Lion Cub, what ever happen to it ?
James York
I guess that I am showing my age, I was A cub scout in the mid 60s, the
ranks at that time where Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, Lion and, Weblow. My son
started in Cub scouts this year and I see that the Lion scout went the way
of the dinosaure. Anyone know when and why they did away with the Lion ?
By the way I still have my Lion badge and id card.
R. J. Smith
The Lion/Webeloes program was changed to a two year Webeloes program. I
dropped out of cubs after my Bear year (I rejoined scouting as my son's
Bear DL...). For the most part the skills taught in Lions were absorbed
into the larger Webeloes program, I think.
--
R. J. Smith
ASM Troop 505
All opinions are my own, not of my Troop or CO.
Don De Young
"In 1967, Cub Scouting dropped the Lion rank and extended the Webelos
program from six months to the last year of Cub Scouting, and created
the first 15 Webelos activity badges. In 1977, they added a new Webelos
rank (the old Webelos rank was now called the Arrow of Light rank). In
1987, the Webelos program added five more activity badges (for a total
of 20), and realigned the requirements of several activity badges to
more closely match the requirements for the Boy Scout Tenderfoot rank.
In 1988-89, the Webelos program was expanded to cover the last two years
of Cub Scouting, though the BSA soon after began encouraging packs to
graduate Webelos in February instead of May or June (so they could get
started with a Scout troop before summer, and thus be less likely to
drop out over the summer)."
James York wrote:
> I guess that I am showing my age, I was A cub scout in the mid 60s,
> the
> ranks at that time where Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, Lion and, Weblow. My son
>
> started in Cub scouts this year and I see that the Lion scout went the
> way
> of the dinosaure. Anyone know when and why they did away with the
> Lion ?
> By the way I still have my Lion badge and id card.
I too was a Lion..... and I WISH I still had my Lion Badge!
YiS:
Don
--
.~~~. ))
(\__/) .' ))) Donald De Young - Walnut Creek, CA, USA
/o o \/ .~ Visit the "Virtual Cub Leader's Handbook" at:
{o_, \ { http://www.geocities.com/~pack215/
/ , , ) \ Visit the "MDSC Int'l Committee" Website at:
`~ '-' \ } )) http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/7418/
_( ( )_.' E-mail me at: ba...@value.net
'---..{____}
Stephen M. Henning
> I guess that I am showing my age, I was A cub scout in the mid 60s, the
> ranks at that time where Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, Lion and, Weblow. My son
> started in Cub scouts this year and I see that the Lion scout went the way
> of the dinosaure. Anyone know when and why they did away with the Lion ?
> By the way I still have my Lion badge and id card.
Cub Scouting started as Cubbing, an experimental program in 1930 with 9
year-olds in the Wolf Den, 10 year-olds in the Bear Den and 11 year-olds
in the Lion Den. Cubbing was described as a pre-Scout program. 12
year-olds joined Boy Scouts. The den leaders were Boy Scouts called Den
Chiefs, not adults. In 1932 the Den Mother became an official part of the
program as a co-leader. In 1933 the Cubbing program dropped the
experimental status and was officially adopted. Cubbing became Cub Scouts
in 1948.
The Webelos rank was introduced in 1941 as a rank earned in the Lion Den
after the Lion rank. It indicated a boy was ready to become a Boy Scout.
In 1949 the age level was dropped one year; 8 year-olds in the Wolf Den, 9
year-olds in the Bear Den, and 10 year-olds in the Lion Den. 11 year-olds
joined Boy Scouts. Then in 1954 the Webelos rank was expanded in scope
and the Lion badge was renamed the Lion-Webelos badge. In 1956 the
Webelos Day Camp was introduced.
The Lion program was dropped in 1967 when the Webelos program became the
program for 10 year-olds. The Webelos rank replaced the Lion rank, and
the Arrow of Light replaced the Webelos rank. Also, in 1967, the Bobcat
cloth patch was introduced.Cub Scouting was still a 3 year program until
1982.
In 1982 Tiger Cubs started as a 7 year-old or second grade program. Wolf
was the 8 year-old or third grade program, Bear was the 9 year-old or
fourth grade program, and Webelos was the 10 year-old or fifth grade
program.
In 1986 the Tiger Cub program started for first-grade boys. That same
year the Wolf den was a second-grade and third-grade program.
In 1987 Bear den was a third grade and fourth grade program. Wolf became
a second grade only program.
In 1988 the new fourth grade Webelos program started and the old Webelos
program was used for fifth graders.
In 1989 the first second-year Webelos dens were formed and were for fifth
graders.
--
Cheers, Steve Henning, Reading, Pennsylvania, USA
Correct email address is shen...@fast.net (Please forgive my spam deterrent)
Visit my home page at http://www.users.fast.net/~shenning
Richard Westover
>
> Hello James:
>
> "In 1967, Cub Scouting dropped the Lion rank and extended the Webelos
> program from six months to the last year of Cub Scouting, and created
> the first 15 Webelos activity badges. In 1977, they added a new Webelos
> rank (the old Webelos rank was now called the Arrow of Light rank).
>
I have a question then. Does this mean that between 1967 -1977
a boy that earned the Webelos rank had earned the highest rank in
Cub Scouts ? Would it then be acceptable or not for an adult that
earned the Webelos rank during that time to wear the arrow of light
square now on his adult uniform ? I don't know if there is an
offical policy or just some educated opinions. I guess then the same
questions would apply to the 'Lion' rank before 1967.
Richard Westover
CC Troop 397
Paul S. Wolf
>
> I have a question then. Does this mean that between 1967 -1977
> a boy that earned the Webelos rank had earned the highest rank in
> Cub Scouts ? Would it then be acceptable or not for an adult that
> earned the Webelos rank during that time to wear the arrow of light
> square now on his adult uniform ? I don't know if there is an
> offical policy or just some educated opinions. I guess then the same
> questions would apply to the 'Lion' rank before 1967.
Yes. To all the questions. If you earned the highest rank in Cub
Scouting available while you were in the program, you are entitled to
wear the Arrow of Light Square Knot on your uniform as an adult.
--
Paul S. Wolf, PE mailto:Paul....@alum.wpi.edu
Traffic Engineer, Cuyahoga County Engineer's Office - Cleveland, Ohio
Past President, Great Lakes Region, Federation of Jewish Men's Clubs
Winding Rivers Dist. Advancement Comm., Greater Cleveland Council, BSA
Advancement Webmaster, US Scouting Service Project (www.usscouts.org)
oa...@funtv.com
Richard Westover <west...@mfg.sgi.com> wrote:
> Don De Young wrote:
> >
> > Hello James:
> >
> > "In 1967, Cub Scouting dropped the Lion rank and extended the Webelos
> > program from six months to the last year of Cub Scouting, and created
> > the first 15 Webelos activity badges. In 1977, they added a new Webelos
> > rank (the old Webelos rank was now called the Arrow of Light rank).
> >
> a boy that earned the Webelos rank had earned the highest rank in
> Cub Scouts ?
I cannot say for sure about the entire time between 1967 and 1977. However,
the award I earned in the spring of 1977, shortly before moving from the
Webelos Den into a Boy Scout Troop, was the "Arrow Of Light." Similarly, 5
years earlier my brother also earned the Arrow of Light.
I vaguely remember when the current "Webelos" badge was added (creating a full
diamond pattern on Cub Scout uniforms, instead of the chevron pattern known in
the past) but cannot confirm that it was when I was a first year Boy Scout.
> Would it then be acceptable or not for an adult that
> earned the Webelos rank during that time to wear the arrow of light
> square now on his adult uniform ?
Since the badge was called "The Arrow of Light" and had requirements that are
similar to the current requirements, I have never had any questions about my
ability to wear the AOL knot (right next to my Eagle knot).
> I guess then the same
> questions would apply to the 'Lion' rank before 1967.
If I recall correctly -- and I was only 1 in 1967, so I don't have good
recall back that far -- there was still a "Webelos" award that followed after
the Lion. At that time the award stood for "Wolf-Bear-Lion-Scout" indicating
the continuum that the award was meant to bridge. I do, however, believe
that Scouters who earned that award can also wear the AOL knot.
When the Lion was dropped (I'll trust the 1967 date), the award was renamed
the Arrow of Light and the 3rd year (5th grade) program was renamed "Webelos"
-- which now stands for "We'll Be Loyal Scouts."
Other articles in this thread have documented the change from a 1 year to a 2
year (18 month) Webelos program, and the addition of the Tiger Cubs to the Cub
Scout program, so I won't go into those here.
Ron Oakes
(Unit Commissioner, Black Mountain District, Desert Pacific Council)
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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Charles Dombek
last year that Lion was in existence (got my AOL in 67). It was done to allow
the Webelos program to expand to 2 years.
James York wrote:
> I guess that I am showing my age, I was A cub scout in the mid 60s, the
> ranks at that time where Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, Lion and, Weblow. My son
> started in Cub scouts this year and I see that the Lion scout went the way
> of the dinosaure. Anyone know when and why they did away with the Lion ?
> By the way I still have my Lion badge and id card.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Dombek
Assistant Cubmaster Pack 572 (also leading Den 9)
Assistant Scoutmaster-New Scouts Troop 809
New Horizons District Greater St. Louis Area Council
----------------------------------------------------------------------
An Arrow of Light (Pack 580 '67)
and First Class Scout (Troop 580 '68)
Now Raising Three Eagles
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I used to be a Fox, and a good ol' Fox too
C-34-98 Working my ticket, yes I am!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
GPATK
to your question is NO! If an adult earned the Arrow of Light as a boy, he
can wear the knot as an adult. If he didn't, he can't. Lion has nothing to
do with it either.
Stephen M. Henning
This very authoritative answer is completely wrong.
I have a complete set of BSA Cub Scout handbooks from 1930 to the present
and also a copy of the BSA book called the History of Cub Scouting and can
verify:
The Webelos rank was introduced in 1941 as a rank earned in the Lion Den
after the Lion rank. It indicated a boy was ready to become a Boy Scout.
Then in 1954 the Webelos rank was expanded in scope and the Lion badge was
renamed the Lion-Webelos badge.
The Lion program was dropped in 1967 when the Webelos program became the
program for 10 year-olds. The Webelos rank replaced the Lion rank, and
the Arrow of Light replaced the Webelos rank.
The Arrow of Light name did not exist until 1967. The badge was created
in 1941 but was called the Webelos Badge until 1967.
I agree with the person who said that the Webelos Award from 1941 to 1967
and the Arrow of Light after 1967 both qualify for the Arrow of Light
Award square knot since they are for the same badge and had the same
requirements; only the name changed. I know many people over the age of
41 who wear the Arrow of Light Award square knot and think they earned it.
GPATK
respectfully disagree. The Arrow of Light is the Arrow of Light.
Richard Westover
>
> "GPATK" <GP...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > The Webelos rank is new, the Arrow of Light has always existed. The answer
> > to your question is NO! If an adult earned the Arrow of Light as a boy, he
> > can wear the knot as an adult. If he didn't, he can't. Lion has nothing to
> > do with it either.
>
> This very authoritative answer is completely wrong.
>
> I have a complete set of BSA Cub Scout handbooks from 1930 to the present
> and also a copy of the BSA book called the History of Cub Scouting and can
> verify:
>
> The Webelos rank was introduced in 1941 as a rank earned in the Lion Den
> after the Lion rank. It indicated a boy was ready to become a Boy Scout.
>
> Then in 1954 the Webelos rank was expanded in scope and the Lion badge was
> renamed the Lion-Webelos badge.
>
> The Lion program was dropped in 1967 when the Webelos program became the
> program for 10 year-olds. The Webelos rank replaced the Lion rank, and
> the Arrow of Light replaced the Webelos rank.
>
> The Arrow of Light name did not exist until 1967. The badge was created
> in 1941 but was called the Webelos Badge until 1967.
>
> I agree with the person who said that the Webelos Award from 1941 to 1967
> and the Arrow of Light after 1967 both qualify for the Arrow of Light
> Award square knot since they are for the same badge and had the same
> requirements; only the name changed. I know many people over the age of
> 41 who wear the Arrow of Light Award square knot and think they earned it.
>
After I asked the question about the Arrow of Light Square Knot and got
some good responses but some that we in conflict. I took a look in my
old scout hand book. ( 1969 Printing but the Edition was
from the early 60's ) In the inside front cover where it shows the
proper
way to put on your badges. It had below the left pocket what looked
like today's Arrow of Light badge but called it the 'Webelos Award'.
This would help back the comments that the 'Webelos' award was the
highest
cub award and since you could wear it on your scout uniform it would be
treated simular to today's arrow of light award.
I would now also agree that somebody that earned the Webelos Award
before
the arrow light existed can wear the A of L square knot.
Richard Westover
west...@sgi.com
CC Troop 397
Charles S. Krin, DO FAAFP
I'm 42, I earned my Wolf (2nd Grade, 62-3), Bear (3rd Grade, 63-4),
and Lion (4th Grade, 64-5) ranks, maxing out the Arrow points (1 gold,
3 silver each), and my Arrow of Light (5th grade, 65-6), transferring
to the Boy Scouts in 1966 at age 10 1/2 when I started 6th grade,
IIRC. At that time, the requirements for the AoL were the same as for
the BSA "Tenderfoot" award.
I can find my Mother's charm chain if needed to demonstrate that the
AoL format of the award was present prior to 1967.
I'll dig down in the family archives while up in Omaha and see if I
can find anything else.
Incidently I DO wear the red and green knot on my Cubber's uniform.
ck
CM, Pack 211, Mangham, Louisiana
Assistant District Commissioner, Frontier District, Ouachita Valley
Council, Louisiana.
--
Charles S. Krin, DO FAAFP,Member,PGBFH,KC5EVN
Email address dump file for spam: reply to ckrin at Iamerica dot net
F*S=k (Freedom times Security equals a constant: the more
security you have, the less freedom!)(Stolen from Alt.Fan.Heinlein)
jne...@nospam.csd.uwm.edu
: As I recollect (being what my Boy Scouts call an "old" fox) I was in Cubs the
: last year that Lion was in existence (got my AOL in 67). It was done to allow
: the Webelos program to expand to 2 years.
Close,but incorrect. Lion was dropped so that Webelos could be expanded
to a FULL year. Webelos did not become a two-year program until 1988-89.
--
Jim Nelsen
Hamilton High School
Milwaukee, WI
Visit my web page to look at my "Virtual Teaching Portfolio" and find some
useful sites for social studies teachers. www.uwm.edu/~jnelsen
eric...@doitnow.com
board which I did in March 1954 when I left Cub Scouts and went on to Boy
Scouts. The Webelos badge (identical to Arrow of Light) is still on my Boy
Scout shirt pocket which hangs In the closet next to todays scout uniform
having the square knot on it.
-Kerry