In article <
98duia973viui0rt6...@4ax.com>,
That's the very site I checked on my phone when I found the bin and
said "Hmmm, do I want these?" :-)
They all have a V2 on the manufacturer's ID plate. One of the five
has a high enough serial number that it probably has the newer final;
the others are the original V2 final.
>Incidentally, what's with the 33 cm wavelength notation? I'll start
>using wavelength instead of frequency when HP, TEK, or some other
>reputable vendor supplies a frequency counter or generator calibrated
>in wavelength instead of the usual frequency or period.
Awww, I'll bet you even say "2 meters" sometimes ;-)
It's a potato/potahtoe issue, I think. Sometimes I say "440", other
times I say "70 cm". Dualing terms, as it were :-)
>OK, portable operation. That means mounted on top of a fiberglass
>extension pole or floppy PVC pipe.
Yup.
Noted - these are consistent with what I'd inferred from reading some
of the repeater-network writeups.
>Hint: 900 MHz radios don't like high VSWR antennas. I suggest you
>optimize the antenna for the 902 MHz TX area.
Valuable hint indeed, and I'd sorta figured that the TX part was
what's important, especially as the band and split are fairly wide.
>Y'er right about that. Worse, the banana jacks and such tend to make
>the length of the elements rather variable, which is probably ok for a
>simple antenna, but not so great if you want to build something
>better, like a double skirted ground plane. I would save the ground
>plane for the antenna of last resort.
Agreed.
>>- Several people have published designs for 33 cm J-poles, often with
>> a collinear structure for higher gain. Fairly predictable but
>> need some tuning during construction. Go-kit-friendly if installed
>> in a fiberglass or PVC radome tube.
>
>A PVC radome will detune the antenna, often in an unpredictable
>manner. Also, before you build something inside a plastic or
>fiberglass pipe, put a piece of the stuff in the microwave oven and
>see if it gets hot. If it does, it's an RF absorber.
Yes. Buying radome-grade fiberglass tubing would probably make sense
in this case.
>I have a bad attitude about J-poles. I'll let someone else proclaim
>what a wonderful antenna they can be. I haven't had much luck with
>them.
I'd put J-poles, along with Windoms and "cross-field" antennas, as
being in the "love/hate relationship and religious wars" category.
I've had decent luck with some J-poles, poor with others. Right now
I'm playing around with a combination of Cebik's description of
open-sleeve J-poles, NEC2, and a genetic-optimization package I
whipped up in Perl, to see just what sort of multiband J-pole-like
antennas I can brute-force into existence.
>The simple coaxial antennas have a common problem. There needs to be
>a gap between the outer sleeve, and the coax cable braid. If you look
>at commercial coaxial antennas, the sleeve ground diameter is huge
>compared to the center mounting pipe. Just peeling back the braid and
>burying it under some shrink tubing is kinda marginal.
Yeah... it would be better to do them as a real center-fed dipole
using metal tubing and a center insulator, and use fat-enough tubing
that it can be kept well away from the coax.
>The problem with mounting vertically polarized Yagi antennas on a pole
>is that the coax cable gets in the way of the pattern. If you use a
>metal pipe for mounting, that too gets in the way.
Best method I know there is to run the coax out the back end (through
the center of the reflector), and have the Yagi side-mounted far
enough away from the mast that coupling beyond the reflector isn't too
much of an issue. Not the best thing for light field deployment.
>Of course. I wouldn't have taken pot shots at the other ideas without
>having a favorite solution available. It's called an AMOS or Franklin
>antenna.
Quite interesting! It reminds me a bit of the center-fed plumber's-
delight Extended Double Zepp configuration, which also uses a coaxial
balun. I built one such, for 440, which we have side-mounted on our
tower at El Camino Hospital and use as our system-linking antenna when
we tie into another 440 repeater in the area. Seems to work out very
nicely.
The EDZ is an omni (excepting pattern disruption from the tower or
mast it's mounted on). I'm not sure whether it, or an AMOS, would be
more useful in the sort of deployment I'm thinking about. Stations at
the outside edge of the event might benefit by the directionality of
the AMOS; the station in the center might want an omni.
>You can also get very creative with the construction and still end up
>with a decent antenna. I've made them on 2.4Ghz out of a KD pine 2x4,
>some #12 hose wire, and assembled with a staple gun. For shielding, a
>strip of aluminum duct tape trimmed to the proper diameter. I'm also
>working on one that's made out of copper stained glass tape glued to
>the outside of an inflatable vinyl tube. Use your imagination.
Neat! I like being able to build good, useful antennas from
indigenous materials (that's why I like the "cheap Yagi" design).
>Be prepared to have some method of measuring VSWR versus frequency on
>900 Mhz. Leave your Bird Wattmeter at home and look into a return
>loss bridge, RF sweep generator, DC amp, and a scope:
What I have to work with at the moment is an 8640B (unfortunately
without the doubler), plenty of scopes, and a Systron-Donner spectrum
analyzer which goes up well above 2 gig. I've been thinking that by
adding a decent directional coupler, I could kluge up a simple scalar
network analyzer setup:
- Set the spectrum analyzer to sweep over the approximate frequency
range in question. Manually open up the selectivity filter to as
broad as possible. Probably set for "linear" vertical axis.
- Feed the analyzer's horizontal sweep output to the modulation input
of the 8640B.
- Center the 8640B where I want it, set it for FM, and adjust the
modulation width to something reasonable.
- 8640B output to the directional coupler drive port, directional
coupler reverse-sample port to the spectrum analyzer input, hook up
the DUT to the test port, and dummy-load the forward-sample port.
Not as good as a real SNA or VNA, or even a spectrum analyzer with
a tracking generator, but I *think* it would show me something useful.
I'll still need a doubler (with HPF) to get up to 900 MHz... throw
together some RF Shottky diodes for the former, I suppose, and maybe
carve a microstrip-with-stubs on some double-sided PCB stock for the
filter.
On the other hand, a friend of mine does a scalar network analyzer
good for up to 1 GHz, so I'll probably just go over to his place to
tune things up. :-)
>Basically, what an RLB give you is a display of the VSWR versus
>frequency without any indication of whether the mismatch is inductive
>or capacitive. It's not a VNA (vector network analyzer) but for this
>project, you don't need one.
Right... it's easy enough to infer the signs of the reactances
experimentally.
>If you want, I can grind out the numbers for most any configuration
>you want for 900 MHz.
I'd definitely appreciate it if you could crank out an AMOS or two of
varying lengths, for 902, and see what they look like.
I'd love to have a few, if you have 'em to spare! If you can let me
know what the postage cost is (to 94043) I'll reimburse you via
PayPal, or mail you a check.
> To use for portable
>operation, put some kind of ground plane under it. The downside is
>that you'll end up with some uptilt, which is great for talking to
>airplanes, but not very good for talking to the horizon.
They would at least get me started, until I can make or acquire
something better.
I've got one Larsen mag-mount base with an NMO, and I think I still
have the old through-hole NMO I used to use on my van and could mount
it in a sheet of something.
>Low gain fiberglass antennas are usually marked 902-928 MHz. However,
>once the gain goes above about 6dBi, they end up cut for specific
>frequencies. Since they're sealed, they can't be retuned. Yagi's are
>ok, because they can usually be retuned.
>
>You can also find 900 Mhz patch and panel antennas. These do not
>handle high power very well, but if you have the 15 watt flavor of
>TK-981, it should be ok.
For all of these, I'll look around.
I've got a few sheets of FR-4 and (certainly better) some Rogers
low-loss PCB stock, and could probably etch or cut-and-trim to make a
patch antenna of this size... once I figure out what the matching
section would need to be.
>Good luck.
Thanks! More fun stuff to play with, in my (not-so-)copious spare
time!