What is good about the Panasonic RF-2200 radio?
Phil Langerholic
like to listen to KDKA AM 1020 during the day. I am not having any
luck receiving KDKA with my GE Super Radio III or DX-398 with a MW
TORUS-TUNER LOOP ANTENNA from Edek Electronics in MD that I picked up
at a local hamfest. York is about 220 miles east of the KDKA antenna
so I know I am pushing the ground wave limits.
I have seen some post in the NG raving about an old Panasonic RF-2200
radio calling it one of the best MW radios ever made. I have lurked
on the swap newsgroup for some time and have not seen anyone selling
that radio. I have looked on ebay, but I don't think a 25 year old
radio should sell for $150.00 to $250.00. Is this radio really that
good? For that money I could buy a new CC Radio or a Sony 7600G which
I would expect both to perform better than a 25 year old analog
receiver Would the RF-2200 perform better than the GE SRIII or DX-398
I currently have? Would I see better results with the RF-2200
compared to the CC Radio or Sony 7600G?
Phil Langerholic
Tom
Phil Langerholic <pdl...@pitt.edu> wrote in message
news:ghkrdt4prjm17ha1t...@4ax.com...
Phil, save your money. If you cannot receive it with the setup you have
tried, then you are not going to get it.
Tom
Nc183d
The RF2200 was the finest analog portable that Panasonic ever produced. The AM
antenna is directional, you don't have to turn the radio to improve reception,
turn the gyro-antenna. The gain is excellent. The FM reception may not be the
best in the world with the telescoping antenna, but there are hookups in the
back for external antennas. The sound is very good due to the speaker size,
not
tinny like most of todays solid -state stuff. It also has seperate bass and
treble control. It has 2 tuning speeds, dosn't need a seperate bandspread
dial. The price of $150- $250 is a little steep, but that's ePay.... You will
have a difficult time finding one on the NG's. They are snapped up immediately
upon posting.
The SR1 and SR2 may be better at AM reception, but usualy have dialcord
problems that have to be addressed. They are usually snapped up quickly also.
The SR3 is a dog.
If I can be of further service, let me know.
rgds,
Mark S.
Tom
Nc183d <nc1...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010418181213...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
Don't you mean if you can be of any further "disservice"? Answer the f*cking
question next time.
An RF2200 isn't going to do what the guy wanted. If he can't pick up the
station during the day on an SRIII or a DX398 with a loop, then he isn't
going to pick it up on a 2200! Get real here, if you understand radio, then
you must know this.
BTW, you are dead wrong in your assessment of the SRI, II, and III. For the
price, they are all quite "serviceable" and very similar in reception
capability. If one is a "dog", then they all are "dogs".
Tom
Skeptic
>I just moved out to York, PA from the Pittsburgh, PA area and I would
>like to listen to KDKA AM 1020 during the day. I am not having any
>luck receiving KDKA with my GE Super Radio III or DX-398 with a MW
>TORUS-TUNER LOOP ANTENNA from Edek Electronics in MD that I picked up
>at a local hamfest. York is about 220 miles east of the KDKA antenna
>so I know I am pushing the ground wave limits.
Yes, you're near the limits - depends on the ground conductivity, but you're
not exactly close. You're around 1/2 of a (fairly long) state away.
>I have seen some post in the NG raving about an old Panasonic RF-2200
>radio calling it one of the best MW radios ever made.
It is the best or 2nd best ever made by Panasonic, anyway. And I have yet to
find a portable that beats it overall, analog *or* digital. You want better
performance, you'll pretty much have to go to a desktop or a much larger
classic portable. Even then, you lose the rotatable antenna, and if you're
actually into medium wave DX'ing, you just haven't lived until you've got a
decent rotatable antenna! There are few things as annoying as finding that the
correct angle to hear a station at its best is sideways to your ear. That
*never* happens with the RF-2200, and very few radios can say that.
> I have lurked
>on the swap newsgroup for some time and have not seen anyone selling
>that radio.
:-)
Right. If you're an active listener, why would you get rid of one? It's a
killer radio. I got rid of my Sony 2010 and frankly don't miss much about it...
but I'd never get rid of my 2200, and if it dies, I'll be on EBay in a shot to
replace it - and I'll bid high.
> I have looked on ebay, but I don't think a 25 year old
>radio should sell for $150.00 to $250.00.
There are 25 year old radios that sell for thousands of dollars. Resale value
is ultimately based upon a radio's desirability. And there are very good
reasons that the RF-2200 is highly desirable compared to, for instance, an old
Sony with comparable features.
> Is this radio really that
>good?
You bet it is. I'd put it up against almost anything made today; I've put it up
against quite a few, including the ccradio, and it kicks their fannies. And I
own a *lot* of radios!
> For that money I could buy a new CC Radio or a Sony 7600G which
>I would expect both to perform better than a 25 year old analog
>receiver
No, not a chance. The 7600 is close, but not as good (and doesn't have a
directable Am antenna, which means it really sucks to use compared to the
RF-2200) and the ccradio is overhyped junk.
> Would the RF-2200 perform better than the GE SRIII or DX-398
>I currently have?
Yes. But would it pull in your stations? Probably not - from how you describe
your setup, they're beyond marginal. What you need, since these stations are
not in evidence at your location, is a serious antenna system, a really large
loop - then you'll have a better chance.
> Would I see better results with the RF-2200 compared to the CC Radio or Sony 7600G?
Yes. Plus it's easier to use, and it sounds better than both of them put
together (I'm speaking of the audio quality now.)
You asked what was good about it; I'll quote an earlier post I made for you:
-------------------------------------------------
Benefits:
=========
o well calibrated (10 KHz) AM dial - useful, accurate and repeatable
o dual IF bandwidths (appropriate for both DXing and high-quality listening)
o dual conversion (reduces IF images significantly)
o very, very stable - tune in once, then sit back and enjoy
o rotatable AM antenna (point radio at YOU, but antenna at STATION)
o AM antenna is marked in degrees for repeatability when station is not evident
o external antenna connectors - I've never needed these
o ferrite antenna very compatible with items like Kiwa loop
o very high sensitivity - you won't need that Kiwa very often... :-)
o excellent audio w/volume, bass & treble controls
o 3.5 inch speaker in large radio case provides VERY surprising quality
o high quality headphone drive
o tape recorder monitor output (constant level)
o extremely long battery life
o decent dial lighting
o RF gain
o S and battery condition meter
o fast and slow tuning dial speeds
o shortwave capability (3.9 MHz to 28 MHz), analog SW dial accurate to 5 KHz
o excellent monophonic FM section
o built-in SW and FM antenna is long, relatively sturdy whip
o quite portable, yet a substantially sized radio (under 8 lbs)
o detachable carrying strap, really very nice quality
o runs either off four D cells or directly from the wall (no "wall wart")
o it's a *really* nice looking piece of gear! (in my opinion, of course)
Issues we all could do without:
===============================
- no sync detector
- AGC is one speed, preset (though it's well chosen, in my estimation)
- no notch filter, IF or audio. Rarely needed on AM, but on SW... :-(
- for rtty/cw/fax etc., no SSB detector, just BFO (and like most BFO's, sucks)
- running off AC, if there's noise in the AC line, you'll hear it
- dial illumination is a momentary switch - will not stay on ***(but see below)
- cannot be purchased new (neither can anything even remotely similar)
- no DC power input (although 6 volts to batt terminals w/clips is trivial)
- S meter is not marked in S units/dB, it's just 1-10. But... S meters are
notoriously unrepeatable from radio to radio anyway, that's an inherent issue
that deals with radio sensitivity, antenna configurations, AGC, etc., and this
is finely marked if you're into keeping comparative records, so I'm almost
inclined to call this a matter of taste, though I would prefer S/dB, myself.
Issues that are a matter of taste:
==================================
- no memories (doesn't need them, IMHO, tuning is 100% repeatable and fun)
- no digital display (doesn't need it, tuning is 100% repeatable and accurate)
- at 8 lbs and the size of the GE SR III, might be too large (nah! FUN sized!)
Caveats:
========
o If you travel with it, you'll want a nice case for it. Lots of knobs and
things, and the AM rotatable antenna, are vulnerable to damage from impact with
the environment. I bought a generic pistol case, cut the foam to fit, and have
been happy ever since.
o it's black - never leave it in the sun, or you'll be MOST unhappy!
And...
======
...in addition to *two* RF-2200's, I own the CC Radio, a GE Superradio III, a
Sony 2010, and almost all the Panasonic RF-whatevers, up to the RF-8000
(arguably a desktop, but billed as a portable... I would NEVER take the RF-8000
on a trip, the thing is a flipping monster), as well as several very high
performance desktop radios including a Mckay-Dymeck DR33 Model C, my favorite
"retro" AM/SW receiver of all time. I've got some great HAM receivers too, my
personal favorite with general coverage being a Yaesu FT-980. That's the
comparative basis from which I make my recommendation of the RF-2200.
So why am I so "for" this radio?
Because the RF-2200 is by *far* the best all around performer of the portables
I own, without becoming "un-portable" the way the RF-8000 is (the RF-8000 is
arguably nothing less than an astonishing AM receiver, but... it'll give you a
hernia lugging it around.) The convenience of the built-in rotatable AM antenna
on the RF-2200 makes it so much more of a pleasure to use than any of the
actually portable others that it's the only one I'm willing to drag around with
me. The antenna "pops up" on top when you want to rotate it, and can then be
turned to any angle; so when you're lying in bed at home (or in a hotel
somewhere, common for me, or outside, if you're a camper) the radio faces you
naturally and the antenna is oriented towards the station you're currently
listening to. With most other radios, it only takes one time finding out that
the station you want turns the radio speaker away from you (not to mention the
controls) before you come to truly appreciate the rotatable antenna. The cool
thing is that in this radio, everything else is up to a reasonably high
standard too, so any kind of AM listening you do, be it DX'ing or long term
talk radio listening, is a most pleasant experience. The battery life is
extremely long, and that also makes it a very pleasant portable - you can leave
it on all night and it'll still be good to go for many tens of hours, so it
never flakes out on trips if you leave with good batteries in the first place.
That's because all the batteries run are a high-efficiency class AB audio amp
and the RF stages; no microprocessor, no digital display, no synthesizer, no
clock... the darned thing never seems to run out of juice. If you're an
occasional user, the real danger is that the batteries will fail chemically
and/or physically before they do electrically and puke some acid in the battery
compartment. Replace 'em with new batteries twice a year, whether they seem to
need it or not, and you're safe from that nasty event. I do it XMAS and 4th of
July - I have a large enough radio collection that this is a fair sized job for
me, and quite expensive, but it protects the investment and I'm really fairly
happy to do it for all my radios.
Finding 'Em:
============
The following search should find any RF-2200's on EBay. There don't appear to
be any there right now, which is actually unusual - they do show up with great
regularity because the resale value is so high...
...use this regularly for a few weeks and I'm sure you'll find one, or more
than one. ---> As with all EBay activity, if you want to bid, first make sure
the seller has plenty of feedback, understands everything that the item they
are selling is supposed to do, and warrants that it will do all of those things
when you receive it ("No DOA" isn't really good enough... you want "Works 100%
mechanically and electrically on arrival" - you can get that commitment via
email, usually, if the seller is a good one. If not, I wouldn't bid, but it's
up to you. :-) In particular, make sure the AM antenna pops up and down and
stays in either position with no problems. It's quite obviously not a handle,
but some people are ignorant enough to try to pick up the radio with it and
there are a lot of RF-2200's with broken AM antenna mounts out there as a
result. Once you get it, take good care of it and it'll likely serve you well
for many years. They're extremely well-made radios, in my opinion easily the
best feature / performance combination Panasonic ever shipped.
About the dial lamps:
=====================
*** I easily modified my "main" RF-2200 to use 120 degree diffusion white LEDs
for illumination, and added a simple digital "flip-flop + FET" circuit to make
the momentary dial illumination into an always-on / always-off feature. Since
the LED's draw a whole lot less current than the original lamps, this was both
convenient and increases the radio's utility and resistance to shock while not
challenging its battery life unduly - I usually leave the lighting on all the
time I'm playing with it now, and have not noticed any particular difference in
battery life... and with a 100,000 hour predicted life on the LEDs, I don't
worry about them, either. If I modify the other RF-2200 I have, I won't even
put in the flip-flop, I'll just wire them to the power switch. :-) You could
throw a CMOS 555 timer in there instead, and set it for ten or twenty minutes
on, that'd keep the irritation level down pretty well. One thing is sure,
eventually, those dial lights will burn out and you'll need to do something.
The momentary on / off design means the bulbs will take quite a lot of use,
though.
Matt Wilson
of luck.
"Tom" <tmo...@home.com> wrote in message
news:5AADDDCC58A88E2E.34AAE02A...@lp.airnews.net...
Skeptic
>Don't you mean if you can be of any further "disservice"? Answer the f*cking
>question next time.
Had too much coffee? Read the title of the message, which is a direct question:
"What is good about the Panasonic RF-2200 radio?"
...he addressed that question. Briefly and to the point.
Whereas your caustic answer really didn't do anyone any favors.
Chill out.
Phil Langerholic
<ath...@notbloodlylikely.com> wrote:
Skeptic and Ncd183,
Thanks for all of the great information on the RF-2200. I got home
around 4:00 today and tried to receive KDKA. I was able to hear a
vary faint signal that was clearly KDKA with my DX-398 and Loop
antenna. Unfortunately right now I am limited to only using a loop
antenna since I am in an apartment, but I will be taking advantage of
these low interest rates soon and should have more room to play :~}
I can hear KDKA trough the static on my Car Radio today, so I should
be able to get better reception with a better setup.
I think reason I am having so many problems receiving KDKA is because
of the mountains about 70 miles west of Pittsburgh. I think most of
the ground wave reception dies there.
I do have some hope now that I was able to hear KDKA through the
static today. My wife said she just heard static, but I could hear
it! :~}
I don't want to knock the SRIII, but I don't like needing to find the
station on my DX-398 just so I hear what is on that station so I can
tune it in on the GE. The tuner scailing is terrible on the GE!. I
still think it is a great radio for listening to baseball games.....
From the pictures I have seen of the RF-2200, it looks like the tuner
scailing is very accurate. Is the gyro antenna inside the radio?
I think I'll have to keep looking for a good deal for one....
Thanks for the help...
Phil L.
b1377
As I have previously stated:
The RF-2200 is quite a Bang-For-The-Buck receiver. It's the one that
makes me question the ability of my DX398 and R75 - no slouches there.
They might be better, but not dramatically so.
Item 1: The rotatable AM antenna is typical of this this reciever's
ingenuity. Nice fer nulling out interference.
Item 2: Novice-Freindliness. Witness the tuner "Scroll"'s band
markings. All of your bands are clearly marked.
Item 3: An unexpected bonus was it's FM superiority (pulled in FM
weaklings it had no right to).
Item 4: The excellent audio from the single 3 1/2" speaker that was an
excellent surrogate for a (not too shabby) Sanyo Boombox whilst it was
being repaired. Sure, no stereo, but excellent mono.
Item 5: Separate bass/treble controls that optimized the audio of a
difficult-to-copy signal. They spent a hell of a lot more$$$ on the
audio than did recent heros (PLEASE don't make me mention names) .
Item 6: Decent (if not exceptional) Wide/Narrow filters. Attenuated
the crap without (seriously) hampering reception of the desired
signal. Try getting that today on a unmodified reciever in a
comparable price range.
KEN8038
>station on my DX-398 just so I hear what is on that station so I can
>tune it in on the GE. The tuner scailing is terrible on the GE!.
I agree. Assuming there's just a few stations you regularly tune into on the
GE, just jot down their exact dial locations (eg 1.4, 3.5 etc) on an index
card. This is what I do and it helps. Pretty soon you've got them memorized.
--Ken
The Johnsons
But you sure wouldn't want to use it as a handle as it would break
off. It swivels. Really nulls and peaks.
The dial scale is quite accurate. Both of mine are very accurate at
the low end. When you get up to around 1500 and higher, it becomes a
tad less accurate but pretty close.
The audio is very good on this radio. Outstanding battery life also.
Officially, they only cover up to 1605 - but mine go up to 1680.
They go regularly on E-Bay in the $175-200 range.
Okay, for your GE SR3 - get a pack of removeable labels (Avery
#05454). Cut 2 thin strips and cover the log scale. Take a pencil and
mark the frequencies. I mark every 50 kHz (600, 650, 700......).
Sure, it's low tech but it makes the radio a lot more fun to use. I
will admit that there are times when I have to "confirm" actual
frequency with a digital - but not often.
Russ
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 20:39:45 -0400, Phil Langerholic <pdl...@pitt.edu>
wrote:
>On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:08:25 -0600, Skeptic
Skeptic
>On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:08:25 -0600, Skeptic
><ath...@notbloodlylikely.com> wrote:
>
>Skeptic and Ncd183,
>
>Thanks for all of the great information on the RF-2200.
You're most welcome.
> I got home
>around 4:00 today and tried to receive KDKA. I was able to hear a
>vary faint signal that was clearly KDKA with my DX-398 and Loop
>antenna.
Ah-HA! Now you've got some hope!
> Unfortunately right now I am limited to only using a loop
>antenna since I am in an apartment, but I will be taking advantage of
>these low interest rates soon and should have more room to play :~}
Have you considered building a bigger loop? All other things being equal,
larger antennas pull in more signal - and closed loop designs don't add noise,
other than noise that's actually on-frequency, coming in just like the signal.
There are a number of easy loop designs floating around on web pages.
Also, see if you can get at a cold water pipe that isn't PVC - it needs to be
metal; or a metallic structural member of your apartment building. A good
ground can reduce the background noise, and that in turn can make a really weak
station more listenable.
One grounding "trick" when you're stuck with PVC pipes is to jam a copper wire
into the cold water faucet, and let the water run very slowly. The chlorine in
the water gets you a moderately good connection, and you've got a ground that
leads all the way to the pumping station. ;-)
Another way IF you have metal faucets (which most of us do,) although a little
more elaborate, it doesn't recycle so much water, is to put a small bucket
under the cold water faucet that is taller than the faucet mouth. Run the water
till the bucket is full PAST the faucet, so the faucet tip is "drowned." Turn
off the water, put about a teaspoon of salt in the water, drop your ground wire
in it, and you're good to go with a solid ground - the water doesn't have to
keep running.
Oh, the things we'll do to hear DX... :-)
>I can hear KDKA trough the static on my Car Radio today, so I should
>be able to get better reception with a better setup.
Yep. Another thing, a loop will pick up less trash than a whip, just about
every time. Even when its picking up more signal.
>I think reason I am having so many problems receiving KDKA is because
>of the mountains about 70 miles west of Pittsburgh. I think most of
>the ground wave reception dies there.
Could be some of it, though you more run into issues with underground (like
tunnels) than you do hills on MW. It more has to do with the condition of the
ground, moisture and soil conductivity - your mountains might have a shallow
and dry soil cover.
Just remember: If you can get X signal over a loop of Y physical size, you'll
get 2X signal on a loop of 2Y physical size, but you won't get 2X noise... (If
someone would make a huge ferrite bar antenna, I'd be standing in line to buy
one of the first ones... maybe about four feet long, you could still turn that
indoors in almost any room, unless you've been banished to the closet...
probably need carbon fiber or fiberglass to support it, it'd be a pretty thin
piece of ferrite... :-)
>I do have some hope now that I was able to hear KDKA through the
>static today. My wife said she just heard static, but I could hear
>it! :~}
As long as you're certain. Sometimes we hear what we want to hear in static.
:-)
>I don't want to knock the SRIII, but I don't like needing to find the
>station on my DX-398 just so I hear what is on that station so I can
>tune it in on the GE. The tuner scailing is terrible on the GE!. I
>still think it is a great radio for listening to baseball games.....
Dial accuracy is for poop on those things. Does yours drift? I bought three of
them, they all drifted like they were drunk. I'd have to re-tune them every
five or ten minutes. Don't even bother with them any more.
>From the pictures I have seen of the RF-2200, it looks like the tuner
>scailing is very accurate.
For an analog portable at this price point (even now,) it is phenomenal.
> Is the gyro antenna inside the radio?
No. It sits on top of the radio, folded about 1/2 way into the top of the
chassis. When you want to use it (assuming you want to rotate it) you flip it
up, and it stands above the top of the radio like a hot dog mounted 90 degrees
sideways on a post at its middle. You just turn it to the angle that gets you
the best reception, or nulls out the worst of the interference, and you're all
done. Couldn't be easier.
>I think I'll have to keep looking for a good deal for one....
I've seen them go for $125, but not too often. I've also seen them break $200
in auctions repeatedly. Depends on who is bidding. You might put out a request
to buy one here, and see if someone you feel you can trust is willing to part
with one. Maybe they've got a CRF-320 now or something else so fabulous that
the 2200 has become the "other" radio...
Bill Meacham
> (If
> someone would make a huge ferrite bar antenna, I'd be standing in line to buy
> one of the first ones... maybe about four feet long, you could still turn that
> indoors in almost any room, unless you've been banished to the closet...
> probably need carbon fiber or fiberglass to support it, it'd be a pretty thin
> piece of ferrite... :-)
How 'bout this?
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/page2.htm
---
Bill Meacham
Vieques, PR
Skeptic
>How 'bout this?
>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/page2.htm
Yeah, that's the general idea - it's just really large (1 inch) compared to a
ferrite core design. I had in mind something about as thick as a straw, but
rigid for strength, and broadbanded so you didn't have to tune it. Either that,
or some freaky method to tune it using the radios own tuning caps, though
that'd surely involve huge hackage... I find it annoying to retune my loops
every time I move even a little bit. My Kiwa is a good example. Man, is that
thing peaky!
I'd like to mount a rotatable MW antenna on my roof, actually... make it
*really* big. ;-) It's the tuning issue that stops me from just doing it. Need
some servos, a cap, a box, remote control for the servos... etc. One of my
buddies is an RC car freak - I wonder if he would have some ideas on that...
hmmm....
Ah, radio. Fun, fun, fun!
Skeptic
wrote:
>The dial scale is quite accurate. Both of mine are very accurate at
>the low end. When you get up to around 1500 and higher, it becomes a
>tad less accurate but pretty close.
The actual frequency to dial correspondence is set by one trimmer cap at the
high end, and by one coil at the low end... I bet you could get that thing just
about spot on - mine is. Ideally, they align so that if there is any
significant inaccuracy at all (meaning, about 5 KHz), it'll be in the middle of
the dial, not at either end. Mine is off by no more than what amounts to maybe
twice the dial backlash, which I am delighted with. :-)
Remember to re-peak the RF amp cap too; if the dial positioning changes, so
will the RF amp alignment.
Of course, if it's properly aligned, you might lose a little of that overshoot
on the high end you mentioned...
Tom Morse
My apologies, but I really do think that the main emphasis of the question
was the reception of the radio station that was 200+ miles distant. Reread
it and let me know what you think.
Tom
"Skeptic" <ath...@notbloodlylikely.com> wrote in message
news:fn7sdtsa16ohhtb8n...@4ax.com...
Bradley S. Stone
but not awesome. The audio IS awesome. However, on sideband, it's too
drifty. A very nice radio, well worth $250 in my book. Definately better
than the GE SuperRadio series for MW. These distinctive portables are truly
becoming collectible.
Also agree that Phil will have the same problem with the RF-2200, given his
location and antenna.
73
Brad
"Skeptic" <ath...@notbloodlylikely.com> wrote in message
news:4q6sdtcl2p32fsool...@4ax.com...
Skeptic
>My apologies, but I really do think that the main emphasis of the question
>was the reception of the radio station that was 200+ miles distant. Reread
>it and let me know what you think.
I tend to agree. I even answered it that way, myself, along with the same kind
of "what's it good for" stuff the other guy did. But the subject is a valid
question. He wasn't out of line in answering just that, I think.
Proof of the pudding? He answered and thanked us both. So it must not have been
all that awful for him to run into that message, eh? <grin>
Anyway, no big deal. Hey, if it's on-topic (radio), we should probably
encourage it anyway. Darwin knows the group needs as much radio-oriented
posting as possible, or at least posting with some sane reasoning behind it...
iggy_49
Skeptic, can you pass along info on how to
perform the LED light mod to the Panasonic
RF-2200?
Skeptic
I don't have any photos or anything; I kind of did it freehand. The whites leds
I used were rated at 20 ma, so I subtracted the forward voltage drop from the 6
volts the radio uses, and stuck a resistor in there to limit to 20 ma... turned
out to be a bit high (the resistor) so I only ended up with about 15 ma, but
the leds were still quite bright. Just wire 'em to the power switch and the
battery, is my suggestion, you don't have to go to all the sillyness I did, 20
ma per light source is nothing for a D battery.
I also have another RF-2200; I promise to mod it soon, and when I do, I'll take
some photos, and I'll post 'em on a web page. Gimme a couple weeks or so.
In the meantime, find yourself some 120 degree white leds. Don't get the
"beamy" ones, that 120 degree diffusion makes all the difference in the world
as an illumination source. Get a few of 'em; they're fun ti play with.
There are some web sites out there that sell 'em; head over to Google and
search on "white leds"
NANCY GIANAKOPOULOS
Sensitivity is ok, but I would probably get the SRIII. You will probably
need to go through the alignment procedure on the GE unit, since many of
them suffered from casual alignment. Newer units may be better in this
respect. Getting back to the 2200.............I have had a few of them over
the years. The shortwave ranges suffer from 4MHz images, probably due to
the poor front-end selectivity.
If you can find one for around 100 dollars, you would be doing ok; it really
is a cool looking radio. On a final note, one radio that is really good for
MW dxing from that era is the Sony ICFSW-5. Once you add an external
antenna trimmer to this radio, it works great. The reason that you need to
do this is because the radio doesn't track very well across the band, so
sensitivity and RF selectivity varies as you tune across the dial.
Pete Gianakopoulos
Chicago, Il.
Phil Langerholic <pdl...@pitt.edu> wrote in message
news:ghkrdt4prjm17ha1t...@4ax.com...
Tom
NANCY GIANAKOPOULOS <n.giana...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:SsOD6.7788$hH3.7...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> The 2200 isn't a bad MW radio, for a unit that has only 2-gang tuning.
> Sensitivity is ok, but I would probably get the SRIII. You will probably
> need to go through the alignment procedure on the GE unit, since many of
> them suffered from casual alignment. Newer units may be better in this
> respect. Getting back to the 2200.............I have had a few of them
over
> the years. The shortwave ranges suffer from 4MHz images, probably due to
> the poor front-end selectivity.
> If you can find one for around 100 dollars, you would be doing ok; it
really
> is a cool looking radio. On a final note, one radio that is really good
for
> MW dxing from that era is the Sony ICFSW-5.
Absolutely! You never hear much about it, but that was an awesome radio. Do
you ever see any for sale? I have had mine a long time and would never part
with it.
Tom
Mike Knudsen
a few years ago for $50, talked him down to $40 since the antenna was partly
broken (aren't they all?). It's a fun radio, from the transition era between
mechanical analog tuning and digital readout.
As a Ham collector of big old receivers, I really like the 2200, with its
(attempted) linear tuning and mechanical calibration tricks. I agree, the 4
MHz bleed-trhu from adjacent SW bands is a problem. But it's plenty sensitive
on all bands, very good on AM-BC and FM too. Hard to believe it's only a
two-gang tuning capacitor. But it's a real metal capactiro, not the cheap
little plastic pocket-transistor stuff that Panasonic put in the later RF-2X00
series models.
After enjoying the RF-2200 for a while, I got hooked and bought some of those
later models from eBay. They're bigger, sound a little better, and more
convenient to tune with that digital counter readout, but somehow they just
don't seem to work as well. Their cheap little tuning cap must have something
to do with it -- and it's still just two gangs.
I also have the big table model of that Panasonic era -- forget the model
number, but it's the earlier one. I think RF-4800. In some ways a good set,
others not.
If I could keep only one Panasonic I'd hang on to the RD-2200 -- it's the most
unusual and high-tech looking, and tunes like a Collins ham set.
Any ideas where I can get a replacement antenna? 73, Mike K.
Life is a game. Play to enjoy!
Tom
>
> NANCY GIANAKOPOULOS <n.giana...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:SsOD6.7788$hH3.7...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> really
> > is a cool looking radio. On a final note, one radio that is really good
> for
> > MW dxing from that era is the Sony ICFSW-5.
>
> Absolutely! You never hear much about it, but that was an awesome radio.
Do
> you ever see any for sale? I have had mine a long time and would never
part
> with it.
>
> Tom
To clear up any confusion I am talking about the Sony not the Panasonic.
Tom
Skeptic
>As a Ham collector of big old receivers, I really like the 2200, with its
>(attempted) linear tuning and mechanical calibration tricks. I agree, the 4
>MHz bleed-trhu from adjacent SW bands is a problem. But it's plenty sensitive
>on all bands, very good on AM-BC and FM too. Hard to believe it's only a
>two-gang tuning capacitor.
If you look at the RF2200 front-end design, both physically and in the
electronic sense, you'll see there was a lot of care taken. While there is a
lot to be said for good multiple-stage RF front ends, the fact is that most
multiple stage systems aren't that well designed; they're trying to get more
crappy stages to do what they might have done with fewer good stages if they
were better engineers. Adding stages can just be adding problems (as can adding
more IF conversions, something manufacturers like Icom and Kenwood should have
learned by now!)
I want to digress for a moment into an area that relates to this issue which is
part of my own technical background: VHF tuner design.
If you look hard at the Marantz 2130 tuner front end design, which by its
technical merits can be argued for as one of, perhaps the, best FM tuner ever
made (it severely whips the modern "audiophile" units, the Magnum Dynalab FT
series, for instance, as well as the almost mythical performance of the 10B in
almost every respect... in fact it whips everything I've been able to compare
it against, and I'm a maniacal high-end tuner collector) you'll find a simple
two stage front end, where tuned circuits are quite cleverly shared between the
stages, reducing the need for the extra gangs found in tuners that tried (and
failed) to reach the performance levels defined by this amazing piece of gear.
One good example of such an attempt is the Technics ST9030 tuner; multiple
double-tuned differential RF stages, a tuning cap gang set from hell - eight in
total - a really trick mixer - what an amazing pile of VHF hardware! The
schematic reads like the wiring diagram for the space shuttle. And what did you
get for all this technical whiz-bang-flash-hoohah? No more sensitivity, higher
intermod, a less steep quieting slope, and amazingly, more vulnerability to
images, the very last thing you would anticipate with all that tune-o-magical
front-endery supposedly keeping trash away from the mixer. It turns out that
the RF stages, though all double-tuned, have some pretty poor selectivity
characteristics, even way out of the frequency selected - poor ultimate
selectivity. And to add insult to injury, this tuner had those most grievous of
operational design errors, muting was forced on you if you listened in stereo
and the IF bandwidths switched uncontrollably on weak signals. It all just goes
to definitively show that sometimes, less is more.
The 2130/st9030 comparison is one of the most profound examples I can think of
where fine electronic design, with less implementation of what "everyone knows
is best" reigned superior, and easily, too. BTW, I own both of these tuners
(and over 100 others.)
> But it's a real metal capactiro, not the cheap
>little plastic pocket-transistor stuff that Panasonic put in the later RF-2X00
>series models.
Yes, and the metal ones are demonstrably more stable mechanically, more
repeatable (which means you get to KEEP your alignments after you make them!),
easier to service, and simply more robust physically than those little plastic
wafer-stacks.
>After enjoying the RF-2200 for a while, I got hooked and bought some of those
>later models from eBay. They're bigger, sound a little better,
There's nothing like a big case (except a waveguide...) to help out a small
speaker!
> and more
>convenient to tune with that digital counter readout, but somehow they just
>don't seem to work as well.
In fact, they don't. Even Panasonic's published specs will tell you that. The
2800 and 2900 in particular are subject to birdies and white noise from the
counter module (these are still true analog receivers... they have counters,
not synthesizers.)
> Their cheap little tuning cap must have something
>to do with it -- and it's still just two gangs.
Even circuit board layout makes a difference; as do proximities of components
to each other, shielding, distance from the front and rear panels... Ever
notice the wacky variations in performance you get with the Sonys, even the
2010, which is a pretty solid design physically speaking? Tune in something on
SW, and then move your hand around the back of the receiver... you can usually
hear wide performance changes... try that on one of the tiny handheld guys, and
you'll *really* see what proximity issues can do to (or for, interestingly
enough) performance. Some radios change performance when you squeeze them, some
are rock solid. That's all about physical design and shielding - not electronic
issues you can see on a schematic. Some designs are great in the lab, but put
them in a production layout in such a way as to be easy to build, and you may
find your design is more of an unpredictable oscillator than a good stable RF
management system... :-)
I've seen it go the other way, too. We had a digital graphics device we built
that did some fairly unusual things that required a LOT of logic; we had it in
a metal box with ferrite on all the leads, the usual incantations against RF
leakage, and what a noisy mess that was. We (the engineers) had to tell the
mucky-mucks that we were very much afraid that it'd never get thru consumer
level FCC. They really wanted to try though, so we redesigned the PCB for
production at a fairly high cost, built a reasonable (meaning, it could be
produced for a reasonable amount of money) cabinet for it, and lo and behold,
the darned thing was very quiet - and it passed the first time. It turned out
that in the final layout, a couple of long traces with opposite phase signals
got run opposite each other, and the damned things cancelled each other out,
not something I would have anticipated or designed for.
>I also have the big table model of that Panasonic era -- forget the model
>number, but it's the earlier one. I think RF-4800. In some ways a good set,
>others not.
Yeah, I have that and the 4900 in my collection too. Very pretty, indeed. But
not particularly great radios.
>If I could keep only one Panasonic I'd hang on to the RD-2200 -- it's the most
>unusual and high-tech looking, and tunes like a Collins ham set.
Yeah, tuning it is fun - all the more so because it's so reliable, reasonable,
and easily handled. There's a great deal of satisfaction in knowing that the
accuracy is something you can have an effect on in day to day use - if you're
careful about how you work the radio, it will jump through hoops for you. I
like that a lot.
>Any ideas where I can get a replacement antenna? 73, Mike K.
Panasonic still had them last time I needed one (several years now) have you
tried the service department? That's a big old whip, larger than most radios,
but it's still "just a whip."
>Life is a game. Play to enjoy!
And: Make, and play with a great team - your family - and play to win! :-)
Mike Knudsen
Yes, I've seen radios that performed much better, or worse, than their simple
or elaborate block diagram would suggest. I've got some tube SW receivers with
one RF stage that blow away some others with two. And I have an early Norelco
5-transistor AM portable (converter, one IF) that "thinks" it has an RF stage
and at least 2 IFs. Q of coils, quality of active devices, choice of bias
points, who knows?
I've heard that modern receivers use low-noise, high dynamic range mixers and
do away with RF stages altogether, and maybe no bandpass filtering except
low-pass to keep VHF out. Of course these are up-converting to something like
70 MHz 1st IF.
Sometimes I wonder if too many conversions bruise the signal. I have some
triple-conversion tube sets, and some transistor jobs too, and some of these
sound really good, while others do bruise the audio. But I wonder if it isn't
just poor detectors and bad allocation of signal levels throughout the IF
chain, so clipping takes place somewhere?
My Racal RA-17 Wadley tube set doesn't sound too good with its triple
conversion, and its solid-state equivalent is worse. But the cute little FRG-7
sounds crisp and solid, as does the underrated Drake SSR-1. And the Barlow
portable is excellent sounding, when it's working :-) These are all Wadley
Loop triple-conversion jobs, so the number of conversions may not be what
affects the audio.
I have the top-of-the-line Heathkit FM tuner, and its dual RF stages don't seem
to do all that well pulling in weak signals. Of course anything with MOSFETs
is always suspected of having a bad device somewhere.
I like your sotry about the signal leads cancelling each other out. Sort of
like ECL balanced logic -- I used to design circuit boards with that. The joke
was that ECL designs always worked the first time, since we were so afraid of
it that we did everything by the book.
I think the 4800 and 4900 table tops use the Drake rather than the Collins
system -- they mix the crystal and VFO freqs to produce a variable local
oscillator frequency, rather than using a tunable or broadband IF. Not quite
sure how the RF-2x00 portables work, but I think it's more like Collins. Never
seen a service (or user) manual for these.
You have any of those big Sony portables with the linear dial, that sold for a
grand new and still do used? How about the Grundig Satellit 5000 with three
tuners?
Say, is this the best newsgroup to discuss the technical aspects of SW radios,
especially the classic solid-staters?
73, Mike K.
Skeptic
>Terrific posting by Skeptic, too long to quote, but he makes many good points.
That's very kind of you to say; thank you.
>Sometimes I wonder if too many conversions bruise the signal.
There certainly is a lot of opportunity for problems; it can be done well, and
like anything, it can be done poorly. Unfortunately, radios are as prone as
anything else to "catch-phrase" marketing. And most of us perk right up when we
see a triple or quadruple or octuple ;-) conversion receiver, or really any new
"high-end" features from a familiar manufacturer. Look at the latest NRD; that
thing has every bell and whistle on the planet, but all things considered, it's
not much of a radio to listen to. I often wonder if the engineering manager
there has a tin ear. I'm considering selling mine... my old Yaesu FT-980 eats
it for lunch. But... The problem with being a collector is to at least part of
my mind, it doesn't MATTER if it's a lousy performer, it's part of "the
collection" and it's really tough to get rid of 'em. I got rid of one of my
2010's, and even though I still have one new in the box, it pained me
considerably. My mom used to call me a magpie, and I'm afraid she was quite
right. :-)
I like Yaesu a lot (and truly regret that they never went after the midsize
portable market as exemplified by the Sony 2010, Panasonic RF-2200, and The
bigger Sangeans.) Sony RF designs are also very respectable (though I have many
quibbles with their operating philosophy), and Icom and Kenwood have made some
really, really nice base-styled radios.
As I see it, Panasonic in particular made some fine portable radios, and some
not-very-fine radios - everything from the RF9000 at the "We're insane, and
we'll prove it" level, to cute little portables and low to middle end units in
between like the 2200, 2800, 2900 which I think represent some of the best
price/performance balances you can find in portables. I prefer the 2200 as it
performs well and has a technical appeal lacking from the other two.
> I have some
>triple-conversion tube sets, and some transistor jobs too, and some of these
>sound really good, while others do bruise the audio. But I wonder if it isn't
>just poor detectors and bad allocation of signal levels throughout the IF
>chain, so clipping takes place somewhere?
I would think that the causes are as varied as the circuit designs. Could even
be misalignment. I can't tell you how many radios and hi-fi tuners I've lit
into right out of the box and found that they were either never aligned at all,
or they were aligned in such an offhand manner that it might as well never have
been done. In fact, one area that is almost *always* this was is the MW section
of almost any hifi tuner, Rotel being a notable and very rare exception. It
only takes about five minutes, you'd think they'd want to make the best
impression possible on their customers, but... I dunno. Peculiar, to say the
least.
>My Racal RA-17 Wadley tube set doesn't sound too good with its triple
>conversion, and its solid-state equivalent is worse. But the cute little FRG-7
>sounds crisp and solid
Yes, the "frog" is a fabulous radio. Clever, and unusual, too.
>, as does the underrated Drake SSR-1. And the Barlow
>portable is excellent sounding, when it's working :-)
I've never run into one of those; was always very curious, my thinking being
something along the lines of those folks were responsible for that neat 30 mhz
PLL lock thingamajig, and I'd like to think they'd do a good job of it. But
Yaesu, mother of the frog, is no slouch when it comes to RF design, and I love
my frog, just like most owners, I suspect.
>I have the top-of-the-line Heathkit FM tuner, and its dual RF stages don't seem
>to do all that well pulling in weak signals. Of course anything with MOSFETs
>is always suspected of having a bad device somewhere.
Usually easy to fix, plus you can get modern mosfets with lower noise figures,
that never hurts, and if you've got a good FM antenna, you can reap the
benefits immediately.
>I like your sotry about the signal leads cancelling each other out. Sort of
>like ECL balanced logic -- I used to design circuit boards with that. The joke
>was that ECL designs always worked the first time, since we were so afraid of
>it that we did everything by the book.
Heh heh heh. Yeah, same thing with the second generation high speed schottky
stuff and early DRAM designs... any undershoot, and your memory would flake
like nobody's business. You quickly learned to be vewwwwy vewwwwy conservative.
:-)
>You have any of those big Sony portables with the linear dial, that sold for a
>grand new and still do used?
I have a CRF-320, if that's what you mean. It's a nice radio.
> How about the Grundig Satellit 5000 with three tuners?
I don't own a single Grundig. The only one I ever wanted was that huge
console-looking thing; they did an anniversary remake recently... I heard that
as a young man, was very impressed. Actual audio quality in a shortwave radio,
imagine that. :-) I want an original, not the remake.
>Say, is this the best newsgroup to discuss the technical aspects of SW radios,
>especially the classic solid-staters?
I dunno, we could argue about religion, I'm always up for that. ;-)
-------------------
If life is a game, is the idea of god like a black jack dealer? Odds are skewed
towards the house, and you're not allowed to count the cards? :-)
-------------------
Here's a topic, if you'd like to launch off into the wild blue yonder...
Ever think about all the features you'd like to have on a radio? Lets say it's
an AM/FM/LW/SW portable. Leave VHF out of it for now, just 150 KHz to 30 MHz
and FM broadcast. Portable or not ->
o outrageous performance, of course, and...
o Analog or digitally synthesized?
o Multiple receive, maybe a built-in phase compensator for low-level noise o
subtraction?
o Squelch
o AGC rate
o RF gain
o multiple IF bandwidths, or continuously variable?
o True SSB and CW modes, maybe even RTTY and AMTOR and the other TORs
o Narrow band FM
o Adjustable band FM (weather FAX!)
o Rotatable AM loop (of course!)
o Panadaptor on a separate circuit so your receive AGC does't pump it
o Memories, VFOs, banks, favorites, priorities
o Multiple monitor channels so you could watch for bands coming alive
(I'm imagining a band of 30 LEDs, each of which represents a special
memory channel... off, green, yellow, red... you pick a freq for
each channel, and the radio runs thru these with a dedicated
receiver, and sets the leds based on s-meter readings for the
channels you pick... you could watch the whole spectrum, sort
of... maybe an LED per 100 Khz... gah... a band-panadaptor)
o Notch (IF *and* audio), both freq and width controls
o parametric tone controls, maybe three or four bands
o multiplex blend
o S-metering
o Deviation metering
o Multipath metering - maybe a scope, like the Marantz units?
o Adjustable loudness contour
o record output
o digital audio recorder with a few hundred megs of ram
o DSP IF, or a wallet-load of IF hardware?
o preselector?
o RF front end insertion points for user filters?
o Lighting?
o DC to DC converter so it could run off "anything", including random solar
voltages
o computer interface?
o remote control?
o looks so you could put it on your stereo (mckay dymeck dr33, for instance)
o calibration (for instance, to set your s-meter from the front panel)
o antenna noise bridge?
o antenna tuner?
o multiple (like, 8 of 'em) antenna selector?
o AFC?
o tuning rate/steps etc
o integral case (like the RF9000 or an old Zenith)
o a noise blanker suite?
o synch detector?
o FM choice of ratio, discriminator, pulse count detectors?
o FM separation metering? Maybe a scope, like the Marantz tuners?
o ... ???
renegadetheo...@gmail.com
renegadetheo...@gmail.com
> I just moved out to York, PA from the Pittsburgh, PA area and I would
> like to listen to KDKA AM 1020 during the day. I am not having any
> luck receiving KDKA with my GE Super Radio III or DX-398 with a MW
> TORUS-TUNER LOOP ANTENNA from Edek Electronics in MD that I picked up
> at a local hamfest. York is about 220 miles east of the KDKA antenna
> so I know I am pushing the ground wave limits.
>
> I have seen some post in the NG raving about an old Panasonic RF-2200
> radio calling it one of the best MW radios ever made. I have lurked
> on the swap newsgroup for some time and have not seen anyone selling
> that radio. I have looked on ebay, but I don't think a 25 year old
> radio should sell for $150.00 to $250.00. Is this radio really that
> good? For that money I could buy a new CC Radio or a Sony 7600G which
> I would expect both to perform better than a 25 year old analog
> receiver Would the RF-2200 perform better than the GE SRIII or DX-398
> I currently have? Would I see better results with the RF-2200
> compared to the CC Radio or Sony 7600G?
>
> Phil Langerholic
George
Some thoughts:
o Line of site is out. Dist to horizon for tower ht h earth radius R
is sqrt((R+h)^2-R^2) or sqrt( 2 R h + h^2 ), effectively sqrt( 2 R h ).
For units of miles sqrt(2 R) is approx 90 and sqrt(2 R h) is the same.
So for two towers a mile high, each is 90 mi from horizon for a
total of 180 mi. For ht of 0.1 mi (528') each, get 180 * .316 or
about 57 mi total.
o A loop, maybe tuned for that frequency and raised very high might
be an improvement
o If you have sources of interference nearby, you could try nulling
them out with a notch filter.
o You could try a search for "web sdr pa". One match is
http://k3fef.com:8901/ in Milford, PA. From there if I select
AM and "All bands" I can find the label KDKA 1020 and select that
frequency. Then I choose "One band" and zoom in.
Seems to be an extremely weak signal but no sound available on this
laptop at the moment [the text for the KDKA label has "[Night]"
appended to it so they aren't expecting daytime reception].
Also look for WebSDR's in neighboring states (Ohio, Kentucky, WV?).
George
> Some thoughts:
>
> o Line of site is out. Dist to horizon for tower ht h earth radius R
> is sqrt((R+h)^2-R^2) or sqrt( 2 R h + h^2 ), effectively sqrt( 2 R h ).
> For units of miles sqrt(2 R) is approx 90 and sqrt(2 R h) is the same.
