Novice seeks advice - Using 5/8 CB vertical on 10 meters
sto...@ora.fda.gov
I recently obtained a Sirtel CB 5/8 vertical antenna for a bargain price.
The antenna appears to be solidly constructed and consists of a 5/8 vertical
(~18ft) element with 8 radial elements and a copper coil load. I have a ten
foot wooden mast to mount the antenna. Can anyone provide suggestions or
advice for using this antenna for 10 meter? Any comments are welcome.
73,
Steve / KA3TWU
sto...@ora.fda.gov
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W6RCecilA
>
> Hi there!
>
> I recently obtained a Sirtel CB 5/8 vertical antenna for a bargain price.
> The antenna appears to be solidly constructed and consists of a 5/8 vertical
> (~18ft) element with 8 radial elements and a copper coil load. I have a ten
> foot wooden mast to mount the antenna. Can anyone provide suggestions or
> advice for using this antenna for 10 meter? Any comments are welcome.
Yep, throw it away, build a rotatable dipole, and gain about an 'S' unit.
--
73, Cecil, W6RCA http://people.delphi.com/CecilMoore
Karl
I've been using a CB vintage 5/8 wave groundplane for the past ten years and
have had excellent results. So just go ahead a put it up and have a good
time. As for tuning it, just slide one or two sections in or out until you
obtain a satisfactory return loss. As for the w6rca comment about throwing
it away and use a rotatable dipole, he needs to do some studying.
73's
Karl
sto...@ora.fda.gov wrote in message <73hebn$4k5$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Hi there!
>
>I recently obtained a Sirtel CB 5/8 vertical antenna for a bargain price.
>The antenna appears to be solidly constructed and consists of a 5/8
vertical
>(~18ft) element with 8 radial elements and a copper coil load. I have a ten
>foot wooden mast to mount the antenna. Can anyone provide suggestions or
>advice for using this antenna for 10 meter? Any comments are welcome.
>
Richard Carroll
W6RCecilA wrote:
> sto...@ora.fda.gov wrote:
> >
> > Hi there!
> >
> > I recently obtained a Sirtel CB 5/8 vertical antenna for a bargain price.
> > The antenna appears to be solidly constructed and consists of a 5/8 vertical
> > (~18ft) element with 8 radial elements and a copper coil load. I have a ten
> > foot wooden mast to mount the antenna. Can anyone provide suggestions or
> > advice for using this antenna for 10 meter? Any comments are welcome.
>
> Yep, throw it away, build a rotatable dipole, and gain about an 'S' unit.
Nonsense! Put it up, use a tuner if you have one and USE it!! When 10 meters is
open,
a single s-unit is of no consequence whatever. When it is not open, several
s-units won't
really do you any good.
Several years ago (tailend of last sunspot cycle) my nephew got a tech plus
license. I
gave him an old Super Penetrator to use on 10 meters with his Atlas 210. Running
50 watts, and NOT using a tuner, just feeding direct-( it had a very decent
SWR,<2to1)
he worked stations all over the world with it on 10 meter SSB. Go for it and don't
listen to too much negative nonsense from the technocrats who would insist that
all of ham radio be "optimal" and must be done at best possible efficiency.
They just don't know any better.
73, Dick W0EX
THIS sort of stuff is why you will ** never** rival Kurt.
Ray
>> > I recently obtained a Sirtel CB 5/8 vertical antenna for a bargain price.
>> > The antenna appears to be solidly constructed and consists of a 5/8 vertical
>> > (~18ft) element with 8 radial elements and a copper coil load. I have a ten
>> > foot wooden mast to mount the antenna. Can anyone provide suggestions or
>> > advice for using this antenna for 10 meter? Any comments are welcome.
>
>> Yep, throw it away, build a rotatable dipole, and gain about an 'S' unit.
>
> Nonsense! Put it up, use a tuner if you have one and USE it!! When 10 meters is
>open,
>a single s-unit is of no consequence whatever. When it is not open, several
>s-units won't
>really do you any good.
I agree, when 10 is open, you can work the world QRP into a dummy
load! I too am using an 11-meter groundplane antenna (either 5/8 or 1/2 wave,
never did figure out which) on 10 meters and it works better than any dipole
I've tried.
>he worked stations all over the world with it on 10 meter SSB. Go for it and don't
>listen to too much negative nonsense from the technocrats who would insist that
>all of ham radio be "optimal" and must be done at best possible efficiency.
>They just don't know any better.
Some folks just don't have much use for something that comes from the
world of CB....
73 de
-==*>Ray - KC2DCG<*==-
-------------------------------------
In the grander scheme of things, the
historical value of what we have done
here is nil. -- proverb
-------------------------------------
Ray
>Hi there!
>
>I recently obtained a Sirtel CB 5/8 vertical antenna for a bargain price.
>The antenna appears to be solidly constructed and consists of a 5/8 vertical
>(~18ft) element with 8 radial elements and a copper coil load. I have a ten
>foot wooden mast to mount the antenna. Can anyone provide suggestions or
>advice for using this antenna for 10 meter? Any comments are welcome.
>
Steve,
I've been using an 11-meter vertical on 10 with excellent results.
Not sure if this one is 1/2 or 5/8 wave, but worst SWR in the 10 meter band is
well below 1.5:1, WITHOUT using a tuner! Suggestions? Mount the antenna and
ground it according to good practice and have a blast. I've been getting 59's
from Europe, the West Coast (I'm in NYS) and South America...
Mark Keith
>
> Hi there!
>
> I recently obtained a Sirtel CB 5/8 vertical antenna for a bargain price.
> The antenna appears to be solidly constructed and consists of a 5/8 vertical
> (~18ft) element with 8 radial elements and a copper coil load. I have a ten
> foot wooden mast to mount the antenna. Can anyone provide suggestions or
> advice for using this antenna for 10 meter? Any comments are welcome.
A 5/8 makes a good 10m antenna, but that one you describe is not quite
the average 5/8 wave. It's a little short, and kinda funky setup with 8
radials. But should work fine. The swr may not end up high enough to
worry about. If it does , try shortening the radiator a bit.MK
Mark Keith
>
> sto...@ora.fda.gov wrote:
> >
> > Hi there!
> >
> > I recently obtained a Sirtel CB 5/8 vertical antenna for a bargain price.
> > The antenna appears to be solidly constructed and consists of a 5/8 vertical
> > (~18ft) element with 8 radial elements and a copper coil load. I have a ten
> > foot wooden mast to mount the antenna. Can anyone provide suggestions or
> > advice for using this antenna for 10 meter? Any comments are welcome.
>
never had a dipole that would outplay a 5/8 gp at the same height on
10m. Most the people you work on 10m are either locals or dx. Very
little middle ground. A good 5/8 will leave the dipole in the dust on
10m. MK
W6RCecilA
> I have
> never had a dipole that would outplay a 5/8 gp at the same height on
> 10m. Most the people you work on 10m are either locals or dx. Very
> little middle ground. A good 5/8 will leave the dipole in the dust on
> 10m. MK
Give us a break, Mark. A 5/8 has a maximum gain over a 1/4WL of 3dB
which is almost never realized in reality. A dipole has 6+dB gain
over a 1/4WL and a low radiation angle to boot if the height is
greater than 1/2WL which is almost always the case on 10m where
1/2WL is around 20ft. "Leave the dipole in the dust" indeed.
A 10m rotatable dipole at 40ft has 2dBi gain at 4ºTOA and almost
8dBi gain at 13ºTOA. Think about it. When one uses a rotatable dipole,
one is taking away radiation from two directions and phasing it in two
other directions. How can an omnidirectional antenna compete with that?
W6RCecilA
> What kind of dipole, horizontal or vertical?
What kind of "ROTATABLE dipole", horizontal or vertical?????? I did
NOT suggest just a dipole. A 10m ROTATABLE dipole at 25-40ft high does
two things. It more than doubles the maximum radiated power in the
dipole's favored direction compared to a 5/8WL vertical and it gives
nulls off the ends to cut down on unwanted QRM during receive. You need
to go to phased verticals to equal the low-angle radiation of the high
dipole according to EZNEC.
As soon as I get time, I'm going to put up a 17m rotatable dipole
fed with 450 ohm ladder-line that will cover all HF ham frequencies
above 14MHz.
W6RCecilA
> What plane is the dipole rotatable in, the horizontal or vertical?
Horizontal. I'm having trouble visualizing why one would ever want
a rotatable vertical dipole since if it was rotated, it wouldn't
be vertical anymore.
Bill
>
> W6RCecilA wrote:
> >
> > sto...@ora.fda.gov wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi there!
> > >
> > > I recently obtained a Sirtel CB 5/8 vertical antenna for a bargain price.
> > > The antenna appears to be solidly constructed and consists of a 5/8 vertical
> > > (~18ft) element with 8 radial elements and a copper coil load. I have a ten
> > > foot wooden mast to mount the antenna. Can anyone provide suggestions or
> > > advice for using this antenna for 10 meter? Any comments are welcome.
> >
> > Yep, throw it away, build a rotatable dipole, and gain about an 'S' unit.
> never had a dipole that would outplay a 5/8 gp at the same height on
> 10m. Most the people you work on 10m are either locals or dx. Very
> little middle ground. A good 5/8 will leave the dipole in the dust on
> 10m. MK
--
Please remove the word "NOREPLY" from the email adress. Sorry for the
inconvenience, but it helps keep down the spam.
Bill
>
> Mark Keith wrote:
> > I have
> > never had a dipole that would outplay a 5/8 gp at the same height on
> > 10m. Most the people you work on 10m are either locals or dx. Very
> > little middle ground. A good 5/8 will leave the dipole in the dust on
> > 10m. MK
>
> which is almost never realized in reality. A dipole has 6+dB gain
> over a 1/4WL and a low radiation angle to boot if the height is
> greater than 1/2WL which is almost always the case on 10m where
> 1/2WL is around 20ft. "Leave the dipole in the dust" indeed.
>
> A 10m rotatable dipole at 40ft has 2dBi gain at 4ºTOA and almost
> 8dBi gain at 13ºTOA. Think about it. When one uses a rotatable dipole,
> one is taking away radiation from two directions and phasing it in two
> other directions. How can an omnidirectional antenna compete with that?
Gary Williams
>
> Hi there!
>
> I recently obtained a Sirtel CB 5/8 vertical antenna for a bargain price.
> The antenna appears to be solidly constructed and consists of a 5/8 vertical
> (~18ft) element with 8 radial elements and a copper coil load. I have a ten
> foot wooden mast to mount the antenna. Can anyone provide suggestions or
> advice for using this antenna for 10 meter? Any comments are welcome.
>
> Steve / KA3TWU
> sto...@ora.fda.gov
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
5 years, works well.
Gary
kmort...@magenta-research.com
sto...@ora.fda.gov wrote:
> Hi there!
>
> I recently obtained a Sirtel CB 5/8 vertical antenna for a bargain price.
> The antenna appears to be solidly constructed and consists of a 5/8 vertical
> (~18ft) element with 8 radial elements and a copper coil load. I have a ten
> foot wooden mast to mount the antenna. Can anyone provide suggestions or
> advice for using this antenna for 10 meter? Any comments are welcome.
>
> 73,
> Steve / KA3TWU
> sto...@ora.fda.gov
Just try shortening the antenna an inch at a time and check the SWR after
each adjustment. You should be able to get an SWR of 1.5 to 1 without too
much effort.
Keith
Mark Keith
> Give us a break, Mark. A 5/8 has a maximum gain over a 1/4WL of 3dB
> which is almost never realized in reality. A dipole has 6+dB gain
> over a 1/4WL and a low radiation angle to boot if the height is
> greater than 1/2WL which is almost always the case on 10m where
> 1/2WL is around 20ft. "Leave the dipole in the dust" indeed.
>
> A 10m rotatable dipole at 40ft has 2dBi gain at 4ºTOA and almost
> 8dBi gain at 13ºTOA. Think about it. When one uses a rotatable dipole,
> one is taking away radiation from two directions and phasing it in two
> other directions. How can an omnidirectional antenna compete with that?
Also being vertically polorizised helps for the locals. A dipole might
be better to a few select stations but I bet overall the gp would win to
most stations. Ground wave to locals no contest. Also I'm not using
modeling to determine this. I've tried em in the real world.
From what I've seen in the real world use, I'll stick with a good 5/8
gp. I've NEVER had a dipole beat a 5/8 gp in the real world to #1 local
ground wave stations, #2 dx also.
Also with the dipole to rotate , you will need a rotor , or go outside
to turn. All I can say is try it out. Leave the dipole in the dust?
Indeed...Also as another test, I have compared a 17m 5/8 gp against a
slew of wire dipole antennas on 17m. Guess which antenna won every time
to all paths? MK
W6RCecilA
> THIS sort of stuff is why you will ** never** rival Kurt.
Not surprising since I never intended or planned to rival Kurt.
The fellow asked for my opinion and I gave it. I am following
it myself. Contrary to your opinion, it is not nonsense that one
'S' unit is often the difference between a copyable signal and one
that is not copyable. How do you give yourself permission to mount
an ad hominem attack concerning an opinion?
lous...@pacbell.net
>
> W6RCecilA wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hi there!
> > >
> > > I recently obtained a Sirtel CB 5/8 vertical antenna for a bargain price.
> > > The antenna appears to be solidly constructed and consists of a 5/8 vertical
> > > (~18ft) element with 8 radial elements and a copper coil load. I have a ten
> > > foot wooden mast to mount the antenna. Can anyone provide suggestions or
> > > advice for using this antenna for 10 meter? Any comments are welcome.
> >
> never had a dipole that would outplay a 5/8 gp at the same height on
> 10m. Most the people you work on 10m are either locals or dx. Very
> 10m. MK
Put it up and go with it. Any antenna is better than no antenna.
Lou
KB6FFT
W6RCecilA
> That's the advice of a professional engineer???
He didn't ask for advice and I'm not a professional engineer.
He asked for opinions. If I had said my opinion was to go with
the vertical, I would have been lying.
Richard Carroll
W6RCecilA wrote:
> Richard Carroll wrote:
> > THIS sort of stuff is why you will ** never** rival Kurt.
>
>
> The fellow asked for my opinion and I gave it. I am following
> it myself. Contrary to your opinion, it is not nonsense that one
> 'S' unit is often the difference between a copyable signal and one
> that is not copyable.
"Often"? Don't think so. And darn sure not on an open 10 meter
band.You'd advise him to refrain from getting his station on the air
with a very usable
vertical antenna until he can "build a rotatable dipole" that *might*
get him a signal report
that is a single s-unit higher??? That's the advice of a professional
engineer???
And NO extra class ham is more than Novice qualified, as you have so
often spewed??? Yeah, Right!!!
> How do you give yourself permission to mount
> an ad hominem attack concerning an opinion?
Well, them that needs one gets it.
Dick C
Joe K7JOE
This should work very well for you. In most cases, simply
shortening the vertical radiator about 6 to 8 inches should allow the
antenna to resonate in the 10M band.
In some instances, one must adjust the matching coil, but only in
very rare circumstances.
No need to shorten the 8 radial elements usually.
Try it and see what happens.
Joe
K7JOE in Portland OR
sto...@ora.fda.gov wrote:
>
> Hi there!
>
> I recently obtained a Sirtel CB 5/8 vertical antenna for a bargain price.
> The antenna appears to be solidly constructed and consists of a 5/8 vertical
> (~18ft) element with 8 radial elements and a copper coil load. I have a ten
> foot wooden mast to mount the antenna. Can anyone provide suggestions or
> advice for using this antenna for 10 meter? Any comments are welcome.
>
> 73,
> Steve / KA3TWU
> sto...@ora.fda.gov
>
m0bqq
loads up well on 12m. You could even remove the coil to make a 1/4W
20m vert and add a couple of radials then feed it with 450 Ohm feeder
to a balanced tuner. I've tried that as well and it works well on 20
- 10 meters. I know it would not be balanced but it worked and as I
have a small yard (5M x 4M) I'm glad to get anything working.
Good luck,
Jon M0BQQ
> Steve,
> I've been using a CB vintage 5/8 wave groundplane for the past ten years and
Richard Earl
You have received many replies all pointing to the fact that you should
"just go ahead an try it".
I agree.
No one has said that it's a bad idea.
Hope you have many years of success and enjoyment when you up-grade your
Ham Radio ticket.
You are more fortunate than most hams to enter the Amateur Radio Service
at a time when 10 meter propagation is on the up-swing. Also a time when
internet access provides us all with information and advise, from others
with discussion, at our finger-tips.
I have found (after 45 years of operation from "both sides of the pond")
that the most rewarding facet of ham radio is satisfaction from the
knowledge that I have taken the time to study and experiment with
equipment and antennas.
I'm sure that when you explore the many avenues of the Amateur Radio
Service you will find the same reward.
GL es 73
Rich
W9JUC
P.S. After you operate 10 meters for a while explore this web site.
http://homepage.interaccess.com/~jpearl/DeltaXray.html