Death
Dami...@webtv.net
Book of Running" die of a heart attack while running? Not such a
healthy activity
after all eh?
SwStudio
news:16720-3C...@storefull-2176.public.lawson.webtv.net...
troll
--
David (in Hamilton, Ont)
"These roads go on forever, and so do you and I"
dashboard confessional
http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/home.html
-
Tom Schipper
younger readers here a little information on Jim Fix. He came from a family
with a history of the males dieing at an early age due to heat problems.
While it is true he did die of a heart attack while running he lived
a longer healthier life than you would expect from the family history.
Tom
Dami...@webtv.net wrote:
: Didn't the idiot who wrote "The Complete
ultra...@webtv.net
http://community.webtv.net/ultrajohn1/dummyup
http://community.webtv.net/ultrajohn1/talkischeapliesr
http://community.webtv.net/ultrajohn1/splat
http://community.webtv.net/ultrajohn1/hiitssarahtime
http://community.webtv.net/ultrajohn1/Iwasborntorun
http://community.webtv.net/ultrajohn1/welcum
what john want's
john get's
Rob Carr
Schipper) wrote:
>I generally don't respont to this type of bait but for those of you
>younger readers here a little information on Jim Fix. He came from a family
>with a history of the males dieing at an early age due to heat problems.
>While it is true he did die of a heart attack while running he lived
>a longer healthier life than you would expect from the family history.
If I might add, he was at the Cooper clinic shortly before his death,
and refused a free exam by the Cooper clinic. (Do you know how much
I'd pay for a free exam from them? <g>)
The guy avoided doctors, despite the family history. He wanted to
believe that running would cure all cardiac problems. Unfortunately,
it won't. It reduces the likelyhood of cardiac problems, but sometimes
genetics gets you.
Had he taken the test at the Cooper clinic, Fixx might still be with
us and running.
Also, his death was a bit of a freak accident, from what I've heard
from the coroners I've hung with. It seems that he was out running and
he stopped suddenly for some reason. His shoelace was untied when they
found him. Anyway, because of the difference in the half-lives of
epinephrine and norepinephrine, and given his advanced cardiac
disease, his BP probably dropped and he went into shock. Now, the
human body is designed to fall down when something like this happens,
putting the whole body at about the level of the heart - it reduces
the load on the heart. Fixx fell over and slumped against a hill -
keeping his head above his heart. That's how he was found. Had he
fallen the other way, there's a chance he might have lived.
Then again, you should hear some of the stories the coroners tell. I
can't vouch for this one, although I've heard a number of them tell
the same story.
The coroner who first told me this was a runner, and it was the first
autopsy I got to witness. I was just supposed to watch, but they
needed an extra pair of hands. Floater from the Mon river, released by
the spring thaw.
Funny the things you remember....
Rob
jkm0...@surfglobal.net
IIRC, it was also 90 degrees with high humidity the day Fixx died.
Quite a few runners have kicked the bucket in those conditions,
regardless of health status. If he was dehydrated the fall in blood
pressure might have been much more serious. It appears the deck was
really stacked against him that day... no guarantees in this universe.
I still fear the automobile more than my body's frailty though.
Jerry
>
>Had he taken the test at the Cooper clinic, Fixx might still be with
>us and running.
>
>Also, his death was a bit of a freak accident, from what I've heard
>from the coroners I've hung with. It seems that he was out running and
>he stopped suddenly for some reason. His shoelace was untied when they
>found him. Anyway, because of the difference in the half-lives of
>epinephrine and norepinephrine, and given his advanced cardiac
>disease, his BP probably dropped and he went into shock. Now, the
>human body is designed to fall down when something like this happens,
>putting the whole body at about the level of the heart - it reduces
>the load on the heart. Fixx fell over and slumped against a hill -
>keeping his head above his heart. That's how he was found. Had he
>fallen the other way, there's a chance he might have lived.
>
>Rob
Andrew Coleman
rumor has it that his physician told him about his congenital heart
defect and that sustained excercise increasing his heart rate could
stop his heart...and that he chose to go for it anyway. If true, that
makes him the most hard-core runner I've ever heard of. Not sure if I
would have kept running knowing that!
schi...@CEMML.ColoState.EDU (Tom Schipper) wrote in message news:<3ca1...@news.ColoState.EDU>...
xyzzy
Without Fear" which goes into the case of Jim Fixx and addresses many
other commonly raised concerns about the cardiovascular safety of
running and other aerobic exercise. I found it to be an excellent
treatment of the subject. Cooper does a great job of addressing both
the myths and realities of the topic.
Roger 2k
<20541-3C...@storefull-2392.public.lawson.webtv.net>...
clown
You could probably say that about 98% of the WebTV posters.
Besides if heart desease runs in the family there isn't much of anything
someone can do to avoid it. They mentioned that at the time and so does the
GAPO post.
CW
Cyberbear
> Didn't the idiot who wrote "The Complete Book of Running" die of a heart
> attack while running? Not such a healthy activity after all eh?
Doesn't matter a bit. Nobody knows when their time will come. So, if you
are doing something that makes you feel good and makes you happy when it
happens then you are lucky indeed.
Also, the percentages are with the active and fit people to have a better
*quality* of life for the days they are lucky enough to be alive.
DamittMan, please find another group to troll.
Sam
"commode coronary".
It is a bad idea to come in from a run and head right for the toilet and
sit.
"Rob Carr" <rob....@www.com> wrote in message
news:8la4aucuounmfq8pi...@4ax.com...
Sam
cardiac event occur and speed the recovery time.
"Roger 2k" <NoSpam...@att.net> wrote in message
news:9Dto8.142860$uA5.1...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
Ozzie Gontang
<xy...@home.com> wrote:
Thanks,
I'll have to look up the book.
In health and on the run,
Ozzie Gontang
Maintainer - rec.running FAQ
Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975
Mindful Running: http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/
Ivan S. Teedy
you get judged by which internet server you use. Leave the "My modem is
bigger than your modem" argument on the schoolyard playground children.
And as for this Jim Fixx fellow, anyone who refuses to quit running
until his heart rips gets a huge thumbs up from me. Some of you should
be more like him. web-tv 4 life.
Rob Carr
(Ivan S. Teedy) wrote:
>I just love how shallow this group can be. Only in rec.ego.running do
>you get judged by which internet server you use.
Nah, it's not just rec.running. Web TV has a bad rep pretty much
everywhere. There's been a lot of Web TV users (and people forging
headers to make it look like they're using Web TV) who have worked
very hard to take over the spot formerly held by "Brain-dead AOLers"
(a line from "It's All About the Pentiums" by Weird Al).
Of course, not everyone who uses Web TV or AOL is a clueless newbie or
dim-witted moron. Ultrajohn here is respected, even if his posts give
new meaning to the word "terse."
To quote ultrajohn:
>clown
Rob
rick++
non-runners die from cardivascular disease. That means you are 2-3
more times more likely die watching a football game if you dont exercise.
The marathon death rate is about 1 in 150,000 starters.
When you crunch the numbers, that is the same chance as an average person
who die in the same number of hours.
Roger 2k
stories on it at different web sites and they all said about the same thing.
They said stuff like being overweight and smoking isn't as bad as not
exercising. They used a different word for not exercising, I can't think of
it right now, but it meant about the same.
The articles went on to say that the people that exercise live longer even
if they smoke or are overweight.
Roger
Sam wrote in message ...
Andrew Coleman
of asphyxiation if you eat pretzels and don't wash them down with
enough Coors while watching the NFL.....take it from our illustrious
Commander in Chief GW Bush :) Remember too, he's a regular runner.
ric...@hotmail.com (rick++) wrote in message news:<f7422d8e.02032...@posting.google.com>...
Sam
"Ivan S. Teedy" <Otis_th...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:24145-3C...@storefull-167.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Sam
do with his ISP.
"Rob Carr" <rob....@www.com> wrote in message
news:tk46aucs2ish6m2b0...@4ax.com...
ultra...@webtv.net
jerrysharrieashleyhope
Ozzie Gontang wrote:
>
<snip>
> In his own way he set a world record by outliving his father by 10 or 12
> years. His father died of heart disease in his early 40's. Ken Cooper has
> offered to do a work up on Jim but either time or some other reason kept
> Jim from following through. He was living the endurance lifestyle but as
> George Sheehan so often repeated, runners often mistake fitness as a sign
> of good health, but you can be fit and unhealthy. Jim was just beginning
> to hit his prime.
If I recall correctly, one of his downfalls that certainly wasn't hereditary
was his belief that he could
eat whatever he wanted without consequence, because he was "healthy" -- a
belief that he ultimately
proved to be incorrect!
Just a thought.
JerryB
Karellen
non-runners die from cardivascular disease.>>
People do die, period. That's the unfortunate truth - none of us will get out
of here alive.
So often people say things like "I thought he was going to make it" even if the
person is 94 years old - he was going to make *what*? Whether we run or not,
the odds are ultimately 100% against us.
Having said that, I'd much prefer spending the time I do have as a healthy,
energetic, and fit person than as an overweight Type II diabetic dispossessed
of the ability to cross the room without having to stop to catch my breath.
Mike Tennent
>Do not count me in the ultrajohn being respected crowd and it has nothing to
>do with his ISP.
>
Same for me. Respected? He has the #1 slot in my kill file.
Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"
Ironman USA, 4 months & Counting
ivy_mike
>
> If I recall correctly, one of his downfalls that certainly wasn't hereditary
> was his belief that he could
> eat whatever he wanted without consequence, because he was "healthy" -- a
> belief that he ultimately
> proved to be incorrect!
If *I* recall correctly, from reading Cooper's _Running w/o Fear_ in
the late '80s, Fixx's diet during his running years was pretty low-fat,
low cholesterol; and he'd usually have a little wine most evenings.
His total cholesterol at autopsy was in the 250s I think, BUT his
(total chol)/HDL ratio was below 3, I believe, which is considered
very desirable by the health professionals. (This ratio is supposed
to be the most accurate predictor of risk for infarction.)
Of course, he was fat, sedentary, and a heavy smoker during his
early adulthood...and there was that congenital heart problem also
found at autopsy...
(This subject of Fixx is a recurring thread on this NG. Trolls
like the one above sometimes start the threads, but not always.)
--
Regards, IM
rick++
than some vague promise it will improve health or longevity.
Running makes you feel good while you are doing it, and then for most
of the day. I'd run even if it shorten my life a bit and so
would many others I suspect. Not all that different from smokers.
Most human beings naturally run as children, then some lose the
activity during school years. Restarting is painful for a few
weeks, but then the pleasure comes.
sp...@mich.com
around with my arms out to the side, like an airplane. Running into
the wind like that made me feel like an airplane - I really enjoyed
it.
Running in High School, when I played Soccer (not very well) , was a
chore. It stayed a chore - something that I did when I was feeling
like a slug. I did it causef I had to, not because I wanted to.
The first 10 miles of a marathon have that original feeling. You're
flying. It's effortless....
yitah
jerrysharrieashleyhope
ivy_mike wrote:
>
> If *I* recall correctly, from reading Cooper's _Running w/o Fear_ in
> the late '80s, Fixx's diet during his running years was pretty low-fat,
> low cholesterol; and he'd usually have a little wine most evenings.
> His total cholesterol at autopsy was in the 250s I think, BUT his
> (total chol)/HDL ratio was below 3, I believe, which is considered
> very desirable by the health professionals. (This ratio is supposed
> to be the most accurate predictor of risk for infarction.)
>
> Of course, he was fat, sedentary, and a heavy smoker during his
> early adulthood...and there was that congenital heart problem also
> found at autopsy...
Perhaps I am mistaken...
"Consider the tragic case of James F. Fixx, author of The Complete Book of Running, one of the most successful
books on the subject. The premier running advocate, Fixx practiced what he preached: He ran 80 miles per week
for the last 15 years of his life. Fixx's arteries were blocked with atherosclerotic plaque, but so strong was
his belief that exercise (and the collateral circulation it generates) would protect him that he ignored expert
advice about lowering the fat content of his diet. This recommendation emanated from, among others, Nathan
Pritikin, director of the Pritikin Longevity Center in Santa Monica, California.
Fixx figured that the American Heart Association's diet, which limits fat intake to 30 percent of calories and
cholesterol to 300 milligrams daily, would protect him. But the seven-year, $115 million, 12,000-person
Multiple Risk Factor Intervention Trial (MRFIT) resoundingly demonstrated that there is no difference in total
deaths between the American Heart Association's 30 percent diet and the higher-fat standard American diet.
Others have shown that for meaningful protection you have to get fat intake down to 10 percent.
Like many runners, Fixx also thought that he could "run through" his coronary blockage, healing it in the
process. For this miscalculation, Fixx paid the ultimate price: He died of a massive heart attack while running
alone on a country road in Vermont.
In his 1985 book Diet for Runners, Pritikin described a conversation with Fixx: "About six months before his
death this year, Jim Fixx phoned me and criticized the chapter 'Run and Die on the American Diet' in The
Pritikin Promise. In that chapter, I documented my thesis that running is not protective against heart disease.
I said that many runners on the average American diet have died and will continue to drop dead during or
shortly after long-distance events or training sessions. Jim thought the chapter was hysterical in tone and
would frighten a lot of runners. I told him that was my intention. I hoped it would frighten them into changing
their diets. I explained that I think it is better to be hysterical before someone dies than after. Too many
men, I told Jim, had already died because they believed that anyone who could run a marathon in under four
hours and who was a nonsmoker had absolute immunity from having a heart attack."
Allow me to burst the bubble on a couple of other common misconceptions. First, a normal electrocardiogram
(EKG), coupled with a running program, is no protection against a heart attack. Coronary vessels can be
significantly clogged, and the EKG--even a stress EKG--can be normal. Another delusion is that a high level of
HDL cholesterol can protect you from a heart attack, especially if you work out. It won't, and many are those
who've lost their lives by mistakenly adhering to this belief. A high HDL can be achieved through healthy
activities like exercise, or unhealthy ones, like drinking. Normal levels are 30 to 60 milligrams per deciliter
of blood. Fixx's was an incredible 87 milligrams per deciliter." ^^^^^^^^^^^^
I do know that he liked his beer, and recommended it for runners.
Just a thought.
JerryB
gentolm
May the billy goats stomp you
plodzilla
Dami...@webtv.net wrote:
>
> Didn't the idiot who wrote "The Complete
> Book of Running" die of a heart attack while running? Not such a
ivy_mike
<snip>
Where was this long quote lifted from? You should always
name your sources. As I said, the info I gave is based on
my memories of Cooper's book, which I read in late '88 or'89.
Whether it's absolutely accurate or not, I don't know; but I
consider him a pretty reliable source generally.
As everyone should know by now, there are NEVER any *guarantees*
when it comes to things like future health. But following the established
recommended guidelines is a good idea. One has to use one's intelligence
to decide which sources of info are solid, and which
ones are worth very little. And there's no shortage of the latter.
(But Fixx did apparently have some warning symptoms, which did not
prompt him to get a medical workup. This is something I can't really
understand.)
--
Regards, IM
Ozzie Gontang
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
In article <13077cb5.02033...@posting.google.com>, ivy_mike
<ivy_...@my-deja.com> wrote:
.
>
> (But Fixx did apparently have some warning symptoms, which did not
> prompt him to get a medical workup. This is something I can't really
> understand.)
>
> --
> Regards, IM
Mike,
While Denial is not a river, it is an unconscious strategy that many of
us use when the feelings and emotions around fear come into play. I
experience it often in myself.
Yesterday I had a noted researcher physician who is dealing with a
disease that should have killed them over a year and a half ago
talking about concern over a procedure that was suggested that might
diminish or alleviate the increased shortness of breath. This person
has been deliberating over getting the procedure for a few weeks, as
the shortness of breath increases.
When asked if they were the person consulting another person about the
procedure, what would they do. The individual without hesitation said:
"I'd tell them to get the procedure done as quickly as possible."
After the laughter died down, we knew the arrow had hit its mark.
eddy eagle
> ivy_mike wrote:
>
> >
> > In his 1985 book Diet for Runners, Pritikin described a conversation with Fixx: "About six months before his
death this year, Jim Fixx phoned me and criticized the chapter 'Run
and Die on the American Diet' in The
Pritikin Promise. In that chapter, I documented my thesis that running
is not protective against heart disease.
I said that many runners on the average American diet have died and
will continue to drop dead during or
shortly after long-distance events or training sessions. Jim thought
the chapter was hysterical in tone and
would frighten a lot of runners. I told him that was my intention. I
hoped it would frighten them into changing
their diets. I explained that I think it is better to be hysterical
before someone dies than after. Too many
men, I told Jim, had already died because they believed that anyone
who could run a marathon in under four
hours and who was a nonsmoker had absolute immunity from having a
heart attack
>>>This paragraph really struck a note because I can think of all
kinds of runners that developed heart problems. One had a heart attach
after a 6 mile run and a shower. Another had one after a half marathon
and now runs with a pacemaker and a monitor. I saw him this morning on
my run. All that I can think of were over 50 at the time and not
overweight in the least.
Andrew Coleman
Problem is that it's replaced with an entirely different feeling
around mile 20!
"sp...@mich.com" <sp...@mich.com> wrote in message news:<guaaau803ich6bsu3...@4ax.com>...
jerrysharrieashleyhope
ivy_mike wrote:
> jerrysharrieashleyhope <t.j.b...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3CA570D1...@sympatico.ca>...
>
> <snip>
>
> Where was this long quote lifted from? You should always
> name your sources. As I said, the info I gave is based on
> my memories of Cooper's book, which I read in late '88 or'89.
> Whether it's absolutely accurate or not, I don't know; but I
> consider him a pretty reliable source generally.
If you've read half the posts I've put up on rec.running, you would know that I source this place to death. So
I forgot one reference. At least I took the time to search out and back up my statements. And here is your
reference:
http://www.renewalresearch.com/book/exercise_as_if_your_life_depends_on_it.html
Just a thought.
JerryB
ivy_mike
<snipped for space>
> procedure, what would they do. The individual without hesitation said:
> "I'd tell them to get the procedure done as quickly as possible."
>
> After the laughter died down, we knew the arrow had hit its mark.
Yep Ozzie, we're all familiar with the "do as I say, not as I do"
mindset. But I'm an exception I guess. If I see real evidence of
a serious problem, I address it usually. I may have some anxiety about
the problem, but it doesn't over-power my mind so that I don't
handle it. You could never accuse me of denial. My mind just
doesn't work that way.
--
Regards, IM
ivy_mike
> If you've read half the posts I've put up on rec.running,
Sorry, but I don't recall even ever seeing your name here before.
I certainly don't read every post here.
>you would know that I source this place to death. So
> I forgot one reference. At least I took the time to search out and back up >my statements.
Well, there is one significant difference between your source and mine.
Yours is on the Web, mine is not. You can bring a link to yours with
a couple of clicks, I'd have to go a library; that is, even if the
book is still available. My memory is usually pretty good, and I still
consider K. Cooper a reliable source on such matters.
The one thing I didn't see on the site you gave the link to was just
WHO the author of this "renewal" book was. And the book seems to tell
us things that we all should already know quite well by now: exercise
is good; sedentary living is bad; a low-fat, low-chol diet is better
than the opposite; and that the intake of certain antioxidants may
be a good idea. Why doesn't he tell us something we don't already
know?
BTW, although I have been into fitness very much since I was 14 years
old, I still am not sure that it *necessarily* makes one live longer,
as this person claims. Yes, in some people, a lifestyle change to
exercise, better diet, and stopping destructive habits (like smoking, etc.)
can make a huge difference in the length of their lives, simply because
without altering their life, they would die much sooner because of their
vices, but the sheer *length* of one's life is probably determined by
other factors, with genetics being not the least. Take the Queen Mother
for example, who just died yesterday. She was 101, and I seriously doubt
that the woman ever was involved with any aerobics program in her life.
Then there was Milton Berl (sp?) who just croaked. The man always looked
about as fit as a wet noodle...and then there was George Burns with
his cigar and easy chair, not to mention the world's oldest person dying
just recently at age 115. I doubt she ever sat her butt down on a bike
for a serious workout, or ever bought a pair of running shoes.
I think what a physically active life does do is make one's life *richer*
while he/she is still here.
--
Regards, IM
jerrysharrieashleyhope
....
Just a thought.
JerryB
> <snip>