Mitch Hawker's Wood Coaster Poll Results

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Theme Park Review

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Dec 22, 2008, 3:53:09 PM12/22/08
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T-Express is the worlds new #1 woodie!

http://www.ushsho.com/woodrollercoasterpollresults2008.htm

Top ten wood:
1) T Express - Everland
2) The Voyage - Holiday World
3) El Toro - SFGAd
4) Boulder Dash - Lake Compounce
5) Balder - Liseberg
6) Phoenix - Knoebel's
7) Aska (S) - Nara Dreamland
8) Troy - Toverland
9) Ravine Flyer II - Waldameer
10) Colossos - Heide Park

Bottom ten wood:
167) Magnus Colossus - Terra Mitica
168) Rattler - Fiesta Texas
169) Coaster-Express - Parque Warner Madrid
170) Underground - Adventureland
171) Lil' Dipper - Camden Park
172) The Bandit - Movie Park
173) Predator - Darien Lake
174) Son of Beast - Kings Island
175) Anaconda - Walygator Parc
176) The Grizzly - Great America

I do think it really says something when 4 Intamin woodies are now in
the top ten worlds best wood coasters!

If you haven't seen T Express in action yet, have a look at our video:
http://www.themeparkreview.com/tprtv/play.php?vid=t_express_youtube_5

--Robb Alvey
www.themeparkreview.com

BaSSiStiSt

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Dec 22, 2008, 7:24:21 PM12/22/08
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"Theme Park Review" <robb...@themeparkreview.com> wrote in message
news:8bcf38c8-ee84-47b5...@e10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...

> T-Express is the worlds new #1 woodie!

Did it CRUSH The Voyage?

ace

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Dec 22, 2008, 8:11:51 PM12/22/08
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On Dec 22, 7:24 pm, "BaSSiStiSt" <dreadpirateb...@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> "Theme Park Review" <robbal...@themeparkreview.com> wrote in messagenews:8bcf38c8-ee84-47b5...@e10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...

>
> > T-Express is the worlds new #1 woodie!
>
> Did it CRUSH The Voyage?

Am I reading this right? 14 people rode T Express and it got number
1?
http://www.ushsho.com/woodrollercoasterpollresults2008.htm

If so, I bet TPR's Korea trip had major influence in its position.

GodsOnSafari

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Dec 22, 2008, 8:37:04 PM12/22/08
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On Dec 22, 8:11 pm, ace <tvdud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 22, 7:24 pm, "BaSSiStiSt" <dreadpirateb...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> > "Theme Park Review" <robbal...@themeparkreview.com> wrote in messagenews:8bcf38c8-ee84-47b5...@e10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > T-Express is the worlds new #1 woodie!
>
> > Did it CRUSH The Voyage?
>
> Am I reading this right?  14 people rode  T Express and it got number
> 1?http://www.ushsho.com/woodrollercoasterpollresults2008.htm

>
> If so, I bet TPR's Korea trip had major influence in its position.

Ya think? Say hello to the Tonnerre De Zeus of a new generation.

Wolf

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Dec 22, 2008, 9:14:51 PM12/22/08
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> T-Express is the worlds new #1 woodie!
>
> http://www.ushsho.com/woodrollercoasterpollresults2008.htm
>
> Top ten wood:
> 1) T Express - Everland
> 2) The Voyage - Holiday World
> 3) El Toro - SFGAd

I see we have a new TdZ. I expect it will drop precipitiously as soon as an
ACE trips goes over there and it gets torn apart, never to re-appear in the
top 20.

Of the 14 people to ride T Express, 8 of them had ridden Voyage and only 9
had ridden a steel coaster. Interesting demographic, that.

--
|\-/|
<0 0>
=(o)=
-Wolf


Wolf

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Dec 22, 2008, 9:15:24 PM12/22/08
to
> > > T-Express is the worlds new #1 woodie!
>
> > Did it CRUSH The Voyage?
>
> Am I reading this right? 14 people rode T Express and it got number
> 1?http://www.ushsho.com/woodrollercoasterpollresults2008.htm
>
> If so, I bet TPR's Korea trip had major influence in its position.

Ya think? Say hello to the Tonnerre De Zeus of a new generation.

-------------------------

Mitch's poll has always skewed towards less-ridden rides.

Bill Buckley

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Dec 22, 2008, 9:29:24 PM12/22/08
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"Theme Park Review" <robb...@themeparkreview.com> wrote:
> T-Express is the worlds new #1 woodie!

Does anyone else think it's ... I donno, "weird" (for lack of a better term)
that this crop of "T-Express is the worlds new #1 woodie!" posts came so
quickly from TPR, as if it served as some sort of thinly veiled marketing
ploy?

Hell, the server chips weren't even done paging memory and the WIki page for
The Voyage was already updated to reflect the fact that it's no longer the
#1 woodie.

I mean, not withstanding that Robb's no fan of HW. Just pure coincidence,
I'm sure.

(Things that make ya go Hmmmm.....)


> I do think it really says something when 4 Intamin woodies are now in
> the top ten worlds best wood coasters!

Says to me you're well coordinated in your internal efforts and
communication.


> If you haven't seen T Express in action yet, have a look at our video:
> http://www.themeparkreview.com/tprtv/play.php?vid=t_express_youtube_5

Honestly? Looks as dull as Balder is now (post slow-down). But the ECC is
doing a trip to Everland in 2009, so I'm sure there will be more opinions on
this ride for next year's poll.

-B


cana...@gmail.com

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Dec 22, 2008, 9:46:55 PM12/22/08
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On Dec 22, 9:29 pm, "Bill Buckley"
<w.buckl...@verizon.forgetaboutit.com> wrote:

I concur.

GodsOnSafari

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Dec 22, 2008, 10:20:45 PM12/22/08
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Helps when you can pick out the well connected names of who voted for
it too. TDZ arose because of a limited number of riders and conditions
that hindered it when larger groups started to visit. T-Express is a
pretty clear political pick assisted greatly by location.

Theme Park Review

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Dec 23, 2008, 1:21:17 AM12/23/08
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> Helps when you can pick out the well connected names of who voted for
> it too. TDZ arose because of a limited number of riders and conditions
> that hindered it when larger groups started to visit. T-Express is a
> pretty clear political pick assisted greatly by location.- Hide quoted text -

Really? I'm flattered that you would think that, but I feel you're
wrong. Let's take a look at the people who rode it:

Gavin Jones - No idea who this person is. Ranked it #1
Joey Mandel - TPR member on our tour who also works in the amusement
park biz and has quite a vast collection of coasters across the globe
under his belt. Ranked it #1
loefet - A swedish Balder fan with a new #1 Intamin woodie.
milst1 - Ranked Voyage #1, T-Express #10
Richard Harbison - No idea who this person is. Ranked T Express #1
Unknown voter - Ranked T-Express #4, RF2 - #1
George Greenway - TPR member, ECC Member, ACE Member. Was on our
China trip but not on our Korea trip. Ranked it #1
Nick McKay - Only been on 5 woodies and based on his list I can see
why T-Express would be his #1
Dave Lawrence - Ranked it #3 behind Voyage
Me - Ranked it #1 where I feel it should be. (Although had my El Toro
rides been a bit better this year Toro would have been my #1)
Rich E.- On the TPR trip and has a great collection of woodies. Ranked
it #1 and was probably the rides biggest fan on our trip.
Dave Thomas - Ranked T-Express #3. C'mon, Dave has been riding
coasters for YEARS!
Jeff Johnson - Ranked it #1. Same with Dave, Jeff has been around for
years, although a few centuries more than Dave. ;)
Elissa - Miss Intamin fan herself ranked it #3.

I fail to see how this was some political pick by TPR as you claim
when some of the key members of TPR didn't actually rank it #1! It
would seem to me that people who we are not associated with pushed it
over the top.

Mr, "I know everything" Bill Buckley Writes:
>Does anyone else think it's ... I donno, "weird" (for lack of a better term)
>that this crop of "T-Express is the worlds new #1 woodie!" posts came so
>quickly from TPR, as if it served as some sort of thinly veiled marketing
>ploy?

LMAO at you Bill! Are you kidding? I saw the post come up on TPR (It
wasn't even me who posted it), I browsed RRC and saw the news hadn't
been posted and I copy/pasted basically what someone else posted to
TPR to RRC. The words in my initial post mostly not even mine! (Don't
worry Ginzo didn't mind me re-posting the text)

>Hell, the server chips weren't even done paging memory and the WIki page for
>The Voyage was already updated to reflect the fact that it's no longer the
>#1 woodie.

The amount of effort you are going to make this look like something
else is laughable. If you are implying that *I* changed the Wiki Page
well I have not ever looked at it, so please go witch hunt someone
else.

>I mean, not withstanding that Robb's no fan of HW. Just pure coincidence, I'm sure.

Um, WHAT??!!? We like HW just fine! We held an event with them just
last year! I'm actually quite a big fan of that park. While I might
not be a huge Voyage fan, I happen to think HW is one of the nicest
parks in the country and even still we support Voyage quite a lot! Do
a Google or YouTube search for "Holiday World Voyage Video" and we're
the first video link to come up behind the parks website. We've
featured Voyage and Raven on two of our RAW DVDs and we will continue
to work with the park on other future projects. Your assessment is
wrong, Buck and I don't appreciate your poor attempt and trying to
create drama.

I will be very interested to see how T-Express ranks next year and the
year after, etc, etc.... I welcome as many people as possible to go
ride it and I hope more people get the chance. It was very close for
me and had Toro been running this year like it was for us last year,
Toro would have gotten my #1 vote. T Express just slightly edged it
out. I don't feel myself or anyone else I'm affiliated had any
additional influence over it's ranking more than the next person who
happened to ride it this year. The fact that some of you may think
that's the case is just absurd, but then again RRC really seems to get
off on blaming Robb Alvey for stuff so it's par for the course. ;)

--Robb "Next think you know I'll be blamed for Eagle's Fortress and
Kawasemi in the steel poll!" Alvey
www.themeparkreview.com

ps. As far as TdZ is concerned I had kick ass rides on it this year
that caused me to rank it #9. I feel the main reason why it has such
poor rankings is because it ran so badly for ACE's 2002 trip and not
many people from that trip have been back since. Even I ranked it
very low that year and the following years until 2005 where it ran
GREAT and in 2008 when it ran even better! IMO, this year TdZ was
back to where it was in 1999.

GodsOnSafari

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Dec 23, 2008, 7:04:21 AM12/23/08
to

> Really?  I'm flattered that you would think that, but I feel you're
> wrong.  Let's take a look at the people who rode it:

I already did. If you, Elissa, Jeff, and Dave voted it better than
Voyage (regardless of placement on the list), it's pretty close to a
guarantee that we've got a new #1.

Keith Hopkins

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Dec 23, 2008, 10:55:21 AM12/23/08
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"Bill Buckley" <w.buc...@verizon.forgetaboutit.com> wrote in message
news:82Y3l.665$Es4...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...

> "Theme Park Review" <robb...@themeparkreview.com> wrote:
>> T-Express is the worlds new #1 woodie!
>
> Does anyone else think it's ... I donno, "weird" (for lack of a
> better term)
> that this crop of "T-Express is the worlds new #1 woodie!" posts
> came so
> quickly from TPR, as if it served as some sort of thinly veiled
> marketing
> ploy?


Controversy and conspiracy theories! Sweet!

On a tangent, how hard would it be to game the poll? Does Mitch use
any kind of policing method to prevent sock-puppetry? I don't
participate in the poll, because my riding days are done. But if I
wanted to submit multiple polls, is there anything that might flag my
submissions?

--
Keith Hopkins
suss...@sssssssssgmail.ssssssssscom
[clear up the hissing to email]
"Excuse me, sir, but you appear to be sitting
on my gown. Would you be so kind as to move?"
Mark McKenzie


Theme Park Review

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Dec 23, 2008, 11:08:06 AM12/23/08
to

LMAO! So I take away two things from your statement -

1. We are not allowed to vote another coaster over The Voyage sayz
you.

2. Elissa, Jeff, Dave, and I determine the outcome of Mitch's poll.

Do you see how totally absurd this sounds??!?!

Robb Alvey fact: I like all the Intamin woodies over The
Voyage...that's is my OPINION, and I know that opinions are not
normally welcomed here on RRC, but I have one so deal with it.

--Robb Alvey
www.themeparkreview.com

Rastus O'Ginga

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Dec 23, 2008, 11:44:58 AM12/23/08
to
On Dec 22, 7:11 pm, ace <tvdud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 22, 7:24 pm, "BaSSiStiSt" <dreadpirateb...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> > "Theme Park Review" <robbal...@themeparkreview.com> wrote in messagenews:8bcf38c8-ee84-47b5...@e10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > T-Express is the worlds new #1 woodie!
>
> > Did it CRUSH The Voyage?
>
> Am I reading this right?  14 people rode  T Express and it got number
> 1?http://www.ushsho.com/woodrollercoasterpollresults2008.htm

>
> If so, I bet TPR's Korea trip had major influence in its position.

Well, if I would have got off my ass and voted, my ballot wouldn't
have had T-Express and Voyage at the top. I wonder if I could have
impacted the results. T-Express is an awesome beginning, and then a
very boring end. A few big hills after the brakes and it would be the
greatest by a mile. Elissa seems to have come to my opinion on the
ride, so I doubt she had it at the top. I haven't really thought
about my top ten seriously, but Kentucky Rumbler would be up near the
top. And Raven is still awesome.

-R

GodsOnSafari

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Dec 23, 2008, 11:58:55 AM12/23/08
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On Dec 23, 11:08 am, Theme Park Review <robbal...@themeparkreview.com>
wrote:

> On Dec 23, 4:04 am, GodsOnSafari <GodsOnSaf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Really?  I'm flattered that you would think that, but I feel you're
> > > wrong.  Let's take a look at the people who rode it:
>
> > I already did. If you, Elissa, Jeff, and Dave voted it better than
> > Voyage (regardless of placement on the list), it's pretty close to a
> > guarantee that we've got a new #1.
>
> LMAO!  So I take away two things from your statement -
>
> 1. We are not allowed to vote another coaster over The Voyage sayz
> you.
>
> 2. Elissa, Jeff, Dave, and I determine the outcome of Mitch's poll.
>
> Do you see how totally absurd this sounds??!?!

You're certainly allowed to vote for whatever coaster you'd like, and
yes, we know, you heart Holiday World *now*. That said, the second
part? Pretty much true. You four made up half the voting block of it
in the head to head against Voyage.

> Robb Alvey fact: I like all the Intamin woodies over The
> Voyage...that's is my OPINION, and I know that opinions are not
> normally welcomed here on RRC, but I have one so deal with it.

Robb Alvey as free speech advocate? LOL.

Tom Henderson

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Dec 23, 2008, 12:08:21 PM12/23/08
to
> Controversy and conspiracy theories! Sweet!
>
> On a tangent, how hard would it be to game the poll? Does Mitch use any
> kind of policing method to prevent sock-puppetry? I don't participate in
> the poll, because my riding days are done. But if I wanted to submit
> multiple polls, is there anything that might flag my submissions?
>

That's what I was wondering? I mean, if you make up some fictitious name,
fictitious location, get a junk email address from Y*hoo, H*tmail, etc. and
then submit an additional ballot from that address, who's to know? Unless
the IP address shows on two different names as being from the same computer,
and IP addresses are being monitored and cross checked. But, use a
friend's computer or one at work, or get someone else to submit a ballot for
you, and that goes out the window.

We see that it only took 14 ballots (out of 600+ submissions) needed to
declare "the best!". If someone figured that out it certainly wouldn't take
that much effort if that person wanted to put a lesser ridden coaster at the
top, or to knock one out of the #1 spot. If someone REALLY wanted to have
that effect on the results?

-Tom


Rastus O'Ginga

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Dec 23, 2008, 12:08:36 PM12/23/08
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On Dec 22, 8:29 pm, "Bill Buckley"
<w.buckl...@verizon.forgetaboutit.com> wrote:

Gee, Buck, you'd be the first to say someone else throwing out
consipiracy theories was a total moron.

Elissa isn't a huge fan of T-Express, but Robb does seem to be.
Honestly, the section before the brake is absolutely brilliant, and
without a doubt the best 30 seconds of a wood coaster anywhere. The
rest is a series of slow turns and near-painful small hills.

So, are you just jeolous of Robb? I mean, really, TPR has totally
usurped ACE as an influence on coasters. You used to hate ACE, now
you don't anymore for whatever reason. Robb should ask Richard Munch
to become TPR's historical expert, now that Mr. Subterfuge saw it
prudent to oust a founder from that position.

I used to rag on Robb's site, when everyone loved it at the beginning,
I'll be honest. But I sure don't anymore. I'm sure he's more
connected than you are, and you're probably green with envy. His
monthly server fees are huge. He can go to damn near any park in the
world and be treated like a celebrity. He gives great publicity to
parks, he doesn't just publish pictures of him and Elissa sitting in a
coaster train in the station with forced smiles on their faces.

I'd love to go on one of his trips, like next year's Scandanavia one.
But, they're too long, and they spend too much on hotel rooms, imho.
But they sure are better trips than ACE ones.

Just realize that you are simply an ex ACE ECer who likes to name
drop. Robb is probably the most influential coaster fan on the
planet. You're just a bitter queen in NJ.

Merry Christmas!

-RO

Rastus O'Ginga

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Dec 23, 2008, 12:20:37 PM12/23/08
to
On Dec 23, 11:08 am, "Tom Henderson" <grayz...@yahoo.DELETE.com>
wrote:

You could absolutely do that. You could have made the coaster at
Korean Folk Village #1 with just a few fake ballots. I think Mitch
would catch that. Robb listed all the T-Express/Voyage voters. There
were like 2 unknown ones.

-RO

GodsOnSafari

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Dec 23, 2008, 12:42:51 PM12/23/08
to
On Dec 23, 12:08 pm, "Tom Henderson" <grayz...@yahoo.DELETE.com>
wrote:

Anyone who isn't "well known" probably wouldn't get counted in that
instance, with the logic being that the coaster enthusiasts most
likely to have been are people who are extremely well traveled and
well known to the community as a result.

christoph...@navy.mil

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Dec 23, 2008, 12:49:42 PM12/23/08
to
> Robb Alvey as free speech advocate? LOL.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Tell me about it.
In the end, after the things I did with TPR, (and even a little bit
for TPR) and after defending Robb to numerous people bashing him to
me, after all the things he's supposedly told people about me, he
banned me from his site because I disagreed with him about one stupid
thing.

I agree that the poll was used as a means to generate publicity for
TPR trips. Enough people OUTSIDE TPR know enough about Robb and his
amazing history, to stay far, far away. It's the kids that I feel bad
for, and I'm not just talking about the TPR teen crowd.

OBTW, Robb, I've been banned for over a year now, are you EVER going
to stop sending me spam and/or delete my account? I mean, you've been
telling people that I can't go on any trip that you are even vaguely
associated with, so why send me the flyers?

Sad to see people try to skew Mitch's Poll year after year. It's no
wonder he wants to stop doing it.

Chris

GodsOnSafari

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Dec 23, 2008, 12:56:33 PM12/23/08
to
> I agree that the poll was used as a means to generate publicity for
> TPR trips. Enough people OUTSIDE TPR know enough about Robb and his
> amazing history, to stay far, far away. It's the kids that I feel bad
> for, and I'm not just talking about the TPR teen crowd.

Epic lulz.

Adam Revesz

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Dec 23, 2008, 1:23:52 PM12/23/08
to
On Dec 23, 12:08 pm, "Rastus O'Ginga" <rast...@kingwoodcable.net>
wrote:

> On Dec 22, 8:29 pm, "Bill Buckley"

> Just realize that you are simply an ex ACE ECer who likes to name


> drop.  Robb is probably the most influential coaster fan on the
> planet.  You're just a bitter queen in NJ.
>
> Merry Christmas!
>

> -RO- Hide quoted text -


>
> - Show quoted text -

Wait! Buck moved to NJ?? Since when? Hey Buck, c'mon over for a cup of
coffee. We'll discuss this madness! :)

Live to Ride,
Adam Revesz

BaSSiStiSt

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Dec 23, 2008, 1:26:22 PM12/23/08
to
"Theme Park Review" <robb...@themeparkreview.com> wrote in message
news:00176bbe-b270-4740...@v38g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

> The fact that some of you may think that's the case is just absurd, but
> then again RRC really seems to get
> off on blaming Robb Alvey for stuff so it's par for the course. ;)

Honestly, Robb, you don't come up that much in here anymore, usually only in
reaction to your posting TPR spam or when you find find some data that
validates your opinions.

I don't know why the odd, homely little collection of 30-40 geeks left over
on RRC remains your personal bete noire, but perhaps it's time to get over
it? You got raked over the coals on here years ago, true enough, and did
plenty of raking on your own, but you're acting (in this thread) like it's
still 2002. You own the most popular site for coasters, have the most
traffic, and pretty much own the internet when it comes to coasters. For all
intents and purposes, you've won, in every conceivable way. Why not just let
poor little RRC go off and die in peace?


nashv...@aol.com

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Dec 23, 2008, 1:30:36 PM12/23/08
to
On Dec 23, 11:08 am, "Tom Henderson" <grayz...@yahoo.DELETE.com>
wrote:
> *snip*

> We see that it only took 14 ballots (out of 600+ submissions) needed to
> declare "the best!".  If someone figured that out it certainly wouldn't take
> that much effort if that person wanted to put a lesser ridden coaster at the
> top, or to knock one out of the #1 spot.  If someone REALLY wanted to have
> that effect on the results?
>
> -Tom

Bingo.

Every poll has strengths and weaknesses. A poll like Amusement Today
doesn't accurately represent the quality of a coaster that is far away
and less travelled although potentially quite excellent, and on the
other side of the divide Mitches poll, which can give a lesser known
out of the way coaster that is quite good it's due, is absolutely open
to manipulation, and I wouldn't be shocked at all if some attempts at
manipulating it have occurred through the years. Such is the nature of
the beast. Since we know this can happen, it's pretty obvious that a
situation where a smaller group of people who rates a coaster fairly
highly relative to a more well travelled (and also highly rated
coaster) can skew the results.... and one could easily argue that
similar things happened, when, say, Tremors came onto the scene and a
smaller group of folks who travelled to a remote part of the US rode
it, liked it a lot, and it went up in the rankings. The way Mitches
poll is structured, that's bound to happen from time to time.

My thoughts:

a) Over time, these things even out and the hard-to-travel-to pick
will likely fall into it's zone over time once more folks get to it -
now, given this coaster is in Korea, this may take a while, but over
time, things seem to even out. Mitches poll when viewed on an
individual year basis can be inaccurate since it can be so easily
skewed, but over time I do think it provides a pretty accurate view in
terms of which coasters are highly regarded overall.

b) Looking at the numbers, I think, since we the reader/viewer of the
poll know it can be skewed, we can simply look and go "okay, coaster
ZZZ had a very small number of riders and it ended up #1 (or whatever)
but coasters BBB and AAA had quite a few riders and ranked quite high
over the years of the poll" and from that we can kind of get an idea
of what really might be the case once things even out. In my eyes I
see the two schools of thought - the Intamin Hybrid vs the CCI/Gravity
group both have a lot of supporters, and thus from a non-emotional
standpoint, it's pretty obvious that enthusiasts like em both - no
matter what any single persons opinion is of them.

c) Why do people get so bent out of shape over which coaster is #1
anyway?
The only really useful reason for a poll that I can see is to guide
your travel plans should you not be able to afford to travel
everywhere. And even these days, with the internet and so much
information and opinion out there even this reason is diminished. 20
years ago a top ten list of an experienced rider meant a lot more than
it does today, because that gave you information you desired to form
your travel plans that wasn't available anywhere else. These days,
that info can come from a variety of sources - IMO the most helpful
are written Trip Reports from folks who have similar tastes (photo
TR's are about as useless as can be for this task, but that's just
me). So why do we even get into the arguments? In some ways it's
becoming a bigger-dick contest, the same as track record counts have
become.

d) Should Mitch try and prevent skewing? Sure - but how? At what point
do you filter out a lesser ridden ride? I've always wondered about
factoring in, somehow, the magnitude of quality differences between
rides (for me rides like Voyage/Hades/Ravine Flyer II are all quite
excellent, and light years ahead of something I might have ranked even
as high as #15, so how about factoring in the difference in perceived
quality between rides?). One could go on and on. Mitches poll ain't
perfect, but over time I still think it produces the best *overall*
snapshot of what enthusiasts think. Who is #1 on the poll is likely to
change, and I'm not sure it really means that much. Just because an
Intamin is #1 doesn't mean that someone like myself, who does not like
steel coasters and prefers traditional aggressive woodies is suddenly
going to change opinion any more than an Intamin hybrid fan is going
to change their opinion because Voyage got #1 or whatever. And I could
open up a huge can of worms with my opinion that enthusiast opinions
aren't remotely close to general public opinions and thus the whole
poll might not be relevant to the casual park visitor, but that's a
different subject.

Overall, it's just a poll. Factor out the lesser ridden coasters and
possible skewing, and the tastes are laid out about the same as they
were the last year.


Theme Park Review

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 2:07:33 PM12/23/08
to
> Chris- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Chris,

When are you going to take personal responsibility for what you were
really banned from TPR and our tours for? If you want to discuss
these things, please do it with me personally. However I know you
won't do that because you and I both know the reasons why were were
banned are not what you wrote. There have been a total about 4 people
banned from TPR tours out of nearly 500 or so we've had go on trips
now. We don't go banning people for no reasons at all. You know what
you did, but you don't want to take blame for it. Instead you just
want to blame myself and TPR and tell everyone else a very different
story.

Keep doing it. Maybe someday someone will buy your story. TPR
doesn't.

--Robb

Theme Park Review

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 2:21:09 PM12/23/08
to
> you're acting (in this thread) like it's still 2002.
Says the guy I haven't spoken to since at least then but seemed like
he couldn't wait to give me shit for posting to RRC. *rolls eyes*
What was the point of you responding anyway? There wasn't any. You
just wanted to add to the drama.

It's all the same here and no, not much has changed since 2002. Which
is why I choose to not be active on this forum other than posting my
TPR "spam" which I'm willing to bet most of you read but would never
admit to.

--Robb Alvey
www.themeparkreview.com

Andrew Brawley

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 2:29:07 PM12/23/08
to
I think I hear the sound of someone grinding their ax to the fine edge
needed to slice sour grapes. I'm just having a hard time figuring out who's
doing all that damned grinding.

Seasons Greetings.

-Drew

christoph...@navy.mil

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 2:44:07 PM12/23/08
to
On Dec 23, 1:07 pm, Theme Park Review <robbal...@themeparkreview.com>
> --Robb- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, Robb. Nice to actually get a reply from you.

Since I found out that I had been banned from TPR trips from people on
the Spain trip, and not from yourself, let's start there.

You told people that I tried to climb or asked to climb the lift hill
of Pepsi Max Big One at Blackpool, or something to that effect.

Both of us know that isn't the truth. I was taking pictures and video
of that coaster, and a park employee OFFERED me the opportunity to go
to the closed monorail station for the best angle.

You even came over there with me! I never asked for it, but the people
at the park were super nice and suggested it to me.

I tried for months to get a reply from you about trips the next year,
but you never replied. Until they were full. I tried to get
explanations from you as to why I was being treated so shabbily, and
your only response was that I needed a thicker skin.

In the end, you banned me from the site because I was right about
Maverick's inspiration/design, (Which I never claimed that I was
certain of, only that I'd heard it from someone else.) and you and
others made fun of me for it for ages. When you decided that it was
probably true, (and you even made it front page on the site) and I
made a comment that it was sad that those who had originally suggested
it were treated shabbily, you deleted my post and banned me.

So, at what point will you ever feel it appropriate to tell me the
truth of why you banned me from the trips and/or the site?

After you try to bash me at every other website? Oh but never
publiclly, you just tell the site owners what a horrible person I am.
Never to me personally, either.

Before you go about slamming people you don't like, consider your own
life and the things you've done and the people you've spurned.

Because in the end, I never wronged you. I tried to work things out
offline, but you chose to insult me instead.

In real life, my concience is clean.

If yours is, then you need more help than I can give you,

Robb. I really did like you once. Then I learned how you treat
actually people.

So that's my 'story'. What's yours, because I'd really like to hear
your side of it. But yeah, let's keep it public.

Theme Park Review

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 2:54:32 PM12/23/08
to
In an effort to put this thread back on track, since I started it to
begin with and I haven't seen it posted here yet, here is the results
of the Steel Poll:

http://www.ushsho.com/woodrollercoasterpollresults2008.htm

1) Superman - Ride of Steel - Six Flags New England
2) Eagle's Fortress - Everland
3) Expedition GeForce - Holiday Park
*) Kawasemi - Tobu Zoo
5) Piraten - Djurs Sommerland
6) Nemesis - Alton Towers
7) Behemoth - Canadas Wonderland
8) Goliath - Walibi World
9) Katun - Mirabilandia
10) Dragon Khan - Port Aventura
11) Pyrenees - Parque EspaNa
12) Millennium Force - Cedar Point
*) Atlantis Adventure - Lotte World
14) Goliath - Six Flags Over Georgia
15) Maverick - Cedar Point
16) Nitro - Six Flags Great Adventure
17) SheiKra - Busch Gardens Africa
18) Montu - Busch Gardens Africa
19) Ride of Steel - Darien Lake
20) Apollo's Chariot - Busch Gardens Europe

And dead last:
358) Goudurix - Parc Asterix

Goudurix retains its spot at the bottom. (where it should be!)

If you haven't seen or been on Eagle's Fortress, the ride is
absoultely amazing! Here is the footage we shot of the ride:
http://www.themeparkreview.com/videos/eaglefortress.zip

IMO, Everland has the best one-two punch of wood-steel over any other
park in the world! Now they just need to get rid of that horrible
"Rolling X Train" and get one more decent coaster and I think we'll be
visiting Korea every year! Between Lotte World and Everland, Seoul is
challenging other parts of the world for "best coasters and best
parks" overall.

We did our first trip to S. Korea in 2007 thinking it would be a
"credit run" trip, and we liked the parks so much that we returned in
2008. Granted T Express did help seal that decision, but those two
parks are fantastic! I highly reccomend them to everyone.

For anyone who is thinking about the ECC Korea Trip, have a look at
our S. Korea article and you'll see it's well worth the visit:
http://www.themeparkreview.com/parks/photo.php?pageid=400&linkid=3570

And one more last plug. Atlantis Adventure is another coaster that
everyone needs to ride! Such an amazing coaster for such a compact
space. Here is the video we produced:
http://www.themeparkreview.com/tprtv/play.php?vid=atlantis2008_640

So here you all go. I'm not here to offer drama or debate conspiracy
theories. I'm here to share information, photos, and videos about
roller coasters across the globe. I would hope that's what you all
want as well because that's what this forum should be all about.

Thanks for reading!

--Robb Alvey
www.themeparkreview.com

Theme Park Review

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 2:57:13 PM12/23/08
to
Oops, sorry, wrong link to the Steel Poll:
http://www.ushsho.com/steelrollercoasterpollresults2008.htm

GodsOnSafari

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 3:14:06 PM12/23/08
to
> What's yours, because I'd really like to hear
> your side of it. But yeah, let's keep it public.- Hide quoted text -


Based on past history, here are the expected responses:

A) IP ban, silence (extremely likely, really funny if he starts
banning providers)

B) You're lying, followed by argument to authority based on being a
dude who runs a coaster site, followed by the shouts of a few 17 year
olds guided over here (significantly less likely, though possible)

C) A more fantastic version of reality (not very likely, still in the
realm of possibility)

Mike's pretty OTM. Robb's undoubtedly reached his goal of building a
major base of enthusiasts that go with him as opposed to ACE and
represent, well, whatever it is he likes at that time. And yet he is
still compelled to return to RRC on occasion to spam in the guise of
"sharing opinions" to all 20 or so people reading.

Its funny, because I've often been reflecting about this hobby, how
surreal it all is, and how I've been involved in it in some form for a
decade, and this thread comes along to just throw about a hundred more
question marks at me. Now that RRC is basically a place where Mark
Rozenweig, Mike Saunders, and I post TRs on rare occasion (along with
baiting Rastus and laughing at NoGodForMe's ban), its probably better
than it has been in a long time. I guess everyone is happy with that
outcome (unless Robb's personal vendettas against you don't let you
into West Coast Bash).

Wolf

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 5:58:56 PM12/23/08
to
> If so, I bet TPR's Korea trip had major influence in its position.

Well, if I would have got off my ass and voted, my ballot wouldn't
have had T-Express and Voyage at the top. I wonder if I could have
impacted the results. T-Express is an awesome beginning, and then a
very boring end. A few big hills after the brakes and it would be the
greatest by a mile. Elissa seems to have come to my opinion on the
ride, so I doubt she had it at the top. I haven't really thought
about my top ten seriously, but Kentucky Rumbler would be up near the
top. And Raven is still awesome.

-R

---------------------------

If you had Ravine Flyer on top of T-Express, then yes, it would have altered
the polls somewhat. Not enough to change the #1, but it would no longer be
unanimous.

Wolf

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 6:03:55 PM12/23/08
to
> > Really? I'm flattered that you would think that, but I feel you're
> > wrong. Let's take a look at the people who rode it:
>
> I already did. If you, Elissa, Jeff, and Dave voted it better than
> Voyage (regardless of placement on the list), it's pretty close to a
> guarantee that we've got a new #1.

LMAO! So I take away two things from your statement -

1. We are not allowed to vote another coaster over The Voyage sayz
you.

2. Elissa, Jeff, Dave, and I determine the outcome of Mitch's poll.

Do you see how totally absurd this sounds??!?!

Robb Alvey fact: I like all the Intamin woodies over The
Voyage...that's is my OPINION, and I know that opinions are not
normally welcomed here on RRC, but I have one so deal with it.


--------------------------------

It's not absurd.

T-E beat Voyage 6-3. That means only 9 people rode both, which determined
the head-to-head. Elissa, Jeff, Dave, and you would have counted for four
votes. If you all went T-E over Voyage, that means Voyage would have had to
sweep the remaining 5 ballots to win. Just one loss gives T-E the nod. Had
the four of you gone Voyage over T-E, Voyage would have been #1.

So yes, you four did decide the top of the ballot.

Wolf

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 6:17:44 PM12/23/08
to

"Theme Park Review" <robb...@themeparkreview.com> wrote in message
news:b61ea737-924d-4f97...@q30g2000prq.googlegroups.com...

I see a similar effect is going on in the steel poll, where there are four
sub-20 rider coasters in the top 10, all in Korea or Japan. Interesting to
see whether those coasters have the same problem with staying power as the
less-riddem woodies have had, where a monoculture of opinions keep them high
for a couple of years, and they then plummet after a more diverse set of
opinions gets to them, and you get some anticipointment going on.

We really need more regulars from Japan.

Who ever thought a 16 year old Arrow suspended would be fighting for the top
of the steel coaster list?

Theme Park Review

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 6:25:20 PM12/23/08
to
On Dec 23, 3:03 pm, "Wolf" <bill.buss...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's not absurd.
>
> T-E beat Voyage 6-3. That means only 9 people rode both, which determined
> the head-to-head. Elissa, Jeff, Dave, and you would have counted for four
> votes. If you all went T-E over Voyage, that means Voyage would have had to
> sweep the remaining 5 ballots to win. Just one loss gives T-E the nod. Had
> the four of you gone Voyage over T-E, Voyage would have been #1.
>
> So yes, you four did decide the top of the ballot.

T Express was open to anyone who wanted to ride it and rank it. The
fact that 4 of us went out and rode it and felt it was better than
Voyage doesn't mean we ranked it above Voyage on purpose. I'm pretty
sure the 4 of us last year also had other coasters above Voyage so
this was nothing new this year. What I felt was "absurd" was that
anyone would think we would do that ON PURPOSE. I had no idea how
many people went to ride T Express this year and I'm actually shocked
it only got 14 riders in the poll. And I'm equally as shocked that it
got #1. I honestly didn't think it would rank that highly because
even our group was split between that, Balder, and El Toro. Once
again, not everyone in our group ranked it #1, we just all happen to
rank it over The Voyage. (Along with many other coasters but it seems
that people only care of The Voyage for some bizarre reason.)

It just seems that we are getting ridiculed because of our travel.
Sorry, but we happen to travel a lot and we focus on rides we think
are worth traveling to. This year it was Intamin's T Express, next
year it will be Gravity Group's Fireball. If you don't like the way
we rank something, go ride those coasters yourself! We really do
encourage everyone to 'get out there' and ride! Why do you think we
started doing our TPR tours? So many people wanted to know "How can I
travel like you guys do?" and so we started taking people with us.

We had Balder as #1 for many years and people said the same thing "Oh,
just wait until more people ride it and then you'll see how it REALLY
sucks!" but hey, Balder is still at #5 in the world so it must be
doing something right and other people obviously find it as good as we
do. And even when we took a group to Liseberg, not everyone liked it
like we did, but that didn't matter, it still did really great in the
poll and I'm sure everyone enjoyed our 3 hours of ERT on it with only
46 people! =)

I somehow get the feeling that it all of a sudden a group of 15 of us
came back and ranked TGG's Fireball as #1 we wouldn't get as much heat
as the Intamin woodie. There does seem to be some animosity amoungst
the "woodie purists" that Intamin woodies shouldn't even count as wood
coasters and I find that absurd.

IMO Intamin makes the best wooden coasters in the world and only a few
others (Phoenix, Ravine Flyer II, Raven, Boulder Dash, Tonerre De
Zeus) even came close in 2008. And when you have 4 of the top 10
coasters in the world, they must be doing something right, regardless
of what the purists may think.

--Robb Alvey
www.themeparkreview.com

BaSSiStiSt

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 6:43:31 PM12/23/08
to

"Theme Park Review" <robb...@themeparkreview.com> wrote in message
news:65cfa4ff-b8e9-4410...@x14g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

> It's all the same here and no, not much has changed since 2002. Which
> is why I choose to not be active on this forum other than posting my
> TPR "spam" which I'm willing to bet most of you read but would never
> admit to.

If you choose not to be active, then don't post here. If you're going to
post "spam", then more power to you, but don't expect to be treated like
anything more than a spammer.

And, my original point, hardly anyone talks about you here anymore unless
YOU post something...seems like you have the means in your own hands to stop
all the "RRC is saying bad things about me" issues.

And, to be fair, I shoulda picked on Buck too for importing drama where
none's needed...so, knock it off, Buck! ;-) Altho Buck gets more of a pass,
because he's a living, breathing member of this community, and not an
advertiser.

My two cents, I'm done, flame/spam on...

Theme Park Review

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 6:47:23 PM12/23/08
to
On Dec 23, 3:17 pm, "Wolf" <bill.buss...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I see a similar effect is going on in the steel poll, where there are four
> sub-20 rider coasters in the top 10, all in Korea or Japan. Interesting to
> see whether those coasters have the same problem with staying power as the
> less-riddem woodies have had, where a monoculture of opinions keep them high
> for a couple of years, and they then plummet after a more diverse set of
> opinions gets to them, and you get some anticipointment going on.
Like I said in my last post....get out there and ride! Why aren't
more people going to ride these highly ranked coasters? Oddly enough
Piraten came in just below Kawasemi and as far as I know, nobody from
TPR made it out to Piraten this year. I really think that anyone who
goes to ride one of these Intamin Mega-lites will come away going
"Holy shit! How did they pack SROS into that little space???"
Seriously that ride blew us away!

And I disagree with the "lack of staying power" when you look at the
rankings of coasters like Balder, Troy, Aska - all of which were in
your sub-20 rider category at one point, but still have staying power
today. Same can be said about Steelies like Expedition GeForce,
Goliath, Dragon Khan, etc. At one point they were ranked very high
with very few riders and as more people went to ride them they came
away going "These really ARE some of the best roller coasters in the
world!"

And what about Katun and Pyrenees? They both were ranked above highly
respected US based steel coasters and no one seems to be doubting
those rankings.

> We really need more regulars from Japan.

So wait, all those 200 people who went on the ECC Japan trip and
ranked Aska in their top 10 don't count? Every stop to think that
maybe...JUST MAYBE the people who are ranking some of those coasters
highly are doing it because they are actually GOOD RIDES? There is NO
WAY I'm going to rank something high that I don't honestly believe
deserves a top ten ranking!

> Who ever thought a 16 year old Arrow suspended would be fighting for the top
> of the steel coaster list?

Exactly! If you would have told me "You're going to go to Korea and
that Arrow Suspended will crack your top ten" I would have told you
your crazy!

I don't think our opinions or the opinions of other TPR travelers
should be discounted. We just happen to visit more parks then most
other people so of course we're going to have a wider variety of
coasters in our top spots.

GET OUT THERE AND RIDE! And maybe you'll see for yourself.

--Robb

Richard Bannister

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 7:01:16 PM12/23/08
to
I should have voted. I didn't get round to it.

But for the record, I prefer Voyage to T-Express, though I'd
definitely put T-E in my top ten.

Eagle Fortress is my number one steel, followed closely by Anaconda in
Gold Reef City - with Djurs' Piraten in third place.

Maybe next year I'll actually get round to sending in the full poll!

christoph...@navy.mil

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 7:38:01 PM12/23/08
to
On Dec 23, 6:01 pm, Richard Bannister <richard.bannis...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Richard!
You and George are my heroes. Maybe someday I'll actually cross your
path.

/topic
I've enjoyed helping Mitch with the polls the past few years, I see
that his system works, although it could probably stand a couple
tweaks. T-Express and Eagle's Fortress are likely outstanding rides in
their own right, but it's the perception that the polls have been
skewed that is the problem.

Despite all my disagreements with Robb, (which I really don't
understand how I got on his bad side) I'm not 100% sure that there was
any collusion on the actual ballots. I reviewed each and every single
one of them, before the results were posted, and I discussed my
findings and beliefs with Mitch before he ran the data. As the
sampling group becomes larger, (641 steel ballots!) the rule do need
to be modified slightly. This started last year when Mitch upped the
minimum number of riders required for consideration for the first time
ever. This year, he upped it again, and set it as a percentage 1% or
2% I believe.

The desire of this poll, is to NOT become another Golden Tickets,
where highly visited parks can run away with all the awards simply
through volume of votes. There is a balance point, and this year, 'we'
might have missed it. Maybe not.

As more people get out to these 'exotic' destinations, things will
have a way of working out.

Chris

PS: As for our issues, Robb? You stop telling lies about me, and I
won't talk about you at all.

GodsOnSafari

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 7:56:30 PM12/23/08
to
On Dec 23, 6:47 pm, Theme Park Review <robbal...@themeparkreview.com>
wrote:

> On Dec 23, 3:17 pm, "Wolf" <bill.buss...@gmail.com> wrote:> I see a similar effect is going on in the steel poll, where there are four
> > sub-20 rider coasters in the top 10, all in Korea or Japan. Interesting to
> > see whether those coasters have the same problem with staying power as the
> > less-riddem woodies have had, where a monoculture of opinions keep them high
> > for a couple of years, and they then plummet after a more diverse set of
> > opinions gets to them, and you get some anticipointment going on.
>
> Like I said in my last post....get out there and ride!  Why aren't
> more people going to ride these highly ranked coasters?  

Well, for one, no one pays for my opinions about parks, which I'm
actually pretty okay with (because I'd violently hate them by now if
it was my job). As a result, a coaster from a style that historically
doesn't do much for me probably isn't gonna inspire the wish to spend
thousands of dollars (which is what it costs to go to Korea, unless
you do so for Army) to go ride it. I'd rather spend that money getting
my skydive license, starting a record label, etc. than to "get out and
ride" for the purpose of voting in a poll I'm not compensated for.

Rastus O'Ginga

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 9:41:20 PM12/23/08
to
On Dec 23, 5:17 pm, "Wolf" <bill.buss...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Theme Park Review" <robbal...@themeparkreview.com> wrote in messagenews:b61ea737-924d-4f97...@q30g2000prq.googlegroups.com...
> -Wolf- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, I concur TOTALLY on the steel. Kawasemi blew me away. I rode
it 5 or 6 times, and it was just fabulous, DEFINITELY one of the best
in the world. Size does NOT matter. Eagle's Fortress is the same.
That ride is amazing. Yeah, it ain't the fastest, or the tallest, by
a mile, but it is 1000% FUN!!! The setting on the hill was a huge
part of that.

And Atlantis Adventure is also top ten material. The beginning is
brilliant, and scares the bejeebees out of you the first time. I'm
rarely scared on a coaster, and AA gets major points for doing that!

No doubt, Seoul is one hell of a coaster destination. I was lucky as
hell to get an all expenses paid trip there this year.

-RO

Theme Park Review

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 10:02:06 PM12/23/08
to
On Dec 23, 4:01 pm, Richard Bannister <richard.bannis...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I should have voted. I didn't get round to it.
>
> But for the record, I prefer Voyage to T-Express, though I'd
> definitely put T-E in my top ten.

Oh thank god! We can now blame Richard for the poll results, not me!
=)

See guys, Richard is CLEARLY the person you should be hating. If he
had submitted his poll Voyage would have been #1 and everyone would be
pooping roses instead of digging the sand out of their mangina.

Then again had he submitted his poll Eagle's Fortress would have been
number one and we would have had the same discussion all over
again... *sigh*

But at least the hatred would be directed towards Richard where it
CLEARLY belongs and not me!

Thank you Richard! You have saved me!

--Robb

GodsOnSafari

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 10:13:23 PM12/23/08
to
On Dec 23, 10:02 pm, Theme Park Review <robbal...@themeparkreview.com>
wrote:

> On Dec 23, 4:01 pm, Richard Bannister <richard.bannis...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I should have voted. I didn't get round to it.
>
> > But for the record, I prefer Voyage to T-Express, though I'd
> > definitely put T-E in my top ten.
>
> Oh thank god!  We can now blame Richard for the poll results, not me!
> =)

Except it wouldn't have made a difference. On the upside, I'm sure
you're having an AMAZING TRIP~ to Korea next year (seats are limited,
dudes and dudettes) to go ride the new #1 coaster on the planet, as
voted by you, your wife, and a couple people you know.

In any case, isn't it time you made your big sweeping post about
leaving forever again? Or how you post stuff because we all look at it
even though we're already constantly looking at your site already and
all that jazz? Do we need to coax you off with links to hilarity? Hey,
look:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=133221118

There's one!

GodsOnSafari

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 10:40:11 PM12/23/08
to
> http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&frie...
>
> There's one!

Hey, something arrived in my e-mail:

"You know it's one thing if you want to attack me or my business, but
now you're posting links to my kids MySpace? What kind of sick creepy
stalker are you? I guess it's par for the course for you and all the
other GAPtards that think it's "ok" to start messing with people's
personal lives.

It's just disturbing the efforts that some of you people go through
over a roller coaster website. This is exactly the reason I've banned
all the GAP members from TPR. "

lolololololol did it for the LULZ.

Theme Park Review

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 10:48:25 PM12/23/08
to
Um, you don't think it's creepy and stalkerish that you went and
posted my daughters MySpace link? That you went and looked up my kids
over a roller coaster discussion? Am I the only one that thinks thats
creepy?

If you want to attack me or my business, go for it. Leave my children
out of this!

--Robb "I don't think I'm being out of line!" Alvey

jhb...@bellsouth.net

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 10:48:33 PM12/23/08
to
> lolololololol did it for the LULZ.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

LOL to Blobb still blaming the GAP for all of HIS troubles....

Theme Park Review

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 10:51:20 PM12/23/08
to
On Dec 23, 7:48 pm, jhb...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> LOL to Blobb still blaming the GAP for all of HIS troubles....- Hide quoted text -

The majority of the people producing the drama in this thread are all
from GAP. You can call me any childish names you want, I don't care.
But leave my kids and my personal life out of your discussions.

--Robb

Tommy

unread,
Dec 23, 2008, 10:51:29 PM12/23/08
to
So then I guess he has banned more than 4 people after all?

Theme Park Review

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Dec 23, 2008, 10:52:55 PM12/23/08
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On Dec 23, 7:51 pm, Tommy <Fright...@aol.com> wrote:
> So then I guess he has banned more than 4 people after all?

Oh good, another GAP member! Welcome to the discussion!

jhb...@bellsouth.net

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Dec 23, 2008, 10:54:18 PM12/23/08
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On Dec 23, 9:51 pm, Theme Park Review <robbal...@themeparkreview.com>
wrote:

You are more retarded than I thought... I've only seen 2 or 3 folks
from the GAP post in reply to your comments and none of them even
brought it up. They were talking about you from personal experiences
and YOU go and bring the GAP up. And it's even more lol if you think
the GAP talks about you constanly. Why don't you get your
"entertainment lawyers' to sue me fucktard.

David Sandborg

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Dec 23, 2008, 11:00:25 PM12/23/08
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In article
<2ab4439b-f590-40f2...@y1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
christoph...@navy.mil wrote:

> /topic
> I've enjoyed helping Mitch with the polls the past few years, I see
> that his system works, although it could probably stand a couple
> tweaks. T-Express and Eagle's Fortress are likely outstanding rides in
> their own right, but it's the perception that the polls have been
> skewed that is the problem.
>

> [...]


>
> The desire of this poll, is to NOT become another Golden Tickets,
> where highly visited parks can run away with all the awards simply
> through volume of votes. There is a balance point, and this year, 'we'
> might have missed it. Maybe not.

It's interesting. A couple of years ago I actually was doing some
research on voting/rating algorithms for work, and looked into Mitch's
in particular. I even did a quick and dirty implementation of it. I
found out a lot more about advanced voting systems. There are a lot of
other alternative algorithms out there; I wonder what would happen if
some others were run against the same data set? The problem is that the
results of just about any of the alternatives are harder to understand
than Mitch's.

--
Dave Sandborg
Remove Spam-away to respond via e-mail.

GodsOnSafari

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Dec 23, 2008, 11:09:52 PM12/23/08
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On Dec 23, 10:48 pm, Theme Park Review <robbal...@themeparkreview.com>
wrote:

> Um, you don't think it's creepy and stalkerish that you went and
> posted my daughters MySpace link?  That you went and looked up my kids
> over a roller coaster discussion? Am I the only one that thinks thats
> creepy?

Yo, did you meet Randy yet? Or is the whole difficulty communicating
in a personal manner making things tough?

Andrew Brawley

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Dec 23, 2008, 11:25:25 PM12/23/08
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Dear Santa,

I've been a very good boy this year. For Christmas, I'd like a whetstone,
and a microphone...

Happy Holidays,

-Drew


Rollermonkey

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Dec 23, 2008, 11:37:13 PM12/23/08
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On Dec 23, 9:51 pm, Theme Park Review <robbal...@themeparkreview.com>
wrote:

I'm going to LOL and agree with jhb up there. Nobody brought up the
GAP here, but you Robb.

You know, for a guy with nothing to hide, and is such a saint, you
sure get defensive awfully fast.

MAYBE YOU SHOULD GET A THICKER SKIN IF YOU WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE
INTERNET.

That is about what you told me when I complained. Hmm. Must not be
good advice if you can't even follow it yourself.

Oh, and remember: You can't sue for slander or libel if the original
information is true. Any lawyer would know that.

Rollermonkey

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Dec 23, 2008, 11:40:59 PM12/23/08
to
On Dec 23, 9:51 pm, Tommy <Fright...@aol.com> wrote:
> So then I guess he has banned more than 4 people after all?

Well, yes. We thought of 5 in about 30 seconds. Then there's the fact
that anyone who's banned from TPR is also banned from attending TPR
trips...

Since he blanket banned anyone who's a member of the GAP because they
MIGHT have seen his criminal record for the 3 seconds it was
posted...

That's another 195-200 people right there...

Richard Bannister

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Dec 24, 2008, 4:39:36 AM12/24/08
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On Dec 24, 12:38 am, christopher.bel...@navy.mil wrote:
> The desire of this poll, is to NOT become another Golden Tickets,
> where highly visited parks can run away with all the awards simply
> through volume of votes. There is a balance point, and this year, 'we'
> might have missed it. Maybe not.

I think the Golden Tickets can be summarised by the fact that for the
last few years every single winner in all categories has been in the
United States. I'm not suggesting for a minute that the winning rides
and attractions are not deserving of praise, but it does raise
questions about the validity of the poll when NO foreign attractions
are featured.

Rob Vaccaro

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Dec 24, 2008, 7:09:56 AM12/24/08
to


Dude..

I don't know you, but you're pretty out of line, don't you think?
Granted.. I'm no saint and I certainly don't know your history with
Robb but.. wtf man...

Bill Buckley

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Dec 24, 2008, 8:06:41 AM12/24/08
to
"Theme Park Review" wrote:
>[snip for brevity]

>
>We had Balder as #1 for many years and people said the same thing "Oh,
>just wait until more people ride it and then you'll see how it REALLY
>sucks!" but hey, Balder is still at #5 in the world so it must be
>doing something right and other people obviously find it as good as we
>do. And even when we took a group to Liseberg, not everyone liked it
>like we did, but that didn't matter, it still did really great in the
>poll and I'm sure everyone enjoyed our 3 hours of ERT on it with only
>46 people! =)

But that's the thing -- early on, Balder ruled the roost and was deserving
of it's former #1 spot. Since the park-imposed 2007 "slow down," the ride
lost a LOT of speed and punch. It now laborously lumbers through the turns
ala SFMM's Collosus. The speed hills still produce air, but not like they
once did.

Overall? Since 2007, the ride is a "certified bore" in my humble opinion,
and certainly not worthy of a Top 5 ranking. To see it there screams
"fanboi" to me.


>I somehow get the feeling that it all of a sudden a group of 15 of us
>came back and ranked TGG's Fireball as #1 we wouldn't get as much heat
>as the Intamin woodie. There does seem to be some animosity amoungst
>the "woodie purists" that Intamin woodies shouldn't even count as wood
>coasters and I find that absurd.

Fwiw, that's not my point of view. I've been ranking Germany's Colossus
highly for years, even when nobody else seemed to care? But yes, there are
some who very much do not like the feel of the Intamin PnP woodies, and
still there are other who feel while rides like El Toro have their moments
of greatness, it also has some pretty dull moments (i.e. section after the
1st turnaround, section into the brake run...)

Hell, if you look at my ballot submission, you'll see my preference for what
would be considered "Classic Woodies." Me? I'll take the PNE Coaster or
the Lakeside Cyclone over Balder ANY day of the week!!!

As always, YMMV...


-B, "not a purist, just another guy with an opinion."


Bill Buckley

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Dec 24, 2008, 8:43:24 AM12/24/08
to
"Rastus O'Ginga" wrote:
>
>So, are you just jeolous of Robb? I mean, really, TPR has totally
>usurped ACE as an influence on coasters. You used to hate ACE, now
>you don't anymore for whatever reason. Robb should ask Richard Munch
>to become TPR's historical expert, now that Mr. Subterfuge saw it
>prudent to oust a founder from that position.
>
>I'm sure he's more connected than you are, and you're probably green
>with envy. His monthly server fees are huge. He can go to damn near any
>park in the world and be treated like a celebrity. He gives great
publicity to
>parks, he doesn't just publish pictures of him and Elissa sitting in a
>coaster train in the station with forced smiles on their faces.


I wrote Robb offline after his 1st post, but let me repeat some of the items
I said to him here publically.

For someone with a ride count somewhere in excess of 900 (??), there was
clearly a time in my life when I lived and breathed coasters. However,
people grow up, priorities and perspective change. And while I can't speak
for anyone else (nor would I ever attempt to), I can tell you that as far as
Bill Buckley is concerned, I honest and truly don't give a crap what happens
in the roller coaster world anymore:

- ACE? Don't care what they do, the internal going's on, the controversies,
etc. I maintain a membership for no reason other than nostalgia.
- ECC? Justin is a close, personal friend, and I still very much believe in
Justin's vision for his club. So I remain a strong supporter, even though I
no longer have the time to submit material for FD or be involved with the
staff.
- RRC? Still read/post here, as I feel it's still my baby (even though it
grew up to big a big, retarded baby). Rendell Bird and I simultaneously
submitted the documentation to create this newsgroup -- Rendell's beat mine
in the process, so he's technically the creater of the website, but I follow
in as a close 2nd. Prior to RRC, I had been maintaining a Roller Coaster
USENET-style newsgroup on Digital Equipment Corporation's worldwide computer
network since 1986.
- Coaster counting? Don't do it anymore. Don't care to.
- Chasing coasters? Nope... if something catches my interest, and I have
time avail, I might go ride it.
- Trips? HWN and PPP are my mainstays. I might do 1-2 personal trips a
year on top of that and consider myself satisfied.
- Coaster Websites? More power to the people who have the time and inkling
to participate, but they're not for me.

At 45, what's important in my life is my family and my career. EVERYTHING
else, I could truly give a shit about. And you can take that to the bank!!

So to address your statements, Jason. No, I'm not jealous of Robb, nor am I
green with envy. As Mike/BASSIST already pointed out, Robb does some
amazing things with his club, his website, and his club trips. MORE POWER
TO HIM if that's what he wants to be doing, I say. But Robb's goals and
aspirations couldn't be farther opposed to what mine are. I think it would
be safe to say we're nearly 180 degrees apart in our goals and actions.

I've been working in IT computer technology for over 30 years now. I often
had the opportunities to do what others have done, but have passed on the
opportunities, because they weren't important to me, my time and my actions.
These include:
- create a website similar to Screamscape or Coasterbuzz
- create a web application similar to what RCDB became

So kudos to Lance and Jeff and Duane for seeing their visions through. But
honestly, I'm not jealous because I'm well-adjusted to the course I set for
my own life. And when all was said and done, roller coasters did not come
up as a high priority. Which is why I'm not longer an ACE Regional Rep,
member of the ACE Executive Committee, First Drop magazine editor, annual
IAAPA attendee, etc.

And if Robb can traipse around the world and be greeted with the red carpet
at every park in the world, also more power to him. That stuff is just not
important to me Jason.

I stopped all that shit in 1999. You wanna know what's been important to me
for the past 9 years? Taking care of my very sick father, whom I just
buried not a month ago. But I suspect it's probably FAR beyond your
comprehension, Jason, to understand how being selfless and devoting EVERY
DAY of your life to an ill family member whom you love for nearly a decade
is more imporant that running around riding fucking roller coasters.

It's clear to anyone with a set of eyes to see that you hate me. But you
know what, Jason? I don't give a fuck!!! Hate away. Throw your poison
prose at me all you want. You're NOTHING in my life. Your words don't hurt
me. They just make you look like the fool you are. You'll get your just
deserts come judgement day.

OK, are we all clear now? Great, thanks.

-B


Bill Buckley

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Dec 24, 2008, 8:45:43 AM12/24/08
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"Rastus O'Ginga" <rast...@kingwoodcable.net> wrote:
>> Just realize that you are simply an ex ACE ECer who likes to name
>> drop. Robb is probably the most influential coaster fan on the
>> planet. You're just a bitter queen in NJ.

"Adam Revesz" wrote:
>Wait! Buck moved to NJ?? Since when? Hey Buck, c'mon over for a cup of
>coffee. We'll discuss this madness! :)

I live in Massachusetts, I'm not bitter, and I'm not a queen. Basically,
none of that statement is true, but please don't be alarmed at the fact that
Jason's highly confused.

Continue on..

-B


Victor Canfield

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Dec 24, 2008, 10:16:47 AM12/24/08
to
Theme Park Review wrote:

> The majority of the people producing the drama in this thread are all
> from GAP.

Count me as clueless--what is the GAP?

Keith Hopkins

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Dec 24, 2008, 11:35:11 AM12/24/08
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"Victor Canfield" <va...@psu.edu> wrote in message
news:gitjov$ac1c$1...@tr22n12.aset.psu.edu...