TR: Puyallup, Vancouver & Seattle (kinda long)
JJMailman
Since I just got bumped off a flight in Sacramento (OK, I volunteered,
it’s easy money) I figured I might as well write a trip report since I
really haven't written one in awhile.
I have wanted to do this trip for a couple of years now. Like some
others here, I am a credit whore, though I do have a preference for
wooden coasters. Not just the ride, but the history and evolution of
them.
Finally the timing was right, (as were my days off, flight prices etc.)
to hit both the Puyallup Fair and "Coaster" at Playland, so I booked my
whole trip. Then my boss throws me a curveball at the last minute and
offers me a chance to work. (You may have seen the post) Anyway, my
financial situation is OK, so I decided to go, get away and have a
little fun.
Friday 9/13
Temp: mid 70’s and clear
My flight to Seattle was scheduled to land about 5pm, but we got in
about 15 minutes early, which was good, as I was going to try and meet
up with Ed Roberts (Thrillville) at the fair. The 2 previous times I’ve
flown into Seattle (continuing to Spokane), I thought it was the most
beautiful city to fly into. Those times, the flight came in from over
the water and the heart of the city. (SeaTac is located just south of
the city proper.) This time we came in from the south. Not quite as
spectacular. Oh well.
The drive down to Puyallup was only about 30 miles, but took well over
an hour, as it seemed everyone wanted to get out of Seattle. Even as
slow as it was, it was really cool to be able to see Mt. Ranier the
whole way into Puyallup. I followed the signs and found a place to park
which was close (2 blocks) to the entrance to the fair. I headed
straight for the SCAD tower (which had a line of 15-20 people all night
long), which was a gorgeous sight to see, and next to that was Ed’s
Zamperla Turbo Force. I asked around and Ed was not there, nor was he
expected. I’ve never met him, but I just assume from his posts that he’s
the kind of guy that, if he says he’s going to be there, he’s gonna be
there. Well, I hung around for about ½ an hour and still no sign of Ed.
Well, I’ll try again later, there are coasters to ride.
I found a ticket booth and bought a sheet of 20 tickets. $14. Ouch.
Wristbands were not available on Friday nights, or the weekend. Besides,
it wasn’t good on Coaster Thrill ride anyway. Yes, I tried for the
kiddie coaster, a Miler oval, but they were enforcing the 150 lb. weight
limit. I begged, but to no avail. So I headed over to Wildcat –
Supercoaster. I had to wait as there were no single riders. Fortunately,
a group of 3 walked up almost immediately. We rode, and I thought it was
beautifully lit, and tracked very well. Greased up and smooth, it was a
fun ride.
Next up was the Monster Mouse. I have NO idea who makes this. It has a
steel track very similar to the wooden mice we encountered in England.
It has a (for lack of a better term) spindle that comes from underneath
the center of the cars into a guide rail that allows the cars to tip a
little as they turn around the corners. Again, the ride required 2
riders per car. I had to wait about 20 minutes. A really fun ride, with
an extremely unique layout, up about 2/3 of the way through, where it
has these bunny hops that bottomed out pretty hard. Kathunk! Not bad,
not great, but, another credit nonetheless.
On the way to the Monster Mouse, I walked past the back side of a water
coaster called Kersplash. This one they let me ride solo. It’s kind of a
double oval, about 30 ft. high. Up lift, down hill, up hill, trim brake,
down hill, “Kersplash”, repeat. Interesting concept. Yes, it is a
coaster.
OK. Now, what I came here for, Coaster thrill Ride. This coaster only
runs during the fair, but I later found out that it can be rented for
special events. (Kevin, are you reading??) They were running 2 trains.
Anyway, I headed for the front seat for my first ride. They let me ride
solo each time, and the line was about 15 minutes at this point. I loved
the openness of the trains, along with the grease holders and tubing
that keeps the coaster always greased up. Single position lap bars that
were held down by a seat belt, but it was still 6 inches above my
waistline. Well, from the front seat I liked the ride as it was fun and
probably the most comfortable trains I’ve been on. Right up there with
High Roller at Valleyfair! The turns were tight and the articulation of
the trains navigated the course very well. But, thrilling? Mildly. I
wasn’t overly impressed. Not much in the way of laterals or airtime to
speak of. Not that I expected a lot, but maybe a little more. Well, I
went and plopped down another $14, as I was already out of tickets and 1
ride would not satisfy me. (Each ride was 5 tickets.) I decided to try
head for the back. I didn’t expect the ride to be much different. Again,
I was wrong. Pleasantly, I might add. I was thrown around quite a bit,
and the hill after the first turn around, well, it ejected me to the
H*LY SH*T stage. I got quite a good scare there. This made it a good
ride. Not a top 10 ride or anything, but a very good ride nonetheless.
I was hungry at this point and got a great big slice of pizza. Really
good stuff. As soon as I finished, I rode Coaster 3 more times, all in
the back. Loved it a little more each time. The line had got to about a
½ hour at this point, and it was turning out to be a bit expensive, so I
headed back to the SCAD tower area. I asked around, and indeed, Ed had
been there, but was now wandering around the fairgrounds. I stayed until
about 10pm, and then headed back for my hotel in Seattle.
Sorry I missed you Ed.
On the way out I found a “Puyallup Fair” gift shop. Cool. They even had
patches! None with the coaster on them, but it was legit, so I bought
one.
Saturday 9/14
Temp: 80+ and clear
I knew I had about a 3 hour drive ahead of me, so I headed out about
8am. It was cool passing the Boeing plant and airfield on the way up.
Seattle was great to drive through, as was much of the drive all the way
to the border. The radio station I was listening to gave border crossing
wait times. I thought that was odd, and cool at the same time. They
reported that the wait was about 50 minutes. Someone, here or email (I
forgot) suggested going up the truck route instead. GREAT TIP!! I got to
the border, no wait, flashed my passport, answered a couple of questions
and was on my way in 5 minutes. Really cool. “Just drive on this road
until you come to Highway 1, and take that straight into Vancouver.”
Pretty easy sounding, and it was. About 40 minutes later I came over a
rise in the road, and there was “Coaster.” Kind of hard to miss. I paid
$5US to park ($6.50 Canadian) and went in. Since I had no Canadian
money, I just used a Visa for entry. They could have charged anything.
Probably did, I’ll find out when I get my statement.
Since the PNE was closed for the summer, Playland was only open on
weekends. It looked, more or less, just like a midway at a fair. Oh
yeah, it was, nevermind. The park wasn’t too crowded yet, but I figured
I’d get my other credits, as I planned on spending the rest of the day
on Coaster. I headed right for the mouse called (oddly enough) Wild
Mouse. VERY slow loading, and only one car on the track at a time. No
single riders either. I spotted a Hypersonic t-shirt in line so I asked
if the guy was an ACEr. He turned out to be the ACE rep from Toronto. I
think his name was Steve (?). Sorry.
Another steel mouse with very good turns but with 2 adults in the car,
me being in front, banged the crap out of my knees. Cha-ching.
Next, at the back of the park was “Corkscrew.” Oh gawd, another Vekoma
corkscrew, similar to the ones I had ridden at Alton Towers and SF
Belgium. Actually, this one was very smooth and no headbanging AT ALL.
(Try it Janna, Honest!) I was actually kind of surprised.
I decided to try their turbo shot, Revelation. It was OK, nothing
outstanding, especially with Maliboomer at your home park. They were
about the same.
OK, time for “Coaster”. I have heard all the hype from everyone, but
would this hype lead me to that dreaded anticappointment?? Of the 70 ft
(+/-) wooden coasters that I’ve ridden, not too many are all that
thrilling, but they are a lot of fun. Starliner, Zingo, Coaster Thrill
Ride and The Phoenix come to mind, with the Phoenix being the best of
those (IMO). I just figured that coaster would fall into that category
as well.
Before I rode, I took some pictures and noticed a couple of things:
The trains looked almost exactly like the ones at Puyallup. Same grease
cans with feeders, same seats (VERY comfortable). Single position
locking lap bars. I also noticed the awesome sound it made, even the
chain lift. It was ALL clackity clack. No ching or ping at all. Solid
sounding. Grease all along the track, chain, everything. (Sorry Elliott,
the GD has nothing on this coaster when it comes to grease!) I finally
decided to ride. No single rider policy here. It was about a 3 train
wait, every one in the station. They were only running the orange train.
One train operation, with very quick dispatches all day long. Since the
coaster at Puyallup was better in the back, and noticing the
similarities, I headed for the back seat.
That is where the similarities end.
Even from the lift hill, this ride didn’t look like much. Seventy feet
tall, back and forth a few times, brake run. Yeah, right. This free form
twister is one mean bitch! Not much in the way of floater air, but all
ejector! (Well, except for the hill where your picture is taken, you
float all the way to standing!) The laterals are sick! Slamming up left,
right, up & down! Riding solo was of little comfort, as I was just
tossed further to the sides and had a hard time sitting up straight. How
does such a “little” coaster pack such a wallop?? Well, for everything
it was in the back, I thought I had to try the front---just to check it
out. Yeah, whatever. The front seat was twice as deadly as the back!!
The ejector air and insane laterals were just awesome! I rode a total of
11 times, spread throughout the train. By this time the line had reached
to the entrance of the queue, which was about 45 minutes, so I called it
a day.
In the 70 ft. category, “Coaster” kicks ass over all the competitors, by
a wide, wide margin! Like others have said before, I will reiterate: Go
ride Coaster, before it’s too late! (FWIW: The people at the ticket
window said that their lease or contract or whatever has them there
through the 2004 season.) This ride is simply awesome!
I made my way back to my hotel (Again, 5 mins through the border. That
was a great tip!) and crashed for the night. Watched a cool movie with
Robert Deniro and Cuba Gudding Jr. about Navy divers. Cool movie. Don’t
remember the name.
Sunday 9/15
Temp: Mid 60’s and cloudy
This weather is more like what I had expected when I decided to come up
here. Cool, but no rain.
Well, I got up a bit later than anticipated, but checked out of my hotel
and headed for Fun Forrest, near the Space Needle. With the maps and
directions I had, from RCDB and Yahoo, I found nothing but Denny Park.
No Coasters. Oh well. Drive 3 more blocks up to the Seattle Center where
the Space needle is, and guess what, Fun Forrest! Cool!
The coasters they have there are a small Miler kiddie oval and a
Windstorm, by Wisdom. For some reason, I felt like this Windstorm had a
completely different layout, than the ones at Old Towne and SCBB. I
could be wrong. Probably am. It was however, very smooth! Lots of good
positive g’s! Fun ride. Get this though, 4 ride-ops! All bored with
nothing to do. But 4! Yet Montezooma’s Revenge uses only 2! I just don’t
get it. Oh well.
I went up the Space Needle and took some pics, and reviewed the history
of the “Needle” before I left. Quite fascinating, to me, anyway. Seattle
is a really pretty city, from above and below.
Probably my last trip for the year, but you never know.
Thanks for reading,
Jeff
Holding now at 420 coasters.
Jim Mc
"JJMailman" <jjma...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3D8582A6...@earthlink.net...
> Supercoaster. I had to wait as there were no single riders. Fortunately,
> a group of 3 walked up almost immediately. We rode, and I thought it was
> beautifully lit, and tracked very well. Greased up and smooth, it was a
> fun ride.
>
> Next up was the Monster Mouse. I have NO idea who makes this. It has a
> steel track very similar to the wooden mice we encountered in England.
> It has a (for lack of a better term) spindle that comes from underneath
> the center of the cars into a guide rail that allows the cars to tip a
> little as they turn around the corners. Again, the ride required 2
> riders per car. I had to wait about 20 minutes. A really fun ride, with
> an extremely unique layout, up about 2/3 of the way through, where it
> has these bunny hops that bottomed out pretty hard. Kathunk! Not bad,
> not great, but, another credit nonetheless.
Hey Jeff the mouse is made by Herschell It is almost the same layout as
J's
but there are some differences?
>
> On the way to the Monster Mouse, I walked past the back side of a water
> coaster called Kersplash. This one they let me ride solo. It's kind of a
> double oval, about 30 ft. high. Up lift, down hill, up hill, trim brake,
> down hill, "Kersplash", repeat. Interesting concept. Yes, it is a
> coaster.
This one is made by MR. Miler. your right it is a coaster kinda fun.
>
> OK. Now, what I came here for, Coaster thrill Ride. This coaster only
> runs during the fair, but I later found out that it can be rented for
> special events. (Kevin, are you reading??) They were running 2 trains.
> Anyway, I headed for the front seat for my first ride. They let me ride
> solo each time, and the line was about 15 minutes at this point. I loved
> the openness of the trains, along with the grease holders and tubing
> that keeps the coaster always greased up. Single position lap bars that
> were held down by a seat belt, but it was still 6 inches above my
> waistline. Well, from the front seat I liked the ride as it was fun and
> probably the most comfortable trains I've been on. Right up there with
> High Roller at Valleyfair! The turns were tight and the articulation of
> the trains navigated the course very well. But, thrilling? Mildly. I
> wasn't overly impressed. Not much in the way of laterals or airtime to
> speak of. Not that I expected a lot, but maybe a little more. Well, I
> went and plopped down another $14, as I was already out of tickets and 1
> ride would not satisfy me. (Each ride was 5 tickets.) I decided to try
> head for the back. I didn't expect the ride to be much different. Again,
> I was wrong. Pleasantly, I might add. I was thrown around quite a bit,
> and the hill after the first turn around, well, it ejected me to the
> H*LY SH*T stage. I got quite a good scare there. This made it a good
> ride. Not a top 10 ride or anything, but a very good ride nonetheless.
>
you should have made it there on monday if you could of. the wrist band
is well
worth the money.
> I was hungry at this point and got a great big slice of pizza. Really
> good stuff. As soon as I finished, I rode Coaster 3 more times, all in
> the back. Loved it a little more each time. The line had got to about a
> ½ hour at this point, and it was turning out to be a bit expensive, so I
> headed back to the SCAD tower area. I asked around, and indeed, Ed had
> been there, but was now wandering around the fairgrounds. I stayed until
> about 10pm, and then headed back for my hotel in Seattle.
>
The BBQ was AWSOME (umum good!)
Jeff you should try this park in the rain like we did. Can you imagin mike
and myself
in one of those little cars! how about that last turn into the brakes.
>
> Another steel mouse with very good turns but with 2 adults in the car,
> me being in front, banged the crap out of my knees. Cha-ching.
>
> Next, at the back of the park was "Corkscrew." Oh gawd, another Vekoma
> corkscrew, similar to the ones I had ridden at Alton Towers and SF
> Belgium. Actually, this one was very smooth and no headbanging AT ALL.
> (Try it Janna, Honest!) I was actually kind of surprised.
We could not belive how smooth this coaster was.
this is one of those coasters that reely gets your attention from the
frist drop!
can you imagin ridding this coaster the day after you did four hours on
Tremers
and T.T at silverwood? Then add rain to the mix at PNE for the whole day!
ridding Coaster for most of it.
No it is the same layout as SCBB, Old town
>
> I went up the Space Needle and took some pics, and reviewed the history
> of the "Needle" before I left. Quite fascinating, to me, anyway. Seattle
> is a really pretty city, from above and below.
>
> Probably my last trip for the year, but you never know.
>
> Thanks for reading,
>
> Jeff
>
> Holding now at 420 coasters.
>
> Thanks for the great TR Jeff
I hope you had a great time
Jim Mc
>
Dave Sandborg
<jjma...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> In the 70 ft. category, “Coaster” kicks ass over all the competitors, by
> a wide, wide margin! Like others have said before, I will reiterate: Go
> ride Coaster, before it’s too late! (FWIW: The people at the ticket
> window said that their lease or contract or whatever has them there
> through the 2004 season.) This ride is simply awesome!
Woo hoo! Another convert! Is there anybody else who has any doubts?
> I went up the Space Needle and took some pics, and reviewed the history
> of the “Needle” before I left. Quite fascinating, to me, anyway. Seattle
> is a really pretty city, from above and below.
Agreed. I really could see myself living there someday...
--
Dave Sandborg
Remove Spam-away to respond via e-mail.
NASHvlMIKE
>Seattle
>> is a really pretty city, from above and below.
>
>Agreed. I really could see myself living there someday...
Man, except for ONE thing..... the frickin' weather SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS and SUCKS
!!
I visit about 3-4 times/year or so, and man, I've seen enough gray clouds
already....
My best friends live in seattle, the city supports the arts well, which is very
important to the "non roller coaster" side of me, the pacific northwest is
gorgeous beyond all belief, BUT..... I like warmth and sunshine. I lived in
Rottenchester, NY for 6 years, and lemme tell ya, the perpetual gray gets mega
old after a while. And there really aren't that many good parks/coasters in the
pnw, esp. given the PNE's doubtful future. Really, it's Silverwood to the east,
and that's about it.
- Mike
(who still contemplates the possibility of a move there except for the fact
their job situation sucks worse than the weather)
NASHvlMIKE
> This free form
>twister is one mean bitch!
best line of the year, Jeff. And yes, she is definitely that.
As mister Sandborg says in his reply, "another convert". People get your
collective asses up to this ride before it's just a blurry picture in a history
book....
-m
Dave Sandborg
<nashv...@aol.com> wrote:
> >From: Dave Sandborg sand...@Spam-away.ix.netcom.com
>
> >Seattle
> >> is a really pretty city, from above and below.
> >
> >Agreed. I really could see myself living there someday...
>
> Man, except for ONE thing..... the frickin' weather SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS and
> SUCKS
> !!
>
> I visit about 3-4 times/year or so, and man, I've seen enough gray clouds
> already....
I guess I was fortunate...my first visit, sunny every day except for
one day of early drizzle (and late fog on Mt. Rainier, but that was
cool). I don't mind rainy weather that much, though I don't know if I
could take it over the long haul.
V. Canfield
>
> "JJMailman" <jjma...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:3D8582A6...@earthlink.net...
> > Next up was the Monster Mouse. I have NO idea who makes this. It has a
> > steel track very similar to the wooden mice we encountered in England.
> > It has a (for lack of a better term) spindle that comes from underneath
> > the center of the cars into a guide rail that allows the cars to tip a
> > little as they turn around the corners. Again, the ride required 2
> > riders per car. I had to wait about 20 minutes. A really fun ride, with
> > an extremely unique layout, up about 2/3 of the way through, where it
> > has these bunny hops that bottomed out pretty hard. Kathunk! Not bad,
> > not great, but, another credit nonetheless.
>
> Hey Jeff the mouse is made by Herschell It is almost the same layout as
> J's but there are some differences?
The mushroom wheel assembly that you describe is found on the steel Wild
Mouse at Playland in Vancouver, but not on the Herschell Monster Mouse
at Puyallup.
Wolf
as
> > J's but there are some differences?
>
> The mushroom wheel assembly that you describe is found on the steel Wild
> Mouse at Playland in Vancouver, but not on the Herschell Monster Mouse
> at Puyallup.
Is the Vancouver mouse a Miler?
--
|\-/|
<0 0>
=(o)=
-Wolf
Jacob Atkinson
I made it up there this year! (TR coming, I'm only about 3 months
behind...) I spent the whole time in the backs seat, and for some
reason, never made it up for a front seat ride. I am still kicking
myself for that. I don't know why I didn't! This little coaster has
some of the most amazing airtime anywhere, and trains to die for!
Jacob
I think HW needs those trains for Legend!
Ken Rutherford
It's amazing how a flanged wheel coaster tracks so much better than the
standard wheel woodie. As far as I know, the Vancouver and Puyallop coasters
are the only big coasters with flanged wheels. Scooby's Ghoster Coaster at
Carowinds also has flanged wheels and the tracking is incredible. It not only
tracks better, but you can hear (and feel) a major difference. I agree that I
wish more coasters were built that way.
Ken
Matt Crowther
k96...@aol.com (Ken Rutherford) wrote:
The Dragon Coaster at Rye Playland has flanged wheels, as do the two
California Giant Dippers.
Ken Rutherford
California Giant Dippers. >>
Now why didn't I notice that when I rode those coasters? I guess I was not as
observant of such things back then although I do remember those awful (no
cushion seats) Morgan trains. Didn't bother me as much in Santa Cruz but the
Belmont Park Dipper HURT!
Ken
NASHvlMIKE
>I spent the whole time in the backs seat, and for some
>reason, never made it up for a front seat ride. I am still kicking
>myself for that. I don't know why I didn't!
JACOB !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you GOTTA be kidding me, man??!?!?!
You missed the ultra violence up front !
-mike
Locoboy
The old Arrow Development trains on the Santa Cruz Giant Dipper...now *THOSE* had
no padding and they HURT!
Shawn Mamros
>[...] It not only
>tracks better, but you can hear (and feel) a major difference. I agree that I
>wish more coasters were built that way.
IIRC, flanged wheels require constant lubrication (witness the oilers
on Vancouver's trains), and I believe a bit more TLC in terms of track
maintenance, than the more common Miller-style track does. So it's
a bit more costly to the park to have a flanged wheel woodie, which
would explain why we don't see more of them.
-Shawn Mamros
E-mail to: mamros -at- mit dot edu
V. Canfield
The best guess is that this machine was designed by Conklin and
constructed by Princeton Machine of Ontario, with the track imported
from Europe. It appears to be a steel copy of the German portable
wood-tracked wild mouse rides. The track arrangement is quite different
from the steel-tracked wild mouse rides made in the U.S. by Schiff,
Miler, or Herschell in the 1950s and 1960s.
Jacob Atkinson
Nope, not kidding. I am pretty sure it will haunt me until I get back,
if ever. I don't know what was going through my head!
Jacob
stupid stupid stupid!
Derek Gee
news:20020917204912...@mb-cu.aol.com...
Don't the GCI Millennium Flyer trains use a flanged wheel? IIRC, it's not
as tapered as the P & C flanged wheel trains, but it's definately a modern
interpetation of it...
Derek Gee
Locoboy
> Don't the GCI Millennium Flyer trains use a flanged wheel? IIRC, it's not
> as tapered as the P & C flanged wheel trains, but it's definately a modern
> interpetation of it...
>
> Derek Gee
No, the Millennium Flyer trains use guide wheels.
I talked to some representitives of the company where the Millennium Flyer
trains were fabricated and they said that though GCI had not specifically
designed their trains for flanged wheels and skid brakes, they said that they
didn't see any reason why the current design couldn't be modified a bit to
accomdate both wheel and brake styles. I asked them about that because there's
a certain coaster in Northern California that must use flanged wheels and skid
brakes and I would give just about *anything* to ride it with GCI Millennium
Flyer trains.
Joe Schwartz
> I talked to some representitives of the company where the Millennium Flyer
> trains were fabricated and they said that though GCI had not specifically
> designed their trains for flanged wheels and skid brakes, they said that they
> didn't see any reason why the current design couldn't be modified a bit to
> accomdate both wheel and brake styles. I asked them about that because there's
> a certain coaster in Northern California that must use flanged wheels and skid
> brakes and I would give just about *anything* to ride it with GCI Millennium
> Flyer trains.
Why must the SCBB Giant Dipper use flanged wheels?
--
Come visit Joyrides -- www.joyrides.com -- a photo gallery celebrating
the joy and beauty of amusement park rides, especially roller coasters!
Locoboy
> Why must the SCBB Giant Dipper use flanged wheels?
I'm certainly not an expert on this, but one possible reason is because the track
does not have the large vertical pieces of track steel for the guide wheels to roll
on like most modern wood coasters.
I just wouldn't want to see the coaster's track or structure modified from its
original form.
Janna Rasmussen
wrote:
>
>Next, at the back of the park was “Corkscrew.” Oh gawd, another Vekoma
>corkscrew, similar to the ones I had ridden at Alton Towers and SF
>Belgium. Actually, this one was very smooth and no headbanging AT ALL.
>(Try it Janna, Honest!) I was actually kind of surprised.
Hey, I'll try all of them once.
-Janna
Derek Gee
news:3D893D03...@hotmail.com...
> Derek Gee wrote:
>
> > Don't the GCI Millennium Flyer trains use a flanged wheel? IIRC, it's
not
> > as tapered as the P & C flanged wheel trains, but it's definately a
modern
> > interpetation of it...
> >
> > Derek Gee
>
> No, the Millennium Flyer trains use guide wheels.
True, they do have guide wheels instead of Prior & Church upstops, but the
road wheel is flanged. Look at the photo of a MF train on the bottom of
page 15 of Rollercoaster! 74 (Summer 2000). Compare to the picture of a P &
C train on page 15 of Rollercoaster! 44 (Spring 1993). The road wheel on
the P & C is much more tapered, but the MF trains have a flange.
> I talked to some representitives of the company where the Millennium Flyer
> trains were fabricated and they said that though GCI had not specifically
> designed their trains for flanged wheels and skid brakes, they said that
they
> didn't see any reason why the current design couldn't be modified a bit to
> accomdate both wheel and brake styles. I asked them about that because
there's
> a certain coaster in Northern California that must use flanged wheels and
skid
> brakes and I would give just about *anything* to ride it with GCI
Millennium
> Flyer trains.
All that would have to be done would be to remove the guide wheels, and put
upstops in their place. Looks doable from the photos referenced above.
Derek Gee
Locoboy
> True, they do have guide wheels instead of Prior & Church upstops, but the
> road wheel is flanged. Look at the photo of a MF train on the bottom of
> page 15 of Rollercoaster! 74 (Summer 2000). Compare to the picture of a P &
> C train on page 15 of Rollercoaster! 44 (Spring 1993). The road wheel on
> the P & C is much more tapered, but the MF trains have a flange.
Hmmm...interesting. The prototype GCIMillennium Flyer car from Marine World's
Roar I saw on display and photographed up close with a macro lens did not have
any flanged wheels on it whatsoever. (I'm comparing those photos I took with
Steven Wilson's Rollercoaster magazine article photos.)
Paul Asente
Locoboy <NOSPAMlo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I've heard that Marine World required GCI to build Roar to be able to
take PTC trains in case the then-in-development Millennium Flyer trains
didn't work out. So it could be that the trains for Roar have different
wheel assemblies than other Millennium Flyer trains.
-paul asente
to reply, make the return host the same as my last name
Dave Althoff Jr
: "Ken Rutherford" <k96...@aol.com> wrote in message
No, the GCI cars use three flat wheels on each wheelset, the conventional
road wheel, guide wheel, and up-stop.
In my opinion (see
http://capital2.capital.edu/admin-staff/dalthoff/coastercar.html for more
detail) the real key to the way these things track isn't the flanged
wheels, but rather the fact that the articulation of the train is more or
less correct. The wheel sets are not themselves articulated relative to
the cars, but the cars are trailered and the hitch point is located
on-center with the axle position so the the connection point is at the
car's center of lateral rotation. This gives the cars a certain amount of
independence from each other, and enables them to track without shuffling
or binding or sliding (except for, in the case of the P&C-type train, the lead
axle, which is the one that requires lubrication).
Another coaster that tracks beautifully but does not have flanged wheels
is LoCoSuMo at Indiana Beach.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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Dave Althoff Jr
: Locoboy <NOSPAMlo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
: > I talked to some representitives of the company where the Millennium Flyer
: > trains were fabricated and they said that though GCI had not specifically
: > designed their trains for flanged wheels and skid brakes, they said that they
: > didn't see any reason why the current design couldn't be modified a bit to
: > accomdate both wheel and brake styles. I asked them about that because there's
: > a certain coaster in Northern California that must use flanged wheels and skid
: > brakes and I would give just about *anything* to ride it with GCI Millennium
: > Flyer trains.
: Why must the SCBB Giant Dipper use flanged wheels?
Thinking about what I know of that ride, I'm wondering the same thing.
Guide wheels and flat road wheels ought to work just as well...the more
critical thing is that it can't have up-stop wheels because there isn't
enough clearance under the track flange, right? Has to use those flat-bar
upstops like on the Arrow Runaway Trains.
Dave Althoff Jr
: >
: > > Don't the GCI Millennium Flyer trains use a flanged wheel? IIRC, it's
: not
: > > as tapered as the P & C flanged wheel trains, but it's definately a
: modern
: > > interpetation of it...
: True, they do have guide wheels instead of Prior & Church upstops, but the
: road wheel is flanged. Look at the photo of a MF train on the bottom of
: page 15 of Rollercoaster! 74 (Summer 2000). Compare to the picture of a P &
: C train on page 15 of Rollercoaster! 44 (Spring 1993). The road wheel on
: the P & C is much more tapered, but the MF trains have a flange.
Look again at that first photo. And look more carefully at the second.
From a mechanical point of view, the GCI car is running a flat wheel.
Notice that the larger diameter section is a couple of inches wide, and
has a flat machined surface. The part that sticks out in the middle is
the outer bearing cup cast into the wheel, and not only is it not machined
and would not make a suitable running surface for the wheel, it looks like
there is a grease zerk protruding from that surface (in the photo it is
near the top, just under the car running board). I wouldn't want the road
surface of the wheel to run over the grease zerk on each wheel rotation;
that would make for a really rough ride. 8-)
By comparison, in the other photo you can see that the flange on the P&C
wheel is only about 1/4" thick. The running surface is tapered a little;
partly that is because the joint between the flange and the road surface
has to be radiused, and it appears that the train ran on a cast wheel
which was not machined. That car is a restored museum piece...is that an
original wheel that has operated on the ride? What is the wear pattern on
such a wheel? The track surface would be flat relative to the wheel, and
the radius would create a relatively small contact patch compared with the
inch and a half or whatever for the road surface of a flat wheel. Or is
the road contact surface well outboard of the flange, where the wheel
surface is almost flat?
Iain Hendry
news:amif20$898$1...@acme.gcfn.org...
> less correct. The wheel sets are not themselves articulated relative to
> the cars, but the cars are trailered and the hitch point is located
> on-center with the axle position so the the connection point is at the
> car's center of lateral rotation. This gives the cars a certain amount of
> independence from each other, and enables them to track without shuffling
> or binding or sliding (except for, in the case of the P&C-type train, the
lead
> axle, which is the one that requires lubrication).
The wheels on the GCI trains still won't follow the track at a tangent,
though. They'll intrack slightly, but so slightly it isn't likely even
noteable.
The distance between the trailer hitch and that car's axle is the point on
which the vehicle's centreline will be tangent to the rail. Wheels ahead of
that will scrub the outside rail of the curve, wheels behind will scrub the
inside.
Of interest, the only train (ie, big trains, not coasters) wheel system I am
aware of in the entire world that tracks perfectly true is that developed by
the then-known Urban Transit Development Corporation (UTDC) in which
individual axles within the bogie frames are allowed to pivot, and are
controlled mechanically by the rotation of the bogie frame relative to the
car itself. You can find these systems in Vancouver (Skytrain), Detroit
(DPM), Toronto (rt), JFK Airport (Airtrain), Kuala Lumpur (PUTRA), etc...
UTDC was absorbed by Bombardier in the late 80's, if I recall correctly.
Admitedly I don't quite understand how TALGO (ie, Amtrak Cascades) is doing
it but their system may also be geometrically perfect, but I'm not sure.
Iain
Dave Althoff Jr
: "Dave Althoff Jr" <dal...@gcfn.org> wrote in message
: news:amif20$898$1...@acme.gcfn.org...
: > less correct. The wheel sets are not themselves articulated relative to
: > the cars, but the cars are trailered and the hitch point is located
: > on-center with the axle position so the the connection point is at the
: > car's center of lateral rotation. This gives the cars a certain amount of
: > independence from each other, and enables them to track without shuffling
: > or binding or sliding (except for, in the case of the P&C-type train, the
: lead
: > axle, which is the one that requires lubrication).
: The wheels on the GCI trains still won't follow the track at a tangent,
: though. They'll intrack slightly, but so slightly it isn't likely even
: noteable.
: The distance between the trailer hitch and that car's axle is the point on
: which the vehicle's centreline will be tangent to the rail. Wheels ahead of
: that will scrub the outside rail of the curve, wheels behind will scrub the
: inside.
Right.
Now take a look at the photo of the back of the ROAR car on p. 15 of RC!74
again. That's the photo above and to the left of the picture of the
wheel. You can see in that photo what appear to be long spindles for the
road wheels. You can also see the large space under the center of the
back seat directly between those spindles, the attachment point for the
spherical bearing that forms the hitch for the car. In the photo of the
front of the car you can see that the bearing itself is at the extreme
forward end of a tongue adapted to be attached directly in-line with and
probably slightly above the road wheel.
The exact angle of the wheels may not be precisely at a tangent with the
rail because the angle will be set by the chord between the car's hitch
and its axle. But the point of rotation will be the center of the axle,
and because the hitch point for the next car is located at that point of
rotation, the chord in question is always going to sit between points
along the track centerline. That's going to tend to reduce the magnitude
of mistracking to about as little as it can possibly be with fixed
wheelsets. The only way to reduce it further would be to pivot the axle
and equip it with pilot wheels (as Arrow did on their looping coaster
train) or to put each road wheel on its own yaw axis and equip it with a
pilot wheel (as B&M do on their coasters, or as PTC did on the Scooby
Doo trains, or as CCI did on LoCoSuMo).
For all practical purposes, the GCI cars are a whole lot closer to perfect
than any other modern wood coaster cars I've seen (except LoCoSuMo).
Iain Hendry
> For all practical purposes, the GCI cars are a whole lot closer to perfect
> than any other modern wood coaster cars I've seen (except LoCoSuMo).
Oh I'm not disputing that, I'm just pointing out that even the GCI trains
aren't geometrically perfect. But they're damn close.
Iain
Locoboy
> Thinking about what I know of that ride, I'm wondering the same thing.
> Guide wheels and flat road wheels ought to work just as well...the more
> critical thing is that it can't have up-stop wheels because there isn't
> enough clearance under the track flange, right? Has to use those flat-bar
> upstops like on the Arrow Runaway Trains.
True, the Giant Dipper's trains ahve upstop skids, but they're not as thick as the ones
on the Arrow mine trains or the Morgan mine trains. (Quicksilver Express' trains have
upstop skids.)
Locoboy
> I've heard that Marine World required GCI to build Roar to be able to
> take PTC trains in case the then-in-development Millennium Flyer trains
> didn't work out. So it could be that the trains for Roar have different
> wheel assemblies than other Millennium Flyer trains.
Good point Paul! I had heard about that "must be able to use PTC trains"
requirement from Marine World/Six Flags before, but I had forgotten about it.
Derek Gee
Thanks for the more complete explanation, Dave! I knew we could count on
you. I'm not an engineer, so I'm not sure what the answers are to the
questions you posed. The P & C wheels pictured look correct to me. They
are very similar to the Kiddie Bobs train wheels pictured in my book, "Laugh
Your Troubles Away - The Complete History of Riverview Park". As far as
wear patterns to those wheels, I'll try and ask a former coaster maintenance
guy for Riverview/Idora Park to see if he may remember. I'll post more if I
can get the info...
Derek Gee
Richard Bonner
> > Saturday 9/14
> > Temp: 80+ and clear
*** That would be 27 degrees in Canada. (-:
> > About 40 minutes later I came over a
> > rise in the road, and there was "Coaster." Kind of hard to miss. I paid
> > $5US to park ($6.50 Canadian)
*** $6.50 Canadian is actually about $4.25 U.S.
> > and went in. Since I had no Canadian
> > money, I just used a Visa for entry. They could have charged anything.
> > Probably did, I'll find out when I get my statement.
*** Don't you keep your receipts? THe Canadian amount would be on it.
The U.S. amount is what your bank charges. Also, you could have used your
bank card to get Canadian cash as required.
> > Since the PNE was closed for the summer, Playland was only open on
> > weekends.
*** The PNE does not run all sumner, but Playland does. After Labour
Day, it drops back to weekend operation. I believe The PNE is a three-week
run in August.
> > It looked, more or less, just like a midway at a fair. Oh
> > yeah, it was, nevermind.
*** Correct. Playland was the successor to Happyland. Both grew out of
The PNE (originally "Vancouver Exhibition"). For the full Happyland
story, search on "Happyland" at:
www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ak621/CEC/ClosPark.html
> > Next, at the back of the park was "Corkscrew." Oh gawd, another Vekoma
> > corkscrew, similar to the ones I had ridden at Alton Towers and SF
> > Belgium. Actually, this one was very smooth and no headbanging AT ALL.
*** This ride was The "Screamer" at Boblo Island. Playland bought it
after Boblo closed.
> > OK, time for "Coaster".
> >
> > Before I rode, I took some pictures and noticed a couple of things:
> > The trains looked almost exactly like the ones at Puyallup. Same grease
> > cans with feeders, same seats (VERY comfortable). Single position
> > locking lap bars.
*** Phare rolling stock design is similar to Prior & Church.
Interestingly, the trains on the Puyallup coaster were taken from the
"Giant Dipper", originally located across The PNE lot to where Happyland
used to be. The Pacific Coliseum and race track occupy that space
today. See the previous URL for that information, too.
> > Even from the lift hill, this ride didn't look like much. Seventy feet
> > tall, back and forth a few times, brake run. Yeah, right. This free form
> > twister is one mean bitch! Not much in the way of floater air, but all
> > ejector! (Well, except for the hill where your picture is taken, you
> > float all the way to standing!) The laterals are sick! Slamming up left,
> > right, up & down! Riding solo was of little comfort, as I was just
> > tossed further to the sides and had a hard time sitting up straight. How
> > does such a "little" coaster pack such a wallop?? Well, for everything
> > it was in the back, I thought I had to try the front---just to check it
> > out. Yeah, whatever. The front seat was twice as deadly as the back!!
> > The ejector air and insane laterals were just awesome!
*** Carl Phare knew what he was doing. A coaster need not be tall and
fast to give a great ride. A good portion of the ride quality is due to
the single-bench rolling stock with universal couplers. It tracks very
well.
> > In the 70 ft. category, "Coaster" kicks ass over all the competitors, by
> > a wide, wide margin!
> >
> > Jeff
*** Despite the big and powerful coasters around today, "Coaster" still
sits in many enthusiasts' Top Ten lists.
Richard Bonner
Managing Director:
The Coaster Enthusiasts of Canada
www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ak621/CEC/CEC.html