Mallets, Fairlies and Garratts
Dave Cromarty
Mallets and Beyer-Garratts (and Sachsen-Meyers [sp?] if they're
different again)? I recall seeing this done in print somewhere but
unfortunately I can't remember where :(
TIA
Dave
--
Dave Cromarty da...@imago.demon.co.uk
All opinions are mine and should not be attributed
to any other person or organisation.
cho...@vms.ocom.okstate.edu
>>> >
Well articulated and informative posting cut short for bandwith
:> A Fairlie has 2 sets of drivers, both of which are free to swivel
:> under a rigid frame. The Fairlie had a double boiler heated by a
:> common firebox located in the middle of the engine.
The Fairlie in its final version had a divided firebox because of the
effect of one engine working harder than another drawing cold air through
the chimney backwards (not well articulated)
i remember this from the BBC "Steam Horse Iron Road"
:> Hope this helps.
>
> Alan Havens
>
> The above does not represent any official opinnion of anybody, anywhere.
Regards, david, not OSUCOM
Roger Mitchell
usually rigidly mounted to the rear high pressure engine and the front low
pressure engine swung from side to side under it. One exception to this
practice was the flexible boilers used by the AT&SF railroad where the
boiler was also hinged in the middle and both ends of the boiler
were rigidly attached to their respective engines. The AT&SF flexible boilers
were not without their problems however and did not last long.
The Fairley type engines had a double ended boiler with the firebox
amidships in the middle. each engine was pivoted in it's middle under each end
of the boiler, usually with the cylinders pointed toward the ends of the
locomotive.
The Garrats had a conventional boiler on a frame that sat between the
frames of the front and rear engines. The engine closest to the firebox
end of the boiler carried the coal compartment and the on at the opposite
end carried the water tank.
Roger Mitchell
Ferroequinologist
Vice President and Master Mechanic
Fort Collins Municipal Railway
Clarence
This brings up another question...
Southern Pacific built several engines, 2-6+6-2, that had
drivers solidly mounted under the frames, with the locomotive and
boiler hinged in the middle!
It was during the 19-teens or 19-twenties. They had so many steam leak
problems that they were finally dismantled and turned in to a two
2-8-0s each, (if memory serves me correctly. I have a book at home,
not here.)
What is it called, or did it have a designation?
*************************************************************************
* * Outside of a dog, *
* Clarence Calkins * a book is a man's *
* * best friend. *
* ca...@inel.gov * Inside of a dog, *
* * it's too dark to read! *
* * -- Groucho Marx *
*************************************************************************
Dave Cromarty
I'm a bit less ignorant now - at least about articulated locos :)
Peter Harris
>If we are on to the subject of fairlies, does anyone know of a source of info.
>about the loco's supplied to the Mexicans around the turn of the century?
The simple answer is yes, but I'm blowed if I can remember what the
book is called ! ;-)
It's one of those oversize "World Steam Locomotives" type of books
and includes a lot of interestuing stuff. The Mexican fairlies,
the high-speed, semi-streamlined 4-6-2+2-6-4 Garrets on Algerian
railways and many others. Check out a good library.
(apologies for this unhelpful posting)
--
[] Peter Harris, Optoelectronics Network Supervisor, Southampton University []
"Sir, you will either die on the gallows or of the pox !"
"That, my Lord, depends on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress"
John Wilkes to The Earl of Sandwich, Parliament, November 1763
Peter Bendall
> In article <alan_havens-...@128.18.22.129>, alan_...@qm.sri.com (Alan Havens) writes:
> >>> >
>
> Well articulated and informative posting cut short for bandwith
>
> :> A Fairlie has 2 sets of drivers, both of which are free to swivel
> :> under a rigid frame. The Fairlie had a double boiler heated by a
> :> common firebox located in the middle of the engine.
> The Fairlie in its final version had a divided firebox because of the
> effect of one engine working harder than another drawing cold air through
> the chimney backwards (not well articulated)
> i remember this from the BBC "Steam Horse Iron Road"
All the fairlies still running on the welsh two-foot lines have divided
fireboxes for just that reason. There were also a few "single" fairlies
which had a single boiler and a four wheeled trailing bogie instead of the
second power bogie. I think they are _all_ gone.
I remember a driver telling me once that the Fairlies greatest advantage was
that the two short boilers were better on steep tracks where the water level
would too easily drop below the firebox crown on a long boiler engine.
One minor problem with the fairlies (apart from the flexible steam pipes) is
that on a small engine the driver has to make sure that his two engines are
running together - piston strokes in the same direction at the same time -
otherwise there's a "very interesting" motion on the footplate!
(There were two in steam on the same day last time I was home at Tanygrisiau!
One came down from Blaenau and half an hour later the other one came up from
the Tunnel. I didn't have my camcoder! All the Festiniog steam are now oil
burners and, IMHO as a non-smoker, the bottom end of Port(h)madoc stinks
to my nose like faulty central heating, but I suppose it's better than
having to pay children to patrol the lines in the summer to stamp out fires. )
> :> Hope this helps.
> > Alan Havens
Peter Bendall
p.s two-foot _approximately_. Two foot between the middle or the outside edges
of the rails, who knows, must be about one foot eleven and a half.
pps If anyone has been there recently - what happened to their Garrett?
---
Peter Bendall Computer Manager
European Molecular Biology Laboratory, Hamburg Outstation.
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== GAT d@(-) -p+ c+(++) l@ u-() e? m@ s+/+ n+ h?(---) f- g@(+) w+ t r y?(@) ==
Edward Harris
about the loco's supplied to the Mexicans around the turn of the century?
--
Ed Harris =8-)
Clarence
logging locomotives too, so I'll add a comment not too much off
subject, I hope.
Willamette made a locomotive almost identical to the Shay.
What were the differences? Anybody know?
And my favorite has always been the VULCAN, which looked like a
Climax or Heisler mounted on the frames of two little 0-4-0s.
The Steam cylinders were mounted towards the center of the locomotive
and both wheel sets swiveled beneath the boiler & cab.
______-
(______H
OO= =OO
Several years ago I made an attempt to scratchbuild one of these in HO.
I ended up kitbashing a Climax instead.
Tobias Benjamin Koehler
where the famous saxon IV K locos (B'B') are still in regular
service on 75 cm narrow gauge as nothing was good enough to
replace them during their almost 100 years of existence (they
were built between 1896 and 1921). They can be found on the
lines Cranzahl - Oberwiesenthal, Oschatz - Mügeln - Kemmlitz
and Radebeul - Radeburg. The future of these lines is not sure
as they will be privatized, and possibly on some steam operation
will be stopped.
toby
--
tobias benjamin köhler ,-/o"O`--.._ _/(_
_,-o'.|o 0 'O o O`o--'. e\
s_...@ira.uka.de (`o-..___..--''o:,-' )o /._" O "o 0 o : ._>
``--o___o..o.'' :'.O\_ ```--.\o .' `--
<<la propriété, `-`.,) \`.o`._
c'est le vol>> - p j proudhon pic: felix lee `-`-.,)
lima...@peg.apc.org
I cant remember who this quote is by but :-"The length of a Garratt is
only limited by the distance between stations".
Nick Leverton
>A Fairlie- picture two locomotives back to back with a common cab. The
>boilers sit on a common frame, and each set of driving wheels rotates on
>its own frame.
> ||_____|==|_____||
> __________________
> / O O O O O O \ <no tender>
Actually that's a double Fairlie. There exist, or existed, single
Fairlies too, having a single power bogie and a trailing bogie (truck)
under the cab; so Fairlie's patent clearly did not necessitate the
engine being double ended. (Or did it ? Maybe our Tal-y-Llyn contributor
can tell us ?)
Nick
anc2
>>A Fairlie- picture two locomotives back to back with a common cab. The
>>boilers sit on a common frame, and each set of driving wheels rotates
on
>>its own frame.
>Actually that's a double Fairlie. There exist, or existed, single
>Fairlies too, having a single power bogie and a trailing bogie (truck)
>under the cab; so Fairlie's patent clearly did not necessitate the
>engine being double ended. (Or did it ? Maybe our Tal-y-Llyn contributor
>can tell us ?)
The first description isn't particularly correct.
The double fairlie has a single double ended boiler, on a frame under
which pivot two power bogies.
Single fairlies did and do exist, the old North Wales Narrow gauge
railway having three, Gowrie, Snowdon Ranger and Moel Tryfan (parts of
which still exist)
The Ffestiniog had one, Taliesin, a replica of which is being
constructed as the railway's project 2000.
Others were built, such as a standard gauge example for the Midland and
South Western Junction Railway, while numerous models exist.
So, Fairlie's patent covered both single and double fairlie loco's.
Hope this is of use.
Anthony Coulls
an...@aber.ac.uk
(The Talyllyn contributor, I presume?)
William Cordes
.
. WmC
.
Christopher Marshall
>Willamette made a locomotive almost identical to the Shay.
>What were the differences? Anybody know?
Willamette Iron and Steel started making Shay locomotives
when the original patents ran out. The key differences that
will easily identify them are:
- the valve chests face outward on a Willamette while on a
Lima they face forward or back.
- Willamette used Walscherts (sp?) valve gear and Lima used
Stephenson.
Willamette made both two and three truck versions and made
versions with either slide valves or piston valves.
Chris
John Kohnen
> This thread has degenerated here and there to include discussion on
> logging locomotives too, so I'll add a comment not too much off
> subject, I hope.
>
> Willamette made a locomotive almost identical to the Shay.
> What were the differences? Anybody know?
I'll bite. The most obvious difference between a Shay and a Willamette is
the placement of the valves, on a Shay the valves are behind the
cylinders: VCVCVC like so. A Willamette has the valves on the outside, or
right side of the cylinders: C C C like so looking from above, making them
easier to service. Of course V V V the valve linkage is also different, and
I _think_ some Willamettes had piston valves, all Shays used slide valves.
There are other differences that I can't recall offhand, basically a
Willamette is a beefed up, modernized Shay for heavy-duty logging use,
built by Willamette Iron and Steel (or something very like that) in
Portland, a company that had been supplying logging equipment and repairing
logging locomotives for many years. Lima's answer to the Willamette was the
Pacific Coast Shay, which is the model most likely to be confused with it.
John <jko...@efn.org> The Eugene Free Net
Advertising may be described as the science of arresting intelligence
long enough to get money from it. <Stephen Leacock>
William Cordes
.
. WmC
.
Mike Travis U.S. Forest Service
Bonner, Montana (just E. of Missoula on i-90). There may
be others, but this is the only one I've ever seen.
mt
Christopher Marshall (mars...@zko.mts.dec.com) wrote:
: ca...@inel.gov (Clarence) asked:
M. Murray
: Richard D Manning (mann...@worf.egr.msu.edu) wrote:
: : [deletions]
:
: : |> Actually that's a double Fairlie. There exist, or existed, single
: : |> Fairlies too, having a single power bogie and a trailing bogie (truck)
: : |> under the cab; so Fairlie's patent clearly did not necessitate the
: : |> engine being double ended. (Or did it ? Maybe our Tal-y-Llyn contributor
: : |> can tell us ?)
: Fairlie's patent does cover single-ended locomotives with a single power
: bogie and one non-powered one. The only survivor I'm aware of is Torch Lake
: at the Henry Ford Museum, plus the Ffestiniog Railway (North Wales) is
: building an updated version of its former 0-4-4T Taliesin, scrapped in the
: 1930s - not to be confused with the double Fairlie now renamed Livingston
: Thompson, which bore the name Taliesin from the 1930s to 1961. Single
: Fairlies were popular with those who worked them, but cost more to build and
: maintain than a rigid loco of the same size and wheel arrangement.
: Ben Fisher
: mls...@bangor.ac.uk
There is a 3'6" Single Fairlie (0-6-4T, better C'2't) preserved in New
Zealand, near Greymouth in the South Island. From memory the town is
Masterton or something similar. I could find out at home, as I
photographed it in December 1980.
--
Martin Murray :: School of Chemistry, Bristol University, BS8 1TS, England
John Kohnen
tra...@hammel.qal.berkeley.edu (Mike Travis U.S. Forest Service) wrote:
> There's a Willamette on static display in a city park in
> Bonner, Montana (just E. of Missoula on i-90). There may
> be others, but this is the only one I've ever seen.
>
There is (or was) a Willamette on display in Forks, Washington.
> mt
>
>
> Christopher Marshall (mars...@zko.mts.dec.com) wrote:
> : ca...@inel.gov (Clarence) asked:
>
> : >Willamette made a locomotive almost identical to the Shay.
> : >What were the differences? Anybody know?
>
> : Willamette Iron and Steel started making Shay locomotives
> : when the original patents ran out. The key differences that
> : will easily identify them are:
> : - the valve chests face outward on a Willamette while on a
> : Lima they face forward or back.
> : - Willamette used Walscherts (sp?) valve gear and Lima used
> : Stephenson.
>
> : Willamette made both two and three truck versions and made
> : versions with either slide valves or piston valves.
>
> : Chris
>
John <jko...@efn.org> The Eugene Free Net
Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless they meet two conditions:
1. He is a Greek
2. He is a Fisherman <Roy Blount Jr.>
M. Murray
: On 10 Mar 1995 18:53:47 GMT
: tra...@hammel.qal.berkeley.edu (Mike Travis U.S. Forest Service) wrote:
: > There's a Willamette on static display in a city park in
: > Bonner, Montana (just E. of Missoula on i-90). There may
: > be others, but this is the only one I've ever seen.
: >
: There is (or was) a Willamette on display in Forks, Washington.
Rather than quote individual locos, why not turn to Wes Barris's
list of preserved US steam locos on his www site at
http://www.arc.umn.edu/~wes/steam.html
He lists 7 preserved Willamettes, though my info says the loco at
Vernonia OR is a Shay, Lima 2490. The loco at Forks is a Lima Shay too.