Single element quad antenna - anyone using one?
Terrence R. Redding, Ph.D.
to hang it like an inverted vee from the yard arm off the side of the
tower and feed it with a 1:1 balun at the apex of the high point.
I am guessing that it will out perform my current inverted vee, have a
strong horizontal component of radiation, and be a fairly quiet antenna
to listen on.
I wonder, has anyone on in the newsgroup put up a single element quad
and compared it to an inverted vee?
All responses appreciated.
Terry
--
-----------
Terrence R. Redding, Ph.D. | over 90 Computer Courses
President/CEO | GED Courses
OnLine Training, Inc. | Insurance Agent Licensing
| Internet Services
http://www.oltraining.com | Web Broadcasting
| Web Site Design
(561) 357-0841 voice | Training Development
(561) 357-0842 FAX | Keynote Speaker
| SDL and Educational Research
Roy Lewallen
provide some insight into how it works. The free EZNEC demo available
from http://eznec.com would easily handle this.
Roy Lewallen, W7EL
(I'm not impartial: EZNEC is a product I sell.)
Yuri Blanarovich
>and compared it to an inverted vee?
>
>All responses appreciated.
>
>Terry
>
I used single element delta loop, (easier to fit on the tower). If you feed it
at the top or the bottom in the middle, you get horizontal polarization (or
with quad top/bottom corner/side feed) and at low heights radiation straight
up. If you feed Delat loop 1/4 wave from the top apex you get vertical
polarization and low angle radiation. By moving the feed point + - from the
ideal position and by adjusting the height and length of the horizontal side
close to ground, you can find 50 ohm point and direct feed with coax. With
vertical polarization, good ground or bunch of radials will greatly enhance the
performance at low angles. It beats inverted Vee in performance.
Yuri, K3BU, PDH (pretty dumb ham)
ps
on this ham newsgroup there is no need for titles, corporate ladder places etc.
We are all just PDH on the first name basis. (Except for one freak who flashes
his "credentials" when people don't agree with his garbage.)
Will
have never heard of them being used with any balanced antenna--loop,
dipole, yagi, quad, etc. My understanding is that radials form an
electrical image plane that compensates for the "missing" half of a
vertical monopole, somewhere for the current to travel on the other half
of the cycle. Why would you need this with a dipole, or a loop? What
purpose would it serve?
de Will KD7BFX
KC1DI
"Terrence R. Redding, Ph.D." <te...@oltraining.com> wrote in message
news:39C109D9...@oltraining.com...
> I am considering building a single element quad antenna. The plane is
> to hang it like an inverted vee from the yard arm off the side of the
> tower and feed it with a 1:1 balun at the apex of the high point.
>
> I am guessing that it will out perform my current inverted vee, have a
> strong horizontal component of radiation, and be a fairly quiet antenna
> to listen on.
>
> and compared it to an inverted vee?
>
> All responses appreciated.
>
> Terry
Hi Terry ,
you should take a look at LB Cebik's fine analysis of Quad Loops at
http://www.cebik.com/radio.html
there you'll find lots of info on Loops and other antennas ,
73 dave kc1di
Terry Redding
loop, which now appears to be a delta, side fed at 1/6 along one side.
Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction.
Terry - W6LMJ
KC1DI wrote:
--
Tom W8JI
wrote:
>I have never heard of using radials with a loop/quad? For that matter, I
>have never heard of them being used with any balanced antenna--loop,
>dipole, yagi, quad, etc. My understanding is that radials form an
>electrical image plane that compensates for the "missing" half of a
>vertical monopole, somewhere for the current to travel on the other half
>of the cycle. Why would you need this with a dipole, or a loop? What
>purpose would it serve?
>
>de Will KD7BFX
Hi Will,
The mental picture that a radial system provides an "image antenna"
is incorrect. It's a common mistake, even QST made that error in a
"Ask the Doctor" column.
The radials can do two things.
1.) The provide a second terminal for the feedline to "push" against.
2.) They "shield" the lossy dirt below the antenna from the strong
fields the antenna produces.
Because of effect number 2, they help the performance of any antenna
close to earth in terms of the wavelength and the antenna size.
73 Tom
CAM
> Excellent reference. I did and will use it to guide the construction of the
> loop, which now appears to be a delta, side fed at 1/6 along one side.
> Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction.
Also take a look at: http://people.delphi.com/cecilmoore/rect80m.htm
on my web page.
--
73, Cecil, W6RCA http://www.mindspring.com/~w6rca
cark...@juno.com
up, apex at about 44 feet. Its fed in the middle of the base / bottom.
No balun...... I use a quarter wave of 75 ohm coax between the antenna
feedpoint and the 50 ohm coax feedline. I can turn this antenna.
It easily outperforms an inverted V with apex also at 44 feet.
I tried feeding it at the corner of the base. It seemed noisier, and I
had this vague feeling that it just didn't perform as well overall as
feeding in the center of the base. Corner feed is also more cumbersome
to rotate. I use this antenna mostly for chasing DX. It is very
definitely directional. If you construct something like this, make
damn sure you make it so you can rotate it.
Lee Carkenord KA0FPJ
In article <39C109D9...@oltraining.com>,
te...@oltraining.com wrote:
> I am considering building a single element quad antenna. The plane is
> to hang it like an inverted vee from the yard arm off the side of the
> tower and feed it with a 1:1 balun at the apex of the high point.
>
> I am guessing that it will out perform my current inverted vee, have a
> strong horizontal component of radiation, and be a fairly quiet
antenna
> to listen on.
>
> I wonder, has anyone on in the newsgroup put up a single element quad
> and compared it to an inverted vee?
>
> All responses appreciated.
>
> Terry
>
> --
> -----------
> Terrence R. Redding, Ph.D. | over 90 Computer Courses
> President/CEO | GED Courses
> OnLine Training, Inc. | Insurance Agent Licensing
> | Internet Services
> http://www.oltraining.com | Web Broadcasting
> | Web Site Design
> (561) 357-0841 voice | Training Development
> (561) 357-0842 FAX | Keynote Speaker
> | SDL and Educational Research
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
R.P.Haviland
Terrence R. Redding, Ph.D. wrote in message
<39C109D9...@oltraining.com>...
>I am considering building a single element quad antenna. The plane is
>to hang it like an inverted vee from the yard arm off the side of the
>tower and feed it with a 1:1 balun at the apex of the high point.
\
a single quad element is a useful wideband antenna. the main lobe "on axis"
gain exceeds that of a dipole over the range of about 0.5 L to about 1.8L,
where L is the noinal or design wavelength, ie, a wire which is one
wavelength long. Of course, to use this, you must hae a low loss
transmission line, open wire, ladder line or teflon coax, plus an antenna
tuner. If you don't mind the pattern change, the upper range goes to several
times the nominal; L.
Ive used a 20 Meter loop on the bands 12-30 meters many times.
w4mb
Peter O. Brackett
The NG is goin straight to hxxx
Peter K1PO
--
Peter O. Brackett
Morrisville, NC
--
Terrence R. Redding, Ph.D. <te...@oltraining.com> wrote in message
news:39C109D9...@oltraining.com...
> I am considering building a single element quad antenna. The plane is
> to hang it like an inverted vee from the yard arm off the side of the
> tower and feed it with a 1:1 balun at the apex of the high point.
>
sideband
his news client NOT to both post and email on replies.
Piled Higher and Deeper.
-SSB
On or about Sun, 17 Sep 2000 16:39:49 -0400, "Peter O. Brackett"
<ab...@ix.netcom.com>, using the forum rec.radio.amateur.antenna did
say:
:Oh, oh... another Ph.D.
David Robbins
worse than the inverted v(though only by a little bit). this combined with
having double the wire in the air and the associated problems with ground and
other obstruction clearance generally makes it better to run a plain inverted v
over a loop. after modeling several loops and v's for installation here it is
fairly obvious that this is because almost half the loop's radiation comes from
the very bottom, closest to the ground and anything else that is in the way.
> Terrence R. Redding, Ph.D. <te...@oltraining.com> wrote in message
> news:39C109D9...@oltraining.com...
> > I am considering building a single element quad antenna. The plane is
> > to hang it like an inverted vee from the yard arm off the side of the
> > tower and feed it with a 1:1 balun at the apex of the high point.
> >
> > I am guessing that it will out perform my current inverted vee, have a
> > strong horizontal component of radiation, and be a fairly quiet antenna
> > to listen on.
> >
> > I wonder, has anyone on in the newsgroup put up a single element quad
> > and compared it to an inverted vee?
> >
> > All responses appreciated.
--
David Robbins K1TTT
e-mail: mailto://k1...@berkshire.net
web: http://www.berkshire.net/~robbins/k1ttt.html or http://www.k1ttt.net
AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://k1ttt.net
Terry Redding
very impressive. Worth a re-visit and taking a bit of time to see how you built
the pages. I am typing this response while loading the web cam page. I also have
a web cam at http:/www.olt.net/W6LMJ.
Back to the quad/loop. I have never used one - so bow to the experience of anyone
who has. But I have observed to in operation. The first was used by Mike
Stalter, Pebble Beach, California. An elmer of mine who took the time to
introduce me to SSB operation on ten meters ground wave while I was stationed at
Fort Ord, California in the mid 70`s.
Mike had a daily schedule with a ham in Japan on 15 meters CW. His modest choice
of antennas was either a mono band 3 element yagi on 15 meters or a 15 meter loop
(he called it a single element quad because it started out as the driven element
of a quad - but he never added the reflector). He commented with some surprise
that often the loop out performed the 3 element yagi, especially when the band
appeared noisy.
My other experience - third hand again - was with an antenna used by WB2UJL -
Ernie Miles, one summer. Ernie planned to operate from the Houston, Texas area
for a three month period a few years ago and was concerned about having a
consistently good signal for a 20 meter net he and I participate in each Sunday.
Ernie's normal antenna is a 2 element GEM quad.
Ernie likes to experiment and is fairly deliberate about his projects. So, during
the period leading up to his trip he bought a 30 foot pushup pole, balun, and
built and refined his loop while still at home until it was a consistently good
performer. His finally design for his 20 meter loop is my starting point for a
loop on 40 meters. His final design was a loop, fed at the top, that hung down in
a diamond configuration. As simple to erect as an inverted vee, it appeared to
work well.
He operated weekly from his daughters QTH in Texas. She lived in a neighborhood
with deed restrictions and so he put the antenna up for the nets, and took it down
after each net. He operated with 100 watts using a TS 870. On our net was Fred
Naylor, VK3AQN, who routinely checked in long path. Ernie had the distinction of
being one of the few stations on the net able to work Fred consistently.
Much of what I have read here on the list indicates that both Mike Stalter and
Ernie Miles enjoyed more success with their loops then they should have.
I am fortunate to have a tower with an inverted vee for 40 meters. Armed with the
information gathered here I plan to put up a series of loops and compare them to
the inverted vee. Hopefully I will learn something along the way, and end up with
a better 40 meter signal to the mid west and west coast then I currently am able
to achieve with the inverted vee.
Hmm, the web cam images seems to be black. Must be near real time. This is being
typed at 1:36 a.m., from West Palm Beach, Florida. I will try it again in day
light. Now I am curious to see if the web cam shot is from one of the towers in
your images.
Thanks again for taking the time to comment on my loop project.
Terry - W6LMJ
Larry Gauthier
I have (or perhaps had) been considering the same single-loop design. I am
about to erect a 60 foot tower, and thought I would install a pair of loops,
90 degrees out from each other, and feed them from the bottom. I'd then
planned to design a switch box to select any two legs, hoping that I could
produce a little gain and directivity on 30 meters.
From your response, I will be just as far ahead building two inverted vee's,
and switch selecting between legs of them.
-larry
K8UT
and then select
"David Robbins" <k1...@berkshire.net> wrote in message
news:39C52593...@berkshire.net...
