What Happened to Grundig?
Von Fourche
Every happened to Grundig shortwave radios? Did Grundig sell their
shortwave department to Eton? And who or what is Eton? Is Eton a Chinese
company?
I had a Grundig Yacht Boy 400 back in the mid 1990's and I loved that
little radio. Unfortunately I got mad one night and busted that radio. I
sure wish I had not done that. I'm thinking about buying another one off
e-bay, maybe.
Anyway, what's the story on Grundig and Eton?
D Peter Maus
Grundig sold the use of their name to Lextronix for use in North
America only. Lextronix was acquired by Eton. Eton is not a Chinese company.
Grundig still exists, but neither participates in, nor acknowledges
the products of Eton.
Grunding is still recovering after a magnificent boning by Philips.
Han
> little radio.
The Grundig is still besides my bed and performs great, there is only
one flaw. sometimes the radio goes to one freq and stays there no
matter which button you pusg. Distoting the case makes the solution.It
works again. It happens every few month.
Success with finding a new grundig 400
Greeting
Han. The Netherlands
If you want you can visit my website:
http://home.hetnet.nl/~hanhardonk/
which contains more than 100 recordings of radiostations below 30 MHz
Douche Bag
one. Sharper Image stopped selling them because of quailty issues. If
the flagship radio of Eton is a piece of junk, I can imagine what the
rest of their models are like.
John S.
Although Grundig produced radios in the 1930's, when most of us hear
the name we have visions of those large wood cased radios and later
tv's that were so popular from the late 1940's through the early
1970's. Mellow sound, large controls, long analog dials festooned with
city names, etc. characterized those products. Later they began
producing some really pricey and good sounding luggable shortwave
radios (Satellit) and a lot of smaller modestly priced units (the many
Boys).
Philips gradually took a controlling interest over maybe 2 decades
beginning in the mid 1970's. Grundig sales began to suffer and to me
at least it seemed that they had a tough time breaking free of the
analog radio model that served them so well for so long. Their digital
Satellit models were not as inspired or made as well as competition
from Japan. I suspect the sea-change that overtook the SWL hobby had a
bigger part to play in the downfall of Grundig though. A hobby that
was once popular with guys of all ages began to grey as the number of
people twisting shortwave radio dials dropped in the mid 1980's and
plummeted thereafter. There are very few people demanding and
companies supplying new shortwave radios compared to what once was.
Grundig got caught up in a combination of inattention by it's owners
and a dramatic drop in demand for it's products. Philips bailed out
late in the downward plunge and sold the name to yet another group.
Those owners I believe sold the Grundig naming rights to Eton and
limited the applicability to radios sold in the US. That deal tells me
the owners were trying to wring whatever cash they could get from a
failing investment. Grundig reorganized in bankruptcy and sold some of
their divisions. The radio products sold in the US under the Grundig
name have no association with Grundig in europe.
Grundig GMBH appears to sell a modest range of tv's, mp players, cd
units, clock radios that you would find in the catalog of any other
consumer electronic manufacturer. The range of units for sale may be
bigger than is found on their website. They do sell yacht boy, concert
boy, city boy and other recievers with shortwave coverage. Those units
look like they come from Degen/Tecsun/Redsun, etc., factories. The
Grundig europe website recognizes Eton on their worldwide map but they
do not provide any information on their products at all.
I don't know if I would spend too much time trying to figure out where
the real Grundig radio company is located and where their products
might be found. My opinion is that if there ever was a real Grundig,
it was disappearing rapidly by the early 1980's. It's just a brand
name pasted on a radio. Since Eton sells a variety of radios under the
Eton and Grundig names let's focus less on the name and more on how the
radios in question perform.
The Eton E1 to me looks like quite a radio for the money. The only
issue I've seen is the lack of a ferrite rod antenna which according to
some users is not a big deal.
cuh...@webtv.net
the Eton E1 radios are made/assembled in India.I own only one Grundig
radio which I believe was made by Telefunken and the radio was made in
Germany.It is an AM/FM/Shortwave/Phonograph wooden cabinet floor model
radio.One of the two little paper owners/operators manuals in the radio
has the date 1957 so I believe the radio is about 49 or 50 years old.I
also own a large Telefunken Opus 7 AM/FM/Shortwave table model wooden
cabinet radio.I dont know what year it was made but I think in the late
1950's or early to mid 1960's.I bought the floor model radio at a
Goodwill store for $14.00,the other radio I paid $4.00 for at a Goodwill
store.
cuhulin
cuh...@webtv.net
cuhulin
cuh...@webtv.net
sites says Grundig was the first to produce VHF sets.(or something like
that) Kind Ladies and Gentlemen,may I direct y'alls attention (Thank
You) to another www.devilfinder.com search? The Key Brothers Meridian
Mississippi
and where it says,Old Terminal Building,Hanger and Powerhouse at Key
Field.
Thanks for bending an ear.
cuhulin
sidwell...@aol.com
What happened to Grundig, is that they are making shitty receivers in
China, now !
Steve
It would be awesome if Grundig would return to the high-end shortwave
market and resume their Satellit line. Not likely to happen though.
Von Fourche
"John S." <hjs...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:1155305262.7...@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Well, I bought a Yacht Boy 400 in the early/mid 1990's. It received
good/excellent reviews in the Passport to World Band Radio books I had at
the time. It was a great little radio. Are the current YB 400's the same
quality as the originals? Would it be safer to try to find one made before
Eton took over?
Von Fourche
> The Eton E1 to me looks like quite a radio for the money. The only
> issue I've seen is the lack of a ferrite rod antenna which according to
> some users is not a big deal.
>
I read a review on some shortwave site. It gave that radio great
reviews. Over one thousand pre-sets? Awesome. I have XM Radio. It would
be interesting to have a radio that picks up local FM/AM, shortwave, and XM.
Then again, that just may be too many channels.
cuh...@webtv.net
eight weeks.
cuhulin
cuh...@webtv.net
right.Yesterday morning, Paul Gallo on the radio www.supertalkms.com
and another guy who phoned into Paul's radio talk show said something
about commie biased hates America Consumers Report magazine that I have
always known..
cuhulin
cuh...@webtv.net
time.
cuhulin
cuh...@webtv.net
cuhulin
Vesa
Something I've never seen anybody referring to is the striking
similarity between a Sony ICF2010 and a Grundig Satellit 700. Inside
that is. I personally own samples of both radios and also have the
schematics of both radios.
The Satellit 700 is more or less an upgraded ICF2010 (ICF2001D).
The synthesizer is using the same chips in a similar configuration
(Sony CX7961 and NEC uPC1037 chips two of both). The AM/FM-IF chip is
the same (Sanyo LA1205) as is the synchronous demodulator (Sony CX857).
The major differences of a SAT700 compared to ICF2010 are the inclusion
of RDS on FM and the use of switched varactor tuned filters on SW.
Otherwise the receivers look almost identical to an engineers eye.
It seems it would have been very unlikely for Grundig to be able to
source the Sony chips without a mutual agreement on the design ie.
Grundig must have bought the basic design from Sony! In the 60's and
70's the japanese very accused of ripping european and US designs.
Later on it seems that the roles did change a bit!
Coming back to changes on the original design Grundig did produce
a few bugs. The first one is quite often referred to as rumbling
synchronous AM. The main reason for this is that Grundig did mess
with the time base of the SAM-PLL. In SAT700 the LP-filter has a
56k resistor and a total of 11nF capasitance. In the ICF2010 the
same components are 10k and 11nF. Correcting the Grundig circuit
to comply with the Sony original does away with most of the rumble.
At it's easiest you just replace the 10nF of "CC817" with a 1nF capasitor.
The second bug is rather serious as well. The varactor tuned SW-
frontend filters are switched with PIN-diodes. In the Grundig
design the diodes of the filter in use have low forward bias.
The diodes of the remaining filters have their cathodes and anodes
at the same voltage ie. they have zero bias. For best intermodulation
performance one would reverse bias the non-conducting diodes. In my set
I reverse biased the diodes and the improvement in large signal handling
was remarkable.
What you need to do is to disconnect the resistors CR228,233,238,239,
245 and 246 from +AM+5V rail and connect them somewhere higher. In my
set I used the +30V tuning voltage generator and by a high impedance
voltage divisor produced +10V that I connected the resistors in to.
This resulted in a few volts of reverse bias for the diodes.
(Actually in the easiest implementation you remove the aforementioned
resistors and add new ones on vias on the PCB near the connector of the
cable going to the CPU-board...)
-Vesa-
John S.
Vesa wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Something I've never seen anybody referring to is the striking
> similarity between a Sony ICF2010 and a Grundig Satellit 700. Inside
> that is. I personally own samples of both radios and also have the
> schematics of both radios.
>
> The Satellit 700 is more or less an upgraded ICF2010 (ICF2001D).
> The synthesizer is using the same chips in a similar configuration
> (Sony CX7961 and NEC uPC1037 chips two of both). The AM/FM-IF chip is
> the same (Sanyo LA1205) as is the synchronous demodulator (Sony CX857).
I would expect that there would be a lot more similarities before one
could say with a straight face the Satellit 700 is an upgraded 2010.
Indeed given the quality problems of the radio I would say it was a
large step in the other direction.
>
> The major differences of a SAT700 compared to ICF2010 are the inclusion
> of RDS on FM and the use of switched varactor tuned filters on SW.
> Otherwise the receivers look almost identical to an engineers eye.
>
> It seems it would have been very unlikely for Grundig to be able to
> source the Sony chips without a mutual agreement on the design ie.
> Grundig must have bought the basic design from Sony! In the 60's and
> 70's the japanese very accused of ripping european and US designs.
> Later on it seems that the roles did change a bit!
I suspect that Sony like any other electronics manufacturer is more
than willing to sell components at a price. It takes much more than
components to make a good shortwave radio. It takes attention to
design, details and scrupulous assembly techniques. Grundig fell down
in those categories. Sony on the other hand set the benchmark for a
quality product.
>
> Coming back to changes on the original design Grundig did produce
> a few bugs. The first one is quite often referred to as rumbling
> synchronous AM. The main reason for this is that Grundig did mess
> with the time base of the SAM-PLL. In SAT700 the LP-filter has a
> 56k resistor and a total of 11nF capasitance. In the ICF2010 the
> same components are 10k and 11nF. Correcting the Grundig circuit
> to comply with the Sony original does away with most of the rumble.
> At it's easiest you just replace the 10nF of "CC817" with a 1nF capasitor.
>
> The second bug is rather serious as well. The varactor tuned SW-
> frontend filters are switched with PIN-diodes. In the Grundig
> design the diodes of the filter in use have low forward bias.
> The diodes of the remaining filters have their cathodes and anodes
> at the same voltage ie. they have zero bias. For best intermodulation
> performance one would reverse bias the non-conducting diodes. In my set
> I reverse biased the diodes and the improvement in large signal handling
> was remarkable.
>
> What you need to do is to disconnect the resistors CR228,233,238,239,
> 245 and 246 from +AM+5V rail and connect them somewhere higher. In my
> set I used the +30V tuning voltage generator and by a high impedance
> voltage divisor produced +10V that I connected the resistors in to.
> This resulted in a few volts of reverse bias for the diodes.
> (Actually in the easiest implementation you remove the aforementioned
> resistors and add new ones on vias on the PCB near the connector of the
> cable going to the CPU-board...)
I could not imagine anyone spending the hundreds of dollars the 700
sold for when new only to have to fix this many serious problems. I
would send that radio back for a full refund. That lack of quality in
a radio at this price level is inexcusable.
>
> -Vesa-
Vesa
With all due respect I doubt if you have ever seen the schematics of
the two sets or indeed had a look inside them. Having a peek inside it's
really clear that the quality of construction of a ICF2010 is inferior
to that of a Satellit 700. Regarding schematics, to talk about "carbon
copy" could be pushing it a bit but clearly the SAT700 is an attempt to
improve the original Sony design. You really have to see the schematics
yourself to get the point. In my first message I only mentioned some
details quite obvious. (Could start to talk about the dual-loop
synthesizer design on both sets using the same components...)
Regarding how Grundig came to use the Sony design, we can only
speculate. As far as I can remember at the time in question (15-20 years
ago) the now usual OEM/ODM/ref.design sort of business model wasn't that
commonplace.
Anyway claiming that SAT700 quality is inferior to ICF2010 quality is
stretching it a bit. In my opinion credit should be given to both
receivers. For ICF2010 for being progressive in design (in true Sony
tradition) and for SAT700 for it's high quality. At present both sets
are collectible. The Satellit 700 especially for being the last of the
line and Sony for it's revolutionary design (SAM). Regarding the
front-end PIN-diode bug the Satellit 700 still manages a higher dynamic
range than the ICF2010. Correcting the bug only realizes what the design
should have been capable of firstplace. (Responsability of the circuit
seems to have been given to a summer trainee perhaps.)
-Vesa-
John Black
800 which had no relation to the 700 at all.
Outside of the poor sync performance, I know of no quality problems the 700
ever had.
OTOH, I distinctly remember a few serious problems the 2010 had, like having
the memory erase when you jostled it, and having the first RF amp die when
you touch the aerial!
"Vesa" <Ve...@nosuch.address.fi> wrote in message
news:44de8a4a$0$22344$9b53...@news.fv.fi...
Conan Ford
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/portable/4000.html
RHF
VF,
ABOUT - GRUNDIG AG [Germany]
{ Grundig Intermedia GmbH }
FYI - In 2004, England's Alba PLC and Turkey's Beko Elektronik A.S.
jointly took over Grundig Home InterMedia System (HIS), Grundig's
Consumer Electronics Division and currently, the British Alba/Beko
Consortium retain control of Grundig,
GRUNDIG => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grundig
Alba PLC is a Consumer Electronics Company
that is based in the United Kingdom {England}.
ALBA => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alba_%28electronics%29
Beko Elektronik A.S. is one of the largest Electronics
Producers in Turkey and much more . . .
http://www.bekoelektronik.com.tr/bekoen/tarihce.htm
http://www.bekoelektronik.com.tr/
http://www.bekoelektronik.com.tr/bekoen/koc_holding.htm
History of Grundig AG [Germany]
HISTORY => http://www.grundig.com/index.php?id=248
Years 1945-1954 / 1955-1964 / 1965-1974
Years 1975-1984 / 1985-1994 / 1995-2003
Years 2004 - . . .
Grundig AG [Germany]
http://www.grundig.com/index.php?id=144&no_cache=1
http://www.grundig.com/index.php?id=164&no_cache=1
Grundig {Brand} World Band Receivers
Sold by Grundig AG [Germany]
http://www.grundig.com/index.php?id=301&no_cache=1
Last but not least "Max Grundig"
MAX => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Grundig
as always more than you wanted to know ~ RHF
.
.
. .
John S.
you read what you post? Plus, I spent enough time at the local SWL
store and talking with guys on CIS and the fidonet boards to realize
there were indeed quality problems with the radio.
Jake Brodsky
The YB-400 was a Chinese creation with the Grundig name. It was a good
radio given what it cost. I still have mine and I often take it with me
when I travel.
That said, there were many who thought the quality control left
something to be desired. I have not had problems, but apparently others
did. I don't know what became of this "Grundig" name use arrangement.
I'm not surprised that it's no longer sold this way.
DE AB3A
John S.
Jake Brodsky wrote:
> Von Fourche wrote:
> > Every happened to Grundig shortwave radios? Did Grundig sell their
> > shortwave department to Eton? And who or what is Eton? Is Eton a Chinese
> > company?
> >
> > I had a Grundig Yacht Boy 400 back in the mid 1990's and I loved that
> > little radio. Unfortunately I got mad one night and busted that radio. I
> > sure wish I had not done that. I'm thinking about buying another one off
> > e-bay, maybe.
> >
> > Anyway, what's the story on Grundig and Eton?
>
> The YB-400 was a Chinese creation with the Grundig name.
What in the world is a Chinese creation. We should then refer to older
Sony radios as Japanese creations, Ford car radios as Chinese
creations, Volvo cars as multinational creations, etc. Consumer and
other products are produced by countries rather than companies?????
Jake Brodsky
> What in the world is a Chinese creation. We should then refer to older
> Sony radios as Japanese creations, Ford car radios as Chinese
> creations, Volvo cars as multinational creations, etc. Consumer and
> other products are produced by countries rather than companies?????
I used the term "creation" because this radio had nothing much to do
with the well known (and highly regarded) German firm Grundig, except
for the name. You are correct in that the components did come from many
countries; though it appears from looking on the inside that the
majority of them did come from China.
DE AB3A
John S.
Jake Brodsky wrote:
> John S. wrote:
>
> > What in the world is a Chinese creation. We should then refer to older
> > Sony radios as Japanese creations, Ford car radios as Chinese
> > creations, Volvo cars as multinational creations, etc. Consumer and
> > other products are produced by countries rather than companies?????
>
> I used the term "creation" because this radio had nothing much to do
> with the well known (and highly regarded) German firm Grundig, except
> for the name.
FWIW, I don't think there is much of Grundig europe left after the
various operating units were sold off. After looking at their product
line my impression is that they are just another small consumer
electronics company that sells goods manufactured in asia. There is
little germanic about them that I could see.
Bob Agnew
> time.
You need to buy more TV sets.
<cuh...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:29710-44...@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net...
cuh...@webtv.net
subscription fees either) with the satellite dish antenna and hand held
remote control.That would mean I would go out and buy another CRT tv
set.I have two CRT tv sets turned on and looking at me right now.
cuhulin