Spreader materials for Hex-Beam
Paulo Marcondes
I decided that the Hex-Beam would be a good bet for the
foreseable future.
I currently own an IC-735.
The question is what are the pros and cons of bamboo and
fiberglass spreaders?
I figure that I could get the bamboo spreaders at NO cost,
but they will eventually rotten and break.
Fiberglass material is expensive, but the way I see it may
last many years.
Then one issue arises... Would it be better to use
telescoping sections of FG tubes or a solid rod would be
better?
Next week I have an appointment with the FG salesman, so I
may have some answers (will post on the NGs r.r.a.a and
r.r.a.h)
Almost forgot to mention... I live in SE Brazil (sunny,
rainy), with a possible move to NE Brazil (really sunny,
quite dry) in the next months
--
Paulo E.P. Marcondes
pe...@osite.com.br
Yuri Blanarovich
>but they will eventually rotten and break.
Not if you impregnate them properly.
I have used latex based driveway surface coating, just paint or dip the rods in
the coating and let it dry. Very tough, long lasting and cheap.
73 and GL Yuri, K3BU, VE3BMV, VE1BY
Brian Kelly
Here's a link to the primary U.S. supplier of fiberglass tubing for
ham antennas.
http://www.mgs4u.com/fiberg.htm
You might find it useful for cost comparisons. Prices are in U.S.
Dollars, dimensionss are in inches/feet, weights are pounds.
w3rv
Paulo Marcondes
> You might find it useful for cost comparisons. Prices are in U.S.
> Dollars, dimensionss are in inches/feet, weights are pounds.
Thanks Brian, and the other who answered.
My impressions on this project are on
http://hamstuff.blogspot.com
--
Paulo E.P. Marcondes
Geólogo - Mestrando USP
pe...@osite.com.br
Max
> My impressions on this project are on
> http://hamstuff.blogspot.com
Just want to say that a good place to look for glasfiber
roods is compagnys that is making fishing poles,
kites and ultra light aeroplanes.
Regards Max
Dan/W4NTI
fiberglass. I saw a single 20 spreader for 19.95. That totals 160 bux.
Plus shipping. If you order from one of the 'major' quad companies they
wanted 320 bucks.
Think I found my spreaders.
Thanks guys.
Dan/W4NTI
"Max" <Max_...@post9.tele.dk> wrote in message
news:3e67c46f$0$147$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
Mark Keith
They also sell that liquid rubber stuff like you dip pliers, wrench
handles, etc, in. You could probably paint that stuff on in the same
way. I don't know if it's as cheap, but you can buy smaller quantities
of it I think.
Most auto parts and hardware stores carry it. MK
--
http://web.wt.net/~nm5k
Paulo Marcondes
>
> I just looked over the 'Max' site. It is very nice and I think cheap for
> fiberglass. I saw a single 20 spreader for 19.95. That totals 160 bux.
> Plus shipping. If you order from one of the 'major' quad companies they
> wanted 320 bucks.
I扉e found a local fiberglass company... 1" OD solid rods
are
USD 4.53/ meter (USD 1.38/ft). I haven't asked them about
shipping charges, but since they are in the same city, it
may be even free.
Paulo Marcondes
Dave has emailed me in PVT, and I liked his thoughts very
much.
Maybe one may come to this point after reading the whole
thread, but this was the earlier reply (I think).
Obviously he has given me permission to repost his email to
the NG.
On another mail, he also said he liked Yuri's idea of
coating the bamboo spreaders with latex driveway paint...
well, to Dave's reply:
--------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Spreader materials for Hex-Beam
Date: 5 Mar 2003 19:48:31 -0000
From: "Dave Platt" <dpl...@radagast.org>
<snip header>
>The question is what are the pros and cons of bamboo and
>fiberglass spreaders?
>I figure that I could get the bamboo spreaders at NO cost,
>but they will eventually rotten and break.
True 'nuff. If you do use bamboo, you would probably want
to dry it
well, and then apply a couple of coats of a good outdoor
varnish.
This would probably extent its lifetime by quite a bit by
sealing out
moisture. Probably best to varnish it _after_ bending it to
shape and
installing the wires, so that the varnish doesn't crack.
>Fiberglass material is expensive, but the way I see it may
>last many years.
Also true _if_ it's shielded from sunlight.
You might want to build one out of bamboo to see how well it
works for
you. This would reduce the cost of making mistakes during
construction and would give you more of a chance to make
adjustments.
Then, if it works well in practice, you could rebuild in
fiberglass
(either immediately, or when you first decide/need to do
some rework
on the antenna for other reasons).
>Then one issue arises... Would it be better to use
>telescoping sections of FG tubes or a solid rod would be
>better?
Telescoping sections will need some additional work at the
overlap
points. In this respect, rods would be simpler.
On the other hand, rods would probably be heavier for any
given amount
of stiffness.
>Almost forgot to mention... I live in SE Brazil (sunny,
>rainy), with a possible move to NE Brazil (really sunny,
>quite dry) in the next months
Rain will be hard on the bamboo.
Sunshine will be hard on both. I've been told that
fiberglass exposed
to direct sunlight will age fairly quickly.
Spraypainting the spreaders with an opaque sun-resistant
outdoor paint
after installing the wires would probably be a very good
idea. A
black enamel spraypaint would do the job (and would also
make the
antenna somewhat less visible).
Yuri Blanarovich
>>The question is what are the pros and cons of bamboo and
>>fiberglass spreaders?
>>I figure that I could get the bamboo spreaders at NO cost,
>>but they will eventually rotten and break.
>
>True 'nuff. If you do use bamboo, you would probably want
>to dry it
>well, and then apply a couple of coats of a good outdoor
>varnish.
>This would probably extent its lifetime by quite a bit by
>sealing out
>moisture. Probably best to varnish it _after_ bending it to
>shape and
>installing the wires, so that the varnish doesn't crack.
>
Interesting!
Why people ignore good tested sultion-advice and go for some "theoretical
probably" thing.
There is no cheaper and better solution as treating the bamboo with dirveway
sealant (black latex based coating). It is cheap compare to any coatings or
warnishes. It is resistant to wear, cars drive on it people walk, lasts for
years. It is black, shields the wood from UV. It is flexible, no problem with
bending. I discovered it by accident. Mixed my bucket of sealant with bamboo
stick, threw it in the pile of spare parts. Couple years later, this stick was
like new, while others deteriorated and cracked.
You can lead horse to the water.....
73 and GL
Yuri
Paulo Marcondes
> There is no cheaper and better solution as treating the bamboo with dirveway
> sealant (black latex based coating). It is cheap compare to any coatings or
> warnishes. It is resistant to wear, cars drive on it people walk, lasts for
> years. It is black, shields the wood from UV. It is flexible, no problem with
> bending. I discovered it by accident. Mixed my bucket of sealant with bamboo
> stick, threw it in the pile of spare parts. Couple years later, this stick was
> like new, while others deteriorated and cracked.
Yuri, I believe your solution will work pretty well, but I
can't figure what this driveway sealant is made of.
I can look for it in my city. If I can't find it here, I
think nobody else in the coutry may found it too.
If you can supply some information on brands, or
manufacturers, or even chemical composition...I can do some
scrounging in the market...
The main reason it may be hard to find is that we are not
very used to asphalt garages and alikes.
Paulo Marcondes
> If you can supply some information on brands, or
> manufacturers, or even chemical composition...I can do some
> scrounging in the market...
Oops, re-reading your first article...
you said "latex based".
That may be enough.
Ian White, G3SEK
>Paulo Marcondes wrote:
>> If you can supply some information on brands, or
>> manufacturers, or even chemical composition...I can do some
>> scrounging in the market...
>
>Oops, re-reading your first article...
>
>you said "latex based".
>
>That may be enough.
>
different ways.
In the USA, "latex" is used for all kinds of water-based emulsion
paints, many of which would obviously be quite unsuitable for this
application. In Britain we call these "emulsion paints", and "latex" is
reserved for paints that really do contain natural rubber latex.
Usage in Brazil may be something else again.
The "driveway" part of Yuri's description might be more helpful - look
for something that forms a thick, tough, flexible, waterproof skin.
--
73 from Ian G3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
Yuri Blanarovich
>If you can supply some information on brands, or
>manufacturers, or even chemical composition...I can do some
>scrounging in the market...
Last time I used it was back in Canada. Latex here generally means that it is
water soluble while it is still wet. When it dries up, it is water resistant,
but it also allows some breathing. Nice when working with it, you can wash
spills with water. When it dries, you can drive car or tank over it, it will
not peel or blister. Has very good adhesion and endurance. It is thin, you can
apply two coats for extra protection.
When I bought new can of this sealant, I needed to mix it, emulsion was on the
top, and you can thin it with water if needed. It is more like some kind of
carbon powder, rather than tar like substance.
It is cheap and you can resurface your driveway with remainder.
No idea what it would be called elsewhere, maybe we need to set up distribution
:-)
Yuri
J. McLaughlin
http://www.apoc.com/Gardner-5-02/datasheets/053.HTM
http://www.fbcchem.com/asphalt/driveway.htm
http://www.handymanclub.com/document.asp?cID=70&dID=755
The latter reference has a long list of manufactures at the end of the
article.
Let us know what such products are in PY-land. 73 Mac N8TT
--
J. Mc Laughlin - Michigan USA
Home: J...@Power-Net.Net
Office: J...@McLMcL.Com
"Yuri Blanarovich" <k3...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030308101017...@mb-mu.aol.com...
Paulo Marcondes
>
> It might be that these URLs will help:
Very helpfull pointers, J. specially the last.
> The latter reference has a long list of manufactures at the end of the
> article.
Unfortunately none of them available at my DIY shop.
> Let us know what such products are in PY-land. 73 Mac N8TT
But, thanks to your post and Ian's explanation of "latex"
meaning, I was able to identify a suitable product.
Well, latex here means exactly (or almost) that: natural
rubber, except when applied to paints, where they are most
of the time PVA based.
The sealant I've found this morning (before even powering
the 'puter) in the DIY shop was described in the label as
water-based asphalt emulsion. Its used over exposed
concrete, to make it more imprevious, as for example under a
garden. It MUST be hidden from UV, so it is covered with
earth or a thin concrete mix. You got it...
The manufacturer is (AFAIK) a local one, Otto Baumgart
Group. The product name is (if I recall correctly) VEDAPREN.
It is a 2 gallon can and costs about US$ 5.
Much cheaper than paint for the bulk. I should not have
other use for it besides treating wooden antenna frames or
prepping the antenna base on the rooftop of the building. I
live in a 19 (how much I said previously) storey building,
with 36 apartments. The rooftop is plain, and over it there
are TV antennas and lightning arrestors (is it the name?),
that Franklyn (Ben Franklyn) type. And warning lights (for
pilots?).
Have been up there just one time. I may have to go there
more often.
J. McLaughlin
Portuguese. It appears that VEDAPREN is good for sealing out water.
However, the manufacturer seems to say that VEDAPREN should be covered
with something to keep sun light from its surface. This is unexpected.
Might have a language problem as the product is shown coating a roof.
You may need to cover the VEDAPREN with black, outdoor paint. You
might wish to talk to an engineer at the company to find out what
protection is needed from the sun - if any.
Take a look here:
http://www.vedacit.com.br/produtos/fichas/vedapren.htm
Good luck with your project.
73 Mac N8TT
--
J. Mc Laughlin - Michigan USA
Home: J...@Power-Net.Net
"Paulo Marcondes" <pe...@osite.com.br> wrote in message
news:3E6AA5B2...@osite.com.br...
A great place to place an antenna!
Dick Carroll
"Ian White, G3SEK" wrote:
> The "driveway" part of Yuri's description might be more helpful - look
> for something that forms a thick, tough, flexible, waterproof skin.
>
I question the longevity of any driveway coating compound I've seen
so far. I have an asphalted driveway which I coat each year because
it expands in summer and contracts in winter and each fall is full of
small cracks which would surely leach water and in a few seasons
cause the layer of asphalt to break up. So each year it gets renewed.
Using the stuff on a wooden antenna support may be another story.
Dick Carroll
Dick Carroll wrote:
I should have added that there are quality variations in the brands of the
compounds and some definitely
are more durable than others. I avoid the mostly pine pitch compounds in
favor of those with
asphalt or latex/rubber ingredients
Dick
Paulo Marcondes
>
> Dear Paulo: I can read Spanish, but have some problems with
> Portuguese. It appears that VEDAPREN is good for sealing out water.
> However, the manufacturer seems to say that VEDAPREN should be covered
> with something to keep sun light from its surface. This is unexpected.
> Might have a language problem as the product is shown coating a roof.
> You may need to cover the VEDAPREN with black, outdoor paint. You
> might wish to talk to an engineer at the company to find out what
> protection is needed from the sun - if any.
>
> Take a look here:
> http://www.vedacit.com.br/produtos/fichas/vedapren.htm
J., your portuguese reading (or guessing) is pretty good.
The infomation I've read from the label is exactly the same.
I've not browsed the 'net prior to browsing the DIY shop...
It may be an interesting problem to solve... this of using
roof sealant to treat bamboo spreaders...
But... browsing their website...it seems that they may carry
a different product which may better suit the application.
Isn't it funny that the link had to come from you? Thanks
for that.
Paulo Marcondes
> However, the manufacturer seems to say that VEDAPREN should be covered
> with something to keep sun light from its surface. This is unexpected.
> Might have a language problem as the product is shown coating a roof.
This is only for the regular (black) VEDAPREN, there is
another one, white, which does not require shielding from
sunlight.
I am not specialist in this field... It happened just to
know that there was something similar to what Yuri
described... Now, I have a pretty good answer.
Mike Coslo
> I should have added that there are quality variations in the brands
> of the compounds and some definitely are more durable than others. I
> avoid the mostly pine pitch compounds in favor of those with asphalt
> or latex/rubber ingredients
Once upon a time, Hams used to soak things like homebrew wood balanced
line spreaders in Paraffin for a while to water/weatherproof them. Long
items like bamboo might be a bit of a nuisance to totally soak, but
would be do-able.
- Mike KB3EIA -
J. McLaughlin
It is unexpected for the black VEDAPREN to need protection from
sunlight and for the white not to need protection. That is opposite to
what I expect.
It is possible that the "white" is the "black" with the addition of
something.
I wonder if an error was made in what was written. It seems wise to
contact the company and to talk to one of their experts - make sure the
person you talk to does not just read a data sheet.
Yuri has sent you in the right direction.
Hope to hear you on the air.
73 Mac N8TT
--
J. Mc Laughlin - Michigan USA
Home: J...@Power-Net.Net
Office: J...@McLMcL.Com
"Paulo Marcondes" <pe...@osite.com.br> wrote in message
news:3E6B77BD...@osite.com.br...
Paulo Marcondes
> Dear Paulo:
> It is unexpected for the black VEDAPREN to need protection from
> sunlight and for the white not to need protection. That is opposite to
> what I expect.
The same happened to me. I was a bit surprised when I read
that it has to be convered from sunlight.
> It is possible that the "white" is the "black" with the addition of
> something.
Yes, probably. But there is also a difference in
application. The black is for areas that will have traffic,
the white if for areas whitout traffic.
> I wonder if an error was made in what was written. It seems wise to
> contact the company and to talk to one of their experts - make sure the
> person you talk to does not just read a data sheet.
Yes, I'll surely do that.
> Yuri has sent you in the right direction.
> Hope to hear you on the air.
Yes, I thank Yuri for that. Easy, cheap solution but not
cheap results... :)
Hope to be on air soon. I first have to arrange a power
supply. I read an article an hour ago, think it was in
r.r.a.homebrew... about hacking some PC supplies to power
radios.
here it it:
http://www.antennex.com/preview/archive3/powers.htm
Jimmy
resin and hung it from a tree to harden. Finished it off by wrapping in
fiberglass, more resin and painting with automotive paint.
"Mike Coslo" <mj...@psu.edu> wrote in message
news:3E6CC2F9...@psu.edu...