Long run
Laurie
better understanding of these long runs.
Do you all do long runs,meaning 12 or greater on a regular basis. I
have always associated long runs with "training" for half or full
marathon. I have done both and then fall back to like 7 miles for my
weekend run.
My situation, is this. I have found a fairly local 50M trail race next
year. So Todd, Mike T, trailrunner or anyone with the long distance run
experience, I need to understand this.
Those of you who have done a marathon or greater do you continue to do
like 17-30 miles long runs through out the year, even though not
officially in training.
I mailed my $ for the Huff 50K Dec.30th. I am just doing the one loop to
get a feel for the trail and esp. in winter.
Laurie-
The Trailrunner
Laurie wrote:
> Those of you who have done a marathon or greater do you continue to do
> like 17-30 miles long runs through out the year, even though not
> officially in training.
Yes and no :-) I personally try to not go longer than 2-3 weeks without
doing a 20M+ run. While I do cut back on "training" during Nov & Dec,
I've found ramping back up in Jan easier if I've maintained a good base
including the occasional long run. I'm probably not the best example as
I do ultras at least monthly between Jan - Oct and when I am in serious
training, I'll do 2, maybe even 3, long runs a week. But then again, I'm
a slow, old geezer so Doug or Todd might have a different perspective
(i.e. fast, old geezer :-)). However for me, running for hours on the
trails is not so much training as it is fun!
--
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Trails of The Diablo Valley
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Todd
"Laurie" <lfj...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:18816-3A...@storefull-613.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> Without sounding too confused (because actually I am) I need to have a
> better understanding of these long runs.
>
> Do you all do long runs,meaning 12 or greater on a regular basis. I
> have always associated long runs with "training" for half or full
> marathon. I have done both and then fall back to like 7 miles for my
> weekend run.
>
Long runs are a great way to help maintain general fitness, endurance, and
even speed. When I am serious about my training, I try to get in a long run
once or twice a week based on your definition of 12 or greater. I don't
like running less than 10 miles and calling it a long run. To me, that's a
week off. But I've had a lot of those lately. *G*
>
> My situation, is this. I have found a fairly local 50M trail race next
> year. So Todd, Mike T, trailrunner or anyone with the long distance run
> experience, I need to understand this.
>
> Those of you who have done a marathon or greater do you continue to do
> like 17-30 miles long runs through out the year, even though not
> officially in training.
Generally speaking, I don't do long runs of over 23 miles. If I know I will
have support along the way, or I just feel like trying a particular
distance, I'll lengthen my long run out, but it's not really the best
training. 20 milers are adequate for me to train for an ultra. 40 to 45
miles a week is usually an optimum weekly mileage for me. I like to run 15
to 20 miles for a long run when I'm training. Other parts needed for good
training are track workouts, hills, cross training, food (while running),
electrolytes (to replace salts and minerals), mental toughness (It's good to
know how to adjust to the body's messages to the brain), and a race plan
(always needed when looking for a successful finish).
>
> I mailed my $ for the Huff 50K Dec.30th. I am just doing the one loop to
> get a feel for the trail and esp. in winter.
Sorry I don't know anything about the Huff 50K. Good luck to you. I'd love
to read what happens.
>
>
>
> Laurie-
Todd
SwStudio
> Do you all do long runs,meaning 12 or greater on a regular basis. I
> have always associated long runs with "training" for half or full
> marathon. I have done both and then fall back to like 7 miles for my
> weekend run.
>
Everyone is different, but generally the common thing
runners do is run a long run that equals close to half of
their weekly mileage, provided of course you run at
least 4 times a week. Say you run something like this :
Mon - 3 miles
Tue - off
Wed - 4 miles
Thur - off
Fri - 3 miles
Sat - off
This schedule would be appropriate with a Sunday run of
5, maybe even 6 miles if you know you are ready. So, if we
double the amounts ran, the long run would be 10-12 miles,
and so on.
> Those of you who have done a marathon or greater do you continue to do
> like 17-30 miles long runs through out the year, even though not
> officially in training.
>
I was up to 50 - 60 miles a week at the high point of my marathon
training. Right now I have short term goals (shorter races) leading
up to a 30k in late March. So, I am not running near as much distance,
(maybe 30 miles a week, slowly increasing over a 3 month period),
and I have harder speed workouts. As the winter progresses into
spring, the miles will go up again in prep for the long ones.
> Laurie-
>
David (in Hamilton, Ont)
--
--
:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.
"Nunc scio quid sit amor."
.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.
rick++
That helps improve endurance. Many people do it on Sat or Sun because
it may fatigue them. Do one every 2-3 weeks.
When training for a marathon a long run should approach 3/hrs. or 20
miles.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
BarryNL
run. In fact, if I did 2x 3miles and 1x 5miles during the week your 25% rule
would make my long run 4.6miles ??? Also, you should probably do one at
least 2 out of every 3 weeks, not every 2-3 weeks.
--
Regards, Barry
Running & Stuff: http://homepages.go.com/~barry841
"rick++" <rick...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8vbao1$9g4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Mike Tennent
>Without sounding too confused (because actually I am) I need to have a
>better understanding of these long runs.
>
>Do you all do long runs,meaning 12 or greater on a regular basis. I
>have always associated long runs with "training" for half or full
>marathon. I have done both and then fall back to like 7 miles for my
>weekend run.
David (SwStudio) hit it on the head. "Long" is relative to what you're
doing overall. It's not a set distance, although most of us think of
something in the 15-20 mile range as being "long".
For a new runner just doing 2-3 miles a day, a long run is 5-6 miles.
For someone doing 40 miles a week, 15 and up is long.
Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"
Ironman Canada '98
Great Floridian '99, '00
Laurie
> than 2-3 weeks without doing a 20M+ run.
Now I will have to rack up the mileage _again_ but once I do I need to
stay consistent with that long run, even if not training for any
particular distance.
> While I do cut back on "training" during Nov &
> Dec, I've found ramping back up in Jan easier
> if I've maintained a good base including the
> occasional long run.
Yup, I see what bad running habit I have to break. Not maintaining a
long run year round.
I appreciate the info. I am a novice at this ultra distance, but eager
to learn.
Laurie
Laurie
> over 23 miles.
>If I know I will have support
> along the way, or I just feel like trying a
> particular distance, I'll lengthen my long run
> out, but it's not really the best training. 20
> milers are adequate for me to train for an
> ultra.
I don't understand this. We run 20 miles in training for a marathon,
why not push the miles up for a ultra training run? Could it be you run
the entire distance. I have read a ton of stuff and I will be a walk/run
ultraette.
>Other parts needed for good training are track
> workouts, hills, cross training, food (while
> running), electrolytes (to replace salts and
> minerals), mental toughness (It's good to
> know how to adjust to the body's messages to
> the brain), and a race plan (always needed
> when looking for a successful finish).
wow a lot for a old geezette.:) I've got the mental toughness, lytes
understanding and a plan that scares the hell out of me. Food, as we
have already discussed will be my own personal "wall" to get over, under
or however..:)
>Sorry I don't know anything about the Huff
> 50K.
HUFF Home Page
Address:http://members.tripod.com/~FtWayneRUNNER/HUFF.htm
I'm only do 1 loop, and hope I don't turn into a ice sculpture in the
woods!
Goal: Owen Putman 50 M trail next Nov. Things are really starting to
fall into place. Got new running shoes and just mentioned trails..Long
story short, the guy there has already ran this ultra and knows a couple
guys who will crew for me. I already have a great friend for a pacer. We
figure around 35 miles he will join me and help me get to the finish. He
is a paramedic and he _ will_ get me there.:) dead or alive.:)
Is running with a IV and being hydrated with D5.45 considered cheating?
:)
Laurie
Todd
> >Generally speaking, I don't do long runs of
> > over 23 miles.
> why?
You answered the question. Why?
>
> >If I know I will have support
> > along the way, or I just feel like trying a
> > particular distance, I'll lengthen my long run
> > out, but it's not really the best training. 20
> > milers are adequate for me to train for an
> > ultra.
> I don't understand this. We run 20 miles in training for a marathon,
> why not push the miles up for a ultra training run? Could it be you run
> the entire distance. I have read a ton of stuff and I will be a walk/run
> ultraette.
In a 50 mile run I always do a little walking. If for no other reason than
to eat and drink and be merry. Last month, at the Firetrails 50, I did some
walking just to talk with another runner. He was a "grizzled veteran" who
had left early and was only doing part of the course. I wasn't in very good
shape so I wasn't in any real hurry. *G*
>
> >Other parts needed for good training are track
> > workouts, hills, cross training, food (while
> > running), electrolytes (to replace salts and
> > minerals), mental toughness (It's good to
> > know how to adjust to the body's messages to
> > the brain), and a race plan (always needed
> > when looking for a successful finish).
> wow a lot for a old geezette.:) I've got the mental toughness, lytes
> understanding and a plan that scares the hell out of me. Food, as we
> have already discussed will be my own personal "wall" to get over, under
> or however..:)
You're a bit younger than me so you're just another young'un as far as I'm
concerned. :)
>
> >Sorry I don't know anything about the Huff
> > 50K.
> HUFF Home Page
> Address:http://members.tripod.com/~FtWayneRUNNER/HUFF.htm
> I'm only do 1 loop, and hope I don't turn into a ice sculpture in the
> woods!
Went there to look at the pictures. Looked like there's a little bit of up
and down on the course. Should make it fun. :)
a and knows a couple
> guys who will crew for me. I already have a great friend for a pacer. We
> figure around 35 miles he will join me and help me get to the finish. He
> is a paramedic and he _ will_ get me there.:) dead or alive.:)
> Is running with a IV and being hydrated with D5.45 considered cheating?
> :)
>
>
>
>
> Laurie
>
If you're carrying the IV, it's not cheating. If your pacer is, that's
muling and you will earn the scorn of your fellow ultrarunners for allowing
it. Don't allow your pacer to carry anything for you. You can get whatever
you want at the aid stations and no one will say a thing. :)
Todd
Laurie
>> over 23 miles.
>why?
>>You answered the question. Why?
Don't you think I should be on my feet for 8 hours prior to this race? I
can't imagine only doing 23 miles and then attempting 50. I need to stay
up on my feet walking and running for hours. Right?( training)
>In a 50 mile run I always do a little walking. If
> for no other reason than to eat and drink and
> be merry.
How about just drink and be merry! As a beginner I will end up doing a
lot of walking, but we'll see how training goes.
>Last month, at the Firetrails 50, I
>did some walking just to talk with another
> runner.
Yup that's me. I did a fun 400M run and talked to others going around
the track. :)
>You're a bit younger than me so you're just
> another young'un as far as I'm concerned. :)
Well Todd I must have you mixed up with another Todd then. I read( think
George posted it) a story about a Todd that ran and got lost or fell. I
can't remember the details but Todd's mom wrote it. He was in his 30's.
>If you're carrying the IV, it's not cheating. If
> your pacer is, that's muling and you will earn
> the scorn of your fellow ultrarunners for
> allowing it. Don't allow your pacer to carry
> anything for you.
Well after reading this you can be sure he won't be carrying so much as
a hair pin for me.
I would _never_ cheat. Joe has done ultras before. I am sure he knew
this. He and I were making jokes about my condition and what we could
do to correct it as I went along. Truthfully,
humor will get me to the finish!
Laurie
Dara O'Kearney
>Generally speaking, I don't do long runs of over 23 miles. If I know I will
>have support along the way, or I just feel like trying a particular
>distance, I'll lengthen my long run out, but it's not really the best
>training. 20 milers are adequate for me to train for an ultra. 40 to 45
>miles a week is usually an optimum weekly mileage for me. I like to run 15
>to 20 miles for a long run when I'm training. Other parts needed for good
>training are track workouts, hills, cross training, food (while running),
That's something I wondered about. Do all ultra runners eat during an
ultra? If so, what and how much?
Slan libh,
Dara.
Doug Freese
Dara O'Kearney wrote:
> That's something I wondered about. Do all ultra runners eat during an
> ultra?
You have to take in some calories whether in liquid or solid
form or have yourself measured for the body bag before you
start. If you were to run a 50k, roughly 32 miles at 100
calories a mile, that's more than your body stores.
> If so, what and how much?
Don't know how to quantify. I simply grab food and drink at every
aid station. To avoid a long stays at the troth, I'll
take my food with me and eat while moving forward. How much, depends on
how
far apart and how hungry I feel. Generally, I don't wait until I get
hungry
nor eat till I'm stuffed - a middle of the road.
What to eat is a personal thing. I would suggest you try
to find out what a race does serve and try eat those
same things in training.
--
Caveat Lector!
Doug Freese dfr...@attglobal.net
Rob Knell
>Dara O'Kearney wrote:
>
>> That's something I wondered about. Do all ultra runners eat during an
>> ultra?
You'll often hear it said that you have to eat during an ultra to get
all the carbs in that you need, but I've found that I can do fine on
just drinks with carbs in. Rae Bischoff (sp?) said after she won
Comrades that she did it on 'nothing but water and coke'. YMMV.
Rob Knell
Doug Freese
Rob Knell wrote:
> You'll often hear it said that you have to eat during an ultra to get
> all the carbs in that you need, but I've found that I can do fine on
> just drinks with carbs in.
I have been getting about 80% of my carbs in liquid form(CLIP).
This assumes you have a crew to supply you. The sport drink
carbo concentration is not enough.
>Rae Bischoff (sp?) said after she won
> Comrades that she did it on 'nothing but water and coke'. YMMV.
I typically drink watered Coke for that last 30 miles of a hundred.
I do this because It's the only fluid I can get down. I
don't know if I would do it from the start.
The net of this - get your calories regardless of form. Carry an IV
if it works for you. Hey, hook your big camel back into an IV.
Move over dot.com I going to get rich.
--
Caveat Lector!
Doug "frisson ended" Freese dfr...@attglobal.net
Mike Conway
>I do this because It's the only fluid I can get down. I
>don't know if I would do it from the start.
The folklore (sorry, Ozzie) that I have heard on this one is that once you
start drinking Coke, you need to keep drinking it lest you start crashing from
the sugar (or lack thereof once you stop). The wisdom, which I adhere to as it
appears you do as well, is to hold off on Coke consumption until the latter
stages of the event.
Mike C
Doug Freese
Mike Conway wrote:
> The folklore (sorry, Ozzie)
That was me but thanks for even placing me on the same planet
as Ozzie. :)
> that I have heard on this one is that once you
> start drinking Coke, you need to keep drinking it lest you start crashing from
> the sugar (or lack thereof once you stop).
Not unless you are drinking uncut coke all the time as your only
fluid. In my case I was drinking watered coke, tums, and choking down
boiled potatoes. It was the only fluid my stomach could tolerate
with the indigestion typical problem when the acids and bases
get out of balance.
>The wisdom, which I adhere to as it
> appears you do as well, is to hold off on Coke consumption until the latter
> stages of the event.
If you stand at an aid station during an ultra you will find
people enjoying, coke, Mountain Dew, water and sport drinks
from the first aid station on. As long as you also drink water
and sport drinks, you will be fine.
One of the reasons it is suggested to hold off is the Coke
has a settling effect on your stomach and by the last third
of a race, you have ingested a collage of food which does not
always behave in combination. That pepperoni pizza at mile
70 tasted great but at mile 72 you are ready for a Zantac
commercial.
Mike Tennent
That is the conventional wisdom and I followed it in this year's GFT.
I did supplement it with pretzels and hot chicken broth, but avoided
the energy drinks. The coke was all I could keep down at the beginning
of the run leg.
The main drawback was that I was not confident that it was really
providing enough carbos to sustain a solid pace without bonking. So
when I got feeling better after about 10 miles, I still held back.
As it was I ended up breaking 16 hours for the ironman distance and
got a PR. I'm still wondering how much more time I could have shaved
off if I'd pushed it a bit more, or if I would have bonked big time.