Grounding Question
BCBlazysusan
some of you all have to say.
I know the importance of grounding, I'm a grounding freak (when it
comes to the antennas), be it here at my QTH or in the vehicle. But I
have never actually grounded any of my receivers itself. By that I
mean I have never actually grounded the radio before at my home.
I did over the weekend and I am curious - - does this make a
noticeable difference on the receiving end? I don't know if it's just
been a good listening environment over the weekend or did my grounding
of the radio make the difference.
I have noticed a 'very' low noise floor (almost to nothing) on both
the shortwave bands, especially 60 meters and also on the BCB bands.
Luckily I live out in the country away from a lot of the rf problems
people have in the city and I can't believe that I could get the noise
floor even lower than it usually is. Just good conditions this weekend
or did the grounding of the radios actually help in this?
Art Harris
An easy experiment would be to temporarily put a switch in series with
the ground wire. Then switch the ground in and out while listening to
a weak station. If there is a real improvement with the grounding, it
should be obvious by ear or by looking at the "S" meter.
I'm skeptical that it will improve reception. You may just be
expecting it to because you went through the trouble. Some folks swear
their car runs better after they wash and wax it!
Art Harris N2AH
Mike
I've tried some experiments with grounding. The only receivers I own
where it seems to make a difference are the Icom R75 and the Ten tec
RX320. It doesn't seem to make much of a difference with most portable
receivers.
Mike
Telamon
<906fa2c3-d6f2-492b...@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
Art Harris <n2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> BCBlazysusan wrote:
> > I know the importance of grounding, I'm a grounding freak (when it
> > comes to the antennas), be it here at my QTH or in the vehicle. But
> > I have never actually grounded any of my receivers itself. By that
> > I mean I have never actually grounded the radio before at my home.
> >
> > I did over the weekend and I am curious - - does this make a
> > noticeable difference on the receiving end? I don't know if it's
> > just been a good listening environment over the weekend or did my
> > grounding of the radio make the difference.
> >
> > I have noticed a 'very' low noise floor (almost to nothing) on both
> > the shortwave bands, especially 60 meters and also on the BCB
> > bands. Luckily I live out in the country away from a lot of the rf
> > problems people have in the city and I can't believe that I could
> > get the noise floor even lower than it usually is. Just good
> > conditions this weekend or did the grounding of the radios actually
> > help in this?
> >
>
> An easy experiment would be to temporarily put a switch in series
> with the ground wire. Then switch the ground in and out while
> listening to a weak station. If there is a real improvement with the
> grounding, it should be obvious by ear or by looking at the "S"
> meter.
Good advice.
> I'm skeptical that it will improve reception. You may just be
> expecting it to because you went through the trouble. Some folks
> swear their car runs better after they wash and wax it!
My car does.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Telamon
<8a62b415-dc4b-46a8...@v39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
BCBlazysusan <gk...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Whether the radio ground makes a difference or not depends on the kind
of antenna you are using, if there are other grounds, and how much noise
is on the mains the radio is plugged into.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Burr
"BCBlazysusan" <gk...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:8a62b415-dc4b-46a8...@v39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> I'm almost embarrased to ask this question but I want to hear what
> some of you all have to say.
BC,
Ground ground ground. I ground everything.
I use coaxial cable to get all three of my antenna's in the
house then I ground the sheathe and the radios to a ground rod.
When you test don't use a switch because of the ground potential
of the EMF around the switch parts. Open the ground all the way and keep
your hands away.
Burr
Telamon
"Burr" <pit...@iwvisp.com> wrote:
Yeah, you can do better by keep yourself away from the news group you
sick puppy.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
BCBlazysusan
>
> - Show quoted text -
No Art, I wasn't expecting it to help in reception, it never has
before (that I know of.) I took off the ground to see, and it didn't
make any difference on the meter or ear. The day before I grounded the
radio I increased the height of the antenna (A-D sloper) another ten
feet. I wouldn't think that would make the difference either.
I think the conditions have been pretty good. I always have a low
noise floor but it was so low I reached around to the back of the
radio to see if the antenna was connected, that's how quiet it is.
Same way tonight. For example, on 2.331 right now the meter is showing
just over 0 and that usually has a lot of static on those bands when
no one is talking. Maybe I shouldn't question it, just be glad. :-)
Mark Zenier
BCBlazysusan <gk...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Sometimes your ground connection has noise on it, so if you hook to the
receiver, it becomes common mode and cancels out the local noise the
antenna is picking up. Your milage may vary.
Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)
RHF
- Some folks swear their car runs better
- after they wash and wax it!
Actually It Does !
- - - but you have to be going 120 MPH
to feel the difference ;;-} ~ RHF
{Less Drag}
>
> Art Harris N2AH
RHF
MWB,
Take a Grounded Metal Plate {Aluminum Cookie Sheet} :
Place it under a 'portable' AM/FM Shortwave Radio that
is running on Batteries using only the Whip Antenna.
Sometimes the 'coupling' between the Radio and the
Ground will help to improve the reception of a
Free-Standing {In-Space} Un-Grounded Radio.
~ RHF
.
RHF
BCB LZS,
What you are looking for is better Signal-to-Noise
[S/N] Ratio from your Antenna & Ground System :
1 - Good * Sometimes the Signal Level will Improve
and the Noise Level may go down a little.
2 - Not-So-Good * Often the Signal Level will improve
and the Noise Level will also go up.
3 - Better * Then Again Sometimes the Signal Level
will be reduced some what and the Noise Level
will go down a lot.
4 - No Change * Nothing Changed {Oh Well}
.
If between your Antennas and your Radio Shack you
are running Coax Cable and your Coax is Grounded :
Then 'effectively' the Radios connected to your
Antennas via the Coax are already Grounded TOO.
.
The First Reason for a Radio Shack Ground and
Having Your Radios and Equipment Grounded IS
Electrical "Safety".
.
Someone will most likely suggest that you use
a Ground Window or Single-Point-Ground for
your Radio Shack's Radios and Equipment
http://www.comm-omni.com/edcoweb/grndw.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity)
http://www.ese.upenn.edu/rca/instruments/misctutorials/Ground/grd.html
.
Other will recommend that you "Bond" All
Your Grounds per the NEC.
http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/GB-HTML/HTML/Grounding-Part-1-of-12~20041005.php
.
-imho- An 8-Foot Ground Rod in the Earth as
close to your Radio Shack as possible and
"Bonded" to your House's Electrical System
is a good beginning for having a 'Safe' Radio
Shack. ~ RHF
.
Alpha Delta DX-SWL Shortwave Sloper Antenna
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/pg7.html
http://www.universal-radio.com/CATALOG/sw_ant/0799.html
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/dxswlii.htm
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/dxswl_ii.htm
http://www.universal-radio.com/CATALOG/sw_ant/0799om.html
-iirc- the DX-SWL Shortwave Sloper Antenna
does not use a Matching Transformer.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/ea0bc32528e305ec
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/42fe06bca65bed3c
Shortwave Antenna Safety Tips
http://www.universal-radio.com/CATALOG/sw_ant/safeswl.html
.
hope this antenna & grounding info helps
- - - iane ~ RHF {pomkia}
Twain Harte, CA -USA-
.
Are You Interested in building a better Shortwave Listening
(SWL) Antenna ? {SWL Group} = http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
GoTo = http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
RHF's Standard "Shortwave Radio Listener (SWL) Antennas Group"
Reference Message Signature-Line = http://tinyurl.com/25zbrg
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/411dac3b4a1798e0
.
* Remember 55.5% of Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL)
is the Shortwave Antenna = http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
.
RHF's Radio Shack in Twain Harte, California -USA-
SHACK INFO = http://tinyurl.com/2skmxm
Shortwave Radio / Receiver and SWL Antenna Info
.
Shortwave Listener QSL Reports Newsgroup : SWL : INFO
http://groups.google.com/group/shortwave-listener-qsl-reports/
.
-= 6GZ4GB + 32UCPM + OGVCF + 25ZBRG + 2SKMXM =-
.
.
BCBlazysusan
> In article <8a62b415-dc4b-46a8-9f07-cfb56a9cb...@v39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I hear what you are saying Mark but I never had a noise problem out
here to begin with. I only went over board on the grounding of the
antennas for fear of static buildup or lightening. I have two (I
forget the size for sure) big ground rods for two of my antennas and
certain lengths of wires buried underground fanned out underneath the
sloper.
So what you are saying is that the noise I did have was canceled out
by the grounding on the receiver itself, is that right?
BCBlazysusan
>
> - Show quoted text -
Huh. That is interesting, I have never heard that. Thanks RHF. You
come in handy some times. ;-)
BCBlazysusan
> .
> Other will recommend that you "Bond" All
> .
> -imho- An 8-Foot Ground Rod in the Earth as
> close to your Radio Shack as possible and
> "Bonded" to your House's Electrical System
> is a good beginning for having a 'Safe' Radio
> Shack. ~ RHF
> .
> -iirc- the DX-SWL Shortwave Sloper Antenna
> does not use a Matching Transformer.http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/ea0bc32528e305echttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/42fe06bca65bed3c
>
> .
> hope this antenna & grounding info helps
> - - - iane ~ RHF {pomkia}
> Twain Harte, CA -USA-
> .
> Are You Interested in building a better Shortwave Listening
> (SWL) Antenna ? {SWL Group} =http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
> .
> RHF's Standard "Shortwave Radio Listener (SWL) Antennas Group"
> .
> * Remember 55.5% of Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL)
> .
> RHF's Radio Shack in Twain Harte, California -USA-
> Shortwave Radio / Receiver and SWL Antenna Info
> .
> .
> -= 6GZ4GB + 32UCPM + OGVCF + 25ZBRG + 2SKMXM =-
> .
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for the links. I was just grounding them.....because. ;-) You
know what I mean? I wasn't doing it to try an improve anything. I have
everything outside grounded as well as one can do IMO. I was just
surprised that I could tell a difference, like I said, I actually
thought the antenna wasn't connected. That is a pretty low noise floor
IMO. ;-)
BCBlazysusan
> .
> Other will recommend that you "Bond" All
> .
> -imho- An 8-Foot Ground Rod in the Earth as
> close to your Radio Shack as possible and
> "Bonded" to your House's Electrical System
> is a good beginning for having a 'Safe' Radio
> Shack. ~ RHF
> .
> -iirc- the DX-SWL Shortwave Sloper Antenna
>
> .
> hope this antenna & grounding info helps
> - - - iane ~ RHF {pomkia}
> Twain Harte, CA -USA-
> .
> Are You Interested in building a better Shortwave Listening
> (SWL) Antenna ? {SWL Group} =http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
> .
> RHF's Standard "Shortwave Radio Listener (SWL) Antennas Group"
> .
> * Remember 55.5% of Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL)
> .
> RHF's Radio Shack in Twain Harte, California -USA-
> Shortwave Radio / Receiver and SWL Antenna Info
> .
> .
> -= 6GZ4GB + 32UCPM + OGVCF + 25ZBRG + 2SKMXM =-
> .
>
> - Show quoted text -
Something I read on one of those links in reference to antenna height,
it says the optimal height in 25ft. That was the first height I put it
at. But I noticed a real difference at 40 ft...it was quieter. I then
upped it to 45 ft. with no difference and finally to the 55ft. All I
know is something made the noise floor go even lower. It may have been
the height and the ground or a combination of the two. Kind of hard
for me to believe that an antenna at 25 ft. would receive as well as
one at 55 ft. but who knows.
Art Harris
> Something I read on one of those links in reference to antenna height,
> it says the optimal height in 25ft. That was the first height I put it
> at. But I noticed a real difference at 40 ft...it was quieter. I then
> upped it to 45 ft. with no difference and finally to the 55ft. All I
> know is something made the noise floor go even lower. It may have been
> the height and the ground or a combination of the two. Kind of hard
> for me to believe that an antenna at 25 ft. would receive as well as
> one at 55 ft. but who knows.
>
It really depends on the frequency you're trying to receive. In
general, an antenna height of 1/2 wavelength above ground is something
to aim for. At 14 MHz that's about 33 feet; at 7 MHz it's about 66
feet.
At vhf/uhf, height is everything due to the line-of-sight nature of
those signals. At hf, not so much so (although it never hurts).
Art Harris N2AH
Telamon
<98c48e5c-db61-41c2...@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
Art Harris <n2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Because the OP is using a single wire antenna the signal to local noise
will improve with the single wire height at any frequency since the
distant signal volts per meter differential increases between the wire
and counter poise at the ground level with height.
The counter poise is grounded so local common mode noise has a place to
go other than the receiver input and with increasing height the single
wire is farther from local noise fields, which curve back to the earth.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Telamon
<ff53665f-9d72-4493...@h16g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
BCBlazysusan <gk...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > ATALOG/sw_ant/0799.htmlhttp://www.alphadeltacom.com/dxswlii.htmhttp://www.al
> > phadeltacom.com/dxswl_ii.htmhttp://www.universal-radio.com/CATALOG/sw_ant/07
RHF posts are as retarded as ever.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
RHF
> > .
> > Other will recommend that you "Bond" All
> > Your Grounds per the NEC.http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/GB-HTML/HTML/Grounding-Part-1...
> > .
> > -imho- An 8-Foot Ground Rod in the Earth as
> > close to your Radio Shack as possible and
> > "Bonded" to your House's Electrical System
> > is a good beginning for having a 'Safe' Radio
> > Shack. ~ RHF
> > .
> > -iirc- the DX-SWL Shortwave Sloper Antenna
>
> > Shortwave Antenna Safety Tipshttp://www.universal-radio.com/CATALOG/sw_ant/safeswl.html
> > .
> > hope this antenna & grounding info helps
> > - - - iane ~ RHF {pomkia}
> > Twain Harte, CA -USA-
> > .
> > Are You Interested in building a better Shortwave Listening
> > (SWL) Antenna ? {SWL Group} =http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
> > GoTo =http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
> > .
> > RHF's Standard "Shortwave Radio Listener (SWL) Antennas Group"
> > .
> > * Remember 55.5% of Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL)
> > is the Shortwave Antenna =http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
> > .
> > RHF's Radio Shack in Twain Harte, California -USA-
> > SHACK INFO =http://tinyurl.com/2skmxm
> > Shortwave Radio / Receiver and SWL Antenna Info
> > .
> > Shortwave Listener QSL Reports Newsgroup : SWL : INFOhttp://groups.google.com/group/shortwave-listener-qsl-reports/
> > .
> > -= 6GZ4GB + 32UCPM + OGVCF + 25ZBRG + 2SKMXM =-
> > .
> > .- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Something I read on one of those links in reference to antenna height,
> it says the optimal height in 25ft. That was the first height I put it
> at. But I noticed a real difference at 40 ft...it was quieter. I then
> upped it to 45 ft. with no difference and finally to the 55ft. All I
> know is something made the noise floor go even lower. It may have been
> the height and the ground or a combination of the two. Kind of hard
> for me to believe that an antenna at 25 ft. would receive as well as
> one at 55 ft. but who knows.
WRT - DX-SWL Shortwave Sloper Antenna
? Is Your Antenna 'Sloping' ?
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/pg7.html
Top Starting Peak Height in Feet ___
and Bottom End Height in Feet ___
.
Why '"Sloping" ?
"the antenna seems to exhibit best overall
performance" : "since this takes advantage of
a ground capacitance broadband loading effect"
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/dxswlii.htm
.
Note 'if' you are using a on-the-ground or and
in-the-ground Radial or Counterpoise with this
Antenna then your 'Height' performance variation
may be due to that -or- If you are using a Metal
Tower versus the side of a Wooden House or a
Tree that too may cause a performance variation.
Depending on 'how' you Rigged the 30-Foot Down
Lead 'along' or 'to'* the Metal Tower/Mast.
* Connected 'to' the Tower/Mast means that the
30-Foot Down Lead AIN'T 30-Foot : It is however
'long' as your Tower is "Tall" which is in and of
itself a significant 'change' to the physical and
electrical {frequency} characteristics of the
Antenna as a whole.
.
The DX-SWL Shortwave Sloper Antenna is a
Sloper Antenna when it is 'close-to-the-ground'
-however- When it is Elevated significantly
Above-the-Ground : It may be thought of as an
Inverted {Lazy} "L" Off-Center Fed-Dipole Antenna.
{Windom Antenna 30-Foot -by- 60-Foot}
.
and that is something to think about
. . . iane ~ RHF {pomkia}
Twain Harte, CA -USA-
.
Are You Interested in building a better Shortwave Listening
(SWL) Antenna ? {SWL Group} = http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
GoTo = http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
RHF's Standard "Shortwave Radio Listener (SWL) Antennas Group"
Reference Message Signature-Line = http://tinyurl.com/25zbrg
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/411dac3b4a1798e0
.
* Remember 55.5% of Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL)
is the Shortwave Antenna = http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
.
RHF's Radio Shack in Twain Harte, California -USA-
SHACK INFO = http://tinyurl.com/2skmxm
RHF
> > .
> > Other will recommend that you "Bond" All
> > Your Grounds per the NEC.http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/GB-HTML/HTML/Grounding-Part-1...
> > .
> > -imho- An 8-Foot Ground Rod in the Earth as
> > close to your Radio Shack as possible and
> > "Bonded" to your House's Electrical System
> > is a good beginning for having a 'Safe' Radio
> > Shack. ~ RHF
> > .
> > -iirc- the DX-SWL Shortwave Sloper Antenna
>
> > Shortwave Antenna Safety Tipshttp://www.universal-radio.com/CATALOG/sw_ant/safeswl.html
> > .
> > hope this antenna & grounding info helps
> > - - - iane ~ RHF {pomkia}
> > Twain Harte, CA -USA-
> > .
> > Are You Interested in building a better Shortwave Listening
> > (SWL) Antenna ? {SWL Group} =http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
> > GoTo =http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
> > .
> > RHF's Standard "Shortwave Radio Listener (SWL) Antennas Group"
> > .
> > * Remember 55.5% of Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL)
> > is the Shortwave Antenna =http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
> > .
> > RHF's Radio Shack in Twain Harte, California -USA-
> > SHACK INFO =http://tinyurl.com/2skmxm
> > Shortwave Radio / Receiver and SWL Antenna Info
> > .
> > Shortwave Listener QSL Reports Newsgroup : SWL : INFOhttp://groups.google.com/group/shortwave-listener-qsl-reports/
> > .
> > -= 6GZ4GB + 32UCPM + OGVCF + 25ZBRG + 2SKMXM =-
> > .
> > .- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks for the links. I was just grounding them.....because. ;-) You
> know what I mean? I wasn't doing it to try an improve anything. I have
> everything outside grounded as well as one can do IMO. I was just
> surprised that I could tell a difference, like I said, I actually
> thought the antenna wasn't connected. That is a pretty low noise floor
> IMO. ;-)
SWLs : ARE YOUR ANTENNA and GROUND . . .
REALLY WORKING TOGETHER ? ? ?
.
1 - With both the Antenna and the Radio Ground
'connected' to the Radio and the Radio "On" :
* Find a good strong S9 Signal Frequency X,xxx kHz
+ 10 kHz {no signal} background band noise. [S_]
-- 10 kHz {no signal} background band noise. [S_]
.
2 - Remove the Antenna and keep the Radio Ground
'connected'
* Same Frequency X,xxx kHz for that S9 Signal
^ Signal Level now 'changed' to [S_]
+ 10 kHz {no signal} background band noise.
^ Any 'change' to the background noise level [S_]
-- 10 kHz {no signal} background band noise.
^ Any 'change' to the background noise level [S_]
.
3 - Re-Connect the Antenna and Remove the Radio
Ground 'connected'
* Same Frequency X,xxx kHz for that S9 Signal
^ Signal Level now 'changed' to [S_]
+ 10 kHz {no signal} background band noise.
^ Any 'change' to the background noise level [S_]
-- 10 kHz {no signal} background band noise.
^ Any 'change' to the background noise level [S_]
.
4 - Remove the Antenna and Remove the Radio
Ground 'connected' [Plugged into AC Power Only]
* Same Frequency X,xxx kHz for that S9 Signal
^ Signal Level now 'changed' to [S_]
+ 10 kHz {no signal} background band noise.
^ Any 'change' to the background noise level [S_]
-- 10 kHz {no signal} background band noise.
^ Any 'change' to the background noise level [S_]
.
FWIW - Some Do #4 First.
.
NOTE - Your results for 120m, 90m and 75m Shortwave
Radio Bands may be 'different' then for 22m, 19m and
16m Shortwave Radio Bands.
.
RESULTS - What every gives you the Best Signal
and the Lowest Noise Levels on a given Shortwave
Radio Band is what works best for you {Best S/N Ratio}
.
it's always nice to know that your antenna and
ground are working together - iane ~ RHF {pomkia}
Twain Harte, CA -USA-
.
Are You Interested in building a better Shortwave Listening
(SWL) Antenna ? {SWL Group} = http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
GoTo = http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
RHF's Standard "Shortwave Radio Listener (SWL) Antennas Group"
Reference Message Signature-Line = http://tinyurl.com/25zbrg
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/411dac3b4a1798e0
.
* Remember 55.5% of Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL)
is the Shortwave Antenna = http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
.
RHF's Radio Shack in Twain Harte, California -USA-
SHACK INFO = http://tinyurl.com/2skmxm
BCBlazysusan
Then that may be the difference, the height. I very rarely, like maybe
not at all, venture even over 9MHz. The main band on shortwave I
listen to is the 60 and 40 meter band, so if I went another 10ft it
should be better, correct?
I had a buddy increase the mast for me, he won't be around till this
weekend. One of these days, maybe this spring I'm just going to cut
the specific lengths of wire for each band, that would be the best way
to go. But out of all the antennas I've had the AD DX sloper performs
better than any of them. I've had it up since 99 and the only
maintenance I've done to it is changing out of the coax twice.
BCBlazysusan
<telamon_spamshi...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
> In article
> <98c48e5c-db61-41c2-971f-c393fbb00...@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>
> - Show quoted text -
Good deal Telamon. :-)
BCBlazysusan
> GoTo =http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
> .
> RHF's Standard "Shortwave Radio Listener (SWL) Antennas Group"
> .
> * Remember 55.5% of Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL)
> .
> RHF's Radio Shack in Twain Harte, California -USA-
> SHACK INFO =http://tinyurl.com/2skmxm
> Shortwave Radio / Receiver and SWL Antenna Info
> .
> Shortwave Listener QSL Reports Newsgroup : SWL : INFOhttp://groups.google.com/group/shortwave-listener-qsl-reports/
> .
> -= 6GZ4GB + 32UCPM + OGVCF + 25ZBRG + 2SKMXM =-
> .
> .- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hey RHF, I was looking at your website and ran into something I've
been curious about. I have a 9:1 balum (I think that's what it is) a
friend hooked me up with in the thinking that I would get my ticket
and be able to transmit on it, which I never did. I have it just
sitting in the closet. It has the eyelets on each side with the coax
connector at the bottom, the reason I stopped using it was because I
thought I was told that one side was "hot" so too speak and I forget
which side that was. Would that have any bearing on me just using that
for a receive only antenna? I know at one time I had a length of wire
connected to it but I forget how I had it rigged. Can anyone tell me
about this. I think I am saying it right. It could be used for just a
receive antenna couldn't it and if so what would be good for that
particular balun. Thanks:-)
Art Harris
> > It really depends on the frequency you're trying to receive. In
> > general, an antenna height of 1/2 wavelength above ground is something
> > to aim for. At 14 MHz that's about 33 feet; at 7 MHz it's about 66
> > feet.
>
> not at all, venture even over 9MHz. The main band on shortwave I
> listen to is the 60 and 40 meter band, so if I went another 10ft it
> should be better, correct?
>
How high is it now? You mentioned various heights from 25 feet to 55
feet. Raising it from 25 feet to 35 feet might make a noticeable
difference. Going from 55 to 65 feet might not be worth the trouble
(except to get your ant further from man-made noise sources).
Art N2AH
dave
> Why '"Sloping" ?
> "the antenna seems to exhibit best overall
> performance" : "since this takes advantage of
> a ground capacitance broadband loading effect"
> http://www.alphadeltacom.com/dxswlii.htm
> .
Telemon's right, you are a Dictaphone.
The sloper requires "ground" radials at both ends of a metal support
structure to work best. Alpha Delta recommends a metal tower with a
tribander on top. I use a 44' mast with an aluminum rod top hat.
You also have to decouple the transmission line outer conductor at the
feedpoint; easily done by winding about 8 turns of it into an air core
choke.
The current node is about 35' in the air, where it works better. The
steel mast is part of an asymmetric dipole. It doesn't really qualify
as a Windom.
Mark Zenier
BCBlazysusan <gk...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>On Feb 16, 12:20 pm, mzen...@eskimo.com (Mark Zenier) wrote:
>> In article
>> BCBlazysusan <gk...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >I'm almost embarrased to ask this question but I want to hear what
>> >some of you all have to say.
>>
>> >I know the importance of grounding, I'm a grounding freak (when it
>> >comes to the antennas), be it here at my QTH or in the vehicle. But I
>> >have never actually grounded any of my receivers itself. By that I
>> >mean I have never actually grounded the radio before at my home.
>>
>> >I did over the weekend and I am curious - - does this make a
>> >noticeable difference on the receiving end? I don't know if it's just
>> >been a good listening environment over the weekend or did my grounding
>> >of the radio make the difference.
>>
>> >I have noticed a 'very' low noise floor (almost to nothing) on both
>> >the shortwave bands, especially 60 meters and also on the BCB bands.
>> >Luckily I live out in the country away from a lot of the rf problems
>> >people have in the city and I can't believe that I could get the noise
>> >floor even lower than it usually is. Just good conditions this weekend
>> >or did the grounding of the radios actually help in this?
>>
>> Sometimes your ground connection has noise on it, so if you hook to the
>> receiver, it becomes common mode and cancels out the local noise the
>> antenna is picking up. Your milage may vary.
>>
>
>I hear what you are saying Mark but I never had a noise problem out
>here to begin with. I only went over board on the grounding of the
>antennas for fear of static buildup or lightening. I have two (I
>forget the size for sure) big ground rods for two of my antennas and
>certain lengths of wires buried underground fanned out underneath the
>sloper.
>
>So what you are saying is that the noise I did have was canceled out
>by the grounding on the receiver itself, is that right?
A receiver works off the voltage difference between its chassis ground
and its antenna input. If you "ground" the radio to a circuit that,
in reality, has some effective length as an antenna, the ground will
have some RF voltage on it. But since the receiver works on the voltage
difference, it's "floating" on top of this noise. Where the mileage may
vary is how well matched this "ground" noise is to the local noise that
the antenna is feeding the receiver.
It's a really ad hoc way of working it. More likely to be useful with
a portable, or in an apartment/condo situation where there is
no real RF ground.
Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Bushcraftgregg
The sloper is now at 55ft. I thought that one post said that if it was
at 65ft. that would be optimal for 7 MHz. All I basically monitor is
from the 60 meter band to 7MHz. Not that I don't at times go outside
those. I have another long length of wire for the lower bands if I
want.
~ RHF
> On Feb 19, 7:54 am, Art Harris <n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > BCBlazysusan wrote:
> > > > It really depends on the frequency you're trying to receive. In
> > > > general, an antenna height of 1/2 wavelength above ground is something
> > > > to aim for. At 14 MHz that's about 33 feet; at 7 MHz it's about 66
> > > > feet.
>
> > > Then that may be the difference, the height. I very rarely, like maybe
> > > not at all, venture even over 9MHz. The main band on shortwave I
> > > listen to is the 60 and 40 meter band, so if I went another 10ft it
> > > should be better, correct?
>
> > How high is it now? You mentioned various heights from 25 feet to 55
> > feet. Raising it from 25 feet to 35 feet might make a noticeable
> > difference. Going from 55 to 65 feet might not be worth the trouble
> > (except to get your ant further from man-made noise sources).
>
> > Art N2AH
>
- I thought that one post said that if it was at 65ft.
- that would be optimal for 7 MHz.
- All I basically monitor is from the 60 meter band
- to 7MHz. Not that I don't at times go outside those.
- I have another long length of wire for the lower bands
- if I want.
BCB LzS / BCG,
OK the 'peak' of the Alpha Delta DX-SWL
Shortwave Sloper Antenna is at 55-Feet.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/c8b87d294a8e9970
Question - What is the FAR-END [Bottom]
Height in Feet :
[ ] Basically "Flat" at 55-Feet too ?
[ ] Slightly Sloping at 40~45-Feet ?
[ ] Sloping at 33~38-Feet ?
[ ] Real Sloping at 25~30-Feet ? {Roughly 45*}
[ ] Getting Nearly Vertical at 15-Feet or less ?
NOTE that the Sloper {Sloping} Leg is only 60 Feet Long.
.
Alpha Delta DX-SWL Shortwave Sloper Antenna
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/pg7.html
http://www.universal-radio.com/CATALOG/sw_ant/0799.html
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/dxswlii.htm
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/dxswl_ii.htm
http://www.universal-radio.com/CATALOG/sw_ant/0799om.html
.
iirc - Reportedly running the 30-Foot Down Lead
about One Foot Off-the-Mast works better than
running it directly on-the-mast. - i want to know ~ RHF
.
.
~ RHF
- - RHF wrote:
- - Why '"Sloping" ?
- - "the antenna seems to exhibit best overall
- - performance" : "since this takes advantage of
- - a ground capacitance broadband loading effect"
- - http://www.alphadeltacom.com/dxswlii.htm
- - .
- Telemon's right, you are a Dictaphone.
Telamon is often 'right' and at times Dave so are you . . .
.
.
Dave - I Be Stinking About the . . .
Alpha Delta DX-SWL "Shortwave" Sloper Antenna
-by- RHF
- The sloper requires "ground" radials at both ends
- of a metal support structure to work best.
Dave - So then why doesn't AD sell those "ground"
radials as part of the Alpha Delta DX-SWL Shortwave
Sloper Antenna ? ? ?
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/pg7.html
http://www.universal-radio.com/CATALOG/sw_ant/0799.html
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/dxswlii.htm
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/dxswl_ii.htm
http://www.universal-radio.com/CATALOG/sw_ant/0799om.html
.
- Alpha Delta recommends a metal tower with a
tribander on top.
.
Dave - AD sell the Alpha Delta DX-SWL Shortwave
Sloper Antenna as a "SWL" Shortwave Radio
Listener Antenna and I do not know of many
'pure' Shortwave Radio Listeners [SWLs] who are
not HAMs that have a "Tri-Bander" on top of their
"Metal Towers"
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/pg7.html
http://www.universal-radio.com/CATALOG/sw_ant/0799.html
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/dxswlii.htm
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/dxswl_ii.htm
http://www.universal-radio.com/CATALOG/sw_ant/0799om.html
.
Dave - Please note that the 'typical' Picture that
is used with the Alpha Delta DX-SWL Shortwave
Sloper Antenna shows it being Mounted under
the Eaves of a {Wooden} House.
http://www.universal-radio.com/CATALOG/sw_ant/0799.html
.
- I use a 44' mast with an aluminum rod top hat.
.
Dave - 44 Foot {Metal} Mast
Dave - Aluminum Rod Top Hat
Simply both Prove that you are NOT the
'average' Shortwave Radio Listener [SWL].
.
- You also have to decouple the transmission line
- outer conductor at the feedpoint; easily done by
- winding about 8 turns of it into an air core choke.
.
Dave - Alpha Delta DX-SWL Shortwave Sloper
Antenna Installation Instructions do not mention
that fact or specify that requirement for this
Antenna's Receive Function.
http://www.universal-radio.com/CATALOG/sw_ant/0799om.html
.
- The current node is about 35' in the air,
- where it works better.
.
Dave - Then 'why-oh-why' does AD recommend
a Mounting Height of 25 Feet in the Alpha Delta
DX-SWL Shortwave Sloper Antenna Installation
Instructions ? ? ?
"best overall performance at a mounting height
of around 25 feet since this takes advantage of
a ground capacitance broadband loading effect."
http://www.universal-radio.com/CATALOG/sw_ant/0799om.html
.
- The steel mast is part of an asymmetric dipole.
.
Dave - D'Oh ! - Would that 'translate' to an
Off-Center Fed Dipole ?
-dave- Which is sort-of-like a Windom Antenna
Note - That is Bent sort-of-like an "L" at the Feed-Point ?
.
- It doesn't really qualify as a Windom.
Dave there are many 'types' of Single Wire Antennas . . .
Dave there are many 'types' of Duel Wire "Dipole" Antennas . . .
none of them are required to 'qualify' to be anything
-but- they do have to work [.]
.
-translation- 'work' = help improve your radio reception.
.
Stinking About the . . .
Alpha Delta DX-SWL "Shortwave" Sloper Antenna
-by- RHF
.
- - - iane ~ RHF {pomkia}
Twain Harte, CA -USA-
.
Are You Interested in building a better Shortwave Listening
dave
~ RHF
Dave yeah I would say roughly 17~20 Feet High for
the Far-End : With 30~33 Feet being near Optimum
along with a Feeder Point Height of 60~66 Feet on
a Metal Tower with a Top-Hat above.
- My DX-B is not supposed to be closer than 8'
- to the ground.
.
Dave - For the Alpha Delta DX-B Sloper Antenna
Instructions Pages 9~12 for the Alpha Delta DX-B
1/4-Wave DX Sloper Antenna designed for the :
160, 80, 40 and 30 Meter Ham Bands.
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/pdf/DX-A-%20DX-B%20instructions.pdf
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/pg1.html
.
Alpha-Delta -asks-and-answers- Which is Better ?
The Quarter Wave Sloper ? -or- The Inverted-V Dipole ?
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/pdf/sloper_vs_inverted_v.pdf
.
Dave it would 'appear' that all your prior comments
are correct -wrt- the HAM Band Alpha Delta DX-B
Sloper Antenna. - iane ~ RHF
.
* Shortwave Radio Listeners (SWL) :
Are Your Antenna and Ground Really Working Together ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/fd1247fe0f23145b
.
* Stinking About the Alpha Delta DX-SWL
"Shortwave" Sloper Antenna -by- RHF
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/545f871c7b8e1258
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/c8b87d294a8e9970
.
.