Major reorganization of rec.radio.amateur.misc
Dr. Joseph M Zawodny
I've been reading this news group for well over a year now and is has grown to
a considerable size. The number of responses is nearly 100 per day now and
varies over a wide range of topics. I wonder if it might not be beneficial to
all if this group were subdivided into more focused catagories rather than
being all lumped into one .misc group. My recommendation is for the following
subdivisions to replace the .misc group:
.technical - This group would be for the discussion of real
tube/transistor and coil kind of stuff. Projects,
antennae, RFI, propogation and such might be examples
of relavent topics.
.consumer - This group is for the "What do you think of ...'s rig" or
"Where can I find a manual for a ..." or "Has anyone had
problems mounting a ... in a ..."
.bulletin - Here is where all the automatically forewarded ARRL stuff,
DX reports, Solar info, and Special event/contest messages
would go.
.ragchew - This will be the largest of the news groups and one I will
not read ;-) . Here is where you put all your frustrations,
BS, and ham related tidbits that really are not appropriate
to any of the other boards.
Now if we could only get some sense of order in the world of packet!
Thank you for the soap box,
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Joseph M. Zawodny (KO4LW) NASA Langley Research Center
zaw...@arbd0.larc.nasa.gov MS-475, Hampton VA, 23681
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Kurt Freiberger
[ Grandiose plan for the "beneficial reorganization" of r.r.a.m deleted ]
I can see it now; Usenet amateurs arguing endlessly over this.... In the
background, swelling ever louder, I hear the cry, "Jihad! Jihad!"
8-}
--
Kurt Freiberger, wb5bbw ku...@cs.tamu.edu 409/847-8607 fax:409/847-8578
Dept. of Computer Science, Texas A&M University DoD #264: BMW R80/7 pilot
"We preserve our freedom using three boxes: ballot, jury, and cartridge."
*** Not an official document of Texas A&M University ***
Bob Witte
> a considerable size. The number of responses is nearly 100 per day now and
> varies over a wide range of topics. I wonder if it might not be beneficial to
> all if this group were subdivided into more focused catagories rather than
> being all lumped into one .misc group. My recommendation is for the following
> subdivisions to replace the .misc group:
>
It seems it was about a year or so ago that we got to the present
structure of r.r.a.policy, r.r.a.misc, r.r.swap, ...
It was accomplished with much heated debate (can you say "religious issue"?).
Bob Witte / HP Colo Springs / bo...@col.hp.com / KB0CY
David Horak
> It seems it was about a year or so ago that we got to the present
> structure of r.r.a.policy, r.r.a.misc, r.r.swap, ...
There is also an alt.scanner group too. If it keeps splitting up, I'll
just keep adding the new groups to my news list anyway.
David N5OFQ
Leonard J. Popyack
>
> .technical - This group would be for the discussion of real
I second this. Lets put it to a vote.
wf2v
Fred Lloyd [Phoenix SE]
I would settle for one good, moderated group.
Any aspiring net control ops out there?
-fred
--
| Fred Lloyd AA7BQ, Systems Engineer Fred....@west.sun.com |
| Sun Microsystems Computer Corporation ...sun!flloyd |
| Phoenix, AZ (If it's a fact, I believe it!) (602) 275-4242 |
Paul W Schleck KD3FU
>In article <1992Sep22.1...@lonex.rl.af.mil> popy...@lonex.rl.af.mil (Leonard J. Popyack) writes:
>>In article <Buq3t...@news.larc.nasa.gov> zaw...@arbd0.larc.nasa.gov (Dr. Joseph M Zawodny) writes:
>>>
>>> .technical - This group would be for the discussion of real
>>> .consumer - This group is for the "What do you think of ...'s rig" or
>>> .bulletin - Here is where all the automatically forewarded ARRL stuff,
>>> .ragchew - This will be the largest of the news groups and one I will
>>[stuff deleted]
>>
>>I second this. Lets put it to a vote.
>>wf2v
>>
>I would settle for one good, moderated group.
>Any aspiring net control ops out there?
No, just us net control freaks. :-)
I wouldn't mind co-moderating a bulletin and FAQ-oriented newsgroup such
as rec.radio.announce or rec.radio.info (similar in setup and function
to news.answers). Naturally, this would have to be acceptable to a
majority of the net (I have my detractors) and I would prefer if it
rotated among several guest editors (such as with
alt.comp.acad-freedom.news).
Any other volunteers?
73, Paul W. Schleck, KD3FU
Conway Yee
>
>Any aspiring net control ops out there?
I suppose there is a lot to the theory that Americans don't like
freedom and prefer a good strong monarchy. Me, I like freedom.
Please leave at least one group (i.e. a misc group) for those of us
who are not big fans of Big Brother.
--
411 Blockley Hall | Conway Yee, N2JWQ
418 Service Drive | y...@ming.mipg.upenn.edu (preferred)
Philadelphia, PA 19104 | c...@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (forwarded to above)
(215) 662-6780 |
good, Conan - good!
}>I would settle for one good, moderated group.
}>
}>Any aspiring net control ops out there?
}
}I suppose there is a lot to the theory that Americans don't like
}freedom and prefer a good strong monarchy. Me, I like freedom.
}Please leave at least one group (i.e. a misc group) for those of us
}who are not big fans of Big Brother.
}
We make more and more laws to suppress our selves.
Our ultimate goal is not to be allowed to do anything.
Uh, by-the-way, just for the records, what did you say your address was.... :-)
--
Tony J. Podrasky | What's this thing?
San Diego , Ca | It's called a MODEM.
to...@convex.com | And what's this button for?
WA2EAA NNNN ZCZC | Whatever you do, don't touc{{{7bh6xx!{@%%hxbd&$#)$% NO CARRIER
Paul W Schleck KD3FU
>I've been reading this news group for well over a year now and is has grown to
>a considerable size. The number of responses is nearly 100 per day now and
>varies over a wide range of topics. I wonder if it might not be beneficial to
>all if this group were subdivided into more focused catagories rather than
>being all lumped into one .misc group. My recommendation is for the following
>subdivisions to replace the .misc group:
[Note: I posted this about a week ago, but due to an incorrect
Distribution header on the original message (it was set to
"rec.radio.amateur.misc") it never propogated out.]
Hi Joe, welcome to the net, with all its benefits and foibles! If
you've meant this one somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I apologize for taking
it "too seriously." However, as others in the group will attest to, I
like to take the group down "memory lane" with a little summary of our
history and motivations every once in a while.
This basic idea has been argued many times, both in informal debate, and
in the last newsgroup reorganization, condected by Jay Maynard. The main
criticism would of course be that simply making heirarchies is no
guarantee that people will compartmentalize their thoughts to specific
newsgroups (cross-posting and "take this to **** subgroup" arguments
will abound). We have enough trouble distinguishing between *.misc and
*.policy.
If the real reason is that you personally (or a small group of your
colleagues) don't want to read certain subjects, you might want to try
kill files, which can filter subject keywords and individuals (heck, I'm
probably in a few kill files! :-) I would highly recommend the rn or nn
newsreaders for their ease-of-use, format of presentation, and kill
features.
There are also a few more subtle criticisms, which I will note below.
> .technical - This group would be for the discussion of real
> tube/transistor and coil kind of stuff. Projects,
> antennae, RFI, propogation and such might be examples
> of relavent topics.
Let's not forget Brian Kantor. He gateways this newsgroup to Info-Hams
(and *.packet to Packet-Radio and *.policy to Ham-Policy). When the
last reorganization was discussed, he made it clear that he would only
be gatewaying ONE main newsgroup (which is certainly his right, as it
makes his administration simpler) and would probably arbitrarily choose
between misc or tech (correct me if I'm wrong, Brian).
> .consumer - This group is for the "What do you think of ...'s rig" or
> "Where can I find a manual for a ..." or "Has anyone had
> problems mounting a ... in a ..."
I don't see how this one can be detangled from .technical, as many of
these are basic tech questions.
> .bulletin - Here is where all the automatically forewarded ARRL stuff,
> DX reports, Solar info, and Special event/contest messages
> would go.
There was a discussion of a rec.radio.info or rec.radio.announce
newsgroup which would be "self-moderated" such as with news.answers
or rec.music info. It was shot down the last time it was suggested,
but it might be worth resurrecting again.
> .ragchew - This will be the largest of the news groups and one I will
> not read ;-) . Here is where you put all your frustrations,
> BS, and ham related tidbits that really are not appropriate
> to any of the other boards.
Seems like a waste, sort of a default newsgroup to add to the
cross-posting line. Again, you're revealing that your underlying desire
for such a newsgroup as a pre-fab kill file.
>Now if we could only get some sense of order in the world of packet!
Watch for an updated Packet FAQ. You might also want to check some of
the speciality packet mailing lists (such as for gateways and TCP/IP)
mentioned in the FAQ.
> Thank you for the soap box,
Most of your ideas have been suggested before, and have been declined.
Nevertheless, I would never try to stand in the way of someone
initiating a formal newsgroup creation proceeding (with a Call for
Discussion and Call for Vote). Check out news.announce.newusers for
offical instructions. (Although informal debate like this is certainly
meaningful, in the Usenet sense, it "doesn't count").
Remember, this is just *MY* opinion.....
73, Paul W. Schleck, KD3FU
(Current straw-poll results: 9-3 in favor of my washing the DJ's mouths
out with soap, at least in an electronic sense :-).
Paul W Schleck KD3FU
>In article <1992Sep22.1...@lonex.rl.af.mil> popy...@lonex.rl.af.mil (Leonard J. Popyack) writes:
>>In article <Buq3t...@news.larc.nasa.gov> zaw...@arbd0.larc.nasa.gov (Dr. Joseph M Zawodny) writes:
>>>
>>> .technical - This group would be for the discussion of real
>>> .consumer - This group is for the "What do you think of ...'s rig" or
>>> .bulletin - Here is where all the automatically forewarded ARRL stuff,
>>> .ragchew - This will be the largest of the news groups and one I will
>>[stuff deleted]
>>
>>I second this. Lets put it to a vote.
>>wf2v
>>
>I would settle for one good, moderated group.
>Any aspiring net control ops out there?
[Note: I posted this about a week ago, but due to an incorrect
Distribution header on the original message (it was set to
"rec.radio.amateur.misc") it never propogated out.]
No, just us net control freaks. :-)
I wouldn't mind co-moderating a bulletin and FAQ-oriented newsgroup such
as rec.radio.announce or rec.radio.info (similar in setup and function
to news.answers). Naturally, this would have to be acceptable to a
majority of the net (I have my detractors) and I would prefer if it
rotated among several guest editors (such as with
alt.comp.acad-freedom.news).
Any other volunteers?
73, Paul W. Schleck, KD3FU
Mike Freeman
Hello.
Thank you for the concise summary of the history of "rec.radio.amateur.misc".
I was a kibutzer for the last newsgroup reogranization; IMHO not much has changed
which would merit a further reorganization.
However, how does this hierarchical structure of the ham radio interest
newsgroups square with the notice I just received of the creation of a new
newsgroup "rec.ham.radio.swap" or some such? If this a dumb question, sorry.
I just gained access to Usenet after a long absence.
Thanks.
--
Mike Freeman <K7UIJ> | Internet: mi...@pacifier.rain.com
301 N.E. 107th Street | GEnie: M.FREEMAN11
Vancouver, WA 98685 USA | FidoNet: Mike Freeman at 1.105/126
Telephone (206)574-8221 | Loose bits sink chips!
Mark Zenier
: However, how does this hierarchical structure of the ham radio interest
: newsgroups square with the notice I just received of the creation of a new
: newsgroup "rec.ham.radio.swap" or some such? If this a dumb question, sorry.
: I just gained access to Usenet after a long absence.
Either someone made a mistake, or is being a retrograde idiot
by denying the legitimacy of the last reorg.
Giving them the benefit of the doubt then ,if it's a nearby
site, a voice phone call or polite email telling them of the
reorganization and the new names would be the first step.
And using the facilities in news to alias it to the new name
(rec.radio.swap), would be a good second step.
And if they are being a retrograde idiot, about the only
thing to do is the standard Usenet enforcement of gathering
together an electronic mob and chasing the perpetrator through
the network, pitchforks and torches held high. ;-)
Mark Zenier ma...@ssc.wa.com
Mark Salyzyn
> .bulletin - Here is where all the automatically forewarded ARRL stuff,
> would go.
And fll...@l1-a.West.Sun.COM (Fred Lloyd) sez:
>I would settle for one good, moderated group.
Or Paul W. Schleck interjects:
>I wouldn't mind co-moderating a bulletin and FAQ-oriented newsgroup such
>as rec.radio.announce or rec.radio.info (similar in setup and function
>to news.answers). Naturally, this would have to be acceptable to a
>majority of the net (I have my detractors) and I would prefer if it
>rotated among several guest editors
>
>Any other volunteers?
Many of these news (DX reports et al) are already managed fine, simply get
them to post (or cross-post, see later comments) to a bulletin group.
You already have your volunteers. I have volunteered to take on the
moderated group (actually mailing list) in rec.radio.amateur.packet, but
have had NO ONE take me up on the offer ...
But then psch...@cwis.unomaha.edu (Paul W Schleck KD3FU) counters later,
but actually he explains that this was an earlier complaint mis-posted:
>Let's not forget Brian Kantor. He gateways this newsgroup to Info-Hams
>(and *.packet to Packet-Radio and *.policy to Ham-Policy). When the
>last reorganization was discussed, he made it clear that he would only
>be gatewaying ONE main newsgroup (which is certainly his right, as it
>makes his administration simpler) and would probably arbitrarily choose
>between misc or tech (correct me if I'm wrong, Brian).
>> .bulletin - Here is where all the automatically forewarded ARRL stuff,
>There was a discussion of a rec.radio.info or rec.radio.announce
>newsgroup which would be "self-moderated" such as with news.answers
>or rec.music info. It was shot down the last time it was suggested,
>but it might be worth resurrecting again.
and finally unb...@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (UNB Amateur Radio) adds:
>I don't think that the current structure should be modified, but I do
>think that maybe a moderated group should be started *just* for announcements
>(such as orbital elements, dx, rtty and space news, propagation predictions,
>etc) Trying to locate these can be a real nuisance sometimes.. One can
>only hit K so many times before one's finger gets sore :-)
**** There is a point ? ****
And now to my point. There has been a discussion going on in rec.radio.packet
about a moderated group for gateway activities (ie: `clean' messages from
any of the rec.radio.* groups that can be gatewayed to packet radio). It has
died down much like this discussion here as no one appears to want to firmly
take the bull by yhe horn (an observation, not volunteering here to do it :-).
I have had `some' e-mail contact with individuals that feel my Amateurs on
USENET list is too large now to be posted to what they feel should be
a discussion group `rec.radio.amateur.misc'. Granted, add in the FAQ and
other postings and the beginning of the month could be a 600K hit, while
flow is generally around 100K-200K.
I do NOT think there needs to be a re-organization, all that needs to be done
is postings that carry high volume or bulletin content should be cross posted
to the fictitious rec.radio.amateur.news group (ala sci.space.news which seems
to have the same sort of bulletins anyways ... anarchy === USENET) so that
anyone NOT wishing to see news items have their feed site blast this
fictitious group for them ...
Or, we vote on the creation of this group, using proper USENET guidelines
(can't find my copy right now, it's collecting dust under my Control Data
92181 series streaming 9 track tape drive documentation :-). Needles to say,
to keep Brian Kantor happy, and the `bulletin/news/moderated' naysayers
happy, we keep the messages cross posted to rec.radio.amateur.misc ...
Sorry for dredging this old (September 26th, last posting) topic, but I
have seen too much complaining as of late and like to needle this one back
to life.
Ciao, 73 de VE6MGS/Mark -sk- ma...@ve6mgs.ampr.org