SONY ICF-2110, ICF-SW77
Jean Francois
I'd like to get into shortwave listening; and the receiver that I'm
looking at is the Sony ICF-2110 or the SW77. Does anyone know anything
about any of those two? Also, are there much music on shortwave; or is it
all news? Is there a FAQ out there? What is AIR-BAND and SSB? Please
e-mail answer.
Thank You,
JB..
---------------------------------
- Time heals; then it kills. -
---------------------------------
Scooter709
I think you mean the Sony 2010. Anyway, I have a SW-77 that I bought used
a couple of months ago from a guy who was selling it via this newsgroup
(rec.radio.shortwave) and I love it. It is the more expensive radio of the
two you mentioned, but it is much more sensitive that my other shortwave
receivers ( I also have a Sony SW1, a Sony SW10 and a National Panasonic
DR-31). The SW-77 has preprogrammed stations and you can add your own,
plus lots of other neat features. If you can afford it, buy the SW-77.
Carol
Chuck Martel
the "gizmo" appeal/features. But in real performance (and "chugging" through
freqs) the 2010 wins out.
You'll probably be happy with either.
Sam Goller
looking at is the Sony ICF-2110 or the SW77.<<
I bought a SW77 last year and think it's great. Here's a review I wrote
about it back then. I continue to believe it's the best radio in the
price range.
One Listeners Review of the Sony ICF-SW77
---------------------------------------
August 11, 1994
In reviewing this radio I will try not to repeat too much of the
information that can be found in the Passport World Band Radio book or in
other reviews that have been posted here. Before I begin, here's a
little bit about me. I'm 34, have a day job and am not an amateur radio
operator. I do however enjoy listening to my scanner (RS PRO-2006) and
my shortwave radio. I'm what you'd call a casual listener. The scanner
runs about 6 hours a week and the shortwave about the same. I use both
solely for entertainment and information. I wouldn't call this a hobby
so much as a distraction. In other words, this won't get too technical
but hopefully will provide you some useful information.
With that in mind, away we go ...
Recently I went shopping for a new shortwave radio. I have a Kenwood
R-1000. It's a desktop model that requires an external antenna. I
wanted something a little more portable and newer. So a-shopping-I-did-go.
The models I considered were the Grundig Satellit 700, the Sony 7600G and
the Sony SW77. After several weeks of looking and comparing, I bought
the SW77. I've had it for a week now and I truly believe that I made the
right (and best) choice. Bottom line ... buy it.
I wanted a radio that offered a synchronous detector and SSB
capabilities. All three fit that bill. I also wanted something that was
portable. Travel size wasn't important, but I wanted to easily move it
from room to room and take it with me on the occasional picnic.
My decision to by the SW77 was based on many things, but mainly the
process of elimination. Reception wise, I found them all to be fairly
equal. At least to listen to them in the store. Not too scientific, but
all three have fairly decent reputations so I wasn't worried about that
as much as could I live with the radio I bought. So really my decision
was based on cosmetics, ergonomics and features.
I nixed the 7600G because of its size. Too small. The speaker, although
certainly listenable, wasn't equal to the other two. And holding it and
playing with the buttons I felt it lacked substance. Kinda like when you
close a car door and it goes tink instead of thud. I'm sure other people
might find this lightweight an advantage. I didn't. Keep in mind my
other radio is a desktop so I'm more comfortable with a heavier feel.
When I started shopping, the Grundig was my first choice. I liked its
styling and classic sturdy looks. However, I was turned off by the fact
that the factory set ROM couldn't be modified (at least, that's the what
the salesman told me). Who are they to tell me what I want to listen
to. Granted I could enter other frequencies, but I felt like I was being
charged for something (their station selection) that I might not find
useful. Gradually, for whatever reason, the more I looked at the Grundig
the less I liked it. It felt overly heavy for a portable and the
controls weren't as easy to work as the SW-77.
Ordering It
----------
I bought my SW77 from Grove (1-800-438-8155) for $477.95. That included
ground UPS shipping which delivered to Kansas City in less than 48
hours. Local retail had it priced at $545 and other mail order (EEB,
Gilfer, Universal) had it priced identical to Grove. I picked Grove
because of their try it for 30 days, no hassle, no restocking fee return
policy.
What's In The Box
----------------
Included in the box was: The radio, a 5 language manual (about 34 pages
per language), a "How To Catch The Wave" pamphlet which describes radio
waves and how to use the Wave Handbook, "Wave Handbook" with radio
listings, a sheet listing all the factory pre-sets, A.C. power cord,
shoulder strap, stereo ear buds, a Sony AN-71 compact wire antenna (7
meters long), and an adapter to attach an external antenna. There were
also the various scraps of paper that talk about service and warranty.
The Specs
---------
10 7/8 x 6 7/8 x 1 7/8 inches (w/h/d)
276 x 172.5 x 46.5 mm
3 1/4 lbs with batteries (1.48 kg)
FM coverage from 76.0-108 MHz
Continuous AM coverage from 150-29,999.9 kHz
SSB reception - USB, LSB/CW
Uses 4 size C batteries
Telescopic Antenna for FM/SW
Built in ferrite bar for MW/LW
Features
--------
Some of the SW-77's features include -
Quartz PLL synthesizer tuning
FM stereo with headphones
Direct frequency tuning
Manual tuning in 1kHz and 50Hz intervals
Scan tuning
162 station presets - fully modifiable with name and broadcast start/end time
Synchronous detector
24 hour clock display with UTC or local time
5 preset timers to turn radio (and an attached tape recorder) on and off
Sleep timer with 15, 30, 60 minute intervals
Radio Layout
-----------
Back Side - On the back of the SW-77 is the compartment for the batteries
and the flip down stand. The stand allows the radio to sit on a table at
about a 30-degree angle.
Left Side - On the left side, as you look at the front of the radio, are
jacks for an external antenna, tape remote control, tape line out,
headphones and the 6v power adapter. There's also a sensitivity switch
for DX, Normal and Local stations.
Right Side - On the right side, as you look at the front of the radio,
are two dials (bass and treble) and the volume control. Volume is a
slider. The two dials offer resistance when they are set at 0 (zero) so
it's easy to balance bass and treble in the dark. Just above the volume
control is a Dial Lock switch that locks out the tuning spinner so you
don't accidently change frequencies.
Top - On the top of the radio is the telescopic antenna and a flip door.
Beneath the door are the controls for the LCD display contrast and
setting the time. There's also a button to display how many frequency
memories are free and a reset switch to completely reset the radio should
the buttons not work (hopefully, I won't have to use this). The flip
panel includes a world map so you can figure out the time in other parts
of the world.
Front - Here's where all the action takes place. The left third of the
radio is for the speaker. The other two-thirds has all the buttons and
switches. There are buttons for Wide/Narrow selectivity, Synchronous
detection, SSB, Light, FM, AM, Key Protect (locks out keyboard), AM
Fast/Slow (50 Hz or 1kHz tuning), Sleep, Timer Standby (to turn the radio
on and off at one of 5 preset times), On/Off switch with lock so it won't
accidentally turn on in a suitcase, 10 buttons for direct frequency
entry, Scan/Auto Tune (more on Auto Tune later), and several other
buttons that are used to program and access the presets (more later).
There's also a spinner dial that lets you manually tune.
The front LCD display is divided into two parts. The top part has
information about the time, station's broadcast schedules (you need to
enter this information) and the standby timer. The bottom part has
information about which band you're on (FM,AM,SSB) and how you're tuned
in (Wide/Narrow & Sync U/Sync L & Sync Lock). There's also a signal
meter, station label, frequency listing and preset station information
(again, more later)
The light button, lights up both parts when the radio is turned on and
only the top part when the radio is turned off. The display is
uncluttered and very easy to read and understand.
The Presets
-----------
The SW77 has several storages spaces for preset. Sony refers to these as
"pages". There are twenty "Tuning Pages", two "Quick Pages" and one
"Timer Page".
Each of the Tuning Pages can hold up to five station names. And each
station can hold up to 10 frequencies and schedules. This allows you to
enter multiple listening options for each station. Let's say you
regularly listen to the BBC. You can enter 10 BBC frequencies and
schedules into one preset button. Then, when you select the BBC preset,
you can quickly choose which of the 10 frequencies has the best signal.
The SW77 can also Auto Tune to find the best signal. It will
automatically scan the 10 frequencies to find the strongest signal and
lock in on that frequency. Of course, given the nature of shortwave, it
might not be the BBC that's broadcasting on that frequency at that time.
When you scan through the frequencies in the presets, the display will
let you know if a particular frequency is "On Air". By comparing the
clock's time against the broadcast schedule that you enter into the
radio, the radio will notify you if that frequency is supposed to be active.
The maximum number of frequencies that can be stored in the SW77 is 162.
This means that every preset on every page can't have 10 frequency
selections.
The two Quick Pages are very similar to Tuning Pages but only allows one
frequency per preset button. Therefore you can only store 10 frequencies
in the Quick Pages.
The Timer Page allows you to store five frequencies (one per preset).
The SW77 uses the Timer Page to determine when to turn the radio on and
off based upon a station's broadcast schedule. Programming the Timer
Pagers of the SW77 is kind of like programming a VCR to record while
you're away ... only easier.
All the presets are accessed by pressing buttons. There are separate
buttons for the Quick Pages and Timer Page. Two buttons (+/- with up and
down arrows) let you scroll through the Tuning Pages. Two other buttons
with arrows let you step through the different frequencies stored in each
preset. Each preset is called-up by pressing a corresponding station
button (S1...S5). Contrary to the review in Passport, changing pages and
moving to a new frequency is not difficult. I guess it's just a matter
of what you're used to.
All the buttons are clearly marked and easy to use.
Setting the presets is fairly easy. Although it does require a little
manual studying at first, like riding a bicycle, once you get it, you got
it. And, if you forget, the step-by-step directions are easy to follow
and understand.
One of the neatest features is that you can label _every_ preset. So you
don't have to keep a sheet of paper next to your radio to index the
stations. Using the buttons and tuning spinner, you can enter up to six
letters, numbers and characters as a label.
Ergonomics
----------
The designers at Sony must have had me in mind when they made this
radio. The SW77 fits and feels right. I have three favorite listening
positions - 1) Sitting in a chair with the radio on a table; 2) Laying
on my stomach with the radio in front of me; and 3) Sitting in a chair
with the radio in my lap. In all three positions the SW77 is easy to
hold and operate.
Sensitivity
----------
I don't have a scientific way to measure this. I only have the Kenwood
R-1000 tabletop with long wire antenna to compare with. And, in every
case, the Sony (with built-in antenna) outperformed the Kenwood. Could
be that there's a flaw in my long wire antenna design but it's hard to
make a mistake with a 40-50 foot piece of wire. Anyway, for what it's
worth the Kenwood's in a closet.
The synchronous detector works well. However, it seems to be most
effective on weaker signals. When I use the synch with a real strong
signal, nothing happens or the radio tends to overmodulate. With a
weaker signal it helps lock in the signal and improve both the sound and
clarity. Unfortunately, I've noticed with some signals that it also
increases the noise surrounding the signal and fading. I'm not familiar
enough with this feature on other radios to know if this is unique to the
SW77 or standard for the technology. Regardless, the synch definately
makes listening more enjoyable and certainly helps.
There is also wide and narrow selectivity. The narrow selectivity helps
eliminate a lot of the noise surrounding a signal. In doing so, it also
mutes the volume and tone. Adjusting the treble, bass and volume helps
fix this.
By using both the synch and wide/narrow selectivity, the SW77 does a
respectable job pulling in signals and improving reception.
Overall Likes & Dislikes
----------------------
There are several things about the SW77 that I like and even some things
that I'm not too fond of. I like how the tuning and preset functions
work. The buttons are easy to operate and tuning is fairly intuitive.
However, I wish there would have been two scan buttons. That way I could
scan up and _down_ the frequencies. As it is, I can only scan up.
When you use the tuning spinner, there is definitely "chugging". It
happens at slow and fast speeds, but is worse when you tune fast. This
makes it difficult to spin through the frequencies and try and find
something interesting to listen to. However, the fine tuning, at 50 Hz
steps, is certainly acceptable and expected at this price level.
Stereo reception through the headphones is excellent. But, I'd like to
have seen some kind of stereo indicator in the display. In general, I
find the audio quality of the radio (on all bands) to be well above average.
Setting the clock to the second is a breeze. Just hold a button and let
go when you hear the tone ("At the tone, it will be ..."). However, it
appears as though it loses about two seconds every week.
My biggest complaint is the extendable antenna. It's too darn thin at
the top. This makes raising and lowering the antenna a very delicate
operation. Aside from that, the antenna works well. I attached the
radio to Radio Shack's active antenna and SW reception got worse. I
attached my long wire antenna to the SW77 and SW reception improved. The
degree of improvement varied, but it was definately better.
The light does a very good job of evenly lighting the display. I wish
there was a way to make it stay on. As it is, it will only stay on for
about 10 seconds after you push the light button or stop tuning the
radio. A real cool thing to have would be to backlight the keyboard.
Maybe next year's model.
Unlike other companies that build the transformer into the plug, Sony
took another design route. There is a polarized plug on one end, the
transformer is inline and then the 6 volt plug is on the other end. This
eliminates having a bulky transformer taking up two spaces on a power
strip or having its weight pull it out of the wall socket. For some
reason, when I plug the power supply into the radio the low battery
indicator blinks. When I turn the radio on, it goes away. Haven't quite
understood that yet.
One other feature I'd like to have seen is a "last frequency listened to"
button. This would work like the last channel viewed button on a TV
remote. That way I could compare signals of two frequencies without
having to reenter the frequency with the keypad. I could just push the
button and it would toggle between the two. Oh well, something else for
next year's model.
Summary
--------
This is a great radio. The pluses far outweigh the minuses. And most of
the minuses aren't flaws in the radio but personal preferences. The only
real flaws are the "chugging" (which isn't unique to the SW77) and the
delicate antenna. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this radio. And, I
already have to several people. If you're looking for a good quality,
portable radio that has all the bells and whistles and performance that
makes it fun to use, buy the Sony SW77.
I'm more than happy to discuss this radio further. Questions or comments
are welcome.
Sam Goller
sgo...@tyrell.net
-Knudsen,M.J.
Sam Goller <sgo...@tyrell.net> wrote:
>I bought a SW77 last year and think it's great. Here's a review I wrote
>about it back then. I continue to believe it's the best radio in the
>price range.
I just got a SW77 myself. WARNING: It's a 3-year old used model,
so may have some problems yours doesn't. But I'd like to make a
few comments on this very good review.
>I nixed the 7600G because of its size. Too small. The speaker, although
>certainly listenable, wasn't equal to the other two. And holding it and
>playing with the buttons I felt it lacked substance. Kinda like when you
I also got one of these (new) for its small size. I think it's
pretty solid, tho not as nice as its older brother 2002 (7600D).
>When I started shopping, the Grundig was my first choice. I liked its
>styling and classic sturdy looks. However, I was turned off by the fact
>that the factory set ROM couldn't be modified (at least, that's the what
>the salesman told me). Who are they to tell me what I want to listen
Hey, it's a *German* radio :-)
>the less I liked it. It felt overly heavy for a portable and the
>controls weren't as easy to work as the SW-77.
I thought the 700's controls were easy to use, EXCEPT I never did
figure out for sure how to tune in a preset station. Really.
Back to the SW77:
>slider. The two dials offer resistance when they are set at 0 (zero) so
>it's easy to balance bass and treble in the dark. Just above the volume
>control is a Dial Lock switch that locks out the tuning spinner so you
>don't accidently change frequencies.
Yes, I really like the center detent in the tone controls.
Every set should have that, and the 7600G should have it in the
center of its SSB Fine Tuning knob.
I find I set that Dial Lock a LOT -- it's easy to bump the spinner.
> There's also a button to display how many frequency
>memories are free and a reset switch to completely reset the radio should
That FREE button is a lifesaver! Note that unlike the Sat700 it
does not tell you *which* locations are free, but thanks to the
SW77's memory system that is irrelevant. Since the SW77 uses a
"shared memory buffer" scheme, you can enter the station now
playing under ANY button that doesn't have all 10 frequencies used.
If this doesn't make sense, you really should get your hands on an
SW77 and check it out.
>the buttons not work (hopefully, I won't have to use this). The flip
>panel includes a world map so you can figure out the time in other parts
>of the world.
Yes, and you slide it back and forth to help the "computation."
Even nicer than the rotary time-dial on the old Zeniths.
>There's also a spinner dial that lets you manually tune.
And also select the letters when you enter new station names
(ever wonder how you'd do that?) Much like entering your name
into an arcade or pinball game.
>The light button, lights up both parts when the radio is turned on and
>only the top part when the radio is turned off. The display is
Top part is clock. I thought this was pretty neat to light up
only the part you wanted to see.
>Each of the Tuning Pages can hold up to five station names. And each
>station can hold up to 10 frequencies and schedules. This allows you to
>enter multiple listening options for each station. Let's say you
And don't forget that "station" can mean any category you care to
make up an 8-character anme for. I have lists of frequencies under
"FM-JAZZ" and "English" and "UTC-TIME" etc.
>The maximum number of frequencies that can be stored in the SW77 is 162.
>This means that every preset on every page can't have 10 frequency
>selections.
Yes. In theory you could have 1000 (20x5x10) freqs.
Nice way to put more memories in next year's model, without
changing the "operating system" in any way!
>The two Quick Pages are very similar to Tuning Pages but only allows one
>frequency per preset button. Therefore you can only store 10 frequencies
>in the Quick Pages.
NO! You're selling the radio short! It's the Timer Page that
allows only one freq per station.
What's *really* neat about the QUick Pages is that you can punch
up a preset from another page (like the BBC example), store it on
a Quick Page button -- and ALL the freqs and times under that BBC
list (up to 10) get copied automatically into the Quick Page button.
>The Timer Page allows you to store five frequencies (one per preset).
Yep.
>off based upon a station's broadcast schedule. Programming the Timer
>Pagers of the SW77 is kind of like programming a VCR to record while
>you're away ... only easier.
Well, maybe....
But one nice feature is you can input times in either local or GMT/UTC,
whichever is currently showing on the clock.
>button (S1...S5). Contrary to the review in Passport, changing pages and
>moving to a new frequency is not difficult. I guess it's just a matter
>of what you're used to.
Yes. It's really easy to punch up a preset station -- but you do
have to play with 3 different sets of buttons (Page Feed, buttons
under the window, and the arrows over the knob) to do it.
Since I never figured out the Grundig Sat-700, I can't say how
many button presses that set takes :-)
>Setting the presets is fairly easy. Although it does require a little
>manual studying at first, like riding a bicycle, once you get it, you got
Yes. Too bad it's nearly impossible to *change* a station name,
or a frequency's detector modes, etc.
>One of the neatest features is that you can label _every_ preset. So you
>don't have to keep a sheet of paper next to your radio to index the
This is probably the main reason I got this radio. Human memories
just aren't designed to hold 162 frequencies after 50 years :-)
>The designers at Sony must have had me in mind when they made this
>radio. The SW77 fits and feels right. I have three favorite listening
Nice feature is the recessed handholds on the back near the ends.
You can grip it solidly with your left hand while punching buttons
with the right. Left-handers can almost as easily grip the set
with the right hand, tho you gotta keep your thumb off the buttons.
>Sensitivity
>----------
>I don't have a scientific way to measure this. I only have the Kenwood
>R-1000 tabletop with long wire antenna to compare with. And, in every
>case, the Sony (with built-in antenna) outperformed the Kenwood. Could
Wow! On my Sloper antenna, the SW77 works great. But on its own whip,
the 7600G beats it on weak signals.
Anyway, that 3-position antenna attenuator really helps on a longwire.
>The synchronous detector works well. However, it seems to be most
>effective on weaker signals. When I use the synch with a real strong
>signal, nothing happens or the radio tends to overmodulate. With a
I hadn't noticed this problem -- will have to try a local powerhouse.
>clarity. Unfortunately, I've noticed with some signals that it also
>increases the noise surrounding the signal and fading. I'm not familiar
Synch does wipe out the bass, so is good mostly for voice, not
music. It does add a more focussed background noise.
A trick -- if synch loses lock on weak signals, just use SSB.
The SW77 tuning is so accurate it will sound just like the synch.
>When you use the tuning spinner, there is definitely "chugging". It
>happens at slow and fast speeds, but is worse when you tune fast. This
>makes it difficult to spin through the frequencies and try and find
Yes, I don't like this, and neither did Passport. SInce my radio
is 3 years old and out of warranty, maybe I should volunteer to
crack it open and look for a wire-cut mod to cure the chugging.
The Sat-700 is MUCH worse in this regard, BTW.
>My biggest complaint is the extendable antenna. It's too darn thin at
>the top. This makes raising and lowering the antenna a very delicate
>operation. Aside from that, the antenna works well. I attached the
Passport said it was "flimsy." I wouldn't go that far. My
complaint is it's too short -- another foot or two would be in
keeping with a radio this size. Every inch counts. Your new
model is about 8" longer with its 11 segments to my 9.
>Unlike other companies that build the transformer into the plug, Sony
>took another design route. There is a polarized plug on one end, the
>transformer is inline and then the 6 volt plug is on the other end. This
Lucky you -- my older AC adapter is the clunky wall-wart style.
On balance, I like this radio too, and have several others around.
I wish mine were more sensitive -- and a couple more feet of
antenna would help.
--
m.j.k...@att.com /// knu...@ihades.att.com
It's not how many friends come to your funeral;
It's how many collectors come to your estate sale that counts!
christopher forrest
for a radio. I've had an SW1 for many years, and a 77 for a few months.
I enjoy the 77 a lot, but it is not a radio for everyone. Some people
take to it like ducks to water, and for other people it is a bit
complicated. Here is the review I posted a few months ago, I hope it is
of some help. (After Sam Goller's article, it seems a bit unnecissary
to post anything on the subject of the 77, but there are some comments
on other radios here as well.) Unfortunately I can't agree with Chuck
Martel who says the 2010 outperforms the 77. The 2010 is a great radio,
but I think it is more a matter of personal taste that makes people
prefer them over the 77, which is after all ten years or so newer. Here
goes the review:
I recently inspected the following radios because I wanted to buy one
of them: Sony ICF SW100, ICF SW 77, ICF SW 2010, Grundig Satellit 700,
Sangean ATS 803A (a.k.a. Siemens RK651, Realistic DX-440), Sangean
ATS-808 (aka Siemens RK661, & Realistic DX-380). These are all radios
which have been reviewed in Passport to World Band Radio. Here are my
comments listed by radio. I actually had a chance to take three of the
radios home with me to test them for a few days. These were the Sony
ICF SW-2010, ICF SW-77, and Grundig Satellit 700. If you can get the
chance, this is the best way to buy a shortwave radio.
Sony ICF SW-77 (the one I finally bought)
This radio is leagues ahead of the others in the areas I consider
important: reception, easy tuning, useful preset control, audio
quality, and ergonomics. In a comparison with the "venerable" ICF
SW-2010, this model is superior in bandwidth selectability, SSB
reception, Synchronous tuning, physical construction and audio quality.
The reviews call it too complicated to use. I can see how this could be
true depending on your learning style. The way the preset system works
is that you have 20 "pages" of five "stations" each. You access the
pages by flipping forward or backward through them with two big
buttons. The page number (1-20) you are on is in a box in the lower
right corner of the display. The display has a row of boxes which show
the 6-digit names of each of the five "stations" on each page. These
names are right above five rectangular buttons that they correspond to.
So you see "BBC" or "Turkey" in the box, and you hit the button right
under it to get that "station". The word station is somewhat of a
misnomer, as these are merely collections of alternate frequencies (up
to 10 per 'station'). When you hit the station button, one of two
things happens (you decide which). Either the radio will scan for the
frequency with the strongest signal, or it will chose the frequency
which is "On Air". This brings us to another interesting and
surprisingly valuabel feature of the 77. You can store time information
with the frequency. We all know how shortwave stations broadcast on
different frequencies at different times. With the 77, you store this
information with the frequency. (You don't have to, of course). So say
you want to listen to the BBC. If you hit the BBC button the radio
looks at the clock and sees it is 22:30 UTC, then it looks for a
frequency listed on the BBC "station" which should be broadcasting at
that time. It finds that 5975 is "On Air" from 2100 to 0600, so it
chooses this frequency. That's just it choosing for you, you can of
course then move up and down the list by using two Ôup and downŐ
buttons. Bandwidth and mode (SSB/Synch) are also stored with the
frequency. It is true that other radios make it simpler to find a
particular *frequency*, but the 77 makes it easier to find a particular
station. Of course the "stations" don't have to be actual stations,
they're just lists of frequencies you store under a common name. It
could be "jazz" or "news" or "nutbar" a station name I gave to a group
of times and frequencies of some wacky SW wierdos. You can also tune to
a specific metre-band (41, 49 etc) and then start seeking for strong
signals (see Grundig 700 for some bad news on this front). You can tap
in a frequency directly and have it come up. You can also program the
five step timer using the same principles which govern programing the
stations. There are also two Quick Pages (total 10 freqs) for quickly
storing and accessing frequencies. I find I use this a lot when I am
scanning the Ham operators on SSB because they never seem to be in the
same place for long. It's also great for keeping 'bookmarks' on things
you stumble across when you are scanning for signals. The tuning dial
looks like it would be a pain to operate, but it is actually very nice
to use: very smooth and it tunes in either 1 or .05 KHz increments. Of
all the radios I looked at, this was the finest tuning: which really
makes a difference in SSB tuning. The only disadvantage is a 'virtual
disadvantage'. Although there are 20 pages of five stations which can
each hold ten frequencies (20x5x10=1000), you can only hold a total of
162 frequencies over the 20 pages. It seems like a disappointment when
you realise it, but 162 is still a lot of frequencies! It's a virtual
disappointment because it doesn't really exist. Think about it, this is
an organised access system, just like the very SW dial itself. Are you
disappointed when you find that not all of the frequencies in the
150-30000 KHz range are not filled?
Sony ICF SW-2010
This is indeed a very nice radio in many ways. It offers incredible AM
audio on the wide bandwidth setting, and it is very easy to use the
presets. Disadvantages are that that same wide bandwidth setting which
makes AM sound like FM, makes shortwave sound like you live underneath
a set of highwires. It is simply too wide: about 70 percent of the time
I had it tuned to a SW station, there was a high wistling and lots of
extraneous noise. The whistle really got to me after a while. Putting
it on the narrow setting detracts significantly from audio quality and
thus makes a lot of what you hear unintelligible. The much-praised
preset system has a couple of major drawbacks. I do a lot of scanning
for strong signals: just looking around and seeing what surprises I can
find. The way you perform a scan on the 2010 is very clumsy. If you
want to scan, you have to enter the metre band (say 75mb) using one of
the blue keys, then you start scanning from the beginning of that band.
That's fine. But if you have subsequently manually entered a frequency
with one of the *white* keys, or gone to one of your memory presets,
and then want to start scanning from there, you can't. You hit the scan
button, and it goes back to the 75 mb and starts tuning from the
beginning. If you want to scan from a certain frequency, you have to
either go through a fiddly process to set your scanning range, or you
have to look up which band your frequency is in and enter the band
number and .... it may sound fussy of me to raise the objection, but I
really found it very obtrusive to my enjoyment of SW, a lot of which is
dependant on being able to scan around for stuff in any given area.
Anyways.
Grundig Satellit 700
This is the Audi of shortwave radios. It is very comp... VERY
complicated, pretty solid, expensive, attractive in an ugly German kind
of way, and, like an Audi, deep down it's a souped-up Volkswagen. I had
this radio for a day. I LOVED figuring out how it works, it was such a
challenge; and I just managed to do that in a day. The instruction book
(not booklet) is huge and poorly translated. If you speak German,
bleiben Sie beim deutschen Text. You can have a million stored
frequencies on this model: either 512, 1024, 1536, or 2048, depending
on how many memofiles (chips) you have stuck behind the little pannel
at the front. Five hundred-twelve is standard. The store I bought the
radio from (Atlantic Ham Radio in Toronto) gave me a free extra chip
with loads of preset frequencies on it. Everything was wonderful until
I realised a few things. You can't scan with the knob and hear
anything; and you can only seek for strong signals in FM. It is not
possible in AM, this isn't an oversight on my part. When you seek in AM
(which includes shortwave) it simply crawls along pausing every 5KHz
for two seconds. There is no method of scanning for signals. You have
to hear hours and hours of empty space. So basically this is a
direct-tune-only radio. I couldn't hack that because of my love of
scanning and stumbling across surprises. I like the unexpected in SW
listening. If this isn't a big deal for you, then the Satellit 700 may
be the perfect radio. It certainly is excellent in many ways. The
preset system is complicated, but logical (surprise surprise). On each
chip "memofile" there are 64 stations with 8 frequencies. If you have
your BBC frequencies on one memofile and you are in another, here's
what you have to do: (this is just to give you an idea of how
complicated it is) punch .2 (that's point-2), 47 (for your BBC page -
you have to remember this number), then advance (you can only flip
forward) through the eight frequencies and hope you don't accidentally
go past the right frequency. Another issue I had with this radio was
the acrobatics you had to go through to tunine by metre- band. To get
to the band is easy enough, you just type 49 then hit the band button,
but the radio doesn't put you at the beginning of the band so you can
start scanning. It puts you to the middle: specifically it tunes you
into the frequency in that band which it has on record as being the
'main' frequency of that band. There is no surprise to find out that
this is almost always a frequency which carries some German-speaking
programme. That's fine if you speak German. I do, and I listen to a lot
of German radio, but it is a bit inconvenitent when it comes to
checking out what is happening within a certain band. You can scan from
there of course, but there is no beep when you loop the range of the
band, and besides, you have to remember the frequency it started you
on, not the beginning of the band, if you want to know whether you have
scanned the entire band. Again, it may sound fussy, but it made a big
difference after a while. This is why it's important to spend a bit of
time with a radio before settling in to making it your best friend.
Sony ICF SW100
If you're into execu-toys, this is the radio for you. You can drool
over its tinyness, and play with the little leather case. It's a nice
radio, but the speaker is a little tinny. I have an ICF SW1-S, which is
the same size, but the audio on my (older) SW1 is much better. I grew
up on the SW1, so I am used to a tiny radio, but the SW100 is a few
notches tinier, and it's just difficult to use because of it. The
Realistic DX-380 is a little bigger, sounds better, is much easier to
use, doesn't offer SSB, and is $400 cheaper. You figure it out.
The other radios I examined were either lacking in features I wanted
(SSB, Synch, a fine tuning mode) or were just not that great. The best
one I think for a smaller model is the Sangean ATS-808 (aka Siemens
RK661, & Realistic DX-380). It has nice audio and a very nice feel:
it's very solid for its size and price. If you don't need SSB and
aren't too too fussy about chasing very weak signals, this is a really
nice little radio. If I had the money, I'd buy this one as a gift for
someone interested in shortwave. It's available under a few names. Get
the Realistic version, it's exactly the same radio, but it's cheaper
from Radio Shack.
I hope this has been a help to people looking for a radio. I'd be more
than happy to offer more comments on any of the details of the three
models I took home with me. Drop me a note at cfor...@netaccess.on.ca
--chris forrest, hamilton, ontario, canada
cfor...@netaccess.on.ca
-Knudsen,M.J.
SW-77 is hard to operate are way exaggerated.
I'd never even seen an SW77 until I unpacked one I bought
second-hand from another reader of this newsgroup. Took me less
than a minute to flip thru pages and punch up working frequencies.
(OK, so I'd read Chris' earlier posting about how the pages work,
but I didn't try to memorize it).
OTOH, I tried out a Grundig Sat-700 in a store. Played with all
the controls, did what I could in a steel building full of other
electronics generating interference. I never did figure out how
the presets worked! I got a couple stations up with the presets,
but couldn't explain what I'd done to get there.
I think the Sat700 is a great radio. And that the SW77 doesn't
perform as well *as a radio* as its schematic diagram implies that
it should (you wouldn't believe the great circuitry in there).
But I don't get the people (including Passport) who say the SW77
is for computer nerds, or words to that effect.
In fact, the SW77 is more like the user-friendly Mac interface --
see a menu of "station" names, punch the button under the name you
want. The Sat700 seems to be more UNIX/MSDOS -- you can get right
to the BBC *if* you know the right digits to push.
Also entering stations into the SW77 is easy, as long as you know
the rules and don't violate them.
Edward Gosfield
defense of the Grundig 700. I have been using one for a number of months
now, and i can say that programming new stations, punching up old ones,
etc. etc. are now practically reflexive. I am not a computer
expert/nerd/geek (i write this note on my only computer, a TI notebook)
but i am a firm believer in _reading the #&*^ manual_, which is how i have
learned to use the Grundig, various electron microscopes, medical
electronics, etc. There are things i sure don't like about the Grundig
(cheezy synch feature, with 10% audio distortion when engaged,according to
RNED review, unidirectional station scan within each 'page' of
frequencies) but it is not difficult to use.
One of the problems is the difference between initial impressions, and
long term use. These things are all a matter of taste, anyway.
have fun
Scooter709
how to operate a computer AND set the timer on my VCR, I couldn't for the
life of me figure out how to tune in a freq on the Grundig. I also bought
a SW77 used thru this newsgroup and have been very happy with it. Great
sensitivity, easy to scan and tune and not at all difficult to program
(once I realized that the presets started on page 11 instead of on page 1
where I figured they would be :-))
Carol
-Knudsen,M.J.
Edward Gosfield <gosf...@dolphin.upenn.edu> wrote:
>I've never handled or seen an ICF-SW77, but i must sluggishly leap to the
>defense of the Grundig 700. I have been using one for a number of months
>but i am a firm believer in _reading the #&*^ manual_, which is how i have
No argument there.
Most SW77 owners do indeed advise the RTFM (Read the )(*)(* Manual)
approach. Sure, it's fun to play with fresh out of the box, but
sooner or later you have to sit down and read thru the book.
>One of the problems is the difference between initial impressions, and
>long term use. These things are all a matter of taste, anyway.
How true! Many software applications that are easy for a beginner
to use (without reading the manual) are very slow to use once you
catch on -- that is, experience doesn't buy you much speed.
Other programs (like the Emacs editor) take a while to learn but
are lightning fast once you get good.
So far, I don't find the SW77's "operating system" to be slowing
me down now that I know it better. You do have to move your hand(s)
over three sets of buttons, tho.
I gather that on the Sat-700 you punch up memorized frequencies
entirely with the numeric keypad. If so, you don't have to move
your hands as much and could learn to do it in the dark.
So for an expert user, the Grundig may come out a little ahead.
I did find that the Grundig is normally in direct-entry mode, so
to punch in a known frequency, you just go with the digits, and
don't have to hit "AM" or "Direct" as on a Sony.
Both radios are fine once learned. But I wouldn't want to be
using one half the time and the other the rest of the time :-)
Edward Gosfield
: So far, I don't find the SW77's "operating system" to be slowing
: me down now that I know it better. You do have to move your hand(s)
: over three sets of buttons, tho.
: I gather that on the Sat-700 you punch up memorized frequencies
: entirely with the numeric keypad. If so, you don't have to move
: your hands as much and could learn to do it in the dark.
: So for an expert user, the Grundig may come out a little ahead.
I do use it in the dark, a lot. I'm not skilled enough to enter
frequencies directly in the dark, but i can enter 2 digit #s for my
favorite 'pages' of stations (e.g. 13 gets me to my 8 DW freqs, "3" gets
me BBC East Coast USA, etc. The keypad has a raised dot on "5" and the
function buttons are locatable by position. Once there i scroll forward
(only, grrrrrr..) to the freq that gives best reception.
: I did find that the Grundig is normally in direct-entry mode, so
: to punch in a known frequency, you just go with the digits, and
: don't have to hit "AM" or "Direct" as on a Sony.
on the other hand, if you hit the AM function button, you get the last
station you were on, hit again you get the last MW station, hit again the
last LW station, then back to last SW station. Next to that button, the FM
function button gets you the last FM station you were on.
But I wouldn't want to be : using one half the time and the other the rest
of the time :-)
maybe not, but i hope some day to find a cheap SW-55 and then i will find
out ;^}
ted
Roger Townsend
Nice report on Rigs etc.
I am looking for a small portable that will tune SSB, be selective
and sensitive enough to feed into a modem and into a laptop etc to
read packet etc. It would be nice to have an easy to use memory
system that can hold a station description ect.
Regards
Roger Townsend
VE3XVK
Bill Salopek
I've read your reviews of various radios with great interest. I currently own a Grundig Yacht
Boy 400 (very, very nice little radio). I'm looking to get a second radio. A bigger radio
with more features.
I currently have a Grundig 700 here at home (on a 30-day trial basis)...it's a real nice radio,
but I'm not so sure it's the right one for me. I suppose the alternative is the Sony 77.
I have a couple questions for you:
1) Is the 77 any smaller than the Grundig 700? Any easier to hold and operate?
2) How does the SOUND compare? The Grundig has a full, rich sound. How far behind is the
Sony?
3) How do the synch detectors compare? Apparently the Grundig's could be better.
I also like scanning, and have found, much to my surprise, that the Grundig doesn't have a SEEK
feature...disappointing.
I was able to buy the Grundig for $359 including shipping...a very good price...apparently the
prices have gone up recently because of the weakening dollar. The Sony is going to be about
$100 more? What's the best price you have seen?
Thanks...Bill
Steve Christensen
<buny...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
I am also evaluating the Grundig 700 vs. the Sony 77, and have a Grundig
at home on trial. I too am disappointed at the lack of a seek feature,
and that the sound is off while scanning the the tune knob. But I
actually plan to use mine on board a "yacht" (well, I would call it a 38'
sailboat), and am bothered by the fact that the Sony is kind of thin, and
seems as if it would be a little unstable on a shelf. The Grundig is
about an inch deeper, and feels quite stable. The Sony also lacks a
handle, and instead comes with a strap. The Grundig has a handle, and
would be much easier to move around. These may seem like silly reasons to
prefer one over the other, but as Chris says, some things will get to bug
you after awhile, and I just know trying to pick up the Sony by the strap
would be a hassel. The Grundig can also be powered directly from the 12
volt system of a car or boat without buying a special $25 adapter.
I will probably keep the Grundig, even if it isn't perfect.
Steve Christensen
Bill Salopek
You have valid reasons to choose the Grundig. In actuality, they are probably very close in
performance.
Good luck,
Bill
Max Moser
no extra cost. After a week, I returned to the Satellit for this reasons:
1. The Sony has much too little storage for frequencies. (160 vs 2048)
2. To recharge the batt. you have to remove them from the Sony, whereas
you can leave them in the Grundig. 1 charge lifetime in the Sony
(Baby-cells): 2 days, in the Grundig (Mono-cells): 2 weeks!
3. USW was very bad in the Sony, no RDS available, both was fine in the
Grundig.
Now the good properties of the SW 77:
Better SW receiver sensitivity, less complicated to handle.
Better Design (Except abovementioned points)
Larger display
cynth...@gmail.com
> Hi All,
> about any of those two? Also, are there much music on shortwave; or is it
> all news? Is there a FAQ out there? What is AIR-BAND and SSB? Please
> e-mail answer.
>
> Thank You,
> JB..
>
> ---------------------------------
> - Time heals; then it kills. -
> ---------------------------------
DhiaDuit
Michael Black
thread?
Jean isn't likely here naymore, virtually nobody from 1995 is. And over
the decades, most posters were only drive by posters anyway, they'd post
one question, and then be gone, sometimes never even posting a response to
the responses to their question. SO there is absolutely no sense in
replying to an almost 20 year old post, especially when it has nothing to
do with that old post.
On the other hand, you really havent' told us anything except what type of
radio it is. You haven't said if you bought it new, or what, or what
"doesnt' work.
Michael
Oregonian Haruspex
device, especially something that has radio capability.