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MFJ Analyzer

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Jul 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/27/00

I've used the MFJ Analyzer with verticals, ground planes, and dipoles and
I've never found anomolous readings on any band or antenna. I've used it
with 10/15/20m ground planes fed by a single coax, 40/80m dipoles and 20/30m
dipoles all fed by single coaxes with no problems.

Bill, W4WNT

----- Original Message -----
From: Ham-Ant Mailing List and Newsgroup <Ham...@ucsd.edu>
To: <Ham...@ucsd.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 7:30 AM
Subject: Ham-Ant Digest V2000 #202

Ham-Ant Digest Wed, 26 Jul 2000 Volume 2000 : Issue 202

Today's Topics:
"Rabbit Ears" At It Again
'Frequency' (again) (2 msgs)
2 reflector revisited
ANtenna Designs needed
AT-500 & ft1000mp
Be True to the Fool-ish Frac!
Can anyone recommend a good mobile HF antenna? (8 msgs)
cancel <397DC4BC...@cadvision.com>
Curtain Antennas? (3 msgs)
Cushcraft Warc vertical ?
End Fed Flat Top Dipole
EZNEC wires print out...
FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE AIR! (8 msgs)
FRACTAL FLYER K2 DELAY--GONE DX'ING! (4 msgs)
Fractenna the Troll Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE AIR!
Fractional Intelligence...
Ham radio guys are too much--no way! (6 msgs)
Help, Any SETI doit yourself web sites out there.. (4 msgs)
Hex Beam Article????? (2 msgs)
Homebrewed Quads? How Difficult? How Expensive? (3 msgs)
How to build an ISOTRON antenna ?
I want to buy an antenna , under US$100, BELOW 30Mhz, any suggestion
JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! ! (14 msgs)
Magnetic Radiator question (2 msgs)
MFJ Analyser and Cushcraft vertical (8 msgs)
Pending Lawsuit Against EQUALIZER
Tall Tale of the FRACTAL K2 FRYER!
Two reflector revisited
US Tower MA550MDP recabling
very short 15/40 meter antenna
Visit at www.ab7sl.com (4 msgs)
W8JI destroying this NEWZGROUP!!!! (11 msgs)
WTB: AT50 Kenwood AutoTuner
YES WAY...!! I love this stuff!!!-no way! (8 msgs)

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <Ham...@UCSD.Edu>
Send subscription requests to: <Ham-Ant...@UCSD.Edu>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to br...@ucsd.edu.

Archives of past issues of the Ham-Ant Digest are available
(by FTP only) from ftp.UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/ham-ant".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there.
Loop-Detect: Ham-Ant:2000/202
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:38:17 -0400
From: Jerry Oxendine <jox...@bellsouth.net>
Subject: "Rabbit Ears" At It Again

Here's a little news:

QST de W1AW
ARRL Bulletin 31 ARLB031
From ARRL Headquarters
Newington CT July 25, 2000
To all radio amateurs

SB QST ARL ARLB031
ARLB031 Florida man arrested for interference to
hams, unlicensed
operation

Federal authorities have arrested a Florida man and
charged him with interfering with Amateur Radio
operations and transmitting without a license. William
Flippo of Jupiter was taken into custody July 20.

Flippo already faces a $20,000 fine levied last summer
for unlicensed operation, willful and malicious
interference to Amateur Radio communications, and
failure to let the FCC inspect his radio equipment. The
matter was referred to the US Attorney in January after
Flippo failed to pay the fine, and the interference
complaints continued.

Armed with a search warrant, federal marshals and FCC
and FBI agents, accompanied by local authorities, took
Flippo into custody. FCC agents seized items related
to the alleged offenses, including radio equipment.

Flippo was released on a $100,000 bond. An arraignment
on the federal charges is scheduled for July 31. One
condition of his release is that he not make any radio
transmissions.

Flippo was charged with four counts of transmitting
without a license--each count carrying a maximum
penalty of one year in prison and a $10,000 fine--and
four counts of interfering with the operations of
licensed stations, which carry the same penalty.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:15:39 -0400
From: Bill Manley <bma...@gate.net>
Subject: 'Frequency' (again)

The childish in-fighting that prevails on this newsgroup is not unlike the
conduct
that destroyed the Citizens Band 20 years ago. It is also like the same
nonsense
that corrupted the 20M and 75M ham bands until Hollingsworth appeared.

Perhaps this newsgroup needs OOs, or Hollingsworth?

Bill Manley KB4XE

Fractenna wrote:

>
>
> In-fighting, such as on this NG, is very counter to that notion
unfortunately.
>
> 73,
> Chip N1IR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:25:01 +1000
From: "Richard Murnane" <rich...@zeta.org.au>
Subject: 'Frequency' (again)

Bill Manley <bma...@gate.net> wrote in message
news:397D92FB...@gate.net...
> The childish in-fighting that prevails on this newsgroup is not unlike the
conduct
> that destroyed the Citizens Band 20 years ago. It is also like the same
nonsense
> that corrupted the 20M and 75M ham bands until Hollingsworth appeared.
>
> Perhaps this newsgroup needs OOs, or Hollingsworth?

I always find it strange when someone posts a message to the effect that "I
won't become a ham because of all the infighting I see on this newsgroup".
Infighting seems to be a good reason to avoid the newsgroup rather than the
hobby itself...

As for "Hollingsworth", it might be worth moderating the newsgroup, if
someone had the time to do it. Alas, when there's no bar to access, and no
incentive to maintain a certain standard of behaviour, all kind of no-hopers
tend to drift in.

73 Richard VK2SKY

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:27:37 -0500
From: Arthur Unwin <aun...@fgi.net>
Subject: 2 reflector revisited

Thought I would share the following findings with the group
relavent to the addition of a rear element in an array
.
In digging deeper into the side lobe or sibling lobe
aspects in printed articles it would apear that the
side lobes are a consequence of high gain with
long boom antennas which sets it apart from
the short boom arrays.
The side lobes comes along with the high
directivity but is basically a waste in terms
of energy utilisation( my assesment)
. The side lobes can
be erradicated at the expense of directivity
and is attained by varying or lowering the
amplitude provided by each element at the
ends of the array.In my previous posting
I reported the observation of the disapearance
of the side lobes and an undistorted frontal lobe.
This happened at the same time that I lowered,
the amplitude of the first director by adding a second
reflector and which also showed reduced radiation to the rear..
So it appears that solid work has been done in this particular
area, ala side lobes and frontal pattern changes by
reducing selected element amplitudes at the ends of the array
for gain changes that would suggest some validity to adding
elements or changing current amplitudes to the rear
of the driver for minimising rear radiation.
I am sure that most of the resident gurus know
of this special niche area of research but for me
it was gratifying to see so many similarities to my original
thoughts stated in the original posting.
However, I have yet to determine
the root cause for the emergence of these side lobes
but I am still digging in the event that the answer is not
forth coming from the group.
My very best regards
Art Unwin KB9MZ

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:08:37 GMT
From: rwc...@seanet.com (Richard Clark)
Subject: ANtenna Designs needed

On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 22:24:48 -0500, "Roy Nunez" <meph...@texas.net>
wrote:

>Looking for any field expedient antenna designs for HF and VHF Radios.
>Looking in particular for those with autotuning capability. Saw one used
>by Force Recon In California that was triangle shaped and made of several
>hundred feet of coax cable wound together with two twenty something foot
>legs and one thirty something foot leg. This antenna was able to tune to
>any freq VHF/HF and send anywhere. Any info would be much appreciated.
>
> Mephisto
>
Hi Mephisto, OM,

On the one hand you ask for expedient antenna designs and on the other
hand you describe what sounds like a Rube Goldberg antenna - which
leads me to ask:
How about trying a fractal? If you can put up with what you describe
above, you sure could find some appeal to the wideband fractal designs
at my pages:
http://www.qsl.net/~kb7qhc

If the most talked about design currently in this group can muster up
so much response for barely eeking out the gain of an isotropic
source, then certainly some of these at my pages should start fights.
But then tastes vary (and so may your mileage).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:05:09 +1000
From: "Dennis Edey" <vk...@dingoblue.net.au>
Subject: AT-500 & ft1000mp

Hi is it possible for the ft1000mp to be married up to the AT500 tuner with
the correct h/brew cable?/
does the band data port give the right type of info to work with the Icom
AT-50 tuner
anybody had a go at this ??
rgds Dennis.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 19:20:19 -0400
From: "Anon" <anon...@cotse.com>
Subject: Be True to the Fool-ish Frac!

Push'em back push'em back WAAAYYY back! Don't let up now!
Keep up the PRESSUR! I'll tell ya what it means. Fracky all
your life is sesame street channel thirteen that's what it
means!That Frac is Wac!

Don't ask for help yer on yer owne.

But we gottem now fellahs! Just a lil' more and he'll go
crasy or do something to pop him off the nus grup. Howz
yer blood pressur Fracky?! Either way it's time to say
goodbye!

Good riddence!Heroes of Tom and JLE!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 12:14:53 GMT
From: "Rob Kirkby" <rki...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Can anyone recommend a good mobile HF antenna?

Hello everyone,

I'm looking at installing a HF rig in my truck, either an Icom 706MII or a
TS50, and was wondering if anyone can recommend a decent HF antenna. My
truck is a 94 Dodge Dakota with a cap on the back. I suppose that only
leaves the rear bumber as the mounting points but I'm open to suggestions.

73
Rob VE3UWT

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 2000 14:20:30 GMT
From: tylleule...@aol.com (TyllEulenspiegel)
Subject: Can anyone recommend a good mobile HF antenna?

There was another fellow here with a Screwdriver getting as many good
reports
as some other fellow with his new whiz bang antenna. Look around.

>Hello everyone,
>
>I'm looking at installing a HF rig in my truck, either an Icom 706MII or a
>TS50, and was wondering if anyone can recommend a decent HF antenna. My
>truck is a 94 Dodge Dakota with a cap on the back. I suppose that only
>leaves the rear bumber as the mounting points but I'm open to suggestions.
>
>73
>Rob VE3UWT
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

ttention to him and keep on bringing in things that have
>nothing to do with antennas. The worst is that at least one of you take his
>comments and then use a propaganda tactic diverting and manipulating and
>responding with all kinds of foul put downs which would make Archie Bunker
>blush.
>
>Tom W8JI who ever you are just want to let you know that I get a real bad
>impression about ham radio when reading your stuff. You want to be Mr.
>'I know everything' but you come off like some kind of scientology zealot.
>You
>just dazzle people with B.S. Sounds like CB radio in the 1970's but at
least
>that stuff goes away. The fibs against Chip are just too much for an
>outsider
>to take. From what I can tell it sure encorages others to try to be as
foul.
>
>Back twenty years ago I wanted to try out ham radio but didn't have the
time.
>Now I have the time but I see some hams have a bit TOO MUCH time. If some
of
>you guys also have access to radios then heaven help us! Going to check out
>R/C
>planes. At least they don't talk back so destructively!
>
>Signed,
>A former potential ham radio person
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:25:27 -0500
From: "'Doc" <w5...@oio.net>
Subject: Can anyone recommend a good mobile HF antenna?

Rob,
Depends on how or where you plan to operate. If you think you
will move frequency a fair amount (bands), you might look at one
of the scredriver antennas. If you going to stay pretty close to
the same place on one or two bands, or if you plan to operate 80m
and 40m only, I'd look closesly at a 'Bug Catcher' type antenna.
'Doc

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:37:04 -0400
From: Jerry Oxendine <jox...@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Can anyone recommend a good mobile HF antenna?

'Doc wrote:
> Rob,

Doc is right. The Texas Bugcatcher by Henry Allen is just about the
most efficient antenna for mobile use. If you operate basically around
one or two groups of frequencies, it cannot be beat. I know Henry
personally because he buys parts from a very good friend of mine.

If you want to move over the entire HF bands plus 6 meters, the screw-
drivers cannot be beat. They can be obtained in several diameters--
I have seen them with 4" loading coils which, to my mind, is overkill.

In a loaded whip such as a Bugcatcher, I believe you should stick with
a model that is no more than 4" dia. The reason is that the higher the
"Q" factor in a mobile antenna, the more it is also negatively affected
by its surroundings. Since that is always changing, you may get less
than optimum performance as you move from one environment to another.

Whatever you decide, GOOD LUCK!

Jerry

> Rob,
> Depends on how or where you plan to operate. If you think you
> will move frequency a fair amount (bands), you might look at one
> of the scredriver antennas. If you going to stay pretty close to
> the same place on one or two bands, or if you plan to operate 80m
> and 40m only, I'd look closesly at a 'Bug Catcher' type antenna.
> 'Doc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 03:56:59 GMT
From: "ab2etXXXmy-deja.com" <ab...@my-deja.com>
Subject: Can anyone recommend a good mobile HF antenna?

In article <1xff5.24485$Gh.3...@news20.bellglobal.com>,
"Rob Kirkby" <rki...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm looking at installing a HF rig in my truck, either an Icom 706MII
or a
> TS50, and was wondering if anyone can recommend a decent HF antenna.
My
> truck is a 94 Dodge Dakota with a cap on the back. I suppose that only
> leaves the rear bumber as the mounting points but I'm open to
suggestions.
>
> 73
> Rob VE3UWT
>
>
Rob,
I have had very good successes using a High Sierra Screwdriver antenna
attached to the 2x2 hitch mount of my Ford Explorer.
Just the past weekend I went camping at a seashore park and with the
help of the propagation gods had excellent success in working some
fantastic DX running fairly low power, I normally run the full 100 when
the engine is on.
The major advantage of the Screwdriver is the ability to easily change
frequency even while in motion, I use an IC-707 MKII-G .
A excellent alternative for the higher band are the ham stick type of
single band antennas, I use them when I do not want to stick out. The
Screwdriver with the whip is about 12 feet.

--
73's Steve
oo
(__)
AB2ET
"I bet Two Extra "Terrestrials"
Aperture Engine is that a
singularity detector?

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:21:09 -0700
From: Bart Rowlett <ba...@wb6hqk.ampr.org>
Subject: Can anyone recommend a good mobile HF antenna?

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------07DD012A71BEB15908522799
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Rob Kirkby wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm looking at installing a HF rig in my truck, either an Icom 706MII or a
> TS50, and was wondering if anyone can recommend a decent HF antenna. My
> truck is a 94 Dodge Dakota with a cap on the back. I suppose that only
> leaves the rear bumber as the mounting points but I'm open to suggestions.
>
Attached is the report from the 75m mobile antenna trials in Santa
Barbara a
couple of years ago.

bart
wb6hqk
--------------07DD012A71BEB15908522799
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii;
name="shootout1.txt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline;
filename="shootout1.txt"

SANTA BARBARA ANTENNA TRIALS - AUGUST 17, 1997

Here are the results from the 75 meter mobile antenna trials
held near Santa Barbara on August 17 1997. The callsigns and names
are self explainatory. The numbers, typically between 59.0 and 65.0 are
the measured field strength readings in dB. The field strength meter
measured
the horizontal magnetic field component of the radiated signal at a distance
of approximatly 800 meters and accuratly represents the vertically polarized
(electric field) groundwave, which is proportional to the low angle skywave
radiation suitable for working DX. The measurements do not necessarily
reflect the performance of the antenna system for working short skip (NVIS)
but are generally a useful indicator of overall performance. In most
cases, the measurements were done at 3995 kHz but we allowed the frequency
to be lowered if required to achieve adequate power transfer. The power
input to the antenna system was taken as the difference between forward
and reflected power as measured with a Bird wattmeter anywhere the
operator could provide feedline access, usually at the rig antenna
connector.
The forward power was typically between 40 and 50 watts and all readings
have
been normalized. The absolute value of the field strength measurements have
no meaning whatsoever but the differences accuratly reflect antenna system
differences. Note, for 75 meter mobile installations, the vehicle is a
major
part of the antenna system and the data reflects entire antenna system
performance. In some cases, extensive bonding of body and frame members has
been done to reduce losses and improve counterpoise effectiveness. Unless
stated, all vehicles were legal to drive with in the state of California
with
the antenna systems deployed and presumably operable. When the field
strength
trial began at around 0800, there was a slight drizzle which tended to
detune (down frequency) the open air bugcatcher coils by around 20 kHz. The
earlier measurements made with the bugcatchers tended to be a couple of
tenths of a dB below the later measurements and I believe that to be as a
result of water on the coil and not a shift in antenna range calibration.
In
the past we have found the same equipment to be repeatable to within +- 0.15
dB
or better. The comparisons can be expected to be accurate to +- 0.2 dB.

RESULTS

CAPACITY HATS: These antennas had capacity hats of some sort for top
loading.

K7POF - BOB 64.8 (lST RUN) 65.1 (2ND RUN LATER IN THE DAY)
W6MMA - VERN 64.9
W6RCA - CECIL 64.9
N6BT - TOM 63.8 (lST RUN) 64.8 (2ND RUN) 66.0 REAR ASPECT
K6SDQ - JIM 63.2
KE6DM - BOB 63.0
K6MB - JAY 59.2

BUGCATCHER TYPE: Whip only, no top hat.

K7POF - BOB 63.2
WA6JPR - WALLY 62.3
WB6HQK - BART 61.7
K6MB - JAY 60.4
W6RCA - CECIL 58.3
W6JEO - CARL 57.7
W5GYJ - JIM 57.2
KC6MAJ - PETER 52.7
WB6ZJA - JIM 51.9

SCREWDRIVER TYPE: Various manufacturers

KE6ELQ - FRANK 64.3 DOES NOT MEET VEHICLE CODE - 20' TIP TO GROUND.
W6MMA - VERN 63.2
K6RCL - DENNIS 62.6
WA6HEY - JAKE 62.1
K7EZ - ROGER 61.9
KA6TAY - GREG 61.8

OTHER:
W6YY -SANFORD 66.7 DOES NOT MEET VEHICLE CODE - 30ft ANT, TOP OF
MOTORHOME
WA6JPR - WALLY 61.1 BANDHOPPER
WA6JPR - WALLY 59.5 BANDSPANNER
WA6JPR - WALLY 58.3 STAINLESS STEEL FORTEX COIL
KK5YY - GERALD 56.4 ROOFTOP MOUNTED OUTBACKER WITH TRIPLE MAGNET MOUNT
W6RCA - CECIL 52.2 11.5' WHIP (NO COIL)

ADDITIONAL DETAILS:

CAPACITY HATS:

K7POF - CENTER-LOADED, LARGE CAPACITY HAT, WIRES TO FRONT.
W6MMA - BBS SCREWDRIVER, 5' HAT WITH 18 RADIALS, R. FRONT BUMPER.
W6RCA - HOMEBREW MID-BACK BUMPER, OVER THE VEHICLE,TOWARD FRONT. 4:1 UNUN
N6BT - FORCE TWELVE PLUMBER'S DELIGHT ALL AROUND VEHICLE.
K6SDQ - CENTER-LOADED WITH 42" HAT @ 11 ABOVE COIL. LEFT REAR.
KE6DM - CENTER-LOADED MID-BACK BUMPER 17" HAT.
K6MB - LEFT, REAR MOUNT, CENTER-LOADED WITH TWO WIRES TOWARD FRONT.

BUGCATCHER:

K7POF - MASTER MOBILE, LEFT REAR, 7011 BASE, 64" WHIP.
WA6JPR - BUGCATCHER, MID-BACK BUMPER MOUNT. (NO PAPERWORK)
WB6HQK - 5.25 INCH DIA COIL ON 2.5 FOOT MAST MOUNTED ON TONNEAU COVER, 72
WHIP
K6MB - BUGCATCHER, LEFT REAR.
W6RCA - TRAILER HITCH MOUNT, 3' BASE, 6X6" COIL, 5' TOP.
W6JEO - BASE-LOADED, 2x12" COIL, 62.511 TOP, 3.5' GND TO BASE.
W5GYJ - BASE-LOADED, 8x12" COIL, 7' TOP, 3' GND TO BASE. (GLA COIL)
KC6MAJ - CENTER-LOADED, ON TRUNK, 3X5" COIL. (HUSTLER COIL)
WB6ZJA - TEXAS B.C. LEFT ABAFT CAB MOUNT, 16"-HAT 12" ABOVE COIL.

SCREWDRIVER:

W6MMA - AS ABOVE SANS HAT.
K6RCL - HIGH SIERRA 1000, CNTR-LEFT MOUNT, GMC P.U.
WA6HEY - W6AAQ ANT., REAR, LEFT MOUNT @ 43" GND TO BASE.
K7EZ - W6AAG ANT., REAR MOUNT, 36" GND TO BASE.
KA6TAY - HIGH SIERRA, CNTR REAR BUMPER MOUNT 16" GND TO BASE.

OTHER:

WA6JPR - BANDHOPPER.
WA6JPR - BANDSPANNER.
WA6JPR - STAINLESS STEEL.
KK5YY - OUTBACKER,CNTR-ROOF, MAG-MOUNT.
W6RCA - 11.5' WHIP (NO COIL) TRAILER HITCH MOUNT.

Additional Notes:

KC6MAJ and WB6ZJA apparantly had grounding problems and the results are
not typical of similar installations.

These are the final results but updates may occur as additional information
becomes available. If you have any additional information or errors to
report, please let me know.

If you have any questions please feel free to email me: ba...@wb6hqk.ampr.org

If you're on the west coast, many of those involved can often be found
on 3850 kHz from 0730 to 1000 and 3995 kHz from 1700 to 1800 PDT. We would
like for you to join us!

bart wb6hqk

--------------07DD012A71BEB15908522799--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 05:35:24 GMT
From: Duane Smith <jwb...@earthlink.net>
Subject: Can anyone recommend a good mobile HF antenna?

On 25 Jul 2000 14:20:30 GMT, tylleule...@aol.com
(TyllEulenspiegel) wrote:

Rob, I used a fellow ham's High Sierra screwdriver on field day and
was really impressed. Impressed enough that I bought one also. In
their manual they show different mounting solutions. One of which was
on a metal plate mounted vertically on the drivers side between the
cab and the bed. My friend has his mounted on a one inch pipe bolted
to the bed of the truck with a pipe flange.

I received mine yesterday and really haven't decided where to put it
but it will need to be close to the cab since I pull a 5th wheel R.V.

High Sierra has a web page, you may want to take a look. Nope!
I don't work for them.

73 and gud Luck
Jim N7CLV

>There was another fellow here with a Screwdriver getting as many good
reports
>as some other fellow with his new whiz bang antenna. Look around.
>
>>Hello everyone,
>>
>>I'm looking at installing a HF rig in my truck, either an Icom 706MII or a
>>TS50, and was wondering if anyone can recommend a decent HF antenna. My
>>truck is a 94 Dodge Dakota with a cap on the back. I suppose that only
>>leaves the rear bumber as the mounting points but I'm open to suggestions.
>>
>>73
>>Rob VE3UWT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 03:49:26 -0600
From: "Patrick Friend" <fri...@uswest.net>
Subject: Can anyone recommend a good mobile HF antenna?

I use and have seen others use a piece of Al bar stock. Pretty heavy, about
1/2" thick by 4" wide, cut about 24" long and bolt it through the front edge
of the top edge of your truck bed, so just about 6" sticks out between the
cab and bed. To this you can mount all and sundry antennae. Run the coax
down between the bed and cab and come up through one of the floor knockout
holes. The ARRL Montana SM. has a nice screwdriver mounted this way on the
driver's side, and the neat part is he set it up with marks on the outside
clear tube that protects the coil, so that he can see them - using the
outside mirror - and can tune certain presets without needing to look at his
rig by lining up the top of the coil with a particular mark. I have one of
these mounts on each side with a Comet Z-780 for 2m/70cm on one side and a
10m whip on the other. Just use the Al mirror mount brackets from rad shack
bolted directly to the bar stock. Looks fine, works great, and just a few
holes to drill in the front, top edge of the truck bed (much better than
drilling the truck body.) Good luck.
73, Pat, K7ETT

"Rob Kirkby" <rki...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1xff5.24485$Gh.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm looking at installing a HF rig in my truck, either an Icom 706MII or a
> TS50, and was wondering if anyone can recommend a decent HF antenna. My
> truck is a 94 Dodge Dakota with a cap on the back. I suppose that only
> leaves the rear bumber as the mounting points but I'm open to suggestions.
>
> 73
> Rob VE3UWT
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:48:45 -0600
From: Irv Finkleman <fin...@cadvision.com>
Subject: cancel <397DC4BC...@cadvision.com>

This message was cancelled from within Mozilla.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 12:10:59 -0500
From: "SMB" <scott.m...@jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Curtain Antennas?

Can anyone shed a little light on the Curtain antenna design?
I was looking to try and find some information on this type of antenna to
try and construct one for 6 or 10 meter.

Any thoughts?

SMB

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 19:38:48 -0700
From: Scott <n4zouN...@netzero.net.invalid>
Subject: Curtain Antennas?

You are looking for a classic "Sterba curtan" antenna. Page 26
of the October 1991 QST has one for 10 meters. It is simply made
up of several phased 1/2 wave elements with the phasing lines
make up of 450 ohm twin lead feed line. It would be easy to
calculate one for 6 meters using the info in the QST article. Of
note here is that the 10 meter Sterba curtan is 66 feet long!
The 6 meter antenna would almost be half that size. Good luck!

-----------------------------------------------------------

Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:12:52 GMT
From: 2w...@contesting.com (Tom W8JI)
Subject: Curtain Antennas?

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 19:38:48 -0700, Scott
<n4zouN...@netzero.net.invalid> wrote:

>You are looking for a classic "Sterba curtan" antenna. Page 26
>of the October 1991 QST has one for 10 meters. It is simply made
>up of several phased 1/2 wave elements with the phasing lines
>make up of 450 ohm twin lead feed line. It would be easy to
>calculate one for 6 meters using the info in the QST article. Of
>note here is that the 10 meter Sterba curtan is 66 feet long!
>The 6 meter antenna would almost be half that size. Good luck!

One thing to remember about Sterba curtains (and Bruce arrays) is that
all the sections are in series. That means any errors in length add as
each section excites the next section. They are sensitive to frequency
change no matter how you build them, and are very sensitive to
moisture if you use ladder-line or twinlead in the phasing sections.

They never work near as well as predicted or modeled when in the "real

world", and they were frequency sensitive. That's why they fell out of
favor in commercial stations.

"USIA Curtains" solve this problem by bringing all the feedlines to
common points. The antenna is much more forgiving for construction
errors or a less-than-clear location. The system is less affected by
wet weather. These are the curtains used by SWBC stations like VOA and
other large SWBC stations. They have more gain than Rhombics even
though they occupy much less physical space.

Additionally, a simple distributed-feed curtain (like the USIA
Curtain) will work perfectly fine with nearly 3:1 frequency ranges. A
single curtain can easily be used on ten and six meters.

The price you would pay is extra ladder-line blowing in the wind, but
the payback is a multiband antenna that will work more like you
plannned or expect.

73 Tom

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:41:51 -0700
From: "Spencer F. Ritchie" <spencer...@uswest.net>
Subject: Cushcraft Warc vertical ?

Hi Bob,
I've got several answers on it. The model was AWV-3.
73
Spencer
"Bob Miller" <bami...@texas.net> wrote in message
news:WQN9OXz0eZYrIPyCD+W=fEj8...@4ax.com...
> "Spencer F. Ritchie" <spencer...@uswest.net> wrote:
>
> >Would anyone know thw model designation of the 12-17-30m vertical
Cushcraft
> >made several years ago?
> >Thanks,
> >Spencer KC2TX
> >
>
> I used to have an R-3 -- worked 20, 15 and 10. Wasn't aware of a
> warc-band only model...
>
> Bob
> k5qwg
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:55:40 GMT
From: Den <dennis...@reckitt.com>
Subject: End Fed Flat Top Dipole

In article <397cd...@news.nwlink.com>,
Mike Jordan <mjo...@thetics.europa.com> wrote:
> I'd like to put up another dipole but the only place that I can run it
...
> have aluminum siding and aluminum frame windows that it has to come
> through.
> Thanks for any information.
> Mike
> KJ4TX

Reconsider the end feed with ladder line... just build a feed thru
panel into a window... wood or plexiglass etc. 6-8 inches high and span
the window width. Feed the ladder line thru this. It is a good place
for a switch to ground the feed / ant to a ground rod when not in use.
I have had good luck with a 450 ohm ladder line end fed ~130 ft dipole
into a 4:1 then a home brew SPC tuner on all HF bands.
73
Den Spiess W2DEN -.-

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:33:31 -0700
From: Roy Lewallen <w7...@eznec.com>
Subject: EZNEC wires print out...

Jim Sutton wrote:
>
> On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 00:33:57 -0700, Roy Lewallen <w7...@eznec.com>
> wrote:
>
> Roy you are not the only one to use the "Help" file as a "Manual".
> However I find this approach useful at times but as a rule it does not
> provide the data in a way that is easy to read - such as while taking
> my constitutinal in the morning.
>
> I don't see the problem in establishing a way to down load the help
> files with a single instruction to the program that will pull it all
> together as a single down load. Since I can copy each
> individual page from the screen - would't it be easy to tie it all
> together so it all could be down loaded at one time?
>
> The program by the way is excellent.
>
> 73/Jim/AC4CZ

Rather than take up newsgroup space talking about the product, I'll just
mention that more information about a printable manual (which doesn't
yet exist) can be found at http://eznec.com/ez3faq.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 02:05:56 -0500
From: Mark Keith <nm...@wt.net>
Subject: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE AIR!

Broadcast Services wrote:
>
> What's up with this guy? I just tried to sign up for his discussion
group
> and got a FAST reply:
>
> The moderator of the fractalantenna group has denied
> your request for membership.
>
> First, he SPAMS the group with his patently commercial advertisements
and
> then, when someone attempts to join his group he refuses to allow them
> admittance?
>
> Thomas H. Brown

Hummmmm. Wonder what they would be afraid of. You must be tough guy and
obviously know something to strike such fear in their hearts. Another
example of why I'll NEVER EVER join a cliche "private/moderated" group.
Too much brown nosing, and no one learns a thing. MK
--
http://web.wt.net/~nm5k

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 01:52:40 -0500
From: Mark Keith <nm...@wt.net>
Subject: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE AIR!

Fractenna wrote:
>
> >Early this afternoon I had a fast look at your web pages that describes
> >the concept of this design (always looking for a better mousetrap) and
> >I find your results a bit strange for this design and its size as
> >described in your posting and page.
>
> What's even stranger is that it's not ON the web page. Nothing even CLOSE
to it
> is on the web page. And, as I said, it won't be until next week.
>
> Not a very good lie.
>
> I also want to publicly state that I will no longer tolerate any
harassment
> from you and, if you initiate such attacks again, I will sue you for
libel.

And lose. What a waste of money normally. Of course, I guess your lawyer
likes to work for free though, as any competent attorney would see that
any such effort would be futile he were to actually read any of these
posts. If you really have a lawyer, he must be brain dead if he tells
you that you could win such a case. In reading a few posts tonight , you
have come closer to libel than anyone else I've seen so far. #1, the
wine thread. #2 the gotham thread. MK
--
http://web.wt.net/~nm5k

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 2000 21:51:23 GMT
From: frac...@aol.com (Fractenna)
Subject: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE AIR!

>> I also want to publicly state that I will no longer tolerate any
harassment
>> from you and, if you initiate such attacks again, I will sue you for
libel.
>
>And lose. What a waste of money normally. Of course, I guess your lawyer
>likes to work for free though, as any competent attorney would see that
>any such effort would be futile he were to actually read any of these
>posts. If you really have a lawyer, he must be brain dead if he tells
>you that you could win such a case. In reading a few posts tonight , you
>have come closer to libel than anyone else I've seen so far. #1, the
>wine thread. #2 the gotham thread. MK
>--
>http://web.wt.net/~nm5k
>

You've said this before Mark. What is your point? I am pursuing this.
Whether I
win or lose should not be material to you, nor are your opinions material to
the case at hand. You may express them, as you have, but to what end? To
encourage others to mestatisize the NG further?

Get back to antennas please. There's been enough utter craziness in the last
two days to fill a lifetime. You don't know--or see-the half of it.

73,
Chip N1IR

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 2000 21:46:42 GMT
From: frac...@aol.com (Fractenna)
Subject: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE AIR!

>
>Broadcast Services wrote:
>>
>> What's up with this guy? I just tried to sign up for his discussion
group
>> and got a FAST reply:
>>
>> The moderator of the fractalantenna group has denied
>> your request for membership.
>>
>> First, he SPAMS the group with his patently commercial advertisements
and
>> then, when someone attempts to join his group he refuses to allow them
>> admittance?
>>
>> Thomas H. Brown
>
>Hummmmm. Wonder what they would be afraid of. You must be tough guy and
>obviously know something to strike such fear in their hearts. Another
>example of why I'll NEVER EVER join a cliche "private/moderated" group.
>Too much brown nosing, and no one learns a thing. MK
>--
>http://web.wt.net/~nm5k
>
>
Mark--

Proudhawk made the mistake of using a bogus name rather than his own--and
forgot that he wasn't signing on the NG with hotmail.

If he signs on without a bogus hotmail address--without intent of mischief
(just follow his reponse about hey! that email goes back to me! how did you
get
my screenname!) that will be fine.

I sent a friendly query to the hotmail address and it bounced. That's why I
denied the subscription.

The integrity of the list is important and remains so.

Best,
Chip N1IR

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 17:46:05 -0500
From: Mark Keith <nm...@wt.net>
Subject: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE AIR!

> You've said this before Mark. What is your point? I am pursuing this.
Whether I
> win or lose should not be material to you, nor are your opinions material
to
> the case at hand. You may express them, as you have, but to what end? To
> encourage others to mestatisize the NG further?
>
> Get back to antennas please. There's been enough utter craziness in the
last
> two days to fill a lifetime. You don't know--or see-the half of it.
>
> 73,
> Chip N1IR

Because, every day or two I see you threatening to sue someone. It's
silly. And I'll say it again, if your laywer thinks he can win such a
case, he needs help. Or needs to go back to law school. But on the other
hand, I doubt you have really retained such a person to pursue this. I
can't see any that would accept such a case unless he was really out in
space. And I'll get back to whatever I dang well please, thank you. I
have to read this crap every day. If I feel like commenting on it,
whatever you think doesn't mean diddly to me. And I could care less
about the other half of it. That sounds like a personal problem to me.
MK
--
http://web.wt.net/~nm5k

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 2000 23:04:36 GMT
From: frac...@aol.com (Fractenna)
Subject: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE AIR!

>Because, every day or two I see you threatening to sue someone. It's
>silly. And I'll say it again, if your laywer thinks he can win such a
>case, he needs help. Or needs to go back to law school. But on the other
>hand, I doubt you have really retained such a person to pursue this. I
>can't see any that would accept such a case unless he was really out in
>space. And I'll get back to whatever I dang well please, thank you. I
>have to read this crap every day. If I feel like commenting on it,
>whatever you think doesn't mean diddly to me. And I could care less
>about the other half of it. That sounds like a personal problem to me.
>MK
>--
>http://web.wt.net/~nm5k
>
Again, I don't see any point . If you see "every day" that I am threatening
to
sue someone, you need to ask YOUR attorney what the words "If this continues
legal action may be pursued".

I do, indeed, have one case which has made good progress. However, as I
mentioned, a P.I. will aid in identifying the history of the offendor,
which,
as it turns out is more 'colorful' than he lets us see.

These things take time when run from a different state.

But I will demand satisfaction, as it is clear that this abuse and
harassment
is non-stop, unprovoked, and seeks to libel me on a public and global scale.

I deeply appreciate your concern on my chances, but I fear that all it
accomplishes is giving those on the borderline an open invitation to destroy
this wonderful USENET newsgroup.

And I think that is tragic.

Bst Wishes,

Chip N1IR

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:30:51 -0400
From: "Peter O. Brackett" <ab...@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE AIR!

Chip:

Be direct, it is you who are trying to destroy this NG with your
unsubstatiated claims and obfuscation.

If you think that a Ph.D. from an Ivy League school is your ticket to
selling antennas to poor unsuspecting hams, then you certainly have
underestimated your consumers.

There are folks on this NG who simply won't be intimidated by your claims
and who will challenge them.

If your antennas can "prove in" then so be it. But you will never get a
"free ride" with your antenna products and claims on this NG.

You must face real world tests, critiques, and questions.

Too bad.... as they say, "in theory, theory and practice are the same, but
in practice they are different!"

You may attempt to intimidate and bully this NG with your rhetoric and your
questionable academic credentials but you will still have to fact the test
of the marketplace.

Good luck, your bafflegab has not won you any kudos on this NG.

Try selling some of your antennas... then come back and tell us about your
sales figures on fractal antennas.

Welcome to the real world, Mr. Astro-physicist!

Peter K1PO

--
Peter O. Brackett
Morrisville, NC
--
Fractenna <frac...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000725190436...@ng-mf1.aol.com...
> >Because, every day or two I see you threatening to sue someone. It's
> >silly. And I'll say it again, if your laywer thinks he can win such a
> >case, he needs help. Or needs to go back to law school. But on the other
> >hand, I doubt you have really retained such a person to pursue this. I
> >can't see any that would accept such a case unless he was really out in
> >space. And I'll get back to whatever I dang well please, thank you. I
> >have to read this crap every day. If I feel like commenting on it,
> >whatever you think doesn't mean diddly to me. And I could care less
> >about the other half of it. That sounds like a personal problem to me.
> >MK
> >--
> >http://web.wt.net/~nm5k
> >
> Again, I don't see any point . If you see "every day" that I am
threatening to
> sue someone, you need to ask YOUR attorney what the words "If this
continues
> legal action may be pursued".
>
> I do, indeed, have one case which has made good progress. However, as I
> mentioned, a P.I. will aid in identifying the history of the offendor,
which,
> as it turns out is more 'colorful' than he lets us see.
>
> These things take time when run from a different state.
>
> But I will demand satisfaction, as it is clear that this abuse and
harassment
> is non-stop, unprovoked, and seeks to libel me on a public and global
scale.
>
> I deeply appreciate your concern on my chances, but I fear that all it
> accomplishes is giving those on the borderline an open invitation to
destroy
> this wonderful USENET newsgroup.
>
> And I think that is tragic.
>
> Bst Wishes,
>
> Chip N1IR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 00:41:20 -0400
From: PL259 <k...@westcom.net>
Subject: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE AIR!

"Peter O. Brackett" wrote:

> Chip:
>
> Be direct, it is you who are trying to destroy this NG with your
> unsubstatiated claims and obfuscation.
>
> If you think that a Ph.D. from an Ivy League school is your ticket to
> selling antennas to poor unsuspecting hams, then you certainly have
> underestimated your consumers.
>
> There are folks on this NG who simply won't be intimidated by your claims
> and who will challenge them.
>
> If your antennas can "prove in" then so be it. But you will never get a
> "free ride" with your antenna products and claims on this NG.
>
> You must face real world tests, critiques, and questions.
>
> Too bad.... as they say, "in theory, theory and practice are the same,
but
> in practice they are different!"
>
> You may attempt to intimidate and bully this NG with your rhetoric and
your
> questionable academic credentials but you will still have to fact the test
> of the marketplace.
>
> Good luck, your bafflegab has not won you any kudos on this NG.
>
> Try selling some of your antennas... then come back and tell us about
your
> sales figures on fractal antennas.
>
> Welcome to the real world, Mr. Astro-physicist!
>
> Peter K1PO

Very well put there Peter but you used to many big words.
He won't understand a single word you said!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:40:23 GMT
From: eh...@bellatlantic.net
Subject: FRACTAL FLYER K2 DELAY--GONE DX'ING!

Fractenna wrote:

> <snip>
> But you just said it was 2.35 feet in height. That's what you said.

Nope. That is not what he said. I'll quote from his first post:

"To answer you I will convey my personal experience on 20 meters at
14:06-14:25 hours GMT 7/23/00 While parked at the Little League
softball field using my 12 foot high mobile High Sierra Screwdriver
Vertical Monopole." ...
"Not bad for an antenna ONLY 2.35 feet above the ground."

>
>
>
>
> 73,
> Chip N1IR

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 2000 23:06:20 GMT
From: frac...@aol.com (Fractenna)
Subject: FRACTAL FLYER K2 DELAY--GONE DX'ING!

>Fractenna wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>> But you just said it was 2.35 feet in height. That's what you said.
>
>Nope. That is not what he said. I'll quote from his first post:
>
>"To answer you I will convey my personal experience on 20 meters at
>14:06-14:25 hours GMT 7/23/00 While parked at the Little League
>softball field using my 12 foot high mobile High Sierra Screwdriver
>Vertical Monopole." ...
>"Not bad for an antenna ONLY 2.35 feet above the ground."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 73,
>> Chip N1IR
>
>
...and thus he has a 12 foot high antenna pointing its top 2.35 feet above
ground. Big hole!

73,
Chip N1IR

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:13:11 -0700
From: Jim Kelley <jwke...@uci.edu>
Subject: FRACTAL FLYER K2 DELAY--GONE DX'ING!

Fractenna wrote:

> >Fractenna wrote:
> >
> >> <snip>
> >> But you just said it was 2.35 feet in height. That's what you said.
> >
> >Nope. That is not what he said. I'll quote from his first post:
> >
> >"To answer you I will convey my personal experience on 20 meters at
> >14:06-14:25 hours GMT 7/23/00 While parked at the Little League
> >softball field using my 12 foot high mobile High Sierra Screwdriver
> >Vertical Monopole." ...
> >"Not bad for an antenna ONLY 2.35 feet above the ground."

> ...and thus he has a 12 foot high antenna pointing its top 2.35 feet above
> ground. Big hole!

In most of the exchanges I hear, the operator is citing the height at
which his antenna is mounted, i.e. the top of the mast, not the height
at the top of the antenna. I assume that's the height you've been
talking about as well. But I suppose it's possible that yours is ground
mounted, and is 7.5' in length (making the other guy's 2.35' feet
higher, thus giving it all that additional elevation gain.) :-)

For a 12 foot vertical antenna, mounted at 2.35 feet above the ground to
need a hole dug below it, one would either have to mount it up side
down, or mount it from the high voltage point. Both seem rather silly,
Chip. I understood what he said perfectly.

ac6xg

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:14:06 -0500
From: side...@mindspring.com
Subject: FRACTAL FLYER K2 DELAY--GONE DX'ING!

Fractenna wrote:

And yet again my "FracSybil is an idiot" theory holds its own as only a
moron
would make that assumption.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:15:22 -0800
From: FlatASS <ca...@kj.com>
Subject: Fractenna the Troll Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE AIR!

You're nothing but a 3rd rate troll chipper. You know
you couldn't afford an attorney if your life depended on
it because you make so little money peddling your
fractal shit. Your just here on this NG sounding like
a stupid shit all of the time. If I were you I'd be very
embarassed from your postings. What do your students
think? That you're childish as hell no doubt.
SUE ME you ignorant fool. Come on!

Fractenna wrote:

> >Because, every day or two I see you threatening to sue someone. It's
> >silly. And I'll say it again, if your laywer thinks he can win such a
> >case, he needs help. Or needs to go back to law school. But on the other
> >hand, I doubt you have really retained such a person to pursue this. I
> >can't see any that would accept such a case unless he was really out in
> >space. And I'll get back to whatever I dang well please, thank you. I
> >have to read this crap every day. If I feel like commenting on it,
> >whatever you think doesn't mean diddly to me. And I could care less
> >about the other half of it. That sounds like a personal problem to me.
> >MK
> >--
> >http://web.wt.net/~nm5k
> >
> Again, I don't see any point . If you see "every day" that I am
threatening to
> sue someone, you need to ask YOUR attorney what the words "If this
continues
> legal action may be pursued".
>
> I do, indeed, have one case which has made good progress. However, as I
> mentioned, a P.I. will aid in identifying the history of the offendor,
which,
> as it turns out is more 'colorful' than he lets us see.
>
> These things take time when run from a different state.
>
> But I will demand satisfaction, as it is clear that this abuse and
harassment
> is non-stop, unprovoked, and seeks to libel me on a public and global
scale.
>
> I deeply appreciate your concern on my chances, but I fear that all it
> accomplishes is giving those on the borderline an open invitation to
destroy
> this wonderful USENET newsgroup.
>
> And I think that is tragic.
>
> Bst Wishes,
>
> Chip N1IR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 02:04:13 -0500
From: "Broadcast Services" <haw...@peoplescom.net>
Subject: Fractional Intelligence...

It's in the works... Our attorneys received and forwarded this little
ditty, today (which is, basically, one of the first "formalities" involved
in the initiation of a civil action... Here's the quoted version of a
message which, although it means basically nothing, the attorneys assure me
that it's a "necessary preliminary step" toward what must be done... Anyone
else care to join in?

Hello,

Submitting information about our members almost exclusively requires our
receipt of a subpoena or parallel legal documentation. In all cases we
require that member information only be submitted directly to law
enforcement officials. To view our Privacy Policy, you can go to:

http://www.lycos.com/privacy/

We created our Privacy Policy in accordance with the guidelines put
forth by Trust-e, and organization that is "an independent, non-profit
privacy initiative dedicated to building users' trust and confidence on
the Internet and accelerating growth of the Internet industry." You can
visit their main site at:

http://www.truste.org/

Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.

Thank you.

Terry Keith Hammond
President/Chief Engineer

http://www.radiolink.net/1069

Broadcast Services
P.O. Box 155
Mount Vernon, TX. 75457

(903) 588-2532 (Voice & Fax)

The radio business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic
hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and
good men die like dogs.
There's also a negative side."
- Hunter S. Thompson

"Bill Aycock" <bay...@hiwaay.net> wrote in message
news:397DE95F...@hiwaay.net...
> The REAL cancer is the many signatured frac group that always stirs the
> pot with outrageous claims and controversy,
>
> I have been gone a week, and come back to find the chippster and his
> dog, Phil, still at it- but- it appears that he/they have stepped off
> one time too many- Chip/Phil/NC/ Nathan, have now tried to get someone
> bounced for purely legitimate use of a site, on a legitimate subject,
> and will p;probably REALLY face what they threaten others with- a real
> civil lawsuit. I hope I can help in the drumming of the Fractanal group
> into bankruptcy. Go, man.
>
> Great- This group now thinks the problem is good old Tom?? How droll!
>
> Bill-W4BSG
>
> Fractenna wrote:
> >
> > Here is just one page of MANY AND MANY--5 more in the last 2 weeks!-- of
posts
> > that Charles Thomas Rauch W8JI rags and Rags on the Chipster--and the
Chipster
> > never responds or provokes!! Not ONE N1IR post on this list!!
> >
> > W8JI is a cancer on this newzgroup!
> >
> > Phil
> > de N1ZKT
> >
> > 07/25/2000 Re: Ham radio guys are too m rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/24/2000 Re: Ham radio guys are too m rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/23/2000 Re: FREE JOVIAN/IO DAM REPRI rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/23/2000 Re: DAM REPRINT rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/23/2000 Re: Chip looses all fear of rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2 DELAY-- rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/21/2000 Re: Suggested Refs for Imped rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/21/2000 Re: Suggested Refs for Imped rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/21/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/21/2000 Re: Fractal element antennae rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/19/2000 Re: Parabolic FM antenna rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/25/2000 Re: TWO REFLECTOR REVISITED rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/24/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2 DELAY-- rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/24/2000 Re: Ham radio guys are too m rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/24/2000 Re: TWO REFLECTOR REVISITED rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/22/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/22/2000 Re: Parabolic FM antenna rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/22/2000 Re: FREE JOVIAN/IO DAM REPRI rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/22/2000 Re: DAM REPRINT rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/22/2000 Re: Phased verticals rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/21/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/21/2000 FRACTAL FLYER K2--Cooking th rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/20/2000 Re: Phased verticals rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/19/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/19/2000 Re: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/19/2000 Re: Parabolic FM antenna rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/18/2000 Re: FRACTAL ANTENNA REFLECTO rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/18/2000 Re: CellPhone RF Hazards (ne rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/18/2000 Re: FRACTAL ANTENNA REFLECTO rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/18/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/18/2000 Re: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/18/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/17/2000 Re: LPFM Application Info... rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/17/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> > 07/16/2000 Re: LPFM Application Info... rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> >

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 2000 13:16:24 GMT
From: cohe...@aol.com (Cohendog)
Subject: Ham radio guys are too much--no way!

Murray OM,

Your right Murray. I was going to join this newsgroup and get a ham license
until I read this ham radio groups constant picking on Chip.

Chip is one of the most helpful people on this newsgroup, and well respected
in
his profession. yet these few people are runing his reputation and this
newsgroup.

Thanks for your support, and ignore W8JI and the rest of his puppets. I'm
going
to rec.RC I've had it with hams.

Sincerely,
A would be ham

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 2000 14:11:00 GMT
From: k1...@aol.com (K1BQT)
Subject: Ham radio guys are too much--no way!

Oh Oh, Murray, it appears someone stuck the wrong header on Jim0945's
message
to you!

Rick K1BQT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 14:23:11 GMT
From: 2w...@contesting.com (Tom W8JI)
Subject: Ham radio guys are too much--no way!

On 25 Jul 2000 13:16:24 GMT, cohe...@aol.com (Cohendog) wrote:

>Murray OM,
>
>Your right Murray. I was going to join this newsgroup and get a ham
license
>until I read this ham radio groups constant picking on Chip.
>
>Chip is one of the most helpful people on this newsgroup, and well
respected in
>his profession. yet these few people are runing his reputation and this
>newsgroup.
>
>Thanks for your support, and ignore W8JI and the rest of his puppets. I'm
going
>to rec.RC I've had it with hams.
>
>Sincerely,
>A would be ham

Woops, you hit the wrong key! You used the screen name Cohendog
instead of jimo0945.

Dejanews shows Jim, the fellow who garnered all the sympathy for Chip,
has NEVER posted anywhere except to this newsgroup. His very first
post to usenets occured on 7/24/00 to this newsgroup, he has never
accessed any other newsgroup or discussion forums except this one and
only then with two posts on 7/24/00.

No past history, just popped up here out of thin air on AOL.

Cohendog appeared 04/06/00 and has made a total of ten posts in
"defense" of Chip, all from the same basic AOL path as Chip and Phil
use. Of course jimo0945 comes from the same basic route as Phil or
Chip.

Cohendog also has no history, he just popped up out of thin air on
this newsgroup (never having posted on any other internet forum) from
an AOL account that happens to route in the same as Phil and Chip.

Another is Jaypole, who popped up to defend Chip and tell everyone
Chip was right. No posting history other than here on this newsgroup,
no posting history since, he just appeared...created a big fight...
then "left" to never post or appear on any other forum.

Someone with an AOL account and too much free time is obviously
trolling this newsgroup to start fights and stir people up.

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 2000 14:42:04 GMT
From: k1...@aol.com (K1BQT)
Subject: Ham radio guys are too much--no way!

The archive shows no posting history for "Jim", save his brief cameo here
(same
was true for Cohendog and J-pole). Too bad you were sucked into the
slipstream. Stay out of that nasty Texas heat!

Rick K1BQT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:47:56 -0600
From: Irv Finkleman <fin...@cadvision.com>
Subject: Ham radio guys are too much--no way!

Cohendog wrote:

> <SNIP>. I'm going
> to rec.RC I've had it with hams.
>
> Sincerely,
> A would be ham

Good! Bye Bye!

--
Irv Finkleman,
Grampa/Ex-Navy/Old Fart/Ham Radio VE6BP
Calgary, Alberta, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:18:14 -0400
From: "Peter O. Brackett" <ab...@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Ham radio guys are too much--no way!

Chip:

I honestly believe that you are "half baked" in everything you say. What a
bunch of crap...

Stop trying to "snow" the poor undereducated with your "high falutin" 50
cent words and pretentious behaviour.

I will address your points here below, but only because I see you as the
next thing to a "snake oil salesman" and I feel that the uninitiated need to
understand that there are others who don't see things as you do... and that
some might like to learn something rather than submit to BS from a self
agrandizing Ph.D. loser...

[snip]
> Every radio VLBI observation requires the modeling-- and thus synthetic
> design--design of an antenna array.
[snip]

Apart from the original Canadian VBLI work, I believe that most VBLI arrays
are on 2D tracking mounts, typically azimuth and elevation. Even with
tracking, a model for phase and amplitude response would be used to correct
for the antenna effects. Derivation of such a model has nothing to do with
electromagnetics or anything that you espouse upon on this NG. Either fixed
equalization or adaptive equalization can mitigate such array distortions.
This is all simply digital signal array processing, not antenna
electromagnetics! What are you claiming?

Derivation of such equalization models has been the subject of many Sonar,
Radar and high speed modem designs for decades. Such modeling is widely
known and understood everywhere, except I see within the Physics community.
It seems convenient for the Physics community to ignore or dismiss the
engineering literature on this subject. This kind of DSP work is
commendable on your part, if indeed you have done it, but has absolutely
nothing to do with the kind of expertise that you expound upon on this NG.
In fact your prosletysing on fractals smacks of the kind of prosletyzing of
Dr. Lee De Forest on the Audion lo those many decades ago. i.e. no insight
or understanding.

What?

[snip]
>The array comprises 'Earth rotation
> synthesis aperture synthesis' to increase the spatial frequency spectrum
beyond
> that of the sparse array (pair) baselines.
[snip]

What???

Hxxx... VBLI is a complement to the classical synthetic aperture problem.
In the case of VBLI one simply undersamples a very large aperture. The
spatial frequency response and therefore resolution is staggeringly high.
But this is digital array processing, not antenna engineering or engineering
electromagnetics! What are you claiming??? Chip it's more bafflegab from
Fractenna... we are ON TO YOU!

The whole point of exploiting earth rotation is to sort out aliases and fill
out the lower spatial frequency response in a meaningful way. The entire
spectrum is always available, but the lower spatial frequencies are alliased
into oblivion! A difficult problem, if indeed you understand it, but what
the hexx does this have to do with antenna electromagnetics.

It is merely the combination and manipulation of digital signals, not analog
antenna array design!

I still ask, what the Hexx does your Ph.D. dissertation have to do with
antennas. Phoney, phoney, phoney!

Your statements are deliberately misleading for the uninitiated. Too bad
for you but there are peers on the NG who see through your BS...

[snip]
>Thus the weighted baselines and
> duration of the ERAS must be chosen and understood long before the
observation.
[snip]

OK, the experiment needs to be designed before it is executed, so what?

This does not require any particular knowledge of antennas? What??? More
obfuscation!! We are ON TO YOU Chip.

[snip]
> The Fourier Transform (actually DFT) of these spatial frequencies is the
'beam'
> or synthesized power pattern.
[snip]

By convention in the optics and antenna business the 2D Fourier Transform of
theaperture distribution is the far field pattern expressed as a spatial
frequency spectrum. The conventional "beam" pattren is the corresponding
power spectrum fo the amplitude distribution and therefore is also the
autocorrelation of the amplitude distribution.

Basic stuff in the signal processing world, especially to Sonar experts, and
seismic geophone array processors. Any oil company DSP exploration expert
does the same thing every day with data from his "shots", what's that got to
do with antennas? Don't you physicists ever read the applications
literature,?

Or are simple applications engineers and hams who "just do it" too lowly for
you Ph.D. physics graduates!!!

[snip]
> In other words, every observation requires a
> 'from scratch' simulation of the antenna array.
[snip]

Nope, Chip... I am sorry... doesn't follow from your bafflegab. Go snow
another NG.

[snip]
>
> As for repairs, I will mention two anecdotal highlights:
>
[snip]

Diversionary tactics! Let me tell you about my exploits hunting submarines
with tactical accoustic array processors in mid-Atlantic... and I don't
claim to be an electomagnetic antenna expert!

I still ask. Chip, what the hexx did your Ph.D. dissertation have to do
with antennas???

Go snow another NG...

[snip]
> I helped build the Dudley Observatory 100 ft dish back in 1973, although
this
> was not part of my personal VLBI work. Parabolizing the dish is amogst the
most
> risky physical things I have ever done and gave me a sobering repect for
those
> who do any form of construction.
[snip]

I am sure that folks like that good ol Georgia boy Tom W8JI, who "just do
it" can identify with a graduate student crawling around on a big disk under
the watchful eye of his professor and mother... what the hexx is that
paragraph supposed to mean??? Looking for sympathy or what....

[snip]
>I helped repair the feed at the 90 ft dish at Owens Valley during our VLBI
> observation. The system temperature suddenly went up well over 200 degrees
> while we were montioring it one night. WOW!
[snip]

200 degrees???

Noise temperature is conventionally measured in Kelvins? What!!! A nitty,
nerdy, statement from a novice.

Certainly not what one should expect from a Cornell Ph.D.

Chip, you worry me... are you sure that Cornell gave you a degree...
sometimes I wonder!

[snip]
>We worried that the dish had come
> loose and was slewing towards the ground!
[snip]

Slewing towards where? Of which ground do you speak? Buzzword compliant,
but not very bright.

[snip]
>Crawling up the tripod--again a risky
> exercise--revealed a plump bumble bee trying to nest in the feed. A long
cotton
> swab convinced him otherwise.
[snip]

Were you looking for a "purple heart", what a stupid thing for a poor
unsupervised graduate student to be doing!

Is this statement supplosed to envince our admiration for your knowledge of
antenna electromagnetics and antenna engineering?

Why didn't you use the "sky hook", that's what they told me to do in the
Navy...

[snip]
> These days most VLBI is done
> in absentia, but in the old days, students were sent to the telescopes to
help
> cope with whatever went wrong. Sure was fun!
[snip]

Well I would be more impressed with stories of antics by sailors hunting
subs in the North Atlantic.

Or by roustabouts and dynamite men on seismic exploration "spreads".

I recall in the summer of 19xx when I was operating a hifix station on Cape
Sable island, when the dynamite shot boat with 100 tons of TNT exploded 50
miles off Cape Sable island during a multi-dimensional DSP array signal
processing search for Sable island under water/ground oil and gas to supply
your "yuppie" SUV with fuel.

Now that was impressive, when everyone on that shot boat jumped into the
North Atlantic after the fire started., before the dynamite went off 5 hours
later!

Chip, what's your point?? What is more impressive, solving problems for
human beings, or searching for extraterrestial life??? Who cares?

[snip]
>
> There are several good radio astronomy sites on the web. E-mail if you're
> interested and can't find them.
[snip]

There is lots of practical work going on all around you trying to solve real
problems of real people using array processing techinques.

I still ask... What the hexx did your Ph.D. dissertation have to do with
antennas and antenna engineering?

What indeed???

Chip, Dr. Cohen, whoever... go blow on another NG. How about the SETI site,
or a radio astronomy site.

We hams who have to do practical antenna work, don't need this BS....

Peter K1PO

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 12:28:39 -0700
From: futurebots <fub...@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Help, Any SETI doit yourself web sites out there..

Hello,

Is there any doit yourself Radio Astro web sites out there to tell you
how to build from old satlite dishes?

Thanks

--
Dan Mathias
--------------------------
Future-Bot Components Phone/Fax (561) 575-1487
106 Commerce way, A8 http://www.futurebots.com
Jupiter, Fl. 33458 USA Email: fub...@bellsouth.net
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robotic and Electronic Components for the Hobbyist and Professional..

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:56:21 -0700
From: AC6V <ac...@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Help, Any SETI doit yourself web sites out there..

futurebots wrote:

> Hello,
> Is there any doit yourself Radio Astro web sites out there to tell you
> how to build from old satlite dishes?
> Thanks
> Dan Mathias

===========
Dan -- try URL:
http://ac6v.com/pageaas.html

--
73 From Rod In Oceanside, CA
Amateur Radio & DX Reference Guide
Featuring 100+ Pages, 750 Indexed Topics & 3000 Links
http://ac6v.com/
Over 725,000 Hits On The Counter

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:40:25 -0700
From: Brooke Clarke <bro...@pacific.net>
Subject: Help, Any SETI doit yourself web sites out there..

Hello Dan:

There is an article by Barny Oliver (spelling?) that in so many words says
that you are not going to hear any SETI with a small dish. Further (with
some reasonable qualifications) if a 1,000 people do the same thing, they
still will not hear anything. The analogy is that no matter how many
people on the same side of a 100 foot wide canyon have a 1 foot bridge and
they are all in parallel, they are not going to cross the canyon.

The SETI project where you use your computers spare time makes much more
sense.

73,

Brooke

futurebots wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Is there any doit yourself Radio Astro web sites out there to tell you
> how to build from old satlite dishes?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Dan Mathias
> --------------------------
> Future-Bot Components Phone/Fax (561) 575-1487
> 106 Commerce way, A8 http://www.futurebots.com
> Jupiter, Fl. 33458 USA Email: fub...@bellsouth.net
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Robotic and Electronic Components for the Hobbyist and Professional..

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:36:24 -0600
From: Marv Luse <mwl...@dimensional.com>
Subject: Help, Any SETI doit yourself web sites out there..

If you're looking for exraterrestrials, look no further than this NG. ;-)

73,

Marv
AB0IO

futurebots wrote:

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:04:13 GMT
From: Your Name <msd...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Hex Beam Article?????

Does anyone know which ARRL Antenna book contains the most detailed
article on building a Hex Beam? Thanks.
Marc

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jul 2000 01:21:31 GMT
From: k1...@aol.com (K1BQT)
Subject: Hex Beam Article?????

Hi Marc--

I'm not aware the League has ever published an article on how to construct a
Hex Beam. The designer published an article on Hex Beam construction for
Communications Quarterly, a former CQ publication, which was recently
purchased
by QEX. You might contact the League and see if they can assist you in
obtaining a copy (I presume they have all back issues because there's
editorial
speculation they may put Comm Quart out on a CD). If they cannot help
you--as
would be their primary responsibility --contact me. I have a complete
archive
and can probably provide you with a copy for a SASE.

Rick K1BQT

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 02:56:32 GMT
From: cath...@erols.com (Set'em up Joe)
Subject: Homebrewed Quads? How Difficult? How Expensive?

Greetings,

I'm not sure if this question belongs here or in rec.radio.homebrew.

I'd like to know how feasible it is to homebrew your own Quad and whether
or not anyone knows of any web-sites with designs for such a project.

THX,

Andrew

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jul 2000 03:35:29 GMT
From: k1...@aol.com (K1BQT)
Subject: Homebrewed Quads? How Difficult? How Expensive?

Hi Andrew--

The ARRL Antenna Handbook presents information on the basics of quad design
and
some practical projects, but probably the best resouce I've seen is "The
Quad
Antenna" by Bob Haviland (W4MB) --a CQ publication. Good luck--interesting
topic.

Rick K1BQT

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jul 2000 10:20:07 GMT
From: kg4...@aol.com (KG4FET)
Subject: Homebrewed Quads? How Difficult? How Expensive?

http://www.packetradio.com/ant.htm#hp6mdpl There is a Quad calculator on
this page and some great suggestions. Look down toward the bottom of the
page
or there are some other projects on there as well to look at as far as
antennas
go. Buck did a good job on this page.
73 de KG4FET Sandor

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:04:23 +0200
From: Folkert Geurink <geu...@iri.tudelft.nl>
Subject: How to build an ISOTRON antenna ?

Hi !

Does anybody know how to build an ISOTRON antenna like the ones on
http://www.wavehunter.com/hfantena.htm ?

73, Folkert PA3CQR

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:49:55 GMT
From: ham...@cloud.net.au (Hamish Moffatt VK3SB)
Subject: I want to buy an antenna , under US$100, BELOW 30Mhz, any
suggestion

In rec.radio.amateur.dx Mel Martin <m...@interlink.net> wrote:
> Traps are fine... typically the only noticeable effect will be a
> shortening of the antenna due to inductive loading which results in
> narrower bandwidth, and of course they can be a trouble point with high
> power, but traps DO NOT have a much effect on gain. Don't confuse theory
> with marketing hype.

My point was about the insertion loss of the traps. I understand that
they can be quite lossy. A friend of mine who has the same trapless
5-band vertical as I do bought a Cushcraft trapped vertical second
hand and compared them side by side; signals on the the trapped vertical
were quite a bit lower in strength.

Hamish
--
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <ham...@debian.org> <ham...@cloud.net.au>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 01:17:29 -0500
From: Mark Keith <nm...@wt.net>
Subject: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! !

N2EY wrote:
>
> In article <20000718184145...@ng-da1.aol.com>, k1...@aol.com
> (K1BQT) writes:
>
> >It's nice to be romantic. But the FAA also demands that you be
responsible
> >for
> >the decisions you make in the air--especially when the woman you love is
> >sitting there beside you. They say, "when you raise eagles, you must
turn
> >them
> >loose and let them fly". But real eagles have different instincts--they
> >don't
> >crash and kill the ones they love.
> >
> I agree 100% - but there's more to the story....
>
> JFK Jr. wanted to fly for years, but Jackie pressured him not to. She also
> pushed him to break up with Darryl Hannah because she thought the
Hollywood
> crowd wasn't what her son should be involved in.
>
> Only after she was gone did JFK Jr. start flying. He was not an
experienced
> pilot - and said so. His original flight plan was to do a straight
daylight run
> to their destination, but his xyl wanted them to give her sister a lift
there.
> She pushed him to alter their trip to make a stop and pick up her sister,
even
> though it meant flying over water after dark. JFK Jr. finally gave in -
and the
> rest is history.
>
> Poor devil let his aviation judgement be swayed by non-aviation
considerations.
>
> RIP, John John.
>
> 73 de Jim, N2EY

Wasn't very good flying thats for sure. And his fairly new plane was
well equipped with nav gear. The only excuse for a crash like that would
be a failed artificial horizon. That can get even a medium/good pilot if
in the soup. But I very much doubt he lost his. I would have never
crashed like that, and I've never flown a real plane, only simulators.
But I have hundreds of hours of practice flying IFR on them. That
scenario would have been simple for me. It should have been for him
also. But alas not enough practice flying by instruments. A shame, but
his fault really. Shouldn't have gone at night over water with meager
IFR skills. You must always ignore what you feel when flying in the
soup. He didn't do this. He should have been using the instruments, and
ignored what he felt in his rear end. Will get you every time if you
don't. I set up the sim for his flight after that happened, with the
same plane, and set the vis very low. I had no problems at all, and it
was so foggy I couldn't see the approach lights until I was nearly on
top of them on landing. I was totally souped in the whole flight. No
problemo for me when I ran it. I usually sim jets, so a slow prop even
easier for me. Everything is in slow motion compared to say a learjet or
737 etc. MK
--
http://web.wt.net/~nm5k

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 00:22:16 GMT
From: "George , W5YR" <w5...@att.net>
Subject: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! !

Mark, how well does your sim play in the rough air and vertigo-inducing
turbulence, the noise and vibration, and the feeling deep in your gut
that only your skill and the mechanical condition of the plane - plus the
ever unknown factor of the weather in the next 5 minutes - are keeping
you and your passengers out of the ground or water.

I have very little time with sims, but several hundred hours of night
stick time under a variety of conditions.

Believe me, it ain't the same!

But, I completely agree with your thesis: the pilot was not competent for
such a flight and should never have started. As is too often the
situation these days, the airplane was way more qualified than the pilot.

But even a new private pilot knows that if you should lose the artificial
horizon or any of the gyro instruments, you fall back on basic
instruments and practice the age-old recovery from unusual attitudes:

1. center the needle
2. center the ball
3. check the airspeed

Hardly ever fails since Jimmy Doolittle's days in the 20's.

72/73, George W5YR - the Yellow Rose of Texas
Fairview, TX 30 mi NE Dallas in Collin county QRP-L 1373
Amateur Radio W5YR, in the 54th year and it just keeps getting better!
R/C since 1964 - AMA 98452 RVing since 1972 Kachina #91900556
(12/99)

Mark Keith wrote:
>
> N2EY wrote:
> >
> > In article <20000718184145...@ng-da1.aol.com>, k1...@aol.com
> > (K1BQT) writes:
> >
> > >It's nice to be romantic. But the FAA also demands that you be
responsible
> > >for
> > >the decisions you make in the air--especially when the woman you love
is
> > >sitting there beside you. They say, "when you raise eagles, you must
turn
> > >them
> > >loose and let them fly". But real eagles have different
instincts--they
> > >don't
> > >crash and kill the ones they love.
> > >
> > I agree 100% - but there's more to the story....
> >
> > JFK Jr. wanted to fly for years, but Jackie pressured him not to. She
also
> > pushed him to break up with Darryl Hannah because she thought the
Hollywood
> > crowd wasn't what her son should be involved in.
> >
> > Only after she was gone did JFK Jr. start flying. He was not an
experienced
> > pilot - and said so. His original flight plan was to do a straight
daylight run
> > to their destination, but his xyl wanted them to give her sister a lift
there.
> > She pushed him to alter their trip to make a stop and pick up her
sister, even
> > though it meant flying over water after dark. JFK Jr. finally gave in -
and the
> > rest is history.
> >
> > Poor devil let his aviation judgement be swayed by non-aviation
considerations.
> >
> > RIP, John John.
> >
> > 73 de Jim, N2EY
>
> Wasn't very good flying thats for sure. And his fairly new plane was
> well equipped with nav gear. The only excuse for a crash like that would
> be a failed artificial horizon. That can get even a medium/good pilot if
> in the soup. But I very much doubt he lost his. I would have never
> crashed like that, and I've never flown a real plane, only simulators.
> But I have hundreds of hours of practice flying IFR on them. That
> scenario would have been simple for me. It should have been for him
> also. But alas not enough practice flying by instruments. A shame, but
> his fault really. Shouldn't have gone at night over water with meager
> IFR skills. You must always ignore what you feel when flying in the
> soup. He didn't do this. He should have been using the instruments, and
> ignored what he felt in his rear end. Will get you every time if you
> don't. I set up the sim for his flight after that happened, with the
> same plane, and set the vis very low. I had no problems at all, and it
> was so foggy I couldn't see the approach lights until I was nearly on
> top of them on landing. I was totally souped in the whole flight. No
> problemo for me when I ran it. I usually sim jets, so a slow prop even
> easier for me. Everything is in slow motion compared to say a learjet or
> 737 etc. MK
> --
> http://web.wt.net/~nm5k

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 00:37:25 GMT
From: 2w...@contesting.com (Tom W8JI)
Subject: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! !

On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 00:22:16 GMT, "George , W5YR" <w5...@att.net>
wrote:

>But even a new private pilot knows that if you should lose the artificial
>horizon or any of the gyro instruments, you fall back on basic
>instruments and practice the age-old recovery from unusual attitudes:
>
>1. center the needle
>2. center the ball
>3. check the airspeed

What is the needle, what is the ball? And why does it work?

73 Tom

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jul 2000 01:07:04 GMT
From: k1...@aol.com (K1BQT)
Subject: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! !

Hi Tom--

I'll do my best:

1. center the needle
2. center the ball
3. check the airspeed

>What is the needle...

Next time you're aroused and standing flat footed, see which way your needle
points. If it's not striaght up, contact your Chiropractor or Bear
Alignement
Specialist to have it calibrated.

> what is the ball?

It tells you if you're skidding or not. If you don't keep your eye on the
ball, you might start to skid. If you really start to skid, you might start
to
scoot. If you start to scoot, both balls may hit obstructions and alert you
to
your condition (like the "oow oow bird"). Most pilots seek an immediate
correction whenever this occurs.

>And why does it work?

Some people think they know. But, in truth, no one knows. The FAA doesn't
know. The NTSB doesn't know either. But, it works and has saved thousands
of
lives.

Rick K1BQT
FAA 5424763
N3389J (which, last time I checked the online FAA registry, was either
scrapped
or demolished and out of service). RIP

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:07:26 -0400
From: Jerry Oxendine <jox...@bellsouth.net>
Subject: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! !

Mark,

I don't mean to challenge your skills as a simulator pilot, but I guar-
antee that if you go up in a real airplane, go under the "hood", you
will become disoriented in less than one minute! The thing your simu-
lator lacks is the motion, for one thing, that the aircraft has.
Without a visual reference, your body will tell you you are in a turn.
You will begin to respond to what your senses are telling you in spite
of your instruments. It takes hours of training in a REAL airplane to
learn to trust your instruments instead of your inner ear that's telling
you that you are in a gradual turn to the left, for example. Your
senses may also tell you you are diving. An inexperienced flyer may
begin to (unknowingly) pull up as he begins to "correct" for the
perceived turn. This results in what is called an accelerated stall.
The outside wing stalls first (higher angle of attack)--remember
that he is now turning to the right thinking he was in a left turn.
He can then enter a spin, or flip upside down. By now he is totally
confused as to which way is up/down and, likely, in a panic. We know
what happens next.

One CANNOT fly an airplane in IFR conditions based on sim. time and
without ACTUAL flight training. George? Care to elaborate?

Respectfully,

Jerry
K4KWH

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:51:08 -0700
From: Bart Rowlett <ba...@wb6hqk.ampr.org>
Subject: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! !

Tom W8JI wrote:
>
> On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 00:22:16 GMT, "George , W5YR" <w5...@att.net>
> wrote:
>
> >But even a new private pilot knows that if you should lose the artificial
> >horizon or any of the gyro instruments, you fall back on basic
> >instruments and practice the age-old recovery from unusual attitudes:
> >
> >1. center the needle
> >2. center the ball
> >3. check the airspeed
>
> What is the needle, what is the ball? And why does it work?

The so called 'needle' indicates the rate of turn about the yaw axis of
the aircraft.

The instrument is the simplest, and considered the most reliable of all
gyro based sensors. Regardless of acceleration or attitude, the
instrument reliably indicates the rate of turn about the yaw axis.
Unlike the magnetic compass, which is affected by acceleration and roll,
the rate of turn indicator is an unambiguous indication of heading
change.

The so called 'ball' is literally a marble whose diameter is slightly
smaller than the U shaped glass tube which constrains it. The tube is
filled with liquid for damping. The purpose of the ball is to indicate
the vector sum of gravity and centripetal acceleration. Except when
intentionally slipping, skidding or in stable inverted flight, the ball
should remain centered at the bottom of the U tube. During straight
flight, if you were to drop the starboard (right) wing in a slip while
maintaining heading, the ball would appear to roll (in the U shaped
tube) towards the right.

During normal straight flight, both the needle and ball will remain
centered.

During normal turns the needle will indicate the rate of turn and the
ball should stay centered.

Changing airspeed usually indicates either a nose up or nose down state
and should be promptly remedied if the pilot feels confused.

bart
wb6hqk

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:12:10 -0400
From: "W4JLE" <w4...@alltel.net>
Subject: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! !

"Tom W8JI" <2w...@contesting.com> wrote in message
> What is the needle, what is the ball? And why does it work?
>
> 73 Tom

The needle is a gyro instrument that shows turn rate. The ball is a ball in
a curved tube. Works on gravity to show wings level with no turn in
progress. The air speed clues you if you are climbing or diving. An
increasing airspeed indication a nose down attitude.

The procedure is to stop the turn with the rudder, level the wings with the
ailerons, and adjust pitch by observing airspeed. All non electrical
instruments so works even in total power failure.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 03:40:11 GMT
From: "George , W5YR" <w5...@att.net>
Subject: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! !

No, Jerry, you covered it well. Simulators have their place and are
irreplaceable in modern aviation, but casual use can create false
impressions of just how very difficult it is to control an aircraft
without visual reference to the horizon.

Sadly, when you are at several thousand feet at night with no moon
skirting thunderstorms and trying to tune radios and read approach
plates, etc., you don't get to reach over and reboot the program and try
again! ;^)

Jerry Oxendine wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> One CANNOT fly an airplane in IFR conditions based on sim. time and
> without ACTUAL flight training. George? Care to elaborate?
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Jerry
> K4KWH

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 03:34:18 GMT
From: "George , W5YR" <w5...@att.net>
Subject: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! !

The basic instruments in an aircraft include, among others, the needle
and ball (turn and bank indicator) and the airspeed indicator.

When an aircraft gets into an unusual attitude and/or the pilot becomes
disoriented for any of a variety of reasons, recovery is usually made in
modern aircraft with the aid of the gyro-driven instruments, chiefly the
artificial horizon or attitude indicator and the directional gyro.

If these instruments are not working or, in simple aircraft, are not
included, then the pilot is forced to rely up the basic instruments,
which usually include those mentioned above, plus the altimeter, magnetic
compass, etc.

The recovery procedure consists of first centering the needle of the turn
and bank indicator - this is done with the ailerons in an effort to
"level" the wings and stop any turning moment of the aircraft. Second,
the rudder is used to center the ball of the turn and bank indicator to
stop any slipping or skidding motion.

If successful, these first two steps have brought the aircraft to a
normal lateral attitude and stopped any turning motion. The final third
step is to correct any climb or dive of the aircraft. This is done by
combined use of the elevator and throttle controls to bring the aircraft
to a nose-level attitude, using the readings of the airspeed indicator as
a guide..

It is standard in all aircraft pilot training to practice
unusual-attitude recovery both by basic instruments and gyro-driven
instruments. A common failure of IFR-certified aircraft is that of one or
more gyro instruments, frequently by failure of the vacuum or electrical
sources used to power them. Aircraft certificated for IFR flight must
provide backup power sources for the gyro instruments.

In the final analysis, it is the direct responsibility of any pilot who
may intentionally or otherwise find himself in IFR conditions to be able
to recover the aircraft to normal flight by use of basic instruments
only.

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jul 2000 04:07:15 GMT
From: k1...@aol.com (K1BQT)
Subject: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! !

Really good description, George.

I'd only add that VFR pilots generally receive some "hood time" prior to
testing to reduce the chance of control loss, should they stray into IFR
condtions by mistake. During the flight test, my FAA examiner put me under
the
hood in moderate turbulence as soon as the wheels broke ground and left me
there for quite awhile. However, this training is very minimal compared to
what instrument students receive, with none of the advanced "recovery from
unusual attitudes" exercises that would probably turn most beginners
totally
green. Trusting instruments when all of your insticts (and possibly your
freaked out passengers) tell you something else is happening can be very
difficult!

Rick K1BQT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:42:55 -0500
From: Mark Keith <nm...@wt.net>
Subject: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! !

George , W5YR wrote:
>
> Mark, how well does your sim play in the rough air and vertigo-inducing
> turbulence, the noise and vibration, and the feeling deep in your gut
> that only your skill and the mechanical condition of the plane - plus the
> ever unknown factor of the weather in the next 5 minutes - are keeping
> you and your passengers out of the ground or water.
>
> I have very little time with sims, but several hundred hours of night
> stick time under a variety of conditions.
>
> Believe me, it ain't the same!
>
> But, I completely agree with your thesis: the pilot was not competent for
> such a flight and should never have started. As is too often the
> situation these days, the airplane was way more qualified than the pilot.
>
> But even a new private pilot knows that if you should lose the artificial
> horizon or any of the gyro instruments, you fall back on basic
> instruments and practice the age-old recovery from unusual attitudes:
>
> 1. center the needle
> 2. center the ball
> 3. check the airspeed

Yep, but evidently many don't learn it too well, cuz I I hear of quite a
few that go in with a bad A/H. Had one in this area about 5 years ago.
But as far as the feel, sure, thats not there, but the effects of the
weather on the flight model are. But thats my point really, shouldn't
rely on feel when you can't see anything. With all the sim flying, it's
just natural for me to level out, just using the instruments. About as
automatic as having good weather/outside vision. "Assumming a good A/H
of course". And like others said, he could have tuned a VOR, etc, and
gone that route if lost in the muck. Heck, if all else fails put the
autopilot on and circle around until he decided where he wanted to go. I
think his plane may have had one. Pretty sure it did.I'm sure many won't
believe, as I'm a non- real world pilot, but I could have taken over the
controls of that plane and made it to the airport. I know just as sure
as I can back my car out of the driveway. I can adjust quickly to the
feel of nearly any plane as far as flight control feel,as I sim many
different types, and would adjust to the conditions. I'm sure I would
get a little sweaty, but I know what to do as far as navigation. I
practice IFR using all real world charts. Have low /high alt enroute,
plates, IFR supplements, the whole nine yards. I doubt he had much
experience with these. Unfortunate...I think the sims are great for
nav/IFR training, but like you say, nothing will replace the real world,
and the noise, radios,wind, etc going. I think all real world pilots
should practice navigation on sims in addition to the real thing. It
really does help. Even the navy is using them now for the cadets here in
Texas. If you fly jets on the sim IFR with the fast pace they give you,
after a while the props a piece of cake being as you have much more time
to react and function. Saves alot of gas practicing. Also you can rig
the sim I use up for motion just like the big boys, but I haven't had
the money to waste. I know a few now, that have half blown boeing
cockpits in their house. Some even use parts of the original planes.
"Throttle quadrants etc.". It's moving real fast the past few years. The
sim I run now is light years ahead of what I used 8 years ago. And it
gets better constantly with add on stuff. Also new versions every year
or two. I have a very accurate 757/767 panel and planes, but all monitor
viewed here. But all the controls are as real world including the
autopilot etc. Have many other types also of course, but that one the
best of the bunch. I know a few puter pilots who have gone into airline
flight simulators and flown them pretty good with just a little coaching
from the instructor. I know one who flew a 747 sim, and the instructor
was quite surprised, and said he did fairly good so they must help quite
a bit. He said once he climbed in he already knew where most everthing
was and what it did, so was fairly quick to go. MK

--
http://web.wt.net/~nm5k

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:10:51 -0700
From: Bart Rowlett <ba...@wb6hqk.ampr.org>
Subject: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! !

Mark Keith wrote:
>
>
> With all the sim flying, it's
> just natural for me to level out, just using the instruments. About as
> automatic as having good weather/outside vision. "Assumming a good A/H
> of course". And like others said, he could have tuned a VOR, etc, and
> gone that route if lost in the muck. Heck, if all else fails put the
> autopilot on and circle around until he decided where he wanted to go. I
> think his plane may have had one. Pretty sure it did.I'm sure many won't
> believe, as I'm a non- real world pilot, but I could have taken over the
> controls of that plane and made it to the airport. I know just as sure
> as I can back my car out of the driveway. I can adjust quickly to the
> feel of nearly any plane as far as flight control feel,as I sim many
> different types, and would adjust to the conditions.

Simulators are great but even the full motion implementations fall short
of training in an actual aircraft.

Why don't you go to your local airport and find one of the fixed base
operators (FBO)
who offer a low cost introductory flight lesson. Explain your simulator
experience to the instructor and ask him to modify the usual lesson plan
to include a unusual attitude recovery exercise. Tell him you're no
wimp and want the 'full effect'. Assure him (or her) you have no
intention of taking flying lessons so that they don't need to be
concerned about frightening away a business prospect.

Have the instructor report back to the newsgroup.

bart

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 00:05:57 -0500
From: Mark Keith <nm...@wt.net>
Subject: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! !

Jerry Oxendine wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> I don't mean to challenge your skills as a simulator pilot, but I guar-
> antee that if you go up in a real airplane, go under the "hood", you
> will become disoriented in less than one minute! The thing your simu-
> lator lacks is the motion, for one thing, that the aircraft has.
> Without a visual reference, your body will tell you you are in a turn.
> You will begin to respond to what your senses are telling you in spite
> of your instruments. It takes hours of training in a REAL airplane to
> learn to trust your instruments instead of your inner ear that's telling
> you that you are in a gradual turn to the left, for example.

Why??? I know to trust my instruments over what I feel. I wouldn't pay
attention to what I feel, because I already know not to do this. If I'm
in a gradual turn to the left, I'll see it in the instruments.

Your
> senses may also tell you you are diving. An inexperienced flyer may
> begin to (unknowingly) pull up as he begins to "correct" for the
> perceived turn. This results in what is called an accelerated stall.
> The outside wing stalls first (higher angle of attack)--remember
> that he is now turning to the right thinking he was in a left turn.
> He can then enter a spin, or flip upside down. By now he is totally
> confused as to which way is up/down and, likely, in a panic. We know
> what happens next.

If my senses told me I was diving, I would check the instruments. I
would be watching the altimeter, rate of climb, turn indicator, etc,
etc. I know what to do if I'm diving.
>
> One CANNOT fly an airplane in IFR conditions based on sim. time and
> without ACTUAL flight training. George? Care to elaborate?

I'm sure it wouldn't be pretty. In fact it would probably would be ugly
compared to an experienced pilot. But I think I'd be a leg up on one
that had no IFR training at all. At least I know what to do. You are
describing what I think he did. I'm still convinced I would have enough
sense to keep it straight, and get somewhere in one piece. Heck, I can
swivel around in my chair here at the sim, and get someone to shake me,
etc, etc, it's not going to effect what I do to the airplane. I go by
instruments only. And I'm used to the doubters, so doesn't bother
me...g I have quite a few real pilot friends. Actually, it's funny, a
few think I could do it, and the rest think as you do. One of the ones
thats thinks I could, flies a lear 31, and actually uses the sim I do.
He said the lear is pretty accurate and if you can fly the sim, you can
probably fly the real thing because he says the sim is actually
harder.Much worse perspective and vision etc. .g MK

--
http://web.wt.net/~nm5k

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:34:25 -0400
From: "W4JLE" <w4...@alltel.net>
Subject: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! !

"Mark Keith" <nm...@wt.net> wrote in message news:397E71...@wt.net...

> Why??? I know to trust my instruments over what I feel. I wouldn't pay
> attention to what I feel, because I already know not to do this. If I'm
> in a gradual turn to the left, I'll see it in the instruments.

One thing different from the simulator, if you screw it up in real life you
die. Terror has a way of causing you to focus on the wrong things. With out
training the average non instrument rated pilot in actual IFR lasts 720
seconds. I have over 8000 hours in everything from Cubs to Lear 35 and if I
am away from it for a few months, I get so far behind the airplane that if
it was involved in a mid-air I wouldn't be hurt. Things that can be
rationally thought about in your living room take on different proportions
when flying in lighting, hail, rain or other nonsense to add to the picture.

Comm ASMEL Inst LJ and DC3 Type ratings PP glider aero tow only.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 03:54:52 GMT
From: eh...@bellatlantic.net
Subject: Magnetic Radiator question

What about the DDRR? Is it an example of what some people
call a "magnetic antenna". (I'm not sure what "magnetic antenna"
means.) Anecdotal "evidence" says it works as well, or better
than, a 5/8 car roof mounted antenna on 2M.

My own version lost in the A/B comparison tests on my
minivan. Most of the time (morning commute), the antennas
both "heard" the repeater equally. When there was a difference,
70% of the time the 5/8 was better, and 30% the DDRR was
better. "Better" was a higher indication on the Yaesu
5200 RF strength LCD - more bars indicated meant
"better". Hardly laboratory equipment or test - but
very definite observable difference when it occurred
as I drove.

My version was not the best - I built it over a
small aluminum ground plane which I tied onto the roof.
I plan a second version to be built over a bigger, copper
ground plane, with 4 magnets to hold it to the roof. I
also made a "trombone" style element to adjust the
length by about + or - 3/4" for the original, with a small
capacitive plate. The next one will have no trombone -
just copper tube, and a larger capacitive plate.

Any way, this is an antenna where, when you bend the
wire (actually, tubing), you get magic! It's a very low
profile radiator - about 3" high - that certainly works
better than a 1/4 wave (and may work better than a
5/8 wave) mobile antenna for 2M.

I would appreciate any comments - particularly those
that point out errors in my approach - that will help me do
a better job of testing the next version.

W4JLE wrote:

> Doesn't it seem strange, every time someone bends the wire in an antenna,
> they think they have created something wonderful?
>
> The more bends, the greater the claim...
>
> Tom W8JI <2w...@contesting.com> wrote in message
> news:396d9fbf...@news.akorn.net...
> > On 13 Jul 2000 04:24:59 GMT, arduj...@aol.com (ARDUJENSKI) wrote:
> >
> > >(ps for those not familiar witrh the antenna it basically a wave loop
> with a
> > >half twist in the middle and folded back on itself and fairly close to
> the
> > >ground.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:19:55 -0700
From: Roy Lewallen <w7...@eznec.com>
Subject: Magnetic Radiator question

The term "magnetic" antenna has become popular in recent years as people
look for (and manufacturers purport to deliver) antennas with magical
properties. A small loop antenna, which has high current, could
reasonably called a "magnetic" antenna because the ratio of its magnetic
(H) field to electric (E) field is much greater than the ratio far from
the antenna. However, within a very short distance of the antenna (less
than a wavelength), the E/H ratio actually becomes greater than the
far-field value, although it fairly rapidly approaches the far-field
value of 377 ohms. Within less than a wavelength, the E/H ratio of all
ordinary antennas is esentially the same, and you can't tell whether the
signal comes from a "magnetic" or "electric" antenna. (The distance
where this occurs depends on the antenna type, and can be considerably
greater for large-aperture antennas like horns and parabolas. It also
depends on how close you call "close", since there's no abrupt
transition.)

Using this criterion, the DDRR, which is essentially a top-loaded short
vertical, qualifies as a "magnetic" antenna. But the relevant question
is "so what?" Whether an antenna is good or bad has nothing to do with
the E/H ratio close to the antenna.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

eh...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>
> What about the DDRR? Is it an example of what some people
> call a "magnetic antenna". (I'm not sure what "magnetic antenna"
> means.) Anecdotal "evidence" says it works as well, or better
> than, a 5/8 car roof mounted antenna on 2M.
>
> My own version lost in the A/B comparison tests on my
> minivan. Most of the time (morning commute), the antennas
> both "heard" the repeater equally. When there was a difference,
> 70% of the time the 5/8 was better, and 30% the DDRR was
> better. "Better" was a higher indication on the Yaesu
> 5200 RF strength LCD - more bars indicated meant
> "better". Hardly laboratory equipment or test - but
> very definite observable difference when it occurred
> as I drove.
>
> My version was not the best - I built it over a
> small aluminum ground plane which I tied onto the roof.
> I plan a second version to be built over a bigger, copper
> ground plane, with 4 magnets to hold it to the roof. I
> also made a "trombone" style element to adjust the
> length by about + or - 3/4" for the original, with a small
> capacitive plate. The next one will have no trombone -
> just copper tube, and a larger capacitive plate.
>
> Any way, this is an antenna where, when you bend the
> wire (actually, tubing), you get magic! It's a very low
> profile radiator - about 3" high - that certainly works
> better than a 1/4 wave (and may work better than a
> 5/8 wave) mobile antenna for 2M.
>
> I would appreciate any comments - particularly those
> that point out errors in my approach - that will help me do
> a better job of testing the next version.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 12:56:31 +0100
From: "Brian G0MJI" <br...@weirdspam.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: MFJ Analyser and Cushcraft vertical

A friend of mine has a multi-band Cushcraft vertical - I don't know the
model. It states on the instructions that antenna analysers will not work
with it. This has proven to be the case with odd readings. Does anyone
know why?

Thanks

Brian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:16:40 -0700
From: Cortland Richmond <Cortland...@usa.alcatel.com>
Subject: MFJ Analyser and Cushcraft vertical

Interesting. I wonder if they are using the feedline shield as part of the
radiating or ground structure? Lack of a long enough coax (as in using a
short
coax to the analyzer) would in that case reveal that the antenna is not the
whole system. Might you ask him the model number?

Cortland
(ka...@saber.net)

Brian G0MJI wrote:

> A friend of mine has a multi-band Cushcraft vertical - I don't know the
> model. It states on the instructions that antenna analysers will not work
> with it. This has proven to be the case with odd readings. Does anyone
> know why?
>
> Thanks
>
> Brian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:23:23 GMT
From: 2w...@contesting.com (Tom W8JI)
Subject: MFJ Analyser and Cushcraft vertical

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 12:56:31 +0100, "Brian G0MJI"
<br...@weirdspam.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>A friend of mine has a multi-band Cushcraft vertical - I don't know the
>model. It states on the instructions that antenna analysers will not work
>with it. This has proven to be the case with odd readings. Does anyone
>know why?

That can only happen in two cases:

1.) The feedline is radiating

2.) You are close to a strong BC station

73 Tom

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 03:13:54 GMT
From: "E. Hoover" <hooREMOV...@uk2.net>
Subject: MFJ Analyser and Cushcraft vertical

On a related note, I've heard that an antenna analyzer will not work
with "multi-band" dipoles, in the form of 2 or more dipoles joined at
the same feed point. Does anyone know the reason for this, if it is
actually the case, and I wonder if it would be related to the previous
question?

73, Erik KK7OA

Brian G0MJI wrote:
>
> A friend of mine has a multi-band Cushcraft vertical - I don't know the
> model. It states on the instructions that antenna analysers will not work
> with it. This has proven to be the case with odd readings. Does anyone
> know why?
>
> Thanks
>
> Brian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 03:43:32 GMT
From: "George , W5YR" <w5...@att.net>
Subject: MFJ Analyser and Cushcraft vertical

I suspect that is another urban myth.

I use an AEA/Tempo CIA-HF analyzer, and have used it with a wide variety
of antennas, including my attic antenna farm of *four* full-size dipoles
for 80, 40, 30 and 20 meters, fed with a common coax. Yes, it is a large
attic and there is some folding of the 80-meter element. The others are
straight, though.

I have never seen anything unexpected or unusual about the behavior of
the analyzer with any antenna.

"E. Hoover" wrote:
>
> On a related note, I've heard that an antenna analyzer will not work
> with "multi-band" dipoles, in the form of 2 or more dipoles joined at
> the same feed point. Does anyone know the reason for this, if it is
> actually the case, and I wonder if it would be related to the previous
> question?
>
> 73, Erik KK7OA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:00:26 +0100
From: "DENIS NAYLOR" <de...@gm3skn.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: MFJ Analyser and Cushcraft vertical

The MFJ analyser works just fine and shows all expected (and a few
unexpected) resonances in my Cushcraft R5 and any other multiband wire
antenna I have tried.
Its failing is known to be it's susceptibility to moderate to strong RF
fields which is not really surprising.

--
73, Deni GM3skn Shetland Islands UK
_ _ .. .. _ _

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:21:11 GMT
From: 2w...@contesting.com (Tom W8JI)
Subject: MFJ Analyser and Cushcraft vertical

On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 03:13:54 GMT, "E. Hoover"
<hooREMOV...@uk2.net> wrote:

>On a related note, I've heard that an antenna analyzer will not work
>with "multi-band" dipoles, in the form of 2 or more dipoles joined at
>the same feed point. Does anyone know the reason for this, if it is
>actually the case, and I wonder if it would be related to the previous
>question?
>
>73, Erik KK7OA

When someone builds an antenna that doesn't quite work the way it's
claimed, they often say "you can't xx this antenna like other
antennas".

Sometimes it's "model", sometimes it's "measure".

Ther is absolutely no reason why any antenna analyzer "won't measure"
and antenna correctly unless the antenna is bad, or unless the
environment has too much stray RF.

73 Tom

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jul 2000 11:14:32 GMT
From: frac...@aol.com (Fractenna)
Subject: MFJ Analyser and Cushcraft vertical

I still remember when WK1O and I checked out his beam with a MFJ 259
analyzer.
The SWR showed infinity. HIS rig's internal SWR meter showed 1.4:1.

We then got on the air, with that incredible amount of mismatch loss
predicted
by the MFJ 259, and worked oodles of DX.

Which do you think was wrong?

I would say there have been about 10% of the time when the 259 falls flat
on
it's face for my measurements--and I make lots and lots. This is almost
always
in the absence of any evidence for an RF source in the environment, which
could
produce strong RF fields.

The MFJ 259 is a nice device, but is limited--and sometimes
unpredictable--in
what it will accurately measure. I think MFJ and the 'inventor' would do
well
to present typical failure scenarios on the internet on the MFJ web page.

I guess the feeling is, 'it's cheap so don't complain'; and I do feel this
way
to a great extent. In many ways it's a super value. But I do feel that it's
a
shell game as to whether the thing will work sometimes.

Incidentally, I have the 440 MHz MFJ analyser and it doesn't work at all.
Quit
after a week.

73,
Chip N1IR

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 2000 14:18:23 GMT
From: tylleule...@aol.com (TyllEulenspiegel)
Subject: Pending Lawsuit Against EQUALIZER

Is this for real?

>Fractenna wrote in message
<19990806103109...@ng-fm1.aol.com>...
>>The message below was sent to the 'Equalizer', who has not responded.
>>
>>On 10 August, I will initiate proceedings against the Equalizer. Also,
>Fractal
>>Antenna Systems, Inc. will do so.
>>
>>It is anticipated that some time will elapse before dejanews surrenders
the
>>identity of this individual. If resolution is not attained in six months
>then
>>the known offending individuals will be sued. It is probable that the
>Equalizer
>>is one of those individuals.
>>
>>Nathan Cohen, Ph.D.
>
>Chip: Almost a year has passed, and we the NG haven't heard ANYTHING from
>you about the identity of the Equalizer.Soooo... how's the lawsuit
>progressing??? Please keep us informed as I do so want this issue to reach
>closure for you.
>
>Best regards,
>Mike Lucas W5CHR
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 15:37:10 -0400
From: "Anon" <anon...@cotse.com>
Subject: Tall Tale of the FRACTAL K2 FRYER!

Yes reader it sure looks like that Fractal Free Ranger "IR
Chip" has started his now normal antenna frying and "band
cookin'!

While crowing like a Road Island Red Rooster the following
statements where blurted forth:

At about 7:00 Am of the 23 day of July 2000.

>In a few days, the antenna will be on the web and
thousands will view it in the
>first few weeks.

I guess this must the Chiper's version of the Sagen cosmic
television production where he indicated "thousands and
thousands of stars".

And then at about 8:20 AM of the 23 day of July 2000.

>Just want to mention that the K2 FRACTAL FLYER page will
go up on the web site
>a little delayed. Frankly, I'm having too much fun with
it! Shooting for DXCC
>with a casual and limited operating schedule. Have to
work out the NE and then
>will turn antenna SE. Then will place on web site when I
get the time.
>
>I imagine mid August, rather than late July.

I guess that while cookin'! the band data some fat must of
hit the fire and in the procces of that flash back
a "Executive" decision was reached in order to keep the
fractenna "Coming soon to your galaxy" delivery record
unblemished.
He did say mid August, Now will it be 2001,2002,2003?
Pick a number any number...

As always may the Fractus be with you one and All.

"Anom"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:27:52 -0500
From: Arthur Unwin <aun...@fgi.net>
Subject: Two reflector revisited

I can and do accept that two reflectors in an optimised yagi
will provide no additional advantage for f/b
...............as long as we rule out changes effected by ground.
It is ground that seems to be so easily dismissed by all
whether it be the the capacitive coupling
or its actual effect on the radiation to the rear.
I do not have the ability to see with the clarity of the many
why two reflectors is such a no no
but I accept it when we are talking about" optimisation "
( a difinitive term when used for F/B/R)
which is clearly the dominant view.of the group

In the discussion regarding the above it was stated( or infered )
that::
1. Extra reflectors can assist in F/B if moved from the general
plane (up and down)of the antenna, presumably still holding
on to "optimised" and" F/B/R" terms
2. Total radiation to the rear can not be fully suppressed
for inline arrays
3. Nulls in the rear radiation pattern are ' washed' out
somewhat by the impact of earth

In my initial posting I reported the appearance
of sibling forward lobes( this observation
apparently being of no consequence to the
question posed) which I can only assume
came from the affect of ground.on large arrays
And the apparent removal of the sibling lobes
by redirecting the effect of ground by the use
of another reflector
I think it would help if some one could explain
the appearance of these sibling forward lobes
in larger arrays rather than thumping on the extra
reflector part so that that all can focus on ways
of harnessing them whether it be by second
reflector which appears to have hit the dust
or by other means which I am sure this august
group will be able to provide
I have learned an awful lot from this thread
and you all have my thanks
so I would appreciate some finality in the whys
and wherefore of the sibling lobes and the
effect of ground in the real world over the
nulls portrayed by the simulation programs
Thank all for your inputs

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 2000 16:24:10 -0400
From: jwf...@toad.net (John Frank)
Subject: US Tower MA550MDP recabling

In article <8lj0j8$k3e$1...@vax.area.com>, ri...@vax.area.com says...
>
>In article <ryansci.6...@infoave.net>,
>Stephen Reichlyn <rya...@infoave.net> wrote:
>>Can anyone provide me with a diagram of the cabling of the motorized
>>US Tower MA550MDP tubular tower. My cable has broken and must
>>be replaced. I'd be happy to pay for copying or faxing costs.
>>My fax number is 843-884-5568. Thanks for any help.
>>Steve AA4V
>
>I'm in the same situation (except my cable hasn't broken "yet",
>but is merely 15 years old). I'll also pay for copying/faxing.
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Rick N6RK
>
Have you guys tried US Tower? I'm sure they would provide
you the diagrams and also be happy to sell you a new cable(s).

John K3IC

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 00:57:48 -0500
From: Mark Keith <nm...@wt.net>
Subject: very short 15/40 meter antenna

Ralph Blach wrote:
>
> For reasons of compactnes, I need a very short 15/40 meter
> antenna. Effecieny is not an issue, size is.
>
> I plan to use this antenna on camping trips with a qrp rig.
> the antenna should be no longer than 10 feet end to end.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks and 73's
>
> Chip

A loaded dipole with hi-q coils, but if you are camping, why only 10
ft???? You should have more room than that around unless you want to put
an antenna inside an rv. ? Me? I string dipoles up in trees. For 40/15,
simple...A 40 meter dipole, full sized of course, thrown over trees or
whatever. It works 15 as is no problem. I prefer coax usually, but have
used multi band dipoles with LL and a tuner also at times. Of course a
40m dipole is about 65 ft long total, but thats never been a problem so
far. Actually, I usually put up 80m also. 120 ft long. Again thrown over
nearby tree limbs. MK
--
http://web.wt.net/~nm5k

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:17:00 -0700
From: "Charles" <cha...@ab7sl.com>
Subject: Visit at www.ab7sl.com

The F.A.Q. Page on my site addresses your concerns.

Charles T Johnston - AB7SL
cha...@ab7sl.com
AB7SL- Ham Radio Pages
http://www.ab7sl.com

"Tom Brown" <t...@signalgrp.com> wrote in message
news:397E38C7...@signalgrp.com...
> Hey, Charles,
>
> Have you considered that one or two posts a month about your minimally
interesting
> site would be enough? Anything else is abuse. Give it a rest.
>
> Tom
>
>
> --
>
> Tom Brown
> Wake Forest, NC
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Charles wrote:
>
> .............a bunch of redundant stuff snipped................
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:03:03 -0400
From: Tom Brown <t...@signalgrp.com>
Subject: Visit at www.ab7sl.com

Hey, Charles,

Have you considered that one or two posts a month about your minimally
interesting
site would be enough? Anything else is abuse. Give it a rest.

Tom

Tom Brown
Wake Forest, NC

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Charles wrote:

.............a bunch of redundant stuff snipped................

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:46:01 -0500
From: Bill Aycock <bay...@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Visit at www.ab7sl.com

Charles- with due respect- You're beginning to sound like chip-his ploy
is to tell us that he has told us- we should do our homework. It doesn't
work for him and it doesn't work for you.

I, also, think about once a month is enough for your self promotion. I
see no reason to go to your FAQ to find out why you do it. It is
obvious- you want attention. Your site is fair, but has too many
gimmicks.

Once a month is really enough. (IMNSHO)

Bill-W4BSG

Charles wrote:
>
> The F.A.Q. Page on my site addresses your concerns.
>
> --
>
> Charles T Johnston - AB7SL
> cha...@ab7sl.com
> AB7SL- Ham Radio Pages
> http://www.ab7sl.com
>
> "Tom Brown" <t...@signalgrp.com> wrote in message
> news:397E38C7...@signalgrp.com...
> > Hey, Charles,
> >
> > Have you considered that one or two posts a month about your minimally
> interesting
> > site would be enough? Anything else is abuse. Give it a rest.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Tom Brown
> > Wake Forest, NC
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >
> > Charles wrote:
> >
> > .............a bunch of redundant stuff snipped................
> >

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jul 2000 02:07:02 GMT
From: frac...@aol.com (Fractenna)
Subject: Visit at www.ab7sl.com

I like Charlie's site. Put succinctly, it has heart.

I use his telnet link frequently and Charlie's site is bookmarked here.

If he hadn't posted it here I wouldn't know about it. If he had only posted
it
once I probably wouldn't have noticed it.

73,
Chip N1IR

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 2000 12:58:45 GMT
From: frac...@aol.com (Fractenna)
Subject: W8JI destroying this NEWZGROUP!!!!

Here is just one page of MANY AND MANY--5 more in the last 2 weeks!-- of
posts
that Charles Thomas Rauch W8JI rags and Rags on the Chipster--and the
Chipster
never responds or provokes!! Not ONE N1IR post on this list!!

W8JI is a cancer on this newzgroup!

Phil
de N1ZKT

07/25/2000 Re: Ham radio guys are too m rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/24/2000 Re: Ham radio guys are too m rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/23/2000 Re: FREE JOVIAN/IO DAM REPRI rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/23/2000 Re: DAM REPRINT rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/23/2000 Re: Chip looses all fear of rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2 DELAY-- rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/21/2000 Re: Suggested Refs for Imped rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/21/2000 Re: Suggested Refs for Imped rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/21/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/21/2000 Re: Fractal element antennae rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/19/2000 Re: Parabolic FM antenna rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/25/2000 Re: TWO REFLECTOR REVISITED rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/24/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2 DELAY-- rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/24/2000 Re: Ham radio guys are too m rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/24/2000 Re: TWO REFLECTOR REVISITED rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/22/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/22/2000 Re: Parabolic FM antenna rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/22/2000 Re: FREE JOVIAN/IO DAM REPRI rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/22/2000 Re: DAM REPRINT rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/22/2000 Re: Phased verticals rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/21/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/21/2000 FRACTAL FLYER K2--Cooking th rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/20/2000 Re: Phased verticals rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/19/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/19/2000 Re: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/19/2000 Re: Parabolic FM antenna rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/18/2000 Re: FRACTAL ANTENNA REFLECTO rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/18/2000 Re: CellPhone RF Hazards (ne rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/18/2000 Re: FRACTAL ANTENNA REFLECTO rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/18/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/18/2000 Re: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/18/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/17/2000 Re: LPFM Application Info... rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/17/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
07/16/2000 Re: LPFM Application Info... rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:22:38 -0500
From: "Broadcast Services" <haw...@peoplescom.net>
Subject: W8JI destroying this NEWZGROUP!!!!

N1IR = No 1 Is Responsible (for this stupid and childish behavior)...

Terry Keith Hammond
President/Chief Engineer

http://www.radiolink.net/1069

Broadcast Services
P.O. Box 155
Mount Vernon, TX. 75457

(903) 588-2532 (Voice & Fax)

The radio business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic
hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and
good men die like dogs.
There's also a negative side."
- Hunter S. Thompson

"Fractenna" <frac...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000725085845...@ng-fc1.aol.com...
> Here is just one page of MANY AND MANY--5 more in the last 2 weeks!-- of
posts
> that Charles Thomas Rauch W8JI rags and Rags on the Chipster--and the
Chipster
> never responds or provokes!! Not ONE N1IR post on this list!!
>
> W8JI is a cancer on this newzgroup!
>
> Phil
> de N1ZKT
>
>
> 07/25/2000 Re: Ham radio guys are too m rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/24/2000 Re: Ham radio guys are too m rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FREE JOVIAN/IO DAM REPRI rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: DAM REPRINT rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: Chip looses all fear of rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2 DELAY-- rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: Suggested Refs for Imped rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: Suggested Refs for Imped rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: Fractal element antennae rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/19/2000 Re: Parabolic FM antenna rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/25/2000 Re: TWO REFLECTOR REVISITED rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/24/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2 DELAY-- rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/24/2000 Re: Ham radio guys are too m rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/24/2000 Re: TWO REFLECTOR REVISITED rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: Parabolic FM antenna rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: FREE JOVIAN/IO DAM REPRI rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: DAM REPRINT rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: Phased verticals rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 FRACTAL FLYER K2--Cooking th rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/20/2000 Re: Phased verticals rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/19/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/19/2000 Re: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/19/2000 Re: Parabolic FM antenna rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: FRACTAL ANTENNA REFLECTO rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: CellPhone RF Hazards (ne rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: FRACTAL ANTENNA REFLECTO rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/17/2000 Re: LPFM Application Info... rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/17/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/16/2000 Re: LPFM Application Info... rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
>
>

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 2000 14:17:10 GMT
From: tylleule...@aol.com (TyllEulenspiegel)
Subject: W8JI destroying this NEWZGROUP!!!!

You want to change something? Try using a spellchecker.

>Subject: W8JI destroying this NEWZGROUP!!!!
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:44:06 -0400
From: RF <k...@westcom.net>
Subject: W8JI destroying this NEWZGROUP!!!!

Fractenna wrote:

> Here is just one page of MANY AND MANY--5 more in the last 2 weeks!-- of
posts
> that Charles Thomas Rauch W8JI rags and Rags on the Chipster--and the
Chipster
> never responds or provokes!! Not ONE N1IR post on this list!!
>
> W8JI is a cancer on this newzgroup!
>
> Phil
> de N1ZKT

You are the cancer on this NG with your stupid posts!

> 07/25/2000 Re: Ham radio guys are too m rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/24/2000 Re: Ham radio guys are too m rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FREE JOVIAN/IO DAM REPRI rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: DAM REPRINT rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: Chip looses all fear of rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2 DELAY-- rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: Suggested Refs for Imped rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: Suggested Refs for Imped rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: Fractal element antennae rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/19/2000 Re: Parabolic FM antenna rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/25/2000 Re: TWO REFLECTOR REVISITED rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/24/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2 DELAY-- rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/24/2000 Re: Ham radio guys are too m rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/24/2000 Re: TWO REFLECTOR REVISITED rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: Parabolic FM antenna rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: FREE JOVIAN/IO DAM REPRI rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: DAM REPRINT rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: Phased verticals rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 FRACTAL FLYER K2--Cooking th rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/20/2000 Re: Phased verticals rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/19/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/19/2000 Re: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/19/2000 Re: Parabolic FM antenna rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: FRACTAL ANTENNA REFLECTO rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: CellPhone RF Hazards (ne rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: FRACTAL ANTENNA REFLECTO rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/17/2000 Re: LPFM Application Info... rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/17/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/16/2000 Re: LPFM Application Info... rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:21:21 -0500
From: "'Doc" <w5...@oio.net>
Subject: W8JI destroying this NEWZGROUP!!!!

Fractenna,
Ooooooh... Poor baby!
'Doc (non Ph.D.)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:18:30 GMT
From: Gilbert Mouget <gilbert...@waika9.com>
Subject: W8JI destroying this NEWZGROUP!!!!

25 Jul 2000 12:58:45 GMT dans l'article
<20000725085845...@ng-fc1.aol.com>
l'honorable Fractenna <frac...@aol.com> escrivit :

NEWZGROUP ? All in CAPS ?

fu2 --> ab...@aol.com

--
Gilbert.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 14:24:15 -0500
From: Bill Aycock <bay...@hiwaay.net>
Subject: W8JI destroying this NEWZGROUP!!!!

The REAL cancer is the many signatured frac group that always stirs the
pot with outrageous claims and controversy,

I have been gone a week, and come back to find the chippster and his
dog, Phil, still at it- but- it appears that he/they have stepped off
one time too many- Chip/Phil/NC/ Nathan, have now tried to get someone
bounced for purely legitimate use of a site, on a legitimate subject,
and will p;probably REALLY face what they threaten others with- a real
civil lawsuit. I hope I can help in the drumming of the Fractanal group
into bankruptcy. Go, man.

Great- This group now thinks the problem is good old Tom?? How droll!

Bill-W4BSG

Fractenna wrote:
>
> Here is just one page of MANY AND MANY--5 more in the last 2 weeks!-- of
posts
> that Charles Thomas Rauch W8JI rags and Rags on the Chipster--and the
Chipster
> never responds or provokes!! Not ONE N1IR post on this list!!
>
> W8JI is a cancer on this newzgroup!
>
> Phil
> de N1ZKT
>
> 07/25/2000 Re: Ham radio guys are too m rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/24/2000 Re: Ham radio guys are too m rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FREE JOVIAN/IO DAM REPRI rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: DAM REPRINT rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: Chip looses all fear of rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2 DELAY-- rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: Suggested Refs for Imped rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: Suggested Refs for Imped rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: Fractal element antennae rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/19/2000 Re: Parabolic FM antenna rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/25/2000 Re: TWO REFLECTOR REVISITED rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/24/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2 DELAY-- rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/24/2000 Re: Ham radio guys are too m rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/24/2000 Re: TWO REFLECTOR REVISITED rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: Parabolic FM antenna rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: FREE JOVIAN/IO DAM REPRI rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: DAM REPRINT rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: Phased verticals rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 FRACTAL FLYER K2--Cooking th rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/20/2000 Re: Phased verticals rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/19/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/19/2000 Re: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/19/2000 Re: Parabolic FM antenna rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: FRACTAL ANTENNA REFLECTO rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: CellPhone RF Hazards (ne rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: FRACTAL ANTENNA REFLECTO rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/17/2000 Re: LPFM Application Info... rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/17/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/16/2000 Re: LPFM Application Info... rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:29:41 -0500
From: Bob Miller <bami...@texas.net>
Subject: W8JI destroying this NEWZGROUP!!!!

Bill Aycock <bay...@hiwaay.net> wrote:

>
>I have been gone a week, and come back to find the chippster and his
>dog, Phil, still at it- but- it appears that he/they have stepped off
>one time too many- Chip/Phil/NC/ Nathan, have now tried to get someone
>bounced for purely legitimate use of a site, on a legitimate subject,
>and will p;probably REALLY face what they threaten others with- a real
>civil lawsuit. I hope I can help in the drumming of the Fractanal group
>into bankruptcy. Go, man.

Sighhhhh, I'm not sure what it is about Fractal-whomever that stirs up
so much shit, what it is about him that attracts so much crap, but his
posts and the resultant threads cause me to pull out my filters and
get rid of him for awhile. The man's a mess.

Bob
k5qwg

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 2000 21:52:52 GMT
From: frac...@aol.com (Fractenna)
Subject: W8JI destroying this NEWZGROUP!!!!

>Sighhhhh, I'm not sure what it is about Fractal-whomever that stirs up
>so much shit, what it is about him that attracts so much crap, but his
>posts and the resultant threads cause me to pull out my filters and
>get rid of him for awhile. The man's a mess.
>
>Bob
>k5qwg
>

Bob,

Why do you feel so free to insult another person? I have feelings just like
you. What right do you have to pass judgement falsely on me--or anyone?

Chip N1IR

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:00:04 -0400
From: "Peter O. Brackett" <ab...@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: W8JI destroying this NEWZGROUP!!!!

Phil, Phil, Phil:

Tsk, tsk...

Why pick on poor ole Tom, he doesn't have a Ph.D., he wasn't born with a
silver spoon, he doesn't have the advantage of an ivy league school
education and connections?

Tom is just a plain ole ham, TV tech, who learned about antennas from the
ground up. He makes em work! He understands them from experience and use,
not from a bunch of Ph.D. generated partial differential equations.

Who should we trust, the equation spouting yankee Ph.D. from Cornell or poor
good ole boy Tom from GA with an antenna farm to die for.

Who would you rather be flying your airplane, the experienced pilot, or the
mathematical physicist proseletizing about partial differential equations?

Who?

Peter K1PO

--
Peter O. Brackett
Morrisville, NC
--
Fractenna <frac...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000725085845...@ng-fc1.aol.com...
> Here is just one page of MANY AND MANY--5 more in the last 2 weeks!-- of
posts
> that Charles Thomas Rauch W8JI rags and Rags on the Chipster--and the
Chipster
> never responds or provokes!! Not ONE N1IR post on this list!!
>
> W8JI is a cancer on this newzgroup!
>
> Phil
> de N1ZKT
>
>
> 07/25/2000 Re: Ham radio guys are too m rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/24/2000 Re: Ham radio guys are too m rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FREE JOVIAN/IO DAM REPRI rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: DAM REPRINT rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: Chip looses all fear of rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2 DELAY-- rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: Suggested Refs for Imped rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: Suggested Refs for Imped rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: Fractal element antennae rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/19/2000 Re: Parabolic FM antenna rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/25/2000 Re: TWO REFLECTOR REVISITED rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/24/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2 DELAY-- rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/24/2000 Re: Ham radio guys are too m rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/24/2000 Re: TWO REFLECTOR REVISITED rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/23/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: Parabolic FM antenna rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: FREE JOVIAN/IO DAM REPRI rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: DAM REPRINT rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/22/2000 Re: Phased verticals rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 Re: FRACTAL FLYER K2--ON THE rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/21/2000 FRACTAL FLYER K2--Cooking th rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/20/2000 Re: Phased verticals rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/19/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/19/2000 Re: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/19/2000 Re: Parabolic FM antenna rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: FRACTAL ANTENNA REFLECTO rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: CellPhone RF Hazards (ne rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: FRACTAL ANTENNA REFLECTO rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: JFK JR. We MISS YOU ! ! rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/18/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/17/2000 Re: LPFM Application Info... rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/17/2000 Re: QST: ULTIMATE FRACTAL AN rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
> 07/16/2000 Re: LPFM Application Info... rec.radio.amateur.ant Tom W8JI
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:48:35 -0500
From: "'Doc" <w5...@oio.net>
Subject: W8JI destroying this NEWZGROUP!!!!

Fractenna wrote:
>
> >Sighhhhh, I'm not sure what it is about Fractal-whomever that stirs up
> >so much shit, what it is about him that attracts so much crap, but his
> >posts and the resultant threads cause me to pull out my filters and
> >get rid of him for awhile. The man's a mess.
> >
> >Bob
> >k5qwg
> >
>
> Bob,
>
> Why do you feel so free to insult another person? I have feelings just
like
> you. What right do you have to pass judgement falsely on me--or anyone?
>
> Chip N1IR

Chip,
You, by your attitude, and behavior have opened your self to
any 'insults' you receive on this newsgroup. Don't try to put
the 'blane' for it on someone else.
As far as 'passing judgement' on someone, when did we loose
that right? Everyone makes judgements about other people evry
day. I do, you do, they do. Stupid argument, Chip. Grow or go.
'Doc
PS - forgot the reminder... (non Ph.D.)

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 2000 22:11:45 GMT
From: radio...@aol.com (RadioFreq0)
Subject: WTB: AT50 Kenwood AutoTuner

I am looing for a Kenwood AT50 auto antena tuner for my TS50.
Jeff

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 2000 12:37:30 GMT
From: frac...@aol.com (Fractenna)
Subject: YES WAY...!! I love this stuff!!!-no way!

>I agree this stuff is way out of hand, but that is exactly what
>happens when one guy decides he wants attention at any cost.
>
>73 Tom

Yeh--YOU!!!

Chip hasn't talked to you in over a half a year.

You ruined this newzgroup.

Are you gonna shut up or should I do the daily affirmation?

Phil
de N1ZKT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:46:33 -0700
From: cw4snider <cw4snide...@mindspring.com.invalid>
Subject: YES WAY...!! I love this stuff!!!-no way!

Watching the interplay between "Fractenna" and "Tom W8JI"
reminds me of the movie "Grumpy Old Men." Whatever the theme is
they fight about it. One can only hope this NG has been ruined
for both of them and the rest of us will be able to pursue some
more mutually interesting themes in their absence.

Rich
KC7VY

-----------------------------------------------------------

Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 2000 21:03:50 GMT
From: frac...@aol.com (Fractenna)
Subject: YES WAY...!! I love this stuff!!!-no way!

>
> Watching the interplay between "Fractenna" and "Tom W8JI"
>reminds me of the movie "Grumpy Old Men." Whatever the theme is
>they fight about it. One can only hope this NG has been ruined
>for both of them and the rest of us will be able to pursue some
>more mutually interesting themes in their absence.
>
>Rich
>KC7VY
>

Rich--

I haven't interacted with Tom Rauch in half a year. Don't expect to start
either.

Just so you have the facts straight.

Best,
Chip N1IR

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 17:20:32 -0400
From: "W4JLE" <w4...@alltel.net>
Subject: YES WAY...!! I love this stuff!!!-no way!

"Fractenna" <frac...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000725083730...@ng-fc1.aol.com...
Tom
>
> Yeh--YOU!!!
>
> Chip hasn't talked to you in over a half a year.
>
> You ruined this newzgroup.
Hmmm! Same spelling as one of the other denizens from AOL that popped up to
attack Tom.
>
> Are you gonna shut up or should I do the daily affirmation?
>

Phil, you ignorant slut! You have to be a HO. Noone could defend the antics
of your CTO unless the pay was really good. I pray that I may never in this
or any other life time get that desperate for money. But then again, I think
that Phil dos not pen the missives sent under his name.

Check with your boss and see how the law suit is progressing. I thought
surly by now that someone as important as he would have Janet Reno deliver
it to me in person.

Now go sit in the corner and play with your blocks and leave the big kids
alone.

> Phil
> de N1ZKT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:16:51 -0500
From: Bill Aycock <bay...@hiwaay.net>
Subject: YES WAY...!! I love this stuff!!!-no way!

Rich- to set the record straight- when you see a personal pronoun, like
"I" or "WE" from the fractenna@aol location, you can be sure that the
person creating and sending the message is
Chip/Nathan/Phil/Cohendog/Jaypole, or the new guy, jim'something'. This
way, one or the other of the aliases can deny that they have done
certain things. In truth- its only one sick old pHd

HIs current attack is on Tom, that's true, but that is only to distract
the readers from his other peccadillos. Tom actually hits at him a
smaller percent of the hits than some others; it's just that his tend to
hurt chip/etc more, because Tom is a pretty successful "Guru", and
Chip/etc is only a "wanabe".

Bill
Fractenna wrote:
>
> >
> > Watching the interplay between "Fractenna" and "Tom W8JI"
> >reminds me of the movie "Grumpy Old Men." Whatever the theme is
> >they fight about it. One can only hope this NG has been ruined
> >for both of them and the rest of us will be able to pursue some
> >more mutually interesting themes in their absence.
> >
> >Rich
> >KC7VY
> >
>
> Rich--
>
> I haven't interacted with Tom Rauch in half a year. Don't expect to start
> either.
>
> Just so you have the facts straight.
>
> Best,
> Chip N1IR

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:14:01 -0400
From: "Peter O. Brackett" <ab...@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: YES WAY...!! I love this stuff!!!-no way!

Tsk, tsk, tsk...

Chip... you have too interacted with Tom... heh, heh.

Sly dog... we can all see through your histrionics and blatant sophmoric
exercises in rhetoric! What?

Why would a gainfully employed Ph.D. graduate of Cornell's astrophsics
program have the time for, or even bother with, a bunch of good ol antenna
boys from South of the Mason-Dixon line?

Why indeed? What gives? Surely you ivy league Ph.D. radio astronomers have
"better things to do"!

All of this Fractenna stupidity on the NG just proves your lack of
perspective and continuing childish behavior.

Ph.D.s are supposed to be "intelligent", but as Marvin Minsky once said, "an
ounce of perspective is worth 50 points of IQ".

Chip!

What the hxxx is your excuse? What?

Peter [not a yankee] K1PO

--
Peter O. Brackett
Morrisville, NC
--
Fractenna <frac...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000725170350...@ng-cb1.aol.com...
> >
> > Watching the interplay between "Fractenna" and "Tom W8JI"
> >reminds me of the movie "Grumpy Old Men." Whatever the theme is
> >they fight about it. One can only hope this NG has been ruined
> >for both of them and the rest of us will be able to pursue some
> >more mutually interesting themes in their absence.
> >
> >Rich
> >KC7VY
> >
>
> Rich--
>
> I haven't interacted with Tom Rauch in half a year. Don't expect to start
> either.
>
> Just so you have the facts straight.
>
> Best,
> Chip N1IR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 03:56:40 GMT
From: "George , W5YR" <w5...@att.net>
Subject: YES WAY...!! I love this stuff!!!-no way!

"Peter O. Brackett" wrote:

> Ph.D.s are supposed to be "intelligent", but as Marvin Minsky once said,
"an
> ounce of perspective is worth 50 points of IQ".
>
I once spent a most entertaining and instructive evening at an open house
that Marvin held in his lab, while I was a grad student at MIT in the
mid-50's. He was a most down-to-earth and congenial host, considering the
nature of this work and that of his graduate students. He was dressed for
the occasion in shorts, a loud sports shirt and some sort of floppy
sandals. Nothing like formality in the upper academic strata!

He was demonstrating his latest accomplishment: a robot that could find a
ball resting on a tabletop and pick it up and drop it in a basket. Marvin
would run it and then grin like crazy at its successful performance.

Quite a guy! Just goes to show that Ph.d's can be real folks. Actually,
though, I think that he holds the Sc.D degree which MIT awards in most of
the science and engineering disciplines.

Thanks for bring back that memory, Peter.

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jul 2000 11:02:02 GMT
From: frac...@aol.com (Fractenna)
Subject: YES WAY...!! I love this stuff!!!-no way!

>I once spent a most entertaining and instructive evening at an open house
>that Marvin held in his lab, while I was a grad student at MIT in the
>mid-50's. He was a most down-to-earth and congenial host, considering the
>nature of this work and that of his graduate students. He was dressed for
>the occasion in shorts, a loud sports shirt and some sort of floppy
>sandals. Nothing like formality in the upper academic strata!
>
>He was demonstrating his latest accomplishment: a robot that could find a
>ball resting on a tabletop and pick it up and drop it in a basket. Marvin
>would run it and then grin like crazy at its successful performance.
>
>Quite a guy! Just goes to show that Ph.d's can be real folks. Actually,
>though, I think that he holds the Sc.D degree which MIT awards in most of
>the science and engineering disciplines.
>
>Thanks for bring back that memory, Peter.
>
>72/73, George W5YR - the Yellow Rose of Texas

Dr. Minsky came to a symposium I chaired in May. He was in his Hawaiin best,
which is what I normally wear in the summers. Unfortunately this was tad bit
more formal and not quite summer, and my assistant asked me to see if we
might
have a problem.

I introduced myself to this stranger and welcomed him. We hadn't met before.
He
wanted to startle me, by saying:"we should pump as much freon into the air
as
we can to stop the next ice age". I thought about this a second, listened to
a
couple of the insightful--and inciteful--comments--and then said "ahh, you
must
be Marvin Minsky".Both he and his wife are wonderful people. I am very glad
he
came!

73,
Chip N1IR

------------------------------

End of Ham-Ant Digest V2000 #202
******************************

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