway, the LPG code standardizes a lot of LPG components -- it's the
reason the 20 lb propane tank from one manufacturer will work with the
gas grill from another manufacturer. The LPG code (section 2-3.1.5)
requires OPDs on LPG cylinders manufactured after September 30, 1998.
LPG cylinders without OPD would not be refilled after April 1, 2002.
An LPG cylinder may be retrofitted with an OPD but it's about the
same cost to replace a 20 lb tank as retrofit it with an OPD.
I don't know the story behind the OPD requirement. I suspect an LPG
cylinder burst due to overfill and the manufacturer was sued.
YiS
Joe Vl
Sonof Ravenson
"Steve B." wrote:
> Ahhhh. The comforting feeling of big government protecting us stupid
> citizens from ourselves.
As a libertarian, I'm not in favor of such government mandates. This
law has more to due with protecting the citizens from stupid propane
dealers. Holding dealers fully responsibile for the consequences of
overfilling tanks would be a more libertarian solution.
John O
old
> style tanks filled at a lot of places?
Enforcement??? Who's in charge of enforcing this new requirement? Heck, the
fed can't even enforce SEC rules, nor USDA rules very well...Where's Hank
Hill when we need him? :-)
John O
The Walrus is Paul
wrote:
>The Walrus is Paul wrote:
>
>> How can the Federal government mandate a specific type of valve? It
>> isn't interstate commerce. Sounds like the Feds overstepping their
>> bounds again.
>
>
>OPD requirement is from National Fire Protection Association (NFPA)
>Liquefied Petroleum Gas Code (www.nfpa.org) not the Federal Government.
>NFPA is a consensus organization that publishes a lot of industry
>standards (e.g., National Electric Code).
So we have are pronouncements from an non-governmental organization
that we are led to believe have the force of law?
The NFPA isn't even that big, 75,000 members. We might as wll let the
BMWCCA and the PCA set the traffic laws.
Steve Schulte
> >> How can the Federal government mandate a specific type of valve? It
> >> isn't interstate commerce. Sounds like the Feds overstepping their
> >> bounds again.
> >
> >
> >OPD requirement is from National Fire Protection Association (NFPA)
> >Liquefied Petroleum Gas Code (www.nfpa.org) not the Federal Government.
> >NFPA is a consensus organization that publishes a lot of industry
> >standards (e.g., National Electric Code).
>
> So we have are pronouncements from an non-governmental organization
> that we are led to believe have the force of law?
>
> The NFPA isn't even that big, 75,000 members. We might as wll let the
> BMWCCA and the PCA set the traffic laws.
>
The standards of the NFPA and other bodies such as IAPMO habve the effect of
laws when they are implemented as part of the Building and Commercial Codes
implemented by local ordinances across the nation. The local government
references the UBC or NEC in an ordinance that applies to the construction
of housing instead of writting the several thousand pages of text
themselves. The local jurisdictions may and do modify the code for local
conditions. NFPA standards are used by the local fire authorities in fire
inspections. The insurance companies use the UL standards in their
investigations of losses. These are used as independent standards to judge
whether a violation has occurred in the judgement of the code compliance
officer of the local jurisdiction. The law is the ordinance and the
standard is NFPA standard, such that the lawyers can argue the intent of the
standard and its interpretation.
The US DOT regulates the interstate transport of cylinders. Cylinders are
not manufactured and used entirely within a state in all cases. I recently
exchanged two non-OPD cylinders for newer OPD cylinders and received one
that had been labeled as having paid the Oklahoma tax. I live in Colorado.
And if you exchange the cylinders every five years, then you are not caught
with a cylinder that has not been inspected frequently, and that is in
better condition to contain the Liquified Petroleum Gas (LPG).
Steve Schulte
Troop 576 Broomfield, CO
Steve B.
the human approach. When I have a tank filled, I stand there, and tell the
man how much I (heavy emphasis on the word I) want him to put in the tank.
If a person is having their tank filled, and does not personally supervise
its filling, they are forfeiting all their control of the situation. YOU
are in control of how much they put into the tank. YOU have control by
withholding money until they do it right. YOU have the control and right to
go down the street.
I have had stupid persons do stupid things while filling tanks, but never
had a situation where I left with anything but what I wanted. If more
people were informed and insisted on getting their due, there would be less
need for governmental meddling.
Steve
"Sonof Ravenson" <thes...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:3D341221...@pacbell.net...
Jay Walker
"The Walrus is Paul" <m...@me.com> wrote in message
news:3d343322...@news.erols.com...
> BMWCCA and the PCA set the traffic laws.
>
Yo Troll... do just a little research... Obviously, you know next to nothing
about this issue... And learned nothing after your last posts about propane
safety.
BTW, the NFPA does not "make laws"... However, "government agencies having
jurisdiction" often do indeed adopt the provisions of selected NFPA "codes"
as laws.... Check out:
http://www.nfpa.org/Research/NFPAFactSheets/NFPAFactSheets.asp
(see the Gas/Fuel header) If you are interested in "the rest of the
story"....
Believe it on not, often the safety rules do make sense... Only an idiot
would try to find a way to get around them, especially when youth are
involved....
--
Jay Walker
The Walrus is Paul
<wwwa...@sp.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Yo Troll... do just a little research... Obviously, you know next to nothing
>about this issue... And learned nothing after your last posts about propane
>safety.
Then explain it to me, fuckface.
>BTW, the NFPA does not "make laws"... However, "government agencies having
>jurisdiction" often do indeed adopt the provisions of selected NFPA "codes"
>as laws.... Check out:
"As of April 1, 2002, OPDs are required on all
propane cylinders between 4 and 40 pounds
propane capacity, per the 1998 edition of NFPA
58, Liquefied Petroleum Gas Code. Cylinders of this size manufactured
after September 30, 1998, were required to have an OPD. A typical gas
grill cylinder holds about 20 pounds of propane."
Explain to me why we need to obey the rules laid out by a trade
association. Did all 50 states vote to adopt this? When did this
happen? Are there state laws that require the immediate compliance
with a trade association's mandates.
Ken
tanks. Its the convience stores that employ minimum wage persons to fill
tanks.
Halon
"Sonof Ravenson" <thes...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:3D341221...@pacbell.net...
>
The Walrus is Paul
<wwwa...@sp.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Believe it on not, often the safety rules do make sense... Only an idiot
>would try to find a way to get around them, especially when youth are
>involved....
You see, fuckface, that doesn't surprise me coming from someone like
you. Codified safety rules are for idiots who can't think for
themselves. You probably like seatbelt laws, helmet laws, and
probably would have supported the ban on smoking in bed.
Jay Walker
> On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:43:52 -0500, "Jay Walker"
> <wwwa...@sp.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >Yo Troll... do just a little research... Obviously, you know next to
nothing
> >about this issue... And learned nothing after your last posts about
propane
> >safety.
>
>
> >BTW, the NFPA does not "make laws"... However, "government agencies
having
> >jurisdiction" often do indeed adopt the provisions of selected NFPA
"codes"
> >as laws.... Check out:
>
> "As of April 1, 2002, OPDs are required on all
> propane cylinders between 4 and 40 pounds
> propane capacity, per the 1998 edition of NFPA
> 58, Liquefied Petroleum Gas Code. Cylinders of this size manufactured
> after September 30, 1998, were required to have an OPD. A typical gas
> grill cylinder holds about 20 pounds of propane."
>
> Explain to me why we need to obey the rules laid out by a trade
> association. Did all 50 states vote to adopt this? When did this
> happen? Are there state laws that require the immediate compliance
> with a trade association's mandates.
Be aware that your language is not at all appreciated and is inappropriate
for this newsgroup which is frequented by youth members....
The NFPA is NOT a trade organization... You might find the link I provide
helpful though:
http://www.nfpa.org/Research/NFPAFactSheets/NFPAFactSheets.asp
Those that are interested my find the home page of the NFPA useful.... from
the National Electrical Code to "Sparky" the fire dog... this organization
does a lot to help protect you and your family... http://www.nfpa.org The
"kids" section is entertaining and educational too.
--
Jay Walker
wwwa...@ix.netcom.com
Bruce Burke
OK, but where is the money going to come from to hire the army of
inspectors to oversee, enforce, and penalize the thousands of fill
stations across the country??
Regards,
Bruce
Hitting reply is futile, use the following:
.(wb4...@juno.com).
The Walrus is Paul
<wwwa...@sp.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Be aware that your language is not at all appreciated and is inappropriate
>for this newsgroup which is frequented by youth members....
You aren't around kids too much are you, fuckface? Their language is
much worse than mine. Would you rather that I call you fuckhead?
>The NFPA is NOT a trade organization... You might find the link I provide
>helpful though:
>http://www.nfpa.org/Research/NFPAFactSheets/NFPAFactSheets.asp
Been there and read it long before you did. Trade
association/club/professional society, what does the tag matter? It
is still a bunch of fat guys, smoking cigars telling us how to run our
lives with us having voted for them.
Sonof Ravenson
Bruce Burke wrote:
> OK, but where is the money going to come from to hire the army of
> inspectors to oversee, enforce, and penalize the thousands of fill
> stations across the country??
You're missing the point. There would be no army of inspectors.
There would be no penalty for overfilling a propane tank, only
financial responsibility for damages caused by an overfilled
tank. As someone else pointed out, the consumer also has some
responsibility. It would be up to a judge or jury to decide
who should be held accountable.
Steve B.
"Bruce Burke" <I...@dont.know> wrote in message
news:3d355b7e....@newshost.corp.mot.com...
>
> OK, but where is the money going to come from to hire the army of
> inspectors to oversee, enforce, and penalize the thousands of fill
> stations across the country??
>
> Regards,
>
> Bruce
> Hitting reply is futile, use the following:
> .(wb4...@juno.com).
From your tax dollars. Someone decided that after us stupid consumers
dealing with propane for nearly a century that we needed government's help
with costly devices, laws, and enforcement. It is the liberal Democratic
way.
Steve
Jay Walker
> On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 02:04:36 -0500, "Jay Walker"
> <wwwa...@sp.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >Be aware that your language is not at all appreciated and is
inappropriate
> >for this newsgroup which is frequented by youth members....
>
> >helpful though:
http://www.nfpa.org/Research/NFPAFactSheets/NFPAFactSheets.asp
>
> Been there and read it long before you did. Trade
> association/club/professional society, what does the tag matter? It
> is still a bunch of fat guys, smoking cigars telling us how to run our
> lives with us having voted for them.
>
>
What do you think the odds are that regular contributors to this news group
ARE members... I know of at least one.
Ever wonder why the equipment from one fire department will "always" connect
to the neighboring communities fire hydrant?... or why you can not plug your
computer into the electrical service installed for your clothes dryer?...
Maybe you should check out the NFPA site again... http://www.nfpa.org
If you ever expect to smell the roses, you will need to first pull your head
out of your butt... Have a nice day and please consider Trolling
elsewhere...
--
Jay Walker
jbr...@aros.net
>OK, but where is the money going to come from to hire the army of
>inspectors to oversee, enforce, and penalize the thousands of fill
>stations across the country??
So the only way that people will obey the law anymore is if there are
inspectors, police officers, and other law enforcement agents watching
their every move and making sure that no one violates that law???
Perhaps this is a sign of what is going sadly wrong in this country (USA)
No one will obey a law that they disagree with, unless someone is watching
them do it. "If no one sees you run the red light, you didn't break the
law?"
If the sign says "no camping," you can't camp there, regardless of whether
someone is watching you.
Yea, its a way stupid law, for stupid reasons, foisted upon us by stupid
lawmakers, but let's face it, if you are not supposed to refill a DOT tank
unless it has the OPD, then don't refill it.
If you don't like the law, you get it changed, but a civilized society
doesn't just obey the laws they pick and choose, or anarchy will result
(seems like where we are headed)
John
The Walrus is Paul
>So the only way that people will obey the law anymore is if there are
>inspectors, police officers, and other law enforcement agents watching
>their every move and making sure that no one violates that law???
Why do you think they have so many state troopers on the interstates.
Come on, this country was started by a bunch of law breakers. We're
just keeping up the tradition.
>If you don't like the law, you get it changed, but a civilized society
>doesn't just obey the laws they pick and choose, or anarchy will result
>(seems like where we are headed)
Sorry but we have an obligation to disobey bad laws.
Steve B.
<jbr...@aros.net> wrote in message
news:3d35dcfc$1$woehfu$mr2...@news.giganews.com...
And a society that mindlessly follows bad laws and legislators are like
lemmings headed for a cliff. Sorry, but the test of time has borne this out
for many "civilized societies" over the centuries. If being civilized means
that I relinquish all common sense, and have to have someone else define and
determine it for me, then, put me in the anarchist column come the next
census.
Steve, the civilized anarchist
> John
one@home.com Wade
>
>
> And a society that mindlessly follows bad laws and legislators are like
> lemmings headed for a cliff. Sorry, but the test of time has borne this
out
> for many "civilized societies" over the centuries. If being civilized
means
> that I relinquish all common sense, and have to have someone else define
and
> determine it for me, then, put me in the anarchist column come the next
> census.
>
> Steve, the civilized anarchist
>
more laws in misguided attempts to have protection against stupidity.
Wade
Steve Schulte
> Sorry but we have an obligation to disobey bad laws.
>
and start a grass roots movement to change the local ordinances on OPD
valves. We all still have an obligation to obey stupid laws until they are
repealed. Such as the slave return laws that were upheld in in Dred Scott
Case.
Bruce Burke
Rather after the fact isn't it? And how would you be able to
conclusively prove that over filling was the problem and not misuse by
the owner? It isn't that straight forward.
And financial responsibility isn't a penalty? Why would we need a law
for that, this would be a civil matter and we already have a system
for that.
Bruce Burke
wrote:
Exactly. Of course, I don't even own a propane grill - so again, I
would be funding the oversight of someone elses stupidity.
Jay Walker
"Steve Schulte" <SteveS...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:2MBZ8.9519$Hj4.48...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
encourage others to comply with them?... Has anyone provided even one shred
of creditable information that OPD valves are anything but a "good" idea? A
venting propane tank is extremely dangerous... the OPD device simply makes
it less likely that the pressure relief feature will ever need to
function... A 20# cylinder venting in the Troop trailer can really ruin your
day. (c:{>
--
Jay Walker
wal...@scoutcpr.org
www.scoutcpr.org
Steve B.
"Bruce Burke" <I...@dont.know> wrote in message
DING! DING! Please hold your phone calls. We DO have a winner!
Steve ;-)
Rick Courtright
> I do not understand. If they absolutely must have them, why can you get old
> style tanks filled at a lot of places?
Civil disobedience born of overregulation sired by ignorance?
Rick
Rick Courtright
> Yea, its a way stupid law, for stupid reasons, foisted upon us by stupid
> lawmakers, but let's face it, if you are not supposed to refill a DOT tank
> unless it has the OPD, then don't refill it.
>
> If you don't like the law, you get it changed, but a civilized society
> doesn't just obey the laws they pick and choose, or anarchy will result
Unquestioned acquiescence to the bad laws of a "Nanny State" does not
imply civilization, but domestication. We can't outlaw stupidity. And
since we can't, all laws trying to protect us from same will probably
cause more inconvenience than they will cause "protection." Reasoned and
peaceful disobedience of bad law is hardly anarchy, though!
Interestingly, though, is how many of these "safety" laws involve
revenue enhancement, either for the government, or an ailing industry.
Rick
The Walrus is Paul
<wwwa...@sp.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Don't we also have the obligation to support laws that are "good" and to
>encourage others to comply with them?... Has anyone provided even one shred
>of creditable information that OPD valves are anything but a "good" idea? A
>venting propane tank is extremely dangerous... the OPD device simply makes
>it less likely that the pressure relief feature will ever need to
>function... A 20# cylinder venting in the Troop trailer can really ruin your
>day. (c:{>
I see that you are one who wants the government to control every
aspect of your life. You probably like seat belt laws and bicycle
helmet laws.
If manufacturers want to use OPDs, fine. If you want to get an OPD
that is also fine. However, why should the government or a trade
association mandate that I need one. Heck, next SAE will declare
that my Whitworth wrenches are illegal.
John O
> aspect of your life. You probably like seat belt laws and bicycle
> helmet laws.
>
They told you that you need an airbag in your car. Do you disobey that law,
too? Or do you drive a Corvair or a Pinto? Buy any 82-octane gas lately,
labeled as 87??? What about the line voltage in your house...do you ignore
that? Be sure you don't let them search your stuff at the airport...
Get real, dude. :-)
John O
Jay Walker
You are going to have a difficult time seeing much of anything until you get
you head out of your butt... Do you have something to add to this
discussion?... like a technical reason why, in your opinion, an OPD is not
necessary...
You can use your Whitworth tools to insure that the connections to your
propane tanks are properly tightened.... remember not to overtighten them
though... the standard is not SAE but NPT (left hand) and the threads are
tapered not straight... also, the fittings include an integral sealing "O"
ring that just needs to be snug to get the job done.
BTW, the NFPA is still NOT a trade association... I thought we cleared that
up. It is indeed a unique organization though...You should spend more time
finding out about what they do and how you benefit... instead of bashing an
organization you obviously know very little about. http://www.nfpa.org
Steve B.
"Rick Courtright" <rcour...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:3D3701DF...@iname.com...
> jbr...@aros.net wrote:
>
> Interestingly, though, is how many of these "safety" laws involve
> revenue enhancement, either for the government, or an ailing industry.
>
> Rick
Follow da' money.
Steve
jbr...@aros.net
>And a society that mindlessly follows bad laws and legislators are like
>lemmings headed for a cliff. Sorry, but the test of time has borne this
>out for many "civilized societies" over the centuries. If being
>civilized means that I relinquish all common sense, and have to have
>someone else define and determine it for me, then, put me in the
>anarchist column come the next census.
>Steve, the civilized anarchist
Oh no, you have it wrong. mindless lemmings are the ones who sit around
and let the bad, stupid laws stay, or even be created in the first place.
I object to being called a mindless because I choose to follow the law.
Where I come from, those who disobey the law are called criminals.
The difference between this nation, and most others, is that we have the
power, and the obligation, to change stupid laws, and to remove idiotic
legislators. Of course we hardly ever do that. Instead we just sit around
and pick and choose the laws we think are worth following. That is where
the mindless and the lemmings come into play.
Its not like this particular ordinance snuck up on us. Its been coming for
about four years. No one took it seriously, no one made a stink, no one
cared, and now that its law, people are choosing to ignore it. I don't
believe that is the way to remain civilized.
It is a stupid law, it is most likely a sweetheart deal for someone's
brother in law that it should never have been allowed to come to pass, but
where do you draw the line between a civilized anarchist and an out and
out anarchist? :-) I guess its highly personalized, but I hope that people
do not begin to ignore the laws against murder or theft just because they
choose to deem them as stupid laws.
IMO, of course <g>
John
The Walrus is Paul
<johno@NoSpam!!!heathkit.com> wrote:
>They told you that you need an airbag in your car. Do you disobey that law,
>too? Or do you drive a Corvair or a Pinto? Buy any 82-octane gas lately,
>labeled as 87??? What about the line voltage in your house...do you ignore
>that? Be sure you don't let them search your stuff at the airport...
>
>Get real, dude. :-)
I don't like airbags so I don't have one. And airport security has
yet to find my ceramic gun.
The Walrus is Paul
<wwwa...@sp.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>BTW, the NFPA is still NOT a trade association...
Sure they aren't.
Joseph Vlietstra
> <wwwa...@sp.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> BTW, the NFPA is still NOT a trade association...
>>
> Sure they aren't.
I don't know how to describe the NFPA but certainly isn't
a trade association or a front for a trade association.
You might being thinking of the Propane Research and
Education Council (PERC, URL www.propanecouncil.org)
or the National Propane Gas Association (NPGA).
In my previous post I guessed that OPDs were a result of
a lawsuit -- I was right. Several people have died from
explosions & fires from overfilled propane tanks without
affecting the propane tank design -- manufacturer simply
settled ($4.8 million for one case in Texas in 1991).
In 1993, a BBQ flared due to a overfilled propane tank
severely burning the cook, Robert Rapier, and a 12-year
-old girl, Kristin Boyd. This was bad enough (severely
burned victims get more money than dead victims).
Worse, it was a Bible study BBQ at the pastors home --
no alcohol involved. The lawsuit filed at Marin County
(CA) Superior Court in 1993 was extended to a class
action suit in 1995 (there are about 100 burn victims a
year). Plaintiffs did not accept a cash settlement
(though their lawyer got $2 million), they got two
changes instead:
-- overfill protection device (OPD) on propane tanks
-- safer propane tank storage on BBQ
(newer BBQs match bottom of propane tank)
David Hogan
Most all convenience stores here have tank exchange programs. You simply
bring your tank and get one already filled in exchange. They have big metal
storage lock boxes outside the door and many will even swap old regulators
for new ones for free. Is this becoming the norm elsewhere?
Visit our SouthEast Camping Discussion
http://pub40.ezboard.com/bsoutheastcamping
"Ken" <kcl...@xtalwind.net> wrote in message
news:nu1Z8.506$7t.5...@newshog.newsread.com...
> Its not necessarily the licensed lpg "dealers" that are overfilling the
> tanks. Its the convience stores that employ minimum wage persons to fill
> tanks.
>
> Halon
>
>
> "Sonof Ravenson" <thes...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:3D341221...@pacbell.net...
Rick Courtright
> Most all convenience stores here have tank exchange programs. You simply
...
> for new ones for free. Is this becoming the norm elsewhere?
Hi,
Don't know if one would call it a norm yet, but it's becoming more
popular in California, particularly at home improvement centers. I've
only heard one caution: if you have a good (meets all regs and current
certification) tank that you've paid $30, $40 or more for, don't trade
it in on one of the exchange tanks--just pay their $19 or so to get
started. They make a lot of money on tanks that way from what I've been
told!
Rick
Steve Schulte
"David Hogan" <david...@leedsalabama.com> wrote in message
news:ujluc9s...@corp.supernews.com...
> In Alabama certification is required to fill an "existing" propane tank.
> Most all convenience stores here have tank exchange programs. You simply
> bring your tank and get one already filled in exchange. They have big
metal
> storage lock boxes outside the door and many will even swap old regulators
> for new ones for free. Is this becoming the norm elsewhere?
>
It is in Colorado. Many of the supermarkets, home improvement warehouses,
convenience stores and gas stations have propane exchange programs. The
difference in costs between an exchange and a purchace of a spare is $33
($49.99 - $16.99).
Also note that the newer Acme threaded valves are compatible with the older
lefthand threaded valves that every is so accustomed to:). And you can swap
out the old end of the Coleman propane tree for the new Acme thread end.
The cost of any out of date certifications and replacements of older valves
is borne in the refill cost. The propane exchange distributor take a chance
that a few of the returns are defective.
Steve Schulte
> They have big metal
> storage lock boxes outside the door and many will even swap old regulators
> for new ones for free. Is this becoming the norm elsewhere?
>
Continuing some of my comments.
Blue Rhino, a cylinder exchange company, claims in their annual report that
there are 80 million cylinder transactions a year in the US. The market for
refilling and/or exchanging cylinders is a one Billion dollar market. These
numbers are from the Barbeque Industry Association (BIA). Currently they
estimate that only 25% of the customers exchange their cylinders instead of
refilling. So 70% still refill, but of those who switch to exchanging, 90%
never go back.
Blue Rhino claims to have 50% of the exchange market, with 27,000 outlets
and 6.3 million exchanges. AmeriGas through its Prefilled Propane eXchange
brand claims 18,000 outlets. Blue Rhino operates in 46 states plus Puerto
Rico, and PPX is available in 46 states. Blue Rhino has 44 distributors,
while AmeriGas has 600 company owned distributors.
Some other interesting statements.
There are approximately 40 million cylinders out there that need
retrofitting/recertification/inspection. In response, Blue Rhino has
invested $7.5 Million in a plant in North Carolina that fabricates and
retrofits cylinders.
Blue Rhino acquired Bison Valve in 1999, presumably manufacture OPD valves.
According to the National Propane Gas Association (NPGA), 22 states are not
enforcing Pamphlet 58 of the NFPA. The largest market seems to be New York,
Pennsylvania, and Connecticut. California, Florida, Illinois, Ohio and
Texas are enforcing the regulations.
According to the National Propane Gas Association (NPGA), there are about
30,000 OPD valves out there that suffer from inadequate flow. These were
all fitted in the pre-1998 trials.
The NFPA rules were made with input from the BIA and NPGA because they
feared that propane cylinders would be a source of litigation from customers
as happened in California. They looked at liability and negligence aspects
of the problem. The Consumer Product Safety Commision, a government
commision, was looking at rules that would require additional training for
the refill operator (i.e. the Pyle boys of Mayberry) to prevent overfilling
the cylinders. With the OPD valve the cylinder should only receive slightly
more or slightly less than 20 pounds into a 20 pound cylinder depending on
temperature.
Cylinders that have been manufacured or recertified since 30 September, 1998
should have been refitted with a OPD valve. That is almost 4 years ago.
Every cylinder must be inpected every time it is refilled and recertified
every five years after its initial recerification at twelve years. So by
Christmas 2010, there should be no cylinders in the 4 to 40 pound range
without an OPD valve. There are two types of compliant valves.
In the matter that everyone cares about, i.e. the pocketbook, the difference
in cost between a "exchange" cylinder and a "spare" cylinder is about $35 to
$40. I can go to the local home improvement store and purchase a cylinder
for $22.50. The 4 and 10 pound cylinders are more expensive, as is the 40
pound cylinder.
Steve B.
ten bucks ..................or ..................... I can swap it out for
twenty or more.
Wait, Wait. I know the answer to this one.
Count me in the group that has theirs refilled. And not soon to join the
Ben Dover Cylinder Exchange Group.
Steve
PS: Soon the OPD cylinders will be available at yard sales for two to five
bucks, just like the regular ones are now.
"Steve Schulte" <SteveS...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:PnD%8.1332$dK4.11...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
Steve Schulte
> Hmmmmmmm. Lemme see ................. I can refill my tank for less
than
> ten bucks ..................or ..................... I can swap it out
for
> twenty or more.
Or you can invest $8.60 for the valve, install it yourself and continue
refilling, over 70% refill
The price in my area varies around the parking lot at the Home Depot store
from $16.99 to $21.99, sample size three.
Happy Hunter
slow leak. Took it to the local Propane Dealer and had the new valve
installed for 25 bucks. Great investment. The 76 rig can now be legally
filled anywhere and I don't have to drive all over town to find a place to
fill it illegally. I went back to the place that overfilled it and kissed
the guy.
Nate