Sangean ATS-909x question
rkhalona
I am wondering if you are hearing any (audible) difference when you
switch between the wide and narrow bandwidth settings in AM mode.
Thanks for your answers.
Ramon Khalona
Wimpie
Hello Ramon,
I have one at hand (about 8 years old I believe) and changing the
narrow/wide switch changes the RF bandwidth on LW, AM and SW. Changing
to narrow, reduces the "HF" part of the audio spectrum (so the tone
changes).
You may check the operation when listening to a relative weak station
adjacent to a stronger one. When changing to wide, you may experience
more interference from the stronger station.
With kind regards,
Wim
PA3DJS
www.tetech.nl
Please remove abc in case of using PM
rkhalona
Thanks Wim. Are you talking about the 909? I am referring to the
909x, which was released within the last six months or so.
Regards,
RK
Wimpie
Hello Ramon,
Whoops, I was talking about the 909, I missed the "x".
Wimpie
Hello Ramon,
Are you sure you have the channel spacing (9/10 kHz) set correctly for
AM broadcast band. If you are living in Europe, it should be 9 kHz
mostly. When a station isn't tuned correctly, changing the narrow/
wide switch has little to no effect.
rkhalona
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks Wim. I live in the USA and the channel spacing is set at 10
KHz.
RK
Wimpie
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks Wim. I live in the USA and the channel spacing is set at 10
> KHz.
>
> RK
Hello Ramon,
This will definitely improve reception quality. Does this solve the
narrow/wide problem also?
rkhalona
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Thanks Wim. I live in the USA and the channel spacing is set at 10
> > KHz.
>
> > RK
>
> Hello Ramon,
>
> This will definitely improve reception quality. Does this solve the
> narrow/wide problem also?
>
> With kind regards,
>
> Wim
>
> - Show quoted text -
No. The problem I am experiencing is that the narrow/wide bandwidth
switch does not cause any difference in audio quality and I want to
know if other users are experiencing the same. Thanks Wim.
RK
Wimpie
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Thanks Wim. I live in the USA and the channel spacing is set at 10
> > > KHz.
>
> > > RK
>
> > Hello Ramon,
>
> > This will definitely improve reception quality. Does this solve the
> > narrow/wide problem also?
>
> > With kind regards,
>
> > Wim
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> No. The problem I am experiencing is that the narrow/wide bandwidth
> switch does not cause any difference in audio quality and I want to
> know if other users are experiencing the same. Thanks Wim.
>
> RK
Hello Ramon,
I hope some other people will add their experience. In my opinion, the
audio quality should change, so there may be something wrong with the
unit. If it is on wide, you will definitely experience adjacent
channel/frequency interference problems, especially when listening to
crowded parts of the SW spectrum.
hallic...@collins.net
Here's a short review of the 909X although no mention of the bandwidth
switch:
http://radiojayallen.com/sangean-ats-909x/
Jim(MI)
RHF
"RK",
Go Here for the Sangean Company webpage
for the Sangean ATS-909X AM/FM/SW Receiver
http://www.sangean.com/products/products_main.asp?pid=71&pan=9&um=3
-has-down-loads-for-
* Manual PDF
-note- Read Page 32
"Switch Setting" : AM Narrrow / Wide
-says- The Filter Switch works N<>W in the AM Mode
-and- Is Always Narrow in SSB Mode
* Specification PDF
* Flyer PDF
Call/Contact Sangean USA and ask then the
Question as to the Band-Widths of the AM
Mode Wide and Narrow Filters in the Sangean
ATS-909X AM/FM/SW Receiver
http://www.sangean.com/contact_us/contact_us.asp?um=5
INFO : Phone + eMail
+ On-Line 'Web-Request' Form
.
.
-alternative-
Radio Labs Support may be able to answer
the Question as to the Band-Widths of the AM
Mode Wide and Narrow Filters in the Sangean
ATS-909X AM/FM/SW Receiver
http://www.radiolabs.com/support/
.
.
cuh...@webtv.net
rkhalona
> On Jun 23, 10:31 am, rkhalona <rkhal...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Any owners of this new radio here?
> > I am wondering if you are hearing any (audible) difference when you
> > switch between the wide and narrow bandwidth settings in AM mode.
>
> > Thanks for your answers.
>
> > Ramon Khalona
>
> "RK",
>
> Go Here for the Sangean Company webpage
> -has-down-loads-for-
>
> * Manual PDF
> -note- Read Page 32
> "Switch Setting" : AM Narrrow / Wide
> -says- The Filter Switch works N<>W in the AM Mode
> -and- Is Always Narrow in SSB Mode
>
> * Specification PDF
>
> * Flyer PDF
>
> Call/Contact Sangean USA and ask then the
> Question as to the Band-Widths of the AM
> Mode Wide and Narrow Filters in the Sangean
> INFO : Phone + eMail
> + On-Line 'Web-Request' Form
> .
> .
> -alternative-
> Radio Labs Support may be able to answer
> the Question as to the Band-Widths of the AM
> Mode Wide and Narrow Filters in the Sangean
> ATS-909XAM/FM/SW Receiverhttp://www.radiolabs.com/support/
> .
> .
Thanks RHF. I am looking for other users' experience. My unit comes
from Radio Labs, with the filter upgrade (their so-called, "Clearmod"
modification).
The difference when I switch from AM wide to narrow is almost always
inaudible and, for all practical purposes, does not make any
difference without detuning the radio
in slow mode. I wonder if owners of the stock radio experience the
same.
(The Radio Labs people think this is the way the radio is supposed to
work, which I found puzzling and surprising)
RK
cuh...@webtv.net
AM/FM/TV and Weather.I sent them back to C Crane because they were Crap!
cuhulin
dave
>
> Thanks RHF. I am looking for other users' experience. My unit comes
> from Radio Labs, with the filter upgrade (their so-called, "Clearmod"
> modification).
> The difference when I switch from AM wide to narrow is almost always
> inaudible and, for all practical purposes, does not make any
> difference without detuning the radio
> in slow mode. I wonder if owners of the stock radio experience the
> same.
> (The Radio Labs people think this is the way the radio is supposed to
> work, which I found puzzling and surprising)
>
> RK
This may be more of a function of the AM station's transmitter. Try
tuning off by 1 KHz so you get some sideband splatter. Can you hear
cymbals and sibilance, or do you hear crackling and popping? If it's the
latter, the station isn't transmitting any highs. See if the bandwidth
selector makes a difference while off tuned a little.
arthr...@webtv.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
Is there any reason they did not furnish any actual numbers/
specifications ? Their website mentions something like a 'processor
filter'(?) . This sounds sort of evasive as far as I'm concerned . And
even Sangean doesn't have much information about the static or dynamic
bandwih measurements . They must be hiding something .
RHF
RK,
If you have a Very W-I-D-E 'Wide' IF Filter +8 kHz
and a not-so-wide 'Wide' IF Filter ~4 kHz you may
NOT hear or detect too much difference between the
two when it comes to AM-Mode Radio Reception.
However, If you have a Standard 'Wide' IF Filter
~5 kHz and a Narrow IF Filter -3 kHz you may well
Hear a/r Detect some real difference between the
two when it comes to AM-Mode Radio Reception.
What "kHz" and "Shape Factor" Rad-Labs 'claim'
for their Wide and Narrow IF Filter in the
Mod'ed Sangean ATS-909X Radio ?
Sangean ATS 909X - Modified for Clarity
http://www.radiolabs.com/products/receivers/ats-909x-mod.php
iwtk ~ RHF
.
.
rkhalona
Hi Dave,
I have tried that and, as I said above, without detuning you would
never know there is a different filter in there, but one should hear a
difference when you switch
from wide to narrow, without detuning. According to Radio Labs, they
have used filter bandwidths of 4.5 KHz and 2 KHz for wide and narrow.
A 2 KHz filter should cripple audio fidelity noticeably (and reduce
interference), but I am hearing no difference. I have had two other
people listen independently and they say the same, so it is not just
my ears. I have now read a couple of reviews elsewhere that indicate
the bandwidth switch does very little (including the guys at Universal
Radio, whom I telephoned), so it looks like a flaw this radio has,
including the modified version.
RK
rkhalona
>
> iwtk ~ RHF
> .
> .- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi RHF,
Radio Labs claims they have used 4.5 KHz for wide and 2 KHz for
narrow. As I said in my response to Dave, one should be able to hear
the difference between these pretty easily (for reference, my Drake
SW8 has 6, 4 and 2.4 KHz bandwidths, and one can hear the difference
between all three pretty well, especially in going from the middle to
the lowest bandwidth because the narrowest filter muffles the audio
distinctly). I just wanted to hear about other users' experience,
wether they have the stock or modified radio.
Thanks for your reply.
RK
sctvguy1
I have now read a couple of reviews elsewhere that indicate the
> bandwidth switch does very little (including the guys at Universal
> Radio, whom I telephoned), so it looks like a flaw this radio has,
> including the modified version.
>
> RK
I think that you need to get your money returned.
arthr...@webtv.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
You can try this simple test I just thought of . A) Tune to a
loud,stable AM-modulated station . B) Turn the SSB on . C) Play with
USB/LSB setting . D) Detune the received frequency slightly ( no more
than 1-2 KHz) ,so you hear the beat sound increasing or decrease in
the pitch . E) Play with the wide/narrow setting . F) If the filters
are really there- -the change must be very obvious .
RHF
Tune to a local AM/MW Radio Station that
features Wide Ranging Audio "Music" and
try your Filters. ~ RHF
.
Wimpie
Hello,
In my "old" 909, the Wide/Narrow setting only has effect when in AM
mode (not LSB/USB). It always uses the narrow filter when in SSB.
arthr...@webtv.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yep, most receivers work like that . However, 909X potentially may
have some serious bugs in software/hardware .
rkhalona
I have now done more extensive testing, mostly in the MW band with
lots of different content and interference conditions. There is NO
way that they have 4.5 and 2 KHz filters in there. One can hear the
slightest difference in some cases, but not enough for the narrow
setting to be effective in rejecting interference.
This radio is going back. Too bad because apart from this problem,
the faulty keyboard (the keys sometimes do not respond to pressing
them) and the relatively poor sensitivity (I live the West Coast, weak
signal area, so I am sure it performs better in stronger signal areas
like the East Coast or in Europe), it is a cool portable suitable for
travel. I would give it at most 3 starts out of 5. Sangean has some
work to do.
Thanks for all the responses.
RK
rkhalona
Thanks for the suggestion. I tried it and there is no difference.
Big problem. This baby is going back.
RK
RHF
? The Sangean ATS-909'x' is a DSP Radio; and
http://www.grove-ent.com/909x.html
maybe the DSP processing function greatly
'negates' the apparent IF Filter operation. !
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/portable/2909.html
.
Can you Switch 'Off' the "DSP Decoder IC" and
listen to the Radio in 'Analog' Mode ?
http://www.ccrane.com/radios/shortwave-radios/sangean-ats909X-shortwave-radio.aspx
.
Have you first talked to RadLabs about this
problem ? -before- Returning the Radio ?
http://www.radiolabs.com/products/receivers/ats-909x-mod.php
.
.
rkhalona
> maybe the DSP processing function greatly
> .
> Can you Switch 'Off' the "DSP Decoder IC" and
> .
> Have you first talked to RadLabs about this
> problem ? -before- Returning the Radio ?http://www.radiolabs.com/products/receivers/ats-909x-mod.php
> .- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The user has no control over when the decoder IC is engaged. Yes, I
have talked with Radio Labs. They think this is normal operation, but
I don't see how it can be.
RK
RHF
Then as you say... Back It Goes !
.
rkhalona
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi there again,
The reason this test does not work with this radio is that in SSB
mode, the radio is automatically set to the narrow bandwidth and the
switch becomes
inoperable, hence there is no difference. However, when you tune to a
strong station in AM mode on narrow and then detune by several KHz so
that the station is inaudible and you switch to wide, the station is
audible again. This suggests the switch is working, but the
bandwidths used are not that different to make for an audible
difference. Several users of the stock radio have reported similar
behavior (i.e., not much difference between wide and narrow
bandwidths).
Thanks again for your suggestion.
RK
Wimpie
Hello Ramon,
Really strange, as with the "old" 909, the difference is clearly
noticable, even with the tone setting on news.
They Sangean guys probalby did something weird, as normally you work
on "wide" only in case of interference from an adjacent station or
noise you switch to the narrow setting to get a readable signal, but
with reduced audio quality.
I checked it on several stations. Now (00:00h UTC), Radio Havana
reaches Netherlands on an indoor antenna (6000 kHz). Did you test it
also on a weak (noisy) station?
Maybe you can contact a radio amateur to do some measurements on the
radio to find out what is the root cause for the behavior.
With kind regards,
Wim
PA3DJS
www.tetech.nl
Please remove abc first in case of PM
RHF
> El 06-07-11 1:03, rkhalona escribió:
? Maybe that is part of the Problem; the
"Tone" Switch on the Right Side of the
Radio needs to be set a "Music"; for you
to Hear an Audio 'difference' between the
Wide and Narrow IF Filters !
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/portable/2909rs.html
.
.
rkhalona
That's not it. I always keep the radio on the "music" tone setting,
as this gives the best audio fidelity.
RK
RHF
Asked and Answered.
arthr...@webtv.net
So when in SSB mode a 'narrow' filter is functional ? Or it is just
like the one in AM ?
rkhalona
>
> - Show quoted text -
When you are in SSB mode, only the narrow filter is operational.
RK
arthr...@webtv.net
I see . If that is the case,then the AM mode has a problem switching
from 'Wide'-to-'Narrow' filter.May be Radiolabs (or the actual
manufacturer somewhere in PRC) had a QC issue . Who knows . New
product , new questions . . .
rkhalona
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think this was a design choice and it is described in the user's
manual (I am told the Sangean 909 works the same way). On most radios
I have, the bandwidth selection is independent of listening mode. The
Drake SW8 and R8B are exemplary in this regard, but they were much
more expensive rigs.
RK
arthr...@webtv.net
Some receivers had the option to operate in 'narrow filter' while in
AM mode . Some only work in the 'narrow' while switched to SSB or CW .
For instance-- Palstar-30 can be switched to wide/narrow in any
mode , user selectable . Some radios CANNOT do that . Unfortunately ,
these rigs may require some 'internal surgical operation' --that is if
it can be done at all .