SPECIAL: Constitution intentionally vague
dave
time.
arthr...@webtv.net
> We're supposed to interpret it the way we see fit. Meanings change over
> time.
...and how is this related to SWL?
John Smith
> We're supposed to interpret it the way we see fit. Meanings change over
> time.
Oh no, is it already that time? Your gay marriage is tomorrow? And,
still you can't get the Constitution to respect your guy and you?
Bummer dude!
Regards,
JS
John Smith
> time.
Yeah, and what does your gay marriage have to do with SWL anyway?
dave
In a special way. I was listening to shortwave when I typed it.
arthr...@webtv.net
...now that is one hell of an excuse !!!
dave
I stickin' with it.
Kevin Alfred Strom
> We're supposed to interpret it the way we see fit. Meanings change over
> time.
Preposterous. Read the words of the men who wrote it.
Kevin Alfred Strom.
--
http://kevinalfredstrom.com/
dave
> dave wrote:
>> We're supposed to interpret it the way we see fit. Meanings change
>> over time.
>
>
> Preposterous. Read the words of the men who wrote it.
>
>
> Kevin Alfred Strom.
"unreasonable" searches and seizures?
the "common defense"?
"general welfare"
The whole 10th Amendment?
Give me a break, these guys were rebels, not saints. One of the most
common threads in their writing is their skepticism that any of their
work would long endure.
I'd love to bring back The Enlightenment too, but it ain't gonna happen.
Dark Ages 2.0
DEFCON 88
-------------------------------------------
>
>We're supposed to interpret it the way we see fit.
>
OK, fine. Then we can interpret your illogical spew the way we see
fit. We therefore interpret your comments to actually mean "I, Dave,
am a demented microcephalic clown".
John Smith
> time.
Yes, you are. But the rest of us with sane mind, and not residing in
mental institutions, will handle it for you and make sure the true
intent of the forefathers, and the will of the majority of the people,
are carried out.
The Constitution says what it means and means what is says ...
Regards,
JS
bpnjensen
> On 9/3/2010 8:34 PM, dave wrote:
>
> > We're supposed to interpret it the way we see fit. Meanings change over
> > time.
>
> Yes, you are. But the rest of us with sane mind, and not residing in
> mental institutions, will handle it for you and make sure the true
> intent of the forefathers, and the will of the majority of the people,
> are carried out.
But this is not what the Constitution says.
RHF
> On Sep 3, 11:34 pm, dave <d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
>
>
- OK, fine. Then we can interpret your illogical spew the way we see
- fit. We therefore interpret your comments to actually mean "I, Dave,
- am a demented microcephalic clown".
Nah - 'Dave' Be "Dave" as in [DaviD] with two yes
that's two Capital "D"s for Dumb and Dumber. ;;-}}
hey dave - pal ~ RHF
.
RHF
OK - What Does The US Constitution Say :
We the People of the United States, {Power To The People}
in Order to form a more perfect Union, {National Unity}
Establish Justice, {Not Preference for the Few }
Insure Domestic Tranquility, {Not Class Warfare}
Provide for the Common Defence, {Not a Police State}
Promote the General Welfare, {Freedom To Be Free}
and Secure the Blessings of Liberty {From God For The People}
to Ourselves and our Posterity, {Today and into the Future}
do Ordain and Establish this Constitution {Created By The People}
for the United States of America.
{A Republic : Government Accountable To The People}
say what you will : it says what it says ~ RHF
.
.
dave
"a well regulated Militia"
"a speedy...trial"
And y'all never talk about the Ninth Amendment which says the People
have more rights than those written down in this here Constitution.
That's tractor-trailer wide vague.
And where does it say POTUS can unilaterally declare war?
dave
You make it sound like some kind of religious proclamation.
dave
What was an "unreasonable" search in 1787? If a police officer hears
you do a drug deal on a scanner is that admissible in court?
dave
> OK - What Does The US Constitution Say :
> We the People of the United States, {Power To The People}
> in Order to form a more perfect Union, {National Unity}
> Establish Justice, {Not Preference for the Few }
> Insure Domestic Tranquility, {Not Class Warfare}
> Provide for the Common Defence, {Not a Police State}
> Promote the General Welfare, {Freedom To Be Free}
> and Secure the Blessings of Liberty {From God For The People}
> to Ourselves and our Posterity, {Today and into the Future}
> do Ordain and Establish this Constitution {Created By The People}
> for the United States of America.
> {A Republic : Government Accountable To The People}
>
> say what you will : it says what it says ~ RHF
> .
> .
You are an idiot.
The Preamble carries no force of law.
(Does "defence" against disease count?)
(Can there be "domestic tranquility" without a middle class?)
Kevin Alfred Strom
[...]
> What was an "unreasonable" search in 1787? If a police officer hears
> you do a drug deal on a scanner is that admissible in court?
Since the Constitution gives no power whatever to the central
government to legislate on or control drugs, no federal drug "laws"
can possibly be constitutional, and every DEA arrest and conviction
is itself illegal. (Actually, I see no warrant in the Constitution
for the federal government even _knowing_ what you possess, much
less making it a crime.)
As for state and local governments, they naturally have a wider
scope -- but at least one can choose to live in a locality where the
prevailing standards are congenial to you.
With every good wish,
dave
The point sailed right past you. The point being the Founders were
neither clairvoyant nor divinely inspired. They were major hypocrites
and therefore mere imperfect slobs like the rest of us.
Kevin Alfred Strom
[...]
>
> The point sailed right past you. The point being the Founders were
> neither clairvoyant nor divinely inspired. They were major hypocrites
> and therefore mere imperfect slobs like the rest of us.
Even if that were true, it wouldn't matter. They created a truly
_limited_ government, a unique and highly beneficial accomplishment.
It is a tragedy beyond words that their system has been overthrown.
With every good wish,
Kevin Alfred Strom.
--
http://kevinalfredstrom.com/
dave
>
> Even if that were true, it wouldn't matter. They created a truly
> _limited_ government, a unique and highly beneficial accomplishment. It
> is a tragedy beyond words that their system has been overthrown.
>
When Reagan deregulated the media and defunded education he sealed our
fate. There's nothing left to save.
bpnjensen
First of all, you wrote in lots of words that are not there. That's
your interpretation, and has little to do with my point.
The Constitution does not guarantee that the majority's will rules.
If it did, it would not have set up a Republic with the two houses of
Congress structured differently, a single person with power of
approval and veto, and a judiciary system that could override
everything. That was my point. The founders recognized that "shoot-
from-the-hip" rule by majority would and could be unjust and dangerous
to minorities.
Bruce
RHF
- - RHF wrote:
- - OK - What Does The US Constitution Say :
- - We the People of the United States, {Power To The People}
- - in Order to form a more perfect Union, {National Unity}
- - Establish Justice, {Not Preference for the Few }
- - Insure Domestic Tranquility, {Not Class Warfare}
- - Provide for the Common Defence, {Not a Police State}
- - Promote the General Welfare, {Freedom To Be Free}
- - and Secure the Blessings of Liberty {From God For The People}
- - to Ourselves and our Posterity, {Today and into the Future}
- - do Ordain and Establish this Constitution {Created By The People}
- - for the United States of America.
- - {A Republic : Government Accountable To The People}
- -
- - say what you will : it says what it says ~ RHF
- - .
- - .
Dave -wrote- {proclaimed}
- You are an idiot.
{Dave proclaim it loud : YOU ARE AN IDIOT ! :-}
OK so in Dave's Bizzaro World Reciting the
"We the People" part of the US Constitution
makes someone an "Idiot"
But-Dave ! - Which Part of the US Constitution
Makes Anyone an Idiot !
Hey Dave then Yes I Am an Idiot for Loving My Country.
But-Dave ! - Are All Patriot Americans Idiots ?
- The Preamble carries no force of law.
But-Dave ! - It Has The Force of "We the People"
- (Does "defence" against disease count?)
But-Dave ! - Are You Talking About Biological Warfare ?
-or- The Disease of Obama-Care© ?
- (Can there be "domestic tranquility" without a middle class?)
But-Dave ! - Was there a Middle Class in 1776 ?
and -obtw- But-Dave ! - In The Obama-Nation©
"We the People" would be one big government
Classless Socialist Society.
this has been a 'but-dave' reply by rhf ~ RHF
.
-ps- i am being nice by using 'but-dave'
instead of BUTT-Dave
-cause- dave you are such a 'bun' at times . . .
.
.
bpnjensen
Only if he can prove that a material exchange occurred. Otherwise, it
is pure hearsay and rumor.
RHF
wrote:
> dave wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > What was an "unreasonable" search in 1787? If a police officer hears
> > you do a drug deal on a scanner is that admissible in court?
- Since the Constitution gives no power
- whatever to the central government to
- legislate on or control drugs, no federal
- drug "laws" can possibly be constitutional,
The US Constitution gives the US Congress
the Power To Legislate and Make "Laws"
-and- Everything else follows from that . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_One_of_the_United_States_Constitution
The US Constitution Is NOT Intentionally Vague :
The US Constitution "IS" A Broad Brush Frame-Work
the us constitution just read it ~ RHF
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_us_constitution
RHF
- They were major hypocrites and therefore
- mere imperfect slobs like the rest of us.
Speak for Yourself Dave
I say : SPEAK FOR YOURSELF DAVE !
dave - you are so 'special' - pal ~ RHF
.
.
RHF
> On Sep 5, 6:34 am, dave <d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>
>
>
> > bpnjensen wrote:
> > > On Sep 4, 7:12 pm, John Smith<assemblywiz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> On 9/3/2010 8:34 PM, dave wrote:
>
> > >>> We're supposed to interpret it the way we see fit. Meanings change over
> > >>> time.
>
> > >> Yes, you are. But the rest of us with sane mind, and not residing in
> > >> mental institutions, will handle it for you and make sure the true
> > >> intent of the forefathers, and the will of the majority of the people,
> > >> are carried out.
>
> > > But this is not what the Constitution says.
>
> > What was an "unreasonable" search in 1787? If a police officer hears
> > you do a drug deal on a scanner is that admissible in court?
- Only if he can prove that a material exchange occurred.
- Otherwise, it is pure hearsay and rumor.
There are more Laws than that . . .
-and- the Material Facts are what they are
This Drug Deal 'On-the-Radio' would have to
have at least two parties to the conversation.
-if- the Second Party Admits to the Drug Deal
at least you have One-Witness to the Elements
of a Criminal Enterprise and a Criminal Conspiracy
[RICO Act] to Plan and Commit a Crime.
http://www.ricoact.com/ricoact/nutshell.asp
sound like 'book-em dan-o' ~ RHF
.
.
RHF
> John Smith wrote:
> > On 9/3/2010 8:34 PM, dave wrote:
> >> We're supposed to interpret it the way we see fit. Meanings change over
> >> time.
>
> > Yes, you are. But the rest of us with sane mind, and not residing in
> > mental institutions, will handle it for you and make sure the true
> > intent of the forefathers, and the will of the majority of the people,
> > are carried out.
>
- -
- - Regards,
- - JS
- You make it sound like some kind of religious proclamation.
I say : Praise Be The US Constitution
and the Founding Fathers - Amen ~ RHF
Plus the US Declaration of Independence Proclaims
Our All American 'Unalienable Rights'*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence
* 'Unalienable Rights' = In-Alienable Rights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inalienable_rights
Including Out 100% America US 'Bill of Rights'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights
God {Allah} Bless All These Founding Documents
and we all say : amen, Amen. and AMEN ! ~ RHF
.
?Q? Are the US Declaration of Independence;
the US Constitution; and the US Bill of Rights
Worthy of Our Praise ? --- YES I SAY ~ RHF
.
.
DEFCON 88
wrote:
-------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
I agree that the federal government has waaay too much power and
authority over our lives; power and authority that is NOT in the
Constitution - not even close; power and authority it just
miraculously pulled out of it's ass. We've lost the idea of individual
states bound together under a very limited central government who's
main purpose is to provide a common military defense against foreign
invaders (such as Mexico who is currently invading the Southwest while
"our" government sits paralyzed for fear of appearing "racist") and to
provide common foreign diplomacy and trade laws. Individual states and
cities should have most of the regulatory and legislative power, and
said laws should reflect the will and needs of the MAJORITY racial/
religious group in each state and city. That would provide the maximum
freedom for local populations and would be MUCH preferable to the
thuggish "tyranny of the minority" we suffer under today, where the
majority White population are 2nd class citizens who are forced, even
sometimes at gunpoint, to assist in the destruction of their own
civilization and culture.
bpnjensen
>
> sound like 'book-em dan-o' ~ RHF
> .
> .
Pretty hard to make a case without material evidence, though.
bpnjensen
> On Sep 5, 6:32 am, dave <d...@dave.dave> wrote:> John Smith wrote:
> > > On 9/3/2010 8:34 PM, dave wrote:
> > >> We're supposed to interpret it the way we see fit. Meanings change over
> > >> time.
>
> > > Yes, you are. But the rest of us with sane mind, and not residing in
> > > mental institutions, will handle it for you and make sure the true
> > > intent of the forefathers, and the will of the majority of the people,
> > > are carried out.
>
> - - The Constitution says what it means and means what is says ...
> - -
> - - Regards,
> - - JS
>
> - You make it sound like some kind of religious proclamation.
>
> I say : Praise Be The US Constitution
> and the Founding Fathers - Amen ~ RHF
>
> Plus the US Declaration of Independence Proclaims
>
> * 'Unalienable Rights' = In-Alienable Rightshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inalienable_rights
>
> Including Out 100% America US 'Bill of Rights'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights
>
> God {Allah} Bless All These Founding Documents
> and we all say : amen, Amen. and AMEN ! ~ RHF
> .
> ?Q? Are the US Declaration of Independence;
> the US Constitution; and the US Bill of Rights
> Worthy of Our Praise ? --- YES I SAY ~ RHF
> .
> .
From me, resounding YES.
cuh...@webtv.net
http://www.rense.com
http://www.devilfinder.com
Has Judicial-Inc.Biz website been shut down?
cuhulin
dave
>
> Hey Dave then Yes I Am an Idiot for Loving My Country.
>
Yes you are.
RHF
- - RHF wrote:
- Yes you are.
OK in Dave's Bizzaro World this passes
as a meaningful answer ~ RHF
The Thread Began Here :
SPECIAL: Constitution Intentionally Vague
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/5f0e7cc2fc6bc361
* We're supposed to interpret it the way we see fit.
* Meanings change over time.
-by- Dave
.
OK - What Does The US Constitution Say
-wrt- US Constitution Intentionally Vague . . .
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/4114a0499559c6e2
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/975d1e1924dc6fce
.
DAVE Speaks Out on Major Hypocrites
and Imperfect Slobs
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/84ab0ab6d681f091
.
The Powers Within the US Constitution
-wrt- Constitution Intentionally Vague
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/9ba54f25139307b8
.
?Q? Are the US Declaration of Independence;
the US Constitution; and the US Bill of Rights
Worthy of Our Praise ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/53bbaa4d8989f0ca
.
Once Again - 'Dave' Be "Dave" as in [DaviD]
with two yes that's two Capital "D"s for Dumb
and Dumber. ;;-}}
-cause- That's What Makes Dave 'SPECIAL'.
hey dave - pal ~ RHF
.
.
cuh...@webtv.net
Axel the Sot.The ''Original'' Drunken Sailor.Songs to sing when you are
drunk.
http://www.chivalry.com/axel
I quit drinking over a year and a half ago, no wonder I lost so much
weight and my boobs shrunk to an A Cup size.I used to sing when I was
drinking.Mostly Cowboy songs.
cuhulin, the Singing Cowboy
m II
> - - The Constitution says what it means and means what is says ...
> - - - - Regards, - - JS
>
> - You make it sound like some kind of religious proclamation.
>
> I say : Praise Be The US Constitution and the Founding Fathers -
> Amen ~ RHF
>
> Plus the US Declaration of Independence Proclaims Our All American
> 'Unalienable Rights'*
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence
>
> * 'Unalienable Rights' = In-Alienable Rights
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inalienable_rights
>
> Including Out 100% America US 'Bill of Rights'
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights
>
> God {Allah} Bless All These Founding Documents and we all say :
> amen, Amen. and AMEN ! ~ RHF . ?Q? Are the US Declaration of
> Independence; the US Constitution; and the US Bill of Rights Worthy
> of Our Praise ? --- YES I SAY ~ RHF . .
=====================================
During a meeting with Republican Congressional leaders last month, in
which they expressed concerns about renewing the Patriot Act,
President George W. Bush reportedly espoused a very low opinion of the
Constitution, calling it “just a goddamned piece of paper.”
http://tinyurl.com/oy5v8
=====================================
John Smith
Man Boobs? EEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!
Regards,
JS
dave
You are correct. YOU have nothing in common with our brave ancestors.
dave
>
> I say : Praise Be The US Constitution
> and the Founding Fathers - Amen ~ RHF
>
> Plus the US Declaration of Independence Proclaims
> Our All American 'Unalienable Rights'*
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence
>
>
Natural rights are inherent. That's what makes them unalienable. No one
can take them away because no one granted them.
"Nature" and "Nature's God" are just more fluff the great unwashed. The
founders were very skeptical about the idea of living gods.
dave
>
> -------------------------------------
>
>
> Individual states and
> cities should have most of the regulatory and legislative power, and
> said laws should reflect the will and needs of the MAJORITY racial/
> religious group in each state and city.
You are free to find such a place. They exist.
> civilization and culture.
Haah!
cuh...@webtv.net
why?
I know why.Do you know why?
cuhulin, the BOOBs
m II
So that guy in Holland Michigan can send you bras during the Tulip
season?
mike
DEFCON 88
------------------------------------
> RHF wrote:
>
> > I say : Praise Be The US Constitution
> > and the Founding Fathers - Amen ~ RHF
>
> > Plus the US Declaration of Independence Proclaims
> > Our All American 'Unalienable Rights'*
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence
>
> Natural rights are inherent. That's what makes them unalienable. No one
> can take them away because no one granted them.
>
------------------------------------
But regardless, most governments, including ours, TRY to take them
away.
DEFCON 88
------------------------------------
> Us dudes have boobs, because/Ergo perhaps you know why, or do you know
> why?
> I know why.Do you know why?
------------------------------------
To give men something to stare at when there's no women around?
RHF
> On Sep 6, 12:23 pm, cuhu...@webtv.net wrote:
>
> ------------------------------------
>
- - because/Ergo perhaps you know why,
- - or do you know why?
- - I know why.
- - Do you know why?
- To give men something to stare at
- when there's no women around?
Nah - To Prove God Is : a 'practical joker' ;;-}}
yes - even a few men . . .
get breast cancer pal ~ RHF
.
RHF
- - RHF wrote:
- -
- - and the Founding Fathers - Amen ~ RHF
- -
- - Plus the US Declaration of Independence Proclaims
- - Our All American 'Unalienable Rights'*
- - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence
- Natural rights are inherent.
- That's what makes them unalienable.
- No one can take them away
- because no one granted them.
Dave you would be 'naturally' right ;;-}}
- "Nature" and "Nature's God" are
- just more fluff the great unwashed.
- The founders were very skeptical
- about the idea of living gods.
Dave of 'you' - i myself am very "skeptical" ~ RHF
and Dave . . .
How Do You Separate 'Natural-&-Nature' ?
and what is "Nature's God" ?
Dave - 'the idea of living gods'
is man's {humanity's} idea.
Would a God Live {Have Life} As Man Does ?
Can Man's Living Define God's "BE-ing"
Dave - "BE-Ing" -that's- Existing
and Existing may and may not involve
Living and Life as we Humans Define It.
The Universe {Earth, Moon, Sun, Stars} Exists :
Do You Deny It ! -but- Is It Alive ?
The Air, a Rock, Dirt, Water All Exist :
Do You Deny Them ! -but- Are They Alive ?
The Plant, Animal, Insect, Amoeba All Exist :
Do You Deny Them ! -how- Do We Define Alive ?
Humans Exist : Do You Deny This !
Have We Humans Existence ?
Are We Not Living ?
Do We Have Life ?
Are We "BE-ing" Alive ?
God's Existence -or- Not : Does Not Depend on
Humanity and Mankind's Definition of 'Living' [.] ©
Dave - may your 'existence' BE
your "existence" - pal ~ RHF
.
.
?Q? Are the US Declaration of Independence;
the US Constitution; and the US Bill of Rights
Worthy of Our Praise ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/53bbaa4d8989f0ca
.
I say : Praise Be The US Constitution
and the Founding Fathers - Amen ~ RHF
.
Plus the US Declaration of Independence Proclaims
Our All American 'Unalienable Rights'*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence
.
* 'Unalienable Rights' = In-Alienable Rights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inalienable_rights
.
Including Out 100% America US 'Bill of Rights'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights
.
dave
We know this already, but suppress the truth. This makes us neurotic.
Any flaw you see in the "government" reflects a flaw in the collective
"we".
"We" need to embrace what we have in common, and use that as a basis for
carefully studying what WE THINK separates us.
If we do not hang together than we shall certainly hang separately.
arthr...@webtv.net
> On Sep 6, 10:38 am, dave <d...@dave.dave> wrote:- - RHF wrote:
>
> - -
> - - I say : Praise Be The US Constitution
> - - and the Founding Fathers - Amen ~ RHF
> - -
> - - Plus the US Declaration of Independence Proclaims
> - - Our All American 'Unalienable Rights'*
> .
> I say : Praise Be The US Constitution
> and the Founding Fathers - Amen ~ RHF
> .
> Plus the US Declaration of Independence Proclaims
> .
> * 'Unalienable Rights' = In-Alienable Rightshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inalienable_rights
> .
> Including Out 100% America US 'Bill of Rights'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights
> .
> God {Allah} Bless All These Founding Documents
> and we all say : amen, Amen. and AMEN ! ~ RHF
> .
> ?Q? Are the US Declaration of Independence;
> the US Constitution; and the US Bill of Rights
> Worthy of Our Praise ? --- YES I SAY ~ RHF
> .
> .
For a historical document,written in the 18th century, I always
wonder: why is it that laws of an utmost importance way back must be
followed to the letter ? Considering all the incredible advances in
science and lifestyle ( how many small independent farmers do we have
left in this country?), instant communication,planes,trains,space
stations and satellites, the list is much longer than it seems at
first, how can we claim what was a matter of literally life and death
230 years ago must be invariably applied to in modern life ! I just
hope that the Supreme Court justices are mostly normal and decent
human beings and don't interpret the Law in a perverted and demented
fashion... like it happens, quite often.
RHF
- For a historical document,written in the 18th century, I always
- wonder: why is it that laws of an utmost importance way back must
be
- followed to the letter ? Considering all the incredible advances in
- science and lifestyle ( how many small independent farmers do we
have
- left in this country?), instant communication,planes,trains,space
- stations and satellites, the list is much longer than it seems at
- first, how can we claim what was a matter of literally life and
death
- 230 years ago must be invariably applied to in modern life ! I
just
- hope that the Supreme Court justices are mostly normal and decent
- human beings and don't interpret the Law in a perverted and demented
- fashion... like it happens, quite often.
Arthrny,
So Freedom of Speech is only good -if- it is
done with the natural un-aided human voice;
and hear in-person . . .
Us a Microphone and a PA -no-freedom-of-speech-
Talk on the Radio -no-freedom-of-speech-
Talk on the Telephone -no-freedom-of-speech-
Talk on the TV -no-freedom-of-speech-
Talk on the Internet -no-freedom-of-speech-
Much of the same can be said of all are other and
equal great American Freedoms {Unalienable Rights} .
Technology and Time Do Not Abrogate Unalienable Rights.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unalienable Rights Then [.] ~ American Freedoms Then...
Unalienable Rights Now [.] ~ American Freedoms Now...
Unalienable Rights Forever [.] ~ American Freedoms Forever...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The US Declaration of Independence; the US Constitution;
and the US Bill of Rights : They What They Are :
Then & Now & Forever -and- Mean What They Mean
Don't Interpret Them : JUST READ THEM ! - eafpal ~ RHF
.
.
arthr...@webtv.net
> Unalienable Rights Then [.] ~ American Freedoms Then...
> Unalienable Rights Now [.] ~ American Freedoms Now...
> Unalienable Rights Forever [.] ~ American Freedoms Forever...
>
> The US Declaration of Independence; the US Constitution;
> and the US Bill of Rights : They What They Are :
> Then & Now & Forever -and- Mean What They Mean
> Don't Interpret Them : JUST READ THEM ! - eafpal ~ RHF
> .
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'm pretty sure Ben Franklin used electricity to communicate with his
peers (lots of sparks). He also turned down the offer to become the
first President. And he just might have been one of the main
contributors in writing the Constitution. And if some people see the
articles in different colors /shades, well ...that is by definition
"freedom of speech" .Everyone is entitled to his /her own opinion.
And that is Democracy at the most basic level.
RHF
- peers (lots of sparks). He also turned down the offer to become the
- first President. And he just might have been one of the main
- contributors in writing the Constitution.
Yes one of the 'contributors' in formulation of
the Ideas and Ideals in what evolved into the
Nexus-Document know as the US Constitution.
The US Constitution Convention the Nexus-Group :
Producing the 'Gestalt' of American and Americanism.
- And if some people see the articles in
- different colors /shades, well ...that is
- by definition "freedom of speech" .
No that is Freedom of Thought {Thinking}
-cause- It Ain't "Speech" Until You 'Say' It !
- Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion.
Yes that is again Freedom of Thought {Thinking}
-and- Again When You Give "Voice" To Your
'Opinions' : That's Freedom of Speech !
- And that is Democracy at the most basic level.
Yes in 'Theory' Democracy is Every Person have
and "Equal Vote" in the Running of a Society.
-and- The Right to Speak in the Public Forum before
the Vote to Affect the Outcome of "The Vote".
A Real True Democracy would naturally evolve
from Freedom of Thought {Form an Opinion}
and Freedom of Speech {Express Your Opinion}
-however- In Practice often Democracies in time
degenerate to the Rule of the Masses and {Tyranny
of the Mob} directed by Populist Leaders {Elitists}.
the freedom-to-think is just a . . . t h o u g h t . . . ~ RHF©
.
.
Afthrmy, -with-respect-to-
?Q? Are the US Declaration of Independence;
the US Constitution; and the US Bill of Rights
Worthy of Our Praise ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/53bbaa4d8989f0ca
The Answer is simple* : Yes -or- No
* Without 'Any' Qualifications : -ifs- -ands- /or/ -buts-
Note - BpnJ understood that; and answer simply
from his heart : "From me, resounding YES."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/0de2f34d8121f4f8
eaflap ~ RHF
.
.
cuh...@webtv.net
Vote for the joint you think serves the best burger.
http://www.mississippisbestburger.com
Beef, it's whats for Dinner.
No stinkin vegiburgers allowed!
cuhulin
arthr...@webtv.net
>
> The Answer is simple* : Yes -or- No
>
> * Without 'Any' Qualifications : -ifs- -ands- /or/ -buts-
>
> Note - BpnJ understood that; and answer simply
> from his heart : "From me, resounding YES."http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/0de2f34d8121f4f8
>
> eaflap ~ RHF
> .
>
> - Show quoted text -
That is pretty much what I meant. Now , let us imagine that the
Founding Fathers arose and saw what was going on in D.C. lately !
Would they go back (using Philadelphia experiment technology) and
start from square one?
RHF
- Would they go back (using Philadelphia experiment technology) and
- start from square one?
Nah - They would most likely stay here
and all be yelling 'lets party dude'
.
arthr...@webtv.net
More than likely...
Day Brown
> said laws should reflect the will and needs of the MAJORITY racial/
> freedom for local populations and would be MUCH preferable to the
> thuggish "tyranny of the minority" we suffer under today, where the
> majority White population are 2nd class citizens who are forced, even
> sometimes at gunpoint, to assist in the destruction of their own
> civilization and culture.
My neck of Ozark woods is 99.9% white. Look up the counties and hill
towns north of I-40 between I-540 and US 65. Towns like Alpina, Bee
Branch, Clinton, Deer, Flippin, Eureka Springs, Greer's Ferry, Heber
Springs,.. and so on thru the alphabet.
Then look at the school reports at
http://normessasweb.uark.edu/schoolperformance/School/School.php
REPEATEDLY, you see ZERO rates of violence. Drop out rates in the single
digits, graduation rates near or over 90%, 95% attendance.
This is still white family farm country. They still spank here, and do
it in school too. You are given a form to fill out if you dont want the
paddle used on your boy, but no bully would let a parent wimp him out
like that. People here dont use drugs to adjust a kids attitude, but
still use the woodshed. Still works.
Unemployment still at or below 7%.
If you want a white country, there is one to move to. Put up or shut up.
--
When the Goddess invented sex, She was beside Herself.
Day Brown
> I'm pretty sure Ben Franklin used electricity to communicate with his
> peers (lots of sparks). He also turned down the offer to become the
> first President. And he just might have been one of the main
> contributors in writing the Constitution. And if some people see the
> articles in different colors /shades, well ...that is by definition
> "freedom of speech" .Everyone is entitled to his /her own opinion.
> And that is Democracy at the most basic level.
result of media manipulation.
Some of the rational few understand how corporate media foments
controversy because the emotionality raises attention, ratings, and
thereby profits from advertisers.
For instance, there are scores of websites reporting on medical
marijuana that have no reports in the corporate mass media because it
gets paid for selling patented pills, and you cant patent an herb.
We dont have the "free press" the Founding Farmers envisioned.
Back in 69, when the house next door became vacant, I told my friend
Bill MacMurry, who moved in, and we had a joint open house party. The
cops arrived, the search warrant had the wrong name and address, but no
matter, the previous tenant, a cocaine dealer left drugs in the place
Bill got arrested for.
The Tampa tribune put his face in the paper under the headline "Middle
school teacher arrested for drugs." I wrote them the truth, but they
would not print the truth. Their story was too emotionally juicy. So, I
went to the USF college antiwar newspaper, who printed the truth.
The cops trashed the newspaper office in a drug search 3 weeks later.
They did not find anything.
After I graduated, I moved to New Orleans where I thot it was less
oppressive, and began writing for the antiwar newspaper there. That
office was trashed twice by drug searches, and in the five years I lived
there, they searched my residence 6 times.
Once, they came in on a Halloween party and arrested me for drugs guests
dropped on the floor as the cops showed. The judge threw that case out
of court. The other five times nothing was found.
After major surgery, I moved to the backwoods Ozarks. After Law
enforcement searched my barn in 1998, I was sure there was a systemic
problem. There was nobody there for an informer to get a tip on because
my house had burned down and I'd moved away.
The Marshall Mountain wave took photos of the lab equipment and
chemicals and called it "The biggest meth lab ever in NW Arkansas."
Nothing illegal was found. But the story covered the front page of the
newspaper. You begin to see the pattern, how the war on drugs creates
newsworthy reports for the media? No matter that its bullshit.
Since then, there's been three more searches, and I've yet to got
trial, which may finally happen 9/17/2010. Is the Bill of Rights worth
more than the paper its printed on?
Details at http://daybrown.org and http://assetseizure.org Maybe the
Internet can finally get thru to the public for the media sure wont.
f. barnes
> On 09/05/2010 03:32 PM, DEFCON 88 wrote:> said laws should reflect the will and needs of the MAJORITY racial/
> > religious group in each state and city. That would provide the maximum
> > freedom for local populations and would be MUCH preferable to the
> > thuggish "tyranny of the minority" we suffer under today, where the
> > majority White population are 2nd class citizens who are forced, even
> > sometimes at gunpoint, to assist in the destruction of their own
> > civilization and culture.
>
> My neck of Ozark woods is 99.9% white. Look up the counties and hill
> towns north of I-40 between I-540 and US 65. Towns like Alpina, Bee
> Branch, Clinton, Deer, Flippin, Eureka Springs, Greer's Ferry, Heber
> Springs,.. and so on thru the alphabet.
>
> REPEATEDLY, you see ZERO rates of violence. Drop out rates in the single
> digits, graduation rates near or over 90%, 95% attendance.
And the liberals call us ignorant, uneducated, rednecks, and they
won't believe a word you've posted.
dave
> On Sep 13, 4:18 pm, Day Brown<dayhbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Then look at the school reports athttp://normessasweb.uark.edu/schoolperformance/School/School.php
>> REPEATEDLY, you see ZERO rates of violence. Drop out rates in the single
>> digits, graduation rates near or over 90%, 95% attendance.
>
> And the liberals call us ignorant, uneducated, rednecks, and they
> won't believe a word you've posted.
>
I totally believe him. Sounds like a delightful place.
He says there's no violence in schools, but also brags that parents
hit their children, another form of violence.
John Smith
> We're supposed to interpret it the way we see fit. Meanings change over
> time.
Actually, what you interpret as "vague" was meant to me, and is a loud
and dramatic statement, it means, "VERY LIMITED GOVERNMENT!"
Regards,
JS
cuh...@webtv.net
from that democrap who lives behind that house next door to doggy's
couch.That door is the kind of door that is made of thin wall square
section tubes, up and down, y'all have seen those doors before.
So, a couple of weeks ago I brought that door around front to be sure it
will fit up ok, it will.What it is, that door has some rust (Rust Never
Sleeps) on it and that flimsy screen wire on that door is ripped and
raggety.I am in the process now of fixing that door up so it will look
as good as one of those new doors.What it was though, a couple of weeks
ago when I brought that door around front, those democraps who live
across the street from doggy's couch, they were laughing their democrap
asses off at my door.
Looka here, this neighborhood isn't nowhere near as safe as it used to
be, if ya get me drift? If somebody busts into their democrap house,,,,
I AM GOING TO LAUGH MY IRISH ARSE OFF AT THOSE democraps!
cuhulin
dave
It's a little late for that.
Where exactly does it say"very limited government"? If the government is
the people why would they want to limit the people?
John Smith
> ...
> It's a little late for that.
>
> Where exactly does it say"very limited government"? If the government is
> the people why would they want to limit the people?
In the part which says that any powers not given (mentioned) are
reserved for the state and people ... better late than never ...
Regards,
JS
RHF
> f. barnes wrote:
> > On Sep 13, 4:18 pm, Day Brown<dayhbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Then look at the school reports athttp://normessasweb.uark.edu/schoolperformance/School/School.php
> >> REPEATEDLY, you see ZERO rates of violence. Drop out rates in the single
> >> digits, graduation rates near or over 90%, 95% attendance.
>
> > And the liberals call us ignorant, uneducated, rednecks, and they
> > won't believe a word you've posted.
>
> I totally believe him. Sounds like a delightful place.
>
- but also brags that parents hit their children,
- another form of violence.
'Special Dave' was it done in rage and anger . . .
or out of love and goodness ?
'Special Dave' it's called "Tough Love"
Not Done In Anger -butt- Administered to :
Educated About Right & Wrong
To Discourage Bad Acts and Encourage Good Behavior
Setting A Standard To Gauge Their Actions and Deeds
-wrt- Socially Acceptable Actions on their Part and How
They Impact Others.
America Teach Your Children Well :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az9Az6S1nus
To Be Good Americans and Family Members
Proud Patriotic Americans That Love Their Country
Hardworking Self-Supporting Americans With Jobs
God {Allah} Bless The Children - Amen & eaflap ~ RHF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhR36gV6vW4
.
.
Day Brown
then the student will learn self control. Teachers, or anyone else who
was emotionally involved do not administer the spanking. That is done by
the principle in his office.
That's not violence. A parent hitting a kid because the parent is angry
is violence. But to teach the kid not to run in the street, is discipline.
Its worth noting the culture is a mix of long term farm families with
1st and 2nd generation Hippies who moved here wanting a healthy place to
raise kids. We all get along just fine.
Most of the hard corps ignorant rednecks got into meth, and moved to the
city where the welfare benefits are more generous and the liquor stores
are closer. Van Buren county pop is 12,000. The Jail only holds 58, of
which half are state and federal prisoners it is paid to keep.
Ergo, the incarceration rate of the population is 0.2%; compare that to
where you live. One time, coming back from out of state at 3AM, I passed
by the basketball court in Leslie. The ball laid on the grass at the
edge of the court in case anyone wanted to play. Consider how long it'd
take to be stolen where you live.
I dont have a house key. Even if I did lock it, out in the country,
nobody'd hear the glass of a window being broken to get in. But there
are no breakins I know about.
15 years ago, there was some stealing started. But folks realized where
the truck that had the same tire print from the crime scenes was, and
used a 30-30 to write an exit visa in the truck, with the implication
that next time, we wont wait for it to be parked. The grandsons, who'd
come to stay with grandpa, moved back to LA.
Back before agribusiness replaced family farms, it was like this all
over rural America. The land here is too steep for the large contiguous
tracts agribusiness likes.
bpnjensen
As long as you have a Republic, people will hand over the reigns to
the representatives to do the hard work. In exchange for having
elected people to sit down and work out the hard and complex details
of difficult legislation, power will be concentrated and expanded in
places that you'd rather not see it. Such is the nature of a
republic. People who believe otherwise are fooling themselves.
The only way to avoid this and maintain something other than a
dictatorship, and it is a severely double-edged sword, is through
direct Democracy. With that, the people make ALL the rules and bypass
the middleman of the republic. But, beware - there is nothing more
disjointed and cumbersome and damned downright confusing than a set of
laws created by The People.
My guess is that both of these ideas work better on a very small scale
- like in a town or a county. Once you get to the Statewide level,
things start breaking down again, and at the national level - well,
you see what we have.
You have to choose your poison, or go live in Antarctica.
cuh...@webtv.net
my little couch buddy doggy is extremely intelligent.How/why she puts up
with me, I just don't know.Maybe she takes pity on me?
http://www.cattledog.com
http://www.acdca.org
WOOF WOOF.
cuhulin
arthr...@webtv.net
It work very well in the ancient Greek city-states. Look what had
happened since they have joined the Common Market and EU !
bpnjensen
Yes - they were much smaller than 2010 USA. A lot of history
transpired between the Fall of Greece I and the Fall of Greece II !!!
Modern Greece is, I am afraid, in a position similar to California.
My theory - The European Union, of which they are now a part, holds
the keys to the treasury and the money machine, much like the US
Treasury. The larger conglomeration can print money if it needs to
pay off its debts (albeit at an inflated rate), while the individual
nation-state cannot do this (as Greece used to be able to do). Nether
Greece nor California can print its own $$$ like the larger system, so
they are in economic hot water.
Bruce Jense4n
arthr...@webtv.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
That sounds like the 'Big Brother' is not a fiction at all...
RHF
> On 09/14/2010 03:30 PM, dave wrote:
>
> > f. barnes wrote:
> >> On Sep 13, 4:18 pm, Day Brown<dayhbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Then look at the school reports
> >>> athttp://normessasweb.uark.edu/schoolperformance/School/School.php
> >>> REPEATEDLY, you see ZERO rates of violence. Drop out rates in the single
> >>> digits, graduation rates near or over 90%, 95% attendance.
>
> >> And the liberals call us ignorant, uneducated, rednecks, and they
> >> won't believe a word you've posted.
>
> > I totally believe him. Sounds like a delightful place.
>
> > He says there's no violence in schools, but also brags that parents hit
> > their children, another form of violence.
- The Stoic principle is, that if the administrator is self
controlled,
- then the student will learn self control. Teachers, or anyone else
who
- was emotionally involved do not administer the spanking. That is
done by
- the principle in his office.
-translation- You got a "D' in Gym Class . . .
Your Daddy Gona Whip Your Ass
. . . When He Gets Home and I tell him . . .
RHF
- According to
- http://www.akc.org/breeds/australian_cattle_dog
- my little couch buddy doggy is extremely intelligent.
- How/why she puts up with me, I just don't know.
- Maybe she takes pity on me?
- http://www.cattledog.comhttp://www.acdca.org
- WOOF WOOF.
- cuhulin
Often our little Animal Friends have
a far Bigger Heart then we do , , ,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwXoNnffVKc
.
RHF
- You have to choose your poison,
- or go live in Antarctica.
That's a Chilling Thought . . .
.
RHF
- It work very well in the ancient Greek city-states.
- Look what had happened since they have joined
- the Common Market and EU !
A lot of time and history has transpired between
the 'Ancient Greek City-States' of many Centuries
ago and what is now called "Modern Greece" today . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_modern_Greece
.
dave
More vagueness. I think you mean the states. The amendment before the
one you attempted to quote says we have other rights, besides those
listed in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
And "the people" manifests in our form of government as the House of
Representatives.
I'll make a deal with you. If you agree to disband the military, except
for a National Guard, I'll give up the Department of Education.
dave
> On Sep 14, 1:30 pm, dave<d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>>
> - He says there's no violence in schools,
> - but also brags that parents hit their children,
> - another form of violence.
>
> 'Special Dave' was it done in rage and anger . . .
> or out of love and goodness ?
>
It is wrong to strike another, except when in fear of immediate threat
to life and limb.
dave
>
> Back before agribusiness replaced family farms, it was like this all
> over rural America. The land here is too steep for the large contiguous
> tracts agribusiness likes.
I sold my farm back in 1986.
dave
>
> It work very well in the ancient Greek city-states. Look what had
> happened since they have joined the Common Market and EU !
Libertarian Socialists like City States. It is the biggest form of
government we tolerate.
RHF
> John Smith wrote:
> > On 9/3/2010 8:34 PM, dave wrote:
> >> We're supposed to interpret it the way we see fit. Meanings change over
> >> time.
>
> > Actually, what you interpret as "vague" was meant to me, and is a loud
> > and dramatic statement, it means, "VERY LIMITED GOVERNMENT!"
>
> > Regards,
> > JS
>
> It's a little late for that.
- Where exactly does it say"very limited government"?
'Special Dave',
All Un-Alienable Rights That Are Not Vested
in 'We The People'
* and clearly defined as the Duties of the Federal
Government {Federation}
* are Reserved To The Individual {United} States . . .
-ergo- Limited Role* of the US Federal Government [.]
* Duties and Responsibilities {Functions}
- If the government is the people
-special-dave- 'We The People' -are- "We The People"
- why would they want to limit the people?
The US Federal Government is simply the
'limited' agent of "We The People"
-since- "We The People" reside in the
Individual States except for 'DC'
-and- "We The People" are 1st and foremost
are Citizens of those Individual States
-and- in-addition Citizen of the Federation
of those States 'collectively' The USA.
The 'Primary Agent' of "We The People" are
the 'Individual States' that we reside in . . .
NOT The US Federal Government which was
collectively formed by the 'Individual States'
as the 'Primary Agent' of "We The People" as
a Collective Umbrella Organization for National
Defense, International Diplomacy and Global
Commerce.
A Citizen of the "California Republic" [USA] ~ RHF
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Republic
.
.
Right Now 'this People is Listening to :
"Welcome To My World" -by- Jim Reeves
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_sU0pAE-fE
-via- 'The Power Hour' with Joyce Riley
http://www.thepowerhour.com/
http://www.gcnlive.com/schedule.php
http://www.gcnlive.com/mediaPlayers/livePlayer.php
WWCR on 7,490 kHz 12:00 ~ 15:00 UTC [M-F]
WWCR on 4,840 kHz 07:00 ~ 10:00 UTC [M-F]
WWCR on 13,845 kHz 12:00 ~ 15:00 UTC [M-F]
.
.
RHF
- Modern Greece is, I am afraid, in a position similar to California.
Los Californianos* need to DEMAND that each and
every one of the California Elected US Senators and
US Congress persons Demand that California get
each and every Dollar Pay by Californians in US
Federal {IRS] Taxes Returned to California in
Federal Spending.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/27faca882fb518a0
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/ee687020b885ae69
* All the Citizens of the 'California Republic'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Republic
.
Prez-A-Duntz Obama - return to the Citizens of the
California Republic all the US Federal Tax Dollars :
Stop Stealing from California and driving up our
Unemployment and Bankrupting California
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.liberalism/msg/c0167411acc7b56b
.
-wrt- The California State Economy :
A Casualty of the US Federal Government's
Tax and Spend Robbery of the Citizens of
the California Republic (State of California)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/faa3aa477f59a347
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/1a1382e80a5bf8c9
.
Grendel
Well, I have to say, that can be ranked as the most idiotic,
simplistic, ignorant and outright bullshit statement made on the
internet today.
Yol Bolsun,
Grendel.
"I'm not cynical, just experienced."
RHF
> RHF wrote:
> > On Sep 14, 1:30 pm, dave<d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>
> > - He says there's no violence in schools,
> > - but also brags that parents hit their children,
> > - another form of violence.
>
- - or out of love and goodness ?
- It is wrong to strike another,
- except when in fear of immediate threat
- to life and limb.
So... 'Special Dave',
All "Contact" Sports Should Be Banned !
.
RHF
> arthrny...@webtv.net wrote:
>
- - It work very well in the ancient Greek city-states. Look what had
- - happened since they have joined the Common Market and EU !
- Libertarian Socialists like City States.
- It is the biggest form of government we tolerate.
But 'Special Dave" just a few posts ago . . .
You were an "Anarchist Socialism" or was it
a "Libertarian-Anarchist" geez idk ~ RHF
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_anarchism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
http://libertariananarchy.com/
http://www.lewrockwell.com/long/long11.html
http://www.chaospark.com/politics/reid12.htm
.
No State : Are You Really a Libertarian-Anarchist ?
http://www.nostate.com/2917/are-you-really-a-libertariananarchist/
http://www.nostate.com/about/
.
Are 'Libertarians' really "Anarchists" ?
http://mises.org/daily/2801
.
Images of Libertarian-Socialists-Anarchists-skies
.
http://www.rumorsdaily.com/brd/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/no-exit-libertarianism-anarchy-for-rich-people.GIF
.
http://www.ozarkia.net/bill/anarchism/pictures/AnarchismTree07.gif
.
http://michellesantos.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/liberal_brain1.jpg&t=1
.
http://www.civismundi.net/08ideology-left.png
.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2065/2378897283_f799b3b3e0.jpg?v=0
.
http://libcom.org/files/star-big.png?1229335976
.
.
bpnjensen
...and possibly the biggest form of "nation" that can stand up to the
ravages of time and politics.
Kevin Alfred Strom
> John Smith wrote:
>> On 9/14/2010 4:05 PM, dave wrote:
>>
>>> ...
>>> It's a little late for that.
>>>
>>> Where exactly does it say"very limited government"? If the
>>> government is
>>> the people why would they want to limit the people?
>>
>> In the part which says that any powers not given (mentioned) are
>> reserved for the state and people ... better late than never ...
>>
>> Regards,
>> JS
>
> More vagueness. I think you mean the states. The amendment before
> the one you attempted to quote says we have other rights, besides
> those listed in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
>
> And "the people" manifests in our form of government as the House of
> Representatives.
No. "Congress" and "the people" are specified separately and quite
differently within the US Constitution, so they can't possibly refer
to the same thing.
Furthermore, I can think of few things more antithetical to the
people than the House of Representatives.
The founders must have been aware that such a situation could
evolve, hence their repeated words "Congress shall make no law..."
-- surely the most important statement in the entire document.
Coupled with the Tenth Amendment, _that's_ limited government.
With every good wish,
Kevin.
--
http://kevinalfredstrom.com/
dave
> On Sep 14, 4:05 pm, dave<d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>> John Smith wrote:
>>> On 9/3/2010 8:34 PM, dave wrote:
>>>> We're supposed to interpret it the way we see fit. Meanings change over
>>>> time.
>>
>>> Actually, what you interpret as "vague" was meant to me, and is a loud
>>> and dramatic statement, it means, "VERY LIMITED GOVERNMENT!"
>>
>>> Regards,
>>> JS
>>
>> It's a little late for that.
>
> - Where exactly does it say"very limited government"?
>
> 'Special Dave',
>
> All Un-Alienable Rights That Are Not Vested
> in 'We The People'
> * and clearly defined as the Duties of the Federal
> Government {Federation}
> * are Reserved To The Individual {United} States . . .
>
> -ergo- Limited Role* of the US Federal Government [.]
That's what I thought.
bpnjensen
>
> * All the Citizens of the 'California Republic'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Republic
> .
> Prez-A-Duntz Obama - return to the Citizens of the
> California Republic all the US Federal Tax Dollars :
> Stop Stealing from California and driving up our
> .
> -wrt- The California State Economy :
> A Casualty of the US Federal Government's
> Tax and Spend Robbery of the Citizens of
> .
> .
>
>
>
> > My theory - The European Union, of which they are now a part, holds
> > the keys to the treasury and the money machine, much like the US
> > Treasury. The larger conglomeration can print money if it needs to
> > pay off its debts (albeit at an inflated rate), while the individual
> > nation-state cannot do this (as Greece used to be able to do). Nether
> > Greece nor California can print its own $$$ like the larger system, so
> > they are in economic hot water.
>
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
You're setting up an "us vs. them" paradigm in which it's California
vs. the rest of the US,
as though we are somehow separate and not intertwined with the rest of
the nation.
You know this is not true. What is good or bad for other states and
regions can have comparably
good and bad effects on California, and vice-versa.
Of course, you probably know which states rely most heavily on public
funding from the feds -
IIRC, the State that largely complains the most about big-brother type
government - Alaska - is alos the biggest sink for federal fuinds per
capita.
If we, and other "wealthy" (and I use the term loosely) states
demanded and got our money all back in some form,
places like Alaska would become third-world countries fast. That
would not be good for the people there or the Republic.
As much as I dislike Alaskan politics, I want the people there to live
satisfactory lives, and without the rest of us
pitching in to help, it likely won't happen. As a Californian, I am
happy to help out.
Bruce Jensen
dave
We do our best...
bpnjensen
Your rationale is noted.
dave
Only the one's where you intentionally strike people.
bpnjensen
>
> - Show quoted text -
Heh! Good double-meaning play, I like it :-)
dave
> On Sep 15, 6:32 am, dave<d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>> arthrny...@webtv.net wrote:
>>
> - - It work very well in the ancient Greek city-states. Look what had
> - - happened since they have joined the Common Market and EU !
>
> - Libertarian Socialists like City States.
> - It is the biggest form of government we tolerate.
> .
> No State : Are You Really a Libertarian-Anarchist ?
> http://www.nostate.com/2917/are-you-really-a-libertariananarchist/
> http://www.nostate.com/about/
All the same. Left Libertarian. Anarchist Socialist. Whatever.
bpnjensen
>
> - Show quoted text -
...but in the US it's been this way since dirt. Each individual state
is it's own "nation" so to speak, with its own government and issues
to address, but the U.S. is Union of many states, is a supreme entity
with an overarching legal framework (the Constitution) and is the one
that prints the common currency. We here in the U.S. (especially
conservatives, generally) complain that we don't want to be like, or
be part of, the European Union, deeming it socialist and so forth -
but in reality, the EU is based loosely on what the U.S. already
is...a larger framework for the common good of all the member states.
California could, I suppose, print its own "greenbacks" to start to
pay off its debts - I am not an economist per se, so I do not know
what advantage that would gain us - but I doubt if it would work very
well, as currency is supposed to be based on *something*, either gold
or silver or other valuable commodity, which we do not have in
abundance just now. Such is the case now with Greece - its drachmas
are no longer much good by themselves.
Bruce
Grendel
>
> - Show quoted text -
Rationale? The ignorance and bullshit factor of that statement is
self explanatory to anyone with a functioning brain.
But as both of you seem to lack that functioning brain, I will gladly
explain just a little of the rationale as to why the statement is
bullshit.
First:
For the statement to be even close to accurate, it would have to be
morally reprehensible to spank a child, and it is far from it. You
may not agree with it, but your narrow viewpoint does not dictate the
morals for everyone. (and before you ask, I have found the need to
spank my children.)
Second:
The following activities that involve physical contact would have to
be banned on moral grounds, also:
-Football
-Rugby
-Lacrosse
-Water polo
-Wrestling
-Martial Arts
-Taekwondo,
-Jujutsu,
-Karate
-Ice hockey,
-Boxing of all kinds,
-Consensual S&M sex.
-Friendly wrestlling matches
---Just to name a few
Third:
The following activities that MIGHT RESULT in physical contact would
have to be banned on moral grounds:
-Baseball
-Basketball
-Field hockey
-Netball
-Squash
-Golf
-Jogging
-Children playing (would have to ban playgrounds also...dangerous
places)
-Any sex, period (which you obviously are not familiar with).
-Walking down the street.
-Going outside your house at any time.
---Just to name a very few.
Might as well outlaw that entire 'Right to Assemble', too, as their's
always the possibility you might accidentally bump into someone.
Idiots.
bpnjensen
> First:
> For the statement to be even close to accurate, it would have to be
> morally reprehensible to spank a child, and it is far from it. You
> may not agree with it, but your narrow viewpoint does not dictate the
> morals for everyone. (and before you ask, I have found the need to
> spank my children.)
Then you are unethical, and YES I can make that statement, which is
different from dictating it (*Learn* the difference if learning is
within your ability). Tough shit if you don't like it, you brutal
bastard.
> Second:
> The following activities that involve physical contact would have to
> be banned on moral grounds, also:
> -Football
> -Rugby
> -Lacrosse
> -Water polo
> -Wrestling
> -Martial Arts
> -Taekwondo,
> -Jujutsu,
> -Karate
> -Ice hockey,
> -Boxing of all kinds,
> -Consensual S&M sex.
> -Friendly wrestlling matches
> ---Just to name a few
Lousy analogy... all of these things are VOLUNTARY, unlike your
child's sad acceptance of his terrible fate at the hand of a person
who *supposedly* loves him. Your lack of not-so-subtle discernment is
noted. Do you bash your wife around that too? Is that yourway of
showing how much you love her?
> Third:
> The following activities that MIGHT RESULT in physical contact would
> have to be banned on moral grounds:
> -Baseball
> -Basketball
> -Field hockey
> -Netball
> -Squash
> -Golf
> -Jogging
> -Children playing (would have to ban playgrounds also...dangerous
> places)
> -Any sex, period (which you obviously are not familiar with).
> -Walking down the street.
> -Going outside your house at any time.
> ---Just to name a very few.
Again, ALL voluntary. Just how stupid are you?
> Might as well outlaw that entire 'Right to Assemble', too, as their's
> always the possibility you might accidentally bump into someone.
>
> Idiots.
My God - what planet are your from? You compare voluntarily playing a
game for fun to getting abused by your parents, and you have the balls
to call someone else an idiot? I guess soem coward who is not using
his real name is willing to say anything...
Bruce Jensen
> Yol Bolsun,
> Grendel.
>
> "I'm not cynical, just brutal and stupid."
bpnjensen
Contact sports are voluntary. The player knows what he/she is in
for. Big difference.
Day Brown
> f. barnes wrote:
>> On Sep 13, 4:18 pm, Day Brown<dayhbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>
>>> Then look at the school reports
>>> athttp://normessasweb.uark.edu/schoolperformance/School/School.php
>>> REPEATEDLY, you see ZERO rates of violence. Drop out rates in the single
>>> digits, graduation rates near or over 90%, 95% attendance.
>>
>> And the liberals call us ignorant, uneducated, rednecks, and they
>> won't believe a word you've posted.
>>
> I totally believe him. Sounds like a delightful place.
>
> He says there's no violence in schools, but also brags that parents hit
> their children, another form of violence.
Both primate field studies and neurological lab work reveal that pain
will alter the hormone profile. You can do the same with drugs, but I
dunno of any longitudinal study on the ultimate effect of people who
grew up on Ritalin or whatever.
But history, all the way back to the Roman Stoics, is full of examples
of pain being properly applied to, as we now know, lower the
testosterone level and reduce the impulsivity caused by adrenalin, and
make the boy pay attention. They didnt have ADD problems then, and I
dont see it now among the farm boys who know where the woodshed is.
Robt Kaplan, in his study of the military, "Imperial Grunts" reports
that half the Green Berets grew up on family farms. You'd think the
Brass would notice, but they are too busy with deals for the military
industrial complex.
The fundamental diff I see that is not picked up on is that pain that is
inflicted without self control is abuse, but with it, is a time tested
method of adjusting attitudes. Course, you can adjust attitudes with
meth also.
As for the snide remark about getting a D in gym, it shows ignorance of
what modern farm life is like now. You dont stay in the family business
by being that stupid. Agribusiness and govt policy has driven all but
the most diligent and intelligent family farms out of business. That has
something to do with why these hill towns have grades that are 1/2 year
ahead of the national average.
--
When the Goddess invented sex, She was beside Herself.
Day Brown
man with two young helpers he was apparently teaching how to string
fence. Afterwards, I noticed its a real professional job.
But sometimes ponder the fact that both young helpers were women. Women
run the forklifts and log skidders at the saw mill. I see them behind
the parts counter, and they know where the hydraulic fluid is, or what a
combination wrench looks like.
Day Brown
> On Sep 15, 8:35 am, Grendel<wstho...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> First:
>> For the statement to be even close to accurate, it would have to be
>> morally reprehensible to spank a child, and it is far from it. You
>> may not agree with it, but your narrow viewpoint does not dictate the
>> morals for everyone. (and before you ask, I have found the need to
>> spank my children.)
>
> Then you are unethical, and YES I can make that statement, which is
> different from dictating it (*Learn* the difference if learning is
> within your ability). Tough shit if you don't like it, you brutal
> bastard.
up. Nor history. Epictetus:"The boy who learned to control slaves (and
today they are electronic), does not learn to control himself."
I've spanked a toddler to keep him from going in the street and getting
run over. At this age, reasoning with him is not effective.
In the hill town schools, if a boy is disruptive, the teacher calls the
office and enough other people arrive to take him in hand, literally
picking him up. This is primate instinctive behavior at work. Soon as
the boy is up off his feet, he realizes there is power greater than his
will to try to dominate and control others.
The spanking itself is merely the apex of a psychological process which
only takes a few seconds. Without it, such bullies would be physically
abusing smaller kids. Totally avoiding what you say is abuse is not
possible. Controlling it is, and while you may use drugs, I am very
concerned because there are no long term studies of the effect.
You got any kids we can try drugs out on?
Its instructive that you resort to ad hominem. The science is that
properly administered pain adjusts hormone levels, and with that the
behavior which risks abuse of other kids stops. Now, if you have any
other research besides your anal orifice, I'd be glad to see it.