DEGEN DE1108 worldband receiver is now in preliminary design stage, any one has recommends on it?

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leowo...@msn.com

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Jan 31, 2005, 11:11:07 AM1/31/05
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The designer(also the main engineer of DE1103 & Grundig SAT800) now ask
advise of the receiver function from BCLer, the DE1108 will be the
high-end receiver of DE 110X series, it comes with a large dot matrix
LCD display(128*64) two way speaker system, MP3 recorder, AM sync
detector, SSB, dual conversion, the reference basis is SAT700, it
should has better performance than sony 2001D, 7600G, SW77 even SAT700,
the outline dimensions will be large than SAT700,pls post your thougts
here, I will take the message to the design, thank you!

Guy Atkins

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Jan 31, 2005, 11:38:57 AM1/31/05
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<leowo...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1107187867....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

OK, here are a few thoughts on features I would like to see on the DE1108
portable:

1. Digital readout to a finer resolution than the Sony 2001D. A readout of
0.01 kHz would be very nice.

2. A passband tuning control (PBT) such as the Eton E1/Grundig Sat900 will
have, useful to at least +/- 2 kHz range. If passband tuning cannot be
included, then the AM synch detector should be a SELECTABLE SIDEBAND type,
as with the Sony's. Ideally, the new Degen would have both of these
features.

3. Sensitivity at least as good as the DE1103, which is a useful portable
here on the West Coast of the USA where signals are weaker.

4. A comfortable, large tuning knob, without audio "chuffing" (muting) when
tuning. The tuning knob on the DE1103 was a step in the right direction,
except it couldn't be very big due to the small size of the radio itself.

Guy Atkins
Puyallup, WA USA


Dan Say

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Jan 31, 2005, 2:03:03 PM1/31/05
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128 x 64 dots? Not large
I'd like a spectrum display, that is too small for effectiveness.

I heard the interview on local radio with the Eton manager and wonder
if it is to be too much for what it is, sw and sat radio, etc. Seems too
much.

Joe Analssandrini

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Jan 31, 2005, 2:22:54 PM1/31/05
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Hello,

The radio should offer:

Dual or triple conversion with no less than excellent front-end
selectivity.

Full coverage from at least 100 kHz to 30000 kHz AM (no gaps), 76-108
MHz FM, and possibly simple air band reception (118-137 Mhz).

4 or 6 rechargeable-NiMH "D"-cell operation with MANUAL switch on back
to choose AC or Battery operation (so that AC Adapter need not be
unplugged when on battery power).

Synchronous-selectable sideband reception is a MUST. Should be designed
at least as well as that on the Grundig Satellit 800. Full passband
tuning would be even better. Lock must be held as well as on AR7030
model and must automatically turn off when tuning and then re-lock when
station is selected.

A good notch filter (with at least 50 dB depth) with range of 0.1 - 5
kHz.

At least 3 IF filters (bandwidths) (preferably 4) of 2.2 kHz, 4 kHz, 6
kHz (and possibly 1 kHz for data/CW); operation of these filters should
be cascaded so that inexpensive ceramic filters will give much better
performance than usual. (6 filter bandwidths would be ideal.) All shape
factors should be less than 1:2.

All parameters should be fully adjustable independently in all modes of
reception (except FM and the digital modes).

At least 200 memories. Tuning via knob (no "chugging" or muting),
"slew" buttons (5 kHz on SW, 9/10 kHz on MW, 9 kHz on LW, and 100 Mhz
on FM). Signal-scan automatic tuning. Memory scanning. Automatic memory
sorting. Automatic station setup (as on Sangean models) for AM and FM
memories.

Remote control operation possible with a CORDED detachable remote
control (at least 6 feet in length or adaptable to an extension cord if
user desires).

Dial illumination via LEDs, perhaps color-switchable (Red, Blue,
Green).

Dial light scheme similar to Grundig Satellit 800. (Always on or always
off with AC power, on for 15 seconds with any button push when using
battery power, or always off with batteries, as desired by user.)

Line outputs for external speaker(s) and stereo system. Excellent sound
quality is a must. Independent tone controls (Treble and Bass) should
be incorporated. Internal mono speaker of high quality is preferable to
mediocre stereo speakers.

At least two external antenna inputs for AM/SW (high and low impedence)
as well as an FM antenna input.

Built-in antennas should be: a LONG (possibly detachable) whip (PLUS a
shorter whip possibly optionally offered for travel); a LONG (at least
130 mm) internal ferrite antenna for MW and LW. External antennas to
override internal ones.

IBOC reception (AM & FM) for the US. Canadian DAB. (Possibly European
DAB.) Self-contained DRM (or a 12 kHz IF output to connect to a
DRM-equipped computer).

Clocks should be RADIO-CONTROLLED (and operated independently from
radio and powered via 2 AA or AAA batteries). Two times zones should be
available, one of which should be UTC. Local time should be adjustable
for daylight-savings time (via radio control) if required; UTC should
NOT be affected by DST change. One of the clocks (including seconds)
should ALWAYS be visible, radio on or off.

No LEDs (except for dial illumination and possibly button
illumination). Properly calibrated digital bar graph S-meter of at
least 12 segments.

A high-quality plastic cabinet or, preferably, a light-weight metal
(aluminum or magnesium) cabinet.

ALL internal components to be of TOP-QUALITY (formerly known as
MIL-spec).

Excellent sensitivity; a 3 or 4 step attenuator (or adjustable RF-gain
control) should be incorporated.

All other specifications to be of Drake R8B/AOR AR7030 caliber,
especially blocking, ultimate rejection, image rejection, and, most
important, dynamic range. Excellent sensitivity (a 3 or 4 step
attenuator would be of help).

A carrying case (nylon or leather) should be optionally offered; this
should be able to carry AC adapter, batteries, and any other options,
as well as fully protecting the radio.

Servicing is important. All service information should be made
available on line.

Guy Atkins has made some important suggestions; his suggestions should
be incorporated also.

A tall order? Yes. A "perfect" radio? Almost. There has never been
anything like it! What should this radio sell for? I would pay $1000 or
more for such a radio; could it be manufactured in China for $700?
Since this is to be your top-of-the-line radio, it should be designed
and made as perfectly as possible.

You make it, I'll buy it!

Joe

homepc

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Jan 31, 2005, 3:41:02 PM1/31/05
to
One thing I have long waited for -- a radio with USB flash drive support.
It would be great to record off the radio with different quality bit rates
(low to high) and transfer the files to my pc for CD archiving or vise versa
for playback on the radio.


<leowo...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1107187867....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Sanjaya

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Jan 31, 2005, 4:30:24 PM1/31/05
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"Joe Analssandrini" <analssa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1107199374....@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
[super radio specs snipped for convenience of replying]

> You make it, I'll buy it!
>
> Joe
>

Shoot, I feel like paying just to read your specs.
I want *that* radio!!!


RHF

unread,
Jan 31, 2005, 5:02:30 PM1/31/05
to
LW2,
.
Using the Sony ICF-2010 as a 'standard and
a Grundig Satellit 800 M as a Reference:
.
* DRM = Digital Radio Mondiale Built-in DRM Signal Processor.
.
* Radio Data System {RDS} Information Display
.
* AM SYNC with Selectable SSB
- Dual Side Band AM-Sync = 6 kHz
- Selected USB/LSB Single Side Band AM-Sync = 3.4 kHz
.
* Four AM Shortwave IF Band Widths
- DRM Extra-Wide 12 kHz
- AM Normal 6 kHz {AM Sync}
- DXing Narrow 3.4 kHz {AM-Sync Selectable SSB}
- SSB 2.4 kHz
.
* Two FM IF Band Widths
- Stereo/Local FM Normal = 210 kHz Wide
- Mono/DX FM Distance = 130 kHz Narrow
.
* RF Signal Input Control Three Position :
- BOOST = Built-in 10 dB Pre-Amplifier
for the Whip and Ferrite Bar Antennas.
- DX = Normal
- LOCAL = Shortwave Only 2-30 MHz
Band Pass Filter with -20dB Attenuation
for both the AM/MW Band and FM Band.
.
* Large Tuning Knob and Up & Down Tuning Buttons
with about 240 to 360 Memories.
.
* Dual Tuning Steps: {Fast and Fine}
- FM = 200 & 20 kHz
- AM = 10 & 1 kHz {AM-BCB = 9/10}
- SSB = 1 kHz & 100 Hz
.
Separate Antenna Inputs :
- FM "F" / PAL Connector
- AM/MW and Shortwave
- - HI-Z Dual Terminals {A&G}
- - LO-Z Jack SO-239
.
* Speakers Three (2:1) for FM Stereo
- One Rear Facing Bass {4.5" Sub-Woofer}
- Two = Left and Right Front {3" Stereo}
- Audio Output Selector Switch:
- - Mono Talk & News {Voice} Front Two
- - Mono Music all three speakers
- - FM Stereo - HiFi (2:1)
NOTE - Sort of like the Grundig Satellit 2400 Dual
Speakers put the Controls in the Center and the
Speakers on the the Left and Right Front Sides.
http://www.dr-boesch.ch/radio/grundig-sat2400.htm
.
* Built-in "D" Size Rechargable Batteries with an
'external' AC>DC Power Adapter / Battery Charger.
Auto/Car DC>DC Power Adapter / Battery Charger.
.
* The Right "Size" - About the Size of a Panasonic
RF-2600 'portable' AM/FM Shortwave Radio :
NOTE - Look at the Lay out of the Controls
and the Big Main Tuning Knob.
http://www.dxing.com/rx/rf799.htm
- 13.5" W
- 9.3" H
- 4.6" D
- Seven Pounds (7 Lbs.)
.
well thats my double-nickels worth ~ RHF
.
.

Stephan Grossklass

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Jan 31, 2005, 6:08:30 PM1/31/05
to
leowo...@msn.com schrieb:

Some points I can think of offhand:
* Use good quality IF filters, i.e. 6-element ceramics or such for AM.
(If these should not be available, get inventive.) I'd combine these
with a wider tail filter. I guess DSP usage is not an option? Some
care when applying the 1st IF crystal filters may not hurt, to ensure
good image rejection (as well as intermodulation characteristics). FM
should use 3 cascaded filters with a medium bandwidth to match the
Satellit 700, with 3 gangs (tuned front-end circuits) recommended.
* With a two way speaker system, make sure sound is as good as possible
with the concept, and that not only to Chinese ears. Audio engineering
has sadly been frequently neglected in the last 10...15 years or so.
If some kind of EQ circuit (for speaker operation only) is needed, so
be it, the radio makers of yore also used such tricks. (There should
be an additional tone control, tastes in sound differ after all.) Some
research in terms of vibration suppression or loudspeaker building in
general and such may be of help. Given the sound is right, a simple
line-level 3.5 mm (stereo) input for amplifying purposes might be a
nice touch.
* Get the internal shielding right, particularly with a non-negligible
digital section.
* Oscillator pulling by lighting LEDs (DE1102 in SSB) and other such
funky stuff better be ironed out, along with operating kinks. Plain
ol' analog volume control and paged decimal presets please.
* Front end selectivity for the AM ranges should be one filter for LW,
one for MW and then several (~ octave) for shortwave, maybe further
varactor-tuned. (The '700 had an electronically tuned preselector,
though it seems alignment of the thing from the factory wasn't always
that great.) Those living near MW transmitters (rather common in the
US) are likely to appreciate a highpass filter for shortwave.
* A big receiver should offer sufficient space for a big ferrite rod
antenna, for good LW/MW (and I'd also suggest low SW up to ~2.5 MHz or
so, where telescopic antennas tend to be inefficient) sensitivity and
directionality. Something rotatable à la RF-2200 might be worth
considering; the bigger a receiver is, the more tiresome rotating the
whole thing becomes.
* I suggest at least two different frequency steps, better 3 - usual
frequency grid for the band, 1 kHz and then something smallish (maybe
100 Hz plus analog fine tuning, or <= 20 Hz without).
* Memory presets: With EEPROMs being rather inexpensive these days, a
few hundreds with at least 8-digit name tags should be possible. But
if MP3 recorder functionality (with commodity flash memory, I guess?)
is already present, one could also use the associated storage. If this
should be removable, a simple file format like CSV could enable easy
presets interchanging and PC based updating. (This might even include
firmware updates, which certainly are not a bad idea.) The MP3
recording probably features adjustable sample rates, (average /
variable, not only constant) bit rates and mono/stereo selection?
(Shortwave recordings would probably require no more than 11025 Hz
mono and thus a relatively low data rate, while FM stereo would best
be recorded with 32000 Hz or 44100 Hz in stereo.)
* In spite of all possible complexity, the essential functions - tuning
and frequency entering, tone control, basic preset saving and
recalling - must remain simple and intuitive to use. If someone can
figure these out without reading the manual, this is good. On a bigger
set, placement of things like a tuning wheel requires some thought in
order to avoid (arm related) fatigue during longer listening sessions.
* Any plans for DRM reception? (Provided some matching and not so power
hungry ICs are already available. If not, a 12 kHz IF output derived
from a suitable spot - maybe behind a 10...12 kHz filter normally
improving ultimate rejection - is better than nothing. Reserving some
space for an add-on DRM board may not hurt then.) What about RDS for
FM?
* Dual balanced 1st mixers have been very similar in portables, and
that for over 20 years now - how boring. Try some other circuit
variants, maybe these give better results.
* For a receiver of this class, availability of servicing instructions
is virtually a must.

I'm pretty sure build quality will not be an issue, given I see little
reason to complain about this even on the little DE105 (I recently
obtained a relabeled one). DEGEN certainly has the potential to become a
major player in the mobile entertainment market.

Stephan
--
Meine Andere Seite: http://stephan.win31.de/
PC#6: i440BX, 2xP3-500E, 704 MiB, 18+80 GB, R9k AGP 64 MiB, 110W
This is a SCSI-inside, Legacy-plus, TCPA-free computer :)

craigm

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Jan 31, 2005, 6:34:50 PM1/31/05
to

In additional to the other features, how about a couple of wide IF
bandwidths?

10 kHz for SW
20 kHz for AM and some digital modes

These bandwidths would allow users to take advantage of the full
bandwidth that may be broadcast (5 kHz on SW and 10 kHz on BCB). It also
facilitates bringing out the IF for DRM or other digital modes.

craigm

mrspock_...@hotmail.com

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Jan 31, 2005, 7:04:37 PM1/31/05
to
the 1103 and 800 are from competing companies are you sure this is on
the level ?

mrspock_...@hotmail.com

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Jan 31, 2005, 7:16:11 PM1/31/05
to
10 and 20 is too wide, a high quality 8KHZ filter is wide enough.

leowo...@msn.com

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Jan 31, 2005, 7:46:45 PM1/31/05
to
sure the chief engineer of SAT800 is from Tecsun ,one of the biggest
radio manufacturer in China, now he has left the job then running a
independent design house, the DE1103 if one of his design out for DEGEN
company.

mrspock_...@hotmail.com

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Jan 31, 2005, 7:52:06 PM1/31/05
to
very interesting.

Rupert Goodwins

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Jan 31, 2005, 9:29:44 PM1/31/05
to
On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:41:02 -0600, "homepc" <wie...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>One thing I have long waited for -- a radio with USB flash drive support.
>It would be great to record off the radio with different quality bit rates
>(low to high) and transfer the files to my pc for CD archiving or vise versa
>for playback on the radio.
>

Or/and a USB interface for computer control and audio to the PC for
recording to hard disk or remote access. If you do this, please
publish the full specifications so that others can write software -
there are already some very good amateur packages that could easily be
adapted. Bluetooth would be good! If a USB interface is included, it
should optionally be able to charge internal batteries, like the iPod.

A noise blanker that is designed to cope with the modern urban
environment of switch mode power supply, broadband and other
interference. A form of diversity reception may help here.

Second IF brought out to a socket, for PC-based DRM reception.

Airband.

An intelligent memory system, that remembers mode, filter and other
settings. It should be possible to easily set up groups of memories -
not just '7 groups of 10' - that can quickly be scanned through from
the main dial, and also have a 'dump this frequency to first free
memory' single button. If at all possible, get a usability expert or
panel of active BCL listeners to provide feedback on the user
interface design.

R

bobme...@yahoo.com

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Jan 31, 2005, 9:37:46 PM1/31/05
to

No one has mentioned an RF gain control. I think that is one of the
biggest shortcomings of the Sat 800. I would like to see that ahead of
notch filters, recording devices and a bazillion memories.
Bob

Conan Ford

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Jan 31, 2005, 10:11:40 PM1/31/05
to
leowo...@msn.com wrote in news:1107187867.764998.76470
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

How about being controllable from a PC, and also flashable memory banks
that could hold program details and schedules for portable operation? The
schedule details could show on the screen when tuned in. Flash memory is
cheap now-a-days.


DRM support should be built-in, or at a 12 khz filter and firmware should
be flashable to enable it (and future digital radio standards perhaps).

Also selectable LSB/USB, none of this forced LSB/USB of the DE-1102 and
1103 portables (below 10 mhz forces LSB, above USB). Fine tuning should be
like the ATS-909, in small steps, at the very least not with a tiny, hard-
to-use thumbwheel.

And finally, provision for an add-on hardware board that perhaps could be
used for XM or Sirius in the future or other Satelite radios.

Conan Ford

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Jan 31, 2005, 10:17:10 PM1/31/05
to
Also, a bright orange or green (or white) backlight is preferable to a DIM
blue one, even if blue LED's are more trendy.

Joe Analssandrini

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Jan 31, 2005, 11:07:16 PM1/31/05
to
Dear Sir,

I should also like to add one more item to my list posted previously:
all memories and the firmware should be non-volatile. Should battery
and AC power be disconnected, all information should be retained
permanently (until changed by the user).
All my best wishes for the success of this forthcoming receiver.

Joe

starman

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Feb 1, 2005, 2:18:22 AM2/1/05
to

How about giving us the long promised Eton-E1 first.

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RHF

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Feb 1, 2005, 2:32:21 AM2/1/05
to
LW2,
.
Some where i thought that I had read that
Tecsun GEM China (PRC) 'owned' or was
a major share holder in Degen.
? Now Is That True ?
.
i want to know ~ RHF
.
.

leowo...@msn.com

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Feb 1, 2005, 7:46:25 AM2/1/05
to

Actually Degen used to be a subsidiary of Tecsun several years ago, the
main business is radio sales, aftermarket service and Electrical
Design, no production line, some Tecsun's radio electrical designing
was come from Degen, but now Degen was completely separated and
independent, Degen has full capacity on receiver designing, mass
production and has own sales channel, Degen become a powerful
competitor of Tesun thus far , sure some Tecsun's shareholder has
shares of Degen, but it absolutely not affect the competitive
situation. once tecsun bring out a new model, then Degen has a similar
one to compete, for example: Tecsun 9700DX~Degen 1107, Tecsun
PL550~Degen 1103, Tecsun PL350~ Degen 1105, Tecsun PL200~ Degen 1102,
now Degen are building the flagship of DE110* series , we would like to
see what does the Tecsun bring to desk

leowo...@msn.com

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Feb 1, 2005, 10:18:14 AM2/1/05
to
All the post is very informative for designer's, I had transfered all
to my forum bbs.leowood.net, sorry it's Chinese version. the designer
is also a community moderator in this Chinese radio fan's forum, he
has reviewed all the thread, I will keep all in the loop

some link here
http://bbs.leowood.net/web/leowood/forum/forum_read.asp?id=706308&page=1&property=0&ClassID=0

Joe Analssandrini

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Feb 1, 2005, 10:37:29 AM2/1/05
to
Dear Sir,

At the risk of posting too much, may I say that I understand that Degen
is one of China's leading radio manufacturers. As such, I hope that the
design of this radio is a "no-holds-barred" short wave receiver of
absolute top quality. Ergonomics especially should be user-friendly.
Menu-driven radios are perfectly acceptable IF the owner's manual is
comprehensive and complete. (I own an AOR AR7030 Plus, the best
performing radio I have ever owned, which I find very easy to use due
in part to its superb owner's manual. Though menu-driven, its
ergonomics are superb.) NO "FRILLS" (such as a "fake" analog dial)
should be on this radio; everything incorporated should be there for a
distinct purpose: the best possible reception of the signals desired.

I sincerely hope you will take into consideration my suggestion to
incorporate the various new terrestrial digital reception modes. It is
not necessary (nor, in my opinion, desirable) to incorporate XM or
Sirius satellite "pay" reception into this forthcoming radio. Satellite
radio can better be served by another separate receiver.

As I stated above, ABSOLUTE TOP QUALITY in DESIGN, COMPONENTS, and
CONSTRUCTION QUALITY are of PARAMOUNT importance.

Degen should market this radio in the USA under its own name. If the
radio is a great one, this will give impetus to awareness of the Degen
name in the United States.

I believe that, if any company can design and market a near-perfect
short wave radio, Degen is that company.

Best,

Joe

Stephen

unread,
Feb 1, 2005, 10:45:33 AM2/1/05
to

Thanks, Joe, for spec'ing out an excellent radio - I'd like one of those!

now for one additional nit...

"Joe Analssandrini" <analssa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1107199374....@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

> Clocks should be RADIO-CONTROLLED (and operated independently from
> radio and powered via 2 AA or AAA batteries). Two times zones should be
> available, one of which should be UTC. Local time should be adjustable
> for daylight-savings time (via radio control) if required; UTC should
> NOT be affected by DST change. One of the clocks (including seconds)
> should ALWAYS be visible, radio on or off.
>

Regarding the clocks, I suggest making it possible for the user to disable
the automatic time-setting based on the radio time signal.

Every once in a long while, radio-controlled clocks can mis-read the signal.
I had a radio-controlled clock radio misread the DST information, and it was
exactly 1 hour off for the next day! If you're relying on the radio to wake
you up in the morning, this could be a problem (not likely, I'll admit, but
I've seen it happen). Alternatively, design the radio controlled clock
logic so that it makes a couple attempts to read the signal, and only update
the clock if the results are consistent.

Stephen


dxAce

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Feb 1, 2005, 10:48:47 AM2/1/05
to

Joe Analssandrini wrote:

My question is: What relationship does DEGEN have to the PLA (People's
Liberation Army)?

dxAce
Michigan
USA


hjs...@cs.com

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Feb 1, 2005, 11:35:26 AM2/1/05
to
More to the point, what does your question have to do with Degen radios
and shortwave listening. I am impressed that the designer of the DE1103
has given us some insight into that radio and more importantly has
asked the SWL community for suggestions on how to design a new radio.
That is a first for me.

I think we should focus this discussion on Degen and their shortwave
radios. And I'm sure you agree.

dxAce

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Feb 1, 2005, 11:43:08 AM2/1/05
to

hjs...@cs.com wrote:

> More to the point, what does your question have to do with Degen radios

> and shortwave listening. [?]

It was a legitimate question regarding DEGEN radios. (And other Chinese sets as
well)

You may not like being reminded that by your purchase you help fund the PLA and
help promote slave labour?

Got a problem with that, 'tard boy?

dxAce
Michigan
USA

dxAce

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Feb 1, 2005, 11:50:37 AM2/1/05
to

hjs...@cs.com wrote:

> More to the point, what does your question have to do with Degen radios
> and shortwave listening.

Go back and read the question I asked again, 'tard.

Read it 3 or 4 times if you have to.

Boggling, just how many damn 'tards there are in this hobby.

Sheesh...

dxAce
Michigan
USA

hjs...@cs.com

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Feb 1, 2005, 12:32:11 PM2/1/05
to
A couple of points. To make such a statement you apparently have
intimate knowlege of their financial condition and ownership. Perhaps
you would care to share it. What are the percentage of ownership of
the major stockholders and are dividends paid to all classes of
shareholder. Please give us details of any cross ownership between
this company and other commercial companies and development banks. What
are the wages at this company. Does the company transfer funds to its
owners by management fees in addition to dividends?

You indicate a concern about buying products from non north american
countries. Have you noticed that most of the clothing, appliances,
cars and indeed almost all consumer goods are not from the U.S. To not
have noticed you must have had your head firmly planted in the sand for
several decades now. To not buy from developing countries would be all
but impossible from an individual standpoint and pretty foolish for the
U.S. as a global economic force.

dxAce

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Feb 1, 2005, 12:37:51 PM2/1/05
to

hjs...@cs.com wrote:

> A couple of points. To make such a statement you apparently have
> intimate knowlege of their financial condition and ownership. Perhaps
> you would care to share it. What are the percentage of ownership of
> the major stockholders and are dividends paid to all classes of
> shareholder. Please give us details of any cross ownership between
> this company and other commercial companies and development banks. What
> are the wages at this company. Does the company transfer funds to its
> owners by management fees in addition to dividends?
>
> You indicate a concern about buying products from non north american
> countries. Have you noticed that most of the clothing, appliances,
> cars and indeed almost all consumer goods are not from the U.S. To not
> have noticed you must have had your head firmly planted in the sand for
> several decades now. To not buy from developing countries would be all
> but impossible from an individual standpoint and pretty foolish for the
> U.S. as a global economic force.

You missed my question and point totally.

I'm not surprised!

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Mark Zenier

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Jan 31, 2005, 2:46:47 PM1/31/05
to
In article <1107187867....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,

<leowo...@msn.com> wrote:
>The designer(also the main engineer of DE1103 & Grundig SAT800) now ask
>advise of the receiver function from BCLer, the DE1108 will be the
>high-end receiver of DE 110X series, it comes with a large dot matrix
>LCD display(128*64) two way speaker system, MP3 recorder, AM sync
>detector, SSB, dual conversion, the reference basis is SAT700, it
>should has better performance than sony 2001D, 7600G, SW77 even SAT700,


>the outline dimensions will be large than SAT700,pls post your thougts
>here, I will take the message to the design, thank you!

One idea would be to make it a "hang on the wall" shortwave. Desk space
is problem for a lot of us, and I think a radio with a form factor like
a flat panel TV would be neat. (My 2 cents worth. $.02 is probably asking
too much).

Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com Washington State resident

Message has been deleted

tianli

unread,
Jan 30, 2005, 8:57:48 PM1/30/05
to
Steve,
He won't or can't answer your question. Every Chinese company has
"connections" with the Communist Party:
In this link are some interesting comments from a corrupt CCP businessman:
http://english.epochtimes.com/news/5-1-28/26080.html

"dxAce" <dx...@eclipsed.com> wrote in message
news:41FFB19C...@eclipsed.com...

Michael

unread,
Feb 1, 2005, 9:39:08 PM2/1/05
to

<leowo...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1107187867....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> The designer(also the main engineer of DE1103 & Grundig SAT800) now ask
> advise of the receiver function from BCLer, the DE1108 will be the
> high-end receiver of DE 110X series, it comes with a large dot matrix
> LCD display(128*64) two way speaker system, MP3 recorder, AM sync
> detector, SSB, dual conversion, the reference basis is SAT700, it
> should has better performance than sony 2001D, 7600G, SW77 even SAT700,
> the outline dimensions will be large than SAT700,pls post your thougts
> here, I will take the message to the design, thank you!


Single side band selectable AM synch. (AN ABSOLUTE MUST IF YOU WANT TO BEAT
THE 7600gr)

Large comfortable to use tuning knob along with push button tuning knob.

Noise Blanker to deal with electronic noise.

Well though out selectable filter settings. Four widths for SW would be
ideal.

Internal battery charger.

Illuminated buttons like on the DE-1102. A great idea that if refined could
be a tremendous feature. If you could see the label or number of each
button light up from inside of the radio so you could use it in the dark, it
would be great. You were on the right track with the DE-1102. Just refine
it.

Two selectable backlight colors. Amber or Blue. Not really needed but it
would be such a neet feature, I'd buy one just for that.

A well designed and functional whip antenna that isn't too loose or too
tight.

A carry case that does not stink like old tires mixed with formaldehyde. I
had to leave the carry case I got with my DE-1101 outside for a week to
fumigate it before I could breath around it without wanting to vomit.

A more elaborate external antenna then the standard wire that comes with the
1101 or 1102. Having it come with a capable external antenna would be a
great selling point. Maybe have a wire with a coil or some kind of a load
in it.

--
Respectfully,

Michael

Location: New Jersey
Primary Receiver: R-75 with full Kiwa mods
Antennas: G5RV, 200ft "Frankenstein" roof wire
Additional Radios: 7600GR,KA-1101,KA-1102
PL-550, KA-989, Info-Mate 837, GE-SR III
Westinghouse H-104 (seven tube)
Web Site: http://md_dxing.tripod.com


LeoBlues

unread,
Feb 3, 2005, 3:44:55 AM2/3/05
to
I'd like (besides the other specifications) some other things (really cool
for european dxers):

FM 64-76 extension (for OIRT dx)
RDS (really nice to have FM listening) with PI CODE reception
3 IF FM filters frontend (like Satellit 500 or 700 ... cool for FM dxers -)
and two kind of FM selectivity (like 280 and 80 khz Murata filters)

it could be really cool mp3 recording and two antenna connector one for FM
Antenna and SW and another one for MW antenna to disable internal ferrite.
internal ferrite could be switch off besides like in Sangean ATS 909 with a
stereo minijack)

other suggestions made from other dxers are cool too.

Leonardo
QTH Matelica (MC) - Italy

Giampiero Bernardini

unread,
Feb 4, 2005, 8:06:55 PM2/4/05
to
HI all,
I have a Degen 1103. It's a good rx. About the 1108 I suggest to care
about FM section. In the world there are a lot of Dxer looking for a
good FM radio since Grundig Satellit 500 and 700 disappeared. Here are
some important features about FM section, with low cost to implement
it:

1) coverage also of East Europe OIRT FM 65.9 - 74 MHz

2) 3 IF filter (bandwidth, with low price Murata ceramic filters):
narrow 53 kHz for hard dx; middle 110 kHz filters for better RDS
decoding also in dx; large 180 kHz filter for music

3) 10 kHz step possible

4) External antenna possible for FM too

5) RDS with also PI code reading as Sat 700

6) Connection with a computer for RDS decoding and analysis, via
serial port (better) or jack

Features 1 - 4 - 5 and also 6 can be obtained without too many
problems also with Sangean 909. The feature #2 is obtained on Sangean
(only one fix bandwith) changing the 10.7 IF filters with a Murata
ceramic one.

73
Giampiero

Zach Liang

unread,
Feb 5, 2005, 7:47:09 AM2/5/05
to
First my idea about the MP3 recorder:
-96-112 kbps for FM Stereo
-max 20 kbps for AM

It can be useful if common flash (removable) memories will be used
What about adding VHFII band? ( 150 -180 MHZ )

Joe Analssandrini

unread,
Feb 5, 2005, 10:28:23 AM2/5/05
to
Re-reading my first post I noticed two silly errors I made: the slew
buttons on FM should offer 100 kHz tuning (not MHz)- and possibly 50
kHz tuning also - and the internal ferrite antenna for MW and LW should
be 260 mm minimum length (not 130). An auxiliary external removeable
MW/LW antenna, which could plug into a receptical on the top of the
radio, and be rotated would be extremely nice; only the antenna would
have to be rotated for best MW/LW reception, not the whole radio.

By the way, really "tight" (multiple) filters for FM reception would be
a plus.

One other suggestion: make the radio BIG - more on the order of the
Grundig Satellit 800. Smaller radios involve too much compromise in my
opinion. There are certainly enough smaller compromised radios on the
market already but very few "great" ones. (The Satellit 800 is close,
but the improvements suggested here on this post would result, I
believe, in one of the all-time great radios.)

Sorry about the errors. Senility ...

Best,

Joe

Stephan Grossklass

unread,
Feb 5, 2005, 4:59:53 PM2/5/05
to
Zach Liang schrieb:

> First my idea about the MP3 recorder:
> -96-112 kbps for FM Stereo

112 max seems a bit tight to me. Even with frequencies up to 15 kHz
only, the maximum should be the equivalent of ~200 kbps ABR/VBR from a
CD (around 160 or so?). Noone has to use that, but the recording from a
high-quality station at maximum quality should be indistiguishable from
the original even using good headphones.

> -max 20 kbps for AM

A selection of 16, 24 and 32 kbps seems reasonable.

> It can be useful if common flash (removable) memories will be used

Yup. Since size is not an issue, I'd look at CF. Stuff in a big
Microdrive or similar and record forever and a day, plus potential
incompatibilities are minimal since CF cards have their own controllers.

> What about adding VHFII band? ( 150 -180 MHZ )

Hmm, what's that used for? It would most likely require a separate
frontend since you can't expand FM band coverage indefinitely.

Stephan
--
Meine Andere Seite: http://stephan.win31.de/
PC#6: i440BX, 2xP3-500E, 704 MiB, 18+80 GB, R9k AGP 64 MiB, 110W
This is a SCSI-inside, Legacy-plus, TCPA-free computer :)

Stephan Grossklass

unread,
Feb 5, 2005, 5:11:40 PM2/5/05
to
Conan Ford schrieb:

> Also, a bright orange or green (or white) backlight is preferable to a DIM
> blue one, even if blue LED's are more trendy.

ACK. Using blue is just inefficient considering us ordinary humans have
the maximum sensitivity in the yellow-green range.

Stephan Grossklass

unread,
Feb 5, 2005, 5:25:13 PM2/5/05
to
Joe Analssandrini schrieb:

> One other suggestion: make the radio BIG - more on the order of the
> Grundig Satellit 800.

Now that would be fairly huge. Sure sound could be very good, but
portability really suffers. I'd even have trouble fitting such a beast
on my desk or nightstand. It would, BTW, be advisable to use the largest
speaker that fits the case (unlike the '800, which only uses a 10 cm
speaker, a joke given the size of the thing).

Stephan Grossklass

unread,
Feb 5, 2005, 7:03:34 PM2/5/05
to
Joe Analssandrini schrieb:

> Synchronous-selectable sideband reception is a MUST.

I forgot this in my original post. Yup, a low-distortion AM detector of
some kind is virtually a must. Notoriously distorted diode detection
just doesn't cut it for serious listening. (Besides, the Sat 700 already
had synch detection.)

> Should be designed
> at least as well as that on the Grundig Satellit 800.

Quite tricky, given the folks at DEGEN have no experience building synch
detectors so far.

> Full passband
> tuning would be even better.

Sure, but I've never seen that in a portable.

> Lock must be held as well as on AR7030
> model

That would be great. It virtually never unlocks (and even if it does,
you don't notice much since the receiver is still using the very
low-distortion product detector). BTW, if synch audio quality were
anything close to that on the AR7030 this would be great. I was amazed
by how good AM can sound that way. (It's just that the AR7030 doesn't
match my usage pattern very well and usually resides in its box. Seems
silly, but maybe I'll be able to put up a decent antenna one day, and
then I'd be sorry to have sold the thing. It's unlikely to lose much in
value anyway.)

> and must automatically turn off when tuning and then re-lock when
> station is selected.

That would be the standard way of implementing it, I think.

> A good notch filter (with at least 50 dB depth) with range of 0.1 - 5
> kHz.

That sure would be nice, but did any other portable ever have one?

> At least 3 IF filters (bandwidths) (preferably 4) of 2.2 kHz, 4 kHz, 6
> kHz (and possibly 1 kHz for data/CW);

I don't know whether that's realistic in a portable. Still, a 2.2/4/6
kHz combo would work well.

> operation of these filters should
> be cascaded so that inexpensive ceramic filters will give much better
> performance than usual.

However, you can't cascade indefinitely. Passband ripple will mess up
things at some point. The AR7030, BTW, uses a 4-element 12 kHz tail
filter along with some 6-element ceramics and a high-quality SSB filter
(Murata CFJ). If a good SSB filter is not within the budget, cascading
the 6 and 4 kHz filters might also work (which would give a caascade of
the 12, 6 and 4 kHz filters overall). The 12 kHz might also be useful
for DRM or really indisturbed AM reception. BTW, with good filtering
present, low oscillator phase noise is of high importance. That's one of
the reasons why the AR7030 achieves such good selectivity.

> All shape factors should be less than 1:2.

Actually that's true even of the 6-element Muratas like the one used in
the 7600GR.

> Dial illumination via LEDs, perhaps color-switchable (Red, Blue,
> Green).

Now that would be nifty.

> Dial light scheme similar to Grundig Satellit 800. (Always on or always
> off with AC power, on for 15 seconds with any button push when using
> battery power, or always off with batteries, as desired by user.)

This concept does not seem so uncommon, our Sony ICF-M60SRDS also uses
it.

> Line outputs for external speaker(s) and stereo system. Excellent sound
> quality is a must.

Shouldn't be that much of a problem, decent-quality opamps like 5532s
aren't expensive these days, and decent-quality electrolytics aren't
that much of a problem either.

> Independent tone controls (Treble and Bass) should
> be incorporated. Internal mono speaker of high quality is preferable to
> mediocre stereo speakers.

ACK.

> At least two external antenna inputs for AM/SW (high and low impedence)
> as well as an FM antenna input.

That seems reasonable. Now the question is, what norm would the FM ant
input conform to?

> IBOC reception (AM & FM) for the US. Canadian DAB. (Possibly European
> DAB.) Self-contained DRM (or a 12 kHz IF output to connect to a
> DRM-equipped computer).

I'd consider DRM as a world-wide standard to be more important than DAB.

> Clocks should be RADIO-CONTROLLED

Good idea, but by which time signal station? Making this variable
requires considerably more efforts. (Typically a narrow-band LC tuned
front-end filter is used, which has to be laid out or at least adjusted
differently for the various frequencies, e.g. MSF 60 kHz for UK folks,
DCF77 77.5 kHz etc.)

> (and operated independently from
> radio and powered via 2 AA or AAA batteries). Two times zones should be
> available, one of which should be UTC. Local time should be adjustable
> for daylight-savings time (via radio control) if required; UTC should
> NOT be affected by DST change. One of the clocks (including seconds)
> should ALWAYS be visible, radio on or off.

Very reasonable suggestions.

> No LEDs (except for dial illumination and possibly button
> illumination). Properly calibrated digital bar graph S-meter of at
> least 12 segments.

I guess most people would already be happy with a *useful* meter that
doesn't read full strength 95% of the time, yet also catches fairly weak
signals and has a pretty wide range.

> A high-quality plastic cabinet or, preferably, a light-weight metal
> (aluminum or magnesium) cabinet.

I don't know whether a metal case would do the sound aspect any good.
Plastic is more realistic anyway.

> ALL internal components to be of TOP-QUALITY (formerly known as
> MIL-spec).

Isn't that asking a bit too much?

> Excellent sensitivity; a 3 or 4 step attenuator (or adjustable RF-gain
> control) should be incorporated.

A 2-step attenuator would most likely also do. RF gain was more
necessary in the old days to get SSB demodulation with fairly lousy
detectors right. A switchable AGP time constant/behavior, however, would
be a nice touch.

> All other specifications to be of Drake R8B/AOR AR7030 caliber,
> especially blocking, ultimate rejection, image rejection, and, most
> important, dynamic range.

I guess the receiver will be priced at around ~500USD/EUR, so not all of
this will be possible.

> Excellent sensitivity (a 3 or 4 step
> attenuator would be of help).

Depending on how sensitive the thing becomes, either a pre-amp for the
whip (as done in the Sat 700) or a pre-attenuated ext ant input (we
don't want anything to blow on large antennas) seems like the more
likely solution.

> A carrying case (nylon or leather) should be optionally offered; this
> should be able to carry AC adapter, batteries, and any other options,
> as well as fully protecting the radio.

Seems like a good idea, though this kind of rig will never be as
portable as a DE105. (BTW, I sure would like to get my hands on a
DE1105. The '105 isn't bad for what it is, but doesn't perform as well
as I'd like. And since the '1105 isn't a lot bigger, this seems like the
perfect model to upgrade to.)

> Servicing is important. All service information should be made
> available on line.

That would be great indeed. At the very least there should be some way
of obtaining service docs at all.

tianli

unread,
Feb 3, 2005, 7:00:52 PM2/3/05
to
Any Degen product priced under 100 Yuan would be just perfect.


<leowo...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1107187867....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

starman

unread,
Feb 6, 2005, 1:51:24 AM2/6/05
to
Stephan Grossklass wrote:>

>
> Quite tricky, given the folks at DEGEN have no experience building synch
> detectors so far.

I think we've reached the point where a good sync' detector is not
exactly rocket science anymore. However the problem is designing one
that doesn't infringe on someone elses design. That could be a big
problem.

dev

unread,
Feb 6, 2005, 11:38:15 PM2/6/05
to

Joe Analssandrini

unread,
Feb 9, 2005, 9:46:49 PM2/9/05
to
Dear Sir,

It appears that the suggestions have all been posted. I hope you and
your associates will consider them all carefully.

Let me just sum up what I personally would like (and what the radio
would have to be like in order to persuade me to buy one):

It has to have the performance of the AOR AR7030 Plus receiver on the
LW/MW/SW bands AND it must have IBOC, the various DAB protocols, and
possibly DRM. NO SATELLITE ("Pay Radio") reception. Its FM performance
must be first-class and its sound must be no less than excellent. All
this should be in a package which can operate from rechargeable NiMH
batteries - 4.8 V, 7.2 V, or 9.6 V. The batteries should preferably be
"D" size. This would, of course, require some "breakthroughs" as no
portable radio in history has ever featured that which I ask. Can you
accomplish it?

If you make such a radio, I will buy one.

Best,

Joe

hkradioer

unread,
Mar 4, 2005, 1:08:02 PM3/4/05
to
Hi All,

What are your requirements of a good radio?
What features that you would like to be included in a future radio?
Should this radio be a table-top or a portable?

Degen radio is going to design a good radio, the DE1108 is hoped to
be the best radio ever, second to none that would meet your
requirements!!!

You are welcome to join the Degen DE1108:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/de1108/

All the latest news about the DE1108 will be posted on this group, also
all your comments and suggestions will be reflected to the enginners
of the Degen radio company.

Cheers,
Paul - HongKongRadioer

Jim Hackett

unread,
Mar 4, 2005, 1:36:48 PM3/4/05
to
...and I'll bet that in spite of the fact that they haven't started it yet,
it will still come out BEFORE the E1-XM
"hkradioer" <hkcr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109959682.8...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Sanjaya

unread,
Mar 4, 2005, 5:25:36 PM3/4/05
to

"hkradioer" <hkcr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109959682.8...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Thanks Paul


Buzzygirl

unread,
Mar 4, 2005, 6:49:10 PM3/4/05
to
"hkradioer" <hkcr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109959682.8...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

> Degen radio is going to design a good radio, the DE1108 is hoped to


> be the best radio ever, second to none that would meet your
> requirements!!!

Great, *just* what I need... ANOTHER radio!! :-D

Seriously though, thanks!

Jackie


running dogg

unread,
Mar 4, 2005, 6:53:53 PM3/4/05
to
hkradioer wrote:

I think they should design a REAL portatop, something along the lines of
the Sony 2010, about the 2010's size but packed with tabletop features.
Considering what they've done with the 1102, and how far technology has
advanced since the heyday of the 2010, they could make a 2010 size
portatop but with the features of the best tabletops, including making
it DRM ready, AND putting in FM stereo that covers ALL world FM bands,
including Eastern Europe, Japan, and US-that would be about 66-108 Mhz.
Hell, they could put in TV sound covering all TV channels in the world.
Throw in world weather bands too. Make it able to receive ELF radio
signals, down to 10 khz or so. Why not dream big?

running dogg

unread,
Mar 4, 2005, 6:54:35 PM3/4/05
to
Jim Hackett wrote:

> ....and I'll bet that in spite of the fact that they haven't started it yet,


> it will still come out BEFORE the E1-XM

You mean the Grundig Satellit 900? :)

> "hkradioer" <hkcr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1109959682.8...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > Hi All,
> >
> > What are your requirements of a good radio?
> > What features that you would like to be included in a future radio?
> > Should this radio be a table-top or a portable?
> >
> > Degen radio is going to design a good radio, the DE1108 is hoped to
> > be the best radio ever, second to none that would meet your
> > requirements!!!
> >
> > You are welcome to join the Degen DE1108:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/de1108/
> >
> > All the latest news about the DE1108 will be posted on this group, also
> > all your comments and suggestions will be reflected to the enginners
> > of the Degen radio company.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Paul - HongKongRadioer
> >
>
>

cuh...@webtv.net

unread,
Mar 4, 2005, 7:08:20 PM3/4/05
to
One that will pick up Monticello,Mississippi real good from
Jackson,Mississippi (I live in Jackson) with no fading in and out.Y'all
build such a radio as that at a resonable price and I will buy it.And
don't stick a Tiny-Tenna on there either,Tiny-Tennas do NOT work!
cuhulin

cuh...@webtv.net

unread,
Mar 4, 2005, 7:11:39 PM3/4/05
to
Hey,I did my five days R&R in Hong Kong in 1964.Chinese Pussy good! :{)
I think it was the Park (Park something or the other) Hotel I stayed
at.Is that hotel still there in Hong Kong?
cuhulin

chevy...@gmail.com

unread,
Mar 6, 2005, 7:44:08 PM3/6/05
to
While any open sourced digital recording ability would be GREAT, I'd
prefer mpeg4 or AAC format for its better quality in a smaller file.
However, as a beggar, I won't be a chooser!

I'm already putting a few bucks away a week for this radio when it is
rolled out. I love my Degen 1102 and would have no qualms about buying
another product of theirs.

Al Patrick

unread,
Mar 7, 2005, 10:20:06 AM3/7/05
to
chevy...@gmail.com wrote:
I love my Degen 1102 and would have no qualms about buying
> another product of theirs.

I'll second that!

hjs...@cs.com

unread,
Mar 7, 2005, 11:15:17 AM3/7/05
to
Yes, and I'll jump in with a third. The DE1103 is also proof that
Kaito can design good performing inexpensive radios. If they go
up-market they will have to consider receiver performance as well as
the numerous features we all want. Dynamic range, selectivity and
image control become a whole lot more important in the over $500.00
price range that the DE1108 will probably price out at.

cuh...@webtv.net

unread,
Mar 7, 2005, 12:06:06 PM3/7/05
to
Nawwww,I am saving up for a Sony 7600GR Radio.
cuhulin

voas...@gmail.com

unread,
Jun 29, 2016, 2:06:36 AM6/29/16
to
I like the timer function of DE1103 so very much, so I would like the DE1108 to keep the same function. The volume can be set in the timer, this is what I like the most. As what I knew, there is no other radios on earth that have the same perfect timer function as DE1103 does.
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