Updates on Cirque Du Soleil's discrimination against people with HIV
David H.--REMOVE STOPSPAM to reply
carousel horse, so technicality.... ;-)
The quickie version of this is that Cirque Du Soleil in it's latest
statement to the San Francisco Human Rights Commission, they admitted that
they will not hire performers who are HIV positive. You can skip to the
bottom for the latest and some links.
In any case, in many discussions in this newsgroup about other things to do
while in Vegas and Orlando (and elsewhere) to ride coasters, Cirque Du
Soleil's shows have come up as an option. This led to a brief discussion
-- one I admittedly started -- of the fact that they fired performer
Matthew Cusick from their Mystere show in Las Vegas for no other reason
than because he had HIV
A few people here claimed that I didn't have all the "facts". They claimed
that they did offer him another performing job. They also claimed that
there were probabaly other factors in Cusick's firing.
Well, their sources turned out to be an ANONYMOUS post made to a gay
news/discussion site by someone claiming to be the significant other of a
performer who read about the case on another anonymous discussion group for
Cirque performers. That's a source almost as good as the Dippin Dots guy!
And those "facts" appear to not be true. It seems that they never did
offer him another performing job. And they openly admitted that the ONLY
reason that they fired him was because he had HIV. They claimed that "Our
employment decision was made solely for safety reasons." Cirque themselves
denied the talk of there being other factors, such as his performance or
attitude, as some Cirque fans here claimed (despite having no actual
knowledge.
In fact, their statements about the alleged risk associated with the
performances is suspect itself. There is not a single known case of HIV
transmission from athletics or gymnastics. Long time AIDS experts have
come out against their decision. Athletics and gymnastics organizations do
NOT recommend ANY restrictions on HIV positive athletes and performers. In
fact, Cirque's own doctor cleared him for his performances.
But the latest statement from Cirque is even more damning. They are now
openly admitting that they will not hire HIV positive people for
performance jobs. Instead, perhaps, they should be dishwashers! Yet,
somehow, despite this being against the law, they try to claim that it
isn't discrimination.
The San Francisco Human Rights Commission has started another investigation
against Cirque. In their statement to the commission, Cirque said, "There
are many employment positions that would be suited to an individual with
HIV. These positions include dishwashers, dining room attendants, prep
cooks, box office staff, box office assistants, ushers, hosts/hostesses,
food and beverage staff, public sales assistants, merchandising staff and
hawkers. Any one of these positions could be filled by an individual with
HIV."
It will be interesting to see how Cirque's supporters here will defend
these actions. Of course, they'll use fear and ignorance, not science, in
doing so. The simple truth is that there is negligible risk of HIV
transmission from ANY of Cirque's acts. The risk of injury and death form
the performances themselves is actually significantly greater. And the
simple truth is that in firing Matthew Cusick and in continuing to refuse
to hire performers who have HIV, they are violating the anti-descrimination
laws of the United States and most states.
Nevada's Equal Employment Opportunities Commission in Nevada should be
finishing up their investigation this month. Given Cirque's own
statements, I can't imagine that they're going to prevail. But will they
settle, or take it to full court, where they'll undoubtedly lose?
And now picket lines are showing up at Cirque shows.
Something to think about before you buy a ticket....
The latest updates, including quotes from Cirque's letter to the San
Francisco Human Rights Commission:
http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/documents/record?record=1383
Cirque's open admission that they fired Matthew Cusick only because he had
HIV:
http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/documents/record?record=1366
http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/documents/record?record=1365
More info:
http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/cases/record?record=185
David Hamburger, davi...@STOPSPAMbellatlantic.net, Boston, MA
PLEASE remove "STOPSPAM" from my address when replying via e-mail.
"I think that gay marriage is something that
should be between a man and a woman,"
California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
Walt Breymier
(David H.--REMOVE "STOPSPAM" to reply) wrote:
>And now picket lines are showing up at Cirque shows.
Jesus, and here I thought that I would probably never go to a Cirqe
du Solay show in my life.
But the opportunity to walk through one of those picket lines seems
like it could make it worthwhile!!
Walt Breymier
AirtimeJunkie
>du Solay show in my life.
>
> But the opportunity to walk through one of those picket lines seems
>like it could make it worthwhile!!
>
I guess if you had HIV then you might think differently.
Kevin
Evil One
Or if you were a screaming, flaming queen like David Hamburger presents
himself.
I went to La Nouba again on Satuday. Oh no! I AM THE ANTI-GAY!!!1!
hogfat
> Athletics and gymnastics organizations do
> NOT recommend ANY restrictions on HIV positive athletes and performers.
does not the nba cease all play at the simple sight of blood?
Rastus O'Ginga
<bigb...@camprrc.com> wrote:
>
> Jesus, and here I thought that I would probably never go to a Cirqe
>du Solay show in my life.
>
> But the opportunity to walk through one of those picket lines seems
>like it could make it worthwhile!!
>
> Walt Breymier
I don't know. When I go to acrobatic shows, I always like the added
excitement of that possibility of catching an incurable fatal disease
if someone gets injured near me.
Rastus O'Ginga
Winner of the 2nd Annual C. Montgomery Burns Award for
Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence.
"What an awful dream, 1s and 0s everywhere... I thought I saw a 2." - Bender
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AirtimeJunkie
>
>
I never said that anyone who goes to see a Cirque show is anti-gay, so I'm not
sure why you made that particular comment. Based on the fact that a few of my
HIV+ friends are healthy and fine, my personal choice is to no longer spend my
$ on Cirque shows as I do not agree with their hiring practices.
Kevin
"who LOVES Cirque du Soleil shows"
Rastus O'Ginga
wrote:
Why is that? If I had an incurable fatal disease, I wouldn't go
around acting like it's my right to put others at risk of catching it.
If you have AIDS, the people around you should know it, PERIOD. It is
not your right to not tell me I will die if some of your blood enters
my body.
lkng4chubs
securly cleaned and covered. OMG, I actually know a basketball fact.
"hogfat" <hog...@dizzle.orgies> wrote in message
news:QDIKb.61976$fq1....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Iain Hendry
> I don't know. When I go to acrobatic shows, I always like the added
> excitement of that possibility of catching an incurable fatal disease
> if someone gets injured near me.
LOL! I woulnd't think there'd be any more risk there than standing behind
someone with AIDS on an ecsalator.
In fact, I bet someone's far more likely to fall on the escalator and get
their AIDS all over you than one of the Cirque performers. I don't think
they go flying off into the audience bleeding with any sort of frequency.
Iain
Rastus O'Ginga
<military...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"Rastus O'Ginga" <ras...@kingwoodXXXXXcable.net> wrote:
>
>> I don't know. When I go to acrobatic shows, I always like the added
>> excitement of that possibility of catching an incurable fatal disease
>> if someone gets injured near me.
>
>LOL! I woulnd't think there'd be any more risk there than standing behind
>someone with AIDS on an ecsalator.
>
>In fact, I bet someone's far more likely to fall on the escalator and get
>their AIDS all over you than one of the Cirque performers.
Another reason why AIDS is taken way too lightly in this society.
> I don't think
>they go flying off into the audience bleeding with any sort of frequency.
Why is that? It's a very physical performace with people flying all
over the place. Plenty of opportunities to get cut. Obviously it is
a big deal or they never would have made such an un-PC move when they
probably have a very heavily gay audience and troop.
William J. Buckley
allow known HIV+ people into the country (well, from Canada at least...)?
Rastus O'Ginga
Because the gays think they should get their way.
Plain and simple: AIDS kills, and can not be cured. As an added
bonus, it is easily passed from person to person through blood, and
possibly spit.
Now, why the fuck would I want to be around someone with it at all,
let alone in any sort of physical situation.
HIV+ people are treated like a disease BECAUSE THEY ARE A DISEASE!!!
Whether or not they deserved to get the disease doesn't matter. Thye
should realize that us folks who DON'T have AIDS aren't really looking
to acquire it. And that can be easily accomplished by avoiding all
people with AIDS.
Ron-Pmon1
>let alone in any sort of physical situation.
Maybe because the possibility that a loved one will get HIV and you will have
to be around them, or will you just abandon them? Or maybe you have no loved
ones because of your ignorant attitude? Wake up.
_______
/- Ron -\
\- Pmon1-/
**********
Iain Hendry
> >In fact, I bet someone's far more likely to fall on the escalator and get
> >their AIDS all over you than one of the Cirque performers.
>
> Another reason why AIDS is taken way too lightly in this society.
I'm confused....? What do you mean? I was just making a comparison. I
think that if you spend any time in public you're subjecting yourself to
that risk, not just when you go see a performance. Like, if you're in an
airplane, what if the plane crashes, and someone with AIDS gets sucked into
the engine, and they spray a huge AIDS blood cloud over an entire city?
Maybe you should start wearing a mask.
> > I don't think
> >they go flying off into the audience bleeding with any sort of frequency.
> Why is that?
Skill?
> It's a very physical performace with people flying all
> over the place. Plenty of opportunities to get cut. Obviously it is
> a big deal or they never would have made such an un-PC move when they
> probably have a very heavily gay audience and troop.
I don't know, I was kind of under the impression that like all gay people
had AIDS anyway.
Iain
William J. Buckley
"Iain Hendry" <military...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6BSKb.17467$AAe1...@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> I don't know, I was kind of under the impression that like all gay people
> had AIDS anyway.
All gay people and all drug users, last I knew < /sarcasm >
Rastus O'Ginga
> Maybe because the possibility that a loved one will get HIV and you will have
> to be around them, or will you just abandon them? Or maybe you have no loved
> ones because of your ignorant attitude? Wake up.
Hey, good idea. I should make it a point to spend lots of time with
folks with incurable, transmittable, deadly diseases that their own
life choices caused them to contract. I bet if I did that, the
chances of a loved one getting it would even increase.
Great idea, dumbass.
Sam Marks
>folks with incurable, transmittable, deadly diseases that their own
>life choices caused them to contract.
ugh, there ya go again!
Yea I'm sure someone's gonna CHOOSE a lifestyle that would result in deadly
disease.
Get with it, silly child, did you CHOOSE to be Straight?
Thomas
> On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 04:30:08 GMT, "William J. Buckley"
> <vze1...@verizon.netNONE> wrote:
>
> >I'd like to know how this is any different than immigration laws that do not
> >allow known HIV+ people into the country (well, from Canada at least...)?
>
>
> Because the gays think they should get their way.
No. I wasn't aware that all HIV-infected people were gay. I wonder
what that says about Magic Johnson.
>
> Plain and simple: AIDS kills, and can not be cured. As an added
> bonus, it is easily passed from person to person through blood, and
> possibly spit.
Ummm No. You cannot be infected through spit. It's amazing that
people will claim doctors don't know what they are talking about,
especially when the individual making such a claim has no scientific
background whatsoever.
>
> Now, why the fuck would I want to be around someone with it at all,
> let alone in any sort of physical situation.
>
> HIV+ people are treated like a disease BECAUSE THEY ARE A DISEASE!!!
Nope. They are not. Do you avoid people suffering from cancer? Even
if an HIV-infected person does start bleeding, unless you drink
his/her blood or rub an open wound on the blood you have nothing to
worry about.
>
> Whether or not they deserved to get the disease doesn't matter. Thye
> should realize that us folks who DON'T have AIDS aren't really looking
> to acquire it. And that can be easily accomplished by avoiding all
> people with AIDS.
>
That is definitely the most ignorant statement I've ever read. When
you show me your science degree from an accredited University, then
maybe I'll consider your argumentation (unlike me, who does have a
degree in biochemistry). You cannot "catch" AIDS unless there is an
exchange of blood, semen, vaginal secretion, or breast milk.
But it really doesn't matter what you think. It is against FEDERAL
LAW to discriminate against persons with HIV. Plain and simple.
Unless you are engaged in sexual intercourse with an infected person
(or sharing needles, for that matter), then you are NOT being exposed
to the virus. You do not have any legitimate legal or scientific
argument to make your point, other than your bigotry.
David H.--REMOVE STOPSPAM to reply
Kevin, Moschella is probabaly the most self-hating gay person who has ever
posted to RRC. Don't take anything he says personally. It's a shame that
he feels the need to attack anyone in here (gay or not) to build up his
sense of self worth to make his life tolerable. It's truly sad.
If you still want to watch Cirque's performers, but don't want to support
the companies, you can see most of their shows for free on Bravo regularly.
Or download the videos on your favorite file-sharing service.
It's interesting, though. When I posted on this subject, he stated that I
should get the facts. His "facts" turned out to come from anonymous posts
to a gay news site. So, when I actually DID get the rest of the facts, and
posted them here, he had nothing constructive to say, as usual, and
resorted to homophobic name-calling. So VERY typical.
And come on, guys, even I know better than to try to get into anything
resembling a rational discussion on HIV with Rastus. I loved Iain's
hysterically sarcastic comment about a person with HIV getting sucked into
the engine of a plane!
A whole lot of us have been to a lot of Cirque shows over the years. Just
a question: has anyone actually ever been spattered with blood? I know I
sure as hell haven't. I love this ridiculous hysterical notion that the
performers are just bleeding all over the place. If that were true, I
doubt that they'd have ever become the international sensations that
they've become, HIV fears or not. Yes, people pay to get spattered with
paint at Blue Man Group, but I suspect that spattering people with blood
wouldn't go over quite so well! ;-)
But all of this will come to a head in the next month. The NV Equal
Employment Opportunities Commission will be finishing up their
investigation shortly. And let's be honest here. Cirque doesn't have a
legal leg to stand on.
David H.--REMOVE STOPSPAM to reply
legal advice? I mean, really, what kind of idiot lawyer would tell a
company to tell the SAN FRANCISCO Human Rights Commission that there are
good jobs for people with HIV: dishwashers and ushers?!? Seriously, I'd
have thought that they were smarter than that. I mean, they have basically
just HANDED the victory to the other side, while opening themselves up to
nationwide challenges to their illegal hiring practices.
Perhaps it's just more of the arrogance that they are famous for. I
suspect that they just assume that they are so special that they can get
away with anything they want, regardless of the law. They've already been
cited for child labor law violations repeatedly.
Should we start a pool on how much they end up settling for? Then again,
they might just be arrogant enough to go against any sane legal advice and
take it to full court, expecting to win, and losing BIG.
I wonder how many other cities and states that they visit will investigate
the illegal hiring practices of the company when they travel. San
Francisco already is. I'm sure New York will. They're also coming to
Boston. While they are appearing outside the city, the state also has an
anti-descrimination law which covers disability and HIV status. They're
also in violation of Federal laws.
I'm sure their lawyers will be kept very busy. All because of irrational
ignorance that is dated by over a decade and is now generally only spewed
by ignorant people like Rastus.
Rastus O'Ginga
I don't know. But I do choose to not share needles, or have
unprotected sex with a group of humans known to have a very high
occurrence of AIDS.
To do otherwise would be beyond stupid, and quite honestly, deserving
to face the consequences. The gall these people have to think it's
their right to not tell anyone they have a deadly, incurable,
contagious disease is simply beyond comprehension.
To think there should be a law protecting such things is putting your
personal desires over that of Humanity. I doubt St. Peter has much
time for such folks.
Rastus O'Ginga
Sam Marks
>HIV
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!feed2.newsreader.com!news
reader.com!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!n
ewsfeed2.dallas1.level3.net!news.level3.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail
>From: ras...@kingwoodcable.net (Rastus O'Ginga)
>
>I don't know. But I do choose to not share needles, or have
>unprotected sex with a group of humans known to have a very high
>occurrence of AIDS.
That would be the people of Africa right?
kipross
"Rastus O'Ginga" <ras...@kingwoodcable.net> wrote in message
> Hey, good idea. I should make it a point to spend lots of time with
> folks with incurable, transmittable, deadly diseases that their own
> life choices caused them to contract.
Tell that to my childhood best friend who was a hemophiliac, received a
tainted blood-transfusion, and died of AIDS when he was fourteen years old.
-kipross
AirtimeJunkie
>Why is that? If I had an incurable fatal disease, I wouldn't go
>around acting like it's my right to put others at risk of catching it.
>
>
t-shirts that identify them as one who has AIDS?
Your obvious paranoia only confirms what people have thought all along. Please
educate yourself, buddy.
AirtimeJunkie
>let alone in any sort of physical situation.
>
>HIV+ people are treated like a disease BECAUSE THEY ARE A DISEASE!!!
>
>Whether or not they deserved to get the disease doesn't matter. Thye
>should realize that us folks who DON'T have AIDS aren't really looking
>to acquire it. And that can be easily accomplished by avoiding all
>people with AIDS.
>
You really are an ignorant person, aren't you? Did it ever cross your
shriveled up mind that people with AIDS are "people" and that they might have
something called feelings and compassion? How dare you to be so ignorant and
uncaring to make such statements. Your really are an idiot and I fee sorry for
people like you. You are such a disgrace to mankind.
Kevin Coley
AirtimeJunkie
>unprotected sex with a group of humans known to have a very high
>occurrence of AIDS.
So if someone is having sex with an HIV+ person, it means that they're having
unprotected sex? Wow, as a gay person, that's new to me.
Willards Whizzer
>
>Like, if you're in an
>airplane, what if the plane crashes, and someone with AIDS gets sucked into
>the engine, and they spray a huge AIDS blood cloud over an entire city?
>Maybe you should start wearing a mask.
LMAO. I'm only quoting a part of it, but this is a great post, Iain. The fact
that it's so ridiculous further drives home the nonsense of some of the
arguments going on here.
Thanks.
Jerry
"C'mon and take a Free Ride." -- Edgar Winter Group
SheppSF
bonus, it is easily passed from person to person through blood, and
possibly spit. >>
Spit, my Aunt Fanny. Can you cite a reliable source for that idiot factoid,
preferably one you don't receive through the fillings in your teeth?
<< HIV+ people are treated like a disease BECAUSE THEY ARE A DISEASE!!! >>
At long last, sir, have you lost all sense of decency?
(Well, um, yeah...)
Rastus O'Ginga
wrote:
Great example! That's why people with AIDS need to be identified and
have to let others know of their disease.
Rastus O'Ginga
<military...@hotmail.com> wrote:
...drivel...
So, you basically think AIDS is a fairly unimportant health issue, and
not really a threat to folks?
DeadAndRestless
>folks with incurable, transmittable, deadly diseases that their own
>life choices caused them to contract. I bet if I did that, the
>chances of a loved one getting it would even increase.
>
Yes, because there are lots of people who chose to take dirty blood at
hospitals following car accidents knowing full well what might just happen!
-
Alan