Top ten wood:
1) T Express - Everland
2) The Voyage - Holiday World
3) El Toro - SFGAd
4) Boulder Dash - Lake Compounce
5) Balder - Liseberg
6) Phoenix - Knoebel's
7) Aska (S) - Nara Dreamland
8) Troy - Toverland
9) Ravine Flyer II - Waldameer
10) Colossos - Heide Park
Bottom ten wood:
167) Magnus Colossus - Terra Mitica
168) Rattler - Fiesta Texas
169) Coaster-Express - Parque Warner Madrid
170) Underground - Adventureland
171) Lil' Dipper - Camden Park
172) The Bandit - Movie Park
173) Predator - Darien Lake
174) Son of Beast - Kings Island
175) Anaconda - Walygator Parc
176) The Grizzly - Great America
I do think it really says something when 4 Intamin woodies are now in
the top ten worlds best wood coasters!
If you haven't seen T Express in action yet, have a look at our video:
Did it CRUSH The Voyage?
Am I reading this right? 14 people rode T Express and it got number
If so, I bet TPR's Korea trip had major influence in its position.
Ya think? Say hello to the Tonnerre De Zeus of a new generation.
I see we have a new TdZ. I expect it will drop precipitiously as soon as an
ACE trips goes over there and it gets torn apart, never to re-appear in the
Of the 14 people to ride T Express, 8 of them had ridden Voyage and only 9
had ridden a steel coaster. Interesting demographic, that.
Ya think? Say hello to the Tonnerre De Zeus of a new generation.
Mitch's poll has always skewed towards less-ridden rides.
Does anyone else think it's ... I donno, "weird" (for lack of a better term)
that this crop of "T-Express is the worlds new #1 woodie!" posts came so
quickly from TPR, as if it served as some sort of thinly veiled marketing
Hell, the server chips weren't even done paging memory and the WIki page for
The Voyage was already updated to reflect the fact that it's no longer the
I mean, not withstanding that Robb's no fan of HW. Just pure coincidence,
(Things that make ya go Hmmmm.....)
> I do think it really says something when 4 Intamin woodies are now in
> the top ten worlds best wood coasters!
Says to me you're well coordinated in your internal efforts and
> If you haven't seen T Express in action yet, have a look at our video:
Honestly? Looks as dull as Balder is now (post slow-down). But the ECC is
doing a trip to Everland in 2009, so I'm sure there will be more opinions on
this ride for next year's poll.
Helps when you can pick out the well connected names of who voted for
it too. TDZ arose because of a limited number of riders and conditions
that hindered it when larger groups started to visit. T-Express is a
pretty clear political pick assisted greatly by location.
Really? I'm flattered that you would think that, but I feel you're
wrong. Let's take a look at the people who rode it:
Gavin Jones - No idea who this person is. Ranked it #1
Joey Mandel - TPR member on our tour who also works in the amusement
park biz and has quite a vast collection of coasters across the globe
under his belt. Ranked it #1
loefet - A swedish Balder fan with a new #1 Intamin woodie.
milst1 - Ranked Voyage #1, T-Express #10
Richard Harbison - No idea who this person is. Ranked T Express #1
Unknown voter - Ranked T-Express #4, RF2 - #1
George Greenway - TPR member, ECC Member, ACE Member. Was on our
China trip but not on our Korea trip. Ranked it #1
Nick McKay - Only been on 5 woodies and based on his list I can see
why T-Express would be his #1
Dave Lawrence - Ranked it #3 behind Voyage
Me - Ranked it #1 where I feel it should be. (Although had my El Toro
rides been a bit better this year Toro would have been my #1)
Rich E.- On the TPR trip and has a great collection of woodies. Ranked
it #1 and was probably the rides biggest fan on our trip.
Dave Thomas - Ranked T-Express #3. C'mon, Dave has been riding
coasters for YEARS!
Jeff Johnson - Ranked it #1. Same with Dave, Jeff has been around for
years, although a few centuries more than Dave. ;)
Elissa - Miss Intamin fan herself ranked it #3.
I fail to see how this was some political pick by TPR as you claim
when some of the key members of TPR didn't actually rank it #1! It
would seem to me that people who we are not associated with pushed it
over the top.
Mr, "I know everything" Bill Buckley Writes:
>Does anyone else think it's ... I donno, "weird" (for lack of a better term)
>that this crop of "T-Express is the worlds new #1 woodie!" posts came so
>quickly from TPR, as if it served as some sort of thinly veiled marketing
LMAO at you Bill! Are you kidding? I saw the post come up on TPR (It
wasn't even me who posted it), I browsed RRC and saw the news hadn't
been posted and I copy/pasted basically what someone else posted to
TPR to RRC. The words in my initial post mostly not even mine! (Don't
worry Ginzo didn't mind me re-posting the text)
>Hell, the server chips weren't even done paging memory and the WIki page for
>The Voyage was already updated to reflect the fact that it's no longer the
The amount of effort you are going to make this look like something
else is laughable. If you are implying that *I* changed the Wiki Page
well I have not ever looked at it, so please go witch hunt someone
>I mean, not withstanding that Robb's no fan of HW. Just pure coincidence, I'm sure.
Um, WHAT??!!? We like HW just fine! We held an event with them just
last year! I'm actually quite a big fan of that park. While I might
not be a huge Voyage fan, I happen to think HW is one of the nicest
parks in the country and even still we support Voyage quite a lot! Do
a Google or YouTube search for "Holiday World Voyage Video" and we're
the first video link to come up behind the parks website. We've
featured Voyage and Raven on two of our RAW DVDs and we will continue
to work with the park on other future projects. Your assessment is
wrong, Buck and I don't appreciate your poor attempt and trying to
I will be very interested to see how T-Express ranks next year and the
year after, etc, etc.... I welcome as many people as possible to go
ride it and I hope more people get the chance. It was very close for
me and had Toro been running this year like it was for us last year,
Toro would have gotten my #1 vote. T Express just slightly edged it
out. I don't feel myself or anyone else I'm affiliated had any
additional influence over it's ranking more than the next person who
happened to ride it this year. The fact that some of you may think
that's the case is just absurd, but then again RRC really seems to get
off on blaming Robb Alvey for stuff so it's par for the course. ;)
--Robb "Next think you know I'll be blamed for Eagle's Fortress and
Kawasemi in the steel poll!" Alvey
ps. As far as TdZ is concerned I had kick ass rides on it this year
that caused me to rank it #9. I feel the main reason why it has such
poor rankings is because it ran so badly for ACE's 2002 trip and not
many people from that trip have been back since. Even I ranked it
very low that year and the following years until 2005 where it ran
GREAT and in 2008 when it ran even better! IMO, this year TdZ was
back to where it was in 1999.
I already did. If you, Elissa, Jeff, and Dave voted it better than
Voyage (regardless of placement on the list), it's pretty close to a
guarantee that we've got a new #1.
Controversy and conspiracy theories! Sweet!
On a tangent, how hard would it be to game the poll? Does Mitch use
any kind of policing method to prevent sock-puppetry? I don't
participate in the poll, because my riding days are done. But if I
wanted to submit multiple polls, is there anything that might flag my
[clear up the hissing to email]
"Excuse me, sir, but you appear to be sitting
on my gown. Would you be so kind as to move?"
LMAO! So I take away two things from your statement -
1. We are not allowed to vote another coaster over The Voyage sayz
2. Elissa, Jeff, Dave, and I determine the outcome of Mitch's poll.
Do you see how totally absurd this sounds??!?!
Robb Alvey fact: I like all the Intamin woodies over The
Voyage...that's is my OPINION, and I know that opinions are not
normally welcomed here on RRC, but I have one so deal with it.
Well, if I would have got off my ass and voted, my ballot wouldn't
have had T-Express and Voyage at the top. I wonder if I could have
impacted the results. T-Express is an awesome beginning, and then a
very boring end. A few big hills after the brakes and it would be the
greatest by a mile. Elissa seems to have come to my opinion on the
ride, so I doubt she had it at the top. I haven't really thought
about my top ten seriously, but Kentucky Rumbler would be up near the
top. And Raven is still awesome.
You're certainly allowed to vote for whatever coaster you'd like, and
yes, we know, you heart Holiday World *now*. That said, the second
part? Pretty much true. You four made up half the voting block of it
in the head to head against Voyage.
> Robb Alvey fact: I like all the Intamin woodies over The
> Voyage...that's is my OPINION, and I know that opinions are not
> normally welcomed here on RRC, but I have one so deal with it.
Robb Alvey as free speech advocate? LOL.
That's what I was wondering? I mean, if you make up some fictitious name,
fictitious location, get a junk email address from Y*hoo, H*tmail, etc. and
then submit an additional ballot from that address, who's to know? Unless
the IP address shows on two different names as being from the same computer,
and IP addresses are being monitored and cross checked. But, use a
friend's computer or one at work, or get someone else to submit a ballot for
you, and that goes out the window.
We see that it only took 14 ballots (out of 600+ submissions) needed to
declare "the best!". If someone figured that out it certainly wouldn't take
that much effort if that person wanted to put a lesser ridden coaster at the
top, or to knock one out of the #1 spot. If someone REALLY wanted to have
that effect on the results?
Gee, Buck, you'd be the first to say someone else throwing out
consipiracy theories was a total moron.
Elissa isn't a huge fan of T-Express, but Robb does seem to be.
Honestly, the section before the brake is absolutely brilliant, and
without a doubt the best 30 seconds of a wood coaster anywhere. The
rest is a series of slow turns and near-painful small hills.
So, are you just jeolous of Robb? I mean, really, TPR has totally
usurped ACE as an influence on coasters. You used to hate ACE, now
you don't anymore for whatever reason. Robb should ask Richard Munch
to become TPR's historical expert, now that Mr. Subterfuge saw it
prudent to oust a founder from that position.
I used to rag on Robb's site, when everyone loved it at the beginning,
I'll be honest. But I sure don't anymore. I'm sure he's more
connected than you are, and you're probably green with envy. His
monthly server fees are huge. He can go to damn near any park in the
world and be treated like a celebrity. He gives great publicity to
parks, he doesn't just publish pictures of him and Elissa sitting in a
coaster train in the station with forced smiles on their faces.
I'd love to go on one of his trips, like next year's Scandanavia one.
But, they're too long, and they spend too much on hotel rooms, imho.
But they sure are better trips than ACE ones.
Just realize that you are simply an ex ACE ECer who likes to name
drop. Robb is probably the most influential coaster fan on the
planet. You're just a bitter queen in NJ.
You could absolutely do that. You could have made the coaster at
Korean Folk Village #1 with just a few fake ballots. I think Mitch
would catch that. Robb listed all the T-Express/Voyage voters. There
were like 2 unknown ones.
Anyone who isn't "well known" probably wouldn't get counted in that
instance, with the logic being that the coaster enthusiasts most
likely to have been are people who are extremely well traveled and
well known to the community as a result.
Tell me about it.
In the end, after the things I did with TPR, (and even a little bit
for TPR) and after defending Robb to numerous people bashing him to
me, after all the things he's supposedly told people about me, he
banned me from his site because I disagreed with him about one stupid
I agree that the poll was used as a means to generate publicity for
TPR trips. Enough people OUTSIDE TPR know enough about Robb and his
amazing history, to stay far, far away. It's the kids that I feel bad
for, and I'm not just talking about the TPR teen crowd.
OBTW, Robb, I've been banned for over a year now, are you EVER going
to stop sending me spam and/or delete my account? I mean, you've been
telling people that I can't go on any trip that you are even vaguely
associated with, so why send me the flyers?
Sad to see people try to skew Mitch's Poll year after year. It's no
wonder he wants to stop doing it.
> Just realize that you are simply an ex ACE ECer who likes to name
> drop. Robb is probably the most influential coaster fan on the
> planet. You're just a bitter queen in NJ.
> Merry Christmas!
> -RO- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Wait! Buck moved to NJ?? Since when? Hey Buck, c'mon over for a cup of
coffee. We'll discuss this madness! :)
Live to Ride,
> The fact that some of you may think that's the case is just absurd, but
> then again RRC really seems to get
> off on blaming Robb Alvey for stuff so it's par for the course. ;)
Honestly, Robb, you don't come up that much in here anymore, usually only in
reaction to your posting TPR spam or when you find find some data that
validates your opinions.
I don't know why the odd, homely little collection of 30-40 geeks left over
on RRC remains your personal bete noire, but perhaps it's time to get over
it? You got raked over the coals on here years ago, true enough, and did
plenty of raking on your own, but you're acting (in this thread) like it's
still 2002. You own the most popular site for coasters, have the most
traffic, and pretty much own the internet when it comes to coasters. For all
intents and purposes, you've won, in every conceivable way. Why not just let
poor little RRC go off and die in peace?
Every poll has strengths and weaknesses. A poll like Amusement Today
doesn't accurately represent the quality of a coaster that is far away
and less travelled although potentially quite excellent, and on the
other side of the divide Mitches poll, which can give a lesser known
out of the way coaster that is quite good it's due, is absolutely open
to manipulation, and I wouldn't be shocked at all if some attempts at
manipulating it have occurred through the years. Such is the nature of
the beast. Since we know this can happen, it's pretty obvious that a
situation where a smaller group of people who rates a coaster fairly
highly relative to a more well travelled (and also highly rated
coaster) can skew the results.... and one could easily argue that
similar things happened, when, say, Tremors came onto the scene and a
smaller group of folks who travelled to a remote part of the US rode
it, liked it a lot, and it went up in the rankings. The way Mitches
poll is structured, that's bound to happen from time to time.
a) Over time, these things even out and the hard-to-travel-to pick
will likely fall into it's zone over time once more folks get to it -
now, given this coaster is in Korea, this may take a while, but over
time, things seem to even out. Mitches poll when viewed on an
individual year basis can be inaccurate since it can be so easily
skewed, but over time I do think it provides a pretty accurate view in
terms of which coasters are highly regarded overall.
b) Looking at the numbers, I think, since we the reader/viewer of the
poll know it can be skewed, we can simply look and go "okay, coaster
ZZZ had a very small number of riders and it ended up #1 (or whatever)
but coasters BBB and AAA had quite a few riders and ranked quite high
over the years of the poll" and from that we can kind of get an idea
of what really might be the case once things even out. In my eyes I
see the two schools of thought - the Intamin Hybrid vs the CCI/Gravity
group both have a lot of supporters, and thus from a non-emotional
standpoint, it's pretty obvious that enthusiasts like em both - no
matter what any single persons opinion is of them.
c) Why do people get so bent out of shape over which coaster is #1
The only really useful reason for a poll that I can see is to guide
your travel plans should you not be able to afford to travel
everywhere. And even these days, with the internet and so much
information and opinion out there even this reason is diminished. 20
years ago a top ten list of an experienced rider meant a lot more than
it does today, because that gave you information you desired to form
your travel plans that wasn't available anywhere else. These days,
that info can come from a variety of sources - IMO the most helpful
are written Trip Reports from folks who have similar tastes (photo
TR's are about as useless as can be for this task, but that's just
me). So why do we even get into the arguments? In some ways it's
becoming a bigger-dick contest, the same as track record counts have
d) Should Mitch try and prevent skewing? Sure - but how? At what point
do you filter out a lesser ridden ride? I've always wondered about
factoring in, somehow, the magnitude of quality differences between
rides (for me rides like Voyage/Hades/Ravine Flyer II are all quite
excellent, and light years ahead of something I might have ranked even
as high as #15, so how about factoring in the difference in perceived
quality between rides?). One could go on and on. Mitches poll ain't
perfect, but over time I still think it produces the best *overall*
snapshot of what enthusiasts think. Who is #1 on the poll is likely to
change, and I'm not sure it really means that much. Just because an
Intamin is #1 doesn't mean that someone like myself, who does not like
steel coasters and prefers traditional aggressive woodies is suddenly
going to change opinion any more than an Intamin hybrid fan is going
to change their opinion because Voyage got #1 or whatever. And I could
open up a huge can of worms with my opinion that enthusiast opinions
aren't remotely close to general public opinions and thus the whole
poll might not be relevant to the casual park visitor, but that's a
Overall, it's just a poll. Factor out the lesser ridden coasters and
possible skewing, and the tastes are laid out about the same as they
were the last year.
When are you going to take personal responsibility for what you were
really banned from TPR and our tours for? If you want to discuss
these things, please do it with me personally. However I know you
won't do that because you and I both know the reasons why were were
banned are not what you wrote. There have been a total about 4 people
banned from TPR tours out of nearly 500 or so we've had go on trips
now. We don't go banning people for no reasons at all. You know what
you did, but you don't want to take blame for it. Instead you just
want to blame myself and TPR and tell everyone else a very different
Keep doing it. Maybe someday someone will buy your story. TPR
It's all the same here and no, not much has changed since 2002. Which
is why I choose to not be active on this forum other than posting my
TPR "spam" which I'm willing to bet most of you read but would never
Well, Robb. Nice to actually get a reply from you.
Since I found out that I had been banned from TPR trips from people on
the Spain trip, and not from yourself, let's start there.
You told people that I tried to climb or asked to climb the lift hill
of Pepsi Max Big One at Blackpool, or something to that effect.
Both of us know that isn't the truth. I was taking pictures and video
of that coaster, and a park employee OFFERED me the opportunity to go
to the closed monorail station for the best angle.
You even came over there with me! I never asked for it, but the people
at the park were super nice and suggested it to me.
I tried for months to get a reply from you about trips the next year,
but you never replied. Until they were full. I tried to get
explanations from you as to why I was being treated so shabbily, and
your only response was that I needed a thicker skin.
In the end, you banned me from the site because I was right about
Maverick's inspiration/design, (Which I never claimed that I was
certain of, only that I'd heard it from someone else.) and you and
others made fun of me for it for ages. When you decided that it was
probably true, (and you even made it front page on the site) and I
made a comment that it was sad that those who had originally suggested
it were treated shabbily, you deleted my post and banned me.
So, at what point will you ever feel it appropriate to tell me the
truth of why you banned me from the trips and/or the site?
After you try to bash me at every other website? Oh but never
publiclly, you just tell the site owners what a horrible person I am.
Never to me personally, either.
Before you go about slamming people you don't like, consider your own
life and the things you've done and the people you've spurned.
Because in the end, I never wronged you. I tried to work things out
offline, but you chose to insult me instead.
In real life, my concience is clean.
If yours is, then you need more help than I can give you,
Robb. I really did like you once. Then I learned how you treat
So that's my 'story'. What's yours, because I'd really like to hear
your side of it. But yeah, let's keep it public.
1) Superman - Ride of Steel - Six Flags New England
2) Eagle's Fortress - Everland
3) Expedition GeForce - Holiday Park
*) Kawasemi - Tobu Zoo
5) Piraten - Djurs Sommerland
6) Nemesis - Alton Towers
7) Behemoth - Canadas Wonderland
8) Goliath - Walibi World
9) Katun - Mirabilandia
10) Dragon Khan - Port Aventura
11) Pyrenees - Parque EspaNa
12) Millennium Force - Cedar Point
*) Atlantis Adventure - Lotte World
14) Goliath - Six Flags Over Georgia
15) Maverick - Cedar Point
16) Nitro - Six Flags Great Adventure
17) SheiKra - Busch Gardens Africa
18) Montu - Busch Gardens Africa
19) Ride of Steel - Darien Lake
20) Apollo's Chariot - Busch Gardens Europe
And dead last:
358) Goudurix - Parc Asterix
Goudurix retains its spot at the bottom. (where it should be!)
If you haven't seen or been on Eagle's Fortress, the ride is
absoultely amazing! Here is the footage we shot of the ride:
IMO, Everland has the best one-two punch of wood-steel over any other
park in the world! Now they just need to get rid of that horrible
"Rolling X Train" and get one more decent coaster and I think we'll be
visiting Korea every year! Between Lotte World and Everland, Seoul is
challenging other parts of the world for "best coasters and best
We did our first trip to S. Korea in 2007 thinking it would be a
"credit run" trip, and we liked the parks so much that we returned in
2008. Granted T Express did help seal that decision, but those two
parks are fantastic! I highly reccomend them to everyone.
For anyone who is thinking about the ECC Korea Trip, have a look at
our S. Korea article and you'll see it's well worth the visit:
And one more last plug. Atlantis Adventure is another coaster that
everyone needs to ride! Such an amazing coaster for such a compact
space. Here is the video we produced:
So here you all go. I'm not here to offer drama or debate conspiracy
theories. I'm here to share information, photos, and videos about
roller coasters across the globe. I would hope that's what you all
want as well because that's what this forum should be all about.
Thanks for reading!
Based on past history, here are the expected responses:
A) IP ban, silence (extremely likely, really funny if he starts
B) You're lying, followed by argument to authority based on being a
dude who runs a coaster site, followed by the shouts of a few 17 year
olds guided over here (significantly less likely, though possible)
C) A more fantastic version of reality (not very likely, still in the
realm of possibility)
Mike's pretty OTM. Robb's undoubtedly reached his goal of building a
major base of enthusiasts that go with him as opposed to ACE and
represent, well, whatever it is he likes at that time. And yet he is
still compelled to return to RRC on occasion to spam in the guise of
"sharing opinions" to all 20 or so people reading.
Its funny, because I've often been reflecting about this hobby, how
surreal it all is, and how I've been involved in it in some form for a
decade, and this thread comes along to just throw about a hundred more
question marks at me. Now that RRC is basically a place where Mark
Rozenweig, Mike Saunders, and I post TRs on rare occasion (along with
baiting Rastus and laughing at NoGodForMe's ban), its probably better
than it has been in a long time. I guess everyone is happy with that
outcome (unless Robb's personal vendettas against you don't let you
into West Coast Bash).