The Greatest President In My Lifetime
CRUSH THE LEFT
him). May he rest in peace.
So long, Sir. We will continue your fight against the marxist left. And we will
win.
Llgpt
>From: crusht...@aol.combat (CRUSH THE LEFT)
>Date: 6/5/2004 8:12 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20040605211210...@mb-m28.aol.com>
into oblivion.
We don't have to win anything. That part of the cold war is over. Do you ever
read a newspaper? I thought not.
Les
Brenda Ann Dyer
"Llgpt" <ll...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040605211659...@mb-m06.aol.com...
Actually, Pope John Paul II and Lech Welesa's Solidarity Union had more to
do with the fall of the Soviet Union than anyone in the US did. Poland was
the first to fall, followed shortly by E. Germany.. both because the people
there developed the intestinal fortitude to stand up against their
oppressive governments.
dxAce
Brenda Ann Dyer wrote:
That's great... but there were indeed underlying reasons why they were able to
do so!
Steve
Holland, MI
Drake R7, R8 and R8B
http://www.iserv.net/~n8kdv/dxpage.htm
Diverd4777
- Thought what he ( or someone behind him did)
was to propose a " Starwars" missle defense system, and start work on it
Thinking it was aboout " First Strike" The Russians started working to defend
against it..
only It was a huge hoax !
- No real program, just dummy blueprints, hiring people to work in it's
outlines
and press releases.
Wounded & weakened from 10 years in Afghanistan, ( note ) The soviets spent
themselves into oblivion rearming against the Starwars Hoax ....
And the really big secret was WHAT A MESS the Soviet Union really was...
Dan
In article <c9trcu$rfv$1...@news1.kornet.net>, "Brenda Ann Dyer"
<bre...@shinbiro.com> writes:
>Subject: Re: The Greatest President In My Lifetime
>From: "Brenda Ann Dyer" <bre...@shinbiro.com>
>Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 11:09:40 +0900
Telamon
You are wrong about this. Reagan's action were the reason. He had the
vision and the will to make this happen.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
John Barnard
standing up to the Russians. Budapest in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968 come to
mind and it was a shame that the USA decided to abandon those countries and do
nothing. The Solidarity revolution was a Polish revolution which had NOTHING AT
ALL to do with Reagan or the USA. Brenda Ann quite rightly pointed out that the
Poles and the East Germans stood up to the Russians of their own accord. Poland,
out of all the Eastern European block, has always had the stones to fight back a
little and retain some measure of autonomy.
I've always liked Reagan but he sure as hell didn't have anything to do with the
Solidarity revolution.
Regards
John Barnard
John Barnard
concerning the fall of communism in East Germany.
Regards
John Barnard
Telamon
wrote:
> Go back and take a look at history, Telamon. Eastern Europeans have a
> history of standing up to the Russians. Budapest in 1956 and
> Czechoslovakia in 1968 come to mind and it was a shame that the USA
> decided to abandon those countries and do nothing. The Solidarity
> revolution was a Polish revolution which had NOTHING AT ALL to do
> with Reagan or the USA. Brenda Ann quite rightly pointed out that the
> Poles and the East Germans stood up to the Russians of their own
> accord. Poland, out of all the Eastern European block, has always had
> the stones to fight back a little and retain some measure of
> autonomy.
>
> I've always liked Reagan but he sure as hell didn't have anything to
> do with the Solidarity revolution.
Sorry go back and read it yourself. We outspent Russia in the arms race
bankrupting them. When Russia lost the arms race Gorby negotiated the
current state of affairs with Reagan. That's why things changed. The
Polish Solidarity was a help but not the reason. Besides Reagan gave aid
and assistance to the Solidarity union and other opposition groups in
eastern europe.
Neither you nor anyone else can pull this revisionist bullshit on me. I
saw this happen in real time.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040605/ap_on_re_eu/reagan_c
old_war_legacy_2
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Diverd4777
<no.t...@I.dont.want.your.spam> writes:
> Llgpt is right, the Soviet Union spent itself out of
>existence.
>
War in Afghanistan, ( against the CIA supported rebels ) Supporting Cuba, then
the arms race and troubles in
the Muslim strongholds ( Chechnia )..,.
- Pfft !
- Regan could have just played Golf & read Peggy Noonan speeches
Diverd4777
- Saw " Goodby Lenin":
- its an interesting peice about the fall of Communist East Germany,
with some comedy sub plot . . .
- and anyone who says the U.S is a Fachist state
( Even With Homeland Security . .! )
Should See this film ASAP..
Dan
In article <40C2B16C...@shaw.ca>, John Barnard <jf...@shaw.ca> writes:
>Subject: Re: The Greatest President In My Lifetime
>From: John Barnard <jf...@shaw.ca>
>Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 05:53:44 GMT
Stephen M.H. Lawrence
"Diverd4777" <diver...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040606075453...@mb-m14.aol.com...
I knew the worms would come crawling out, re-writing history.
Well, I guess if it makes you feel better....
73,
Steve Lawrence
KAØPMD
Burnsville, Minnesota
(NOTE: My email address has only one "dot."
You'll have to edit out the one between the "7"
and the "3" in my email address if you wish to
reply via email)
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.688 / Virus Database: 449 - Release Date: 5/18/04
Diverd4777
(Llgpt) writes:
>Subject: The Greatest President In My Lifetime
I mostly remember Iran Contra, arms for hostages
and how no one could recall.
Fixing an election rather than fixing a country..
the Beiruit Barracks Bombing
- the flawless timing of the Hostage Release
with Regan taking office...
- And the great speeches Peggy Noonan wrote that he recited..
LW
> Ronald Reagan. The man who defeated Soviet Communism (no wonder liberals hate
> him). May he rest in peace.
Both sides are producing some good points here. So it all started
when Reagan beat Carter in '80. If I recall, Bugs Bunny could have
beaten Carter that year. A few watch-words of the era were:
"Double digit inflation" and "Double digit interest rates". Add to
that the Iran hostage crisis.
Why the Democrats chose to run him again is a mystery, ain't it.
Telamon
> If you ever get the chance see "Good-bye, Lenin". It's a very good movie
> concerning the fall of communism in East Germany.
By all means continue getting your perspective from the movies while the
rest of us stick to reality.
The following from
http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=4983826
FORMER SOLIDARITY LEADER AND POLISH PRESIDENT LECH WALESA
"When I heard of President Reagan's death, as a Christian I prayed for
him. As a politician I recalled the important role he had played in
the overthrow of world communism.
"Somewhere at the turn of the 1980s a number of politicians and others
at different points on the globe began moving towards a single goal:
the overthrow of the murderous communist system that had the blood of
200 million people on its hands. Reagan was one of the world leaders
who made a major contribution to communism's collapse."
FORMER GERMAN CHANCELLOR HELMUT KOHL, who stood with
Reagan as he made a historic Cold War appeal at the Berlin Wall.
"His consistent championing of freedom contributed decisively to
overcoming the division of Europe and Germany. We Germans
have much to thank Ronald Reagan for."
FORMER SOVIET PRESIDENT MIKHAIL GORBACHEV
"I view Reagan as a great president," said Gorbachev, adding
that his dialogue with Reagan "kick-started the process which
ultimately put an end to the Cold War".
"I do not know how other statesmen would act in his place at the
time. Reagan, who was considered ultra-conservative, dared those
steps and that was his strength."
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Curmudgeon
So what'd you expect them to say on the record?
Did you expect that they would say something like.....
"He was a big friendly oaf who couldn't remember what he had for lunch two hours ago"?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
David
Reagan nurtured the Mujihadeen, including Osama. Reagan gace Saddam
the chemical weapons he used on the Kurds.
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/
Ronald Reagan did a lot of damage.
On 06 Jun 2004 01:12:10 GMT, crusht...@aol.combat (CRUSH THE
David
utmost secrecy, disregarding the Administration's public policy
prohibiting arms sales to nations supporting terrorism. He also chose
to forgo congressional notification under the National Security Act
and the Arms Export Control Act.2 Having bypassed accountability to
Congress, the President failed either to establish an effective system
of accountability within the Administration or to monitor the series
of activities he authorized.3 Working in a climate of extreme secrecy
and operating without accountability, National Security Adviser John
M. Poindexter, Lt. Col. Oliver L. North of the National Security
Council staff and others associated with the initiative invited
criminal acts including profiteering on the Iranian arms sales, the
diversion of some of those proceeds to aid the contras, destroying
documents, and lying to Congress to cover up their criminal
activities.
2 See discussion on ``The Iran Hostage Initiative, 1985-1986'' later
in this chapter.
3 In his written answers to interrogatories requested by Independent
Counsel and the Grand Jury, Reagan stated that he did not monitor the
details of the Iran arms sales and had no specific knowledge of such
key matters as North's role or Secord's role. The President said he
did not authorize any profits from the sale of arms to Iran and that
he was unaware that there were excess proceeds and that some of them
were diverted to aid the contras.
When the Iran initiative was exposed on November 3, 1986, the
President convened a series of meetings with his top national security
advisers and permitted the creation of a false account of the Iran
arms sales to be disseminated to members of Congress and the American
people.4 These false accounts denied the President's knowledge and
authorization of the initial sales from Israeli stocks of U.S.-made
TOW and HAWK missiles to Iran in August, September and November of
1985. Attorney General Edwin Meese III and others were concerned that
those sales violated the Arms Export Control Act and the National
Security Act of 1947.5 Previously withheld notes by participants in
the November 12 and November 24, 1986, meetings constituted evidence
of an effort to cover up the true facts of the President's
authorization of the 1985 Iran arms sales. But the discovery of the
notes by Independent Counsel came too late to investigate effectively
and to prosecute the false statements involved.6 The passage of time,
claims of dimmed recollections and the running of the statute of
limitations protected the underlying acts.
Curmudgeon
>Reagan is largely responsible for the mess we're in today.
>
>Reagan nurtured the Mujihadeen, including Osama. Reagan gace Saddam
>the chemical weapons he used on the Kurds.
>
>http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/
>
>Ronald Reagan did a lot of damage.
And just like Ronald the Republicans can't recall any of it.
Greatest President my ASS.
John Barnard
You wouldn't know reality if it bit you on your ass. The fact that you had to twist the intent of my words is proof enough. Please, feel free to show me where I stated that the movie should be taken as reality. Have you actually seen the movie? As Diverd4777 has pointed out "- its an interesting peice about the fall of Communist East Germany, with some comedy sub plot . . ."
I suggest that you read the following CIA document before crowing about the Ronald Reagan and the US undoing communism in Eastern Europe. Very shameful how the USA decided not to warn Solidarity, don't you think?
http://www.cia.gov/csi/books/poland/
Furthermore, the Poles had always been at odds with the Communists. I can damn well assure you that the Reagan and the gang had nothing to do with various uprisings in 1956, 1970 and 1976. The Poles brought about the revolution themselves to eventually free themselves. It wasn't the USA! Live with the fact!
Please, no more revisionist history from you. I don't care what you thought you saw in "real time" but a few of my Polish colleagues easily tell a story different from yours.
Regards
John Barnard
Diverd4777
writes:
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh
" Part XI
Concluding Observations
The underlying facts of Iran/contra are that, regardless of criminality,
President Reagan, the secretary of state, the secretary of defense, and the
director of central intelligence and their necessary assistants committed
themselves, however reluctantly, to two programs contrary to congressional
policy and contrary to national policy.
They skirted the law, some of them broke the law, and almost all of them tried
to cover up the President's willful activities. "
Bush Sr. Pardoned them all.
Bush Jr. who might have " Outed " a U.S. Intelligence agent;
Just hired a Lawyer..
longwave
You saw what you wanted to see. No single president should get the
credit for winning the arms race. We outspent the USSR for more than
forty years. Every president since Truman contributed to the ultimate
collapse of the USSR. Reagan happened to be president when the end came.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
Telamon
wrote:
> Telamon,
>
> You wouldn't know reality if it bit you on your ass.
Don't confuse where I'm at with where your head is at.
> The fact that you had to twist the intent of my words is proof
> enough. Please, feel free to show me where I stated that the movie
> should be taken as reality. Have you actually seen the movie? As
> Diverd4777 has pointed out "- its an interesting peice about the
> fall of Communist East Germany, with some comedy sub plot . . ."
Diverd4777 is blocked. I don't wast my time reading idiots.
I didn't twist your words or take them out of context.
> I suggest that you read the following CIA document before crowing about the
> Ronald Reagan and the US undoing communism in Eastern Europe. Very shameful
> how the USA decided not to warn Solidarity, don't you think?
>
> http://www.cia.gov/csi/books/poland/
>
> Furthermore, the Poles had always been at odds with the Communists. I
> can damn well assure you that the Reagan and the gang had nothing to
> do with various uprisings in 1956, 1970 and 1976. The Poles brought
> about the revolution themselves to eventually free themselves. It
> wasn't the USA! Live with the fact!
They never would have succeeded without Reagan's efforts to end
Communism. World leaders at the time agree with me and not with your
special version of reality.
> Please, no more revisionist history from you. I don't care what you thought
> you saw in "real time" but a few of my Polish colleagues easily tell a story
> different from yours.
I don't care what you think either if you spend your time agreeing with
worthless Trolls.
Pick your side, Telamon and Lech Walesa or you and Diverd4777.
Tough choice.
You apparently are just another moronic Troll like Diverd4777.
< Plonk >
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Telamon
longwave <long...@comlink.net> wrote:
How can you say that I saw what I wanted to see? No one knew how things
were going to turn out. Stinking Liberals were calling Reagan an out of
control cowboy "Ronald Ray Guns" because they though he would start WW3
confronting the Russians. Reagan built up the military and forced the
Russians into bankruptcy trying to keep up. The eastern europeans saw
their chance to throw off the yoke of communism with the Russians in
their weakened state.
Reagan didn't just "happen to be there." He had a sense of destiny and
a job to do that took guts facing down the Russians and the left wing
in this country like Kerry that just wanted to give up and negotiate
with the Russians from a weak position.
You are right that it did not start with Reagan but he did finnish it.
If Kennedy was not assassinated he might have done it but Johnson,
Nixon, Ford and Carter didn't do it. Clinton would not have done it
either.
Through will and conviction he challenged the Russians forcing them to
focus on us in the arms race. It was world class poker game and Reagan
didn't bluff. The Russians finally ran out of money with a economy that
could not keep up with ours. Weakened from the effort they gave up the
hold they had on eastern europe since WW2 and the cold war was
basically ended.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
RHF
Say what you will.
But that does not change the fact that anywhere from
2/3 to 3/4 of Americans in the last several years say:
That they "Liked" Ronald W Reagan as a person and thought
that he was a 'good' President and had respected him [.]
I know that this simple fact causes Liberal Democrats
to "See Red" and 'Galls' the Leftist Media Elite to speak
a few Kind-Words now at his passing.
God Blessing Be Upon the Soul of Ronald W Reagan
and Grant his Family and Friends Peace and Comfort
at the Loss of a Loved One - Amen ~ RHF
.
.
= = = David <ric...@knac.com> wrote in message
= = = news:<e6b7c05eoj24klb1r...@4ax.com>...
RHF
Say what you will.
But that does not change the fact that anywhere from
2/3 to 3/4 of Americans in the last several years say:
That they "Liked" Ronald W Reagan as a person and thought
that he was a 'good' President and had respected him [.]
I know that this simple fact causes Liberal Democrats
to "See Red" and 'Galls' the Leftist Media Elite to speak
a few Kind-Words now at his passing.
God Blessing Be Upon the Soul of Ronald W Reagan
and Grant his Family and Friends Peace and Comfort
at the Loss of a Loved One - Amen ~ RHF
.
.
= = = David <ric...@knac.com> wrote in message
= = = news:<srb7c0d7gvui9ot59...@4ax.com>...
RHF
Say what you will.
But that does not change the fact that anywhere from
2/3 to 3/4 of Americans in the last several years say:
That they "Liked" Ronald W Reagan as a person and thought
that he was a 'good' President and had respected him [.]
I know that this simple fact causes Liberal Democrats
to "See Red" and 'Galls' the Leftist Media Elite to speak
a few Kind-Words now at his passing.
God Blessing Be Upon the Soul of Ronald W Reagan
and Grant his Family and Friends Peace and Comfort
at the Loss of a Loved One - Amen ~ RHF
.
.
= = = curmudg@eon (Curmudgeon) wrote in message
= = = news:<40eead65....@news.curmudgeon.man>...
RHF
Say what you will.
But that does not change the fact that anywhere from
2/3 to 3/4 of Americans in the last several years say:
That they "Liked" Ronald W Reagan as a person and thought
that he was a 'good' President and had respected him [.]
I know that this simple fact causes Liberal Democrats
to "See Red" and 'Galls' the Leftist Media Elite to speak
a few Kind-Words now at his passing.
God Blessing Be Upon the Soul of Ronald W Reagan
and Grant his Family and Friends Peace and Comfort
at the Loss of a Loved One - Amen ~ RHF
.
.
= = = diver...@aol.com (Diverd4777) wrote in message
= = = news:<20040606075453...@mb-m14.aol.com>...
Curmudgeon Man
Pick your side?? What a maroon........
Lech Welesa? LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Have you ever spoken to the average Pole about Lech Welesa?
>
>Tough choice.
Not as tough as you may think.......
>
>You apparently are just another moronic Troll like Diverd4777.
>
>< Plonk >
I find that those who say < Plonk > actually don't. And those that claim they do probably do so because they can't stand the heat.
Who will you argue with when you have plonked everyone. <g>
I guess it's easier to call them trolls and plonk them then it is to admit you are out of arguements and might be wrong.
Curmudgeon Man
>Curmudgeon,
>
>Say what you will.
>
>But that does not change the fact that anywhere from
>2/3 to 3/4 of Americans in the last several years say:
>
>That they "Liked" Ronald W Reagan as a person and thought
>that he was a 'good' President and had respected him [.]
>
>I know that this simple fact causes Liberal Democrats
>to "See Red" and 'Galls' the Leftist Media Elite to speak
>a few Kind-Words now at his passing.
>
>God Blessing Be Upon the Soul of Ronald W Reagan
>and Grant his Family and Friends Peace and Comfort
>at the Loss of a Loved One - Amen ~ RHF
He was a bigger than life man with a quick warm smile and he made a great figurehead. His popularity was probably mostly due to his acting career.
But to say he was the Greatest President????
He had the city of Berkely gassed by helicopters in the 60's. I don't think there is anyone else that can make that claim. What a guy. LOL
Diverd4777
(- Just ask Jane Wyman )
He was a B Movie actor / Lifeguard who had a good speech writer;
Probably a decent human being, politics aside..
In article <ff3145e8.0406...@posting.google.com>,
David
inaccurate idea of what is really happening. This is the way they are
nurtured and trained from a very early age. Luckily, I am wired
differently and can see the machine.
I'm sure he was a very nice fellow, but the world was made a more
dangerous place under his watch and we are now dealing with his
mistakes.
RHF
If you had read your own Link: http://www.cia.gov/csi/books/poland/
then you would understand that the identified problem was the
"Mind-Set" of the US Intelligence Community. (They simply did not
'think' that the Polish Army would "Act" against their own people.)
These same type of "Mind-Set" Problem lead to 9/11.
{It Can't Happen Here.}
These same type of "Mind-Set" Problem applies to Iraqi Weapons
of Mass Destruction.
{Promoting the same message about Iraqi WMDs from 1990 to 2004.}
WHY DID ALL THIS HAPPEN ? One Man = Senator Frank Church (Idaho-Dem)
It was the Democrats lead by Frank Church that "Handicapped"
the US Intelligence Agencies that has resulted in many of our
Human Intelligence Failures that are still happening today.
NOTE: This is why the FBI and CIA are saying it will be 5 Years
before we have the Human Assets in place to have a fully function
Intelligence Operation again. Time to Recruit and Train the
'right people' and get them infiltrated and undercover for a
few years before they become effective.
FWIW: What makes the 'fabled' Mossad so great Human Intelligence Assets.
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/israel/mossad/
http://www.desert-voice.net/mosad.htm
THE 9/11 COMMISSION COVER-UP - "The Fix is In":
But the current 9/11 Commission will never mention Frank Church
or Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect
to Intelligence Activities. Because the 9/11 Commission would
have to "Point-the-Finger Right Back at Congress Itself [.]
HISTORY:
The Real Roots of the current Problems in the US Intelligence
Services began in 1975. In 1975, Senator Frank Church (Idaho-Dem)
became the Chairman of the Select Committee to Study Governmental
Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities. This committee
investigated alleged abuses of power by the Central Intelligence
Agency and the Federal Bureau of Intelligence.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAchurchF.htm
http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=C000388
NOTE: This occured under President Ford who replaced Nixon.
FWIW: It was President Jimmy Carter who really built the
"FireWall" between the FBI and CIA.
TBL: Every Congress from 1975 to "9/11" has underfunded the
Domestic Intelligence Services and continued to foster a Legal
'disconnect' between the FBI and CIA.
Final Report of the Select Committee to Study Governmental
Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities of the
United States Senate, 94th Congress, 2nd Session, 1976:
http://www.derechos.net/paulwolf/cointelpro/cointel.htm
IV. CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS
http://www.derechos.net/paulwolf/cointelpro/churchfinalreportIId.htm
Remember: Logic and Reality
- Can Only
- - Come Together
- - - In Our Minds
Now That Requires Thought !
- - - - H U M m m m m m m m
Just the Facts ~ RHF
.
.
= = = John Barnard <jf...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
= = = news:<40C3CAF3...@shaw.ca>...
.
dxAce
David wrote:
> Your average American lives in a big fantasy construct and has a very
> inaccurate idea of what is really happening. This is the way they are
> nurtured and trained from a very early age. Luckily, I am wired
> differently and can see the machine.
Yep, you Liberal's are just sooooo much smarter than anyone else.
Boggling!
RHF
"He had the city of Berkely gassed by helicopters in the 60's."
Check your facts he never did any to the 'city of Berkely'.
OBTW: Why do all of your posting have this included in the Reference Line:
<20040605211210...@mb-m28.aol.com> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
One Wonders ~ RHF
.
.
= = = cur...@eon.man (Curmudgeon Man) wrote in message
= = = news:<40f84aba....@news.curmudgeon.man>...
.
RHF
What now seems a long time ago.
I worked with an Old Man from Tennessee, who wore a small Wooden
Cross on a Red String around his neck. We were talking about a
Senior Manager who have died and who's Funeral we were attending.
What he told me was at times like these; we should Focus on the
'things' the would "Recommend" the Dead Man to God;
and put aside those things that were of a mere earthly concern.
Ronald W Reagan was a good California Governor and a good President.
But most of all, he was a Kind and Gentle Man, who was a Good
Husband and Father.
"God Blessing Be Upon the Soul of Ronald W Reagan and Grant his
Family and Friends Peace and Comfort at the Loss of a Loved One
- Amen ~ RHF"
.
.
= = = diver...@aol.com (Diverd4777) wrote in message
= = = news:<20040607071231...@mb-m22.aol.com>...
.
Diverd4777
(Curmudgeon Man) writes:
>He was a bigger than life man with a quick warm smile and he made a great
>figurehead. His popularity was probably mostly due to his acting career.
>
- Agree; an actor with a good speech writer... at the right time and the right
place
A Lifeguard in College,
All in all, probably not a bad guy;
>
>He had the city of Berkely gassed by helicopters in the 60's. I don't think
>there is anyone else that can make that claim. What a guy. LOL
>
- The Police herded ANYONE on the street; - bystanders, Postmen; Anyone
and arrested them; then went totally out of control...
had people crawl on their hands and knees
saying " we love the Blue Meanies"
( Yes, this was in The United States of America )
It was said, Reagn approved.
The fact that the Iran Hostages were released Just when he took office ..
and Everyone ( Bush included) said " Just Coincidence"
-No deals with Iran -
- And no one got punished for this still smears his image...
John Barnard
I did indeed read the article and please note the following quote "Various theories and judgments have since been put forth as to why, having the benefit of this intelligence, the US government made no demonstrable effort to warn Solidarity of the impending crackdown—and no attempt to deter the move". Intelligence was being passed to the US government from Polish General Staff, Colonel Ryszard Kuklinski whom I presume that the US government considered a credible source of information.
You are quite correct in identifying the "mind-set" issue as being a very real part of the problem. However, that still doesn't excuse the fact that the US government was in possession of intelligence from the Colonel. I quote from the article "In addition, Kuklinski himself, with support from CIA, has published a detailed account of his knowledge of the Polish regime’s martial law planning and preparation. CIA also has cleared descriptions of the timing and substance of much of this information – including descriptions by former DCI Robert Gates and by the author of this study, who was engaged in the analysis and the reporting on the situation during most of the period". In other words, the US government did have a first hand account of what the Polish government was planning to do to Solidarity!
Thanks for the URL's concerning the Mossad. And I truly hope that the CIA and FBI can get their acts together in well under that 5 year period.
Regards
John Barnard
Brenda Ann Dyer
"Diverd4777" <diver...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040607210511...@mb-m11.aol.com...
I don't remember Berkeley, since I wasn't living in CA at the time, but I
remember Reagan on TV clearly saying that all the Vietnam war protesters
should be lined up against a wall and shot. Not in the America I was raised
in..
John Barnard
Telamon wrote:
In article <40C3CAF3...@shaw.ca>, John Barnard <jf...@shaw.ca>
wrote:> Telamon,
>
> You wouldn't know reality if it bit you on your ass.Don't confuse where I'm at with where your head is at.
> The fact that you had to twist the intent of my words is proof
> enough. Please, feel free to show me where I stated that the movie
> should be taken as reality. Have you actually seen the movie? As
> Diverd4777 has pointed out "- its an interesting peice about the
> fall of Communist East Germany, with some comedy sub plot . . .
Diverd4777 is blocked. I don't wast my time reading idiots.
I didn't twist your words or take them out of context.
You did take my words out of context with the following statement: "By all means continue getting your perspective from the movies while the rest of us stick to reality". At no point in time did I say that the movie was a resemblance to reality.
stuff snipped
They never would have succeeded without Reagan's efforts to end
Communism. World leaders at the time agree with me and not with your
special version of reality.
> Please, no more revisionist history from you. I don't care what you thought
> you saw in "real time" but a few of my Polish colleagues easily tell a story
> different from yours.I don't care what you think either if you spend your time agreeing with
worthless Trolls.
Worthless trolls? Those ladies spent the better part of their lives living
under the Communist government in Poland. And I have no question that they
know a hell of a lot more than you about the subject and what happened
at the Gdansk shipyards than you ever will in your world of make-believe.
You are one sorry sad sack of sh*t!
Pick your side, Telamon and Lech Walesa or you and Diverd4777.
Telamon and Lech Walesa? Thanks for breaking me up laughing. Truly delusional. There are meds for that type of thing!
Good health and good DX to you.
John Barnard
RHF
> Your average American lives in a big fantasy construct and
> has a very inaccurate idea of what is really happening.
DAVID,
This is the Mind-Set of the Liberal "Democrat" ELITIST:
- Who Know That They Know It All !
- They are therefore are Oh So Superior to the common man
{the average American Citizen}.
- They look with distain on the avarage American Citizen.
- But it is the common man who is the strength and vitality of America.
It is the 'average' American Citizen who VOTES that cause these
Liberal "Democrat" ELITIST their bigest problem, they do NOT
'think' like them and do NOT "Vote" for them.
> This is the way they are nurtured and trained from a very early age.
The simply reflect the Values of their Society and Culture,
for the are Americans and Love 'their' Country.
> Luckily, I am wired differently and can see the machine.
Yes the Minds of the Liberal "Democrat" ELITISTs are wired differently.
~ RHF
.
.
Diverd4777
<chupa...@operamail.com> writes:
>
>What about the betrayal of his fellow actors in the SAG
>when he snitched them out to the HUAC?
>
- Point !!
he was enamored of the left, until they tried to bully him;
serious intimidation I recall
< Bad Move; But that's how they used to work>
he never liked anything but right center after that..
Diverd4777
<bre...@shinbiro.com> writes:
>
>I don't remember Berkeley, since I wasn't living in CA at the time, but I
>remember Reagan on TV clearly saying that all the Vietnam war protesters
>should be lined up against a wall and shot. Not in the America I was raised
>in..
>
& WAY too close to Kent State..; where people WERE shot...
Just like protesters were shot in Tienamin Square in Red China..
- and . I recall, popular history was all patched up to make
the dead students the agressors.
A bad, bad time in Amerian History
Diverd4777
rhf-new...@pacbell.net (RHF) writes:
>
>> Luckily, I am wired differently and can see the machine.
>
>Yes the Minds of the Liberal "Democrat" ELITISTs are wired differently.
>
>~ RHF
RHF..
- If YOU can see the machine;
- Then YOUR a Liberal "Democrat" ELITIST
( - Sorry- )
Curmudgeon
Where did he say he was smarter? All he said was that he sees things in a different way. If he appears smarter than you to you it is probably because
you are one of those average Americans he was talking about.
>
>Boggling!
Only to you Stevie. Try not to think about it too much. Your thought capabilities are obviously limited.
The only thing not boggling to you is that SPNAKING I had Supernews give you right? <g> It still stings, admit it Stevie.
Nothing like a trip to the woodshed to separate the men(me) from the boys(you and your alter ego Mikey). <g>
Bill Hennessy
answer. He talked about smaller government. Almost sounded like a
Libertarin. But, he did not walk the walk.
RHF
= = = news:<20040607215851...@mb-m15.aol.com>...
DiverD,
Ah... "The Machine" !
Sounds like a Job for the Anti-Terminator.
But then in the sequel . . .
The 'original' Terminator became the Anti-Terminator.
I am getting confused...
Starting to sound like "New Speak".
Good is BAD. -&- Bad is GOOD.
Once of the underlying Themes of the Terminator Movies was that
our 'common' HUMANITY would in the End "Overcome" the Machine.
NOT the Elite, for "The Elite" were the 'true' Creators-of-the-Machine.
I remain a most average & common man - No Batteries Required :o) ~ RHF
.
RHF
FO&A,
The identification of Communist Party Members and Spy Cells
within the Hollywood Community and the Movie Industry was the
DUTY of Every American Citizen Who Loved their Country and
wanted to Stop the Communist. These same Communist who
supported the USSR and Stalin against their own country and
wanted the Violent Overthrow of the US Government.
Ronald W. Reagan 'did' the "Right Thing" as an American Citizen.
Now Go Do... The Right Thing ~ RHF
.
longwave
>
> In article <40C3FABF...@comlink.net>,
> longwave <long...@comlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Telamon wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <40C2AEFD...@shaw.ca>, John Barnard <jf...@shaw.ca>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Go back and take a look at history, Telamon. Eastern Europeans have a
> > > > history of standing up to the Russians. Budapest in 1956 and
> > > > Czechoslovakia in 1968 come to mind and it was a shame that the USA
> > > > decided to abandon those countries and do nothing. The Solidarity
> > > > revolution was a Polish revolution which had NOTHING AT ALL to do
> > > > with Reagan or the USA. Brenda Ann quite rightly pointed out that the
> > > > Poles and the East Germans stood up to the Russians of their own
> > > > accord. Poland, out of all the Eastern European block, has always had
> > > > the stones to fight back a little and retain some measure of
> > > > autonomy.
> > > >
> > > > I've always liked Reagan but he sure as hell didn't have anything to
> > > > do with the Solidarity revolution.
> > >
> > > Sorry go back and read it yourself. We outspent Russia in the arms race
> > > bankrupting them. When Russia lost the arms race Gorby negotiated the
> > > current state of affairs with Reagan. That's why things changed. The
> > > Polish Solidarity was a help but not the reason. Besides Reagan gave aid
> > > and assistance to the Solidarity union and other opposition groups in
> > > eastern europe.
> > >
> > > Neither you nor anyone else can pull this revisionist bullshit on me. I
> > > saw this happen in real time.
> >
> > You saw what you wanted to see. No single president should get the
> > credit for winning the arms race. We outspent the USSR for more than
> > forty years. Every president since Truman contributed to the ultimate
> > collapse of the USSR. Reagan happened to be president when the end came.
>
> How can you say that I saw what I wanted to see? No one knew how things
> were going to turn out. Stinking Liberals were calling Reagan an out of
> control cowboy "Ronald Ray Guns" because they though he would start WW3
> confronting the Russians. Reagan built up the military and forced the
> Russians into bankruptcy trying to keep up. The eastern europeans saw
> their chance to throw off the yoke of communism with the Russians in
> their weakened state.
I meant you see it now how you want to see it. There was never any
guarantee that confronting the Russians would not start WW3. Reagan was
fortunate to have a counterpart in the Soviet Union (Gorbechev) who was
willing to negotiate honestly. If it had been a hard liner like Stalin,
he would have laughed in Reagan's face, no matter how much we spent on
defense.
>
> Reagan didn't just "happen to be there." He had a sense of destiny and
> a job to do that took guts facing down the Russians and the left wing
> in this country like Kerry that just wanted to give up and negotiate
> with the Russians from a weak position.
>
> You are right that it did not start with Reagan but he did finnish it.
> If Kennedy was not assassinated he might have done it but Johnson,
> Nixon, Ford and Carter didn't do it. Clinton would not have done it
> either.
All of those presidents continued the nation's commitment to stand up
against communism but they couldn't have caused the collapse of the USSR
during their presidency because the Russians were still too strong to be
bankrupted by an increase in our defense budget. Reagan came along at a
time when the USSR was experiencing serious domestic problems both
economic and political, mainly caused by the war in Afghanistan, which
turned out to be their 'Vietnam'.
>
> Through will and conviction he challenged the Russians forcing them to
> focus on us in the arms race. It was world class poker game and Reagan
> didn't bluff. The Russians finally ran out of money with a economy that
> could not keep up with ours. Weakened from the effort they gave up the
> hold they had on eastern europe since WW2 and the cold war was
> basically ended.
The Russian's finally ran out of money after decades of the cold war,
not just the Reagan years.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
RHF
= = = news:<20040607215239...@mb-m10.aol.com>...
DiverD,
You compare Kent State with four killed and thirteen wounded
that was an unplanned reaction and failure by Ohio National
Guard {Civilian} Soldiers; to Tian An Min Square where the
Chinese brought in 'outside' Regular Army Troops of the PLA
with Tanks and Killed Several Hundred and Wounded and
Imprisoned Thousands is just totally Absurd and Meaningless.
KENT STATE INFO:
http://www.spectacle.org/595/kent.html
http://members.aol.com/nrbooks/chronol.htm
http://hnn.us/articles/4525.html
TIAN AN MEN SQUARE INFO:
http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/tiananmen/
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3505641
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB16/
~ RHF
.
Brenda Ann Dyer
"RHF" <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:ff3145e8.0406...@posting.google.com...
> = = = diver...@aol.com (Diverd4777) wrote in message
> = = = news:<20040607215239...@mb-m10.aol.com>...
> > In article <ca31ak$sj9$1...@news1.kornet.net>, "Brenda Ann Dyer"
> > <bre...@shinbiro.com> writes:
> >
> > >
> > >I don't remember Berkeley, since I wasn't living in CA at the time, but
I
> > >remember Reagan on TV clearly saying that all the Vietnam war
protesters
> > >should be lined up against a wall and shot. Not in the America I was
raised
> > >in..
> > >
> > & WAY too close to Kent State..; where people WERE shot...
> > Just like protesters were shot in Tienamin Square in Red China..
> >
> > - and . I recall, popular history was all patched up to make
> > the dead students the agressors.
> >
> > A bad, bad time in Amerian History
>
> DiverD,
>
> You compare Kent State with four killed and thirteen wounded
> that was an unplanned reaction and failure by Ohio National
> Guard {Civilian} Soldiers; to Tian An Min Square where the
> Chinese brought in 'outside' Regular Army Troops of the PLA
> with Tanks and Killed Several Hundred and Wounded and
> Imprisoned Thousands is just totally Absurd and Meaningless.
The killing of civilians by military personnel should not be minimized.
Numbers, while significant, are not the sole basis on which to judge whether
an act is wrong. Would you say that one murderer only killed one person, so
his act is not as bad as someone who killed ten? They are both the same...
The Ohio National Gaurd soldiers, while on duty, are not civilian, they are
military. Ask those NG soldiers serving now in Afghanistan and Iraq.
dxAce
Curmudgeon wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 12:46:59 -0400, dxAce <n8...@nospam.iserved.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >David wrote:
> >
> >> Your average American lives in a big fantasy construct and has a very
> >> inaccurate idea of what is really happening. This is the way they are
> >> nurtured and trained from a very early age. Luckily, I am wired
> >> differently and can see the machine.
> >
> >Yep, you Liberal's are just sooooo much smarter than anyone else.
>
> Where did he say he was smarter?
He didn't, 'tard. I was making an observation. You do understand that, don't you, 'tard?
David
I don't if I'm smarter than you. But I did learn to observe
objectively in High School from a really excellent old-school
journalism teacher.
If you watch TV for the news, you are brainwashed and should not be
allowed to vote.
On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 12:46:59 -0400, dxAce <n8...@nospam.iserved.net>
wrote:
>
>
Curmudgeon
And you did understand this, didn't you?
If he appears smarter than you to you it is probably because you are one of those average Americans he was talking about.
Try not to think about it too much Stevie. Your thought capabilities are obviously limited.
dxAce
Curmudgeon wrote:
And you just keep on doing what you do best, not thinking at all!
See ya, 'tard.
mrhangster
"dxAce" <n8...@nospam.iserved.net> wrote in message
news:40C612EA...@nospam.iserved.net...
dxAce
mrhangster wrote:
> Where has Bryant gone?
My guess is he's on holiday before the summer session starts at his school.
Curmudgeon
>Where has Bryant gone?
After enduring weeks of off topic spam posted by the entities known as Steve Lare and Michael Bryant several complaints were sent to Stevie's service
provider by several individuals in this newsgroup. The next day both Mikey and Stevie mysteriously stopped spamming the group. Steve posted a bunch of
test messages as N8KDV to make sure his posting ability was still intact as did Mikey but the spam stopped. Stevie has since resumed posting but he
now is much more respectful toward the users of this group because he knows that he will lose his internet access if he so much as posts anything that
remotely resembles spam. Mikey, on the other hand never resumed spamming the group and stopped posting all together The general consensus is that
Michael Bryant and Steve Lare were one in the same person. Steve knows that the masquerade is over and doesn't want any more problems so he has
retired the Michael Bryant character.
I am keeping an eye on Lare and if he steps out of line he will get another SPNAKING.
Ya, you betcha. LOLOL
Curmudgeon
dxAce
Curmudgeon wrote:
Up your ass, cocksucker!
My service might just be watching you, 'tard!
dxAce
dxAce wrote:
How was that for some 'respect' 'tard?
Curmudgeon
>The previous message was brought to you by the Village Idiot, Steve Lare. Proving
>once again that stupid is as stupid does.
>
>
><g>
>
No need to rub his nose in it. The poor imbecile is probably just realizing that he was set up.
Try not to think about it too much Stevie. Your thought capabilities are obviously limited.
SPPPPPNNNNNNAAAAAAAKKKKK
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Telamon
longwave <long...@comlink.net> wrote:
I see things the way they are not how I want to see them no matter how
strongly I feel about something. My emotions do not influence my
internal view of reality to the point that I do not recognize the facts
of a situation.
The discussion now departs from the actual past but I would have to
speculate that the outcome of Reagans efforts would remain unchanged if
a hard liner like Stalin were the Soviet premier at the time because
their economy could not keep up with ours. The Russians would fail and
their economy collapse regardless of who was in charge.
> > Reagan didn't just "happen to be there." He had a sense of destiny and
> > a job to do that took guts facing down the Russians and the left wing
> > in this country like Kerry that just wanted to give up and negotiate
> > with the Russians from a weak position.
> >
> > You are right that it did not start with Reagan but he did finnish it.
> > If Kennedy was not assassinated he might have done it but Johnson,
> > Nixon, Ford and Carter didn't do it. Clinton would not have done it
> > either.
>
> All of those presidents continued the nation's commitment to stand up
> against communism but they couldn't have caused the collapse of the USSR
> during their presidency because the Russians were still too strong to be
> bankrupted by an increase in our defense budget. Reagan came along at a
> time when the USSR was experiencing serious domestic problems both
> economic and political, mainly caused by the war in Afghanistan, which
> turned out to be their 'Vietnam'.
> >
> > Through will and conviction he challenged the Russians forcing them to
> > focus on us in the arms race. It was world class poker game and Reagan
> > didn't bluff. The Russians finally ran out of money with a economy that
> > could not keep up with ours. Weakened from the effort they gave up the
> > hold they had on eastern europe since WW2 and the cold war was
> > basically ended.
>
> The Russian's finally ran out of money after decades of the cold war,
> not just the Reagan years.
Let me put words in your mouth and say that the other presidents or
someone else elected in Reagan's place would have accomplished the same
thing he did if elected to his term and I believe you to be wrong.
Someone else would not have done what he did because they do not have
the optimism, conviction and just plain guts it took to face down an
evil empire that had thousands of ballistic missiles pointed at us and
issue a ultimatum to them that they must acquiesce to a verifiable
nuclear reduction treaty or face an escalation that they could not
afford.
There is no higher stakes poker game than that and we all know who
blinked first.
Reagan faced great odds in his presidency and navigated this country
through many great perils with an optimism and conviction that this is
the greatest nation on earth and by the grace of God will preserver;
thrive even, in the face of adversity.
Reagan is a one of a kind. I have missed hearing from him this last
decade and now he is gone forever. You are not likely to come across
the sense of humor he had in any other politician. Not likely that you
will ever have another president be such a father figure to this
country who knows what he wants and how to get it driven by a deep
sense of faith and belief in the principles that this country was
founded on. He was solid as a rock and a true conservative.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
a.d.danilecki
[cut]
> > I've always liked Reagan but he sure as hell didn't have anything to
> > do with the Solidarity revolution.
>
> Sorry go back and read it yourself. We outspent Russia in the arms race
> bankrupting them. When Russia lost the arms race Gorby negotiated the
> current state of affairs with Reagan. That's why things changed. The
> Polish Solidarity was a help but not the reason. Besides Reagan gave aid
> and assistance to the Solidarity union and other opposition groups in
> eastern europe.
Actually the funny thing is that both of you are right. CIA with help
of Vaticano bank did sepnt enormous sum of money in order to help
Solidarity. However, nobody has any idea what happened to this money.
Solidarity leaders usually say that they never received any real help,
and there is BIG suspicion
that most of that help disappeared during the operation and only tiny
sum finally reached people needing it.
Saying that, i must say that many in Poland are now honouring the
president Reagan. Not that he singlehandly won Cold War (the pope +
Lech Walesa and few other people could disagree) but he was on the
greatest factors in speeding the USSR collapse.
MnMikew
"Curmudgeon" <cur...@eon.man> wrote in message
news:41072b4c....@news.curmudgeon.man...
> On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 17:06:16 -0400, "mrhangster"
Kinda new here arent ya? Not very bright either.
RHF
U.S. National - AP via YAHHO! News
Fri Jun 11,10:34 PM ET
"I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will
always eventually triumph. And there's purpose and worth to each
and every life." - Ronald W. Reagan
* The burial and memorial site is located on the southwestern
end of the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, which was built
on a hilltop that offers panoramic views of a farm valley and
the distant Pacific Ocean.
"The journey has not been just my own, It seems I have been guided
by a force much larger than myself, a force made up of ideas and
beliefs about what this country is and what it could be."
- Ronald W. Reagan
* The casket was to be buried west of the curved wall facing
the Pacific Ocean.
* The memorial site is open to visitors to the 100-acre
presidential library and museum.
~ RHF
.
.
= = = rhf-new...@pacbell.net (RHF) wrote in message
= = = news:<ff3145e8.04060...@posting.google.com>...
Telamon
rhf-new...@pacbell.net (RHF) wrote:
> "Reagan Chose Hilltop Burial Site Himself" U.S. National - AP via
> YAHHO! News Fri Jun 11,10:34 PM ET
>
> "I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always
> eventually triumph. And there's purpose and worth to each and every
> life." - Ronald W. Reagan
>
> * The burial and memorial site is located on the southwestern end of
> the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, which was built on a hilltop
> that offers panoramic views of a farm valley and the distant Pacific
> Ocean.
>
> "The journey has not been just my own, It seems I have been guided by
> a force much larger than myself, a force made up of ideas and beliefs
> about what this country is and what it could be." - Ronald W. Reagan
>
> * The casket was to be buried west of the curved wall facing the
> Pacific Ocean.
>
> * The memorial site is open to visitors to the 100-acre presidential
> library and museum.
When he came back yesterday for burial Ventura county came to a
standstill.
Work emptied out and something happened that never happened before in
my memory and that is the freeways stopped. People got out of their
cars to watch the funeral procession pass by. People standing on the
overpass, by the side of the road or anywhere they could get a look at
the procession.
It was an amazing display of affection for Reagan that people would
spontaneously do this.
I plan on visiting his museum and burial site next weekend.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Dwight Stewart
> Ronald Reagan. The man who defeated
> Soviet Communism (no wonder liberals
> hate him). May he rest in peace. (snip)
First of all, Reagan didn't defeat the USSR. Instead, he severely weakened
our relationship with our European allies, and that was the real key to the
events that followed. His endless rhetoric, his decision to place even more
nuclear weapons in Europe, his attack on Libya, his rhetorical threats
towards France following that attack on Libia, and a number of other
questionable actions, convinced many in Europe the Russians were not all
that bad in comparison. As a result, it was the efforts by European leaders
to reach out to the Russians, such as decisions by France and Germany to
help Russia build an oil pipeline to Europe and England's decision to
increase trade with Russia, that truly caused Russian leaders to rethink
their positions.
As others have pointed out, there were certainly other factors influencing
Russia's decision (declining economy. political unrest, and so on), but
these alone would not have, and had not in the past, caused Russia to
change. The key ingredient, missing in the past, was a shift in European
thinking. And that shift was caused by a widespread rejection of Reagan's
war mongering attitudes - attitudes that were a throw-back to the early days
of the cold war and, like Reagan himself, very much out of place in the
world at that time.
Stewart
Telamon
"Dwight Stewart" <stew...@NOearthlinkSPAM.net> wrote:
> > Ronald Reagan. The man who defeated
> > Soviet Communism (no wonder liberals
> > hate him). May he rest in peace. (snip)
>
>
> First of all, Reagan didn't defeat the USSR.
< Snip >
If anyone is looking for proof of that an alternate universe exists here
it is.
The best that can be said about you is that at least you had the decency
to wait until he was buried to denigrate him.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Dwight Stewart
"Telamon" wrote:
>
> (snip) The best that can be said
> about you is that at least you had
> the decency to wait until he was
> buried to denigrate him.
The truth doesn't denigrate. I was there at the time to see that shift in
European thinking. And, by leaving this country not long before Reagan took
office and returning not long after he left, I was also able to more clearly
see what eight years of his presidency had done to this country. I returned
to see homeless people in the streets of even small towns (something I had
rarely seen outside the larger cities before), violent crime like I had
never seen before, stagnated wages for workers (most were earning no more
than when I left), sharply increased prices for most everything, shocking
corporate greed, jobs moving overseas, a growing immigration problem, a
declining military, declining political freedoms, a country growing more
politically divided then I had ever seen it before in my lifetime, and so
on. In my opinion, anyone who actually thinks Reagan was good for this
country doesn't really give a damn about this country. The same could
probably be said of Bush Sr, Clinton, and Bush Jr. Each have taken this
country to a new low.
Stewart
Pete
"-=jd=-" <jd77...@HATpostmark.net> wrote in message
news:Xns950B76049FD2D...@63.218.45.22...
>
> You weren't the only person who witnessed events unfolding. Fortunately,
> there were many others who had a much better vantage point to see certain
> things happening. Things you were obviously blind to.
>
> Regardless of your opinion, intent or political leanings, nothing you can
> say or do can overcome all of the positive accomplishments and the
> enduring legacy of the man.
>
> Of course, even though glowing esteem for the man crosses all political
> boundaries, I guess there will always be the fringe minority clamoring for
> attention by either fabrication and/or distortion & spin in their attempts
> to re-write history as they would prefer it
>
> -=jd=-
> --
It was a time of right-wing lunacy, a time of selling out the country to
multinationals, a time of the first feeble-minded president in our lifetime,
the beginning of extreme right wing ideology taking control of the
Republican party, which had until then been a fairly reasonable,
middle-of-the-road party. The US and other countries are still reeping what
was sowed by the Reaganites in the 80's. Above all, it was a time when form
prevailed over substance, and the American population to a large extent fell
for it.
Many Americans still believe the lies about less governement, which, of
course, is a euphamism for less government for the multinationals, but more
government for YOU.
Pete
RHF
= = = news:<DubAc.3064$bs4....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
DS,
So you are one "Democrat Party Apologist" and Revisionist for
the Anti-American One World Vision of the OWLES.
Remember that about 90% of American Citizens relatives turned
their BackSides on Europe and other 'foreign' lands for the
Promise and Dream of America.
I Believe in the Promise and Dream of America and the Global
Vision of President Ronald W Reagan for the USofA.
Proud to Say: I Am An American ~ RHF
.
RHF
DS,
Sounds like you should have stayed "Over There !"
As for Me - I Am Glad to be 'right here' in America ~ RHF
.
James Nipper
As the majority of Americans will agree, I think Pres Reagan was one of the
best, if not the very best, President that America has ever had.
On the other hand, I can see why so many liberals would hate him. The reason
for this is that the liberals oppose all of the decent pro-American things
that he stood for. One can't hate America and the ideals of this country
without hating Pres Reagan.
--James--
Dwight Stewart
>
> You weren't the only person who
> witnessed events unfolding. Fortunately,
> there were many others who had a
> much better vantage point to see certain
> things happening. Things you were
I'm not blind to anything. For example, I was able to see you didn't
dispute anything I said. Instead, you chose to ignore it all in favor of
your own illusions about the man.
> (snip) Of course, even though glowing
> esteem for the man crosses all political
> boundaries, (snip)
Polite words, said by the opposition solely to respect his passing, is not
glowing esteem. Of course, considering the only ones here offering any
resemblance of esteem towards Reagan is his long-time supporters, you should
already know that. But, again, you chose to ignore that too in favor of your
own illusions about the man.
Stewart
Dwight Stewart
"RHF" wrote:
>
> Sounds like you should have stayed
> "Over There !"
>
> As for Me - I Am Glad to be 'right
> here' in America ~ RHF
I'm also glad to be 'right here' in America. However, my employment with
this government took me out of the country many times over the last few
decades. And, since it gave me a relatively unique perspective of events
around the world, I'm glad I had that opportunity to travel and work
overseas for extended periods.
Stewart
Pete
"James Nipper" <jni...@nospam.fdn.com> wrote in message
news:jM6dnSnkOfy...@comcast.com...
We often wonder how Hitler managed to get into power and convince so many
otherwise perfectly normal Germans. Well, this is exactly the kind of
thinking that can do that, ie. if someone voices a different opinion, it's
anti-American. That false path has been followed by many countries and
civilizations before.
Pete
Dwight Stewart
>
> So you are one "Democrat Party
> Apologist" and Revisionist for the
> Anti-American One World Vision
> of the OWLES.
My friend without a name, perhaps you didn't notice my earlier comment
about Clinton in this discussion. I don't blindly follow any particular
party's dogma. As I said before, both major political parties share some
responsibility for the sad direction this country is now heading in. Perhaps
you're simply too young to remember what this country was like before
Reagan, and how much this country has declined in so many ways since (partly
because of Reagan and partly because of the idiots in the White House
since).
> Remember that about 90% of
> American Citizens relatives turned
> their BackSides on Europe and other
> 'foreign' lands for the Promise and
> Dream of America.
And your point is? None of that changes my assessment of the political
changes in Europe during the 80's.
> I Believe in the Promise and Dream
> of America and the Global Vision of
> President Ronald W Reagan for the
> USofA.
>
> Proud to Say: I Am An American ~ RHF
You obviously have no idea what it is to be an American. Blind allegiance
to a single political party is certainly not it. And neither is holding a
man up like a god to worship. If you want a clue, try reading some of the
writings of our forefathers. They were clearly concerned with the best
interests of all Americans (liberals and conservatives, rich and poor, and
so on), not just the biased interests of themselves and a few others. In
reality, your views, on the surface, seem more akin to the Nazi followers of
Adolf Hitler. I'm honestly sorry if that offends you, but it's true from my
perspective.
Stewart
Dwight Stewart
"Pete" wrote:
>
> We often wonder how Hitler managed
> to get into power and convince so many
> otherwise perfectly normal Germans.
> Well, this is exactly the kind of thinking
> that can do that, ie. if someone voices a
> different opinion, it's anti-American. That
> false path has been followed by many
> countries and civilizations before.
Exactly, Pete. It's fanaticism devoid of all rational thought. In all
honesty, I suspect if George Bush announced tomorrow that he was disbanding
Congress and assuming all control of this country, the vast majority of
Republicans would support him, would openly argue (even right here in this
newsgroup) in defense of that, and would be willing, without hesitation, to
go to war and kill Americans who opposed his takeover. Indeed, something
very much like this may actually be the future of America - perhaps not with
Bush, but a very real possibility with some Republican leader in the not so
distant future.
Stewart
Dwight Stewart
"-=jd=-" wrote:
>
> See? Spin can work both ways too!
But the truth of it doesn't.
Stewart
RHF
DS,
The Truth is all to apparent by your postings
that you simply like "Bad Mouthing" the USofA.
Again 'take-a-hike' to EuroLand, and Leave America
for those Americans "Who Love Their Country".
God Bless America ~ RHF
.
Dwight Stewart
"RHF" wrote:
>
> The Truth is all to apparent by your
> postings that you simply like "Bad
No, the truth is that you just can't see, or don't want to see, that I'm
not "bad mouthing" the USA, but rather what has been done to it by recent
occupants of the White House.
By the way, the word is "too," not "to." Take care.
Stewart
Telamon
"Dwight Stewart" <stew...@NOearthlinkSPAM.net> wrote:
I can only agree with your first sentence "The truth doesn't
denigrate."
Unfortunately for you and your last post that you sniped the contents
of the world leaders of that time and current time do not agree with
what you call truth.
My best guess as to why you don't try to defend your last post because
it is indefensible and that this post is just a continuation of a
baseless rant.
Again as with the last post by you I would argue that except for a very
small group of far left wing looneys you are pretty much by yourself.
Don't forget the second election of Reagan for president carried 48 out
of 50 states. Don't forget the massive outpouring of affection for this
man upon his death. Don't forget most of what you pose as factual is
just BS.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Dwight Stewart
>
> (snip) My best guess as to why you don't
> try to defend your last post because it is
Since you didn't contradict anything said in that first post, there is
nothing to defend.
> (snip) Don't forget the second election of
> Reagan for president carried 48 out of 50
> states. (snip)
In an election where only about half of the eligible voters in this
country even participated.
> Don't forget the massive outpouring of affection
> for this man upon his death.
From his supporters? Certainly. But, for the rest, you're confusing
politeness with affection. Or do you truly believe most non-Republicans are
just gushing with "affection for this man?"
> (snip) Don't forget most of what you pose as
> factual is just BS.
Most? Well at least you do admit some of what I said is factual. In
reality, it all is - even if that is difficult for you to admit to. Take
care, Telamon. Perhaps we'll have another discussion in this newsgroup
sometime in the future.
Stewart
RHF
= = = news:<WGsAc.262$hTk...@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...
PETE,
"if someone voices a different opinion, it's anti-American."
NO - If someone voices an anti-american opinion, It Is Anti-American [.]
~ RHF
.
RHF
"Just ask Jane Wyman"
Since you Begged the Question... Here is the Answer :o)
"America has lost a great president and a great,
kind and gentle man." - Jane Wyman
"First Wife Lauds Reagan"
Long Beach Press Telegram
Friday, June 11, 2004
http://www.presstelegram.com/Stories/0,1413,204~21474~2208126,00.html
PALM SPRINGS Jane Wyman, the first wife of Ronald Reagan,
has released a statement through a friend praising the
nation's 40th president.
r e s p e c t ~ RHF
.
.
= = = diver...@aol.com (Diverd4777) wrote in message
= = = news:<20040607071231...@mb-m22.aol.com>...
> Yeah, as a person he was probably an OK Guy;
>
> (- Just ask Jane Wyman )
>
> He was a B Movie actor / Lifeguard who had a good speech writer;
>
> Probably a decent human being, politics aside..
>
>
>
> In article <ff3145e8.0406...@posting.google.com>,
> rhf-new...@pacbell.net (RHF) writes:
>
> >
> >DiverD,
> >
> >Say what you will.
> >
> >But that does not change the fact that anywhere from
> >2/3 to 3/4 of Americans in the last several years say:
> >
> >That they "Liked" Ronald W Reagan as a person and thought
> >that he was a 'good' President and had respected him [.]
> >
Telamon
"Dwight Stewart" <stew...@NOearthlinkSPAM.net> wrote:
< Snip >
> Most? Well at least you do admit some of what I said is factual. In
> reality, it all is - even if that is difficult for you to admit to.
> Take care, Telamon. Perhaps we'll have another discussion in this
> newsgroup sometime in the future.
What's the point Dwight. You can't have a substantive discussion if
basic fasts of a situation are not agree on. That you inhabit a
parallel universe to the one I live in is all I take away from this
"discussion."
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Dwight Stewart
>
> Exactly, Pete. It's fanaticism devoid of
> all rational thought. In all honesty, I suspect
> if George Bush announced tomorrow that
> he was disbanding Congress and assuming
> all control of this country, the vast majority
> of Republicans would support him, would
> openly argue (even right here in this
> newsgroup) in defense of that, and would
> be willing, without hesitation, to go to war
> and kill Americans who opposed his
> takeover. Indeed, something very much like
> this may actually be the future of America -
> perhaps not with Bush, but a very real
> possibility with some Republican leader in
> the not so distant future.
Notice it has been more than a week since I posted the above and not a
single Republican in this newsgroup has denied any possibility of this, said
it was a bad idea, or objected in any way.
Stewart
Mark S. Holden
The idea is so silly we didn't think we needed to.
William EHart 2
wrote:
Doesn't seem silly to me. It will happen. It's chilling.