HR monitor training question
Mark Cleary
with my Garmin 305 forerunner. I use it off and one only for fun but I
just wondered if anyone else has this reading. If I start out my running
at near the pace I usually average my heart rate is very high for the
first 1/2 mile then levels off to the regular average.
At 48 years old my max is suppose to be around 172. 15 years ago I wore
a heart rate monitor so see what I could max out my heart rate and I got
186. Well now I generally max at around 169 but for the past week of
starting a tempo type run I have run my max to 197 and 189 and 179 on 3
separate mornings.
This seems a bit high and other than that statistic my runs each time
were fine and I felt good. Since "religiously" wearing the heart rate
monitor the past week I just notice my heart rate jumps at first then
goes back to a normal type reading.
Here are the stats
For the average 7 mile run at between 6.8 and 7 mph my heart rate
averages about 136. For my run this week when I did 7 miles in 58:20 the
average was 145. Then I did 7 in 59:30 139 bpm, and today I ran 8 miles
in 68 minutes and the average was 137. I was easily the most tired today
but my max heart rate was 169 in the first 1/4 mile. Then it settled
down to the 137. In fact I really tired to push mile 5-6 and ran at
about 20 seconds faster than average. My pulse remained almost unchanged
slight rise.
So do any of you have spikes in the HR when starting? Normally one would
expect it to get higher toward the end of the run and as you push the pace.
This does not have me worried or anything I just wonder if anyone has
similar readings. The reading from 15 years ago to get to 186 required
me to run an all out mile after getting pretty warmed up.
--
Deacon Mark Cleary
Epiphany Roman Catholic Church
Dot
> I don't use a heart rate monitor to train with but I have one that comes
> with my Garmin 305 forerunner. I use it off and one only for fun but I
> just wondered if anyone else has this reading. If I start out my running
> at near the pace I usually average my heart rate is very high for the
> first 1/2 mile then levels off to the regular average.
Yep. Try warming up first. See the recent threads on Light headed and
Warm up (Johnny golden). Or be sure you've got a good contact (moisten
belt).
>
> At 48 years old my max is suppose to be around 172. 15 years ago I wore
> a heart rate monitor so see what I could max out my heart rate and I got
> 186. Well now I generally max at around 169 but for the past week of
> starting a tempo type run I have run my max to 197 and 189 and 179 on 3
> separate mornings.
Ignore the age-based formula - they're ok for general averages but can
be close to useless for an individual. Some sort of field test should be
used for whatever reference point you decide to use (max HR, HR reserve,
or LT HR). Here's a reference to using LT HR, which is like that of
Friel's book on Total Heart Rate Training.
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=633
How long are you keeping the effort near 180-200 on a "tempo" run? By
tempo, I'm assuming you're talking something near LT or below. I'm
wondering if it's a spike (bad reading) or you're using "tempo" in a
different sense.
It's not unusual for active adults to have max HR that drop much slower
than the rate assumed by the 220-age formula, and other formulas assume
much slower drop rates.
FWIW, I'm 62, max HR near 180 and that's what I've been using for 8 yr.
I've heard of people having same HR for 20 yrs. I can't hit it on my
own, but usually get in the high 170s near end of xc races that are
under 1 hr OR in some group plyometrics drills where I might get run
over if I don't keep up the effort with the group. My LT is usually near
160. (The 182 I got on my last race was probably a spike since it was a
single data point, but points on both sides were near 177, iirc.)
Also, be aware that elite collegians can train and race at HR above what
their test protocols show at max HR. IOW, take HR readings in
appropriate context. There's lots of issues with them, but can be a
useful tool.
>
> This seems a bit high and other than that statistic my runs each time
> were fine and I felt good. Since "religiously" wearing the heart rate
> monitor the past week I just notice my heart rate jumps at first then
> goes back to a normal type reading.
>
....
> So do any of you have spikes in the HR when starting? Normally one would
> expect it to get higher toward the end of the run and as you push the pace.
You need to warmup. It could just be needing a warmup or it could be you
need more sweat for a good contact (that is, bad contact is the reason,
not your actual HR). I usually do a cooldown at end so IF I'm doing a
workout (vs an easy run), I'll have my highest HR at appropriate places
(after accounting for body response delays), then 70-80% max HR toward
the end.
>
> This does not have me worried or anything I just wonder if anyone has
> similar readings. The reading from 15 years ago to get to 186 required
> me to run an all out mile after getting pretty warmed up.
It's also possible you're not hitting your max - either then or now.
Dot
Melinda Shore
Mark Cleary <mcle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>So do any of you have spikes in the HR when starting? Normally one would
>expect it to get higher toward the end of the run and as you push the pace.
That's been my experience, as well - higher-than-"expected"
HR until I'm warmed up.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
pithydoug
> In article <hd582n$ld...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Mark Cleary <mclear...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >So do any of you have spikes in the HR when starting? Normally one would
> >expect it to get higher toward the end of the run and as you push the pace.
>
> That's been my experience, as well - higher-than-"expected"
> HR until I'm warmed up.
It's the same for everyone with the amount(time or distance) of warm-
up, individual. For instance, if I want to warm up for a 5k, I need to
run the course first before I can put the pedal down and race. In a
daily run I do the first few miles at 10 or 11 pace before I settle in
and feel comfortable at 8-9.
-D
Jos Bergervoet
> Mark Cleary wrote:
>> I don't use a heart rate monitor to train with but I have one that comes
>> with my Garmin 305 forerunner. I use it off and one only for fun but I
>> just wondered if anyone else has this reading. If I start out my running
>> at near the pace I usually average my heart rate is very high for the
>> first 1/2 mile then levels off to the regular average.
>
> Yep. Try warming up first. See the recent threads on Light headed and
> Warm up (Johnny golden). Or be sure you've got a good contact (moisten
> belt).
I also ocasionally put some salt on the pads (and moisten).
With bad contact they can give pulses with each movement you make,
resulting sometimes in getting your stride frequency, or breathing
rate, or some mixture of those, but not your heartrate. Strapping
on tighter can also help..
...
...
>> So do any of you have spikes in the HR when starting? Normally one would
>> expect it to get higher toward the end of the run and as you push the pace.
>
> You need to warmup. It could just be needing a warmup or it could be you
> need more sweat for a good contact (that is, bad contact is the reason,
> not your actual HR).
I experienced the latter many times. I'm completely sure my HR starts
below 100 and moves up slowly to 140 on a normal training run, but
the watch showed values of 180-220. If I stop and stand still for some
seconds it then either drops to 0, or sometimes finds the true value.
But especially in wintertime it will only work reliably with a
moistened belt.
So it's just a false reading!
-- Jos
D Stumpus
"Mark Cleary" <mcle...@comcast.net> wrote
>I don't use a heart rate monitor to train with but I have one that comes
>with my Garmin 305 forerunner. I use it off and one only for fun but I just
>wondered if anyone else has this reading. If I start out my running at near
>the pace I usually average my heart rate is very high for the first 1/2
>mile then levels off to the regular average.
That's probably an artifact (meaning a faulty reading) caused by a poor
connection with the HR monitor.
HR geeks often use a conduction aid like Buh Bump (google it), just a dab
under the contacts gives you a solid contact.
A little dab of spit will work too, but not as good as Buh Bump. Eventually
you should get a bit sweaty and that should give you a good reading.
My biggest problem is that the dang sensor starts sliding down my torso. I
had to improvise "bra straps" out of some string to keep the thing in place.
After using the monitor for months on various tempo and easy runs and some
races, I found that I could estimate my heartrate just by my effort and
breathing in most cases, so I stopped using it.
> At 48 years old my max is suppose to be around 172. 15 years ago I wore a
> heart rate monitor so see what I could max out my heart rate and I got
> 186. Well now I generally max at around 169 but for the past week of
> starting a tempo type run I have run my max to 197 and 189 and 179 on 3
> separate mornings.
My max is 180-ish, and my hard speed repeats peak out at 174 or so. My
tempo work is 150-154, and easy is 125-140, depending on the day and how
warmed up I am. When fully warmed up at the end of an easy hour run, I'll
often hit 140 at the same effort that 130 was at the start of my run.
My first take is that your tempo work is too hard (that's got to be
painful,no?), or you're getting bogus readings. Unless your max HR is 210+,
in which case 25 less than max is sustainable for a while. I used to be
able to run at 175 for 3-4 mile tempo runs without problems, but my max was
200 at the time.
Mark Cleary
is 8:10 but not painful at all. I just have no speed as such and I never
do any real speedwork. My speedwork is to simply run harder for a mile
or two. I never really get winded as such but it just feels pretty
difficult to hold a pace at say 7:30.
It does not matter to me I never race except maybe once a year at the
Turkey Trot 3 miles. I just run and keep track of data for fun. I use to
race 12-15 years ago maybe 10 times a year but the deacon usually has to
work when a race comes on weekends.
I do think the HR monitor was giving false readings. Today my Max was
163 at about 3/4 of a mile into the run at 7:50 pace. I felt like I was
working pretty hard and at least as hard as the other days this week
with much higher ratings. For what is is worth my resting hr is 40-44 in
the quiet of the Chapel at times.
Also,I have high blood pressure and have since I was 12 years old. This
is no joke I have take some type of BP medication since I was in 8th
grade. Bad genes they have done a bunch of test in the past years.
D Stumpus
"D Stumpus" <dstumpu...@pobox.com> wrote
> That's probably an artifact (meaning a faulty reading) caused by a poor
> connection with the HR monitor.
I was assuming that you warm up, that is, start out at an easy effort for a
few minutes. If you jolt from zero to cruise pace in zero seconds, I have
no comment since I haven't done that for many years, and HR monitors weighed
about 12lbs in those days...
Mark Cleary
than the first mile will be a little slower but go right up to pace in
less than 1/4 mile. Not the best way for sure but I do many things
against the grain.
pithydoug
>
> >> That's probably an artifact (meaning a faulty reading) caused by a poor
> >> connection with the HR monitor.
>
> > I was assuming that you warm up, that is, start out at an easy effort for a
> > few minutes. If you jolt from zero to cruise pace in zero seconds, I have
> > no comment since I haven't done that for many years, and HR monitors weighed
> > about 12lbs in those days...
>
> Oh, no I do occasionally decide to run a tempo run with no warm up other
> than the first mile will be a little slower but go right up to pace in
> less than 1/4 mile. Not the best way for sure but I do many things
> against the grain.
Well deacon, you best keeps those prayers cranking. Ignoring the warm-
up is a ticking bomb, not just going against the grain. There are
reasonable chances and less reasonable chances to stay off the injured
reserve list. ;)
-D
EDWARD EDMONDS
Any type of lotion or cream will work to prevent HR monitor hiccups I
usually use aloe or some type of cream, but anything with an almost
Vaseline consistency will do the job.
D Stumpus
"EDWARD EDMONDS" <edward....@gmail.com> wrote
> Any type of lotion or cream will work to prevent HR monitor hiccups I
> usually use aloe or some type of cream, but anything with an almost
> Vaseline consistency will do the job.
But do not use Vaseline itself! It's an excellent insulator, not a
conductor. Been there, done that :)