Uploads to wuarchive.wustl.edu
Denise Pullen
wuarchive.wustl.edu in /graphics/trains/jpeg:
jpeg3.zip MS-DOS jpeg compression/decompression program for XT/AT's.
jpeg3386.zip MS-DOS jpeg compression/decompression program for
386/486's.
jpegsrc.v3.tar.Z cjpeg/djpeg compilable source code for UNIX and MS-DOS.
stewart l dejournett
>I have uploaded the following files for anonymous ftp from
>wuarchive.wustl.edu in /graphics/trains/jpeg:
Can someone tell me why the train files are stored in JPG format. In the JPG
format you lose image quality. Also, in /graphics/gif/... al the files ARE
store in GIF format so I don't feel space is the main consideration since there
are 1000+ files in /graphics/gif
Thanks
stewart
Earl Waldin
|>
|> Can someone tell me why the train files are stored in JPG format. In the JPG
|> format you lose image quality. Also, in /graphics/gif/... al the files ARE
|> store in GIF format so I don't feel space is the main consideration since there
|> are 1000+ files in /graphics/gif
|>
As has been pointed out in other picture-oriented groups, BOTH gif and jpg
are "lossy" formats. The human eye is capable of distinguishing between
thousands of colors. A 24-bit color scanner does a good job of representing
a picture because it allows 2^24 colors. However, a 24-bit color image
requires 3 to 5 _megabytes_ of storage, depending on its size and resolution.
Exising loss-less compression techniques will only give you about a
factor of 2, which still leaves you with mult-megabyte images.
Gif is an 8-bit color format, so it only has 2^8 = 256 colors.
Conversion to gif requires losing a lot of color information. To get
some of this back, conversion uses a process called dithering to trade
off resolution for color. There are a number of algorithms for
eliminating colors and dithering.
Jpg takes a different approach. It performs a two-dimensional transform
somewhat akin to a Fourier transform. It then "smooths" some of the high
frequency components (kind of like a low-pass filter does). The result is
then compressed using run-length encoding (which does not lose any more
information). A good-quality jpg image is about a factor of 10-20 smaller
than the original 24-bit image.
If you start with a 24-bit image, then jpg gives a better quality picture
for less storage. A jpg image requires about 2 to 5 times less storage
than an equivalent gif image. Jpg also allows you to "tweak" the loss, so
you can determine how much quality to give up in order to reduce the storage.
If you start with a gif file (which has already lost information) and then
compress it further with jpg, then you may or may not wind up with a lower
quality picture. My experience with some of the train pictures posted earlier
is that many images are just as good as the original gif, but take half the
storage or less. Some pictures get totally botched.
I believe it depends on the specific algorithm used to create the gif file
in the first place.
In short, JPG is better if you compress the originally scanned image.
If you only have a gif image, then JPG will probably give you the same
quality as the gif, but save on storage. Some experimentation and
tweaking is required to determine if it is worth jpg'ing a gif file.
One logistical problem with jpg is that when you decompress it, you have
to convert it for viewing on your monitor, which probably only allows
256 colors. The quality of the result depends a lot on the software
you use to view the picture on your monitor. Most of the unix
software out there (like xv) do a very good job of this. I can't speak
for Macs or PCs.
Another inconvienence is that decompressing a jpg image for viewing requires
a lot of CPU power. A high-end workstation (like a Dec-station 5000) takes
around 5-10 seconds. A PC would probably require minutes.
Conversion for viewing is not a problem for gifs because they already
use (at most) 256 colors.
Earl Waldin
wal...@lcs.mit.edu
31o...@gw.wmich.edu
Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Denise said earlier that
she was only given so much space, and she could use the space better if they
were converted to JPG format. I personally like and recommend JPG, all
our files at this university are in JPG except for cartoon GIF's which
don't compress well with JPG, they are usually as big or even larger.
I think the files looked great. I downloaded all the diesel, and the
caboose and rolling stock files and looked at them on a SPARC IPC
computer. We use X windows and have a program downloaded from an FTP site
called XV controls, it can handle many different formats, including JPG,
GIF,sun raster, and can also convert one to Postscript. You can also
take one and save it in any other format that it can handle.
Also, talking about the compression, I took one of the files that were
out earlier...the one with X3985 Union Pacific challenger, and I believe
it was around 500K, with JPG it was 100K or less, and I couldn't hardly
notice any change at all. Pretty good when you have disk quota's to
deal with. :^(
oh well, just my $.02 worth
Fred Ochs
31O...@gw.wmich.edu (VAX)
oc...@sol.cs.wmich.edu (UNIX)
_________________________________________________________________________
_______________
/_______________\__+--+_---_+--+__
___|[ ]| ###| ### ######|###### |
| | ______| | | |
|_|/|_|___|____|______________________|_|
H \--/ \ \o/ o / \--/ H
___"__O----O__`---------------'__O----O__"_____
A GP30 with some imagination ;^)
Denise Pullen
wuarchive.wu.. by stewart l dejournett@mks
> Can someone tell me why the train files are stored in JPG format. In the
> JPG format you lose image quality. Also, in /graphics/gif/... al the
> files ARE store in GIF format so I don't feel space is the main
> consideration since there are 1000+ files in /graphics/gif
It's simple. I use the format as I call into my unix account via 2400
bps modem. Would you want to upload several megs of files at that rate?
Space is ALWAYS a consideration for me as well as speed. I have
decompressed many of the files myself and don't see a big problem with
the resolution. At least not compated to the amount of time it takes
between uploading a .jpg and a .gif. I am doing this as a service, not a
life's work.
Denise Pullen
> called XV controls, it can handle many different formats, including JPG,
> GIF,sun raster, and can also convert one to Postscript. You can also
Thank you very much for explaining this issue. I also appreciate the
above information as I have received many questions about it and did not
know the answer until now. I am also limited by my 2400 bps connect rate
with makes uploading original .gif's impossible. All the files that I
make are scanned by myself and are compressed from original .gif files.
Loss should be minimal. Thanks again for you input!
Denise Pullen
don't use the .jpg format to slight anyone out of any bytes of
information. It's just a time thing. Thanks again!
Lisa Neal
Hello all....... I have loved trains for a long time, and I
have chosen Amtrak time and time again for my traveling needs instead of
flying. For a while now, I have been curious about some things on
Amtrak and railroading in general, and from what I can see, there are
many experts here to ask. Forgive me if people have asked these
questions before, but I am new to this bulletin board. Here goes.......
_______________________________________________________________
* Why are there no double deck Amtrak trains in the eastern part of
the U.S.? I have heard only two theories about this: 1) The east coast
lines have low tunnels and underpasses that would be impossible for
double deck trains to fit through, and 2) The east coast lines are
generally of shorter length than the western routes, thus it is wiser to
have only the more comfortable double deckers for the western long
distance travel.
* On every western train, about two-thirds of AmtrakUs coach cars
are the modern, comfortable Superliners. However, the remaining one
third are the unpleasant, ugly, and very uncomfortable older cars. Why
doesn't Amtrak convert its entire fleet to the Superliners? It seems
unfair that two passengers that pay the same price could be given two
very different cars to spend their journey on.
* (Probably the most important question) I am going on a cross-
country Amtrak trip in two weeks, and I have purchased a scanner,
primarily so I will be able to listen to the engineer and the rest of
the crew, such as people have discribed in messages past, so I will be
able to know "what the hell is going on", a frustrating thing when the
crew won't give me a straight answer as to why we have been on a siding
for 3 hours in a row at night! I would be indebted to any of you if
you could give me the best frequencies to hear the crew on each of these
four routes:
Northeast Corridor[Night Owl] (Boston- D.C.)
Capitol Limited (D.C.- Chicago)
Empire Builder (Chicago - Seattle)
Coast Starlight (Seattle - L.A.)
If not, please tell me if there is a railroad
scanner book I could buy, and where.
* Aside from the proposed extension of the Sunset Limited to Miami,
are there any other route changes planned for Amtrak?
* I was on the Southwest Chief last summer, and the conductor was
showing off a hardcover, 200 page, full color book on Amtrak and each of
its routes. For some reason, I didn't ask him about it. Have any of
you heard of it, and if so, what is it called, and where can I order it?
* When I was passing through the Albany station several weeks ago,
I saw the Turboliner fleet maintenence station. I was impressed, but a
fellow passenger told me they were just cosmetically different from the
other Amtrak trains. Can it really achieve "turbo" speeds, or is it
just a sleeker, more modern-looking train with no different performance?
(Now, on to some railroad trivia)
* How is the position of railroad switches changed? Do people have
to go out and switch them by hand, or are they thrown electrically from
a central dispatch station?
* How does the dispatch station know where the trains are? Is it
just by the engineer notifying them, or is it done by some computerized
system in the track?
Much thanks in advance to anyone who answers, especially with
info about the frequencies!
Jonathan Neal
stewart l dejournett
>In article <1992Jul30....@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, sde...@mksol.dseg.ti.com (stewart l dejournett) writes:
>|> Can someone tell me why the train files are stored in JPG format. In the JPG
>
>As has been pointed out in other picture-oriented groups, BOTH gif and jpg
>are "lossy" formats. The human eye is capable of distinguishing between
>
>Gif is an 8-bit color format, so it only has 2^8 = 256 colors.
>
>In short, JPG is better if you compress the originally scanned image.
>Another inconvienence is that decompressing a jpg image for viewing requires
>a lot of CPU power. A high-end workstation (like a Dec-station 5000) takes
>around 5-10 seconds. A PC would probably require minutes.
>
>Conversion for viewing is not a problem for gifs because they already
>use (at most) 256 colors.
This is the REAL reason I was complaining. I have downloaded ALL of the
train GIF's off of JDB.PSU.EDU and have displayed them on a PC using VPIC
they are displayed in NO time on the 486. However my JPEG viewer takes SEVERAL
minutes and two passes at that and they are not in color. I know 256 colors
is not 24 bit color but its pretty good. I can appreciate the fact that
if you are using a modem JPG is better so how about a compromise have both
formats on line. I know it's more disk space but I'm not sure what the best
solution is since it takes SOOO long to view a JPEG??
stewart de journett
stewart l dejournett
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.railroad: 30-Jul-92 Re: Uploads to
>wuarchive.wu.. by stewart l dejournett@mks
>
>between uploading a .jpg and a .gif. I am doing this as a service, not a
>life's work.
I sorry if I ruffled you feathers I really do appreiate the service you are
preforming. My problem is that on a 486 PC it takes less than 10 seconds to
display a color GIF and several minutes to display a black and white JPG.
Just venting fustration I was not meaning to offend.
stewart
Garth G. Groff
Here Are Answers To Some Of Your Amtrak Questions. I Don'T
Guarantee They Are The Right Answers. They'Re Just What I
have heard or read, plus some outrageous opinion.
Your statement about Superliners being restricted from the
east by low tunnels is conventional wisdom, though it
probably isn't accurate for all lines (they fit autoracks
through those tunnels). As for comfort, I can't see much
difference. Seats are the same in most AMTRAK cars (with
maybe the exception of the really old "Heritage Fleet" cars,
which I haven't ridden in for years). IMO the seats are
about as comfortable as airline seats, though there is at
least generous leg room. The double-deck cars are subject
to more sway (though they are better than the old Santa Fe
doubles).
As for replacement of older cars, the reason they are still
running is money, pure and simple. AMTRAK is still subsidized
by your tax dollars (though profits keep rising and the
break-even point is in sight). Thus money for new equipment
is hard to come by. All of the older cars have been rebuilt
since AMTRAK inherited them from the original owners, and
are fairly comfortable. In fact, they may actually ride better
than newer cars. Of course, some older cars are getting
shabby and are nearing the ends of the useful lives, but they
will probably be around a few years more. Many of us like
the "Heritage Fleet" cars and don't think they are ugly. We
may even be able to overlook the shabbiness and discomfort
as they break down for a bit of old-fashioned nostalgia. It's
all in how you look at things.
As for the other answers, I'll let those with more info comment.
Hope you enjoy your trip. Remember, even the inconveniences are
part of the adventure.
~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
gg...@poe.acc.virginia.EDU Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
Peter Brown
* Why are there no double deck Amtrak trains in the eastern part of
the U.S.? I have heard only two theories about this: 1) The east coast
lines have low tunnels and underpasses that would be impossible for
double deck trains to fit through, and 2) The east coast lines are
generally of shorter length than the western routes, thus it is wiser to
have only the more comfortable double deckers for the western long
distance travel.
The clearance argument is at least part of the reason. The Northeast
Corridor, for example, has 11kV electrical wires over the tracks,
so the equipment can't be too high. Other Eastern roads do tend to
have closer clearances (bridges, tunnels) than Western ones, and
expanding clearances is expensive.
* On every western train, about two-thirds of AmtrakUs coach cars
are the modern, comfortable Superliners. However, the remaining one
third are the unpleasant, ugly, and very uncomfortable older cars. Why
doesn't Amtrak convert its entire fleet to the Superliners? It seems
unfair that two passengers that pay the same price could be given two
very different cars to spend their journey on.
This certainly isn't true of _every_ western train; on the trips my
wife and I took last summer and this, it wasn't true of _any_ of the
western trains we rode (a total of six trains, all over the West), nor
did I see other trains with lots of non-Superliner coaches when we
were out there. A couple of trains had one of the older coaches, and
one at least one of those, that coach was marked as crew space. How
recently have you experienced this?
* I was on the Southwest Chief last summer, and the conductor was
showing off a hardcover, 200 page, full color book on Amtrak and each of
its routes. For some reason, I didn't ask him about it. Have any of
you heard of it, and if so, what is it called, and where can I order it?
I have not heard of _that_ book; I have heard of (and own) a book
called _Rail Ventures_, published by the Wayfinder Press, P.O. Box
1877, Ouray, CO 81427, which gives a reasonably reliable trackside
guide to each of Amtrak's routes (as they existed in 1990, unless
they've updated it). I bought it in Denver Union Station, from a shop
that no longer carries it, but the book says you can get it directly
from Wayfinder. (No, I have no connection with Wayfinder - I couldn't
even promise you they still exist.) My wife and I have used it on
each of our trips, as a supplement to Amtrak's route guides; it's been
very helpful in that role.
* When I was passing through the Albany station several weeks ago,
I saw the Turboliner fleet maintenence station. I was impressed, but a
fellow passenger told me they were just cosmetically different from the
other Amtrak trains. Can it really achieve "turbo" speeds, or is it
just a sleeker, more modern-looking train with no different performance?
There are actually mechanical differences between Turboliners and
other Amtrak trains, the most striking of which is that a Turboliner
is powered by a gas turbine; other Amtrak trains use diesel engines or
electric power. I don't know what exactly this translates to in terms
of performance.
I'm afraid I don't know about the frequencies.
(Now, on to some railroad trivia)
* How is the position of railroad switches changed? Do people have
to go out and switch them by hand, or are they thrown electrically from
a central dispatch station?
Both types exist. Which is used in a particular case depends on how
the railroad uses that particular switch: for example, it would be
important to have central control of a switch that is routing mainline
traffic, but a switch which is off on an industrial track somewhere
and is only used when switching the area can be left manual, since the
train doing the switching has to carry a brakeman anyway.
* How does the dispatch station know where the trains are? Is it
just by the engineer notifying them, or is it done by some computerized
system in the track?
Again, lots of ways exist. A short line that only runs one train at a
time may have no way of telling where the train is, except maybe a
radio. A heavily-travelled main line with either automatic or
centrally controlled signals generally has some form of automatic
train detection in the track.
Hope this helps,
--Peter (bro...@cs.unc.edu)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent
his Son to be the atoning sacrifice for our sins." - I John 4:10
Dave Pierson
writes, in part:
>Hello all....... I have loved trains for a long time, and I
>have chosen Amtrak time and time again for my traveling needs instead of
>flying.
>* On every western train, about two-thirds of AmtrakUs coach cars
>are the modern, comfortable Superliners. However, the remaining one
>third are the unpleasant, ugly, and very uncomfortable older cars. Why
>doesn't Amtrak convert its entire fleet to the Superliners? It seems
>unfair that two passengers that pay the same price could be given two
>very different cars to spend their journey on.
The new cars cost money. AMTRAK doesn't have a lot. Also, the US
passenger car buiilding capability is somewhat limited...
>* (Probably the most important question) I am going on a cross-
>country Amtrak trip in two weeks, and I have purchased a scanner,
>primarily so I will be able to listen to the engineer and the rest of
>the crew, such as people have discribed in messages past, so I will be
>able to know "what the hell is going on", a frustrating thing when the
>crew won't give me a straight answer as to why we have been on a siding
>for 3 hours in a row at night! I would be indebted to any of you if
>you could give me the best frequencies to hear the crew on each of these
>four routes:
Most modern scanners have the ability to search, so search for half an
hour or so. I reccomend a set of featherweight (or other) headphones.
>Northeast Corridor[Night Owl] (Boston- D.C.)
Several. 160.920(?) 160.800 161.070. Others.
>Capitol Limited (D.C.- Chicago)
>Empire Builder (Chicago - Seattle)
>Coast Starlight (Seattle - L.A.)
>If not, please tell me if there is a railroad
>scanner book I could buy, and where.
There are, dunno where best to reccomend. Many are regional, not suited
to your purpose. I reccomend search_ing with the scanner. Essentially
all traffic will be between (roughly) 160.5 and 161.5.
>* When I was passing through the Albany station several weeks ago,
>I saw the Turboliner fleet maintenence station. I was impressed, but a
>fellow passenger told me they were just cosmetically different from the
>other Amtrak trains.
The "fellow passenger" was wrong or misinformed. They are totally
different in body and power (gas turbine("jet engine"))
>Can it really achieve "turbo" speeds, or is it
>just a sleeker, more modern-looking train with no different performance?
Fast, not that much faster.
>* How is the position of railroad switches changed? Do people have
>to go out and switch them by hand, or are they thrown electrically from
>a central dispatch station?
Both. Frequently used switches, and switches in "main lines" are
commonly remote controlled, either froma local interlocking tower or
from a CTC (Centralized Traffic Control) machine. The technology is
changing/computerizing with more and more centralization of control in
one place. Speeds operation and improves safety (so long as fail-safe
is done right...). System is fail-safe agains com line failures, etc.
Seldom used switches are manually thrown, with significant ones tied
into the CTC (or equivalent) so the dispatcher can see what is going
on. Sometimes the DS can "lock out" the local control.
>* How does the dispatch station know where the trains are? Is it
>just by the engineer notifying them, or is it done by some computerized
>system in the track?
Varies. Most common is by track circuits, in which the train indicates
occupancy of a "block" by shorting the rails together. This gets
"datagrammed" to the CTC center. (short hand, simplified description).
A couple of newer techniques, where the loco spots trackside beacons
and counts axle revs to keep track of position, which gets radioed to
central are coming on line. And sometimes the enginner (or trackside
tower operator) just:
"calls clear of location mumblefratz"
thanks
dave pierson |the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation |the opinions, my own.
146 Main Street |I am the NRA.
Maynard, Mass
01754 pie...@cimnet.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing." A J Raffles
31o...@gw.wmich.edu
> [some text deleted]
>
> * Why are there no double deck Amtrak trains in the eastern part of
> the U.S.? I have heard only two theories about this: 1) The east coast
> lines have low tunnels and underpasses that would be impossible for
> double deck trains to fit through, and 2) The east coast lines are
> generally of shorter length than the western routes, thus it is wiser to
> have only the more comfortable double deckers for the western long
> distance travel.
Well, I've heard this too, at least the part about the tunnels. I never
see them on the Capitol or the Lakeshore Limited, so maybe this is the
case. As far as long distance, this isn't always a consideration. I've
seen Superliners many times, especially on weekends, on the Pere Marquette,
which only runs from Chicago to Grand Rapids. Sometimes, they grab whatever
is available.
>
> * On every western train, about two-thirds of AmtrakUs coach cars
> are the modern, comfortable Superliners. However, the remaining one
> third are the unpleasant, ugly, and very uncomfortable older cars. Why
> doesn't Amtrak convert its entire fleet to the Superliners? It seems
> unfair that two passengers that pay the same price could be given two
> very different cars to spend their journey on.
Superliners are very expensive, and also, Budd who made them(I think they made
Superliners) went out of business. I heard that Bomberdier(sp.) is making them
in Canada for Amtrak to replace much of their heritage equipment.
>
> * (Probably the most important question) I am going on a cross-
> country Amtrak trip in two weeks, and I have purchased a scanner,
> primarily so I will be able to listen to the engineer and the rest of
> the crew, such as people have discribed in messages past, so I will be
> able to know "what the hell is going on", a frustrating thing when the
> crew won't give me a straight answer as to why we have been on a siding
> for 3 hours in a row at night! I would be indebted to any of you if
> you could give me the best frequencies to hear the crew on each of these
> four routes:
>
> Northeast Corridor[Night Owl] (Boston- D.C.)
> Capitol Limited (D.C.- Chicago)
> Empire Builder (Chicago - Seattle)
> Coast Starlight (Seattle - L.A.)
Well, I can give you some of the frequencies for the Capitol Ltd.
On Conrail leaving Chicago, you will want 160.800 and 161.07
160.800 is Conrail's main road channel, and you will hear the crew talking
to the dispatcher, you will hear other trains, hot box and dragging equipment
detectors, and other chatter too. 161.07 I think is the other channel available
for switching and stuff.
When they get on CSX(wherever that is now, since they changed the Capitol's
route) you will want CSX 1 and 2, which are 160.230 and 160.320
160.320 is the road channel, and you will hear the crew announcing the
signal aspects over the radio(required by CSX rules) and you will hear any
kind of talk between the engineer, and conductor. You will also hear hotbox
and dragging equipment detectors. The dispatcher will call the train on this
channel of he/she wants to get ahold of them. The train is supposed to moniter/
use channel 1, and if they need to get ahold of the dispatcher, they go to
channel 2, and call him, provided that noone else is using it at the time.
>
> If not, please tell me if there is a railroad
> scanner book I could buy, and where.
There is a book out there that lists frequencies by state, but I can't remember
what it's called.
>
> * Aside from the proposed extension of the Sunset Limited to Miami,
> are there any other route changes planned for Amtrak?
>
> * I was on the Southwest Chief last summer, and the conductor was
> showing off a hardcover, 200 page, full color book on Amtrak and each of
> its routes. For some reason, I didn't ask him about it. Have any of
> you heard of it, and if so, what is it called, and where can I order it?
>
> * When I was passing through the Albany station several weeks ago,
> I saw the Turboliner fleet maintenence station. I was impressed, but a
> fellow passenger told me they were just cosmetically different from the
> other Amtrak trains. Can it really achieve "turbo" speeds, or is it
> just a sleeker, more modern-looking train with no different performance?
I think it reaches speeds of over 125MPH, but I'm not really sure, I've
never seen it.
>
> (Now, on to some railroad trivia)
> * How is the position of railroad switches changed? Do people have
> to go out and switch them by hand, or are they thrown electrically from
> a central dispatch station?
Most switches on passing sidings/crossovers/interlockings are electrically
operated and most of them time are controlled at the central dispatch
station, or else the local block/tower operator
Grand Trunk still uses manual crossovers, which is a pain when you don't
have a caboose, because the crew either has to leave the crossover in the
position when they used it and let the next train switch it back, or else
a crew member has to switch it back, and walk all the way back to the
head of the train. I've heard that they are now converting all their
manual crossovers to power ones too.,
>
> * How does the dispatch station know where the trains are? Is it
> just by the engineer notifying them, or is it done by some computerized
> system in the track?
If the track is CTC or a similar setup, the tracks are broken up into
OS sections, which are the sections of track at the power switches, and
blocks, which are the sections between the OS sections. The dispatcher
can watch a train travel across these OS and block sections, and can
actually time them as they go by OS sections to find out how fast they
are going. If it is a manual block system, or "dark territory"(dark
territory is a system where there is no automatic block system, and trains
are dispatched using track warrants, or train orders) the dispatcher
will frequently ask the trains where their location is. Again, Grand Trunk
has many places that are manual block, and the dispatcher has no idea
where they are at, he askes them and keeps track of them that way.
Hope this helps ya,
Joseph Brennan
(Lisa Neal) [or Jonathan Neal] writes:
>* Why are there no double deck Amtrak trains in the eastern part of
>the U.S.? I have heard only two theories about this: 1) The east coast
>lines have low tunnels and underpasses that would be impossible for
>double deck trains to fit through
That's the reason. Someone has pointed out correctly that tall
freight cars get to the east, but they can only travel on certain
routes. Some of the main passenger tracks have restrictions, among
them numerous points under the Northeast Corridor's 11kv electric
wires. For example, the wire barely clears normal-height trains
through the Penn Station tunnels at New York. Penn is probably the
"ruling height", that is, other structures are allowed to be that low
since trains would have to be low enough to pass Penn Station anyway.
Historically, the Pennsylvania Railroad had run-through passenger cars
with so many other eastern roads that they all adopted that height as
the maximum for passenger cars too (PRR wasn't called "The Standard
Railroad of the World" for nothing).
>* When I was passing through the Albany station several weeks ago,
>I saw the Turboliner fleet maintenence station. I was impressed, but a
>fellow passenger told me they were just cosmetically different from the
>other Amtrak trains. Can it really achieve "turbo" speeds, or is it
>just a sleeker, more modern-looking train with no different performance?
It's mechanically different. The word "turbo" somehow conveys the
notion of great speed, but in that sense they're merely as fast as
anything else Amtrak would run there.
>* How is the position of railroad switches changed? Do people have
>to go out and switch them by hand, or are they thrown electrically from
>a central dispatch station?
Switches on mainlines that are regularly moved in the course of a day
are usually remotely controlled. The oldest system was mechanical--
ever see a picture of a towerman using all his weight on a huge lever
coming up from the floor-- it pulled a bar that pulled a bar... that
moved the switch. The next step, 1890's I think, was to run pipes to
the switch and use pneumatic pressure to move the switch; the pump is
often located near the switch. There are still some pneumatic
switches in the New York subway and you can hear the pumps chugging
away periodically to keep pressure in the line. Not much later they
began to use small electric motors to move the switch. In the 1950's
(?) they began to centralize control to fewer sites, using electronics
for the first time.
A very important part about all these systems, even the mechanical
ones, is that the switches and signals in an area are interlocked, and
the controls are called an interlocking for that reason. As a simple
example, you have to set the signals (both directions) to red before
the system will let you move the switch. This can get fiercely
complicated where there are multiple switches and crossovers. The
most modern ones are computerized, so the system itself can, using the
same example, set signals to red and then move the switch, at one
command.
Switches that aren't used so often, or on branch lines, are, on the
other hand, usually hand-thrown on site. A tool is used, a long
lever, so the crewperson can use body weight to move it. Crews on
local freights normally move many switches per day this way.
>* How does the dispatch station know where the trains are? Is it
>just by the engineer notifying them, or is it done by some computerized
>system in the track?
Where the dispatching is centralized, some sort of electronic system
is used so the staff can see where the trains are. Typically it's a
large diagram of the tracks with lights showing where trains are.
They might still need radio to identify what train it is. This system
began in the 1950's I think. At the older type of installation, the
interlockings had to be in sight of the switches so the crew could
eyeball what train was coming.
--Joe Brennan
George Robbins
Doesn't your viewer have an option to store the decoded images? This would
be the best compromise, since you "pay" once to acess the images and after
that it would be quick retrieval. Beyond this, it's just a matter of sharing
the pain - your slow view against others upload/download time and storage
burden.
--
George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing: domain: g...@cbmvax.commodore.com
Commodore, Engineering Department phone: 215-431-9349 (only by moonlite)
CZ94
>
>I have not heard of _that_ book; I have heard of (and own) a book
>called _Rail Ventures_, published by the Wayfinder Press, P.O. Box
>1877, Ouray, CO 81427, which gives a reasonably reliable trackside
>guide to each of Amtrak's routes (as they existed in 1990, unless
>they've updated it). I bought it in Denver Union Station, from a shop
>that no longer carries it, but the book says you can get it directly
>from Wayfinder. (No, I have no connection with Wayfinder - I couldn't
>even promise you they still exist.) My wife and I have used it on
>each of our trips, as a supplement to Amtrak's route guides; it's been
>very helpful in that role.
>
I can claim some very slight connection with this book. When
reading the 1988 edition, I noticed a lot of errors (mostly typos
and similar minor things) in the section on Canada (the book covers
passenger train routes in Canada (VIA, QNS&L, Ontario Northland,
Algoma Central, BC Rail) as well as the USA, and has some more limited
information on Mexico). I sent a list of corrections to the author at
the above address. He incorporated these corrections in the latest
edition, and sent me a free copy.
Tom Box
CZ...@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
Rich Hill
> * I was on the Southwest Chief last summer, and the conductor was
> showing off a hardcover, 200 page, full color book on Amtrak and each of
> its routes. For some reason, I didn't ask him about it. Have any of
> you heard of it, and if so, what is it called, and where can I order it?
>
>I have not heard of _that_ book; I have heard of (and own) a book
>called _Rail Ventures_, published by the Wayfinder Press, P.O. Box
>1877, Ouray, CO 81427, which gives a reasonably reliable trackside
>guide to each of Amtrak's routes (as they existed in 1990, unless
>they've updated it). I bought it in Denver Union Station, from a shop
>that no longer carries it, but the book says you can get it directly
>from Wayfinder. (No, I have no connection with Wayfinder - I couldn't
>even promise you they still exist.) My wife and I have used it on
>each of our trips, as a supplement to Amtrak's route guides; it's been
>very helpful in that role.
>
I've seen this book in a few bookstores and, unfortunately, it seems to have
quite a few errors. I quickly checked the area I was most familiar with
(Sacramento to Oakland) and the two major things mentioned in the book were
dead wrong. The book says the Yolo causeway was constructed at great expense
to the taxpayer so that the farming of rice could take place beneath it.
No mention is made of this actually being a flood control system (they don't
grow much rice here either). Another error concerns the Mothball Fleet in
Suisun Bay. Rail Ventures refers to this as a bunch of old boats waiting to be
towed to Sacramento to be scrapped. While these boats may be scrapped someday,
the reason for them being in the Suisun Bay is supposedly so they can be put
back into service in times of need (the feasibility of this has been in question
for quite some time). No mention is made of this "fleet's" real purpose.
In addition, Sacramento has no major shipyard or other facilty capable of
scapping these things!
These may be minor problems with the book or they may point out a lack of
general research. Does anyone know if these are just flukes or are there
other errors in this book?
Dave Pierson
bre...@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan) writes, in part:
>>* How does the dispatch station know where the trains are? Is it
>>just by the engineer notifying them, or is it done by some computerized
>>system in the track?
>
>Where the dispatching is centralized, some sort of electronic system
>is used so the staff can see where the trains are. Typically it's a
>large diagram of the tracks with lights showing where trains are.
>They might still need radio to identify what train it is.
Usually, in the US, there is no idea which train it is. The modern
systems are rectifying this, with on board CPUs taling "data" to
central (which now is likely to be packed with VDU's, in addition
to the wall sized mimic board.)
The UK (for one) was well in advance of the US on having "train
describers", where the train number was displayed along the
occupied block. I believe this was originally strictly "by hand",
in that a towerman would phone/signal "train XXX" and this would be
set up on the board, then migrated along electromechanically.
>This system began in the 1950's I think.
CTC dates to the 20's, mimic boards to before that, tho earlier they
were confined to the are controlled by one tower. Basically a light
lit in each block, if it was occupied (though its easy enough to have
one color on for occupied, another for unoccupied, etc...) The lights
were driven from the track circuits.
thanks
dave pierson |the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation |the opinions, my own.
146 Main Street
Denise Pullen
wuarchive.wu.. by stewart l dejournett@mks
> formats on line. I know it's more disk space but I'm not sure what the
> best solution is since it takes SOOO long to view a JPEG??
I'm sorry Stewart, I don't see this as a compromise on my end as I'm the
one who has to upload the set of originals at 2400 baud. It's not
feasible for me at all. If someone uploads a .gif file I will not
compress it. But my personal files will continue in the .jpg format. I
can only suggest that you decompress all the files on your end to .gif
format then you will only be affected by the time factor once vesus
using a slow jpeg viewer.
Denise Pullen
wuarchive.wu.. by stewart l dejournett@mks
> preforming. My problem is that on a 486 PC it takes less than 10 seconds to
> display a color GIF and several minutes to display a black and white JPG.
> Just venting fustration I was not meaning to offend.
My plummage is just fine. I perhaps came on a little strong and I
apologize for that also. I just wanted to give all the various reasons
why your request was impossible for me to fill at this time. .GIF's take
no time to display on my 386/25 either and several minutes with jpeg.
Again, I suggest that you use the JPEG3386 program which I have placed
in the trains/jpeg subdir and decompress them. That way you will have a
set of .gifs to view instead of .jpg's.
Randy Lambertus
I have converted the 3 .voc sounds to Macintosh format. If anyone
is interested in these for their computer drop me a line and I'll
send them to you. I have 'stuffed' and 'binhexed' them, so you'll
need Unstuffit to restore them.
These three files are the ones on JDB.PSU.EDU, and consist of
two amtrack f40ph samples, and one illinois central geep sample.
Randy Lambertus Cray Research, Inc. r...@uk.cray.com
Terry Fry
>* (Probably the most important question) I am going on a cross-
>country Amtrak trip in two weeks, and I have purchased a scanner,
>primarily so I will be able to listen to the engineer and the rest of
>the crew, such as people have discribed in messages past, so I will be
>able to know "what the hell is going on", a frustrating thing when the
>crew won't give me a straight answer as to why we have been on a siding
>for 3 hours in a row at night! I would be indebted to any of you if
>you could give me the best frequencies to hear the crew on each of these
>four routes:
>
>Northeast Corridor[Night Owl] (Boston- D.C.)
North East Corridor Mainline 160.920
Station Services 160.650
These are active along the entire route from D.C. to Boston.
CONRAIL can also be heard on 160.800 for freight movments.
>(Now, on to some railroad trivia)
>* How is the position of railroad switches changed? Do people have
>to go out and switch them by hand, or are they thrown electrically from
>a central dispatch station?
Thrown from a dispatch station, mostly electricly, sometimes air
is used.
>
>* How does the dispatch station know where the trains are? Is it
>just by the engineer notifying them, or is it done by some computerized
>system in the track?
The dispatcher can "know" where the train is by asking the engineer,
if the system can detect the position he can use that, or something
done on NS & what's left of the RF&P, the engineers read of the signal
block names when they pass under them, if it goes under the signal
block at Powel (Manassas, VA) the engineer would simply anounce on the
main channel, "NS204 clear signal at Powel." While I suppose it has
a functional reason behind it, it certianly helps us railfans.
John Mosbarger
Frequencies you'll need on the Coast Starlight:
BN: 161.100
161.160 (Seattle-Portland)
SP: 160.320
161.550 (Portland-LA)
--
John Mosbarger
HP McMinnville, OR
jo...@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com
Denise Pullen
wuarchive.wustl.edu:
graphics/trains/text:
chessie.signals
csx.readme
csx.roster
readme.rr
sbd.signals
signals.readme
graphics/trains/diesel:
jrlap.gif
jrlap1.gif
perm2.gif
sf.gif
spfe.gif
sp7.gif
up1.gif
The text file readme.rr gives details relating to the above .gif files.
Bill Kepner
>> * On every western train, about two-thirds of AmtrakUs coach cars
>> are the modern, comfortable Superliners. However, the remaining one
>> third are the unpleasant, ugly, and very uncomfortable older cars. Why
>> doesn't Amtrak convert its entire fleet to the Superliners? It seems
>> unfair that two passengers that pay the same price could be given two
>> very different cars to spend their journey on.
>Superliners are very expensive, and also, Budd who made them(I think they made
>Superliners) went out of business. I heard that Bomberdier(sp.) is making them
>in Canada for Amtrak to replace much of their heritage equipment.
I'm not sure which specific trains you are refering to, but I haven't seen
any Amtrak trains in the Western part of the country that routinely mix
Superliners and older equipment. Exception: All long distance trains will
have conventional baggage cars with a ex-Santa Fe hi-level "transition" car
(part of a group of 50 or so cars (I think) originally built for the
El Capitain in the late 50's. Santa Fe fans, please correct me !).
This car is usually configured for on-board crew quarters on the bottom, and
*some* couch seating on top. One end's doors matches the Superliners while
the other matches conventional equipment. The last time I rode in one was
San Jose-LA, and the conductor was putting the "shorts" (passengers going
short distances) in that car. Admittedly, it was a much rougher ride.
From the outside, these cars are about 1 foot lower that a regular Superliner,
(built by Pullman Standard), and have more fluted panels. Newly painted
cars will have a "transition stripe" that matches the superliners and regular
cars.
Occasionally Amtrak will occassionally substitute the El Capitain diners and
lounge cars for Superliners, but only when they run short. I haven't heard
whether the new order of Superliners will include replacements for these cars.
I thought the new order of Superliners was going to be used for allowing the
Sunset to run 7 days a week (and on to Jacksonville), the Autotrain, the
City of New Orleans, and maybe the Capital Limited (Chi-Wash).
Radio Freqs: BN (Empire Builder Route) should be 161.100
SP (Coast Starlight) should be 161.550
Garth G. Groff
I have recently ridden the California Zepher from Chicago to
Roseville, there have been no conventional cars, baggage or
otherwise, and no transition cars on my train. Nor did I see
any on the opposing numbers of the same train. The CZ has
always had several "material handling cars" (read express cars)
up front followed by Superliner cars with no transition car.
I do remember the transition cars from riding the Southwest
Limited in 1978(?). I just remember them as having a short
bump at one end of the car, but no high-level diaphram. In
fact, didn't the old Santa Fe His have the vestabules at the
lower levels with blind ends on the upper?