sony 2010 - what replaced it?
clu
for my needs, the Sony 2010 is a real winner. But it is no longer
available for purchase.
Has there been a Sony model to replace it? The only model I can find is
the ICF-SW7600GR. Is this intended to be the replacement? I read
reviews on it and read that it is not quite as good as the Sony 2010.
If I wanted the Sony 2010, what product should I get that comes closest
to quality/value as the Sony 2010?
--
clu
sdan...@nyc.rr.com
manufactured. You can find them on ebay most of the time, though.
I'm told that Sony doesn't intend to make a successor to the SW77.
Steve
clu
compare with the SW7600GR? It's more expensive but is it better? From
the reviews I've read so far, it doesn't appear to be better. ??? I'm
about to make the SW7600GR purchase for $150 at amazon.com and just
want to make sure I'm getting the best for the buck, so to speak.
junius
Performance-wise, it's really not appreciably different from the
'SW7600GR, in my opinion (the small size is nice, however).
Since neither the ICF-SW07 nor the SW7600GR is quite in the same class
as the '2010 or 'SW77, I think you'd do well to look at the Eton E1.
Admittedly, it's on the higher end of the price scale where portables
are concerned (although not that much higher than the 'SW77 back when
it was sold new). Price aside, however, if the '2010 is the type of
radio you're looking for (high performance, full featured portable) and
you're looking to buy new, then the E1 is about the only option out
there. And, thankfully, it seems to be a very nice performer,
according the buzz out there.
junius
junius
out there, actually. Although it's not quite a '2010 or 'SW77, I would
consider the 'SW7600GR a best value in a compact travel-weight/size
portable.
cuh...@webtv.net
checked jr.com a few months ago,they were selling for about $139.00.
www.devilfinder.com J&R Music Company Sony 7600 GR Radios
If you are interested in buying one of those Sony 7600 GR radios,look up
J&R's toll free phone number and ask them about the radios,and your
credit card or debit card handy.I think J&R has free shipping too.
cuhulin
David
If you are interested in the survival of this hobby you should do
business with a radio hobbyist retailer like Grove or Crane or
Universal or HRO,etc., rather than a big box store that doesn't give a
shit if we all go away.
Harveya...@aol.com
I would agree.. Consider getting it ( Sony 7600 ) at a shortwave
store..
C Crane sold me a Sangean 606A years back,
- then put in sensitivity mods; replaced the antenna , etc.
Sony 7600, Computer speakers or good headphones
and an external antenna should do 99% of what you want in a SW receiver
. .
Harveya...@aol.com
E1 review here
http://www.radiointel.com/review-etone1.htm
Ther is also one up there by Dr Phil, in PDF Format
cuh...@webtv.net
wanted to,,,, assuming parts are still available,and I believe they
are.Sony could dress them up in a new plastic dress though and perhaps
add one or two other features.The Sony 2020's perhaps?
cuhulin
Harveya...@aol.com
- Easier for someone to build a better box than reproduce 20 year old
technology IMHO..
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
Not likely. The 2010 was an odd design. Sony had dropped the ICF-2001
design in favor of the smaller ICF-2002. When they finaly realized that
the 100's of AM-Stereo receivers they were selling a year would never
use up their supply of decoder chips, they looked for an alternate
solution.
What they came up with was the ICF-2010. It was a much improved ICF-2001,
with the AM stereo decoder chip used as a sync detector. A brilliant idea,
they ICF-2010 sold like hot cakes when it first came out (around 1986-87)
and was still sold well into this decade.
However they eventualy ran out of chips. To make a replacement would require
the development of a new sync detector chip. This would push the price of
a 2020 as you called it well over $500 a unit.
Actualy at that price it would be a bargain, I paid close to $400 for a
2010, air freighted from Japan before they were available in the U.S. Of
that over $350 was for the receiver in 1987 dollars. In 2005 dollars, it
would be a lot more.
How many people would buy a radio at that price? Certainly enough to
make it the talk of this newsgroup. But would it be enough to pay
of the development costs?
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel g...@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (077)-424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
You should have boycotted Google while you could, now Google supported
BPL is in action. Time is running out on worldwide radio communication.
RHF
If you are interested in a 'replacement' for the Sony ICF-2010
and Sony ICF-SW77 Radios :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ETON-E1-XM-Radio/message/1531
THINK {Consider} the new Etón E1 AM/FM Shortwave Receiver
with XM Satellite Radio.
You should "Read" the Review of the Etón E1 AM/FM Shortwave Radio
- by Jay Allen on Radio Intel .Com
http://www.radiointel.com/review-etone1.htm
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ETON-E1-XM-Radio/message/1528
He compares the Etón E1 Radio to :
* Sony ICF-SW77 { Discontinued }
* Grundig Satellit 800 Millennium { Still Being Made }
* Sony ICF-2010 { The Legend - But No Longer Being Made }
Also - Another Must Read Is -Dr. Phils Side-by-Side Comparison of the
Etón E1 AM/FM Shortwave Radio with the Grundig Satellit 800 Radio.
http://www.radiointel.com/phil/e1xmvssat800.pdf
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ETON-E1-XM-Radio/message/1530
- - - Hosted by Radio Intel .Com
.
All are WELCOME and "Invited to Join" the
ETON 'Elite' E1 XM Radio eGroup on YAHOO !
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ETON-E1-XM-Radio/>
Where the Topic is the Eton 'Elite' E1 Receiver
with XM Satellite Radio. => <http://tinyurl.com/9lfd7>
.
.
what more can i say - e1'ing you all ~ RHF
ETON E1 => <http://tinyurl.com/9lfd7>
. . .
.
. .
.
. . . Out !
.
cuh...@webtv.net
I don't see how any Radios can be better than Watkins Johnson
Radios,regardless of price.
cuhulin
bpnjensen
Radios,regardless of price.
cuhulin <
The Harris RF-series get very high marks. I have been thinking about
getting an RF-550 for awhile now. It wouldn't be a portable, alas...
;-)
Bruce Jensen
cuh...@webtv.net
store,six tenths of a mile South of my Blueberry doggys couch.
cuhulin
craigm
> However they eventualy ran out of chips. To make a replacement would require
> the development of a new sync detector chip. This would push the price of
> a 2020 as you called it well over $500 a unit.
>
>
I don't buy that story. They could run another lot of the chips if the
process was still available, or use a newer chip like the one in the 7600GR.
There are other components that may not have been available. But Sony
has a suitable sync detector chip still in production.
craigm
David
cuh...@webtv.net
cuhulin
cuh...@webtv.net
chip.Look at the chips in your computer.It isn't as if they would need
to design a completly new chip,in my opinion.All they would need to do
is start another run of chips.
cuhulin
Ken...@aol.com
J & R is not a big box retailer, they are a privately-owned one-store
retailer in Manhattan. Yes, in person, it's a brusque New York attitude
type of place, but they have a great reputation, and any time I buy
electronic equipment, I try there first. They almost always have the
lowest price from a reputable dealer. Shut Up. ---Ken
Bob Miller
The 2010 was developed and refined in the 1970s, and there is probably
no "modern" Sony of comparable design. If you like the 2010, your best
bet is to look on eBay.
Try
http://electronics.listings.ebay.com/Radios-CB-Ham-Shortwave_Ham-Radio_W0QQfclZ3QQfcoZ1QQfromZR11QQsacatZ4670QQsocmdZListingItemList
and do a search.
(By the way, the Japan Radio Company NRD-525 is as good or better than
the Sony, but will most likely be on eBay cheaper. Had one since 1988,
and not a single burp.)
bob
k5qwg
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
Not possible. Chip design and manufacturing has changed greatly since the
early '80s. You would have to redesign the chips with modern materials
and manufacuring methods. The cost of doing this would be too high for
chips made in small quantities.
For example, wires were soldered to the chips. It is now illegal to
sell chips in most places with lead, e.g. solder, in them. New technqiues
have been developed, but that changes the capacitance and conductivity of
them which changes it's RF characteristics.
If you don't think so, ask on sci.electronics.repair about the availabilty
of old chips and the possibility of getting new ones made.
For example, if it were a simple chip and it cost $500,000 to make a real
working chip, as opposed to a first run "test chip", how many would you
have to sell in order to make money?
It would be cheaper to re-do it in a DSP chip.
However you did it, you still would have to spend several hundred thousand
dollars designing and programing the radio. By the time you are done
and have a working design ready for the street, with documentation,
etc, you will have spent close to $1m.
Assuming the actual unit costs $250 to manufacture, add $100 for development,
another $50 for packaging, advertisment and tech support and you have a
cost of $400 which translates to a street price of $800.
This is assuming 10,000 units made in the first production run before the
costs would be made back. With the current state of shortwave listening,
I'm not sure you could sell 10,000 units.
Frank Dresser
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <g...@mendelson.com> wrote in message
news:slrndleg6...@cable.mendelson.com...
> In article <15438-43...@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>,
> cuh...@webtv.net wrote:
> > Building chips in mass quantitys doesn't cost much money per each
> > chip.Look at the chips in your computer.It isn't as if they would need
> > to design a completly new chip,in my opinion.All they would need to do
> > is start another run of chips.
>
> Not possible. Chip design and manufacturing has changed greatly since the
> early '80s. You would have to redesign the chips with modern materials
> and manufacuring methods. The cost of doing this would be too high for
> chips made in small quantities.
>
> For example, wires were soldered to the chips. It is now illegal to
> sell chips in most places with lead, e.g. solder, in them. New technqiues
> have been developed, but that changes the capacitance and conductivity of
> them which changes it's RF characteristics.
Aren't the wires in chips wire bonded, which is akin to spot welding?
Have the "most places" who've banned the presumed chips with lead in them
also banned lead in the soldered connections on circuit boards?
I take it you mean banned outright, not just banned from landfills and
incenerators.
>
> If you don't think so, ask on sci.electronics.repair about the availabilty
> of old chips and the possibility of getting new ones made.
Yeah, but obselete parts will be made, if there's a demand. I can still get
new production 30's design 6L6s and 5U4s. Many 74xx logic gates are still
being made. New 555s are easy to find.
>
> For example, if it were a simple chip and it cost $500,000 to make a real
> working chip, as opposed to a first run "test chip", how many would you
> have to sell in order to make money?
I really doubt Sony's decision to drop the 2010 came down to only one chip.
The whole radio is 80s manufacturing technology.
>
> It would be cheaper to re-do it in a DSP chip.
>
> However you did it, you still would have to spend several hundred thousand
> dollars designing and programing the radio. By the time you are done
> and have a working design ready for the street, with documentation,
> etc, you will have spent close to $1m.
>
> Assuming the actual unit costs $250 to manufacture, add $100 for
development,
> another $50 for packaging, advertisment and tech support and you have a
> cost of $400 which translates to a street price of $800.
>
> This is assuming 10,000 units made in the first production run before the
> costs would be made back. With the current state of shortwave listening,
> I'm not sure you could sell 10,000 units.
>
> Geoff.
>
On the last point we agree. There's no reason for Sony to think they'd get
their investment back if they updated the 2010.
Frank Dresser
matt weber
<analo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <g...@mendelson.com> wrote in message
>news:slrndleg6...@cable.mendelson.com...
>> In article <15438-43...@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>,
>> cuh...@webtv.net wrote:
>> > Building chips in mass quantitys doesn't cost much money per each
>> > chip.Look at the chips in your computer.It isn't as if they would need
>> > to design a completly new chip,in my opinion.All they would need to do
>> > is start another run of chips.
>>
>> Not possible. Chip design and manufacturing has changed greatly since the
>> early '80s. You would have to redesign the chips with modern materials
>> and manufacuring methods. The cost of doing this would be too high for
>> chips made in small quantities.
>>
>> For example, wires were soldered to the chips. It is now illegal to
>> sell chips in most places with lead, e.g. solder, in them. New technqiues
>> have been developed, but that changes the capacitance and conductivity of
>> them which changes it's RF characteristics.
>
>Aren't the wires in chips wire bonded, which is akin to spot welding?
>
>Have the "most places" who've banned the presumed chips with lead in them
>also banned lead in the soldered connections on circuit boards?
>
>I take it you mean banned outright, not just banned from landfills and
>incenerators.
They have banned lead, but largely because of the fumes from the
production of the products, Pure tin solders have some very
interesting problems of their own, and it has been a very unpleasant
experience for the Military. Under conditions not well understood, the
tin will grow crystals sometimes, and the crystals can and do create
new connections that were never intended, usually with less than
desireable consequences...
>
>
>
Frank Dresser
"matt weber" <matth...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3rsgl1hunfhdrk7v3...@4ax.com...
> They have banned lead, but largely because of the fumes from the
> production of the products,
I think the various lead bans are intended to keep lead out of the air and
drinking water. That is, no more lead in gasoline and no more lead based
plumbing solder. Much nasiter stuff than lead is used everyday in
industrial processes, and there aren't many problems. I'd think government
standards for industrial lead use would have to do more with exposure,
ventilation and training, rather than an outright ban. But I don't know,
and you might be right.
> Pure tin solders have some very
> interesting problems of their own, and it has been a very unpleasant
> experience for the Military. Under conditions not well understood, the
> tin will grow crystals sometimes, and the crystals can and do create
> new connections that were never intended, usually with less than
> desireable consequences...
Yep. Tin whiskers. Check out:
Interestingly, one of the recommended ways to reduce tin whiskering is to
avoid using pure tin plating and use tin-lead plating, instead.
Frank Dresser
John S.
clu wrote:
> I am new to this and have been looking at a lot of reviews. It appears,
> for my needs, the Sony 2010 is a real winner. But it is no longer
> available for purchase.
>
> Has there been a Sony model to replace it? The only model I can find is
> the ICF-SW7600GR. Is this intended to be the replacement? I read
> reviews on it and read that it is not quite as good as the Sony 2010.
>
> If I wanted the Sony 2010, what product should I get that comes closest
> to quality/value as the Sony 2010?
>
> clu
Nothing comnparable replaced it imho. If you are looking for a 2010
then look for a good used one. It is a very nice radio, and nothing
comes close to it's size, good design, performance and ease of use.
That said you will get good performance from a Sony 7600 current model
at $130.00 or almost as good performance from a little chinese Degen
DE1103 for about $50.00
cuh...@webtv.net
in Florence,Mississippi that manufactured batteries for cars and 18
wheeler trucks and lawn mowers and also six volt old style batteries for
older model MG cars.The factory had a lot of big ducts in the ceiling
and big vacuum pumps that pulled the air inside of the factory up into
the ducts and that air was filtered with big industial filters,the
factory couldn't let lead dust get into the air outside of the
factory.At regular intevals,our blood was tested to see if there was any
lead getting into our blood stream.Sometimes,we would have to wear
little Miners vacuum pumps in one of our hip pockets during our work
shifts.The little Miners vacuum pumps had a piece of clear flexible hose
and a clip that let the hose be clipped on our shirts up near our necks
and there was a little round holder thingy with a little special piece
of paper in the holder.The little papers were sent off somewhere to be
tested.It it was determined we had been working too long in whatever
part of the factory and we were breathing air that had too much lead
dust in the air,we were moved to another part of the factory for a few
weeks that didn't have as much lead dust in the air.It was a lot of loud
noises inside of that factory too and at regular intervals,there was a
van that had special instruments and earphones that we put on to see if
we could hear certain kinds of low volume noises.If you were in the
Military before,you know what kind of hearing test I am talking about.At
the end of our daily work shifts,we all took a shower and put our
regular clothes on and we left our work uniforms at the factory.Nobody
wants to get home from work and spread lead dust all over the
place.y'all think Iraq is hot in the Summer time,,, go work in an auto
battery factory and y'all will know what real heat is like,I Guarantee
y'all that!
cuhulin
David
Well there you go. Mystery sol-ved.