Hams vs. CB and "Freebanders"
Mike
occasional "freebanding" for some time. I've also been following
the recent editorials in "Monitoring Times" and "Popular
Communications" against out-of-band cbers.
The citizens band, even including the "outbands", encompasses only
a small part of the spectrum. On the other hand, hams have
available to them a tremendous number of frequencies in a wide
variety of bands across the spectrum. I like to monitor the ham
bands, especially entertaining are the conversations heard on 79
meters and 14.313. Many times, I have observed large portions of
the ham bands to be unused at a given time. I have never personally
intercepted a transmission by an "outbander" above 28 mHz, although
I would not claim that it never happens. I certainly don't begrudge
my fellow radio enthusiasts who happen to be hams the variety and
number of freqs allocated to them.
I cannot understand this preoccupation of hams with what takes
place between 27.405 and 28 mHz. Do you find things that boring
on your own service's bands that you have to tune to these freqs
for entertainment? Are you unable to establish QSO's with other
hams? If you have a law enforcement fetish, are all your fellow
ham ops in full compliance with FCC regs? If not, why are you not
policing your own bands and rooting out violators?
Well, we know why. The hams (and others) who constantly carp
about cbers are the radio enthusiasts' equivalent of the Christian
Coalition or Moral Majority. They just simply cannot STAND the
idea that somewhere, somehow, there are people enjoying themselves
in a manner of which they disapprove. Just like the holy-rollers
can't stand MTV or the Playboy channel. Just like them, they try
to cloak their arguments in righteousness, "They are interfering
with other services", but one wonders why the "other services"
cannot speak for themselves. Do the maritime or government
services that are supposedly allocated these freqs actually need
hams to come to their rescue? I don't think so.
Fortunately, in the past, the FCC has given all the fuss raised by
the hams the attention it deserves, which is to say none at all.
Unfortunately, lately, they seem to be giving in to them somewhat,
probably out of a desperate desire to find some relief from their
constant whining. Hopefully the Commission will soon get back to
its serious work.
Another thought: I see that, in the recently posted history of
the various news groups, cbers are discouraged from posting in ham
groups. They are told that they have nothing to say of interest
to hams. I wonder then, why hams seem to feel free to post in a
newsgroup dedicated to CB news. Sounds like the holy-rollers
again, saying "you're not good enough to attend our churches, but
we'll come preach to you whenever we feel like it." By their
attitudes ye shall know them.
I'm studying, when I have time, and someday, I'll have my ham
ticket. I'll still probably go "slumming" on the old 11 meters,
every once and awhile, though, because there are interesting
QSO's to be had there, and because everybody like to take a walk on
the wild side occasionally. Meanwhile, if everybody could just
MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS and follow the Golden Rule, we could all
enjoy our hobby to its fullest.
73 de Mike WSM28
Hiroshi Matsuura
>
Ah... You forgot that shortwave radio signals can go beyond of
national boundaries. In some countries, those frequencies are
assigned for ship to ship/shore communications, beacons and
so on. Oh, well, yeah. Those are useless frequencies now.
Thanks a lot.
Oh, btw, you go differnt part of the world, and then you hear
lots of AM and FM(non-ham) in 10m ham band. English are heard
occasionally.
Rosh.
John Maultsby
>Another thought: I see that, in the recently posted history of
>the various news groups, cbers are discouraged from posting in ham
>groups. They are told that they have nothing to say of interest
>to hams. I wonder then, why hams seem to feel free to post in a
>newsgroup dedicated to CB news. Sounds like the holy-rollers
>again, saying "you're not good enough to attend our churches, but
>we'll come preach to you whenever we feel like it." By their
>attitudes ye shall know them.
Actually, I think I just read the newsgroup history you speak of. I
don't think it discouraged CB'ers from posting. Instead, it discouraged
*everyone* from crossposting between the ham and CB newsgroups unless the
poster knew for a fact that both groups would be interested.
Let's face it, hams and CB'ers disagree on almost everything. However,
not everyone fits the description. I've got no problem with CB, even
spent a little while messing around with it when I was a young'un.
Anybody in the one group that puts down the other group just wants to
feel superior, and there are those on both sides that do it. Heck, not
too long ago I heard a ham refer to a repeater jammer as "probably a
stupid chicken bander". The stupid part was that I had heard this ham on
the CB frequencies many times before.
I've got no gripes with CB'ers myself. Hey, lots of luck to you if you
decide to start studying for a ham license!
>
>73 de Mike WSM28
>
KE4CLW on this end... Later!
Mike
Ah so. But you must re-read my original post. My point was NOT
that out-of-band CBers do not interfere, but rather, do the assigned
services really need the assistance of U.S. ham operators to police
their band? Do U.S. ham ops have any REAL knowledge of interference
in other parts of the world, or are they merely using that as a
pretext for whining to the FCC? I seriously doubt that ARRL
headquarters has a stack of letters from steamship companies in
the Eastern Hemisphere asking them to lobby the FCC on their behalf!
If they do, perhaps they had better consider registering with the
State Department as a foreign agent.
My advice to any marine services in Australia, New Zealand,
Japan, or anywhere else around the globe, who are experiencing
adverse effects from out-of-band U.S. CB operators, would be to
bring up the subject at the next ITU convention.
73 de Mike aka WSM28 aka "Stationmaster"
Bruce Micales
>Date: Sat, 16 Jul 1994 16:53:52 GMT
>Subject: Hams vs. CB and "Freebanders"
>The citizens band, even including the "outbands", encompasses only
>a small part of the spectrum. On the other hand, hams have
>available to them a tremendous number of frequencies in a wide
>variety of bands across the spectrum. I like to monitor the ham
>bands, especially entertaining are the conversations heard on 79
>meters and 14.313. Many times, I have observed large portions of
>the ham bands to be unused at a given time. I have never personally
>intercepted a transmission by an "outbander" above 28 mHz, although
>I would not claim that it never happens.
It happens, I have intercepted several on 2 meters!
>I cannot understand this preoccupation of hams with what takes
>place between 27.405 and 28 mHz. Do you find things that boring
>on your own service's bands that you have to tune to these freqs
>for entertainment? Are you unable to establish QSO's with other
>hams? If you have a law enforcement fetish, are all your fellow
>ham ops in full compliance with FCC regs? If not, why are you not
>policing your own bands and rooting out violators?
If I have a CB license, I have every right to monitor the CB bands and
report violations. This is good for the CB operators in general. Violators
are "rooted" out in the amateur bands. Amateur radio is a self-policing
service (and from what I have hear, CB is not)!
>Fortunately, in the past, the FCC has given all the fuss raised by
>the hams the attention it deserves, which is to say none at all.
>Unfortunately, lately, they seem to be giving in to them somewhat,
>probably out of a desperate desire to find some relief from their
>constant whining.
No, this is due to the lobbying efforts of the ARRL and agruments placed
before the Commission that these chances have occurred. There was a time
were amateur radio ACTUALLY lost several bands due to the action of the
Commission.
>Hopefully the Commission will soon get back to its serious work.
Yeah, like closing down ANY stations (CB, Ham, "freebander", etc.) that
transmit outside of the assigned frequencies.
For some oddball reason, you "freebanders" seem to think that you have a "
God Given" right to transmit where you please. Just because you may not
get caught or do not hear of a complaint, does not mean you have not
interfered with the other radio services.
I am getting a little sick and tried of hearing both CBers (some), and Hams
(some) constantly attacking each other. The FCC has clearly established
operating rules for both services...anyone (CB or HAM) caught operating
outside (and not accidently keying the mic) outside of these rules, is
breaking the law and should be reported (note: only after 2 warnings to
stop).
Stay out of the amateur exclusive bands...these are for licensed amateur
radio operators ONLY. Should you transmit with in these bands, don't be
surprised if you get a visit from the FCC! In addition, while in the CB
bands, keep your power at the legal limit. Anyone has the right to file
a complaint with the FCC should you ignore the operating procedures
established for CBers (and Amateur Radio).
As far as "freebanding" is concerned...IMHO it is just WRONG. Should I
know of it, yes I would report it.
>I'm studying, when I have time, and someday, I'll have my ham
>ticket. I'll still probably go "slumming" on the old 11 meters,
>every once and awhile, though, because there are interesting
>QSO's to be had there, and because everybody like to take a walk on
>the wild side occasionally. Meanwhile, if everybody could just
>MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS and follow the Golden Rule, we could all
>enjoy our hobby to its fullest.
Hope you get your "ticket". However, I'll mind my business, as long as your
business does not interfer with any legal transmissions that I make. Once
you interfer (with an illegal transmission) you have prevented me from
enjoying my "hobby to its fullest".
Bruce Micales WA2DEU
John F. Woods
>I cannot understand this preoccupation of hams with what takes
>place between 27.405 and 28 mHz.
It's really quite simple. It doesn't stop at 28.000000MHz. If it did,
you'd find a lot fewer hams complaining about it.
Hiroshi Matsuura
>
>My advice to any marine services in Australia, New Zealand,
>Japan, or anywhere else around the globe, who are experiencing
>adverse effects from out-of-band U.S. CB operators, would be to
>bring up the subject at the next ITU convention.
>
>
>73 de Mike aka WSM28 aka "Stationmaster"
>
One of the basic idea of CB is to allow average Joe using something
called radio to talk someone who is a bit far away to talk directly.
Since this is an average Joe, gov. can not assume he knows anything
yet make sure he would not make any problem. So, gov. restrict
output power, frequencies and type of radios. And so, average
Joe can use that thing called radio as a black box.
If CB radio operators want to use high power transmitters, maybe
he/she needs to know some basic stuff. To make sure, maybe gov
wants to test him/her.. Score of exam doesn't tell everything but
it can be a minimum insulance. So? Where is "CB"?
Regarding increase of channels. Does that really solve the problem?
Maybe so in rural towns. In big cities, channels will be filled up
as soon as it becomes avabilable if they aren't filled up yet. Part
of the problem exist at the side of CB users. "Broadcasting" and
so on. The problem won't go away unless substantially large number
of channels(say few hundreds channels) will be assigned which is
unlikely. Besides, increase of channels is technically possible by
using narrow filters and assign continuous frequency spectrum rather
than fixed frequencies, although average Joe may not like that.
As of power, 5W isn't that bad. I used to operate 10W on 10m with GP
because that was my leagal limit. I regulry talked people within the
radius of 10-20 miles. DX wasn't that hard either. And few years ago,
I worked Japan, Australia, European Russia and Germany on 10m band
using 2W output transciever with base loading whip which is only about
3-4feets long using SSB from Seattle. Its just that quite a lot of
CB users are not accustomed to receive weak signals (and interferences).
you should be able to talk someone over more than just a few miles
if you use 5W output radio and antenna like ground plane or vertical.
Increasing power, you may just interfere someone who live in next town
adding someone living in your town(remember? its a two way).
I guess the bottom line is that CB is for everyone.
Rosh
Mike
>>I have never personally intercepted a transmission by an
>>"outbander" above 28 mHz, although
>>I would not claim that it never happens.
>
>It happens, I have intercepted several on 2 meters!
>
any stretch of the imagination be ascribed to CB outbanders.
>>If you have a law enforcement fetish, are all your fellow
>>ham ops in full compliance with FCC regs? If not, why are you
not policing your own bands and rooting out violators?
>
>If I have a CB license, I have every right to monitor the CB bands and
>report violations.
There is no such thing as a CB license. You have the "right" to
monitor anything you want, and you have the "right" to communicate
with the FCC. The courts have also ruled that street preachers
have the "right" to scream their theology at people on sidewalks,
that drug addicts have the "right" to beg money in public places,
and that the unwashed homeless have the right to seek refuge in
public libraries. That doesn't make any of these "rights" any less
obnoxious to normal people who merely want to be left alone.
You theoretically have the "right" to patrol the streets of your
town and take down the license numbers of traffic offenders, then
try to get the police to prosecute them. But, if you were to do
that, you would quickly find that the police would consider you an
eccentric pest, which is what the FCC thinks about the
self-appointed blue-haired old women who are constantly boo-hooing
about such insignificant matters.
>>probably out of a desperate desire to find some relief from their
>>constant whining.
>
>No, this is due to the lobbying efforts of the ARRL
Precisely.
>
>
>For some oddball reason, you "freebanders" seem to think that you have a "
>God Given" right to transmit where you please. Just because you may not
>get caught or do not hear of a complaint, does not mean you have not
>interfered with the other radio services.
>
No, "freebanders" don't think they have a "right" to transmit where
they please. It's illegal, and they know it. It's also illegal
(in my state) for me to drive my car down to the grocery store
without fastening my seat belt. "Freebanders" just think that the
two offenses are about equal in importance. And the
self-righteous self-appointed "freq police" are the equivilent of
someone running alongside the car screaming "he's not wearing his
seat belt! Arrest him!"
>
>Stay out of the amateur exclusive bands...these are for licensed amateur
>radio operators ONLY. Should you transmit with in these bands, don't be
>surprised if you get a visit from the FCC!
At last, a point on which we are in total agreement! I have NEVER
keyed a transmitter on an amateur frequency, and never intend to.
I would be the first to add my voice to that of any ham who
complained of such a violation. Hams worked hard to earn their
licenses and obtain their rigs, and they have every right to enjoy
the exclusive and unencumbered use of their assigned bands.
>
>As far as "freebanding" is concerned...IMHO it is just WRONG. Should I
>know of it, yes I would report it.
>
We all know this mentality. It's the same guy who went running to
the teacher every time somebody lit up in the restroom, or ran in
the hallway. They were oddballs then, they still are, and they just
can't stand not being able to be "just one of the guys".
>>I'm studying, when I have time, and someday, I'll have my ham
>>ticket. I'll still probably go "slumming" on the old 11 meters,
>>every once and awhile, though, because there are interesting
>>QSO's to be had there, and because everybody like to take a walk on
>>the wild side occasionally. Meanwhile, if everybody could just
>>MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS and follow the Golden Rule, we could all
>>enjoy our hobby to its fullest.
>
>Hope you get your "ticket". However, I'll mind my business, as long as your
>business does not interfer with any legal transmissions that I make. Once
>you interfer (with an illegal transmission) you have prevented me from
>enjoying my "hobby to its fullest".
>
Thanks for the encouragement, Bruce. But re-read my comments.
Nobody's disputing your right to be outraged over interference to
legal transmissions that you make. I believe everyone would agree
with you on that. Your final paragraph conflicts with what you
said earlier. If you concern yourself with your "legal
transmissions" on the ham bands, you wouldn't even be aware of
anything that goes on between 26 and 28 mHz, since that is not
part of any ham band.
73 de Mike
Bruce Micales
>From: j...@ksr.com (John F. Woods)
>Subject: Re: Hams vs. CB and "Freebanders"
>Date: 18 Jul 1994 13:54:38 GMT
Agreed....This happens a lot on 2 meters (144.00-148.00 MHz ITU Region 2).
No problems with shared bands, just the amateur exclusive bands.
Bruce Micales
WA2DEU
mart...@woods.uml.edu
[snip, snip]
> If you concern yourself with your "legal transmissions" on the ham bands,
> you wouldn't even be aware of anything that goes on between 26 and 28 mHz,
> since that is not part of any ham band.
Mike,
This is the type of mentality that creates the rift between CB'ers and Amateur
Radio operators. You are implying that ham operators should not know the
latest news or what's happening on a favorite TV program because the
frequencies that the signals are transmitted on are not part of any ham band.
I am a ham operator and an SWL (shortwave listener) and a CB'er. I've been on
CB since 1969 and held the license KGP-7471. I hold an Amateur Extra Class
license now with the call WK1V. I have the capability to listen to ANY
frequency from DC to light.
I listen to what's happening on the CB band every night. I stay up pretty
late (it's 1:00 a.m. now) and most of the ham bands are asleep at this time.
20 meters has some activity, 40 meters is full of QRN and BCI, 80 meters is
picking up every thunderstorm from here to Timbuctoo. But, right now I have
headphones on and am listening to WHRI (World Harvest Radio International) on
7.315 MHz. That isn't in any ham band. Yeah, it is 15 KHz up from the top
end of the 40 meter ham band and anyone with a shortwave receiver or most types
of amateur transceivers can pick it up. Many amateur transceivers will also
go down at least 100 KHz below 28.000 MHz. But most modern-day transceivers
will tune the entire HF spectrum.
My Drake TR-7 will tune from 0 to 32 MHz. I just tuned to 27.135 MHz. Channel
15 I believe. There's activity there. If I wanted to I could just fire up
the Cobra and talk to whomever I choose (on the legal 40 channels).
I am not the type who runs beside someone's car screaming, "He's not wearing
his seatbelt!" But I have been responsible for taking illegal operators off
the air. I'm not bragging but when an unlicensed service is trespassing into
the amateur frequencies, I go to work. It happened in 1983 in Biloxi,
Mississippi. Some of the fishing companies out in the Gulf of Mexico had
radios modified by who only knows but they were transmitting clear as a bell
into the 10 meter ham band. One call to Powder Springs, Georgia FCC Monitoring
station took care the those activities.
I have never reported any "freebanders" or anyone operating within the CB band
regardless of their power but the moment they interfere with amateur
communications I won't hesitate. Nor will I hesitate to turn someone in if I
am asked by officials if I know of any illegal radio operators.
In 1987 I helped have a baby monitor recalled nationwide. It was supposed to
be transmitting within the 49 MHz Part 15 band but was transmitting up in the
148 MHz range. That wasn't in a ham band but I was a Land Mobile Radio manager
for the Air Force and the Commander's Net was in that band.
Two years ago I was tuning around in the two meter band (on a Sunday) and heard
a complete church sermon on a two meter frequency. A little DF'ing found it to
be an instrument installed by a ham radio operator for the hearing impaired.
I picked it up almost 2 miles away....of course I had a high gain antenna.
There was no need to go to the FCC on this one. A little friendly discussion
and the problem was solved. It seems impossible to have a friendly discussion
with many CB'ers and most "Freebanders" when they are in violation of FCC
rules. They just flatly do not care.
Also, many have an attitude and are confused about the difference between a
"right" and a "privilege." Driving a car is a privilege, operation of an
amateur radio station is a privilege, operating a CB radio is a privilege.
Having privileges is a right but abuse them and you can be subject to losing
them.
Many ham radio operators come in here with an attitude also. They aren't
trained in the art of tact and diplomacy. Many haven't learned, yet, that they
can't take on all the illegal operators in this country. They have to learn
that those people will eventually hang themselves.
I've been all over the world but never south of the Equator....yet. But I know
how it is to get dirty looks from the Nationals of the country I'm in when they
learn I'm American. We seem to have this attitude that we can do whatever
we want to...even when we are in their country. Ever been to Singapore? Me
either. It's this attitude that shines through when we interfere with others
around the world who have a legitimate operation on "our" freeband frequencies.
Do what you want. It's your life. Right?
73 de WK1V
-jim- KGP-7471 Shadow ex-Shooting Star
Mike
said... if they go above 28 mHz, either direct or via splatter,
I'm with you 100 percent. Bust 'em, jail 'em. They got no
business up there. If I was a ham who worked to get HF privileges
and had to listen to it, I'd probably go cut some coax! But
that's NOT the situation I was talking about.
73 de Mike
Mark G. Salyzyn
>That doesn't make any of these "rights" any less
>obnoxious to normal people who merely want to be left alone.
So, are you implying that a free bander is *not* obnoxious, and that his
actions affecting safety and communications should be left alone? Sorry,
you are on very weak and thin ground.
>No, "freebanders" don't think they have a "right" to transmit where
>they please. It's illegal, and they know it. It's also illegal
>(in my state) for me to drive my car down to the grocery store
>without fastening my seat belt. "Freebanders" just think that the
>two offenses are about equal in importance.
And they would be wrong, one affects personal safety, the other affects
public safety.
Get a life, my friend, trying to justify illegal actions as not being
obnoxious, and the actions of people that report you and your ilk as
being obnoxious is about as twisted a mind as they come.
Ciao, 73 de XM223855/VE6MGS/Mark -sk-
Duane P Mantick
(crap, I tossed the name of the original poster.....)
[somebody ELSE wrote:]
>>I cannot understand this preoccupation of hams with what takes
>>place between 27.405 and 28 mHz. Do you find things that boring
What preoccupation? I have not seen an article in any of
the ham magazines that *I* read (does not generally include the
ARRL's rag, QST - generally I feel the ARRL can go stuff itself,
but that is a topic for another newsgroup :-) ) suggesting that
all us hams tune up to the so-called "freeband" and start turning people
in, NOR have I read any editorial suggesting same.
Quite frankly, I'd be surprised if over 50% of licensed
hams even KNOW about it, and probably less of them even care. If
it doesn't interfere with ham bands, most hams don't see it as
*their* problem.
>>on your own service's bands that you have to tune to these freqs
>>for entertainment? Are you unable to establish QSO's with other
Why not entertainment? I SWL with a DX440 and have listened in
to the "freeband" now and then just to see what the vile, evil,
nasty, horrible, terrible, rotten lawbreakers are bullshitting
about. I have a good laugh, and spin the dial to something more
interesting (just about ANYTHING is more interesting, to be perfectly
frank about it, IMHO).
>>hams? If you have a law enforcement fetish, are all your fellow
>>ham ops in full compliance with FCC regs? If not, why are you not
>>policing your own bands and rooting out violators?
We *do*. The problem is getting the FCC to actually DO anything
about them. The FCC is underfunded, understaffed and overworked.
That's why CB became such a shitpile back in the "convoy" days.
I was involved with CB in the years just before that happened, and
it was a pretty nice place to be.....
Lately it has seemed a bit more civilized again...
>If I have a CB license, I have every right to monitor the CB bands and
>report violations. This is good for the CB operators in general. Violators
>are "rooted" out in the amateur bands. Amateur radio is a self-policing
>service (and from what I have hear, CB is not)!
Even in the days BEFORE all that trucker garbage got started,
and there weren't so many ratchet jaw types on the air, most of the CBer's
I knew would rather call someone on the phone and ask them to watch
it rather than turn them in.
The truckers didn't CARE, because they were using the CB to
avoid speed traps and break the law already anyhow. Generally they
figured that as mobile stations, they weren't going to get caught.
Probably 99.99999 percent didn't, but I can recall more than one
case in which the FCC and FBI descended one a few stretches of roadway
and nailed a few. Arrest. Convictions. Big fines. Equipment
confiscation.
>>Fortunately, in the past, the FCC has given all the fuss raised by
>>the hams the attention it deserves, which is to say none at all.
If the FCC weren't so understaffed, all the freebanders would be in
jail right now, exactly where they deserve to be. The argument would
then be trivial and moot.
Hams certainly deserve more attention than CB'ers do, not because
we are "superior" or any of that BS, but for the simple and expediant
reason that Amateur Radio has umpety-ump times more spectrum than
CB's 40 channels, hence, a lot more space for pirating.....
>>Unfortunately, lately, they seem to be giving in to them somewhat,
>>probably out of a desperate desire to find some relief from their
>>constant whining.
Seems to me like YOU are the one serving up a pretty fine whine
here, contrary to your above comment. Where's the cheese and crackers? :-)
>
>No, this is due to the lobbying efforts of the ARRL and agruments placed
IMHO, lately I don't think the ARRL could lobby its way out of
a paper bag, but that's beside the point.
>before the Commission that these chances have occurred. There was a time
>were amateur radio ACTUALLY lost several bands due to the action of the
>Commission.
You mean STOLEN by a combination of cash and corrupted
congresscritters.
Let us not forget that 11 meters was once a ham band....
>>Hopefully the Commission will soon get back to its serious work.
>Yeah, like closing down ANY stations (CB, Ham, "freebander", etc.) that
>transmit outside of the assigned frequencies.
I get the feeling that the original poster has a serious
anti-ham chip on his shoulder. Too bad. Or maybe he just couldn't
pass the test. :-)
>Stay out of the amateur exclusive bands...these are for licensed amateur
>radio operators ONLY. Should you transmit with in these bands, don't be
>surprised if you get a visit from the FCC! In addition, while in the CB
>bands, keep your power at the legal limit. Anyone has the right to file
>a complaint with the FCC should you ignore the operating procedures
>established for CBers (and Amateur Radio).
I should point out that "anyone" has the right to file a
complaint for ANY RF interference. How seriously the FCC will take
that complaint is entirely another matter.....
>As far as "freebanding" is concerned...IMHO it is just WRONG. Should I
>know of it, yes I would report it.
Well, I feel like there are more important communications
problems that the FCC needs to spend its time on, like those
mush-mouthed assholes down in Texas on 28.325 in the 10 meter band,
and some of the other sewer holes. If the FCC gets time to deal with
freebanders, I won't be too sad since they ARE breaking the law.
>>I'm studying, when I have time, and someday, I'll have my ham ticket.
Thanks for the warning. :-)
>>I'll still probably go "slumming" on the old 11 meters,
>>every once and awhile, though, because there are interesting
>>QSO's to be had there, and because everybody like to take a walk on
>>the wild side occasionally. Meanwhile, if everybody could just
>>MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS and follow the Golden Rule, we could all
>>enjoy our hobby to its fullest.
>Hope you get your "ticket". However, I'll mind my business, as long as your
>business does not interfer with any legal transmissions that I make. Once
>you interfer (with an illegal transmission) you have prevented me from
>enjoying my "hobby to its fullest".
My impression, after 20 years of hamming and some number of
years of CBing prior to that, is that those people who get in the habit
of breaking the law either as CBers or freebanders or whatever seem
to develop a taste for it. Some of them re-adapt to being
"good eggs" on the ham bands and some DON'T, carrying their
ratchetjaw habits onto the ham bands. Other times, it is just bad
attitudes. Quite frankly, I am surprised that 2 meters hasn't turned into
more of a sewer than it has (major cities excepted, as 2 meters was
often a sewer there LONG before the no-code license came around) once
the no-code Technician ticket became available.
"MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS and follow the Golden Rule" has a certain
application, but does NOT fit with having ham radio being a
"self-policing" hobby as was suggested above. It is in the hobby's
best interests to nail down illegal radio operators, because experience
has shown that they are just as likely to eventually move into
one of the ham bands anyhow.
Duane
wb9omc
Mike
The freebanders I have heard are not any more obnoxious than some
hams I have heard. And, since, to my knowledge, freebanders to
not spend significant amounts of their time "policing" ham bands,
they are not obnoxious in that respect, either.
You can get off your "public safety" crap. Your type always tries
to resort to that when you start to feel the arguments hitting a
little too close to home. There has never been any serious
allegation that freebanders have interfered with any other
service, except for a small minority of nerdy hams who like to make
the claim without factual support. If there is ever any serious
interference to ANY band, not just 10-11-12 meters, the FCC and
other authorities are on it like stink on--well you know. Why is
it that one gets the impression that most of the complainers about
freebanding wear thick glasses, talk with a lisp, wear bow ties,
and still live at home with Mother?
73,
Mike
Erik Sorgatz
>>
>You can get off your "public safety" crap. Your type always tries
>to resort to that when you start to feel the arguments hitting a
>little too close to home. There has never been any serious
>allegation that freebanders have interfered with any other
>service, except for a small minority of nerdy hams who like to make
>the claim without factual support. If there is ever any serious
>interference to ANY band, not just 10-11-12 meters, the FCC and
>other authorities are on it like stink on--well you know. Why is
>it that one gets the impression that most of the complainers about
>freebanding wear thick glasses, talk with a lisp, wear bow ties,
>and still live at home with Mother?
>
>73,
>Mike
>
Excuse me but this is simply absurd. In 1973 there was a serious accident
at sea involving a cruise liner and an oil tanker in the sea of japan. The
Japanese government rendered assistance to all survivors and did so under
the most sever conditions. Including horrible QRM from the 'freebanders' on
the frequencies that Japan uses for coordinating such rescue efforts; namely
in the 27.4-27.9MHz region, REMEMBER this was before the 40 channel expansion
move in the US...there were over 200 people lost in the disaster, according
to the Japanese Naval Rescue Commander at least 1/2 of these people could have
been saved if it had not been for the incursion of the 'freebanders' and the
QRM they caused. This incident was reported in Monitoring Times and several
other publications. So let's just get off the soapbox about how 'no one's
ever been hurt by freebanders'...it's a load!
As to your comments about the looks of the complainers, you know you'd look
pretty silly with my Harley Davidson parked on your chest Little Man...don't
bother sniveling, your an admitted lawbreaker, and probably a wimp anyway...
-Avatar-> (aka: Erik K. Sorgatz) KB6LUY +----------------------------+
TTI(e...@soldev.tti.com)or: sor...@avatar.tti.com *Government produces NOTHING!*
3100 Ocean Park Blvd. Santa Monica, CA 90405 +----------------------------+
(OPINIONS EXPRESSED DO NOT REFLECT THE VIEWS OF CITICORP OR ITS MANAGEMENT!)
Bruce Micales
>From: wb9...@constellation.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick)
>Subject: Re: Hams vs. CB and "Freebanders"
>Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 19:22:31 GMT
>bmic...@facstaff.wisc.edu (Bruce Micales) writes:
>(crap, I tossed the name of the original poster.....)
>>before the Commission that these chances have occurred. There was a time
>>were amateur radio ACTUALLY lost several bands due to the action of the
>>Commission.
> You mean STOLEN by a combination of cash and corrupted
>congresscritters.
> Let us not forget that 11 meters was once a ham band....
I was trying to be nice...I have not forgotten that we lost 11 meters :-(.
>>>Hopefully the Commission will soon get back to its serious work.
>>Yeah, like closing down ANY stations (CB, Ham, "freebander", etc.) that
>>transmit outside of the assigned frequencies.
> I get the feeling that the original poster has a serious
>anti-ham chip on his shoulder. Too bad. Or maybe he just couldn't
>pass the test. :-)
Maybe he does, maybe he couldn't. However, in today's relaxed licensing
there should be no reason :-).
>>Stay out of the amateur exclusive bands...these are for licensed amateur
>>radio operators ONLY. Should you transmit with in these bands, don't be
>>surprised if you get a visit from the FCC! In addition, while in the CB
>>bands, keep your power at the legal limit. Anyone has the right to file
>>a complaint with the FCC should you ignore the operating procedures
>>established for CBers (and Amateur Radio).
> I should point out that "anyone" has the right to file a
>complaint for ANY RF interference. How seriously the FCC will take
>that complaint is entirely another matter.....
True.....sad (how seriously the FCC will take that complaint), but true.
>>As far as "freebanding" is concerned...IMHO it is just WRONG. Should I
>>know of it, yes I would report it.
> Well, I feel like there are more important communications
>problems that the FCC needs to spend its time on, like those
>mush-mouthed assholes down in Texas on 28.325 in the 10 meter band,
>and some of the other sewer holes. If the FCC gets time to deal with
>freebanders, I won't be too sad since they ARE breaking the law.
Let us help the FCC and report the SOBs. I would "flood" the local FCC's
FOB with complaints. Just a thought :-).
>>>I'm studying, when I have time, and someday, I'll have my ham ticket.
> Thanks for the warning. :-)
Well, let us give him the benefit of doubt...maybe he will "get
better" :-).
>>>I'll still probably go "slumming" on the old 11 meters,
>>>every once and awhile, though, because there are interesting
>>>QSO's to be had there, and because everybody like to take a walk on
>>>the wild side occasionally. Meanwhile, if everybody could just
>>>MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS and follow the Golden Rule, we could all
>>>enjoy our hobby to its fullest.
>>Hope you get your "ticket". However, I'll mind my business, as long as your
>>business does not interfer with any legal transmissions that I make. Once
>>you interfer (with an illegal transmission) you have prevented me from
>>enjoying my "hobby to its fullest".
> My impression, after 20 years of hamming and some number of
>years of CBing prior to that, is that those people who get in the habit
>of breaking the law either as CBers or freebanders or whatever seem
>to develop a taste for it. Some of them re-adapt to being
>"good eggs" on the ham bands and some DON'T, carrying their
>ratchetjaw habits onto the ham bands. Other times, it is just bad
>attitudes. Quite frankly, I am surprised that 2 meters hasn't turned into
>more of a sewer than it has (major cities excepted, as 2 meters was
>often a sewer there LONG before the no-code license came around) once
>the no-code Technician ticket became available.
True, very true. I to have been in ham radio for over 20 years and I know
what you mean. Fortunately, I have not yet experienced a sewered 2 meter
band. Around Madison, WI., 2 meters seems pretty well behaved. Num-nods
are ignored and this seems to work. However, I am sure this problem does
exist :-(.
Bruce Micales
WA2DEU
Frank Powell
All the preceeding deleted ...
: Thanks for the encouragement, Bruce. But re-read my comments.
: legal transmissions that you make. I believe everyone would agree
: with you on that. Your final paragraph conflicts with what you
: said earlier. If you concern yourself with your "legal
: transmissions" on the ham bands, you wouldn't even be aware of
: anything that goes on between 26 and 28 mHz, since that is not
: part of any ham band.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought CB meant Citizens Band.
Since when does being an amateur radio operator mean that
he shouldn't even be aware of anything that goes on between 26
and 28 Mhz, or anywhere else? Of course it is not part of the
spectrum allocated to amateurs, but it is spectrum allocated
to Citizens, and an amateur is still a citizen.
--
/\_/\ I never met a cat |\ /| | Frank PoWell -N7KSK-
( o.o ) I didn't like! O.O | pow...@unislc.slc.unisys.com
> - < __,,,^..^,,,__ =(___)= | 34302207268 1348335950 1553477097
34511503224059 58589368040489 38795074027384
Mike
>pretty silly with my Harley Davidson parked on your chest Little Man...don't
>bother sniveling, your an admitted lawbreaker, and probably a wimp anyway...
>
>
>
for, to let those big, bad hams show their true colors! (Yes, yes,
I know, they only represent a "small minority" of hams, as so many
of you have pointed out. You're right, and I don't put all hams
in their category.)
The bottom line is, ya'll can go on with yer bellyaching and
whining, and waving your cryin' towels around, "<boo-hoo> I'm
soooo professional and I'm soooo goood on my radioooo, I just can't
understand WHY <stomp your little foot now> the FCC allows these
ignorant redneck sluts <boo hoo> to keep on breakin' the law..."
And the FCC will keep on ignoring you (as they should). Oh,
they'll make a few busts here and there every now and then to get
the 5 and 10 kw stations who really are causing problems, but
things will just go rockin' along like they always have, and the
sun will keep rising every day. And the really nice people (hams
and CBers) will keep right on enjoying their hobby and the
fellowship it affords, despite your best boo-hooing efforts.
Again, like ol' Walter used to say, "And that's the way it is."
It's sure been fun getting all the little boo-hoos stirred up!
73,
Mike
Mike
In article <1994Jul22....@unislc.slc.unisys.com>, Frank Powell (pow...@unislc.slc.unisys.com) writes:
>Mike (mi...@mandy.win.net) wrote:
>All the preceeding deleted ...
>: Thanks for the encouragement, Bruce. But re-read my comments.
>: Nobody's disputing your right to be outraged over interference to
>: legal transmissions that you make. I believe everyone would agree
>: with you on that. Your final paragraph conflicts with what you
>: said earlier. If you concern yourself with your "legal
>: transmissions" on the ham bands, you wouldn't even be aware of
>: anything that goes on between 26 and 28 mHz, since that is not
>: part of any ham band.
>
>
>Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought CB meant Citizens Band.
>Since when does being an amateur radio operator mean that
>he shouldn't even be aware of anything that goes on between 26
>and 28 Mhz, or anywhere else? Of course it is not part of the
>spectrum allocated to amateurs, but it is spectrum allocated
>to Citizens, and an amateur is still a citizen.
>
>--
>
>
>
listen to anything you want to. But that's the problem, the
complainers don't WANT to listen to the "freebanders". So the
question is, why do they tune there if they don't like listening to
them? Just to get themsevles worked into some kind of masochistic
frenzy? When Rodney Dangerfield stuck out his arm and told Dr.
Vinnie Boombatz, "Doc, it hurts when I do that", the Doc replied,
"Well, don't do that." Same principle.
Mike
Bruce Micales
>Subject: Re: Hams vs. CB and "Freebanders"
Junk Deleted
>Thanks for the encouragement, Bruce. But re-read my comments.
>Nobody's disputing your right to be outraged over interference to
>legal transmissions that you make. I believe everyone would agree
>with you on that. Your final paragraph conflicts with what you
>said earlier. If you concern yourself with your "legal
>transmissions" on the ham bands, you wouldn't even be aware of
>anything that goes on between 26 and 28 mHz, since that is not
>part of any ham band.
Any activity that reflects negatively (i.e illegal) on the radio
communications community is a concern of the members of that community (
CBer, HAM, Commerical, governmental, etc, etc, etc.). Therefore there is no
conflict. All I said was that "Once you interfer (with an illegal
transmission) you have prevented me from enjoying my "hobby to its
fullest"". Note: I did not say were the interference occurred. You assumed (
incorrectly) that I meant the ham bands. I was referring to any illegal
transmission anywhere (save accidental keying of a mic). No I do not
monitor the non-ham bands, however, I am still concerned since your actions
reflect back on the radio communications community.
Bruce
David Martin
Hello. I hear about CBers scanning the bands and stopping offendors.
But consider, the free access to CB radio and the read need for NO
authority operate a CB radio can stop and real effort to police the bands!
Frank Powell
: > As to your comments about the looks of the complainers, you know you'd look
: >pretty silly with my Harley Davidson parked on your chest Little Man...don't
: >bother sniveling, your an admitted lawbreaker, and probably a wimp anyway...
: >
: >
: >
: There we go, that's more like what I started this little colloquy
: for, to let those big, bad hams show their true colors! (Yes, yes,
: I know, they only represent a "small minority" of hams, as so many
: of you have pointed out. You're right, and I don't put all hams
: in their category.)
It's interesting to note that you forgot to redisplay the
part of your previous post where you malaligned his possible
looks, to which he answered the above. You baited him, and
when he responded, you call him a big, bad ham. If you don't
want someone to jump on you, then don't ask them to.
Mike
Frank Powell (pow...@unislc.slc.unisys.com) writes:
>
>It's interesting to note that you forgot to redisplay the
>part of your previous post where you malaligned his possible
>looks, to which he answered the above. You baited him, and
>when he responded, you call him a big, bad ham. If you don't
>want someone to jump on you, then don't ask them to.
>
>--
"airwave policemen", and apparently it touched a nerve with the
respondent. Obviously, he saw a "spiritual" resemblance to
himself, or he would not have reacted so strongly. But his
response was about as substantive as yours, which is to say, nil.
McDaniel
[ Story about recall of baby monitors which were transmitting into the
Airforce Commander's band deleted ]
So like, someone leaving the monitor next to the TV set during a replay
of WAR GAMES could have started World War III??
Sorry... ;)
-McDaniel
Bruce Micales
>Subject: Re: Hams vs. CB and "Freebanders"
>
Then stop stereotyping people. In today's world of being "PC" I am not
surprised at the response that you received.
As to how substantive a response may be or may not be, I have not seen
anything of great substance in any responses you have given. They are the
same old tired replies (I'll break the law if I want to..what are you going
to do about it!).
All I have to say is if you break the law..I'll turn you in. This is not a
police state, I am doing this to PROTECT me and others (speeding, jaywalking,
running with scissors, etc. are excluded :-) ).
The regs on the books (established by international treaty) are there for a
reason. I suggest you determine what that reason is...before getting your
license.
Bruce WA2DEU
Bruce Micales
>Subject: Re: Hams vs. CB and "Freebanders"
>
Mike:
I will not honor you last comments simply because they show lack of
knowledge. If you are truely studying for a Amateur Radio License..the
comments that you made will be answered and showen to be incorrect.
Before you tell a 18 year vetern ham of what amateur radio can and cannot do
I suggest that study ALOT more.
BTW, I am not side stepping the issue, I just have more important things to
do than listen to the ramblings of an uninformed person.
Bruce Micales WA2DEU
Erik Sorgatz
>who, again, can't come up with anything more original than, "Ooh,
>I'm gonna tell, I'm gonna tell." You were boring in kindergarten,
>and you still are.
And I suggest that you are still playing "bully". Quite simply put
Mike, you stomp in here with the grace of a pitbull on amphetamines,
tell the whole world that you're gonna do as you damn please, rules
or not - and then start slinging shit when the facts regarding the
newsgroup's FAQ and charter are mentioned. Are you just plain stupid,
or are you mentally defective? The charter specifically EXCLUDES all
the illegal stuff as topics. The FAQ refers you to Part 95. How much
clearer can it get? You, Sir, are the sour note here!
>What really gripes these eccentric hams who have to have a "serious"
>side to their hobby is that, as a practical matter in the eyes of
>the FCC, there is not one iota of difference between the Citizens
>Band and the Amateur Bands. They are both "playtoys". They are
>non-essential services. Now, these are the guys who have to
>wallpaper their shacks with signs and stickers proclaiming that
>they engage in (drumroll) EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS (read in Ted
>Baxter voice). On any given day there are thousands of QSO's taking
>place on the Citizens Band that can be classified as "emergency" or
>"urgent" communications. By comparison, the number taking place on
>the ham bands is so small as to be statistically insignificant.
>It's so unusual for a ham to relay an emergency message that when
>it does occur it's a news item. CB base station operators just
>sit back and laugh to themselves when they read about these rare
>happenings, because they know that any ONE of them can render more
>emergency assistance on Ch. 19 in a WEEK than any ham operator
>could in a lifetime. This truly tears these somber-heared hams out
>of their frames. They just can't STAND it. They've simply GOT to
>come up with SOMETHING to make them feel important! What, oh what
>can that be??? Their egos need massaging so badly, what will they
>do? "Gee, I know! Let's all appoint ourselves Junior FCC G-Men!
>Then, we can claim we are doing something important for mankind!"
>"Yeah, then all this money we've spent on equipment and the time
>we've spent studying theory and code won't seem wasted!" "Oh, wow, I
>wonder if I can write Washington and get an official Junior FCC G-Man
>badge to show to all my friends?" How cool. I know I'm impressed,
>aren't you?
>
>Mike
>
>
>
Here again you havent done any substantial homework. Let's look at the
record for some recent disasters shall we? How about the Northridge Quake
and the Floods of 94 in the midwest and South...good enough? The Federal
Emergency Office sent commendations to the floor of both the Senate and
the House of Representatives citing in the "..invaluable services rendered
to the American people by Amateur Radio operators..". Law enforcement too
took note of the disaster response by Hams during these events, with the`
American Sherriff's Council and the American Policeman's League sending
their thanks to the ARRL for "..fostering the development of a ready and
able communications resource..that was able to render assistance to local
law enforcement when their substantial communications systems had been
(made) inoperable..due to the disaster(s)."
No one went on record to applaude the efforts of the lone-wolf CBers, the
best was a footnote recorded by Pete Wilson (regarding the Northridge Quake)
when he mentioned that he was: "..grateful for the assistance given by the
local Ham and CB operators during and after the disaster.." He actually
posed for a picture with some of the local SFVARC and REACT members.
So for gawd's sake Man, don't make an ass of yourself by belittling the very
significant contribution that Amateur Radio has played in responding to
disasters - this is where our superior operational skills and planning have
given us an edge over the CB service...but only because we practice it! The
REACT guys do their best too, it's just that emergency response isn't part
and parcel of what most CBers train for..and since there isnt a test...
Finally, Mike, you sound like a broken record...you want the privileges
that go with an Amateur license, but you're not willing to commit to learning
the material and taking the tests...why is that? You claim that it's your
"right" to be allowed to modify transmitters - it isn't. Unless you actually
have a Gen Class Radiotelephone License...which I doubt. CB isn't intended
for experimenters...that's the bastion of Amateur Radio...go read the law..
..and as for some of us being "Jr. FCC-men"...well, some of us are! The FCC
Auxillary is just that, and in case you're interested, it's legal too!
73! and RTFM!
Chris Schmidt
person. But I don't Think that What everyone keeps yelling about is the
fact that CBer's have the right to modify Radios or that They are afriad to
learn the Theory and and Practices. I know alot of Freebanding, Illeagal
powered over 65' antenna height (part 95) CBer's that talk DX and all that
neat stuff, and at least half of them could pass the Exams for a novice
Class liscence or better, they are not in anyway incapable of learning/
comprehending. They just Know after reading the books (Ham Test Study books)
that they would never have as much fun on the Ham Bands as they would on the
CB radio Band. It is true in Highly populated Cber areas. Much more fun
and alot less expensive. People don't like to spend " unessicary (check speeling)
g) money " on Communications equipment, The Stuff is far too expensive for
the average CBer and The tests just seem like another boring high school
science class.
I Listen to Ham's on 2 meters and 10 meters often, and the only thing
that ever held my attention was some guy on 10 meter cussing his ass off at
other hams, ( you prolly heard 'em before ) in some state like
missisppi or something. The conversations are Compartively (to Cb) Boring!
I have a Ranger 2950, a 2/3 kilowatt amp and a magnet mounted
antenna, that I rarely use, I have not ever keyed up in the 28.100 mhz
range or above ever. I have only talked up to 27.595 Mhz. Anything after
that I would be interfering with Ham Operators QSO's. I don't think that
is fair. On channel 19 I merely listen to the truckers for Traffic
information. I use the power to talk on sideband on the "FREE BAND"
freq's and usually I don't need it, so I turn it off.
There, I have been honest, and you see, not all of us
Illeagal/whatever Cber's are doing what we do just to aggrivate Hams. Or
Impress our buddies etc... Its called Communicating, Not Freebanding or
Bootlegging or any of those slang terms. Do what you think is right and
fair. I try to do my best, In the past two weeks I have turned on and
transmitted on my radio Twice for maybe 15 minutes. I know most Cber's
prolly can't say that, but I have just not felt the urge/need to use it.
Keep up the " good " work.
C'Ya......
Bernhard Stepke
>From: csch...@diralect.me.pvamu.edu (Chris Schmidt)
>Subject: Re: "Freebanders"
>Date: 2 Aug 1994 05:21:59 GMT
> I have a Ranger 2950, a 2/3 kilowatt amp and a magnet mounted
>antenna, that I rarely use, I have not ever keyed up in the 28.100 mhz
>range or above ever. I have only talked up to 27.595 Mhz
Erik:
There you are, an admission of guilt...go get em', turn him in to the
FCC !
>I use the power to talk on sideband on the "FREE BAND"
>freq's and usually I don't need it, so I turn it off.
Erik:
Ooo ! He's even more guilty, he keys up outside of legal limits. You had
better move on this one Erik. Not to is a crime, you wouldn't want to do
anything wrong now would you ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bernhard Stepke, Ph.D. ph...@mizzou1.missouri.edu
Dept of Physiology University of Missouri
Columbia MO 65212 (314) 882-7666
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Duane P Mantick
>>
>>
>The ones with the "same old replies" are the "little old ladies"
>who, again, can't come up with anything more original than, "Ooh,
>I'm gonna tell, I'm gonna tell." You were boring in kindergarten,
>and you still are.
Same old, same old. Yawn. You seem as guilty yourself of
what you are hollering about here.
>What really gripes these eccentric hams who have to have a "serious"
>side to their hobby is that, as a practical matter in the eyes of
>the FCC, there is not one iota of difference between the Citizens
>Band and the Amateur Bands. They are both "playtoys". They are
I'll beg to differ on this point. Amateur Radio as a
defined item is and was by nature a "hobby". The Class D Citizens
Band was NOT. It was created to give individuals a short ranged means
of delivering messages, but was in the rules NOT defined as a
"hobby band". In fact if you go back and look at various copies of
Part 95 you will find that it was specifically stated that CB was NOT
for hobby use or idle chit-chat.
The only reason that CB became a hobby band is because the
thing mushroomed out of control, and the FCC more or less washed their
hands of it. As I understand the current "rules" for CB, there
virtually aren't any.
>non-essential services. Now, these are the guys who have to
>wallpaper their shacks with signs and stickers proclaiming that
>they engage in (drumroll) EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS (read in Ted
Pretty funny, that. I had more such signs back when I was
doing CB. My ham shack has NO such sign anywhere.....
Does have a bunch of paper from a bunch of other countries
and a lot of little islands, though...... :-)
>Baxter voice). On any given day there are thousands of QSO's taking
>place on the Citizens Band that can be classified as "emergency" or
>"urgent" communications. By comparison, the number taking place on
>the ham bands is so small as to be statistically insignificant.
Really? Perhaps you can provide some numbers and a
reliable source for them.
>It's so unusual for a ham to relay an emergency message that when
>it does occur it's a news item. CB base station operators just
Happens all the time on 2-meters.
>sit back and laugh to themselves when they read about these rare
>happenings, because they know that any ONE of them can render more
>emergency assistance on Ch. 19 in a WEEK than any ham operator
>could in a lifetime. This truly tears these somber-heared hams out
What a load of crap.
While I have the utmost respect for organizations like
REACT and for anyone who will take a few minutes out of his time
to relay a message to help out somebody else, the fact of the matter
is that most CB'ers wouldn't know how to handle a serious emergency
(communications wise) if it reached out and bit them in the ass.
That isn't a personal insult - that is not the intent of
the statement. The point is, CB by and large has NOT gone out of its
way to be prepared for such contingencies. You are allotted 40
channels all in the same band - if an emergency occurs and
propagation for 11 meters just happens to suck on that given day,
CB has become fairly useless for anything other than VERRRRY short
range point to point relays.
Now I won't argue that this is STILL fine for things like
"somebody ran out of gas" or "local accident on the freeway" or whatever.
But when the chips are REALLY down and local-only services
aren't enough, we hams are there, ready and moving, and I might add,
with the flexibility to go anywhere from 160 meters clear up to damn
near frequencies of light, whatever is needed. If one band doesn't
work due to mother nature on a given day, we go to another one that
WILL.
Funny thing - wonder why it is that so many Skywarn nets
and radio nets working with the National Weather Service to spot and
chase tornadoes use Amateur Radio instead of CB? Simple answer:
Amateur Radio has the needed flexibility and the needed discipline
to get the job done, and not a bunch of ratchetjawed truckers
cussing each other out.
YES - we hams are proud of the fact that we can do what we
do, and HAVE done many emergency communications when hurricanes,
earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. occur.
YES - we have probably saved some lives in the process. I,
for one, do not make chalk marks on the wall to keep count of how
many. Neither do most hams I know.
Ordinary people using the CB are fine folks, I have no problem with
them. But the history of CB does not, IMHO, hold it up as being
a great place to try and conduct any serious emergency business for
anything other than simple short ranged calls.
NOW - you might be right in saying that there are more
of those kinds of calls made on CB every day. I don't have any
statistics at hand one way or another, although I suspect if you took
a good hard look at the Amateur 2-meter band, you might be surprised.
>of their frames. They just can't STAND it. They've simply GOT to
>come up with SOMETHING to make them feel important! What, oh what
>can that be??? Their egos need massaging so badly, what will they
>do? "Gee, I know! Let's all appoint ourselves Junior FCC G-Men!
>Then, we can claim we are doing something important for mankind!"
>"Yeah, then all this money we've spent on equipment and the time
>we've spent studying theory and code won't seem wasted!" "Oh, wow, I
>wonder if I can write Washington and get an official Junior FCC G-Man
>badge to show to all my friends?" How cool. I know I'm impressed,
>aren't you?
Whatsa matter? Fail the code at 5 WPM? You know, you can read
it off a chart when it's that slow?
I feel sorry for you that you have such a shitty attitude.
All the above name-calling does little to support your premise, whatever
it is. Through all the vitriol, it is hard to actually FIND
a premise or argument or point......
Oh, I suppose you are complaining about a ham that wants to
turn in "freebanders". Perhaps you might think of it this way - this
is supposed to be a government "of the people, by the people and
for the people", or in other words, we are all supposed to be involved.
The FCC is underfunded, overworked. They are charged with enforcing
the communications laws that Congress passes.
If it happens that you don't agree with or LIKE those laws,
talk to your congresscritters and see about having them changed. In
the meantime, the laws are there. In the case of communications, the
laws are there to prevent utter chaos (which any CB'er who has been
around for a few years should be QUITE familiar with). Without
some rules as to WHO will transmit WHERE, the radio spectrum will degenerate
to where it was before the FCC and its predecessor, the FRC, was
created - with anyone transmitting whatever they want, whereever they
wanted it and with as much power as they could muster. Total confusion,
jamming all the time, etc.
Now - are the "freebanders" going to create that sort of
problem? Probably not. Fact is, they aren't a big pain in the ass
to anyone, that I'm aware of. They ARE breaking the law. There's
no reason for them to be outside of the authorized Citizen's Band,
other than they have shown their disrespect for the law.
Why are hams concerned? Because some of these "freebanders"
have already slid into the Amateur 10-meter band, illegally,
without proper license. You give the "freebanders" an inch, they
take a mile. Those of us that work the 10-meter band aren't going to
tolerate it, and will document incursions in every possible way,
turning appropriate evidence over to the FCC for investigation and
possible prosecution.
(how do *I* know anything about "freebanders"? It's called a
receiver....it has a tuning knob on it.....it can follow someone
sliding around.....)
I'm sorry that this bothers you so much - ask yourself why,
and ask yourself if "freebanders" really need to be outside of the
legal limits of CB. Are 40 channels not enough? If not, then get
the major CB organization to petition the FCC for expansion. Oh,
I forgot....there isn't a major CB organization, is there?
Why are YOU so defensive of the lawbreaking "freebanders"?
Could it be that YOU have some interest there? If not, then what
difference does it make to YOU if some crooks get put away? Eh?
Duane
Dennis Willson
>
>>that they would never have as much fun on the Ham Bands as they would on the
>>CB radio Band. It is true in Highly populated Cber areas. Much more fun
>
>to do all the same stuff LEGALLY?
>
Duane,
While I am a ham operator (KA6LSW) there are still times that CB is more
'fun' then ham. It comes down to... When I'm out camping, hiking, driving
in a group, etc.... and my friends are NOT hams I can still communicate with
them on CB. I will NOT just hand unlicensed people a 2M rig even if we are
way out in the boonies! I will however hand them a CB radio. On the other hand
CB is from channel 1 to 40 and all CB communication should be within that
boundary.
CBers spend more money on equipment then they realize or will admit. CBs on
the 'FreeBand' many are times modified ham gear. The CBers actually pay more
for the equipment that is already modified for 'FreeBand' use then the same
equipment sold to a ham.
Also the FCC could at anytime give that band to another service and decide to
come down hard on all offenders. Last time I looked (it could be different now)
the maximum for operating without a license or out of band for the CB service
was up to $10,000 fine and/or 6 months in a federal penitentiary for every day
of the offense plus loss of the equipment.
Dennis
Dennis Willson
>What really gripes these eccentric hams who have to have a "serious"
>side to their hobby is that, as a practical matter in the eyes of
>the FCC, there is not one iota of difference between the Citizens
>Band and the Amateur Bands. They are both "playtoys". They are
>wallpaper their shacks with signs and stickers proclaiming that
>they engage in (drumroll) EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS (read in Ted
>place on the Citizens Band that can be classified as "emergency" or
>"urgent" communications. By comparison, the number taking place on
>the ham bands is so small as to be statistically insignificant.
>it does occur it's a news item. CB base station operators just
>happenings, because they know that any ONE of them can render more
>emergency assistance on Ch. 19 in a WEEK than any ham operator
>could in a lifetime. This truly tears these somber-heared hams out
>come up with SOMETHING to make them feel important! What, oh what
>can that be??? Their egos need massaging so badly, what will they
>do? "Gee, I know! Let's all appoint ourselves Junior FCC G-Men!
>Then, we can claim we are doing something important for mankind!"
>"Yeah, then all this money we've spent on equipment and the time
>we've spent studying theory and code won't seem wasted!" "Oh, wow, I
>wonder if I can write Washington and get an official Junior FCC G-Man
>badge to show to all my friends?" How cool. I know I'm impressed,
>aren't you?
I was into CB big time for many years. I started in the late 60's when there
were 23 channels and most of them were not very busy. It wasn't until the
mid 80's that CB became so crowded that I decided to go ham. One thing that
99% of the hams don't see (usually because they never really spent any time
on CB) is what is called a 'Shit Disturber'. This is someone who gets on a busy
channel and says things specifically to get everyone else excited and causes
all the 'good CBers' to jam themselves trying to tell this person off! A good
SD can start by saying a few words and then sit back and listen to a total
jammed channel, a channel being jammed by the very people who want it not to
be jammed. This is what this guy is!!! He is suckering you guys in....!!!
He can't really believe what he says otherwise he would not want to become a
ham himself.
This reminds me of someone who had a CB in there car and had more power than
they were suppose to. They would drive through my area of town trying to jam
everyone on his way home from work. I lived on a hill and overlooked a valley
where several of my friends lived and we talked everyday about the time this
guy came through. We (myself and my freinds were 4 watts) could still talk
even when he came by (partly because we were so close and I was on a hill)
and the fact that he could not interupt us made him madder and madder. One day
he showed up with a new toy and much more TX power, he drove smack between us
and said 'get by me now!'. Well not to be outdone I called my freind on the
phone and set the phone on my shoulder. I then continued to key the mike when
I talked, and my friend did the same. When the man unkeyed his radio it sounded
to him like we were just talking right over him and he was totally uneffective!
He never bothered us again.
Ignore these people and they will go away.... If you can't ignore these people
it is important that they think you are ignoring them!
Dennis
Duane P Mantick
> Mr. Sorgatz. You seem to be a Knowledgable Ham and a Respectable
>person. But I don't Think that What everyone keeps yelling about is the
>fact that CBer's have the right to modify Radios or that They are afriad to
>learn the Theory and and Practices. I know alot of Freebanding, Illeagal
>powered over 65' antenna height (part 95) CBer's that talk DX and all that
>neat stuff, and at least half of them could pass the Exams for a novice
>Class liscence or better, they are not in anyway incapable of learning/
Then why don't they just go legal and DO it?
>comprehending. They just Know after reading the books (Ham Test Study books)
AAAAARRRRGHGHHHH!!!! The study books are designed to get you
to pass the TEST, not to reflect everything that you can do AFTER
the fact.
>that they would never have as much fun on the Ham Bands as they would on the
>CB radio Band. It is true in Highly populated Cber areas. Much more fun
By breaking the law? That is fun? Wouldn't it be a lot MORE fun
to do all the same stuff LEGALLY?
>and alot less expensive. People don't like to spend " unessicary (check speeling)
>g) money " on Communications equipment, The Stuff is far too expensive for
>the average CBer and The tests just seem like another boring high school
>science class.
Another boring high school science class? I think right there
bespeaks the nature of the problem - the failure to grasp the opportunity
to LEARN and EXPAND your knowledge.
What you can LEARN studying for the Amateur Radio exam is the
beginning of "learning" how to build your own antennas (which can be
considerably cheaper than BUYING them), how to build your own equipment
(which can be considerably cheaper than BUYING them), and enough
electronics that you might be able to maintain and repair your own
equipment (which is often guranteed to be considerably cheaper than
having to send it in to be repaired).
Much of what you said is absolutely untrue in most respects, and
would appear to be a very misinformed opinion.
On CB, can you (legally):
work CW?
work TV?
work RTTY?
work Packet?
work DX?
work other countries on DX? (nitpiking, I suppose)
work meteor scatter?
work Auroral bounce?
work moonbounce?
work satellites?
(that is scratching the surface)
If someone feels that they "would never have as much fun on the
Ham Bands as they would on the CB radio Band.", then they just don't
see the right materials or they are letting the complexity of the thing
buffalo them.
You don't HAVE to do ALL of it - lots of folks never touch
certain aspects of the hobby.
Look, I've done both CB and Ham (been a ham now for 20 years),
and there is NO comparison between the two.
Now having said that, if ALL you want to do is yak with the
same people every night and NEVER expand beyond that point, why have
a radio in the first place? Call them on the phone! OK, maybe you
can't do that if they're mobile. :-) Oh, forgot, maybe they have a
cell phone....but that starts to cost money. :-)
Yup, nobody said that ham radio was cheap....but surprise,
2 meter rigs don't have to cost an arm and a leg. No, you're not going
to get a 2 meter rig for the same $49.95 that you can get a 40 channel
CB for - but then that 2 meter rig will cover you from 144 to 148
megahertz, thats 4 MHz of spectrum instead of the 1.whatever that CB
has. You can spend a couple hundred bucks and get a very decent
2 meter rig and work FM only through that spectrum (giving you much
better audio than 11 meters with less noise) and be able to work
repeaters to extend your range - and I might add, there are some
repeater systems with satellite (outlying) receivers that can cover
half a state or more with relative ease.
So sure, a more capable radio is going to cost you some
more money. No contest on that point.
Or, you can go up to a thousand buck radio and work all modes,
CW, AM, SSB, FM and so forth. It's all what YOU want to do....yes,
you can spend a LOT of money, but you don't HAVE to just to get on the
air.
Plus there is a lot of decent used equipment around for
less than new prices. An awful lot of hams start on used gear, I
know I did. I got a good transmitter AND a tolerable receiver for
$100, and I was able to resell them for the same price. Good gear will
hold a value through several resales.
> I Listen to Ham's on 2 meters and 10 meters often, and the only thing
>that ever held my attention was some guy on 10 meter cussing his ass off at
>other hams, ( you prolly heard 'em before ) in some state like
>missisppi or something. The conversations are Compartively (to Cb) Boring!
If you listened to 28.325, you heard a guy that is also being
listened to by the Feds, most likely. He gets turned in on a regular
basis.....Texas, BTW, if we're talking about the same guy.
Inevitably, it is the bad apples that get the attention.
Funny that you should have capitalized the "C" and the "B" in
"Comparitively Boring".....I have listened to conversations on CB,
and I don't hear that much difference. What can be that much more
boring on the ham bands than on CB? With the wider range of amateur radio,
you can meet a wider range of people and find as many, or more, people
with similar interests to your own as you can on CB.
> I have a Ranger 2950, a 2/3 kilowatt amp and a magnet mounted
2/3 kilowatt on CB? Isn't that a bit over the stated legal
limits?
>antenna, that I rarely use, I have not ever keyed up in the 28.100 mhz
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Glad to hear that, the amp, that is.
>range or above ever. I have only talked up to 27.595 Mhz. Anything after
>that I would be interfering with Ham Operators QSO's. I don't think that
Check out a spectrum chart if you want to see what the bottom end
of the 10meter band is. Allow X KHz as a "protection band" and unless
your equipment generates signifigant spurious crud, you'll probably not
QRM us.
>is fair. On channel 19 I merely listen to the truckers for Traffic
>information. I use the power to talk on sideband on the "FREE BAND"
>freq's and usually I don't need it, so I turn it off.
Freeband - outside of your legal limits again? Keep in mind that
if you get caught, it will be anything BUT "free". Is the possibility of
a big fine, equipment confiscation and so forth REALLY worth it?
Oh, and the last I knew, getting nailed for something like this
might also make you ineligible to EVER get a ham license. I don't
know all the ins and outs of that aspect of the legalities of it, but
I am pretty sure that I have heard of applications for ham licenses being
denied due to prior "difficulties".
> There, I have been honest, and you see, not all of us
>Illeagal/whatever Cber's are doing what we do just to aggrivate Hams. Or
>Impress our buddies etc... Its called Communicating, Not Freebanding or
>Bootlegging or any of those slang terms. Do what you think is right and
And those of us who turn in illegal ops aren't doing it just to
aggravate all CB'ers, or impress our buddies, etc.
Well, call it what you will. If you are operating outside of
your allocation, it is illegal.
Try obeying the LAW.
Duane
Andy Domonkos
for out-band activities (be honest guys, why do hams have to modify their
HT's/mobile rigs to Tx out out band also?)
As a previous CB'er mentioned, best to ignore those trying to start a flame
war going. If you ignore an idiot on the air, he'll go away, same thing
here...
Andy Ham/CB operator.
Erik Sorgatz
>
>Erik:
>
>There you are, an admission of guilt...go get em', turn him in to the
>FCC !
>
>
>
>Ooo ! He's even more guilty, he keys up outside of legal limits. You had
>better move on this one Erik. Not to is a crime, you wouldn't want to do
>anything wrong now would you ?
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bernhard Stepke, Ph.D. ph...@mizzou1.missouri.edu
> Dept of Physiology University of Missouri
> Columbia MO 65212 (314) 882-7666
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Stepke-
Why not go have a massage and sit in the spa for a while? You sound like
you need a valium worse than I do!
<ob.advice> "The very best channel on your CB is 'OFF'..."
Mike
of us have been laughing our asses off in private e-mail over all
the carrying-on by the Dit-Dahs. Should have known some old cber
would give it away, just like they do at the truck stop on 19.
Still, it looks like the name of this news group should changed to
rec.radio.hams.who.want.to.talk.about.cb. Seems like 90 percent
of the people who post here are hams! What would I find if I
subscribed to any of those "rec.radio.amateur.<etc>" News Groups?
Is that where the CBers post?
Mike
Bruce Micales
>From: domo...@access.digex.net (Andy Domonkos)
>Subject: Re: Hams vs. CB and "Freebanders"
>As a previous CB'er mentioned, best to ignore those trying to start a flame
>war going. If you ignore an idiot on the air, he'll go away, same thing
>here...
Andy,
That is proably the best advice/post I have seen on here(
concerning this topic). Thanks for making the matter clear.
73 de WA2DEU
Bruce Micales (Ham Operator)
Bernhard Stepke
> Why not go have a massage and sit in the spa for a while? You sound like
>you need a valium worse than I do!
Erik:
I am not in need of a valium. But I do appreciate your concern. Really. I am
just reading along and posting for the fun of it. Can you say the same, in
spite of your many soapbox appearances ?
Erik Sorgatz
>
>Erik:
>
>I am not in need of a valium. But I do appreciate your concern. Really. I am
>just reading along and posting for the fun of it. Can you say the same, in
>spite of your many soapbox appearances ?
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bernhard Stepke, Ph.D. ph...@mizzou1.missouri.edu
> Dept of Physiology University of Missouri
> Columbia MO 65212 (314) 882-7666
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Stepke-
Alright, I've always claimed that the individual should dictate the intake,
and if you really don't need a valium so much the better. I'm just here for
fun too, and laughing at the archtypical redneck-CBers like Mike, seems to
be a part of the general fun. The ignorance is curable, but the attitude
change that would be required first seems insurmountable. As to the soapbox,
why not come to the "big city" and listen to 11m?...walk a few miles in my
shoes so to speak, you may find that your perspective changes.
73!
(also a member of the Piled-Higher/Deeper club...philosophy...ever try to
get a job as a Philosopher?? ;-) )
Tony Rossi
The FCC can ONLY authorized the use of any given frequency or band ONLY
if it is approved under the multi national treaty. They just don't hand
out other frequencies shared by neighborring countries.
--
Bill Starkgraf
a long reply to the article listed in the next line
-->In article <8...@mandy.win.net> mi...@mandy.win.net (Mike) writes:
which is also another long article.
Not to make this any longer, I cut them out. I agree with Erik. I actually
talk both on the HAM bands and the CB channels. In fact there are many
here in Southern California that do both. As for Emergency Communications,
I only have one certificate. It is from the City of Simi Valley, CA for the
work done during the orthridge earthquake. The certificate is not made out to
me, but to RACES. As a RACES member, a total team effort was used through out
Southern California during the flood, fires, and the earthquake.
After some of the larger aftershocks, the county network would be activated
and reports were taken to determine if there was any damage and should there
be any steps taken to notify the sheriff's department. We are under the
direction of the sheriff's department and when activated, like during the
earthquake, we come under FEMA.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill Starkgraf w...@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com |
| AT&T Global Information Solutions (310) 524-5754 |
| El Segundo, CA (800) 222-8372 x5754 |
| |
| Call: KD6UQB Handle: GREMLIN |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
John Herks
: I suggest keeping all threads to advice/suggestions, not hams flaming CB'ers
: Andy Ham/CB operator.
Maybe people like Uniden etc. are also to blame for radios like the President/
HR-2510, HR-2600 etc ?
John Herks
Andy Domonkos
Too bad the rest of the ITU member countries don't follow the same rules.
They're showing up on un-authorised freq's more often.
Andy
Andy Domonkos
>
> Maybe people like Uniden etc. are also to blame for radios like the President/
> HR-2510, HR-2600 etc ?
>
> John Herks
>
go away as only a few technically adept CB ops could actually mod their rigs
through crytsal changes. Instead of going after the manufacturer they go after
the small guy. Guess that's politics and business in corporate America.
Andy