Texas Himalaya Death -- Update
Jason Knutson
Today a Travis county grand jury indicted 9 people for murder.
The ride owners, inspectors, and operators have been charged with murder for
the death of the girl that was thrown from the Himalaya ride at the Travis
county livestock show and rodeo back in....March I believe.
The jury decided there was enough evidence to show that the owners and
inspectors knew the ride was unsafe and that the operators of the ride were
running it at an unsafe speed.
--
Jason Knutson---Austin, TX ACE Member
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Joe Schwartz
> Just in on the 5:00 news here in Austin.
>
> Today a Travis county grand jury indicted 9 people for murder.
> The ride owners, inspectors, and operators have been charged with murder for
> the death of the girl that was thrown from the Himalaya ride at the Travis
> county livestock show and rodeo back in....March I believe.
>
> The jury decided there was enough evidence to show that the owners and
> inspectors knew the ride was unsafe and that the operators of the ride were
> running it at an unsafe speed.
I'm surprised that they were charged with murder. I don't know much about
the law, but I thought murder requires intent. Even if the owners knew
that an accident was possible, I doubt that they *intended* to kill
anybody. Shouldn't this be a manslaughter charge instead?
------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Schwartz (j...@joyrides.com) -- 5 Broadway #407, Troy, NY 12180
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Eric Gieszl
hard to prove that there was intent. It would be almost stupid for a DA
to try to get a murder conviction. Manslaughter is more likely.
Also, nine? Can you post the article when you see it please.
--
Eric Gieszl
--------------------------------------------------
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David Bowers
<jas...@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>Just in on the 5:00 news here in Austin.
>
>Today a Travis county grand jury indicted 9 people for murder.
>The ride owners, inspectors, and operators have been charged with murder for
>the death of the girl that was thrown from the Himalaya ride at the Travis
>county livestock show and rodeo back in....March I believe.
>
>The jury decided there was enough evidence to show that the owners and
>inspectors knew the ride was unsafe and that the operators of the ride were
>running it at an unsafe speed.
Thanks for the update!
Boy, I for one had forgotten all about this. (for those who did
forget,, this was the Himalaya which I beleive experienced lap bar
failure resulting in one death.) Thanks for providing closure......
Thomas P. Kelley
> "Jason Knutson" <jas...@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Just in on the 5:00 news here in Austin.
> >
> > Today a Travis county grand jury indicted 9 people for murder.
> > The ride owners, inspectors, and operators have been charged with murder for
> > the death of the girl that was thrown from the Himalaya ride at the Travis
> > county livestock show and rodeo back in....March I believe.
> >
> > The jury decided there was enough evidence to show that the owners and
> > inspectors knew the ride was unsafe and that the operators of the ride were
> > running it at an unsafe speed.
>
> I'm surprised that they were charged with murder. I don't know much about
> the law, but I thought murder requires intent. Even if the owners knew
> that an accident was possible, I doubt that they *intended* to kill
> anybody. Shouldn't this be a manslaughter charge instead?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Joe Schwartz (j...@joyrides.com) -- 5 Broadway #407, Troy, NY 12180
>
> Come visit the Joyrides website <http://www.joyrides.com>,
> a photo gallery celebrating the joy and beauty of amusement rides!
In some states you can be charged with murder if the negligence is so
great that it could be construed to be intent. When I worked in South
Carolina an acquaintance was involved in a car accident and was prosecuted
on a murder charge. The jury, however, rejected that charge and returned a
verdict of guilty of vehicular manslaughter, finding that the negligence
was not enough to constitute murder.
So, the Himalaya case could involve a murder charge, but that doesn't mean
that's the only thing the people could be found guilty or innocent of.
Can any of our lawyer friends, or anyone familiar with Texas law, shed
additional light on this?
Tom Kelley
tpke...@mindspring.com
Jason Knutson
Grand jury issues Himalaya indictments
By Bob Banta
American-Statesman Staff
Published: Sept. 29, 1998
Grand jurors issued murder indictments Tuesday against nine persons --
ranging from corporation owners to low-level employees -- in the death of a
McNeil High School girl who was thrown from a carnival ride March 19.
Holding the executives of a company criminally responsible for a death on
one of their rides may be unprecedented in the nation's amusements ride
industry, Rosemary Lehmberg, first assistant district attorney for Travis
County, said Tuesday.
The nine people indicted include the owners, employees and associates of B&B
Amusements, an Arizona-based company that owned the Himalaya ride on which
15-year-old Leslie Lane was killed.
"The grand jury believes that a company like B&B cannot come into this
community and, for profit, expose our citizens to the hazards of that ride,"
said Lehmberg.
"Not only the people who operated the ride that night, but the inspectors
and the owners are responsible for the death of this child," she said.
Lane's family declined to comment on the indictment on Tuesday. Their
attorney, Joe Crews, said they were "overwhelmed" and "broke down" in his
office upon hearing the news.
Full story in Wednesday's American-Statesman, and on Austin 360
Enjoralas
IMHO, there is no way they will get a murder charge to stick. I just don't
think they will be able to convince 12 persons that there was intent. I know
that if I were a juror on a case like this, I wouldn't even need to hear much
evidence to vote that there was no intent. Did the inspector say, "Hey, this
air lap bear doan work, but Ahm agonna pass it anyways an' see if'n we can't
take sumody aht." Did an operator say, "Hey, let's increase the speed, and see
who flies out and dies?" No? NOT GUILTY.
Manslaughter, maybe. Murder, definitely not.
Walt Breymier
MrFreeze94
>IMHO, there is no way they will get a murder charge to stick. I just don't
>think they will be able to convince 12 persons that there was intent.
In Texas anything is possible.
-Dave
Home parks SFFT and SWoT
CrackAxle Rides 1996-1997 SFFT
Tell me what you need and I'll tell you how to get along without it!!
Jason Knutson
District attorney's office says it is possible indictments against ride
owners will be reduced
Go here for the article.
http://www.austin360.com/news/001metro/10oct/01/1himalaya.htm
It's a long one.....
BibleBoy
unintentionally.... someone is dead and it's their fault. Hopefully, if
there be anyone else out there who does that, they'll get scared and
actually FIX something. Granted, this isn't going to keep me from riding
rides, but maybe it'll make them safer?
--
Your CyberBrother in Christ,
Bob K Mertz bibl...@westol.com
http://www.westol.com/~bibleboy
Tim Melago
>
> Experts: Murder hard to prove in carnival death
>
> District attorney's office says it is possible indictments against ride
> owners will be reduced
>
> Go here for the article.
> http://www.austin360.com/news/001metro/10oct/01/1himalaya.htm
>
> It's a long one.....
Question: Does it make sense that the children were thrown from the
car because the lapbar failed? I would think that I would be able
to ride a Himilaya without a lapbar, sit up properly and have no
problems. The forces seem to push you to the left and back so I
don't see how the kids all flew out. Did they stand up in a panic
after the lapbar fell off? Standing is the only way I can see the
ride throwing people off. At Coney Island I saw a guy (DJ?) standing
on a moving Himilaya dancing although the speed might not have been
that high. It certainly is a tragedy and the lapbar did fail but I
don't understand why the kids flew out.
--
*******************************************
* Tim Melago * HOME PARKS *
* roll...@sgi.net * Idlewild - Kennywood *
*******************************************
Dave Althoff
: Jason Knutson wrote:
: >
: > Experts: Murder hard to prove in carnival death
: >
: > District attorney's office says it is possible indictments against ride
: > owners will be reduced
: >
: > Go here for the article.
: > http://www.austin360.com/news/001metro/10oct/01/1himalaya.htm
: >
: > It's a long one.....
: Question: Does it make sense that the children were thrown from the
: car because the lapbar failed? I would think that I would be able
: to ride a Himilaya without a lapbar, sit up properly and have no
: problems. The forces seem to push you to the left and back so I
: don't see how the kids all flew out. Did they stand up in a panic
: after the lapbar fell off? Standing is the only way I can see the
: ride throwing people off. At Coney Island I saw a guy (DJ?) standing
: on a moving Himilaya dancing although the speed might not have been
: that high. It certainly is a tragedy and the lapbar did fail but I
: don't understand why the kids flew out.
I thought the same thing, except...
What if the ride was running BACKWARDS? Then, the forces which would
normally serve to plant riders in their seats would tend to drag them out.
I did notice that the CPSC bulletin (you can read it on the NAARSO web
site, http://www.naarso.com) on the Reverchon Himalaya mentions that (a)
the lap bar, if secured with cotter keys, should use stainless steel
cotter keys; (b) that the ride should be run at 12 RPM with all motors
working and at 10 RPM with a motor out of service; (c) that the ride
should not be operated with more than three (or was it two) seats roped
off; and (d) that the ride should not be run in reverse.
Incidentally, Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom has a Reverchon Himalaya. When I
rode it earlier this season it was in excellent condition, but they were
only running it at 10 RPM. All of the other Himalayas I have seen in
parks this season have been Mack or Majestic models.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
--
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Greg VG
BibleBoy <bibl...@westol.com> wrote in article
<Pine.LNX.3.96.98100...@bibleboy.dyn.ml.org>...
> Who cares? They killed somebody.... whether intently or
> unintentionally.... someone is dead and it's their fault.
Actually, if you read the numerous articles on this topic, B&B Amusements
didn't kill anybody, at least not by themselves and not, so it seems,
intentionally. Several inspectors inspected this ride before it ran at the
fair and no one pointed out any problems. The two other passengers
received only minor injuries from the accident. Ms. Lane was unfortunate
in the fact that she hit the back wall with her head.
Although I haven't actually reviewed the Texas statutes for murder, murder
in these types of equipment failures or accidents don't exist. The first
corporation to have murder charges against it was Ford Motor Corp. for its
Pinto car when the company decided to it was less costly to pay claims for
incidents with its fuel system than to recall all the cars and make the
correction. Even then, Ford was never found liable for murder.
Greg
Dave Althoff
: BibleBoy <bibl...@westol.com> wrote in article
: <Pine.LNX.3.96.98100...@bibleboy.dyn.ml.org>...
: > Who cares? They killed somebody.... whether intently or
: > unintentionally.... someone is dead and it's their fault.
: Actually, if you read the numerous articles on this topic, B&B Amusements
: didn't kill anybody, at least not by themselves and not, so it seems,
: intentionally. Several inspectors inspected this ride before it ran at the
: fair and no one pointed out any problems. The two other passengers
: received only minor injuries from the accident. Ms. Lane was unfortunate
: in the fact that she hit the back wall with her head.
In fact, if I read the articles correctly, various inspectors (including
the BG&A inspector) *did* find problems with the ride, *did* report those
problems to the owner ("these three latches don't work...don't put anyone
in these tubs until you fix 'em; don't run the ride any faster than 10
RPM"). Which is why I wonder about the two indictments handed down on the
independent inspectors. It seems to me that they did exactly what they
would be expected to do...they inspected the ride and reported their
findings to the ride owner, and made reccommendations...reccommendations
which may or may not have been followed.
On the issue of ride speed, the Austin360 web site claims that the
inspector specified that the ride not run faster than 10 RPM. Reverchon
actually specifies 12 RPM as the maximum speed for the ride, and the tests
conducted after the incident prove only that the ride was *capable* of
running as fast as 15 RPM...not that it actually *was* running that fast at
the time of the incident. Bystanders cannot be relied on to tell whether
a ride is running "too fast" unless they happen to be taking timings with
a stopwatch (which I personally have been known to do, but then I am a
weirdo... 8-) ).
: Although I haven't actually reviewed the Texas statutes for murder, murder
: in these types of equipment failures or accidents don't exist. The first
: corporation to have murder charges against it was Ford Motor Corp. for its
: Pinto car when the company decided to it was less costly to pay claims for
: incidents with its fuel system than to recall all the cars and make the
: correction. Even then, Ford was never found liable for murder.
Greg, did you see the article in yesterday's (Thursday's) Austin American
Statesman (or whatever it is) in which the Ford case was cited, and it was
noted that the judge set bail for the defendants at a level commensurate
with criminal negligence rather than for murder? I don't understand what
the prosecutor is trying to do here with the murder indictments. Murder
requires intent, and while the carnival may have been negligent in failing
to take steps which would have prevented the accident, they did not fail
to take those steps knowing that such failure would likely result in a
fatal incident. They certainly didn't set up the rides saying, "Let's see
if we can kill someone today." No operation does that; it tends to kill
the repeat business...
Greg VG
Dave Althoff <dal...@freenet.columbus.oh.us> wrote in article
<6v39eq$8...@login.freenet.columbus.oh.us>...
> Greg VG (minn...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
>
> : BibleBoy <bibl...@westol.com> wrote in article
> : <Pine.LNX.3.96.98100...@bibleboy.dyn.ml.org>...
> : > Who cares? They killed somebody.... whether intently or
> : > unintentionally.... someone is dead and it's their fault.
>
<snipped some comments>
>
> On the issue of ride speed, the Austin360 web site claims that the
> inspector specified that the ride not run faster than 10 RPM. Reverchon
> actually specifies 12 RPM as the maximum speed for the ride, and the
tests
> conducted after the incident prove only that the ride was *capable* of
> running as fast as 15 RPM...not that it actually *was* running that fast
at
> the time of the incident. Bystanders cannot be relied on to tell whether
> a ride is running "too fast" unless they happen to be taking timings with
> a stopwatch (which I personally have been known to do, but then I am a
> weirdo... 8-) ).
***I agree with you Dave. Standard operating procedure has operators of
these type of rides asking the riders if they want to go faster, but I am
not sure that that type of speech is more of a psychological ploy than
anything else.
I think that the prosecutors must indict based on the findings of the grand
jury while the judge in this case has discretion to set the bail amount
based on a number of factors including likelihood of flight and the type of
offense the judge believes may have been committed. This opinion based
solely on knowledge but not on actual practice in the criminal field.
Greg