More on Barry Electronics in NYC...
RICHARD HAREL
> In article <1a7r28...@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU> dar...@mit.edu <Darrin Robinson> writes:
> >
> >Anyone who could E-Mail me the locations of Amateur Radio Stores in
> >the Manhattan (Mid-Town) area of NYC, please let me know! I'm going
> >there this weekend, and need to buy some "candy."
>
>
> There's only one amateur/sw dealer in New York City, period.
> It's Barry Electronics, located at 512 Broadway near Canal Street.
> Home of almost-higher-than-list prices, and the most obnoxious
> collection of arrogant know-nothings ever assembled behind a
> sales counter.
>
>>Boy, you've got that right! (note no smileys)
>>Rolfe Tessem Lucky Duck Productions
>>ro...@w3vh.UUCP 96 Morton Street, NYC, NY 10014
>>ro...@ldp.com 212-463-0029
Just a few more notes of interest :
1. It's the only ham radio store in NYC. Harrison's used to have a place in
mid-town but they went out of business. Harvey Radio also used to carry
ham gear but stopped after the Darke C-Line died. After the owner of the
store died in a plane accident in the 70's, his wife Kitty took over the
business and concentrated mainly in commercial sales. (Also para-military).
She's a cat lover and one of the first things you'll notice when you
enter the store is the feline fixtures. (Another thing you might notice
is the beautiful women waiting for the elevator on the first floor of the
building on their way to the dance studio !)
2. Probably due to the 8.25% sales tax, few New Yorkers would ever consider
making a major purchase there.
3. Another reason might be that all their prices are list price.
4. Rumor has it that Barry Electronics is the #1 supplier for Central
and South American non-amateur communications gear. i.e.: If you were
a general in a S. American dictatorship planning to have a 'rrrrevolution'
next Tuesday and needed 500 ICOM 02AT's - (for logistics...) Kitty would
be the one to call. It's not for the NYC Hispanic ham clientele that she
advertises "se hablo Espanol".
5. In 1991, Jan, one of the worker's was pistol whipped, and just by chance
made it out alive when early one Sunday morning, a truck loaded with 100,000
dollars of communications gear about to set out for the LIMARC hamfest
was hijacked. Months later, a jammer calling himself the "Voice-of-God"
started interfering with emergency services of the NYPD. Mainly SOD 1 and
4. The jamming went on for several months. Finally, the FBI were called
in on the case and within a short time managed to track the jammer.
The equipment used was traced to be part of the loot made off from the
hijacking but investigators were not able to link the suspect to the crime.
6. Lou Reiner (who worked for Barry for years) and his son Steve
quit recently.
If your looking for "candy" in NYC, may I suggest the real thing !
'Drakes Cakes', Egg creams, - the real candy stores of NYC are the best in the
world with an atmosphere all to themselves.
Mail order in our hobby is still I believe the best way to go.
73,
Rich
rharel@fab8%sc.intel.com
iso...@matrix.cs.wright.edu
>> It's Barry Electronics, located at 512 Broadway near Canal Street.
>> Home of almost-higher-than-list prices, and the most obnoxious
>> collection of arrogant know-nothings ever assembled behind a
>> sales counter.
>
They are not alone in employing these kinds of sales people, I have visited
three *major* mail order/walk in ham/sw dealers and have received the same
kind of treatment.
Two were in the Washington D.C. Metro area and one in Central Ohio. In all
cases the sales people had an arrogant know-it-all attitude and were slow to
wait on anyone who was not one of the regular good ole' boys or appeared to
be there to buy something other than a high dollar piece of equipment.
73, Wes Soper WB8CEH
Gary Coffman
>
>Two were in the Washington D.C. Metro area and one in Central Ohio. In all
>cases the sales people had an arrogant know-it-all attitude and were slow to
>wait on anyone who was not one of the regular good ole' boys or appeared to
>be there to buy something other than a high dollar piece of equipment.
A person has to be at least a little crazy to own or work for an amateur radio
store. They're certainly not in it for the money if they deal only with hams.
You're likely to get the same kind of treatment when you walk in as you would
get if you called CQ on a repeater. Either they're glad to welcome you, or
they wish you'd go away. I've even encountered both types in the same store.
There seems little middle ground.
Gary KE4ZV
Jeff Angus
> >> Home of almost-higher-than-list prices, and the most obnoxious
> >> collection of arrogant know-nothings ever assembled behind a
> >> sales counter.
>
> They are not alone in employing these kinds of sales people, I have visited
Then there is Henry Radio in West Los Angeles if you want to be abused out
here on the West coast.
xenon!skyld!jangus < This space left blank intentionally. >
J Angus, PO Box 4425, Carson CA 90749-4425 voice (310) 324-6080
acha...@desire.wright.edu
Hey, weren't you the HAM who started the bad check thing?
+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+
| Andrew Chaboty | acha...@desire.wright.edu | Why in the world |
| "Gamahuche" | Wright State University | would I want to speak |
| KB8LUQ | Dayton, Ohio | for this university? |
+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+
Dave Dabay
>In article <1992Oct5...@matrix.cs.wright.edu>, iso...@matrix.cs.wright.edu writes:
STUFF DELETD
>>
>> Two were in the Washington D.C. Metro area and one in Central Ohio. In all
>> cases the sales people had an arrogant know-it-all attitude and were slow to
>> wait on anyone who was not one of the regular good ole' boys or appeared to
>> be there to buy something other than a high dollar piece of equipment.
>>
One store in the "metro" dc area that has been superb is the Maryland
Radio Center in Laurel, Maryland. They all are very capable and
knowledgable in almost all facets of Ham Radio. They were very
patient with me getting Novice, then tech, then General, and they even
offer their facility to a local club for testing (where I got my advanced)
If you have a problem with any thing they do/say just ask for Jerry
(he's the owner, but is almost always there)
They WILL take care of you...
dave
--
Dave Dabay Telecommunications Network Supervisor 703-831-5482 KD3PC
Radford University Computer Services Internet: dda...@ruacad.ac.runet.edu
iso...@matrix.cs.wright.edu
> Hey, weren't you the HAM who started the bad check thing?
>
> +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+
> | Andrew Chaboty | acha...@desire.wright.edu | Why in the world |
> | "Gamahuche" | Wright State University | would I want to speak |
> | KB8LUQ | Dayton, Ohio | for this university? |
> +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+
Hey, weren't you the HAM who started the Hamvention trashing thing?
73, Wes Soper WB8CEH
Ron Natalie
Actually, the good ol' boys don't buy anything either, so they don't get
waited on, they just go in to drink the free coffee on Saturday morning.
Actually, I suspect the poster was complaining about HRO (Woodbridge) and
EEB (Vienna). Neither of these stores does a lot of sales from the walk-in
crowd. I've found that their prices are steep (EEB even quoted me list price
on the FT-470) in the stores but competitive via the 800 number or when they're
manning hamfest booths next to each other.
-Ron
Willie Smith
>cases the sales people had an arrogant know-it-all attitude and were slow to
>wait on anyone who was not one of the regular good ole' boys or appeared to
>be there to buy something other than a high dollar piece of equipment.
The late great totally unlamented Tel-Com in Littleton Mass used to be
that way, but for some strange reason they went out of business. :+) I
lived less than 10 minutes away, but would happily drive to HRO in New
Hampshire to buy the latest repeater directory rather than be abused
at Tel-Com. Seems they just couldn't compete. :+)
Willie Smith
wp...@pictel.com
n1...@amsat.org
Faith Senie
Smith) writes:
> [... in response to a posting on the arrogant attitude of some radio stores'
> sales droids... ]
>
> The late great totally unlamented Tel-Com in Littleton Mass used to be
> that way, but for some strange reason they went out of business. :+) I
> lived less than 10 minutes away, but would happily drive to HRO in New
> Hampshire to buy the latest repeater directory rather than be abused
> at Tel-Com. Seems they just couldn't compete. :+)
>
I don't think I would have minded the attitudes of the folks at Tel-Com
quite so much if the place hadn't absolutely REEKED of cigarette smoke!
Being ignored is bad enough; being ignored when you want DESPARATELY
to get out the door before you GAG from the stench is quite another
matter. It got to a point where, if we decided to go up there for
something, I'd send Dan in; when he came out, we'd leave the windows
open all the way home to air him out, because he (and everything he bought)
generally stank of stale cigarettes after spending 5 minutes in their shop.
When Tel-Com went out of business, HRO in Salem, NH bought out some of
their small parts and put them on display up in their shop. I could
always tell which were the Tel-Com parts, just by smelling the packaging.
Gack!
I'm starting to be rather wishy-washy about going into Rivendell Electronics
in Derry, NH lately, too, because Noel and/or Pete seem to smoke on the job.
It's a major-league turnoff for me... (and yes, I'm responsible for
the no-smoking rule at one of the local club's meetings; I'm pretty close
to doing the same for the other club we belong to, too). Noel is not the
arrogant type, and is generally pretty helpful, but as far as I'm concerned
he'd probably do lots better business if he'd outlaw smoking in the shop.
The guys at HRO in Salem, bless their souls, do not smoke on the job (or if
they do, they do it where it doesn't pollute the air of the shop), and have
never been anything less than very helpful to us, even back when we weren't
on a first-name basis with them all! :-) (hi Gene!)
de Faith N1JIT
--
Faith M. Senie InterNet: f...@vos.stratus.com
Stratus Computer, Inc. InterNet: f...@hoop.sw.stratus.com
55 Fairbanks Blvd. Pkt Radio: n1...@ka1srd.ma.usa.na
Marlboro, MA 01752 Phone: (508)460-2632
"I'm afraid I don't know very much about Romulan Disruptor settings" --Spock
Richard Spanbauer
I found your posting scary. Has it all really come down to
discriminating who you do business with based on personal habits? What
next? Mode of dress out of date? Don't like their choice in cars?
Show a little tolerance, OM!
Rick Spanbauer, WB2CFV
PS. I don't smoke, no one in my house smokes, etc.
Marc Unangst
>I found your posting scary. Has it all really come down to
>discriminating who you do business with based on personal habits? What
>next? Mode of dress out of date? Don't like their choice in cars?
Sounds fine to me. If you had a choice between doing business with
someone that was constantly exhaling noxious fumes and contaminating
everything you bought from them with those fumes, and with someone
whose service, support, selection were just as good but WITHOUT
noxious fumes, who would you buy from?
Quite frankly, I don't care what someone else wants to burn and inhale
as long as they don't force me to inhale it as well.
--
Marc Unangst, N8VRH | "There are two ways to solve this problem:
m...@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us | the hard way, and the easy way. Let's start
| with the hard way."
| - W. Scheider, from a Physics lecture
Michael Covington
>>I don't think I would have minded the attitudes of the folks at Tel-Com
>>quite so much if the place hadn't absolutely REEKED of cigarette smoke!
>>to get out the door before you GAG from the stench is quite another
>
>I found your posting scary. Has it all really come down to
>discriminating who you do business with based on personal habits? What
>next? Mode of dress out of date? Don't like their choice in cars?
Not at all. Her point is that the smoke is *physically unpleasant* to
the customers. The objection is not that _they_ smoke, but that they
force _us_ to breathe acrid fumes.
I would question the business sense of people who can't be bothered to
remedy a problem that is making their store physically almost
intolerable to many of their potential customers.
>Show a little tolerance, OM!
Er... that was a YL, OM! :)
--
:- Michael A. Covington internet mcov...@uga.cc.uga.edu
:- Artificial Intelligence Programs phone 706 542-0359
:- The University of Georgia fax 706 542-0349
:- Athens, Georgia 30602 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI
Tad Cook
>quite so much if the place hadn't absolutely REEKED of cigarette smoke!
>Being ignored is bad enough; being ignored when you want DESPARATELY
>to get out the door before you GAG from the stench is quite another
>matter. It got to a point where, if we decided to go up there for
>something, I'd send Dan in; when he came out, we'd leave the windows
>open all the way home to air him out, because he (and everything he bought)
>generally stank of stale cigarettes after spending 5 minutes in their shop.
>
>in Derry, NH lately, too, because Noel and/or Pete seem to smoke on the job.
>It's a major-league turnoff for me... (and yes, I'm responsible for
>the no-smoking rule at one of the local club's meetings; I'm pretty close
>to doing the same for the other club we belong to, too). Noel is not the
>arrogant type, and is generally pretty helpful, but as far as I'm concerned
>he'd probably do lots better business if he'd outlaw smoking in the shop.
>
Maybe this is just a Left Coast phenomena, but does the state actually
allow smoking in retail stores? It has been illegal in Washington state
for quite sometime, although it took awhile for the retailers to catch
on.
You might inquire with your local lung association and find out about
the laws and enforcement.
In the Seattle area it is very rare to walk into a retail establishment
and see or smell cigarette smoke. We had a surplus electronics store
here in town (United Products) where everyone there smoked on the
job. The fire dept started hassling them, and then they put up signs
saying it was a private establishment and that if you didn't like
smoke, don't come in. This didn't help their case, as the law looks
at this like they would a restaurant that doesn't comply with health
dept rules, but posts disclaimers.
United Products went out of business awhile back. Don't know if
the fines from the fire dept had any part in it or not. I imagine
that given the choice, nicotine addicts may choose to close down
the source of their livlihood rather than give up tobacco.
--
Tad Cook | Phone: 206-527-4089 (home) | MCI Mail: 3288544
Seattle, WA | Packet: KT7H @ N7DUO.WA.USA.NA | 328...@mcimail.com
| Internet: t...@ssc.com or...sumax!ole!ssc!tad
Gary Coffman
>
>I would question the business sense of people who can't be bothered to
>remedy a problem that is making their store physically almost
>intolerable to many of their potential customers.
While there are people who are completely intolerant of cigarette smoke,
they are a minority. Most people don't mind, and some are positively
delighted to find a place that doesn't impose a draconian ban on smoking
in their establishments. It is a business decision, of course, do you
annoy the 25% of the population who smoke to appease the small vocal
minority of complainers, or do you alienate 25% of your customers to
keep that minority happy. The bulk of the population cares less one
way or the other, no smoking areas are a recent development on the
commercial scene.
Gary KE4ZV
Richard Spanbauer
>>In article <71...@transfer.stratus.com> f...@sw.stratus.com (Faith Senie) writes:
>Not at all. Her point is that the smoke is *physically unpleasant* to
>the customers. The objection is not that _they_ smoke, but that they
>force _us_ to breathe acrid fumes.
>I would question the business sense of people who can't be bothered to
>remedy a problem that is making their store physically almost
>intolerable to many of their potential customers.
Some customers, perhaps. Probably me, too. But I don't let it bug
me to the point I lose perspective on why I am doing business with
someone.
How much can one reasonably expect customer preferences to define
personal behaviour on the part of the owner? It seems to me that
one can reasonably expect quality of service and other business
related concerns of the owners, but it is entirely unreasonable
to indirectly define their personal behaviour. This might be more
clear to you if the issue wasn't smoking (given its recent
unpopularity) in the store, ie substitute age, ethnicity, race, etc
for familiar reasons we all agree are incorrect when used to
differentiate. Discrimination is wrong, whatever the reason given.
>>Show a little tolerance, OM!
>Er... that was a YL, OM! :)
Personal custom: I use OM as a genderless "pronoun" to refer to a
fellow ham.
>:- Michael A. Covington internet mcov...@uga.cc.uga.edu
Rick Spanbauer
Carl Oppedahl
cigarette smoke when visiting a store, whether it is a store for ham gear
or not.
.
Carl Oppedahl AA2KW (intellectual property lawyer)
30 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, NY 10112-0228
voice 212-408-2578 fax 212-765-2519
Trip Martin
> How much can one reasonably expect customer preferences to define
> personal behaviour on the part of the owner? It seems to me that
> one can reasonably expect quality of service and other business
> related concerns of the owners, but it is entirely unreasonable
> to indirectly define their personal behaviour. This might be more
> clear to you if the issue wasn't smoking (given its recent
> unpopularity) in the store, ie substitute age, ethnicity, race, etc
> for familiar reasons we all agree are incorrect when used to
> differentiate. Discrimination is wrong, whatever the reason given.
This isn't discrimination. Age, sex, ethnicity are things a person can't
change. That's why decisions based on those factors are called discrimination.
Smoking is something a person can control. It falls in a similar category
to the person's attitude towards his customers.
You wouldn't want to do business with someone who was rude or arrogant, would
you? Well, I consider smoking a form of rudeness. That person obviously
has little concern for how his actions affect other people. Now maybe you
don't find the smoke bothersome, but I (and many other people) do, and I
personally would rather hold my breath than breathe that crap in.
--
Trip Martin
ni...@acm.rpi.edu
--
Trip Martin
ni...@acm.rpi.edu
Richard Spanbauer
>In <1992Oct12....@sbcs.sunysb.edu> ri...@cs.sunysb.edu (Richard Spanbauer) writes:
>This isn't discrimination. Age, sex, ethnicity are things a person can't
>change. That's why decisions based on those factors are called discrimination.
>Smoking is something a person can control. It falls in a similar category
>to the person's attitude towards his customers.
discrimination: to act on the basis of prejudice
prejudice: an adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand
or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
At least that is how the dictionary I have defines these terms.
Whether or not prejudice is as a result of optional behavior is
not a factor. Would you consider discrimination against a person
who was disabled as a result of optional behavior, eg a motorcycle
accident, acceptable? Same arguments about religion, ie it is an
optional behavior.
In general, people will find both myself and my family in the
non smoking part of airplanes, restaurants, etc. OTOH, we don't
walk out of a restaurant if a seat in nonsmoking is unavailable.
We do this less out of a tolerance for smoke, but for a tolerance
of *people*. If we all had a bit more tolerance for the next guy
over, we might have a few less antenna ordinances :-)
BTW, we would tolerate you habit of holding your breath when the
first wisp of cigarette smoke passed by and probably would even
accommodate your habit of passing out for lack of oxygen ;-) ;-)
>Trip Martin
>ni...@acm.rpi.edu
73 -
Rick Spanbauer, WB2CFV
State University of New York
Charles Rissmeyer
Twitty, or Lulu, whatever her name is, went into the back room, pulled a rig
and gave it to me. Before I handed over the cash though, I decided to take
a look at the rig first. The box was mint and everything seemed like the
box had never been opened. But, when I removed the rig and actually looked
at the keypad, it was apparent the rig had been used. When I protested, she
lead me into the back room and let me pull the one I wanted myself. That was
a good thing since some of those rigs were slightly out of date, and I was
able to get the newest one.
If this could've happened in the store, what would they do with mail-order
sets?
Mike Berger
>In article <1992Oct11.1...@sbcs.sunysb.edu> ri...@cs.sunysb.edu (Richard Spanbauer) writes:
>>In article <71...@transfer.stratus.com> f...@sw.stratus.com (Faith Senie) writes:
>>>I don't think I would have minded the attitudes of the folks at Tel-Com
>>>quite so much if the place hadn't absolutely REEKED of cigarette smoke!
>[much deleted...]
>>>to get out the door before you GAG from the stench is quite another
>>
>>I found your posting scary. Has it all really come down to
>>discriminating who you do business with based on personal habits? What
>>next? Mode of dress out of date? Don't like their choice in cars?
>Not at all. Her point is that the smoke is *physically unpleasant* to
>the customers. The objection is not that _they_ smoke, but that they
>force _us_ to breathe acrid fumes.
*----
It's not a personal issue, it's a matter of good judgement. Have
you ever looked inside a two-way radio used by dispatchers for a
few years where smoking is allowed? I've seen chassies that
looked like they were plated in copper, just from the smoke
residue.
Now, you can buy YOUR equipment and components from a smoke-filled
warehouse. I prefer mine to be undamaged.
--
Mike Berger
Department of Statistics, University of Illinois
AT&TNET 217-244-6067
Internet ber...@atropa.stat.uiuc.edu
Jon Gefaell (KD4CQY)
preference. Obviously, Faith does not delight in second hand smoke, nor
in purchasing merchandise that has become damaged by the smoke. It was
also obvious from the above quote that Faith doesn't care what they do on
their own time, when they're not supposed to be servicing her as a
customer.
>Show a little tolerance, OM!
Hey OM, didja think that perhaps this isn't a OM yer talking to?
I'm just guessing, but from the narrative, and the name, I'd pegged
the gender at female. Oh yeah, that's a YL or an XYL, right? Sheeeesh...
> Rick Spanbauer, WB2CFV
>PS. I don't smoke, no one in my house smokes, etc.
That's wonderful...
Jon Gefaell (KD4CQY)
>>Er... that was a YL, OM! :)
>
> Personal custom: I use OM as a genderless "pronoun" to refer to a
> fellow ham.
>
>>:- Michael A. Covington internet mcov...@uga.cc.uga.edu
Hmmmm, interesting concept Young Lady...
Jon Gefaell (KD4CQY)
>
> discrimination: to act on the basis of prejudice
> prejudice: an adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand
> or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
>
> At least that is how the dictionary I have defines these terms.
I'd sure like to know what dictionary you're using.... You might be
able to get a refund on defective merchandise.
Rich Krum
Please also note that Faith is NOT insisting that those folks stop smoking--
My attitude is similar--I will depart a store or other business if there
is heavy smoling going on--and the best way to get me to buy a used anything
is to note that the owner is an non-smoker. I despise cleaning dead tobacco
smoke out of anything--I had enough of that in the Navy in the 70's.
BTW, your place, your rules, my place, my rules--we don't allow smoking in our
house either--not even my dear 3 pack-a-day mother (Who has the grace to not
complain).
I don't condemm the person that is addicted to tobacco--I merely avoid the
necessity to inhale that stuff (politely, I hope). I am badly affected
physically by the smoke--I simply cannot breathe properly if I am exposed to
smoke--I'm sure this is from damage to my lungs from being brought up in a
home with parents that went through 2-3 packs/day EACH.
I have always been able to quietly be sure the wind is blowing the smoke
away from me. A polite reguest normally stops the problem. Of course,
those that insist don't get invited back---
--rich
---
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Faith Senie
Spanbauer) writes:
> In article <71...@transfer.stratus.com> f...@sw.stratus.com (Faith Senie) writes:
>
> I found your posting scary. Has it all really come down to
> discriminating who you do business with based on personal habits? What
> next? Mode of dress out of date? Don't like their choice in cars?
>
> Show a little tolerance, OM!
>
> Rick Spanbauer, WB2CFV
>
> PS. I don't smoke, no one in my house smokes, etc.
When the mode of dress of the folks I do business with has a direct impact
on my health, yes, I will stop doing business with them.
When their choice in cars requires me to come home, throw everything I'm wearing
into the laundry and throw myself into the shower to get the air around me to
a point where I can breathe again, yes, I will stop doing business with them.
When their personal habits stick to their merchandise so strongly that I have
to leave it outside to air out for a day or two before I can use it, yes,
I stop doing business with them.
I stopped doing business with Tel-Com because I couldn't breathe in their shop.
If the smoking at Rivendell continues, I will be forced to stop doing business
with them for the same reason.
It's not a matter of tolerance, believe me...
Faith N1JIT
p.s. glad to hear you don't smoke!
--
Faith M. Senie InterNet: f...@vos.stratus.com
Richard Spanbauer
American Heritage Dictionary. Of course, Trip Martin pointed out
in private e-mail that the legal defintion of discrimination may
in fact be different. Dunno, but this thread is clearly getting
off track. Rick
Hugh Pepper
It is common (mis-)knowledge that secondary cigarette smoke is less bothersome
if a person sits in a red radio flyer wagon when the wheels are on oil soaked
rags, or.. better yet when standing on wood instead of concrete!! :-).
(sorry, just couldn't resist!!)
Hugh - KE3BI
hu...@ivy.unisys.com
------------------------------------------
Hugh M. Pepper |email: Hu...@ivy.unisys.com
KE3BI ('B`ad 'I`nfluence) |ph: 215-443-7500
Paramax Systems - |Ivyland PA, 18974
Richard Furuta
>
>I find it even more interesting, the concept of an X-YL, a used to be, Young
>Lady. Egad, I'm glad, I didn't invent that.
Perhaps to maintain parity we should start using
POM
for "Pre-Old Man" to represent the male condition that corresponds to YL.
It rolls off the tongue nicely. (Unfortunately "P" could also stand for
"pompous" so maybe we wouldn't be able to limit its application to the
young.)
--Rick
N3JGF
Brian Kantor
>Perhaps to maintain parity we should start using
> POM
>for "Pre-Old Man" to represent the male condition that corresponds to YL.
And then we can really be the "POMmy bastards" the Aussies keep calling us.
Argh!
- Brian
Rick Sterling - Test Eng
What category do beliefs fall in? ( ie: Religion, Politics, All hams should
learn CW at 20wpm, etc. )
Beliefs can be changed, therefore one can discriminate based on them, right?
Or how about personal preferences or esthetics? Now maybe you don't find the
odor of cooking fish (fill in your own particular obnoxious item here)
bothersome, but I (and many other people) do, and I personally would rather
hold my breath than breathe that crap in. ;-)
Richard Spanbauer
> What category do beliefs fall in? ( ie: Religion, Politics, All hams should
> learn CW at 20wpm, etc. )
> Beliefs can be changed, therefore one can discriminate based on them, right?
> Or how about personal preferences or esthetics? Now maybe you don't find the
> odor of cooking fish (fill in your own particular obnoxious item here)
> bothersome, but I (and many other people) do, and I personally would rather
> hold my breath than breathe that crap in. ;-)
Well, I have discovered that suggesting people learn to tolerate each
other, at least when the subject at hand is smoking, is most definitely
NOT "popularly correct" :-) Given the "oat bran" and "Jane Fonda
workout tape" tone of modern society, this is to be expected, I
suppose.
What was interesting is the reaction level of some people out there -
as someone who has been on Usenet for about 10 years now, I have to
say the flames do run considerably hotter (and bizarre) in 1992!
Rick Spanbauer
State University of NY/Stony Brook
Ron Miller
My wife is so allergic to cigarette smoke that if I go into a store (or
any other location) where people are smoking, when I go home I have
to change AND WASH my clothes and take a shower to get the smoke out
of my hair.
Not many places are worth that kind of trouble. Ham stores included.
FYI,
Ron
NW0U
Patrick St. Joseph Teahan Taber
|>that way, but for some strange reason they went out of business. :+) I
|>lived less than 10 minutes away, but would happily drive to HRO in New
|>Hampshire to buy the latest repeater directory rather than be abused
|>at Tel-Com. Seems they just couldn't compete. :+)
|>
Just for the record, Tel-Com is not totally unlamented. I liked the place, I liked the people who worked there. The smell was "distinctive" certainly, but -- hey -- my opinion was that it was a small price to pay for having a ham store 15 minutes from my house.
Jim and Fred were friendly when approached in a friendly fashion. They were brusque when giving advice. They absolutely flayed people who approached them with arrogance. I miss them.
I like HRO, I like Rivendell. I cannot count it a positive thing to have a ham store go out of business.
--
>>>==>PStJTT
Patrick St. Joseph Teahan Taber, KC1TD
I skied hell
John Paul Shalamskas
>In article <1992Oct12.0...@athena.cs.uga.edu> mcov...@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes:
>>
>>I would question the business sense of people who can't be bothered to
>>remedy a problem that is making their store physically almost
>>intolerable to many of their potential customers.
>
>While there are people who are completely intolerant of cigarette smoke,
>they are a minority. Most people don't mind, and some are positively
>delighted to find a place that doesn't impose a draconian ban on smoking
*zot* stuff deleted
>Gary KE4ZV
Sorry, Gary, but the MAJORITY of people dislike second-hand smoke.
Even the smokers I know dislike other people smoking around them.
Besides, there is the problem of smoke damage to the inventory.
Electronic equipment works better if there aren't stray resistances
in the circuit. Rubber parts don't degenerate as quickly in a
smoke-free environment. Connectors don't become intermittent as quickly.
Disk drives don't die as soon. The list goes on and on.
If an electronics store is eager for my business, they won't allow
smoking in their establishment. In fact, since cigarette smoke causes
me physical discomfort, I make every effort to avoid contact with it.
So any store with a "no smoking" policy will be inifintely more attractive
than one without.
So, put that in your pipe and smoke it :-)
John KJ9U/KH6
Richard Spanbauer
[text edited]
>Besides, there is the problem of smoke damage to the inventory.
>Electronic equipment works better if there aren't stray resistances
>in the circuit. Rubber parts don't degenerate as quickly in a
>smoke-free environment. Connectors don't become intermittent as quickly.
>Disk drives don't die as soon. The list goes on and on.
John, could you point us to the reference you're citing about
damage to electronic equipment by cigarette smoke? We've all seen
the ancient (IBM ?) illustration comparing the size of a smoke/hair,
etc particle to the distance of disk head to the platter, but you seem
to be posting from a position of a bit more knowledge than that.
Please post your refs, OM!
>John KJ9U/KH6
FYI, I am a bit pleased I started all this. I never knew I could
charge more for the "smoke free" FT-301D or FT-726 I plan to unload
at the hamfest next year. Man, I am really looking forward to
all that extra dough ;-) The moral dilemma that has me up nights
now is whether I should claim the high ground and refuse to sell
my 726 to a smoker...........
Nice weekend to all -
Rick Spanbauer, wb2cfv
State U of NY/Stony Brook
Tom Skelton
<1992Oct13.1...@sbcs.sunysb.edu> <Bw45I...@world.std.com>
Sender:
Reply-To: tske...@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Tom Skelton)
Followup-To:
Distribution: na
Organization: NCR E&M CLEMSON Liberty, SC
Keywords:
In article <Bw45I...@world.std.com> s...@world.std.com (Stevens R Miller)
writes:
>ri...@cs.sunysb.edu (Richard Spanbauer) writes:
>
>>In article <=lzz...@rpi.edu> ni...@acm.rpi.edu writes:
>>>In <1992Oct12....@sbcs.sunysb.edu> ri...@cs.sunysb.edu (Richard
Spanbauer) writes:
>>>This isn't discrimination. Age, sex, ethnicity are things a person can't
>>>change. That's why decisions based on those factors are called
discrimination.
>>>Smoking is something a person can control. It falls in a similar category
>>>to the person's attitude towards his customers.
>
>> discrimination: to act on the basis of prejudice
>
>Come on Rick, was this the *first* definition in your dictionary? In
>mine it's the third. The first is "the act of discriminating." The
>first under "discriminate" is "to make a clear distinction." I, for one,
>certainly *do* discriminate amongst vendors on the basis of who smokes
>and who doesn't, and I don't feel evil about it. I am merely a
>discriminating consumer.
>--
>Stevens R. Miller, J.D. Electronic Frontier Foundation Member
932
> Republican National Committee Member 90050367
> Amateur Radio Station WA4LDA
Prejudice??? Of course I am prejudiced! I want my kids to go to the best
schools, have the best opportunities, etc. I want to get the best job
situation for me and the best housing for my family. I want to have the
chance to live as long as possible, and shortening my life through first
or second hand smoke is my choice! I quit going to a particular gas station
because the cashiers always smoked and I walked out smelling like smoke.
Prejudice has nothing to do with right or wrong, does it? I thought it
was about choices, not about the underlying assumption that making a
choice for yourself is wrong.
Mr. Miller is right on target! Thanks!
Tom
WB4IUX
--
Mark Zenier
> FYI, I am a bit pleased I started all this. I never knew I could
> charge more for the "smoke free" FT-301D or FT-726 I plan to unload
> at the hamfest next year. Man, I am really looking forward to
> all that extra dough ;-) The moral dilemma that has me up nights
> now is whether I should claim the high ground and refuse to sell
> my 726 to a smoker...........
Just how much is the price premium? It sounds like a tech with a
vat of Formula 409, a dishwasher, and the equipment to realign the
radio could make a little money at it. (Or even more if they didn't
bother to realign.)
"Yup, only operated on sunday afternoons, by a a little old nonsmoker".
;-)
Mark Zenier ma...@ssc.wa.com
Alan Bloom
> John, could you point us to the reference you're citing about
> damage to electronic equipment by cigarette smoke?
I don't have any written references, but a friend of mine who makes his
living repairing amateur and commercial radio equipment told me that
smokers' radios tend to have lots of connector and grounding problems.
AL N1AL
John Paul Shalamskas
...and their operators tend to have lung and cardiovascular problems...
It never ceases to amaze me when an otherwise intelligent, thoughtful
person (like a DOCTOR, even!) would spend their own money to destroy
their own health of their own free will. Denial, what a concept.
Human nature being what it is, I guess we're all stuck with something
as obvious to others, yet unfathomable to ourselves. It just so happens
I am NOT blind to this particular bad habit.
On to our regularly scheduled programming...
(I have figured out why I like this newsgroup! It reminds me of
"The Itchy and Scratchy Show" -- completely unnecessary violence is *fun!*)
John KJ9U / KH6 shal...@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu
Bill Coleman
> [ Reference to smoking deleted ]
>
> It never ceases to amaze me when an otherwise intelligent, thoughtful
> person (like a DOCTOR, even!) would spend their own money to destroy
> their own health of their own free will. Denial, what a concept.
At one time my wife and I took some marital counseling from a psycologist
who was also a doctor of internal medicine.
She smoked. This bothered me and I asked her about it.
It turned out that she had known about the ill effects of tobacco back in
1964. She just never had a opportunity to quit. It would take 6 to 9 months
for her to completely stop. She couldn't afford that time. She had patients,
her mother wasn't doing well, and her daughter had problems as well.
Ironically, many of her patients were drug addicts kicking their habits.
I learned that nicotine is perhaps the second most addictive substance known
to man. (Caffine is #1!)
Sadly, our counseling ended when she learned she had cancer. They gave
her 6 months to live. That was summer of '87. We were never billed for the
last couple of sessions. (We've actually been doing quite well since then)
The bottom line, nicotine is incredibly addictive. If you start smoking,
you probably won't stop until it kills you. Don't start. If you do smoke,
stop, whatever the costs, or it will stop you. Dead. Soon.
--
Bill Coleman, AA4LR ! CIS: 76067,2327 AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA ! Internet: bcoleman%ha...@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.
WKOE...@esoc.bitnet
> ......
>The bottom line, nicotine is incredibly addictive. If you start smoking,
>you probably won't stop until it kills you. Don't start. If you do smoke,
>stop, whatever the costs, or it will stop you. Dead. Soon.
Even though this got nothing to do with our hobby at all, I have to state
that this is just not true. Y o u c a n s t o p s m o k i n g
if you are willing to quit the habit. Not just w a n t it. That's not
enough. And it's got to go through your mind. That's the biggest obstacle.
Once it's there, you can stop from one minute to the next. You don't believe
me? Try it, but make sure that your mind is set up properly first. I did it
twelve years ago.
Wolf.
Bill Coleman
Wolf, Congratulations.
I'm lucky. I never started smoking. I've seen its effects tear apart the lives
of several of my friends, though.
And it does have something to do with our hobby. I went to a hamfest this
weekend and was amazed at the large number of people who were smoking.
Fortunately for my lungs, the hamfest was outdoors.
