Butternut vs Cushcraft
Roger Pender
I have used a Butternut HF-6V with the optional 17 and 12 meter loading
coils for the past 20 years and have been very pleased with it. It is
not as good as a tri-band yagi at 50 feet; but it has given me
acceptable scores in both dx and stateside contests. I feel that it is
nearing the end of its usable life and would like to replace it. Does
anyone have any info on how the HF-9V compares with the "no-radial"
types of vertical antennas like the Cushcraft R-7000 or the Hy-Gain
DX-77? They would be easier to mount without the fuss of laying out 1/4
wave counterpoise wires (my old antenna is roof mounted); but I don't
want to sacrifice performance for convenience. I know that I would lose
80 meters; but I have a ground mounted HF-2V that could take of the
slack for that band.
Roger, N6GL
Gary Coffman
Roger, all end fed antennas need a counterpoise. If you don't supply one
deliberately, the currents will find an ad hoc one anyway. So if you want
predictable performance, string the radials, and ignore the hype about
vertical antennas that "don't need radials".
Gary
Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it |mail to ke...@bellsouth.net
534 Shannon Way | We break it |
Lawrenceville, GA | Guaranteed |
Jerry Flanders
back yard, unguyed, for the last 18 years. I took it down this past
summer and replaced the 2 plastic wire spacers and renewed the copper
wire. I put it back up after cleaning the other connections, retuned
it, and now expect it to last another 18 years. The hardware is SS -
I really expect it to last until the sun and weather eventually cracks
open the caps sometime in the next millenium. Maybe then just replace
the caps...
Jerry W4UK
On Fri, 05 Feb 1999 13:31:08 -0800, Roger Pender <n6...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
>
>
>I have used a Butternut HF-6V with the optional 17 and 12 meter loading
>coils for the past 20 years and have been very pleased with it. It is
>not as good as a tri-band yagi at 50 feet; but it has given me
>acceptable scores in both dx and stateside contests. I feel that it is
>nearing the end of its usable life and would like to replace it. Does
>anyone have any info on how the HF-9V compares with the "no-radial"
>types of vertical antennas like the Cushcraft R-7000 or the Hy-Gain
>DX-77? They would be easier to mount without the fuss of laying out 1/4
>wave counterpoise wires (my old antenna is roof mounted); but I don't
>want to sacrifice performance for convenience. I know that I would lose
>80 meters; but I have a ground mounted HF-2V that could take of the
>slack for that band.
>
>Roger, N6GL
>
Jerry Flanders
old "Zepp" end-fed high-impedance antenna (and it's modern
incarnation, the "J-Pole") that seem to function well without a
counterpoise. Would a counterpoise improve the j-pole? I have wondered
about this ever since I made up a simple one from coax and twin-lead
for a recent club demo and found it to work surprisingly well with
none.
Jerry W4UK
On Sat, 06 Feb 1999 00:30:18 GMT, ke...@bellsouth.net (Gary Coffman)
wrote:
><SNIP> all end fed antennas need a counterpoise. If you don't supply one
Gary Coffman
>Intuition tells me you are right about this, but nonetheless I see the
>old "Zepp" end-fed high-impedance antenna (and it's modern
>incarnation, the "J-Pole") that seem to function well without a
>counterpoise. Would a counterpoise improve the j-pole? I have wondered
>about this ever since I made up a simple one from coax and twin-lead
>for a recent club demo and found it to work surprisingly well with
>none.
This seems to be a perennially recurring thread. First, recall that any
hunk of metal can be made to radiate. So in that sense, J-poles, Zepps,
the over priced and over hyped "radialess" hunks of aluminum tubing sold
for HF, etc *work*. The question is, do they work predictably in every
situation? Without the deliberate counterpoise, the answer is no.
There will be antenna currents on the matching section, the feeder, and
the support structure. They are serving as the ad hoc counterpoise since
you didn't supply one. So the actual pattern you get won't be equivalent to
a halfwave vertical dipole or groundplane antenna which does have designed
in counterpoising.
Is that important? Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. It depends on the
details of a particular installation, and the pattern requirements of the
application. In general, the ad hoc counterpoise tends to elevate the
main lobe of the antenna, and adds multiple minor lobes. That's usually
undesirable. In pathological cases, it can make the antenna unsuitable
for its intended application.
Lack of a designed in countepoise can also lead to problems such as
"hot shack syndrome" if antenna currents follow the feeder back to the
shack. Most hams tend to try to treat that *symptom* rather than treat
the source of the problem, which is the lack of a proper countepoise
for the antenna. That's a mistake.
Me
add-ons. (which makes it an HF-9V)I purchased this from a Ham in Florida and
there was some pitting on the unit due to the salt air and the fact that he
only lived 100 yards from the ocean. I dismantled the antenna completely,
rubbed it all down with triple ought steel wool and put it back together. I
used a paste called Penetrox (available from an electrician) to coat all the
connections and provide corrosion protection. I installed the unit in my
yard and also buried 9 counterpoise wires. These are VERY important! I used
#12 stranded household wire which I had from other projects..and yes, I left
the insulation on them. Using a common spade, I buried the radials about an
inch to two inches just below the sod. Tuning the antenna was very easy and
I have made many contacts with it. Yes, it does require some minor
maintenance...winds will cause some of the connections to loosen over time
and I have had to replace two of the plastic insulators which are easily
purchased or even home made.
All in all, this is one great antenna and it even works very well on 2
meters! The SWR on 2 mtrs. is even lower than that on my Diamond dual band.
(try it on 2 mtr. sideband!)
This antenna is my mainstay and can always be counted on to perform well
for "short skip" when my 160 end fed or G5RV do not.
Roger Pender wrote in message <36BB631C...@ix.netcom.com>...
Gary Coffman
> I have been using a Butternut HF-6V to which I added the WARC and 6 meter
>add-ons. (which makes it an HF-9V)I purchased this from a Ham in Florida and
>there was some pitting on the unit due to the salt air and the fact that he
>only lived 100 yards from the ocean. I dismantled the antenna completely,
>rubbed it all down with triple ought steel wool and put it back together.
Oh dear, don't use steel wool. Microscopic bits of it break off and embed in
the aluminum. Each little bit becomes a center for corrosion (and RFI). Use
a Scotchbrite pad instead. (The industrial kind, also available at paint stores,
not the kitchen kind, that isn't aggressive enough.) This works wonderfully,
and leaves no different metals corrosion problem behind to haunt you down
the road.
Steel wool is Ok on steel, and Ok on wood, but don't use it on aluminum or
copper. Scotchbrite works better anyway, so aside from the small cost
difference, it is what you should use for everything. I buy it from my industrial
supplier, 25 9x5 pads to the box, and cut each pad in half, giving me 50 4.5x5
pads for $16. Wonderful stuff for cleaning up aluminum and copper.
Curt M. Breneman
>
> I have been using a Butternut HF-6V to which I added the WARC and 6 meter
> add-ons. (which makes it an HF-9V)I purchased this from a Ham in Florida and
> there was some pitting on the unit due to the salt air and the fact that he
> only lived 100 yards from the ocean. I dismantled the antenna completely,
> used a paste called Penetrox (available from an electrician) to coat all the
> connections and provide corrosion protection. I installed the unit in my
> yard and also buried 9 counterpoise wires. These are VERY important! I used
> #12 stranded household wire which I had from other projects..and yes, I left
> the insulation on them. Using a common spade, I buried the radials about an
> inch to two inches just below the sod. Tuning the antenna was very easy and
> I have made many contacts with it. Yes, it does require some minor
> maintenance...winds will cause some of the connections to loosen over time
> and I have had to replace two of the plastic insulators which are easily
> purchased or even home made.
> All in all, this is one great antenna and it even works very well on 2
> meters! The SWR on 2 mtrs. is even lower than that on my Diamond dual band.
> (try it on 2 mtr. sideband!)
> This antenna is my mainstay and can always be counted on to perform well
> for "short skip" when my 160 end fed or G5RV do not.
> Roger Pender wrote in message <36BB631C...@ix.netcom.com>...
Roger,
I also have an HF6VX antenna, and I'm very interested in your comment
about 2m performance. I never thought to try it there, since there is
no logical resonance mode at that frequency range. Did you do anything
special to the antenna to make it work on 2m?
Curt Breneman
KC2EBP
James W. KELLEY
with, so far, only four 35' radials, and the R7 is up about 8 or 10 feet.
The Butternut hears at least slightly better on all bands 80 thru 10 - and
considerably better on 15 and 40. At my previous QTH I had found that on
the chimney, the R7 worked better because I had trouble with the elevated
radial system for the Butternut. It was a mess of wires, and the XYL
hated them. At my new QTH, I can mount the antennas away from the house
and bury the radials.
I get reports of 2 S units better locally and stateside in A/B comparisons
on 40 phone. I did a test in the recent DX CW contest where I would call
3 or more times on the R7, and if I was unsuccessful would switch to the
Butternut. The half dozen times I did this, the DX station came back on
the first call with the Butternut. The bandwidth on the Butternut is
better - useable pretty much anywhere in the band with a tuner. That does
not seem to be the case with the R7.
I haven't tried to tune it up on 17 or 12 because it doesn't have coils
for those bands. The SWR is not real great on 20 (the tuner can take care
of it though), but it seems to get out just fine - I can work weak ones on
it. I have at least two friends who swear by them - one is a QRPer and
the other is an avid DXer. One guy has 16 25' radials, and the other just
has his coiled up around the base of the antenna. A local group of DXers
here did a comparison test of several popular vertical antennas, including
the Gap, R7, the Butternut, and one other. The Butternut was heard better
outside the contental US in every case except one on 17 meters.
In fairness to the R7, I think it can do a respectable job in comparison
to the Butternut at it's resonant frequency. It's just that the bandwith
of the antenna is narrower than the Butternut, and it doesn't seem to
perform as well as my Butternut when they are used outside of their
favorite part of the band.
But: The Butternut I own is kind of an odd bird. It's at least 5 feet
longer than the R7, which may partly explain why it hears better. It's
length corresponds more closely to the HF2V. It might be interesting to
try adding the 30 meter coil with the 20 meter tap, and a 15 meter shunt
to your HF2V as an experiment. It looks like that's what the previous
owner of my antenna, now SK, may have done. Either that, or Butternut
changed their HF6V design to a shorter antenna some years back. Just out
of curiosity, what is the SWR on your HF2V at 28 MHz? I wonder if they
use the same coils and caps for 80 and 40 on the HF2V and HF6V?
Bottom line though, since I put my Butternut back up, I haven't wanted to
use my R7.
73, Jim AC6XG