How to listen military signal? which freq. what modulation
Radiomatt
You'll hear aircraft crossing Atlantic talking to Thule (Greenland) and Pease
AFB, among others. Sit on frequency and wait.
Top secret
Do NOT share this frequency with anyone
Steve H
Giant Talk group and are published in many monitoring guides. Also on 8992,
13201 (13200?),15106, 17976
The encrypted EAM and "Skyking" messages do give one the shivers - is it an
exercise or is some city about to glow in the dark, is it a recall or a "go"
message?
"Radiomatt" <radi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000720050159...@ng-df1.aol.com...
Tim Tyler
GIANT TALK (SHORT ORDER, ALPHA/BRAVO...) network channel!
But I think 'RadioMatt' was trying to be funny in his response.
--
Tim Tyler
tty...@mich.com
http://www.mich.com/~ttyler/
Steve H
"Tim Tyler" <tty...@mich.com> wrote in message
news:39788F18...@mich.com...
Steve H
From "Shortwave Directory", 5th edition, 1989, Grove Press -- page 3,
discussing (the now reorganized) SAC
----------------------------------------
As part of the HF failsafe system ("Giant Talk"), routine Foxtrot
("Skyking") mission status broadcasts as made throughout each hour. Should
the United States be involved in armed conflict, the go-code would be
transmitted via this network.
Primary "Skyking" ... nine transmitter sites maintain the net: Andrews,
Clark, Croughtn, Elmendorf, Incirlik, McClellan, Offut, Thule, and Yakota...
Sample EAM: " Quebec Tango 4 5 0, standby; Quebec Tango 4 5 0 standby;
message follows (series of letter/number groups) I say again (same series)
Sandwich Out"
Sample Skyking message: "Skyking, Skyking, do not answer, Oscar, Charlie,
Golf, time 53, authentication Sierra Juliet; I say again (repeats) ." These
are the go-code or cancellation messages for nuclear strike... If they are
repeated three times, monitor 6761 and 11243.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you see Tim, 11175 IS a Giant Talk network channel - allowing for base
closures and unit redesignations in the last ten years. And the frequencies
I list are also active in the network except 13201 is now moved to 13200 (as
I implied in my original post). If you program these frequencies into a
series of memory channels on your receiver so you can rapidly scan them
during an EAM, you'll hear the same transmission occuring simultaneously on
all channels (at least on 11175, 13200, and 15016 (I see now a typo in my
original post transposed the "0" and "1") and I've monitored an EAM as I'm
typing so I know it's accurate).
Tim Tyler
>
> Amplification on source of my previous response
> From "Shortwave Directory", 5th edition, 1989, Grove Press -- page 3,
> discussing (the now reorganized) SAC
I hate to disappoint you, but just because the source is Grove (more
specifically, Vanhorn) doesn't mean it was accurate when it was
published, let
alone now, but that's a separate issue... Also, in my plane of
existence, the
current year is 2000. 1989 was 11 years ago. Are we communicating
through a
disruption of the space-time continuom, or were you actually trying to
dispute
the assertion I made a few days ago with info that was published in a
monitoring
hobbyist publication 11 years ago?
> ----------------------------------------
> As part of the HF failsafe system ("Giant Talk"),
Technically, better wording would have been "...as part of SAC's
Positive Control' system..."
> routine Foxtrot
> ("Skyking") mission status broadcasts
Foxtrot & 'Sky King' aren't/weren't synonymous...
> as made throughout each hour. Should
> the United States be involved in armed conflict, the go-code would be
> transmitted via this network.
Only in & relating to a specific type of "armed conflict" & it'd be
the Force Direction Messages &/or Emergency War Order related info for
'ALPHA' (as in "Alpha Monitor," which some people who actually DID
monitor
GIANT TALK will remember) -- certain parts of the SIOP force.
> Primary "Skyking" ... nine transmitter sites maintain the net: Andrews,
> Clark, Croughtn, Elmendorf, Incirlik, McClellan, Offut, Thule, and
> Yakota...
You or the book misspelled several of those base names. For example,
it is Yokota... Other sites were also part of the GIANT TALK network,
for example
March AFB, which officially deactivated it's GIANT TALK setup in June of
1983.
> Sample EAM: " Quebec Tango 4 5 0, standby; Quebec Tango 4 5 0 standby;
> message follows (series of letter/number groups) I say again (same series)
> Sandwich Out"
>
> Sample Skyking message: "Skyking, Skyking, do not answer, Oscar, Charlie,
> Golf, time 53, authentication Sierra Juliet; I say again (repeats) ." These
> are the go-code or cancellation messages for nuclear strike.
They're a lot more (& less) than "the go-code or cancellation messages
for nuclear strike" [sic]. Some of those messages are designed to
simply
test the Alert system & nuclear surety, let alone put out random traffic
occasionally to try to foil traffic analysis.
>.. If they are
> repeated three times, monitor 6761 and 11243.
THOSE freqs were certainly GIANT TALK network channels...
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> So you see Tim, 11175 IS a Giant Talk network channel - allowing for base
Nope, all I see is that you're one of many that gives a little too
much
respect to what you see in print, AND you have poor reading
comprehension and/or
tried to bluff your way out of being caught wrong.
You quoted a bit from page 3 of the 5th Edition Grove Shortwave
Directory. I
have that same book in my archives. and it does NOT show 11176 in the
'Skyking
Broadcasts' freq list on page 4, but it does show it under the USAF GCCS
freq
listing on page 7, Steve...
11175 (nee 11176) isn't & wasn't a GIANT TALK channel. Off the top of
my head, networks it has been
associated with over the decades are GLOBECOM, Airways, GCCS, and
currently GHFS.
As SAC started to switch from the big B-36s & B-29s which had room
for a dedicated
radio operator (who used CW), it became apparent that it'd be important
to switch to
HF voice as the primary mode for strategic command control
communications. SAC's
commander in chief in this era was General Curtis LeMay, who was a ham
(W6EZV, et al.) & thus familiar
with the relatively new mode called Single Side Band. LeMay borrowed a
SSB-capable radio
from his pal Art Collins, and found it to be much more efficient than
AM. In 1956,
LeMay decided to perform an operational test -- he had Collins install a
SSB transmitter
& receiver in a C-97 & sent it off to the Pacific region. It was able
to maintain comms with a
HF radio at Offutt AFB's MARS station with better reliability & clarity
than the AF's AM network.
Despite HF voice radios just being fielded to SAC's strategic
aircraft, General LeMay was
able to steer SAC (& the rest of the USAF) over to SSB, after using AF
MARS SSB-capable sites
for phone patches, etc. The rapid transformation from his vision to a
SAC HF/SSB C2 Network was
called SHORT ORDER, and the SHORT ORDER network became operational in
March of 1960 (though
IOC was quicker...), with key stations at Offutt, and SAC's Numbered Air
Force HQs -- March AFB CA,
Barksdale AFB LA, and Westover AFB MA. Other ground stations were set
up as part of the FAST TALK
subsystem -- they provided some comms support to SAC assets overseas,
individual SAC bases, and
the new ICBM facilities.
In 1966, SHORT ORDER & FAST TALK were reorganized into SAC HF/SSB
System, which had two
primary components -- ALPHA NET for as the high-power C2 link with SAC
aircraft, and BRAVO NET for the
lower-power, regional (FAST TALK...) connectivity with SAC missile sites
& misc. comm services for
SAC bases. It was during this phase that the radio frequencies received
some of the channel designators
many of us 'old timers' can still recall, for example, 11243kHz USB
being *ALPHA* One.
Finally in January of 1976, another restructuring took place, which
resulted in the GIANT TALK Network.
It still supported all SAC forces (including U-2s & SR-71s), but the
emphasis was for SAC's SIOP
elements. By the 1980s, SAC ICBM Missile Alert Facilities reduced their
emphasis on HF/SSB due to enough
redundancy from hardwired, VLF (SLFCS) & UHF (I don't suppose you've
heard of GIANT STAR, Steve...) voice &
record-mode comms systems, but the Minuteman Squadron Command Post
Missile Alert Facility would monitor
Giant Talk using either a soft (permanent) HF antenna or under some
circumstances, would raise one of several
hardened HF antennas normally stowed below-ground).
During some exercises, I used to hear the missile sites checking-in &
authenticating with their Squadron or
Wing CPs (or one of the Post Attack Command & Control aircraft) on
11494USB.
Quoting from my copy of Rockwell International Collins Communications
Systems Division 'US Air Force Scope Signal III worldwide
high frequency single sideband radio system' Application Summary dated
December
of 1982:
*******************
Scope Signal Phase III is a HF communication network providing the
USAF
Strategic Air Command (SAC) Command and Control of globally deployed
deterrent forces. A replacement for the SAC Giant Talk Network, the
network consists of three CONUS stations, 6 overseas stations, each
containing 9 levels of HF/SSB equipment, a training facility, and
ALERT Panels at three designated Command Posts.
*******************
Note that when written, GIANT TALK had NOT been phased out yet, and it
wasn't for
years. Also, SCOPE SIGNAL III wasn't a initially utilized as a
"communications network,"
it was a program to geographically consolidate & upgrade the
equipment/capabilities of
several independent long-haul HF networks -- GIANT TALK,
MYSTIC STAR, COMMANDO ESCORT, & Airways/GCCS... Kinda making some
central & regional
dispatch facilities, but with each still having different comms nets
within.
Quoting from a copy of USAF Fact Sheet 85-6, SAC COMMUNICATIONS
(January 1986):
***************
HIGH FREQUENCY SINGLE SIDEBAND RADIO SYSTEM (Giant Talk)
This radio system provides the means for positive control of the SAC
airborne
force. Its prime function is transmission of emergency action messages
to SAC
aircraft launched under positive control. "Giant Talk" also provides
positive
control communications for day-to-day control of aircraft reconnaissance
operations. The system consists of 12 stations worldwide and is
accessible
from the SAC and numbered air force command posts, and other selected
locations.
"Giant Talk" is an effective and reliable system, readily responsive
to the
requirement for positive control. An ongoing upgrade program answers the
continued effectiveness and reliability of this system.
****************
Non-SAC USAF ground/air HF communications roughly paralleled SAC's
over the decades,
with the establishment of ground stations providing mission flight
following, command &
control, and emergency services to the various other USAF aircraft that
had HF, but weren't
tasked to SAC -- MATS/MAC/AMC aircraft, TAC C-130s, EC-121s, (& the
fighter/interceptors with
HF), etc. Like SAC's organic HF/SSB system, the AFCS/AFCC HF/SSB system
underwent various
changes & new names over the decades: Global Communications (GLOBECOM),
Airways & Air Communications
Service, Global Command & Control System, and most recently, Global High
Frequency System.
Even SAC aircraft would use the this network to pass some traffic not
essential to their SAC mission.
This AF network used HF frequencies just like SAC's HF/SSB system did,
and sometimes, the two separate
networks had channels just a few kHz apart (for example, 11246USB &
11243USB). For many decades, this
non-SAC network had 11176USB as a channel, and a few years ago it became
11175kHz.
SAC's 'GIANT TALK' network was consolidated site-wise with the GCCS
in the '80s under the SCOPE
[System Capable Of Planned Expansion] SIGNAL III, and 'Giant Talk'
Network was absorbed into the Global
High Frequency System in mid 1992 -- in other words, the GIANT TALK
network is gone, and has been for
8 years, Steve. Eventually, the Global High Frequency System -- a USAF
network which supports DOD &
on a non-interference basis, other US gov't agencies & NATO allies, will
be phased out & replaced by
the SCOPE COMMAND network, which consolidates many DOD high-power ground
sites around the world &
includes Automatic Link Establishment/Link Quality Analysis & allows for
radio-wire integration (i.e.
direct-dial phone patches), with provisions for frequency hopping &
secure voice. SCOPE COMMAND
implementation started off with Air Mobility Command assets & is
spreading throughout the rest of the
DOD community that uses High Frequency radio for long-haul command
control & asset following.
> closures and unit redesignations in the last ten years. And the frequencies
> I list are also active in the network except 13201 is now moved to 13200 (as
> I implied in my original post). If you program these frequencies into a
> series of memory channels on your receiver so you can rapidly scan them
> during an EAM, you'll hear the same transmission occuring simultaneously on
> all channels (at least on 11175, 13200, and 15016 (I see now a typo in my
> original post transposed the "0" and "1") and I've monitored an EAM as I'm
> typing so I know it's accurate).
Splendid, but 11175(6) isn't/wasn't a GIANT TALK channel, Steve. You
were
wrong to begin with, but now that you're using a Vanhorn source of info,
you're a lot more wrong! ;)
If you find something that you're really interested in (for example,
strategic communications networks), in encourage you to do your own
research instead of relying on the 'expertise' of some of these guys
that write columns for the hobbyist magazines -- especially if their
topic is in regards to something like military communications.
In writing this rebuttal to you, I utilized a couple sources to check
my memory (in addition to the sources already listed, and listing
sources is
another thing you'll rarely find in your beloved 'Shortwave Directory'
book
or even more contemporary ones such at that nitwit Steve Douglass):
'Once Again, a Ham Operator in Command' Charles A. Keene, _QST_ May 1997
'SKYKING, SKYKING... can anyone hear me? The early days of Single Side
Band
Communication in SAC' Charles A. Keene, _Klaxon_ Winter/Spring 1998.
(Dr. Chuck Keene is a former SAC Strategic Comms Division & then C4,I
Systems
Directorate research analyst for STRATCOM)
'Insider At SAC -- Operations Analysis Under General LeMay' by Carroll
L. Zimmerman,
Sunflower University Press, Manhattan KS (undated, but seems to be
early/mid 1970s).
'Scope Command -- Linking C2 to Information Highway,' Rockwell
Communication Systems
Division, Richardson TX (undated, but around 1997).
Tim
Swling
that stuff is wrong.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
Steve H
<snip>
>
> I hate to disappoint you, but just because the source is Grove (more
> specifically, Vanhorn) doesn't mean it was accurate when it was
> published, let
> alone now, but that's a separate issue... Also, in my plane of
> existence, the
> current year is 2000. 1989 was 11 years ago. Are we communicating
> through a
> disruption of the space-time continuom, or were you actually trying to
> dispute
> the assertion I made a few days ago with info that was published in a
> monitoring
> hobbyist publication 11 years ago?
<snip>
>
> --
> Tim Tyler
> tty...@mich.com
> http://www.mich.com/~ttyler/
Sheesh Tim - I referred to a hobbyist publication 'cause it IS a hobby and
that's the best I've got at my fingertips right at the moment. I'm not a
military historian, and obviously not much of an expert typist either, but
my reading comprehension is just fine, thank you very much.
What's with you and the nasty tone of your "corrections" anyway? Both
hostile AND anal!
If you'll recall, my original post that you critiqued was a response to what
sounded like a newbie who thought he'd stumbled onto some deep dark secret.
Instead of being snotty to me, your expertise may well have been better
spent assuring HIM that it was ok to listen to the station he'd "found" and
to pass on the frequency to other listeners, perhaps even fill him in on the
background info that you so obviously possess in abundance (unlike us mere
radio listeners).
john
http://community.webtv.net/justmrzor/cajunplace
<body background=
"http://gifs123.tripod.com/backs1/starb.gif"
text="yellow">
Tom Sevart
"john" <just...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:22616-39...@storefull-136.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> 11.175 mhz isn't top secret
>
It isn't even classified. Even if it were, everyone knows about it.
--
Tom Sevart
Amateur N2UHC
Registered Monitor KKS0CE
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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Set'em up Joe
wrote:
>
>"john" <just...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>news:22616-39...@storefull-136.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
>> 11.175 mhz isn't top secret
>>
>
>It isn't even classified. Even if it were, everyone knows about it.
Okay. I know *something* is there because I caught some brief
trans. on 11175 last nite, approx. 10PM EST. My QTH is Fairfax, Va.
This is about 20miles from Boling AFB and Andrews. Did I hear what
Steve says I heard or not? ( Sure sounds like it). Also please, Where can
I find a more recent source ( personal, 'net, or book,etc) on Giant Talk or
Skyking.
I know there's been some argument in this thread, but I'm only looking
to learn. Any replies would be most appreciated.
TIA,
Andrew
jh-lewis
I can hear Andrews several times a day on 11.175, with coded messages and
weather conditions. Yes, 11.175 is a good frequency.
I pick them up easily on my Yaesu 840 - but I've yet to hear them on any of
my portable SWL rigs with the same antenna (a/b switch). Portables still
have a way to go yet...
John
Set'em up Joe <cath...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:397d988b....@news.erols.com...
Wesley H. Horton
least Air Force) signals, take a look at:
http://members.xoom.com/mikeoh/
This guy has a pretty good batch of information, including call signs
and what they are. I am in Oklahoma City and can hear quite a bit of
traffic arising from Offut AFB in Nebraska, and occasionally something
from Tinker AFB (Oklahoma City).
By the way, has any one ever gotten a QSL from any of the users of
11.175?
Regards,
Wesley Horton
Set'em up Joe
wrote:
>If you want a good source of info for the 11.175 and other military (at
>least Air Force) signals, take a look at:
>
>http://members.xoom.com/mikeoh/
Awesome site! It's gonna take a long time to go through
all this<grin>. And BTW, thx to others who gave helpful replies.
Andrew
Gary Sawyer
Copy is good and I used to hear EAM messages quite clearly. The Grundig
works for me.
Gary
jh-lewis @swbell.net> <jh-lewis<nospam> wrote in message
news:Nkhf5.493$H61.2...@nnrp2.sbc.net...
: I'm in St. Louis -
: >
: >
:
: