RG-6 for HF?
Brian
a couple of pretty long wires and my Wellbrook ALA-1530. I've pretty much
decided on RG-6 for a couple of 150 ft. runs because the stuff's dirt cheap
and I can pick it up at the local Home Depot. Is the impedance mismatch here
going to be negligible, or should I just bite the bullet and go with RG-8 or
a similar 50 ohm coax?
-Brian
dxsa...@myisp.com
wrote:
Go with the RG-6, the loss at HF is negligable - in fact I believe
less than RG-58 and perhaps RG-8 as well. The 'mismatch' isn't an
issue at all & your receiver will likely never know it either. If
you are putting together the antenna yourself I suggest using a panel
mount 'F' connector at your feed point, use the coax as-is from the
box - though I cheat at the radio end and use an 'F' to UHF adapter.
David
RHF
-
- I finally got a house out in the woods on five acres and
- I'm going to set up a couple of pretty long wires and my
- Wellbrook ALA-1530. I've pretty much decided on RG-6
- for a couple of 150 ft. runs because the stuff's dirt cheap
- and I can pick it up at the local Home Depot.
-
- Is the impedance mismatch here going to be negligible,
- or should I just bite the bullet and go with RG-8 or a
- similar 50 ohm coax?
-
- -Brian
-
Brian,
RG6 Coax Cable will work A-OK with only the smallest of
Impedance Mismatches over RG58 or RG8.
Consider the 'Quad-Shield' type of the RG6 Coax Cable.
# 1 - Search around your Backyard for an RF 'Quiet' Location
before Planting your Wellbrook Antenna. :o)
Mount the Wellbrook Loop Antenna where you can : the best
that you can for your Property and Location.
Place a Ground Rod at the base of the Wellbrook Loop Antenna.
Mount an F-Connector Pass-Through type Grounding Block
on the Ground Rod and Run a short Coax Cable down to this
Grounding Block; and then your main {long} Coax Cable from
the Grounding Block to you House.
If you can : Bury the Coax Cable from the Grounding Block
to the House.
You should have a good in-the-earth 8-Foot Ground Rod as
the basis for you Radio Shack's Ground that is Bonded
{Connected} to your House's AC Mains Electrical System
Ground.
TIP - For Active Shortwave Listener's Antennas like the
Wellbrook Loop Antenna and many others : A One-Piece
Antenna Mast made from a single piece of 21-Foot Long
Top-Rail works very well.
* One Piece of Metal Pipe-Tube with a Solid Electrical Path.
* Relatively Light and Easy to Handle by One Person.
* Three Feet in the Ground leaves 18-Feet in the Air.
* Base can be Telescoped into a Larger Diameter 3-Feet
piece of Metal Pipe-Tube which is placed in an 6~8 Inch
Hole and surrounded by Concret that is used as a Support
Anchor for the Top-Rail and Antenna.
* Allows for a Free Standing Antenna without the need for
any Guy Wires or Ropes
* Place the Ground Rod within 3~6 Inches of the Top-Rail and
connect a Short-Heavy Ground Wire-Strap-Web between them.
the Result is that you have a Solid One-Piece Ground Active
Antenna Support that places your Antenna 18-Feet Up-in-the-Air.
good luck with your wellbrook loop antenna ~ RHF
.
RHF
- I'm going to set up a couple of pretty long wires
-
- and my Wellbrook ALA-1530. I've pretty much decided
- on RG-6 for a couple of 150 ft. runs because the stuff's
- dirt cheap and I can pick it up at the local Home Depot.
-
- Is the impedance mismatch here going to be negligible,
- or should I just bite the bullet and go with RG-8 or a
- similar 50 ohm coax?
-
- -Brian
-
Brian,
For the Longwire Antennas {Random Wire} consider the
Inverted "L" Antenna.
READ - For Basic Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL)
-Think- Inverted "L" Antenna
http://www.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/fa0a3255b9ad5367
READ -Why- The Far-End-Fed Shortwave Listener's (SWLs)
Inverted "L" Antenna
http://www.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/22cfc6b9cb2447c0
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/11698
Re-READ - SWL Longwire + Low Noise Antenna Connection
+ Grounding Is Key To Good Reception -by- John Doty
http://www.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/1abc6a2bf8acc12d
Two separate but identical Inverted "L" Antennas both with 15~30
Foot Vertical-Up-Legs and 75~120 Foot Horizontal-Out-Arms.
Located with the Antenna Feed-Points about 75~120 Feet apart
and use a separate Ground Rod for each Antenna.
Position the Horizontal-Out-Arm Wire Antenna Elements so that
they are Perpendicular 90 Degrees to each other : N2S and E2W
Think of the Two Inverted "L" Antennas as Diversity Antennas
Being Both : Opposites -but- Equal.
good luck with your longwire antennas ~ RHF {pomkia}
.
Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antennas Group => http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
GoTo => http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
The SWL Antenna Discussion Group => http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna HELP => http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna NEWS => http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna INFO => http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
* * * All Are Welcome : Including ELMERS and 'Want-to-be-Elmers'
plus plain old "Mister-Know-It-Alls"; and even those Newbees with
"I Know This Is A Really Dumb Question - But _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "
.
Shortwave Radio Listener QSL Reports News & Info Group
http://groups.google.com/group/shortwave-listener-qsl-reports
Read & Post Your Shortwave Listener (SWL) Reception Reports
SWL-QSL-REPORTS => http://tinyurl.com/3awlyr
.
The Shortwave Listener's Blessing :
SWL BLESSING => http://tinyurl.com/s2bjm
May You Never Tire of Listening to the Radio and Always
have Strong Signals and Noise Free Reception ~ RHF {ibid}
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/9233
.
Tous Sont Bienvenus ! - - - Groupe par Radio
d'auditeur d'onde courte pour des Antennes de SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Alle Sind Willkommen ! - - - Shortwave Radiozuhörer
Gruppe für SWL Antennen
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Tutti Sono Benvenuti ! - - - Gruppo Radiofonico
dell'ascoltatore di onda corta per le Antenne di SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Todos São Bem-vindos ! - - - Grupo de Rádio
do ouvinte do Shortwave para Antenas de SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
¡Todos Son Agradables! - - - Grupo de Radio del oyente
de la onda corta para las Antenas de SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
= = = = Plain Old American-English Translation = = = =
All are Welcome - - - To Join the Shortwave Listeners
(SWL) Antenna Group on YAHOO !
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
|
|
|
/ \
.......!.......
D Peter Maus
Alone, your receiver won't care. I doubt that the Wellbrook would,
either.
As a complex, however, you're going to have not one mismatch, but
two. One at the output of the Wellbrook loop, and one at the input of
the antenna interface. This may result in standing waves on the
transmission line which, in turn may result in irregularities in
performance.
With a reasonably well designed receiver, you'll likely not notice
any losses in practical listening. And unless you are working at the
very limits of performance on signals very far down in the noise and
doing A/B tests of one coax over another, you'll not detect the
performance irregularities.
msg
> I finally got a house out in the woods on five acres and I'm going to set up
> a couple of pretty long wires and my Wellbrook ALA-1530. I've pretty much
> decided on RG-6 for a couple of 150 ft. runs because the stuff's dirt cheap
> and I can pick it up at the local Home Depot.
<snip>
Be careful of coax purchases from Home Depot; strip the outer jacket and
inspect the braid before buying. Product that I have bought has lousy
shielding at low vhf (50 Mhz) and probably will be unsuitable at HF as
well. I don't remember the OEM.
Regards,
Michael
Telamon
"Brian" <imagina...@wtf.com> wrote:
I would not buy cable with the wrong impedance especially on the
Wellbrook because I don't know how well the amplifier at the head end
stands up to reflections. Some amplifiers become less stable into a load
other than what it was designed for. Why don't you fire off that
question to them.
On the wire antennas you will take a hit on performance depending on
frequency unless you use transformers on both ends.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
RHF
> Brian wrote:
> > I finally got a house out in the woods on five acres and I'm going to set up
> > a couple of pretty long wires and my Wellbrook ALA-1530. I've pretty much
> > decided on RG-6 for a couple of 150 ft. runs because the stuff's dirt cheap
> > and I can pick it up at the local Home Depot. Is the impedance mismatch here
> > going to be negligible, or should I just bite the bullet and go with RG-8 or
> > a similar 50 ohm coax?
>
> > -Brian
>
- either.
-
- As a complex, however, you're going to have not one mismatch, but
- two. One at the output of the Wellbrook loop, and one at the input
of
- the antenna interface. This may result in standing waves on the
- transmission line which, in turn may result in irregularities in
- performance.
-
- With a reasonably well designed receiver, you'll likely not
notice
- any losses in practical listening. And unless you are working at the
- very limits of performance on signals very far down in the noise and
- doing A/B tests of one coax over another, you'll not detect the
- performance irregularities.
-
DPM,
Then it becomes a Practical Implementation and CBA type Problem.
CBA = Cost Benefit Analysis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost-benefit_analysis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implementation
Cost of RG58/RG8 Coax Cable -versus- Cost of RG6 Quad-Shield
Coax Cable with a 75-to-50 Ohm Matching Transformer at each
end.
Starting with the Concept of a 9:1 Matching Transformer for General
Broad-Band Shortwave Radio (High Frequency 3~30 MHz) Use and
Application with 30 Turns (9-Side) and 10 Turns (1-Side) and the Same
Ferrite Core Material :
We now need a Matching Transformer to take the Antenna and Radios
SO-239 Jack/Plugs {BNC Connector Optional} -to- the 75 Ohm Coax
Cable with an F-Connector {BNC Connector Optional} .
The 50 Ohm 10 Turns (1-Side) should be understood.
Getting to the 75 Ohm (X-Side) should be simple Math :
75 / 50 = 1.5
Square Root of 1.5 = 1.225
Therefore the 75 Ohm (X-Side) would have 12 Turns.
A 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformer would have
12 Turns (1.5-Side) and 10 Turns (1-Side) and the Same Ferrite
Core Material -as- 9:1 Matching Transformer for General Broad
Band Shortwave Radio (High Frequency 3~30 MHz) Use and
Application.
Anyone Else Have Any Ideas : On a Building Your Own {DIY}
a 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformer ?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - -
The Next Question Becomes : At What Cost ?
* Are the 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformers
commercial available ? - a Ready Made Item ? Price ?
* Are the 75 Ohm to 50 Ohm [1.5:1] Matching Transformers a
Low Cost "Built-it-Yourself" Item ? - DIY Price ?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - -
DPM - I go back to your first statement : "Alone, your receiver
won't care. I doubt that the Wellbrook would, either."
IMHO - For the vast majority of Shortwave Radio Listeners (SWLs)
Practical Implementation Says : Just Do It ! - Use the RG6 Coax
Cable -and- enjoy listening to your radios - iane ~ RHF
.
David
Around here the top rail comes in 10' sections. Ever try to get a 20'
pipe into a pickup bed?
David
> .
> |
> |
> |
> / \
> .......!.......
I have a lazy twisted L HF receive antenna.
David
Use satellite rated quad shield.
David
I'd give it a try. I doubt modern active devices will have any trouble
with such a small difference.
RHF
> Brian wrote:
> > I finally got a house out in the woods on five acres and I'm going to set up
> > a couple of pretty long wires and my Wellbrook ALA-1530. I've pretty much
> > decided on RG-6 for a couple of 150 ft. runs because the stuff's dirt cheap
> > and I can pick it up at the local Home Depot.
>
> <snip>
- Be careful of coax purchases from Home Depot;
- strip the outer jacket and inspect the braid before buying.
- Product that I have bought has lousy shielding at low vhf
- (50 Mhz) and probably will be unsuitable at HF as well.
- I don't remember the OEM.
-
- Regards,
-
- Michael
-
MSG,
Yes the 'quality' of Coax Cable does vary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable#Standards
Especially when you buy 'Generic' Stuff at a BigBox
{Discount} Retailer at a Low Price.
Usually Quad-Shield RG6 {75 Ohm} Coax Cable is fairly good stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RG-6
http://www.hometech.com/techwire/coax.html#HT-RG6QB
http://www.hometech.com/techwire/coax.html#BE-1189A
http://www.hometech.com/techwire/coax.html#BE-7916A
* Two Aluminium Braid Shields 60% and 40%
* Two AL Foil 100% Shields
* Gas-Injected (Foamed) PE Dielectric
* Inner Conductor : Solid Copper or Copper-Clad-Steel
PVC Outer Jacket {Cover}
http://cableorganizer.com/coaxial-cables/rg6-quad-shield-coax-cable.html
http://www.homenetworkgear.com/catalog/model_5781.htm?sid=F173173DE8546BDBD4AFB545D46B26F8&pid=1207
Genesis* 1000 Feet Bulk RG-6 Quad Shield Coaxial Cable
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ130139914168
* Genesis Premium Broadband Cable, Manufactured by Honeywell
What Does "RG-6" {Coax Cable} Mean ?
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/rg6.htm
-presented by- Blue Jeans Cable
Note - Home Depot only lists one RG6 Coax Cable OnLine.
http://tinyurl.com/3y97cq
Brand 'BICC'
500 Ft. Black RG6 Quad-Shield Coaxial Cable
Model 92041-45-08 -
Cable Type : RG6/U
Impedance Ohms : 75 Ohms
Nominal O.D. : 0.307 In.
Wire Gauge/Number of Conductors : 1/18 AWG
Cable Length : 500 Ft.
Suitable for LAN, cable, digital video, and direct broadcast
satellite.
Sunlight Resistant - Coaxial Cable
Home Depot - http://www.homedepot.com/
CAUTION - The big problem with RG6 Coax Cable and even
the Quad-Shield type is the Aluminium Braid is not as good
a Conductor as Copper Braid.
TIP - You may have to run a Heavy Copper Wire along with
the RG6 Coax Cable to "Bond" your Antenna Ground with
your House's AC Mains Ground.
Be Advised - None of the above RG6 Coax Cable
is 'designated' for Direct Burial.
you got to be 'wired' to listen to the radio - iane ~ RHF {pomkia}
RHF
> On Dec 30, 9:44 pm, msg <msg@_cybertheque.org_> wrote:> Brian wrote:
> > > I finally got a house out in the woods on five acres and I'm going to set up
> > > a couple of pretty long wires and my Wellbrook ALA-1530. I've pretty much
> > > decided on RG-6 for a couple of 150 ft. runs because the stuff's dirt cheap
> > > and I can pick it up at the local Home Depot.
>
> > <snip>
>
> -
> - Be careful of coax purchases from Home Depot;
> - strip the outer jacket and inspect the braid before buying.
> - Product that I have bought has lousy shielding at low vhf
> - (50 Mhz) and probably will be unsuitable at HF as well.
> - I don't remember the OEM.
> -
> - Regards,
> -
> - Michael
> -
>
> MSG,
>
> Especially when you buy 'Generic' Stuff at a BigBox
> {Discount} Retailer at a Low Price.
>
> * Two Aluminium Braid Shields 60% and 40%
> * Two AL Foil 100% Shields
> * Gas-Injected (Foamed) PE Dielectric
> * Inner Conductor : Solid Copper or Copper-Clad-Steel
>
> Genesis* 1000 Feet Bulk RG-6 Quad Shield Coaxial Cablehttp://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ130139914168
> * Genesis Premium Broadband Cable, Manufactured by Honeywell
>
> -presented by- Blue Jeans Cable
>
> Brand 'BICC'
> 500 Ft. Black RG6 Quad-Shield Coaxial Cable
> Model 92041-45-08 -
> Cable Type : RG6/U
> Impedance Ohms : 75 Ohms
> Nominal O.D. : 0.307 In.
> Wire Gauge/Number of Conductors : 1/18 AWG
> Cable Length : 500 Ft.
> Suitable for LAN, cable, digital video, and direct broadcast
> satellite.
> Sunlight Resistant - Coaxial Cable
>
> CAUTION - The big problem with RG6 Coax Cable and even
> the Quad-Shield type is the Aluminium Braid is not as good
> a Conductor as Copper Braid.
>
> TIP - You may have to run a Heavy Copper Wire along with
> the RG6 Coax Cable to "Bond" your Antenna Ground with
> your House's AC Mains Ground.
- Be Advised - None of the above RG6 Coax Cable
- is 'designated' for Direct Burial.
Generally most RG6 Quad-Shield Coax Cable will work OK*
by Itself for Direct Burial for a period of at least 3~5 Years.
* Excluding Accidental Damage by Man or Attack by Animals.
Extra Protection* for the Buried Coax Cable can be obtained
by using Half-Inch (1/2") Black Polyethylene Drip Water Tubing
{Hose} as an added Layer of Protection for Buried Coax Cable
against damage from Plants, Tree Roots and Animals.
* This Extra Protection is often needed when the Coax Cable
is within a few Inches of the Surface of the Ground or Lays
across Pathways and Walkways.
Note - Black Polyethylene (Poly) Drip Water Tubing {Hose}
is Water-Proof from both the Inside and Outside. :o)
Most Hardware Stores have Black Polyethylene Drip Water Tubing
{Hose} used for Water Distribution for Yard Lawn and Plant Garden
Watering Systems in 100 Foot Lengths; some have it in longer
Lengths and there are also Water-Tight Connectors to join two
pieces if needed. Examples - http://tinyurl.com/yw28yh
http://www.doityourself.com/invt/7861081
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ320063814490
~ RHF
.
> you got to be 'wired' to listen to the radio - iane ~ RHF {pomkia}
> .
> Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antennas Group =>http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
> GoTo =>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
> The SWL Antenna Discussion Group =>http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
> Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna HELP =>http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
> Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna NEWS =>http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
> Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna INFO =>http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
> * * * All Are Welcome : Including ELMERS and 'Want-to-be-Elmers'
> plus plain old "Mister-Know-It-Alls"; and even those Newbees with
> "I Know This Is A Really Dumb Question - But _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "
> .
> Shortwave Radio Listener QSL Reports News & Info Grouphttp://groups.google.com/group/shortwave-listener-qsl-reports
> Read & Post Your Shortwave Listener (SWL) Reception Reports
> SWL-QSL-REPORTS =>http://tinyurl.com/3awlyr
> .
> The Shortwave Listener's Blessing :
> SWL BLESSING =>http://tinyurl.com/s2bjm
> May You Never Tire of Listening to the Radio and Always
> have Strong Signals and Noise Free Reception ~ RHF {ibid}http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/9233
> .
> Tous Sont Bienvenus ! - - - Groupe par Radio
> d'auditeur d'onde courte pour des Antennes de SWLhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
> .
> Alle Sind Willkommen ! - - - Shortwave Radiozuhörer
> Gruppe für SWL Antennenhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
> .
> Tutti Sono Benvenuti ! - - - Gruppo Radiofonico
> dell'ascoltatore di onda corta per le Antenne di SWLhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
> .
> Todos São Bem-vindos ! - - - Grupo de Rádio
> do ouvinte do Shortwave para Antenas de SWLhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
> .
> ¡Todos Son Agradables! - - - Grupo de Radio del oyente
> de la onda corta para las Antenas de SWLhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
BDK
@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, rhf-new...@pacbell.net says...
Why bother with all that? I've used RG6 coax for decades without any
issues. A 1.5 to 1 SWR is nothing to worry about at all.
This is just being anal.
BDK
RHF
> In article <43a532e0-63d5-4ae1-b27a-72085c8bbbf8
- - Practical Implementation Says : Just Do It ! - Use the RG6 Coax
- - Cable -and- enjoy listening to your radios - iane ~ RHF
- - .
- Why bother with all that? I've used RG6 coax for decades without
- any issues. A 1.5 to 1 SWR is nothing to worry about at all.
-
- This is just being anal.
-
- BDK
-
BDK - That I Am, and . . . Retentive Too ! ~ RHF
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_retentive
-butt- Then Again I Did Also Write :
msg
<snip>
>
> Extra Protection* for the Buried Coax Cable can be obtained
> by using Half-Inch (1/2") Black Polyethylene Drip Water Tubing
> {Hose} as an added Layer of Protection for Buried Coax Cable
> against damage from Plants, Tree Roots and Animals.
I have coax running through 1 1/2" PVC buried at 2 feet but
be advised that you must provide a means of draining condensation
or include desiccants or provide dry air flow to avoid water
in your cables. In my case, I periodically blow out the pipe
with compressed air and also have a 1 inch per foot grade to
encourage drainage to one end where the water can then be
extracted (blown out).
Regards,
Michael
RHF
MSG - Good Advise. ~ RHF
.
D Peter Maus
Which was precisely my point.
RHF
- -
- - IMHO - For the vast majority of Shortwave Radio Listeners (SWLs)
- - Practical Implementation Says : Just Do It ! - Use the RG6 Coax
- - Cable -and- enjoy listening to your radios - iane ~ RHF
- - .
- Which was precisely my point.
PDM - A Point Well Taken :o) - ettp ~ RHF
.
David
Belden makes a Direct Burial RG-8X, 7808 I think. Times Microwave also
has LMR-240DB. Good luck buying a couple hundred feet.
dxAce
David
dxAce
David wrote:
But that stuff isn't what dxAce uses!
BDK
@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, rhf-new...@pacbell.net says...
Well, I guess I missed that, I got a phone call when I read it, sorry.
BDK
D Peter Maus
How long is your run?
RHF
- - - http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/coax.html
- - - See #2247. It's what dxAce uses!
- - Check the specs vs Belden 7808 or TM LMR-240
- But that stuff isn't what dxAce uses!
RG-8X {50 Ohm} Coaxial Cable the Better Feed-in-lIne
for Shortwave Radio Listener (SWL) Antennas ?
OK - This Is The "Stuff" That 'DX Ace' Uses ! ~ RHF
Universal-Radio P/N #2247 = RG-8X {Mini-8} Coaxial Cable
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/2247.html
+ Black - Non-Contaminating - Flexible Jacket.
+ Stranded Copper Center Conductor [16 AWG - 19sx29g]
+ Foam Dielectric
+ Braid Bare Copper Outer Conductor 98% Coverage
+ OD : 0.242" {Mini as in Small OD less than a 1/4"}
-$- Price per Foot : 29¢ - That's a Low Price
NOTE - Universal-Radio P/N #2247 RG-8X appears to be
equivalent to Belden 9258 (RG-8X or Mini-8) Coax Cable.
http://www.wehaveparts.com/pages/belden/9258.pdf
Universal-Radio States : RG-8X is our most popular Coaxial
Cable. It is a favorite for Shortwave Receiving Antennas.
READY MADE CABLE ASSEMBLIES :
Universal-Radio P/N #0515 - Pre-Assembled RG-8X Coaxial Cable
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/cable.html
100 Foot Length with PL-259 Plugs on both Ends Price : $29.95*
-Note- Considering the 29¢ per Foot Price you get the Two PL-259
Plugs Installed - Sounds like a Deal to me.
* This 100 Feet of RG-8X Coax Cable is a competitive Price
with 100 Feet of Quad-Shield RG-6 Coax Cable at WalMart
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7811235
for $33 which is 33 Cents per Foot.
MORE - Universal-Radio Coax Cable Info {Links} :
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/coax.html
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/coaxperf.html
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/coaxperf.html#atten
INFO - More Info on RG-8X {Mini} Coax Cable
http://www.bellscb.com/products/accessories/RG-8X_coax.htm
9091 - http://www.therfc.com/coax.htm
RG8X - http://www.davisrf.com/ham1/coax.htm
9258 - http://www.wehaveparts.com/pages/belden_cable.htm
HOW TO - Fit a PL-259 Plug to RG8X Coaxial Cable.
http://tinyurl.com/2w2vj7
eBay - Buying Belden Coax Cable - Beware ! -by- KC9EOA
http://tinyurl.com/329nrt
co ax ialy yours - iane and a short wave good bye ~ RHF {pomkia}
Telamon
David <not...@nowhere.org> wrote:
"I'd give it a try" is meaningless to me in this context because it is
going to work. There is no question that it will work. What is in
question is how well will it work.
Here there would be no harm in "trying" if he already had the coax but
he doesn't. He has to buy the coax and he may be able to save a few
bucks. Then again he may not save any money.
If the transmission line is not properly terminated on both ends then it
will have resonances that may interfere with his reception.
This is not much different than putting regular in a high compression
engine that needs premium gas. The engine will still run OK it's just
that you will not get the full performance that the engine can give you.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Telamon
It's dumb to buy cable or anything else that is not matched to the task
unless there is some kind of over riding factor such as cost.
Mouth breathing might work all the time for RHF but under most
conditions I'll breath through my nose thank you very much.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
RHF
<telamon_spamshi...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
> In article <6daej.352569$kj1.19...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
- It's dumb to buy cable or anything else that is not matched to the
- task unless there is some kind of over riding factor such as cost.
Telamon -per- "Brian" {the original poster}
Subject : RG-6 for HF?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/ac0253ec69e4c434
"I've pretty much decided on RG-6 for a couple
of 150 ft. runs because the stuff's dirt cheap
and I can pick it up at the local Home Depot."
Clearly for Brian - CO$T was an Over-Riding-Factor. ~ RHF
- Mouth breathing might work all the time for RHF but under most
- conditions I'll breath through my nose thank you very much.
-
- --
- Telamon
- Ventura, California
Telamon,
.
Happy New Year 2008 and a . . . Short Wave Goodbye to 2007 !
.
May God {Allah} Bless You and Yours in 2008 - Amen. ~ RHF
.
WRT - 2008 and Voting : Remember "ABbH"
AnyBody but Hillary* in 2008 !
* Stay Out The Clintoons !
.
-PS- Still Breathing - As long as It is Pure Clean Mountain Air !
gulping it down ~ RHF
.
D Peter Maus
In your universe, and mine, yeah, you buy the best, brightest,
matched, optimized, or NFL approved.
Truth is, that in real world operations within the normal parameters
hobbyists achieve, there is likely no detectable difference between the
'correct' choice, and the most economical choice for transmission line
in this application. And given that the OP was concerned about cost, his
choice is a decent one.
And unless the OP is intending to operate his system at the limits of
performance, any losses incurred will not be relevant to his operation.
Would I do it that way? No. Would you do it that way? I'm thinking
not. But we're in a different position to make these decisions. And we
both have the hardware to not only notice the difference in
antenna/transmission line performance, but we operate closer to the
limits than the OP. For you and me, the choice of coax may well make a
detectable difference. In my case, it would also bother me to install a
line that I knew wasn't correct for the application.
There are others here with the same attention to detail. And still
others who will not hear or detect the differences.
You're running RX-340. The minutiae at the antenna can be heard.
It's not the case when the best receiver you've ever encountered is
Sat-800.
dxAce
D Peter Maus wrote:
Amen
Telamon
D Peter Maus <DPete...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Telamon wrote:
> > In article <6daej.352569$kj1....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > D Peter Maus <DPete...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> >> RHF wrote:
> >>> On Dec 30, 9:37 pm, D Peter Maus <DPeterM...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >>>> Brian wrote:
> >>>>> I finally got a house out in the woods on five acres and I'm
> >>>>> going to set up a couple of pretty long wires and my Wellbrook
> >>>>> ALA-1530. I've pretty much decided on RG-6 for a couple of 150
> >>>>> ft. runs because the stuff's dirt cheap and I can pick it up at
> >>>>> the local Home Depot. Is the impedance mismatch here going to
> >>>>> be negligible, or should I just bite the bullet and go with
> >>>>> RG-8 or a similar 50 ohm coax?
>>>>>>
> >>>>> -Brian
> >>> - Alone, your receiver won't care. I doubt that the Wellbrook would,
> >>> - either.
> >>> -
> >>> As a complex, however, you're going to have not one mismatch, -
> >>> but - two. One at the output of the Wellbrook loop, and one at -
> >>> the input - of - the antenna interface. This may result in
> >>> standing waves on the - transmission line which, in turn may
> >>> result in irregularities in - performance.
> >>> -
> >>> - With a reasonably well designed receiver, you'll likely not -
Well, yes performance is a critical parameter but I would not frame the
discussion around a high performance radio. The radio I own is not the
issue as ANY table top radio will be adversely affected in reception
performance. The performance issue that will affect ANY radio is due to
a recombination of forward and reflected waves that run the gamut of
reinforcement to cancelation. Where reinforcement or cancelation of
incoming signals will occur will depend on several factors and as a
consequence not easy to calculate. You may not ever hear a signal on
some frequency because that is where the cancelation occurs. The
cancelation has to happen somewhere in the frequency band. If you never
listen to that spot or spots then no problem but if it happens where you
want listen then tough luck.
The general rule in a broad band system is to have components matched in
order to prevent these complex results of significant reflections.
I'll state again that if you already own the coax to try it, especially
if you only have interest in certain frequencies or have another radio
and antenna to check propagation. If it works where you want to listen
then that's just fine but buy the wrong coax? I would not recommend that.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
D Peter Maus
Not every receiver will detect such cancellations at this operating
level, and with this magnitude of mismatch. Noise floor, location and
ambient noise will render some antenna losses irrelevant in practical
listening, and depening on frequency.
If you're not working at the limits of performance, small mismatches
in a receiving transmission line are trivial.
We're not talking about military grade monitoring of picowatt
signals, here.
>
> The general rule in a broad band system is to have components matched in
> order to prevent these complex results of significant reflections.
>
> I'll state again that if you already own the coax to try it, especially
> if you only have interest in certain frequencies or have another radio
> and antenna to check propagation. If it works where you want to listen
> then that's just fine but buy the wrong coax? I would not recommend that.
>
Sometimes, the economics ARE the issue.
Telamon
This is not about scale. The signal can be very large and go to zero at
some frequencies. You are familiar with the Bose noise canceling
headphones? Same principle applies here.
> > The general rule in a broad band system is to have components matched in
> > order to prevent these complex results of significant reflections.
> >
> > I'll state again that if you already own the coax to try it, especially
> > if you only have interest in certain frequencies or have another radio
> > and antenna to check propagation. If it works where you want to listen
> > then that's just fine but buy the wrong coax? I would not recommend that.
> >
> Sometimes, the economics ARE the issue.
How much money can he save buying 300 feet of the 75 ohm coax over the
50 ohm? Maybe $30.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
RHF
wrote:
> In article <fvhfj.104369$MJ6.27...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,> > Telamon wrote:
> > > In article <vCcfj.103707$MJ6.91...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > >>> In article <6daej.352569$kj1.19...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
- 75 ohm coax over the 50 ohm? Maybe $30.
-
- --
- Telamon
- Ventura, California
Telamon,
More than just Price -wrt- RG6 Quad-Shield Coax Cable
over RG8 Coax Cable :
# 1 - Availability - You can find it just about anywhere.
# 2 - Practicallity - For 99.73% of the casual
Shortwave Radio Listeners (SWLs) intended
needs : It is as good as RG8 performance.
# 3 - Pricethe Price is generally Lower than RG8 Coax
Cable plus # 1 and # 2
~ RHF
.
D Peter Maus
It IS about scale. And no, it's not the same principle. Noise
cancelling headphones seek to remove all the noise. So, the antiwave is
of an amplitude approximately equal to the incoming noise. The losses in
a receiving antenna transmission line with a small mismatch don't
produce anywhere near that level of cancellation. A small mismatch
produces a small reflection. A small reflection only produces a partial
cancellation. A partial cancellation produces a lower incoming signal at
the partial cancellation frequency... the difference being recovered by
the sensitivity of the receiver and it's low noise floor. Unless the
hobbyist is operating at the limits of performance, that difference will
may never be noticed.
>
>>> The general rule in a broad band system is to have components matched in
>>> order to prevent these complex results of significant reflections.
>>>
>>> I'll state again that if you already own the coax to try it, especially
>>> if you only have interest in certain frequencies or have another radio
>>> and antenna to check propagation. If it works where you want to listen
>>> then that's just fine but buy the wrong coax? I would not recommend that.
>>>
>> Sometimes, the economics ARE the issue.
>
> How much money can he save buying 300 feet of the 75 ohm coax over the
> 50 ohm? Maybe $30.
It IS his budget, after all. And for some, $30 can be a big
difference.
As I said, that level of investment may not matter to many of the
operators in the hobby. You and I wouldn't worry about it. But there are
some who have other priorities, and $30 is enough of a deal that it
warrants consideration.
The bottom line is that he's just getting into the hobby, again.
And the way the Wellbrook is designed, his mismatched cable run is on
the length between the loop and the preamp. Reflections in that line are
going to be small anyway. Cancellations are going to be partial at best,
and few in number, pursuant to length vs frequency. His choices will get
him up and running. Let him discover for himself how significant the
mismatch is.
Likely, he'll never detect it as you or I would.
>
Telamon
<Nlqfj.373561$kj1.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
< Snip >
Have you calculated this?
Have you considered that the coax will not behave as a transmission line
but will resonate as part of the antenna system is it is not terminated
at its characteristic impedance on both ends?
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
D Peter Maus
Yes, I have considered that. Again, any resonances based on the small
mismatch at the levels involved will be small.
Telamon
<UgFfj.377605$kj1.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
OK, you keep on believing that.
Remember you have a mismatch on both ends of the cable.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
D Peter Maus
Yes, that's true. I believe I was the one who first pointed that out
to the OP.
>
mi...@sushi.com
> I finally got a house out in the woods on five acres and I'm going to set up
> a couple of pretty long wires and my Wellbrook ALA-1530. I've pretty much
> decided on RG-6 for a couple of 150 ft. runs because the stuff's dirt cheap
> and I can pick it up at the local Home Depot. Is the impedance mismatch here
> going to be negligible, or should I just bite the bullet and go with RG-8 or
> a similar 50 ohm coax?
>
> -Brian
While I'm a big fan of Wellbrook gear, I don't like the use of a BNC
for anything designed to be used outdoors. Connectors used outdoors
should be threaded. I don't recall if the 1530 has any means to
weatherproof the BNC. If it doesn't, you might want to think about
making one of your own. Since Wellbrook pots their electronics, they
may consider than to be enough protection against moisture wicking
into the box. Then maybe a bit of sealant around the connector is all
you need.
RHF
> On Dec 30 2007, 7:45 pm, "Brian" <imaginaryfri...@wtf.com> wrote:
>
> > I finally got a house out in the woods on five acres and I'm going to set up
> > a couple of pretty long wires and my Wellbrook ALA-1530. I've pretty much
> > decided on RG-6 for a couple of 150 ft. runs because the stuff's dirt cheap
> > and I can pick it up at the local Home Depot. Is the impedance mismatch here
> > going to be negligible, or should I just bite the bullet and go with RG-8 or
> > a similar 50 ohm coax?
>
> > -Brian
- While I'm a big fan of Wellbrook gear, I don't like the use
- of a BNC for anything designed to be used outdoors.
- Connectors used outdoors should be threaded. I don't
- recall if the 1530 has any means to weatherproof the BNC.
- If it doesn't, you might want to think about making one of
- your own. Since Wellbrook pots their electronics, they may
- consider than to be enough protection against moisture
- wicking into the box. Then maybe a bit of sealant around
- the connector is all you need.
-
M...Sushi,
For Weather-Proofing Your Radio & Antenna Outside Connections
- Try Coax-Seal
Coax-Seal will usually work as a good means of Weather-Proofing
most Radio and Antenna Plugs-&-Jacks and other Connections.
Coax-Seal works with PL-259 Plugs; SO-239 Jacks; F-Connectors;
BNC Connectors; and many many more . . .
The "Coax-Seal" WebSite
COAX-SEAL - http://www.coaxseal.com/
Manufactured -by- Universal Electronics, Inc.
How To Use Coax-Seal
http://www.coaxseal.com/How%20to%20Use%20Coax-Seal.htm
Where Can I Get Coax-Seal ?
http://www.coaxseal.com/Where%20can%20I%20get%20Coax-Seal.htm
http://www.davisrf.com/coaxseal.php
http://www.rfparts.com/coax_seal.html
http://www.cheapham.com/coax-wire.html
http://hamradio.com/cgi-bin/uncgi/ase?MAN=Universal
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamacc/1194.html
http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?product_id=21-1140&catalog_name=MCMProducts
sealing the deal against weather with something as simple as . . .
'coax-seal' - iane ~ RHF {pomkia}