How fast could Michael Johnson run 800m.?
Rick Larush
I have been following the Carl Lewis/8 km. thread with some
interest but I think it will always remain a matter of
speculation as it is not too likely Lewis is interested in
training for and racing 8 km. However, you readers out there
might be interested in speculating whether Michael Johnson could
break Seb Coe's world 800m. record of approx. 1:41. To do so,
Johnson would have to average 50.5 sec./400m. for 2 laps. The
speed per 400m. is obviously well within his range. The question
is whether the pace would be slow enough for him to run double
his normal racing distance and not slow down. Any comments?
Mike Van Meter/Perpetual Motion
Rick Larush (rla...@acs4.acs.ucalgary.ca) wrote:
: I have been following the Carl Lewis/8 km. thread with some
Possible. I watched a guy named Hassan (first name anyone?), a World Cup
400-meter gold medalist who went to Oregon State University back when they
had a track program, run 800 meters in 1:48-1:49 range at an all-comer's
meet in Eugene back around 1979 or thereabouts with no trouble at all, and
apparently no specific training. (This may have been done on a dare.) If
someone of even higher abilities such as Johnson were to train
specifically for the event (I imagine it'd take a year or two to recruit
some muscle fibers into higher efficiency), it could be exciting. The next
question is, it seems, why would someone so successful at 200/400 want to
do such a thing?
=(O) ============================================================
__/__, Mike Van Meter <pmo...@teleport.com> ..... Perpetual Motion
_' / P.O. Box 1605, Bend, Oregon 97709 ........... 1-541-382-2083
\/\ http://www.teleport.com/~pmotion .... Running, HRMs and More
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Mr I.A. Cragg
Mike Van Meter/Perpetual Motion (pmo...@teleport.com) wrote:
: Why would someone so successful at 200/400 want to do such a thing?
That world record has stood for ages. It seems to me that given a
realistic chance of beating it, he could command quite a large
appearance fee and, no doubt, a huge bonus should he break it.
Cheers,
Ian C.
CATFISH235
:: Why would someone so successful at 200/400 want to do ::such a thing?
:That world record has stood for ages. It seems to me that :given a
realistic chance of beating it, he could command :quite a large appearance
fee and, no doubt, a huge bonus :should he break it.
Great as he is MJ hasn't broken the world record in his specialty events
yet. He may very well do this in the very near future but these are two
tough records with a lot of longevity, like Seb Coe's 800 meter record.
Without changing his training a good bit I don't think he has a realistic
chance of breaking the world record in the near future.
I kind of remember a similar type question being answered about 40 years
ago. My memory is a bit fuzzy on the facts but here it is as best as I
can remember. Tom Courtney had won the 1956 Olympic 800 meters. I think
it was at the 1957 Coliseum Relays in Los Angeles he broke the 880 yard
WR. A couple weeks later he moved up to the Mile at the Compton
Invitational Track meet, a race he rarely ran, I seem to recall.
The Coliseum Relays and Compton Invitational were very big, well attended
meets in those days. The Media built the Compton race up as Courtneys
attempt to break the 4 minute mile which at the time had never been broken
by an American and still was a very bid deal when anyone broke it.
There was an Australian Mile specialist who was one of the favorites. I
don't think it was Herb Elliot but I can't remember who for sure (Merv
Lincoln?). The coach of the Aussie opined before the race that Courtney
would run a credible race but had no chance at sub 4 because he hadn't
trained for it. Which pretty much hit the nail on the head. I seem to
recall that the Aussie won in just over 4 minutes while Courtney ran
around 4:06.
Steve M
10K doth not a Marathon make.
Patrick Mackenzie
rla...@acs4.acs.ucalgary.ca (Rick Larush) wrote:
Interesting idea! My first thought is that since Johnson is a
200/400 runner, he would have more trouble with the longer distance
than some others might. He is really a sprinter. His unusual
running form may hurt him more over 800m as well. Then again, that
form hasn't hurt him so far.
Patrick
Research Co-ordinator
Northern Labour Market Information Clearinghouse
NADC, Peace River
Rob Slater
In article <4pa50a$m...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>, rla...@acs4.acs.ucalgary.ca
(Rick Larush) wrote:
> I have been following the Carl Lewis/8 km. thread with some
> interest but I think it will always remain a matter of
> speculation as it is not too likely Lewis is interested in
> training for and racing 8 km. However, you readers out there
> might be interested in speculating whether Michael Johnson could
> break Seb Coe's world 800m. record of approx. 1:41. To do so,
> Johnson would have to average 50.5 sec./400m. for 2 laps. The
> speed per 400m. is obviously well within his range. The question
> is whether the pace would be slow enough for him to run double
> his normal racing distance and not slow down. Any comments?
I bet MJ could be a world-class 800 m runner, although I don't know if he
could run 1:41 and break Coe's record. I say that only because MJ is a
great 200 m runner, so I believe his 400 ability (and I believe that he
will break the 400 m WR this summer) comes from his raw speed. The 800
requires a great deal of stamina as well as good speed.
Rob
phil. Felton
In article <4pf2id$s...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, catfi...@aol.com
(CATFISH235) wrote:
(deleted)
> There was an Australian Mile specialist who was one of the favorites. I
> don't think it was Herb Elliot but I can't remember who for sure (Merv
> Lincoln?).
Landy perhaps (2nd man to break 4mins)
(deleted)
Phil.
Lee Nichols
> I have been following the Carl Lewis/8 km. thread with some
> interest but I think it will always remain a matter of
> speculation as it is not too likely Lewis is interested in
> training for and racing 8 km. However, you readers out there
> might be interested in speculating whether Michael Johnson could
> break Seb Coe's world 800m. record of approx. 1:41. To do so,
> Johnson would have to average 50.5 sec./400m. for 2 laps. The
> speed per 400m. is obviously well within his range. The question
> is whether the pace would be slow enough for him to run double
> his normal racing distance and not slow down. Any comments?
Always hard to say until he tries it, but maybe not. He has moved from a
top-notch 200 runner to top-notch 400; but going further up may be beyond
his range. Does he have the slow-twitch muscle fiber for the increased
distance?
An analogy: In high school, my best event was the two miles (6th in the
Texas AAA championships, 1986), and I capably moved down to the mile (also
6th). But the 800? Forget it. I've never even cracked two minutes. Just
don't have the fast-twitch for it. When I went to college, the only place
for me to go was up to the 5k/10k.
Of course, I never ran the 800 in a true race situation, and neither has
Johnson, so who knows for sure?
Lee Nichols
Austin, TX
--
"In my revolution, dancing will be encouraged."
Frederic Nicholson
I think Sebastian Coe tried a marathon and finished in 2:30. That's
obviously a good time (much better then my PR) but over 10 minutes
slower then the best masters runner.
For each person and each kind of sport there exists a maximum personal
record. One can only reach that point, but never cross it.
--
Frederic Nicholson, using v 1.3.0.1, OUI 1.3.0
from Munich, Germany 06/12/96 18:13
Jim
>In article <4pa50a$m...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>,
rla...@acs4.acs.ucalgary.ca
>(Rick Larush) wrote:
>
>> I have been following the Carl Lewis/8 km. thread with some
>> interest but I think it will always remain a matter of
>> speculation as it is not too likely Lewis is interested in
>> training for and racing 8 km. However, you readers out there
>> might be interested in speculating whether Michael Johnson could
>> break Seb Coe's world 800m. record of approx. 1:41. To do so,
>> Johnson would have to average 50.5 sec./400m. for 2 laps. The
>> speed per 400m. is obviously well within his range. The question
>> is whether the pace would be slow enough for him to run double
>> his normal racing distance and not slow down. Any comments?
>
Not that I could run a 1:41, but in comparison with others, the 800m
world record is one of the *slowest* world records. It doesn't have
the glamor of the 400m and shorter races, nor does it have the glamor
of the mile. Therefore, the best athletes such as Johnson don't train
for it. If they did, then it would be broken.
Jim
Abhay Thatte
On 12 Jun 1996, Jim wrote:
> Not that I could run a 1:41, but in comparison with others, the 800m
> world record is one of the *slowest* world records. It doesn't have
> the glamor of the 400m and shorter races, nor does it have the glamor
> of the mile. Therefore, the best athletes such as Johnson don't train
> for it. If they did, then it would be broken.
It's slow not because of a lack of competition, but 'cos around 1,200 feet
(350m) the aerobic/anerobic thredhold is crossed...
But I do feel, that a man who can run the ist lap in 45 secs easy, will,
with training, be able to hang on to run the second lap in 57...Thereby
finishing in 1:42 and assuring a gold Olympic medal, if not the WR...
Daniel Kirsner
In <4pndht$8...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> jimi...@ix.netcom.com(Jim)
writes:
>>In article <4pa50a$m...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>,
>rla...@acs4.acs.ucalgary.ca
>>(Rick Larush) wrote:
>>
>>> I have been following the Carl Lewis/8 km. thread with some
>>> interest but I think it will always remain a matter of
>>> speculation as it is not too likely Lewis is interested in
>>> training for and racing 8 km. However, you readers out there
>>> might be interested in speculating whether Michael Johnson could
>>> break Seb Coe's world 800m. record of approx. 1:41. To do so,
>>> Johnson would have to average 50.5 sec./400m. for 2 laps. The
>>> speed per 400m. is obviously well within his range. The question
>>> is whether the pace would be slow enough for him to run double
>>> his normal racing distance and not slow down. Any comments?
>>
>
>world record is one of the *slowest* world records. It doesn't have
>the glamor of the 400m and shorter races, nor does it have the glamor
>of the mile. Therefore, the best athletes such as Johnson don't train
>for it. If they did, then it would be broken.
>
Some perspective, Jim. When Sebastian Coe ran his 1:41.73 back in 1981,
the the next fastest time in history was Alberto Juantoreno's 1:43.44.
In other words, Coe had run 800 meters a whopping 1.71 seconds faster
than anyone, ever. Since that remarkable night, all of the world's top
middle-distance runners have made made attempts at both this mark and
Coe's 1000 meter mark of 2:12.18 (in which he PASSED 800 meters in
1:44.3 and continued THEN ran 200 meters in 27.8) ALL, including such
lumminaries as Ovett, Cruz, Aquita, Cram, Morcelli, Bile, ETC, have
fallen short. Yes, based on the natural progression of things, one
might expect these reccord to have fallen, BUT THESE ARE NOT EASY
MARKS! Unlike some of the records of the time, for example the 10,000
meter mark of 27:22 which was standing when Coe had his spectacular '81
summer, these are *never* going to be regardedas decent but
unspectacular times. Like Lee Evan's 43.86, like Beamon's 8.90, like
Morcelli's 3:44.39, Coe's records will be regarded with great respect
20, even 30 years hence. Give the man some credit---he was a GREAT
runner, by any standard. Running a 400 in 49.9 and then another lap in
under 51.8 is no laughing matter...As to whether Johnson could achieve
this, it's HIGHLY unlikely. Only one man in recent years----the steroid
-aided Juantoreno----has achieved greatness at both the 400 (44.26) and
800 (1:43.44), and he was a rather slow 200 meter runner...for a runner
of Johnson's speed to accomplish this is *highly* unlikely...
Mr I.A. Cragg
Jim (jimi...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: Not that I could run a 1:41, but in comparison with others, the 800m
: world record is one of the *slowest* world records.
[glamour and training]
: Jim
I'm not sure it's _that_ slow Jim! To run 1:40 requires eight 12.5s
100 metre `sprints' in a row. That has always seemed pretty quick
to me!
Cheers,
Ian C.
Jim
In <4po63p$5...@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> idea...@ix.netcom.com(Daniel
Kirsner) writes:
>
>Some perspective, Jim. When Sebastian Coe ran his 1:41.73 back in
>1981,
>the the next fastest time in history was Alberto Juantoreno's 1:43.44.
>In other words, Coe had run 800 meters a whopping 1.71 seconds faster
>than anyone, ever. Since that remarkable night, all of the world's top
>middle-distance runners have made made attempts at both this mark and
>Coe's 1000 meter mark of 2:12.18 (in which he PASSED 800 meters in
>1:44.3 and continued THEN ran 200 meters in 27.8) ALL, including such
>lumminaries as Ovett, Cruz, Aquita, Cram, Morcelli, Bile, ETC, have
>fallen short. Yes, based on the natural progression of things, one
>might expect these reccord to have fallen, BUT THESE ARE NOT EASY
>MARKS! Unlike some of the records of the time, for example the 10,000
>meter mark of 27:22 which was standing when Coe had his spectacular
>'81 summer, these are *never* going to be regardedas decent but
>unspectacular times. Like Lee Evan's 43.86, like Beamon's 8.90, like
>Morcelli's 3:44.39, Coe's records will be regarded with great respect
>20, even 30 years hence. Give the man some credit---he was a GREAT
>runner, by any standard. Running a 400 in 49.9 and then another lap in
>under 51.8 is no laughing matter...As to whether Johnson could achieve
>this, it's HIGHLY unlikely. Only one man in recent years----the
(44.26) and 800 (1:43.44), and he was a rather slow 200 meter
runner...for a runner of Johnson's speed to accomplish this is *highly*
unlikely...
I still stand by my comments that this time is, relatively speaking,
slow. I do give Coe credit - it's certainly faster than the times I
ever ran. Still, according to the Gardner Purdy equivalent performance
tables, his time is equal to a 44.2 (400m), 3:30.0 (1500m), 3:47.5 (1
mile) and 13:06.8 (5K). Compare these times to the world records and
you find that they are slow. The 12:44 5k world record time is equal
to a 1:39.1 BTW.
Regarding Juantoreno, I believe he weighed close to 180 pounds - far
too heavy for an 800 man. Looking at the times above you'll note that
Juantoreno's 400m time was equal to Coe's 800 m time. In other words,
Juantoreno's weight was already affecting him at the 800 m distance.
He's not a good candidate for comparison.
Jim
Jim
Abhay writes:
>On 12 Jun 1996, Jim wrote:
>
>> Not that I could run a 1:41, but in comparison with others, the 800m
>> the glamor of the 400m and shorter races, nor does it have the
>> glamor of the mile. Therefore, the best athletes such as Johnson >>
>> don't train for it. If they did, then it would be broken.
>
>feet (350m) the aerobic/anerobic thredhold is crossed...
>
Are you referring to the relative energy yield from aerobic versus
anaerobic processes? For every effort to exhaustion, a certain
percentage is anaerobic and the rest is obviously aerobic. Sprinting
is very anaerobic, distance running is aerobic. Therefore, there must
be some distance at which energy is 50% from each. According to
research that I have heard, this occurs at approximately two minutes in
a race to exhaustion, not at the short distance you have cited. Since
the 800 is the closest event to this time, an 800 runner must have both
strong anerobic and aerobic systems - a difficult combination to find.
Jim
Daniel Kirsner
In <Pine.PTX.3.92a.96061...@carson.u.washington.edu>
Abhay Thatte <arth...@u.washington.edu> writes:
>
>On 12 Jun 1996, Jim wrote:
>
>> Not that I could run a 1:41, but in comparison with others, the 800m
>> world record is one of the *slowest* world records. It doesn't have
>> the glamor of the 400m and shorter races, nor does it have the
glamor
>> of the mile. Therefore, the best athletes such as Johnson don't
train
>> for it. If they did, then it would be broken.
>
>It's slow not because of a lack of competition, but 'cos around 1,200
feet
>(350m) the aerobic/anerobic thredhold is crossed...
>
will,
>with training, be able to hang on to run the second lap in
57...Thereby
>finishing in 1:42 and assuring a gold Olympic medal, if not the WR...
>
45 and have it be "Easy." And Coe, btw, was not a bad 400 runner...he
ran a 45.5 split in a 1600 relay...Not Michael Johnson-esque, but
hardly slow...And he did it without specific 400 training...
academic...@gmail.com
Ed Prochak
> Are there any guys still following this thread... would love to pick guys brain on athletics
Phil M.
Ed Prochak
> > Post a new topic, don't reply to one that is 20 years old! :)
>
> I was following this thread. Came back 20 years later to revive it. LOL
need to do something to revive this group!
ed