Side-by-Side: 3 Popular Receivers
Jack Thimson
I was wondering whether anyone else who has owned the following
receivers, or indeed similar receivers, would like to comment on the
results I have obtained at my listening post in Scotland. I own 3 main
receivers, a Drake R8E, an Icom R75 and a Yaesu FRG-100. The Drake is
in the same condition as it was when I bought it about 6 years ago,
the R75 has the optional DSP module and the FRG-100, which I bought
used, has KIWA filters measuring 6KHz and 4 Khz, (according to the
previous owner).
I decided to compare the receivers for SW broadcast DXing in
side-by-side tests using 2 different antenna set-ups; one a 25 metre
random wire with balun, the other a 40 meter wire fed into an ATU. The
reason for this is that I have always found it interesting reading
other people's claims about their receivers, when in fact, as far as I
can see, the differences between my receivers are very small in terms
of actual receive performance, far less than one would imagine when
looking at star rating in books and magazines.
In my tests I found very little difference in terms of ability to dig
out a signal. I was listening to a variety of broadcasts, from faint
signals in the clear to signals swamped in the bands. Now, I am not
the best DXer in the world, but I found the R75, the FRG-100 and the
R8E to be very similar. There were very few occasions when I could
render intelligible a signal on one that I couldn't dig out on the
other, and no radio performed consistently better: sometimes the R8E
did best, sometimes the Icom , and yes, even the FRG-100 came out tops
on some occasions. I've had the Drake for 6 years, the Icom for 2 and
the modified FRG-100 for about 3 months now, so I think I know how to
operate all 3 radios, and I've been listening for about 25 years in
all.
I might be missing something here, but there just ain't that much
difference.
Jack
Diverd4777
The big deal about the R-75 is it's so CHEAP compared to the others;
- even with the Kiwa mods..
Dan
In article <872e415d.02112...@posting.google.com>,
Al
news:872e415d.02112...@posting.google.com...
> Hi all
> In my tests I found very little difference in terms of ability to dig
> out a signal.
Hi Jack,
I agree with you that today's receivers have very little difference between
them in terms of specifications and performance. But there is more than
specs and performance, there are also features. Features are going to be the
things that YOU like or dislike and I believe it is the features that sell
the radio today.
The Icom (I have an IC-745) has a small size and therefore small knobs and
spacing between them. If you like portability and have small fingers, and
can see the small type, then this may sell you; if not then you will hate
your Icom and look for reasons to criticize it even though it has great
specifications.
The AOR is probably one of the best receivers today, in terms of specs. But
when it comes to tuning features, some absolutely hated it. They took their
high performance AOR and traded it in for something with slightly less
performance but easier to tune. It was the feature that turned them off.
Some have replaced the tuning shaft and encoder on their Drake R8B twice
now, and have ordered spare shafts for the future. Why do they tolerate
this? They claim the ergonomics of the Drake is the best ever.
In terms of performance there is probably little you can do to hurt yourself
in today's receiver market (I'm assuming you're comparing apples to apples)
but you can find your receiver disgusting in all respects if the features
are wrong. My advice (which you did not ask for) is find a receiver that has
the features that you want, the receiver that makes you smile when you sit
by it and look at it, and get that one. Because as you see above, if you get
the one with the best specs only, you may not like it.
Al
KA5JGV
Eric F. Richards
things in life, I didn't appreciate how good it was until it was gone.
The Frog's weakness is the synthesizer chuffing when you tune. The
R-75 doesn't have this at all. However, as I've beaten to death on
many occasions, the '75 overloads. I've only had small chances to
play with an R-8B so I can't comment on the R-8 series from personal
experience.
My "main" receiver right now is the ICOM 8500. To beat it will
require significant money.
For going on the cheap, if you aren't near an MW blowtorch or have a
massive antenna, the '75's not bad. It is a shame, though that you
have to modify the thing out-of-the-box to get its "features" to work.
Eric
diver...@aol.com (Diverd4777) wrote:
--
Eric F. Richards, efr...@dim.com
"Nature abhors a vacuum tube." -- J. R. Pierce, Bell Labs, c. 1940
phil :p
> I own 3 main receivers, a Drake R8E, an Icom R75 and a Yaesu FRG-100.
nice radios!
> I have always found it interesting reading
> other people's claims about their receivers, when in fact, as far as I
> can see, the differences between my receivers are very small in terms
> of actual receive performance, far less than one would imagine when
> looking at star rating in books and magazines.
exactly!
> I might be missing something here, but there just ain't that much
> difference.
oh no! sounds like blasphemy! ;)
phil :)
you're correct.
> Some have replaced the tuning shaft and encoder on their Drake R8B twice
> now, and have ordered spare shafts for the future. Why do they tolerate
> this? They claim the ergonomics of the Drake is the best ever.
all radios have flaws. ICOM's AM section is bad... but fixable for $50. i
bought one because the R75's price-competitors lack RF-gain, PBT, or RS232
control... some are missing keypads or an FM mode, are oversized, or have QC
problems. even some units costing twice as much have poor displays/buttons
or MW images. some lack 1 Hz tuning steps and DSP noise reduction/notch.
> the receiver that makes you smile when you sit by it and look at it
i agree... it would be boring if there were only one model or brand of
radio. i've had a lot of fun altering and programming my R75.
phil :)
in all fairness Eric that same antenna overloaded an R8B by 40 dB... as
someone on the R75 yahoo group said, your antenna is too long and acting as
a beverage... one aimed directly at a 50 kW blowtorch.
> It is a shame, though that you have to modify the thing
> out-of-the-box to get its "features" to work.
i agree; however, if you can solder a good deal becomes a great deal.
Eric F. Richards
Aww fer chrissakes, phil, do you have to pop up any time someone says
that the R-75 is not better than sex?
"Stimulus-response... stimulus-response... don't you ever THINK?" --
Gary Larson
(For someone who actually gives a rat-fsck... read the whole thread at
Message-ID: <tlrndugnqq23ob2lo...@4ax.com>. I don't
need to repeat it again. I don't WANT to repeat it again. All I will
say is that the R-75 has an overload weakness that, for my purposes,
make it a complete and total waste of electronics. 'Nuff said.)
Andy Bown
> Jack, thanks for your post..
> The big deal about the R-75 is it's so CHEAP compared to the others;
> - even with the Kiwa mods..
> Dan
>
>
It might be cheap compared to the Drake, but it in many parts of the
world it's more expensive than the FRG-100, even when the FRoG has the
Kiwa filters added. I was thinking of upgrading from my FRoG, but
Jack's post and a few e-mails I've received lately from people who own
both the FRG-100 and one or more premium receivers have led me to
believe that it isn't worth the money at this time. A number of them
said I was unlikely to hear anything more on an AR7030+, an R75 or an
R8 series receiver than I already can on my FRoG.
Cheers
Andy
Telamon
jackt...@netscape.net (Jack Thimson) wrote:
What you are missing are the bloated threads that have expounded upon
all manor of nuance between the radios and I donąt know what books and
magazines you are reading but this yearąs Passport rates the radios
fairly close. The main differences between the radios are the features
they have. The Yaesu has the least between them and Drake has the most
of the desirable ones.
The radios have similar sensitivity so you are not going to hear a
station on one and not at all on the others. Being able to identify a
poorly copied station in order to fill out log books is not what
everyone wants to do with their radios. I listen to broadcast stations
and I like to scan the bands to see what is on at any one time. When I
find something I like I tweak the radio for best sound. In order to make
me happy the radio needs these extra features to get weak stations or
stronger ones in poor conditions to the point where I will listen to
them for awhile. This I can do best with the Drake because of the
features or controls it has to tailor the reception of the station so it
will sound its best. The Yaesu will not be able to do the same. That
does not mean the Yaesu will not receive it to the point that I could
identify the station. If your purpose is to chase DX the Yaesu will do
the job.
Think of it more like buying a new car. All three cars will get you from
point A to point B. The Drake has the big V8 motor, automatic
transmission, upgraded stereo and electric controls for door locks and
windows. The Yaesu has a V6 motor, manual transmission, basic stereo and
no electric controls. The R75 has the same V6 and a manual transmission
stuck in reverse. The stereo only gets SSB and the gas pedal controls
the volume and speed of the car. You can get around in the R75 but itąs
kind of dangerous unless you take it to Philąs garage and get it
modified.
--
Telamon
starman
That "some" was *one* person. That's why I commented that he must be an
incredibly unlucky R8B owner.
*****
Al wrote:
snips
>
> Some have replaced the tuning shaft and encoder on their Drake R8B twice
> now, and have ordered spare shafts for the future.
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Diverd4777
(Andy Bown) writes:
Hi Andy
yeah, if it works, keep it, the FRG does look interesting
& there will Always be a slightly better set on the horizon...
phil :)
> on an AR7030+, an R75 or an R8 series receiver than I already
> can on my FRoG.
likely true Andy... if you want to hear more buy an antenna book.
phil :)
> you take it to Phil零 garage and get it modified.
LMAO... great post btw Telamon
Jack Thimson
Which of these receivers do you have now, or have you owned in the
past, other than a Drake? I have all 3 and made use of all available
features, including the synch on the DRAKE, PBT etc. I used the DSP
unit on the R75, especially for ECSS work. The Yaesu doesn't have PBT
but it does have CW offset, which also proved useful for jumping away
fom interference in ECSS mode.
I had them side-by-side and although my post may have been a bit
misleading (or rather not explicit enough), the comparison wasn't just
to see whether I could ID a station or not on each radio, but to see
which could offer the most listenable signal. Sometimes, despite all
the Drake's niceties, the signal was better and more listenable on the
FRoG or the Icom. I fed each radio through an external speaker and
through headphones, as I think the R8 sounds better than the others if
using only the in-built speaker, but all sound better with an external
speaker. In this way, the Icom and FRoG sounded every bit as good as
the Drake, each one performing better on different signals. The
FRG-100 is excellent in ECSS mode, as is the R75, although I haven't
done Phil's mod to increase the volume, which might help. As I say, I
was only testing on SW broadcasts, not utility signals, and maybe I'll
do that next time to see what the differences are there.
Really I was just posting as I find that good RF performance is more
important than gadgets when it comes to listening pleasure. I don't
yet have this year's Passport, but I know the FRG-100 with a keypad
was rated as 4 stars, (fell to 3 3/4 last year due to scarcity of
keypad), whereas the the Icom was 4 1/4 and the Drake 5. I think I
heard the rating for the R75 may have risen this year. I know the WRTH
rated the R8 series less favourbly than Passport, and that's maybe due
to testing location. Here in Scotland I think the other two radios
perform just as well as the Drake and from a performance viewpoint, 5
stars for one and 4 for the other isn't justified. Add a keypad to the
FRG-100 and
it's up there. Attach a speaker to the R75 and it is, too.
Also, people saying "You get much more radio with brand X, or model Y
etc." are often kidding themselves. My three are in the same league
from a SW broadcasting viewpoint and I wouldn't sell any of them. I
have all 3 and feel qualified to state this. I don't agree that the
Drake can make signals more listenable as a general rule, but I do
agree that it feels nice and is an impressive machine. It might have
leather seats and walnut veneer, but it's no faster or better tuned
than the other two. They are just different Malts with different
flavours. ;-)
Cheers
Jack
Kenneth
> they have. The Yaesu has the least between them and Drake has the most
> of the desirable ones.
tunning steps,Up to 60MHZ tunning range,Twin PBT,2 pre-amps.The Drake
NO include DSP,no 1khz tunning steps [R8B tunning in 10 or 100 hz
steps increments but in page 4 of the white paper review read "In
practice the freq can be anywhere of by as much as 20HZ],R8B coverage
only up to 30MHZ,for optional coverage you need a optional convertor
[$220.00]but the only pre-amp that the unit have don't work above
30MHZ[from R8B passport review].
All reviews had found the Icom more sensitive.In MW after removing the
att the sensitivity is [.07]Better than the Drake in MW and not
cross-modulation problems..
Yes "The Drake has the big old V8 motor, automatic
> transmission, downgraded mono [Need an external speaker] The R75 has the same V6 and a manual transmission
> stuck in reverse. No the R-75 is 4 cilinders.Yes manual transmission for dxing like the experts drivers do.The stereo only gets SSB Yes better SSB than the Drake [see all reports and reviews]
> the volume and speed of the car. You can get around in the R75 but it零
> kind of dangerous unless you take it to Phil零 garage and get it
> modified.
Yes as pro drivers we love to upgrade and mod our motors and
take risk of being in danger.Remember we are in competition with more
expensive cars with bigger motors with the support of big companies
with,for example one complete page advertizings but we have all the
tools [mods]for keep in race with the Pro "top guns" .For that we need
more than the "make everything right" sponsor cliche.
N8KDV
Kenneth wrote:
The race can be won and lost in the pits ;-)
Steve
Holland, MI
Drake R7, R8(2) and R8B
DeWayne
"Kenneth" <k1...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ecd15c2c.02112...@posting.google.com...
Isn't it sad that Icom doesn't know how to do all these mods. The R75 should
come with a warning, 'Don't expect to listen to SW programs til you fix it.'
N8KDV
Kenneth wrote:
Bottom line is, you've modified it to the point that it is no longer an ICOM. I guess someone so inclined could take a Drake and modify the piss out of it too, if they were so inclined. However, that's not necessary now is it?
As for the 1 Hz tuning on the R75, Passport 2003 states on page 142 that 'Display misreads up to 20 Hz, somewhat negating the precise 1 Hz tuning'.
Andy Bown
Yeah, true. I must admit, if I was more confident with my soldering
skills I'd be very tempted to get the R75 with Kiwa mods. I don't live
in the US so I'd have to do the synch and AGC mods myself. If Kiwa
ever get back into action I might one day find someone locally willing
to risk trashing my radio while doing the upgrade for me :-)
For now I'll make do with the FRoG, which'll do just fine.
Pete KE9OA
mechanical encoder with an optical encoder. Grayhill has one for around 30
dollars. All you would need to do would be to pull out the pullup resisters
for the mechanical encoder, connect the optical encoder to 5V, and you
should be all set. About the only mistake you might make is to reverse the
A and B channels of the encoder. If that happens, the receiver would tune
in the opposite direction than expected.
Pete
Andy Bown
The R75 has a couple of things (at least) which my FRoG doesn't have, apart
from DSP. They are PBT and RF gain. Which of these features do you find most
useful for broadcast band DXing, or for making programmes more listenable?
Although I listen to the odd ham, and some air traffic chat, I'm mainly into
broadcasts, as I'm interested in listening to different viewpoints, news,
etc. I'd appreciate your views on this one. Although I said earlier that I'd
stick with my FRoG, it's getting near Christmas so I might just buy it a
companion.
Cheers
Andy
"phil :)" <just...@yahooREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
news:uu86896...@corp.supernews.com...
Diverd4777
<ab...@emirates.net.ae> writes:
>
>Hi Phil
>
>The R75 has a couple of things (at least) which my FRoG doesn't have, apart
>from DSP. They are PBT and RF gain. Which of these features do you find most
>useful for broadcast band DXing, or for making programmes more listenable?
>Although I listen to the odd ham, and some air traffic chat, I'm mainly into
>broadcasts, as I'm interested in listening to different viewpoints, news,
>etc. I'd appreciate your views on this one. Although I said earlier that I'd
>stick with my FRoG, it's getting near Christmas so I might just buy it a
>companion.
>
>Cheers
>
>Andy
>
RF Gain works best for me;
DeWayne
"Diverd4777" <diver...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021127154927...@mb-mg.aol.com...
There are a few rigs I've never owned because they don't have RF gain, SAT
800, FRG 100, FRG 8800... It's one of the most useful features to have IMO.
DeWayne
phil :)
> skills I'd be very tempted to get the R75 with Kiwa mods.
you may wish to read my "soldering course" PDF on the R75 yahoo group.
phil :)
> that the R-75 is not better than sex?
LOL... you cannot blame your R75 or your friend's R8B for not working with
your antenna from hell :p
phil :)
> The FRG-100 is excellent in ECSS mode, as is the R75, although I
> haven't done Phil's mod to increase the volume, which might help.
after the mod ECSS volume is usually pretty comparable to that of AM. i say
"pretty" because it is fixed unlike the Motorola AM chip which has an AGC.
> Also, people saying "You get much more radio with brand X, or model Y
> etc." are often kidding themselves. My three are in the same league
> from a SW broadcasting viewpoint and I wouldn't sell any of them.
what you say makes a lot of sense... thanks for your commentary.
phil :)
i agree DeWayne... ICOM is losing a lot of business too!
DeWayne
"phil :)" <just...@yahooREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
> > Isn't it sad that Icom doesn't know how to do all these mods.
>
> i agree DeWayne... ICOM is losing a lot of business too!
For sure because many listeners don't give a hoot about a ute but AM is
where it's at for them!
DeWayne
>
>
>
Brian
other day (Monday) and I watched 3 r-75s go out the door and a couple of
8500s....Pretty good I think......
"phil :)" <just...@yahooREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
news:uuag5m4...@corp.supernews.com...
Bill Dean
>Bottom line is, you've modified it to the point that it is no longer an ICOM. I guess someone so inclined could take a Drake and modify the piss out of it too, if they were so inclined. However, that's not necessary now is it?
>
>As for the 1 Hz tuning on the R75, Passport 2003 states on page 142 that 'Display misreads up to 20 Hz, somewhat negating the precise 1 Hz tuning'.
>
>Steve
>Holland, MI
>
>Drake R7, R8(2) and R8B
Hi Steve-
The mods aren't all that difficult or extreme. Execution would be
tricky for someone without SMD soldering experience but adding adding
a cap or two, some resistors, or a simple perf-board circuit is hardly
what you make it out to be.
As for your comment about displayed readings, I don't see what in the
world that has to do with precise tuning. The reading may well be off
but when I do my fine tuning it's done by ear. PBT adjustments aren't
indicated at all on the display but it's certainly an effective tool
for digging a station out.
Regards,
Bill Dean
Eric F. Richards
> Not sure how much business Icom is loosing..I was at AES in Cleveland the
> other day (Monday) and I watched 3 r-75s go out the door and a couple of
> 8500s....Pretty good I think......
Well, 8500s actually work. R-75s are what you tie to the end of your
wire as a counterweight when you want to throw the wire over a tree.
--
73, Eric F. Richards, KB0YDN, efr...@dim.com
"A few old diehards still blazoned 'Spark Forever!' on their QSL cards..."
- from "200 Meters & Down", copyright 1936, ARRL
Lee Richardson
actually does provide gain, does it really increase usable audio, or does it
just increase noise?
N8KDV
Bill Dean wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:37:13 -0500, N8KDV <n8...@iserv.net> wrote:
>
> >Bottom line is, you've modified it to the point that it is no longer an ICOM. I guess someone so inclined could take a Drake and modify the piss out of it too, if they were so inclined. However, that's not necessary now is it?
> >
> >As for the 1 Hz tuning on the R75, Passport 2003 states on page 142 that 'Display misreads up to 20 Hz, somewhat negating the precise 1 Hz tuning'.
> >
> >Steve
> >Holland, MI
> >
> >Drake R7, R8(2) and R8B
>
> Hi Steve-
>
> The mods aren't all that difficult or extreme. Execution would be
> tricky for someone without SMD soldering experience but adding adding
> a cap or two, some resistors, or a simple perf-board circuit is hardly
> what you make it out to be.
Oh really?
>
>
> As for your comment
Pay frickin attention, it was not my comment, it was from Passport.
> about displayed readings, I don't see what in the
> world that has to do with precise tuning.
Please re-read the comment Passport had again, you obviously don't comprehend what was said.
> The reading may well be off
> but when I do my fine tuning it's done by ear.
Gee, imagine that!
> PBT adjustments aren't
> indicated at all on the display but it's certainly an effective tool
> for digging a station out.
It certainly is, but one is not changing the frequency that is being tuned by using passband tuning.
DXing since 1957
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From: N8KDV n8...@iserv.net
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:53:05 -0500
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Bill Dean wrote:
Oh really?
>
>
> As for your comment
Gee, imagine that!
Steve
Holland, MI
>>
But, the passband tuning adjustments are clearly marked on the R8B.
Steve, maybe he needs a comprehension 101 course?
Les
phil :)
> longer an ICOM.
maybe true but many on this ng have modified their radios or even built
them.
> As for the 1 Hz tuning on the R75, Passport 2003 states on page 142 that
> 'Display misreads up to 20 Hz, somewhat negating the precise 1 Hz tuning'.
any radio can have display inaccuracies and manufacturers have internal ways
to adjust for such. this does not negate the usefulness of fine tuning
steps. we argued about all this cr@p months ago. forget about convincing Ken
to sell his R75... remember he was an *R8B* owner before he ever owned an
R75. he's had them side by side longer than either of us and knows their
capabilities for *his* usage. i doubt he was happy with the stock R75 either
but the radio reviewed in passport and the one we're using sound worlds
apart on AM. who has the better receiver you or me? who knows. who cares.
you have a better antenna so you're going to hear more with either radio.
enjoy your Drakes and have a happy thanksgiving.
Harvey Miller
DeWayne wrote:
> Isn't it sad that Icom doesn't know how to do all these mods. The R75 should
> come with a warning, 'Don't expect to listen to SW programs til you fix it.'
>
>
Hi DeWayne:
I used my stock R75 for 6 months for SW program listening. I mainly
used AM mode in preference to SSB. It was much better than the portables I
had been using previously. True, I like the R75 more with the Kiwa mods,
but I didnšt think the stock is quite as bad you seem to indicate.
Regards
from Ottawa
Harvey
--
phil :)
IMO DSP NR is nice for decreasing noise while tuning AM. DSP ANF helps
during SSB tuning. with the twin-PBT you can simulate any bandwidth from
~400 Hz to ~2400 Hz on SSB... this can be handy for the crowded ham bands.
PBT can be very effective at eliminating noise especially when mixed with
the RF gain... remember that filters work best when fed weak signals. RF
gain is also needed for when the AGC is turned off.
i REALLY like *my* ICOM but the stock radio is not especially good on AM. i
have done the AM-AGC, Sync-AM, and my fidelity mod to the radio... it's
exactly the way i want it now. all radios have flaws... i've fixed mine.
something to consider: if you enjoy BCB (aka 530-1710 kHz) and do not have a
good BCB antenna then IMO forget buying an ICOM for Christmas and purchase a
better antenna! on BCB a directional (loop) antenna is critical to
reception. if you have the land either build or purchase a K9AY... if not
get a Quantum QX... you could also consider a Quantum Phaser with two
longwires. i love BCB: there is so much news, talk radio, music, etc. if you
want an indoor antenna i HIGHLY recommend the Quantum QX. an ICOM is nice
but you will get more catches with your FRoG attached to a good antenna.
compared to a longwire these antennas are phenomenal.
http://www.dx-tools.com/QX.htm
http://www.dx-tools.com/Phaser.htm
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/loop/index.html
regards,
phil :)
N8KDV
"phil :)" wrote:
> > Bottom line is, you've modified it to the point that it is no
> > longer an ICOM.
>
> maybe true but many on this ng have modified their radios or even built
> them.
There are modifications and then there is an almost total re-engineering of the
radio, there IS a difference.
Bill Dean
>
>
>Bill Dean wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:37:13 -0500, N8KDV <n8...@iserv.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Bottom line is, you've modified it to the point that it is no longer an ICOM. I guess someone so inclined could take a Drake and modify the piss out of it too, if they were so inclined. However, that's not necessary now is it?
>> >
>> >As for the 1 Hz tuning on the R75, Passport 2003 states on page 142 that 'Display misreads up to 20 Hz, somewhat negating the precise 1 Hz tuning'.
>> >
>> >Steve
>> >Holland, MI
>> >
>> >Drake R7, R8(2) and R8B
>>
>> Hi Steve-
>>
>> The mods aren't all that difficult or extreme. Execution would be
>> tricky for someone without SMD soldering experience but adding adding
>> a cap or two, some resistors, or a simple perf-board circuit is hardly
>> what you make it out to be.
>
>Oh really?
Yeah, really. Trimming or adding values for passive components is
pretty trivial. I may be a new R-75 owner but I've seen plenty of mods
that are far more invasive to other consumer goods than those
proposed. Your original comment was a bit over the top in my opinion.
I think many folks reading this newsgroup will have both the requisite
understanding and skills required. Most of us are adults and act
accordingly.
>>
>> As for your comment
>
>Pay frickin attention, it was not my comment, it was from Passport.
That was clear Steve. But you did raise the point and I guess I
misread your post, I assumed you were making some offhand bashing of
the R-75. I suppose I could have misinterpreted your intent as I
thought you intended to be helpful.
>
>> about displayed readings, I don't see what in the
>> world that has to do with precise tuning.
>
>Please re-read the comment Passport had again, you obviously don't comprehend what was said.
Whose comment? By my reckoning that would be that big gray area I
meant to address. I think my point is clear but perhaps you don't
understand the difference between precision and accuracy.
>> The reading may well be off
>> but when I do my fine tuning it's done by ear.
>
>Gee, imagine that!
Wow. I guess there's a glimmer of hope....
>> PBT adjustments aren't
>> indicated at all on the display but it's certainly an effective tool
>> for digging a station out.
>
>It certainly is, but one is not changing the frequency that is being tuned by using passband tuning.
Care to follow up on your comment in context?
Look- I don't care to get into some pecker-point competition with you.
I picked up a new R-75 with the UT-106 DSP option included for less
than $500 under the current rebate program. I've listened to an R8b
under very limited circumstances (no direct comparison with anything
else) but for my money a stock R-75 would be a very hard deal to beat
given the delta. With the AGC mod and S-AM mods to the R-75 the
performance difference is even more fine based on listening with the
respective internal speaker, the upper hand going to the R8b under
limited circumstances but not at all by an overwhelming margin
considering the cost. With a good external transducer the R-75 is a
fine performer on broadcast and offers the UTE listener a great deal,
something I've grown enamored with where the favor shifts to the ICOM.
Regards,
Bill Dean
Bill Dean
wrote:
>Steve, maybe he needs a comprehension 101 course?
>
>Les
Yes Les, I suppose I do need such if I'm to worship at the throne of
the R8b. I think I'll pass- on the class that is.
Regards,
Bill Dean
N8KDV
Bill Dean wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:53:05 -0500, N8KDV <n8...@iserv.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Bill Dean wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:37:13 -0500, N8KDV <n8...@iserv.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Bottom line is, you've modified it to the point that it is no longer an ICOM. I guess someone so inclined could take a Drake and modify the piss out of it too, if they were so inclined. However, that's not necessary now is it?
> >> >
> >> >As for the 1 Hz tuning on the R75, Passport 2003 states on page 142 that 'Display misreads up to 20 Hz, somewhat negating the precise 1 Hz tuning'.
> >> >
> >> >Steve
> >> >Holland, MI
> >> >
> >> >Drake R7, R8(2) and R8B
> >>
> >> Hi Steve-
> >>
> >> The mods aren't all that difficult or extreme. Execution would be
> >> tricky for someone without SMD soldering experience but adding adding
> >> a cap or two, some resistors, or a simple perf-board circuit is hardly
> >> what you make it out to be.
> >
> >Oh really?
>
> Yeah, really. Trimming or adding values for passive components is
> pretty trivial. I may be a new R-75 owner but I've seen plenty of mods
> that are far more invasive to other consumer goods than those
> proposed. Your original comment was a bit over the top in my opinion.
Over the top? Pray tell, in what way?
>
> I think many folks reading this newsgroup will have both the requisite
> understanding and skills required. Most of us are adults and act
> accordingly.
>
> >>
> >> As for your comment
> >
> >Pay frickin attention, it was not my comment, it was from Passport.
>
> That was clear Steve. But you did raise the point and I guess I
> misread your post, I assumed you were making some offhand bashing of
> the R-75. I suppose I could have misinterpreted your intent as I
> thought you intended to be helpful.
>
> >
> >> about displayed readings, I don't see what in the
> >> world that has to do with precise tuning.
> >
> >Please re-read the comment Passport had again, you obviously don't comprehend what was said.
>
> Whose comment? By my reckoning that would be that big gray area I
> meant to address. I think my point is clear but perhaps you don't
> understand the difference between precision and accuracy.
You don't really understand what Passport or myself were saying do you?
>
>
> >> The reading may well be off
> >> but when I do my fine tuning it's done by ear.
> >
> >Gee, imagine that!
>
> Wow. I guess there's a glimmer of hope....
>
> >> PBT adjustments aren't
> >> indicated at all on the display but it's certainly an effective tool
> >> for digging a station out.
> >
> >It certainly is, but one is not changing the frequency that is being tuned by using passband tuning.
>
> Care to follow up on your comment in context?
What? You don't understand what passband tuning is? You brought up the PBT topic, I didn't.
>
>
> Look- I don't care to get into some pecker-point competition with you.
> I picked up a new R-75 with the UT-106 DSP option included for less
> than $500 under the current rebate program. I've listened to an R8b
> under very limited circumstances (no direct comparison with anything
> else) but for my money a stock R-75 would be a very hard deal to beat
> given the delta. With the AGC mod and S-AM mods to the R-75 the
> performance difference is even more fine based on listening with the
> respective internal speaker, the upper hand going to the R8b under
> limited circumstances but not at all by an overwhelming margin
> considering the cost. With a good external transducer
Can you say speaker? I know you can!
Bill Dean
<all snipped>
Hi Steve-
I don't think we're going to get much accomplished by this exchange. I
guess I'm not up to the challenge- I'll pass on this one.
Hope you do better around the dinner table tomorrow. Have a great
Thanksgiving.
Regards,
Bill Dean
Ken Wilson
phil :) <just...@yahooREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
> something to consider: if you enjoy BCB (aka 530-1710 kHz) and do not have
a
> good BCB antenna then IMO forget buying an ICOM for Christmas and purchase
a
> better antenna! on BCB a directional (loop) antenna is critical to
> reception. if you have the land either build or purchase a K9AY... if not
> get a Quantum QX... you could also consider a Quantum Phaser with two
> longwires. i love BCB: there is so much news, talk radio, music, etc. if
you
> want an indoor antenna i HIGHLY recommend the Quantum QX. an ICOM is nice
> but you will get more catches with your FRoG attached to a good antenna.
> compared to a longwire these antennas are phenomenal.
>
That is the best comment/advise... I have read on this list for some time.
The QX loop works great,as does the phaser with 2 like wires at 90 degrees.
I still want a Century FRoG to go with the rest. I can find the time to
listen to & enjoy several RX's .
73 Ken
N8KDV
Bill Dean wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:18:44 -0500, N8KDV <n8...@iserv.net> wrote:
>
> <all snipped>
>
> Hi Steve-
>
> I don't think we're going to get much accomplished by this exchange. I
> guess I'm not up to the challenge- I'll pass on this one.
Good idea, rest up and come back with your comprehension
skills in better shape than they were today.
Michael Moore
> Think of it more like buying a new car. All three cars will get you from
> point A to point B. The Drake has the big V8 motor, automatic
> transmission, upgraded stereo and electric controls for door locks and
> windows.
Yes, but the dummies died in the crash test!
<ducks, runs>
--
M2
Michael Moore
> As for the 1 Hz tuning on the R75, Passport 2003 states on page 142 that 'Display misreads up to 20 Hz, somewhat negating the precise 1 Hz tuning'.
No, no, no. The calibration is not off, rather the frequency displayed
is consistently incorrect -- probably because Icom could not be bothered
spending the time to set it correctly. This is true for a lot of radios
out of the box. In any case, the display error is easily corrected by
turning a trimmer inside the radio. No big deal.
--
M2
Telamon
jackt...@netscape.net (Jack Thimson) wrote:
> Hi Telamon
>
> Which of these receivers do you have now, or have you owned in the
> past, other than a Drake? I have all 3 and made use of all available
> features, including the synch on the DRAKE, PBT etc. I used the DSP
> unit on the R75, especially for ECSS work. The Yaesu doesn't have PBT
> but it does have CW offset, which also proved useful for jumping away
> fom interference in ECSS mode.
Only the Drake have I owned out of the three but Iąve read allot about
the R75 in this group. My knowledge of the FRG-100 only comes from
reviews Iąve read. Since you own all three I can only defer to you where
we disagree. Under these circumstances we can still disagree due to my
innate stubbornness.
Iąve read a number people in this group praise the R75 DSP unitąs
ability to quiet background noise in SSB mode, which allows weak signals
to really stand out.
I donąt think the FRG CW offset is of much help though. Isnąt the CW
offset pretty much the same thing as turning the tuning knob? I do this
with portable radios that donąt have the pass band-tuning feature.
> I had them side-by-side and although my post may have been a bit
> misleading (or rather not explicit enough), the comparison wasn't just
> to see whether I could ID a station or not on each radio, but to see
> which could offer the most listenable signal. Sometimes, despite all
> the Drake's niceties, the signal was better and more listenable on the
> FRoG or the Icom. I fed each radio through an external speaker and
> through headphones, as I think the R8 sounds better than the others if
> using only the in-built speaker, but all sound better with an external
> speaker. In this way, the Icom and FRoG sounded every bit as good as
> the Drake, each one performing better on different signals. The
> FRG-100 is excellent in ECSS mode, as is the R75, although I haven't
> done Phil's mod to increase the volume, which might help. As I say, I
> was only testing on SW broadcasts, not utility signals, and maybe I'll
> do that next time to see what the differences are there.
I find it surprising that the FRG-100 could sound better but I canąt
argue with you since you have all three radios. The reception situation
has many variables that together with the dozens of engineering
compromises that go into any radio design Iąm sure it can happen but
would you say that was true in general?
The speakers in the radios I own are all far from the best. All of the
radios sound better with an external speaker. Some people advocate
limited range voice enhanced headphones but I donąt. I have purposely
purchased (say that three times fast) radios that have several filters
and pass band tuning to tailor the sound instead of having the bookshelf
speakers or headphones be a hard stop on the range of the audio.
SW is not high fidelity with a range about a few hundred hertz to about
6 KHz or so and with the main differentiator between the radios
eliminated (the speaker) I would expect them to sound about the same.
The other thing of significance would be the band pass filter used. With
the 6 KHz filter used and the pass band at 12 oąclock you would have 3
KHz of audio bandwidth. Turn the control to either side and you can then
have up to 6 KHz. Since the FRG-100 does not have pass band tuning you
would need a 12 KHz filter to get 6 KHz of audio bandwidth.
If I owned an R75 I would do the modifications on philąs site.
> Really I was just posting as I find that good RF performance is more
> important than gadgets when it comes to listening pleasure. I don't
> yet have this year's Passport, but I know the FRG-100 with a keypad
> was rated as 4 stars, (fell to 3 3/4 last year due to scarcity of
> keypad), whereas the the Icom was 4 1/4 and the Drake 5. I think I
> heard the rating for the R75 may have risen this year. I know the WRTH
> rated the R8 series less favourbly than Passport, and that's maybe due
> to testing location. Here in Scotland I think the other two radios
> perform just as well as the Drake and from a performance viewpoint, 5
> stars for one and 4 for the other isn't justified. Add a keypad to the
> FRG-100 and it's up there. Attach a speaker to the R75 and it is, too.
Well yeah RF performance has to come first but I think classifying the
features the other radios have as gadgets is a bit extreme. Depending
on reception conditions they can make the difference between my staying
and listening to a station or not.
It seems to me a person of your taste would enjoy the raw RF performance
of a Palstar. http://www.palstarinc.com/palmain.htm
The stars are just an executive summary so donąt read too much into
them. The important part is the verbiage that describes the pros and
cons of the radio.
> Also, people saying "You get much more radio with brand X, or model Y
> etc." are often kidding themselves. My three are in the same league
> from a SW broadcasting viewpoint and I wouldn't sell any of them. I
> have all 3 and feel qualified to state this. I don't agree that the
> Drake can make signals more listenable as a general rule, but I do
> agree that it feels nice and is an impressive machine. It might have
> leather seats and walnut veneer, but it's no faster or better tuned
> than the other two. They are just different Malts with different
> flavours. ;-)
Well you need to get your hands on an R8B with side band selectable
sync. You will definitely see a difference with that.
I have several radios with different features sets and I donąt want to
sell any of them either.
Speaking of malts itąs time for one.
--
Telamon
Andy Bown
Excellent post! Thanks very much for the advice and the links. I can
see I've got some experimenting to do.
Cheers
Andy
ps I looked at your soldering course and I'll get practising there,
too.
Jack Thimson
Regarding the CW offset, it allows you to jump away from the signal by
up to 700 Hz without losing zero-beat. Useful for ECSS tuning, but
admittedly not as god as real PBT. Still helps to reduce interference
at times, though. If it were just tuning away, I couldn't maintain
zero beat.
> I don靖 think the FRG CW offset is of much help though. Isn靖 the CW
> offset pretty much the same thing as turning the tuning knob? I do this
> with portable radios that don靖 have the pass band-tuning feature.
>
> Speaking of malts it零 time for one.
It certainly is, and it looks like I'll have to try the R8B malt at
some point, as that selectable synch sounds appetising.
Cheers
Jack
Jack Thimson
Eric F. Richards
>
> Good idea, rest up and come back with your comprehension
> skills in better shape than they were today.
>
You know, it takes a real idiot to not be able to tell when he's been
insulted...
Stuff a sock in it, would you? You are as bad as phil.
<*plonk*>
phil :)
hey, thanks Telamon. Rado and John created the nice mods: the ones that fix
the sync detector. Pete made the MW attenuator bypass.
> The stars are just an executive summary so don靖 read
> too much into them.
i agree although Passport did a good job IMO with the stars.
> Well you need to get your hands on an R8B with side band selectable
> sync. You will definitely see a difference with that.
have you tried detuning (or PBT usage) with the 2.3 kHz filter on top of
using the sideband selectable sync?
> I have several radios with different features sets and I
> don靖 want to sell any of them either.
did you keep that RX-340? mind sharing your thoughts on the unit?
N8KDV
phil :)
"weak"... 2 stars. btw, i pulled and "Eric" yesterday... during thanksgiving
dinner i overloaded my plate... and then tried to blame the whole thing on
ICOM :p.
N8KDV
"Eric F. Richards" wrote:
> N8KDV <n8...@iserv.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Good idea, rest up and come back with your comprehension
> > skills in better shape than they were today.
> >
>
> You know, it takes a real idiot to not be able to tell when he's been
> insulted...
It takes an even bigger idiot to respond to a post where the responder
was not the one being insulted. BTW, yes, I was insulting the individual
who the comment was directed to, with
good reason.
>
>
> Stuff a sock in it, would you?
You stuff a sock in it, asshole.
> You are as bad as phil.
Now you've really insulted me!
Eric F. Richards
> Eric, i am disappointed and can only describe your latest tantrum as
> "weak"... 2 stars.
"Tantrum?" Sonny boy, you don't know from "tantrum."
Although I should formally apologise for including you and n8kkk in
the same sentence. At least you do contribute.
> btw, i pulled and "Eric" yesterday... during thanksgiving
> dinner i overloaded my plate... and then tried to blame the whole thing on
> ICOM :p.
At least you do contribute... sometimes.
I don't blame ICOM for the world's problems -- I'm perfectly happy
with my 8500. I do, however blame ICOM for the third-rate R-75 that
is less selective than a rat shack crystal radio kit.
And I do blame *YOU* for defending the indefensible. Get a real
radio, and notice the difference. And if you can't afford a real
radio, get a Drake.
--
Eric F. Richards efr...@dim.com
"American rules football combine the two worst aspects of American life:
random violence and endless committee meetings." -- Richards McCollum on r.r.s
N8KDV
"Eric F. Richards" wrote:
> "phil :\)" <just...@yahooREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
>
> > Eric, i am disappointed and can only describe your latest tantrum as
> > "weak"... 2 stars.
>
> "Tantrum?" Sonny boy, you don't know from "tantrum."
>
> Although I should formally apologise for including you and n8kkk in
> the same sentence.
Hey pal, fuck you and your mother, trying to associate me with the KKK...
phil :)
>
> Now you've really insulted me!
LOL!
Eric F. Richards
Oh, is poor widdwe steevie mad? Who's gonna change his diapers?
N8KDV
"Eric F. Richards" wrote:
If I did need my diapers changed you'd be the likely candidate as it
seems as though you've got shit all over you already.
DXing since 1957
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From: N8KDV n8...@iserv.net
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:39:34 -0500
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See ya!
"Eric F. Richards" wrote:
>>
Kinda my thoughts too Steve......eric seems to think he is some sort of legend
in his own mind!
Les
DXing since 1957
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:30:59 -0700
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"phil :\)" <just...@yahooREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
>>
What a friggin' idiot.............part of the process of the dumbing down of
America.
Les
Eric F. Richards
> Kinda my thoughts too Steve......eric seems to think he is some sort of legend
> in his own mind!
>
> Les
No, less, just not a poseur like you.
And unlike you, less, I admit when I misstate something or just plain
screw up on this newsgroup. A lesser person like you can't handle
that.
DXing since 1957
From: Eric F. Richards efr...@dim.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
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>>
eric, who isn't worth answering. Let me tell you something
weasel.......poseur??? Hardly, I have over fifteen published articles, am well
known in the shortwave/radio community.
I have many articles relating to the history of the better known tube
shortwave/communications receivers that have been published. Of course, since
your reading skills are limited to comic books, you wouldn't be aware of that.
And, I might add, well respected. I don't have to try and cover any
shortcomings that you think I might have.
I'll have nothing further to say about an obviously uneducated weasel.
Misstate??? You were so blinded by that thread, that the obvious passed by your
minuscule brain matter and went unnoticed.
Les
phil :)
> is less selective than a rat shack crystal radio kit.
what selectivity problems have you experienced with your R75? are you sure
these aren't overload related? change antennas. read what i am writing with
an open mind: filters work best when fed weak signals. Motorola's AM chip
has an AGC but you should *not* rely on this and flood the chip with noise.
turn off the P.AMP's, kick in the ATT, and decrease the RF gain when
possible.
IMO the stock R75 filters are pretty good... especially the 2.4 kHz crystal
at the 9 MHz IF. FWIW my filter mod allows you to add a 15-element Murata to
the unit without any internal soldering. the filter's specs are -6 dB @ 3
kHz and -80 dB @ 9 kHz. are there any filters in the R8500 with better
than -80 dB ultimate rejection? the Murata is $19 (price for two including
shipping).
> n8kkk
low... c'mon Eric, was thanksgiving really *that* bad?
> Get a real radio, and notice the difference. And if you
> can't afford a real radio, get a Drake.
when did this become a matter of affording? i purchased the radio i wanted.
i did not buy this radio for you :p. btw, why do you not consider the R75 or
the Drake "real" radios? the R8500 was rated lower than both in Passport.
DXing since 1957
From: Eric F. Richards efr...@dim.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:42:24 -0700
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ll...@aol.commcenter (DXing since 1957) wrote:
eric,
It is obvious that the lifeguard had his back turned when you slipped into the
gene pool. Can you spell comprehension?
I thought not.
Plonk!
Les
DXing since 1957
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From: "phil :\)" just...@yahooREMOVETHIS.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 20:40:18 -0500
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> n8kkk
>>
Phil,
eric lacks reaading skills as well as comprehension. The R8500 is a friggin'
joke.
It is well known, that eric slipped in the back door of the gene pool when the
lifeguard had his back turned.
Les
DXing since 1957
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:42:24 -0700
Organization: What organization?
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ll...@aol.commcenter (DXing since 1957) wrote:
>>
eric,
I hate to enter into a battle of wits against an unarmed man. So, just take
your blanket and comic books and go home.
Les
phil :)
lol. howdy Les... i believe i've seen your name online associated with the
R390A and Hammarlund. what is the sound like on those units? are you doing
more BCB or more shortwave at this time?
phil :)
Eric F. Richards
> > I do, however blame ICOM for the third-rate R-75 that
> > is less selective than a rat shack crystal radio kit.
>
> what selectivity problems have you experienced with your R75? are you sure
> these aren't overload related?
You know full well what I'm talking about... yes, it is front-end
overload. But saying, "suffers more front end overload than a ...
crystal radio kit" just doesn't have the right ring to it, y'know?
> change antennas.
Absolutely not. I'm chasing *weak* LW beacons. A 1000 ft antenna is
not a big deal, and YOU would know that, too, if you had read the
comments from MW and LW DXers who contributed to the threads on this
subject.
> read what i am writing with
> an open mind: filters work best when fed weak signals. Motorola's AM chip
> has an AGC but you should *not* rely on this and flood the chip with noise.
That chip shouldn't even *see* the signals from 670 kHz when I'm
looking at 190 kHz. But somewhere in the front end, something is
overloaded and ends up generating IM products up and down the
spectrum.
> turn off the P.AMP's,
Never on. Never. The preamps in the R-75 are IMD product generators.
I might use ONE of the preamps if I set up a loop out at the site.
> kick in the ATT,
Mandatory when using that radio... anywhere.
> and decrease the RF gain when
> possible.
I do that.
Not that it matters. Right now the '75 is in my "least used radio"
position at home and the 8500 will accompany me to the site, if/when I
get some time, as in if/when we ship our product.
>
> IMO the stock R75 filters are pretty good...
So? I'm not dealing with adjacent channel rejection (despite my
smartass comment), but as you should recall since it HAS been beat to
death here, I'm dealing with IM products. Most likely the source was
from within the receiver, since even a Drake R8B did better. However,
it didn't do nearly as well as the ICOM 8500.
> especially the 2.4 kHz crystal
> at the 9 MHz IF. FWIW my filter mod allows you to add a 15-element Murata to
> the unit without any internal soldering. the filter's specs are -6 dB @ 3
> kHz and -80 dB @ 9 kHz. are there any filters in the R8500 with better
> than -80 dB ultimate rejection? the Murata is $19 (price for two including
> shipping).
(see above). As far as the ultimate rejection of the 8500... I
honestly can't answer that because *I* haven't tested it. But your
Murata filter with -80dB rejection doesn't do squat if there's a near
continuous hash of internally generated signals within the receiver up
and down the spectrum, with them much closer than 9 kHz. Frankly, I
don't feel like ripping out the '75 to prove a point, but if I get
pushed to do so, I'll make a recording available for you. You won't
be pleased.
>
> > n8kkk
>
> low... c'mon Eric, was thanksgiving really *that* bad?
Thanksgiving was great. Working on Friday, after hours, after a full
day was poor. Listening to one of my coworker's odessies about trying
to find an emergency room with staff on hand to treat her baby, then
spending 4 hours in an empty lobby, didn't endear me to YOUR
profession, either.
> > Get a real radio, and notice the difference. And if you
> > can't afford a real radio, get a Drake.
>
> when did this become a matter of affording? i purchased the radio i wanted.
> i did not buy this radio for you :p. btw, why do you not consider the R75 or
> the Drake "real" radios? the R8500 was rated lower than both in Passport.
The drake comment, like the earlier one, was aimed at widdle stevie,
who frankly just got on my nerves a little heavy. You know, where I
work, the humor is fast and very vicious, but the rule is, if you
can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen -- non-combatants are
respected, too. If widdle stevie can't stand being the subject of
adolescent, rough humor, then he should not dish out adolescent
statements. Same goes for less as well. But less and widdle stevie
are notorious with their own comments... do a google news search.
Drake made -- past tense -- some great radios. I'd give your left
testicle for an R-7A, and have repeatedly considered R8 series radios,
and passed them by. The days of the "4" twins are long gone, and
Drake holds their customers in the same contempt as ICOM holds theirs.
(When I bought my 8500s I didn't know what kind of company ICOM was.
I'm much better connected in the community now. The R-75 was,
frankly, an ill-considered and ultimately bad decision on my part.
Shame on me.)
As for Passport, well, I'm not listening to programs ultimately,
although the 8500 is a great program listening radio because of its
rock-stable oscillator for ECSS and wide bandwidths for AM. Sync-AM
is not a be-all for me, so doesn't weigh in on my "personal" ratings
scale. I read Passport for the raw data, which while not presented in
a dry tabular form, is available and unbiased.
Now, if my R-392 went low enough in frequency coverage, I'd take that
out to do my listening, hernias be damned. However, what I have that
works are my R-8500s, and for a radio considered to be "mediocre" by
so many, I should be able to find others that do the job.
Have a good one, phil, but fer gods sake, PLEASE try out a different
radio allegedly in the same class as the '75 so you have some idea
just how FAR the '75 falls short. It's not all about sensitivity, and
adjacent channel rejection is meaninless when your whole front-end is
saturated with garbage. Try a Drake. An AOR. A different ICOM. A
Yaesu. A Collins.
--
Eric F. Richards, efr...@dim.com
"The first rule about macros is: Don't use them unless you have to.
Almost every macro demonstrates a flaw in the programming language,
in the program, or in the programmer." -- Stroustrup
Eric F. Richards
> > The R8500 is a friggin' joke.
>
> lol.
Just remember, phil, if the 8500 is a "friggin' joke" and it
outperforms the 75 in every respect where the capabilities overlap,
what's the '75?
> howdy Les... i believe i've seen your name online associated with the
> R390A and Hammarlund. what is the sound like on those units? are you doing
> more BCB or more shortwave at this time?
>
> phil :)
>
Aww, forget less, they're still trying to figure out rotary phones
where he lives. Indoor plumbing isn't expected for another 20 years.
I've *been* to gulfport. Friggin' shitball of a city. Think of
Brownsville TX meets Gary IN but throw in a filthy beach (watch out
for the hypos in the sand).
--
Eric F. Richards
efr...@dim.com
"The weird part is that I can feel productive even when I'm doomed."
- Dilbert
7 Time C-USA Defending Champion
>R390A and Hammarlund.
I'll butt in here Phil. ;-) Les in 'The Man' when it comes to the Hammars. :-)
> what is the sound like on those units?
On the Hammarlunds I can tell you that the sound is exquisite. I'm just
speaking for the HQ129X and the HQ140X. I'd love for you Phil to pick up one
of the Hammarlund HQ models and hear what you think about them. You'd like
very much. ;-)
Back out................
WA8007SWL
HQ140X/ HQ129X/ JRC NRD-515 / DX398 / Ross Model 2311/ RCA Victor Strato-World/
DX-399/ DX394/ DX402/ DX100/ Kloss Model One/ Rhapsody Multi-Band
DeWayne
DeWayne
"phil :)" <just...@yahooREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
news:uufvr61...@corp.supernews.com...
DXing since 1957
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From: "phil :\)" just...@yahooREMOVETHIS.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 22:15:36 -0500Message-ID: <uugb811...@corp.supernews.com>
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phil :)
>>
More MW than SW at this time Phil. The Quantum QX Pro Loop is spectaculat!
Les
Ll...@aol.com
> "phil :\)" <just...@yahooREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
>
> > > The R8500 is a friggin' joke.
> >
> > lol.
>
> Just remember, phil, if the 8500 is a "friggin' joke" and it
> outperforms the 75 in every respect where the capabilities overlap,
> what's the '75?
>
> > howdy Les... i believe i've seen your name online associated with the
> > R390A and Hammarlund. what is the sound like on those units? are you doing
> > more BCB or more shortwave at this time?
> >
> > phil :)
> >
>
> Aww, forget less, they're still trying to figure out rotary phones
> where he lives. Indoor plumbing isn't expected for another 20 years.
>
> I've *been* to gulfport. Friggin' shitball of a city. Think of
> Brownsville TX meets Gary IN but throw in a filthy beach (watch out
> for the hypos in the sand).
There haven't been any needles since you left the area.
Filthy beach?? Not here, the 14 casinos wouldn't have located here if
it was/is like you describe.
You were probably stationed here at Keesler A.F.B. or the Seabee base
and got the crap beat out of you real regular and are still pissed off
about it.
Les
Ll...@aol.com
Well, the SP-600 has 3.5 watts of 6V6 tube audio and is very pleasant,
the filters are LC (inductance capacitance coupled transfomers) and
have very good audio characteristics. The better HQ series for the
most part had excellent audio. Some of the later stuff, HQ-180 and the
less expensive HQ's typically had 6AQ5 audio, not bad, but not as good
as the earlier receivers.
The R-390A has .05 milliwatt of audio power? <grinning> It is of
communications quality. But, if you pick the audio off the diode load
terminals and run it through a nice receeiver/amplifier, it is capable
of some of the better audio around. Both the SP-600 and R-390 series
have 600 ohm output. The best way to convert that to say 4 or 8 ohm is
with a Hammond transformer available through AES in Tempe, AZ. rated
for 12 watts, essentially flat from 30 hz to 20 khz.
Les
N8KDV
"Eric F. Richards" wrote:
Baby talk from an obviously unformed childish mind. I'm not to surprised.
>
> who frankly just got on my nerves a little heavy.
Having a breakdown? If my comment to another individual gets you so upset you'd
best be looking for some pro help.
> You know, where I
> work,
And where might that be? A day care center? You must have picked up that baby talk
routine somewhere. Quite frankly I've never heard anyone talk like that where I
work.
> the humor is fast and very vicious, but the rule is, if you
> can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen -- non-combatants are
> respected, too. If widdle stevie can't stand being the subject of
> adolescent,
Adolescent, yep that pretty much describes you Eric.
> rough humor, then he should not dish out adolescent
> statements. Same goes for less as well. But less and widdle stevie
> are notorious with their own comments... do a google news search.
>
> Drake made -- past tense -- some great radios. I'd give your left
> testicle for an R-7A, and have repeatedly considered R8 series radios,
> and passed them by.
And then you went with an 8500? That seems very, very strange.
> The days of the "4" twins are long gone, and
> Drake holds their customers in the same contempt as ICOM holds theirs.
Contempt? Never felt that way in all these years. And to place Drake in the same
category as ICOM is darn near blasphemy.
Kenneth
> "phil :\)" <just...@yahooREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
>
> > in all fairness Eric that same antenna overloaded an R8B by 40 dB... as
> > someone on the R75 yahoo group said, your antenna is too long and acting as
> > a beverage... one aimed directly at a 50 kW blowtorch.
> > i agree; however, if you can solder a good deal becomes a great deal.
> How does it compare [8500] with say a dedicated HF set (IC-R75 / NRD 535 etc)?
>"It isn't bad, but it isn't as good as the two you site. The biggest
two problems in it [8500] are that its filters are too wide and that
its
dynamic range is poor".That's you own words.You admit that the 8500
"it not as good [for HF] as the two in the question[including the
stock R-75]An you are talking about an stock R-75.The 8500 is not
considered a HF receiver it is a very good commercialgrade wide band
receiver.For serious SW and MW only dxing it lack Sync det,fixed IF
filtering,DSP,ANF,fm filters are too wide for serious fm dxing. Not
as good as should be for a receiver in its price range.Lack a variety
of filter selections and advance noise reduction only have a simple
NB.The R-75 have DSP,working sync det[after a $5.00 easy mod]Audio
fidelity with improved high freq range [with [4] 47K resistors[$1.50]
without taking out the main board, Aut notch filter,and you can add a
murata filter 3.0khz for $7.00 and not soldering needed.About the R-75
ant overload that you are complaining for 6 month in all groups, you
can have a damage in the front end [send to the next Icom service
center] or read the Joe Carr antenna book about how to install an ant
in a receiver [not an easy task] and how to use tunners, phasers and
preselectors and other tools for a very [excessive] long random wire
ant directly at a 50 kW "blowtorch."
N8KDV
N8KDV
"Eric F. Richards" wrote:
One thing to remember is that the only difference between the R7 and the R7A is
that the factory supplied as standard equipment the NB7A, the 500 Hz filter, and
jumpered a selectivity position to provide 9 kHz selectivity. Other than that
(beyond a new nameplate) there is no other difference between the R7A and the R7.
Steve
Holland, MI
Drake R7, R8(2) and R8B
> and have repeatedly considered R8 series radios,
Eric F. Richards
Hah! "My turkey claimed it came with drumsticks, but it didn't. With
the addition of toothpics to hold drumsticks on, it's perfect, I tell
ya, perfect!!"
I guess I prefer turn-key turkeys, myself... :-)
phil :)
i am doing the same Les... MW has much to offer. thanks for the radio info!
phil :)
phil :)
lol. i did the gravy mod, then ran the turkey through a low-pass filter, and
finally mixed it with some stuffing for a single-up-conversion meal.
Eric F. Richards
> Eric F. Richards <efr...@dim.com> wrote in message news:<05j8uu859305i661c...@4ax.com>...
> > "phil :\)" <just...@yahooREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
> >
> > > in all fairness Eric that same antenna overloaded an R8B by 40 dB... as
> > > someone on the R75 yahoo group said, your antenna is too long and acting as
> > > a beverage... one aimed directly at a 50 kW blowtorch.
>
>
> > > i agree; however, if you can solder a good deal becomes a great deal.
>
>
> > How does it compare [8500] with say a dedicated HF set (IC-R75 / NRD 535 etc)?
>
>
>
> >"It isn't bad, but it isn't as good as the two you site. The biggest
> two problems in it [8500] are that its filters are too wide and that
> its
> dynamic range is poor".That's you own words.You admit that the 8500
> "it not as good [for HF] as the two in the question[including the
> stock R-75]An you are talking about an stock R-75.The 8500 is not
> considered a HF receiver it is a very good commercialgrade wide band
> receiver.
Yeah, well, I view my receivers with clear eyes. I worship neither
them nor their manufacturer. What a concept!
> For serious SW and MW only dxing it lack Sync det,
Gawd -- better tell all those R390 users that their rigs are useless.
Throw them all away, guys, Kenneth has spoken. Better yet, send them
to me and I'll dispose of them.
> fixed IF
> filtering,
Eh, whut?
> DSP,
I use an outboard audio DSP. The '75 is an AUDIO DSP, remember?
> ANF,fm filters are too wide for serious fm dxing.
Filters are its weak point. We've covered that.
> Not
> as good as should be for a receiver in its price range.Lack a variety
> of filter selections and advance noise reduction only have a simple
> NB.
The former is a judgement call, and one many people agree with. I
neither agree nor disagree; a dozen receivers under my belt doesn't
make me an expert. And book knowledge, while useful, is still
second-hand experience.
> The R-75 have DSP,working sync det[after a $5.00 easy mod]Audio
> fidelity with improved high freq range [with [4] 47K resistors[$1.50]
> without taking out the main board, Aut notch filter,and you can add a
> murata filter 3.0khz for $7.00 and not soldering needed.About the R-75
> ant overload that you are complaining for 6 month in all groups, you
> can have a damage in the front end [send to the next Icom service
> center] or read the Joe Carr antenna book about how to install an ant
> in a receiver [not an easy task] and how to use tunners, phasers and
> preselectors and other tools for a very [excessive] long random wire
> ant directly at a 50 kW "blowtorch."
I ran this through babelfish and still got nothing. Any ideas?
Something about excessively long antennas? Better read this month's
Monitoring Times wrt antenna length for LW dxing.
--
Eric F. Richards, efr...@dim.com
"The most likely way for the world to be destroyed, most
experts agree, is by accident. That's where we come in;
we're computer professionals. We cause accidents."
- Nathaniel S. Borenstein
Arthur Pozner
R-7 was drifting due to humidity affecting parts of the VFO (think it
must be capacitors).TR-7 which I ran for days also had same problem and
drifted up to about 1.5 KHz,but only in the summer.
N8KDV
operating temperature they both operate just fine.
The only other solution was/is to purchase the RV75 VFO, which of course
was built in to the R4245 receiver.
phil :)
> > filtering,
>
> Eh, whut?
probably a reference to no PBT in AM mode.
> I use an outboard audio DSP. The '75 is an AUDIO DSP, remember?
nothing wrong with an audio DSP. IMO until DSP prices fall analog will
remain the better way to provide IF filtration and demodulation.
> Filters are its weak point. We've covered that.
you should replace them.
> Something about excessively long antennas? Better read this month's
> Monitoring Times wrt antenna length for LW dxing.
we are talking about your antenna. why is it overloading an R8B by 40 dB?
even if the R8500 can handle the overload is this an ideal antenna for LW?
what about an indoor active loop? or outdoor phased wires? or outdoor active
whip? we need to hear from some LW experts!
you busted on the R8B but i suspect Les is getting more LW catches with his
R8B and Quantum QX Pro... in the comfort of his own home. loops reduce noise
and Q-multiplication tightens the input bandwidth.
btw, i would try another radio if i was having problems. i currently listen
mostly to BCB... my radio has 5 mods and i am running an indoor amplified
loop... the combination is working GREAT.
phil :)
DXing since 1957
Path:
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From: "phil :\)" just...@yahooREMOVETHIS.com
<<SNIPPED>>
you busted on the R8B but i suspect Les is getting more LW catches with his
R8B and Quantum QX Pro... in the comfort of his own home. loops reduce noise
and Q-multiplication tightens the input bandwidth.
btw, i would try another radio if i was having problems. i currently listen
mostly to BCB... my radio has 5 mods and i am running an indoor amplified
loop... the combination is working GREAT.
phil :)
>>
Exactly correct on both counts Phil!
There are antennas and there are loops, the Quantum QX Pro Loop is the "best" I
have ever used, and I've used 'em all.
MW TA's are commonplace into here winter evenings.
Les
Les
On the Gulf of Mexico
Drake R8B
Hammarlund SP-600JX-14
R-390A/URR
Quantum QX Pro Loop
Alpha Delta Sloper
Alpha Delta DXEE
131 ft. Inverted L
85 ft. Random Wire
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Remove obvious to reply
phil :)
:D
Michael Moore
>>>fixed IF
>>>filtering,
>>
>>Eh, whut?
>
>
> probably a reference to no PBT in AM mode.
>
>
>>I use an outboard audio DSP. The '75 is an AUDIO DSP, remember?
>
>
> nothing wrong with an audio DSP. IMO until DSP prices fall analog will
> remain the better way to provide IF filtration and demodulation.
>
>
>>Filters are its weak point. We've covered that.
>
>
> you should replace them.
There's a catch. The R8500 uses the same filter for AM as it does for
N-FM. Replacing the filter with good 6 kHz one with a tight skirt will
degrade FM sound. Also, there is no extra slot for installing a narrow
AM filter -- though, one can replace the "2.4" (yeah, right) with a 4kHZ
filter and take the hit on SSB.
--
Michael Moore
phil :)
phil :)
starman
How much does the RV-75 improve the stability? Is it a true synthesized
VFO?
*****
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Telamon
"phil :\)" <just...@yahooREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
<snip>
> > Well you need to get your hands on an R8B with side band selectable
> > sync. You will definitely see a difference with that.
>
> have you tried detuning (or PBT usage) with the 2.3 kHz filter on top of
> using the sideband selectable sync?
With a strong station on the next channel the first thing I do is turn
the PBT knob in the other direction. Engaging the sync helps to block
the other station. If that is not enough then I use a feature the R8B
has which is the side band selectable sync. I re-center the PBT knob,
turn on the sync and then select the side band away from the
interference. At that point interference is usually gone but if some is
still there I then go back to the PBT knob and tweak it a small step at
a time until is gone. I usually don't have to resort to a smaller filter
but that is an additional option.
> > I have several radios with different features sets and I
> > donąt want to sell any of them either.
>
> did you keep that RX-340? mind sharing your thoughts on the unit?
I donąt want to write a review on the unit but I will make a few
comments.
First off if you are thinking about buying it understand it needs a full
size no compromise antenna, which unfortunately I donąt have living in
town so my plan is to amplify an outdoor loop antenna.
The radio has some quirks like always turning the noise blanker on at
power on.
My unit came from the factory a little łconfused˛ as the auxiliary
control knob acted erratically but a reset fixed that.
The only real beef I have is the sync tends to loose lock on signal
fades. This is annoying depending on the circumstances. If you are using
both side bands then when lock is lost on a deep fade you still donąt
hear much distortion because it locks back up rapidly. You just hear a
soft popping sound when it goes in and out of lock. But if you selected
a side band to get away from a heterodyne then you will hear that pop in
and out again. The lost lock problem is AGC related with the rapid
fading and there is a programmable AGC mode but no amount of fiddling
with it seems to help. The radio will sync on a very weak station.
Another thing about the sync is that the radio needs to be tuned very
close to zero beat for it to lock. If Iąm having trouble getting it to
lock I switch to either ISB or CW1 to zero beat the radio. Examples of
stations that I have to do this for are RFPI and WBCQ.
There is no meaningful signal level meter indication in ISB mode. The
need moves with the modulation level like you would expect but hardly
moves at all compared to other modes.
The AGC mode does not affect the signal level meter movement.
Off hand the only feature missing on this radio that I can think of is a
clock.
I donąt have a data terminal to hook it up to anymore but it looks like
an ideal radio to connect to one with its range of fast digital filters.
This is the best sounding radio I have heard with filters up to 16 KHz
when a station is in the clear. SSB is equally impressive with great
fidelity. ISB mode is phenomenal where you can hear both side bands at
the same time on stereo headphones. I donąt miss anything now tuning
through the bands. When using a speaker you can select which side band
to listen to similar to synchronous AM mode.
I saw a trailer for a movie called triple X where there is this scene
with a huge pile of weapons on the floor in front of a classic looking
car (a GTO I think) and the guy says łI want all of this put in there.˛
The RX-340 is like that car with its long list of features.
On another note is phil short for philosopher or doctor of philosophy?
--
Telamon
starman
Is Ten-Tec trying to improve the sync' on the RX-340?
*****
Telamon wrote:
snips
> >
> > did you keep that RX-340? mind sharing your thoughts on the unit?
>
> The only real beef I have is the sync tends to loose lock on signal
> fades. This is annoying depending on the circumstances. If you are using
> both side bands then when lock is lost on a deep fade you still donšt
> hear much distortion because it locks back up rapidly. You just hear a
> soft popping sound when it goes in and out of lock. But if you selected
> a side band to get away from a heterodyne then you will hear that pop in
> and out again. The lost lock problem is AGC related with the rapid
> fading and there is a programmable AGC mode but no amount of fiddling
> with it seems to help. The radio will sync on a very weak station.
N8KDV
Eric F. Richards
> > Filters are its weak point. We've covered that.
>
> you should replace them.
>
Except that they aren't sufficiently bad to drive me nuts, and the
filters are difficult to get to. Were I to replace them I'd replace
them with the same rated filters but with better shape factors.
> > Something about excessively long antennas? Better read this month's
> > Monitoring Times wrt antenna length for LW dxing.
>
> we are talking about your antenna. why is it overloading an R8B by 40 dB?
Because the R8B is a consumer grade radio. I doubt it would overload
the R7A and I know it wouldn't overload a R390 or 392.
> even if the R8500 can handle the overload is this an ideal antenna for LW?
For ALL LW. No. For what I'm doing it is perfect.
> what about an indoor active loop?
Because it doesn't have the sensitivity or the aperture to get what
I'm looking for.
> or outdoor phased wires?
A possibility in the future. But if I create a steerable null but my
targets are on the same bearing as the interference, I haven't
improved anything, have I?
> or outdoor active
> whip?
Oh, good, an IMD generator. Just what I need. Only one whip design
-- that featured by AMRAD in QST -- shows promise for *anything*.
> we need to hear from some LW experts!
When I want to talk to someone about anything below 2 MHz, I ask Wayne
Heinen either on the weekly monitoring net or when I run into him at a
hamfest or an ARES meeting.
>
> you busted on the R8B
No, I busted on stevie to irritate him. He loves to twist words in a
way that must leave even bryant dazzled, and I wanted to get under his
very thin skin.
But you would remember that if you gave it any thought, since I
pointed this out to you less than 2 days ago. Physician, have thyself
checked for Alzheimers.
> but i suspect Les is getting more LW catches with his
> R8B and Quantum QX Pro... in the comfort of his own home. loops reduce noise
> and Q-multiplication tightens the input bandwidth.
Loops also reduce signal and loops don't have that much of an
aperture. Mind you, loops are not useless, but they don't suit
everyone's needs... or else that LW dxpedition in this months
monitoring times would never have left the comfort of their home and
used loops. Instead they strung multiple Beverages and used real
radios.
>
> btw, i would try another radio if i was having problems.
I have. It's called an ICOM R-8500.
> i currently listen
> mostly to BCB... my radio has 5 mods and i am running an indoor amplified
> loop... the combination is working GREAT.
Well, that's just so swell, phil, but some of us want more than
running wire-wrap around the room will provide. Furthermore, most of
us don't feel the need to rebuild our radios to get to the point where
they should have been when they came out of the box. If I want to
buid a kit radio, I'll build a kit. There are a couple of good ones
out there. If I want to build from plans, I'll build one of Pete G's
phenomenal designs. (Something which I intend to do.) If I want a
"Yugo radio" I'll use the R-75. If I want to think it's the best on
the planet I'll use ONLY an R-75 and spout off every time someone
points out a flaw.
I'll pass, thankyouverymuch.
Oh, BTW, not a soul took me up on my FS ad for the R-75. I may have
to drop the asking price to $100 to get a nibble.
>
> phil :)
>
Eric :-|
--
Eric F. Richards, efr...@dim.com
"Nature abhors a vacuum tube." -- J. R. Pierce, Bell Labs, c. 1940
starman
What kind of front-end preselection does the R7 have?
"Eric F. Richards" wrote:
snips
> >
> > we are talking about your antenna. why is it overloading an R8B by 40 dB?
>
> Because the R8B is a consumer grade radio. I doubt it would overload
> the R7A and I know it wouldn't overload a R390 or 392.
Kenneth
> filters are difficult to get to. Were I to replace them I'd replace
> them with the same rated filters but with better shape factors.
the point where they should have been when it came out of the box?.
> When I want to talk to someone about anything below 2 MHz, I ask Wayne
> Heinen either on the weekly monitoring net or when I run into him at a
> hamfest or an ARES meeting.
"Monitoring use real radios".
What real radio? A 8500? For LW?
> > btw, i would try another radio if i was having problems.
>
> I have. It's called an ICOM R-8500.
An now you have a R-8500 with filters problems and not sync det but
no problem, you can buy a sherwood [$500.00]and some filters
[$250.00]and a DSP for [$300.00]. Now you have a good Hf receiver for
only $2,850.With my frankenstein "yugo" and a RS scanner I surpass it
and my cost only $750.00 [I save only $2,100.]
> > i currently listen
> > mostly to BCB... my radio has 5 mods and i am running an indoor amplified
> > loop... the combination is working GREAT.
Yes we call it frankenstein junior.
Furthermore, most of
> us don't feel the need to rebuild our radios to get to the point where
> they should have been when they came out of the box. If I want to
> buid a kit radio, I'll build a kit. There are a couple of good ones
> out there. If I want to build from plans, I'll build one of Pete G's
> phenomenal designs. (Something which I intend to do.) If I want a
> "Yugo radio" I'll use the R-75. If I want to think it's the best on
> the planet I'll use ONLY an R-75 and spout off every time someone
> points out a flaw.
If you, don't know how to solder [4] 47k SM resistors to your R-75 how
can you built a kit radio?My "yugo" have some new powerful things
under the hood an are ready to throw some rubber in your "pinto" 8500
face.
>
> Oh, BTW, not a soul took me up on my FS ad for the R-75. I may have
> to drop the asking price to $100 to get a nibble.
Nobody want to risk with a radio that can have problems. You are
complaining for 6 months about the same problem with your radio in all
groups and with this propaganda who you think will go to buy your
radio? .You need first to send the radio to the next Icom service
center for check test and repair the problems that your radio
have,and after that you can easily ask $400.00 for it.
phil :)
thanks for your interesting commentary on the RX-340 (and R8B).
> The only real beef I have is the sync tends to loose
> lock on signal fades.
is their algorithm searching too soon? that problem exists in hardware on
the stock R75... Rado's (or John's) sync fix employs a delay.
> Another thing about the sync is that the radio needs to be
> tuned very close to zero beat for it to lock.
odd since a carrier is not hard to destinguish. would a user-selectable
window within which to look for the carrier help?
> This is the best sounding radio I have heard with filters
> up to 16 KHz when a station is in the clear.
post-fidelity mod i routinely use the 15 kHz filter on stations in the
clear... numerous on MW.
> in front of a classic looking car (a GTO I think)
yup '67 Pontiac GTO but i'll take a '67 Charger with a 440 Magnum... don't
get me started talking about mopar!
> On another note is phil short for philosopher or doctor of philosophy?
if i want my PhD i must return to school for two years.
phil :)