Grundig Satellit 500 - Help needed
OnkyoMan
Hello... I am hoping fellow owners of the Sat 500 might point me in the
right direction. I have inherited a Grundig Satellit 500 in excellent
cosmetic condition. It has been used regularly up 2 weeks ago. I had
it my possession for a day, and it worked flawlessly.
However, it now has developed a problem. After a few seconds of normal
reception and audio, whatever station I am listening to disappears
completely - all I hear is white noise, as if there were no station on
that frequency whatsoever. All bands are like this... I cannot tune any
station on FM, MW, LW, or SW. It's as if there were no stations
whatsoever. All the other dials and buttons operate normally in this
condition... it's just that there are no stations.
If I then turn the unit off for a short while, 10 minutes or so, the
last tuned station returns for 2 or 3 seconds, then vanishes. If I
leave the receiver turned off for 6 or more hours, the station will come
back and play for 1 minute, but no more, and then all of the bands are
dead again.
Is this a problem anyone has heard of? It is very frustrating to deal
with as I was excited to finally have a Grundig receiver in my
possession. ]
If anyone has any tips or tricks, please let me know! They would be
most appreciated!
Thanks in advance,
OnkyoMan
--
OnkyoMan
Kevin Alfred Strom
It's likely that this is a thermal condition -- a component is
malfunctioning once it warms up.
If you're comfortable doing component-level repairs on what are
probably very small parts, you could operate the radio with its
circuitry exposed until the failure occurs, then carefully apply
freeze spray (available under various brand names from many
electronics suppliers) to components until you find the one that
restores functionality when sprayed. Then replace it. (If the
component is being stressed and overheated by a second defective
part, you'll have to find and replace the culprit too.)
It's also possible that this is a known failure mode for that model,
and someone here can tell you exactly what to do. Failing that,
search engines might reveal other owners who have had the same problem.
Of course, moving to a very cold place like Antarctica and using the
receiver outdoors might make repairs unnecessary.
With all good wishes,
Kevin, WB4AIO.
--
http://nationalvanguard.org/
http://kevinalfredstrom.com/
Larry
the service manual go here:
http://www.eserviceinfo.com/download.php?fileid=42874
To join a Yahoo group discussing this radio go here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/grundig_satellit/join
"OnkyoMan" <OnkyoMan...@radiobanter.com> wrote in message
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Larry
http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=grundig+500&sg=20&sort=relevance
3rd group from the bottom, page 3.
"Larry" <zud...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Larry
comes back!
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arthr...@webtv.net
Q : 1) Does the display show anything when it starts acting up ? 2)
Did you try using an external p/s and/or good batteries, and if so do
you get same response ? 3) Before taking it apart have you tried
cooling the whole radio by putting it in a fridge (not the freezer )
for a little while and see if the problem goes away (temporarily)?
OnkyoMan
Hello Larry! Thanks for your interest... I've got an account over at
radiobanter.com which is a Usenet portal, and it strips most of the
garbage that is spamming Usenet. The accounts there are free, and you
could message me there.
Otherwise, if you have any suggestions, please post them here on Usenet
and I can read them that way.
Thanks again for your help... I'm really in a bind with this problem!
OnkyoMan
'Larry[_8_ Wrote:
> ;737491']This email is bouncing (OnkyoMan...@radiobanter.com) ...
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--
OnkyoMan
dave
>> However, it now has developed a problem. After a few seconds of
>> normal
>> reception and audio, whatever station I am listening to disappears
>> completely - all I hear is white noise, as if there were no station on
>> that frequency whatsoever. All bands are like this... I cannot tune
>> any
>> station on FM, MW, LW, or SW. It's as if there were no stations
>> whatsoever. All the other dials and buttons operate normally in this
>> condition... it's just that there are no stations.
>>
>> If I then turn the unit off for a short while, 10 minutes or so, the
>> last tuned station returns for 2 or 3 seconds, then vanishes. If I
>> leave the receiver turned off for 6 or more hours, the station will
>> come
>> back and play for 1 minute, but no more, and then all of the bands are
>> dead again.
>>
>> Is this a problem anyone has heard of? It is very frustrating to deal
>> with as I was excited to finally have a Grundig receiver in my
>> possession. ]
>>
Sounds like a bad component. Do you have any freeze spray?
OnkyoMan
Hi Art... thanks for your interest... Here are my responses to your
questions:
Q : 1) Does the display show anything when it starts acting up ?
The display behaves normally during this problem.. I can change
frequencies, bands, and other options. The volume and everything else
works as well. It's only white noise that comes up... the station (and
all
stations) are gone.
2)
Did you try using an external p/s and/or good batteries, and if so do
you get same response ?
I have tried new akaline, and fully charged NiMH batteries.. several
sets.
They don't make a difference.
3) Before taking it apart have you tried
cooling the whole radio by putting it in a fridge (not the freezer )
for a little while and see if the problem goes away (temporarily)?
No! I haven't tried that yet, but I will give it a shot today and see
what happens! I'll report back here.
--
OnkyoMan
OnkyoMan
Yesterday, I left the radio out in my 40F degree garage for about 9
hours, then turned it on, while I was out there with it.
No difference in radio behavior... FM came in strong for 2 mins, then
disappeared. AM was completely dead.
Do you still think it could be thermal related?
--
OnkyoMan
arthr...@webtv.net
wrote:
It is too early tell . Have you tried using an External p/s and notice
any difference ? While powering it up can you measure the current and
notice if it is same as when it goes into the non-fuctional
condition ? Also , by tapping on the cabinet , is there an
intermittant connection somewhere ?
dave
I don't think you can find a fault that way. A cold solder joint or a
faulty component would be very localized. The current flows through some
abnormally high resistance and heats that area enough to deform it
relative to surrounding areas. If you freeze the whole thing, nothing
changes.
Kevin Alfred Strom
> I've gotten some advice that it might be a trimmer capacitor which has
> been known to go bad on these radios. Does that make sense as a
> possibility to any of you?
[...]
Probably not, because a trimmer would be unlikely to be in both the
FM and shortwave sections since they probably use totally separate
RF and IF amplifiers.
Whatever the cause is, it is in a section that is common to all bands.
Of course, carefully changing out a trimmer capacitor shouldn't
_hurt_ anything as long as you have the ability to readjust it
properly once installed. Also, there may be message threads
somewhere out there in cyberspace that describe the symptoms caused
by that particular trimmer.
Best of luck,
Brenda Ann
"Kevin Alfred Strom" wrote in message
news:201103220050.UTC.im8rpg$l3d$1...@tioat.net...
On 3/21/2011 2:43 PM, OnkyoMan wrote:
> I've gotten some advice that it might be a trimmer capacitor which has
> been known to go bad on these radios. Does that make sense as a
> possibility to any of you?
[...]
Probably not, because a trimmer would be unlikely to be in both the
FM and shortwave sections since they probably use totally separate
RF and IF amplifiers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't know about that, for sure. Don't all bands use the same PLL? There's a
trimmer on the crystal in the PLL that if it shorts would not let the PLL
run, so, no reception on any band.
arthr...@webtv.net
The original symptom was stated as : A) works for a few seconds B)
reception turns to Noise (and no audio) on all bands . When left in a
cold garage at 40* for 9 hours FM started to work for Whole Two
minutes ! Thermal as thermal can be .
dave
The radio wouldn't be dead. It just wouldn't tune, right?
arthr...@webtv.net
> to look for hot spots? I've got a Fluke 62 that was inexpensive and gives
> accurate no-touch readings.http://bit.ly/f8vdQe
> --
>
> http://bit.ly/g2PCII- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
If the trouble is 'thermal' it may just cause an open/erratic
operation . There is really not much there to get warm/hot , except a
voltage regulator or an audio output device .
OnkyoMan
Thank you for your suggestions!
It is starting to look a bit more like the problem might be centered the
trimmer capacitor. One user told me to simply rotate that capacitor a
bit,
and now the radio works perfectly on FM. SW and MW are still completely
dead though... the volume only amplifies the white noise.
Now I'm trying to ID a good source for trimmer capacitors. If anyone
has a suggestion, please let me know! I'd like to find a high quality
replacement, if possible.
Thanks,
Matt
--
OnkyoMan
D. Peter Maus
> Thank you for your suggestions!
>
> It is starting to look a bit more like the problem might be centered the
> trimmer capacitor. One user told me to simply rotate that capacitor a
> bit,
> and now the radio works perfectly on FM. SW and MW are still completely
> dead though... the volume only amplifies the white noise.
Check the antenna select switch, and the DX/Local switch. It
sounds like you have some oxidation in your unit. These switches, if
oxidized, will produce the very symptoms you describe, especially
true if FM is now working.
Throw these switches several times. Move the toggle in a circle
until you get some change in the noise.
I experience this regularly with my own Sat 500.
>
> Now I'm trying to ID a good source for trimmer capacitors. If anyone
> has a suggestion, please let me know! I'd like to find a high quality
> replacement, if possible.
>
IF it's working, you may not need one. It sounds like you have
oxidation on the rotor contact, which is preventing this trimmer
from completing it's circuit configuration. Now that you have it
working, move the rotor back and forth a few times, it will be fine
for quite a while.
> Thanks,
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
bpnjensen
> Check the antenna select switch, and the DX/Local switch. It
> sounds like you have some oxidation in your unit. These switches, if
> oxidized, will produce the very symptoms you describe, especially
> true if FM is now working.
>
> Throw these switches several times. Move the toggle in a circle
> until you get some change in the noise.
>
> I experience this regularly with my own Sat 500.
Could you get the same results with a squirt of cleaner in the switch
innards?
D. Peter Maus
You could. Wearing through the oxide is a better solution for
serveral reasons. Cleaners tend to dissolve, or at least soften,
existing lubricants within the switch, which can cause them to migrate
into contact areas, attracting dirt, rehardening into films that
interfere with contact. Or worse, creating corrosive elements by
chemical actions between the cleaner, the lubricants, and some airborne
crap. Which necessitates more frequent cleaning of the switch.
Eventually, replacement is required.
Cleaning may produce a result, but it often comes at a cost of
shorter switch life.
arthr...@webtv.net
Real switches have gold plating in the contacts . For real .
D. Peter Maus
Indeed they do.
And when those get noisy, it's because the base metal substrate
has migrated through the gold and oxidized. In which case
replacement is the only option.
At one station I worked, we bought a Harrison Pro 790 console for
the production studio. Tremendous console. But they cheaped out on
the switches.
I had to replace them all. Hundreds. They provided them for us.
And they were better switches than had been installed. But WHAT a PITA.
arthr...@webtv.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
C'est la vie .
OnkyoMan
Thanks again for the help guys... it turned out to be that trimmer
capacitor - C138. When I had opened the radio up, I had unintentionally
flipped the AGC switch on, setting it to its minimum setting. That is
what killed AM when I put everything back together!
Do you think this will it be a permanent fix, or does this mean the
capacitor is on its way out?
arthr...@webtv.net;739030 Wrote:
> On Mar 24, 8:47*am, "D. Peter Maus" dpeterm...@att.net wrote:-
> On 3/24/11 24:29 , arthrny...@webtv.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
> -
> On Mar 23, 5:03 am, "D. Peter Maus"DPeterM...@att.net *wrote:-
> On 3/22/11 23:18 , bpnjensen wrote:--
> --
> On Mar 22, 4:14 pm, "D. Peter Maus"dpeterm...@att.net * *wrote:--
> --
> * * *Check the antenna select switch, and the DX/Local switch. It
> sounds like you have some oxidation in your unit. These switches, if
> oxidized, will produce the very symptoms you describe, especially
> true if FM is now working.--
> --
> * * *Throw these switches several times. Move the toggle in a circle
> until you get some change in the noise.--
> --
> * * *I experience this regularly with my own Sat500.--
> --
> Could you get the same results with a squirt of cleaner in the switch
> innards?--
> --
> * * You could. Wearing through the oxide is a better solution for
> serveral reasons. Cleaners tend to dissolve, or at least soften,
> existing lubricants within the switch, which can cause them to
> migrate
> into contact areas, attracting dirt, rehardening into films that
> interfere with contact. Or worse, creating corrosive elements by
> chemical actions between the cleaner, the lubricants, and some
> airborne
> crap. Which necessitates more frequent cleaning of the switch.
> Eventually, replacement is required.--
> --
> * * Cleaning may produce a result, but it often comes at a cost of
> shorter switch life.--
> -
> Real switches have gold plating in the contacts . For real .-
>
> * *Indeed they do.
>
> * *And when those get noisy, it's because the base metal substrate
> has migrated through the gold and oxidized. In which case
> replacement is the only option.
>
> * *At one station I worked, we bought a Harrison Pro 790 console for
> the production studio. Tremendous console. But they cheaped out on
> the switches.
>
> * *I had to replace them all. Hundreds. They provided them for us.
> And they were better switches than had been installed. But WHAT a
> PITA.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text --
>
> C'est la vie .
--
OnkyoMan