Ground Rod Salts
Chris Scott
Many companies are selling more effective ground rods that consist of
copper plumbing pipe filled with "mystery" salts. There are small
holes distributed
along the length, allowing very gradual leaching of these salts into the
surrounding soil,
enhancing soil conductivity, thus enlarging the effective diameter of
the buried ground rod.
I am an electronics type with limited chem ability. Does anyone in this
group know, or care to speculate on exactly what "salts" are used in
this
application, and where they may be purchased?
Thank you,
Chris Scott WB9NEQ
Western Kentucky University
chris...@wku.edu
Roy Lewallen
Copper sulfate used to be recommended for this use, but is now frowned
upon or prohibited, for environmental reasons. I believe that any other
salts which would enhance conductivity would also be environmentally
unfriendly. If you're interested in a good RF ground, you can do much
better with radial wires on or near the surface than with a ground rod,
with or without the salts.
Roy Lewallen, W7EL
KQ6UV
Chris Scott wrote in message <35774E5A...@wku.edu>...
>Many companies are selling more effective ground rods that consist of
>copper plumbing pipe filled with "mystery" salts. There are small
>holes distributed
>along the length, allowing very gradual leaching of these salts into the
>surrounding soil,
>enhancing soil conductivity, thus enlarging the effective diameter of
>the buried ground rod.
Just one problem. It's not U.L. listed, or tested for use as a grounding
electrode. This could be a snag down the road.
>I am an electronics type with limited chem ability. Does anyone in this
>
>group know, or care to speculate on exactly what "salts" are used in
>this
>application, and where they may be purchased?
>
>Thank you,
>
>Chris Scott WB9NEQ
>Western Kentucky University
>chris...@wku.edu
I don't remember the chemicals commonly used, but know of a product for
use in proper ground installations. It's called GEM (ground enhancement
material) and can be used with ground rods, and cables. It can be ordered by
electrical distributors that sell Erico Caddy, or Cadweld products.
Erico Customer Service: (800)248-9353
Jim Smith
KQ6UV
Reg Edwards
Yes, "salting" the soil is effective.
The most economical way of burying copper is to bury it in the form of
longish wires (radials?). This applies at both DC, 60 Hz and at RF. Rods
and especially plates are uneconomical.
But the effectiveness of a rod or plate can be improved by keeping the soil
damp and sprinkling the surface every six months with table salt - sodium
chloride - the same stuff as is used for cullinary purposes. Sprinkle an
area with a radius equal to depth of the electrode. Rain will ease it
gently down into the soil. I don't think the local environmental control
officer would have any objections. But for how long a copper or aluminium
electrode would survive in this hostile environment I leave someone else to
adjudicate.
Sea water, a solution of sodium chloride, allows a beautiful, low
resistance, quiet, ground connection using only a small submerged
electrode. A 12" square plate, submerged to a depth more than about 3 feet
in the sea, has a resistance to the body of the earth of about 0.2 ohms. In
un-polluted fresh water, with fish and weeds, the electrode may have a
resistance 5000 times greater.
Stations adjacent to oceanic beaches, using low angle vertical radiators,
which need a good ground, do very well in 160 and 80 meter band DX
contests.
Reg G4FGQ
http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp
Jim Berry K7SLI
Hi Chris,
I read someplace that common epson, ebson or however it is spelled (4am in
the morning and brain is deader then usual) is every bit as conductive as
any copper sulfate or table salt and is completly "enviromentally safe".
73 Jim K7SLI
Chris Scott <sco...@wku.edu> wrote in article
<35774E5A...@wku.edu>...
> Many companies are selling more effective ground rods that consist of
> copper plumbing pipe filled with "mystery" salts. There are small
> holes distributed
> along the length, allowing very gradual leaching of these salts into the
> surrounding soil,
> enhancing soil conductivity, thus enlarging the effective diameter of
> the buried ground rod.
>
Gary Coffman
On Fri, 05 Jun 1998 21:12:16 GMT, Roy Lewallen <w7...@teleport.com> wrote:
>Copper sulfate used to be recommended for this use, but is now frowned
>upon or prohibited, for environmental reasons. I believe that any other
>salts which would enhance conductivity would also be environmentally
>unfriendly. If you're interested in a good RF ground, you can do much
>better with radial wires on or near the surface than with a ground rod,
>with or without the salts.
Roy is exactly right. The one situation where ionic salts are used to good
advantage is in the Ufer ground. There, the salts are trapped in the concrete
and enhance its conductivity with respect to ordinary soil. For the purpose
of RF grounding (and grounding against lightning surge, which is RF), the
important property is the capacitance to Earth provided by the ground terminal.
In that case, the Ufer ground, or buried radials, is vastly superior to any
driven ground rod (what the NEC calls a made electrode), salted or not.
Gary
Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it |mail to ke...@bellsouth.net
534 Shannon Way | We break it |
Lawrenceville, GA | Guaranteed |
W6RCecilA
Gary Coffman wrote:
> (what the NEC calls a made electrode)
Is there a grounding rod called an "anode" or is my memory
fuzzy? Seems I remember "anodes" are installed to ground
buildings.
--
73, Cecil, W6RCA http://people.delphi.com/CecilMoore
Gray Frierson Haertig
Jim Berry K7SLI wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> I read someplace that common epson, ebson or however it is spelled (4am in
> the morning and brain is deader then usual) is every bit as conductive as
> any copper sulfate or table salt and is completly "enviromentally safe".
>
> 73 Jim K7SLI
That would be Epsom's Salts (Magnesium Sulfate). The electrolyte that
gave us the phrase "Whooeeee, that went through me like a dose of the
salts."
As to the electrolytically enhanced ground electrodes. I am not sure of
the actual salt combination used, but a key element is to have a salt
that is hygroscopic. They all work by allowing the salt mixture to
slowly dissolve and leach into the soil from moisture extracted from the
air.
As for UL approval. These electrodes are not generally touted for
electrical system grounds but as lightning protection grounds for
towers. UL approval would not likely be necessary. Certainly easier
and more economic to install than a radial system, but as pointed out
elsewhere, not suitable for an RF ground.
Gray
--
Telecommunications Engineering
Gray Frierson Haertig & Assoc.
820 North River Street, Suite 100
Portland, Oregon 97227
503-282-2989
503-282-3181 FAX
g...@haertig.com
Greg Strickland
I think the real question is....do you want a ground connection OR a
ground plane?
If you need a ground connection...why? Lightning protection?
There are many ways of providing a low impedance path for lightning
currents.
Unless you are on a rock, in Kentucky you should be able to get an adequate
protection ground with several ground rods or a basic ground radial system.
Personally, I would bond the antenna ground to the electric power service
neutral/ground, and any good solid cold water pipe. The idea is to get
plenty of current sinking capacity, and bond everything together so they
"rise" above ground at about the same rate.
A ground plane is not needed unless you are vertically polarized, or playing
fancy games with reflections from H-Pol yagis.
If your question was really about chemistry....sorry for the distraction.
David Harris
My Dad always took a pee on the ground around the Earth Rod. He always
claimed that the gradual accumulation of salts helped with conductivity.
David
Keith Huggett
In article <357A42...@haertig.com>, Gray Frierson Haertig
<g...@haertig.com> writes
>That would be Epsom's Salts (Magnesium Sulfate). The electrolyte that
>gave us the phrase "Whooeeee, that went through me like a dose of the
>salts."
>
That's right. From Epsom in Surrey, England where the ORIGINAL Derby
Horse Race (pronounced "Darby") is run.
==============
SERIOUS BIT OF MESSAGE
However you might like to know that a few years ago the St. Helier
Hospital in nearby Sutton had to be entirely underpinned as the Epsom
Salts in an undergound stream (see sig.) had eaten the foundations! Not
sure if it ate the concrete or the reinforcing but it did a good job of
it. I know, I was in there at the time.
=============
Actually I have this nagging feeling in the back of my mind that the
original springs were found in Ewell about two miles from Epsom but
Ewell was not fashionable at the time so they dug around for similaar in
a more "acceptable" neighbourhood.
Just how much useless information can the human brain store? :-)
-- Keith Huggett G8IZZ.
Westbury, Wilts. BA13 4EF.
IO81VG
BTW. I don't know if you use the word "piddle" over there for a certain normal
bilogical function but it is the old English word for a stream. Hence place
names like Piddle Trenthide, Wyre Piddle etc. Causes great hilarity with
overseas visitors! Corruptions gave us "puddle" and "paddle" all similar words
to do with water. Even more boring than the bit about Ewell!
Gray Frierson Haertig
Hey Keith,
I find a bit of etymology much more interesting and frequently more
pertinent than many of the posts in this NG.
I always have believed in a bit of flexibility in pronunciation versus
spellig, but you guys' take on Featheringstonehaugh is beyond the pale.
TTFN,
T E I X E I R A
As far as ground rods go.......Most hardware stores like OSH sell 8'
copper jacketed ground rods..... They work great. As far as
salt....just use rock salt like you use in a watersoftner or ice cream
maker.
Here is what I did. I dug a hole about 10" deep. I then hammered the
ground rod down the center of the hole leaving about 8" or 9" up from
the dirt. I then slipped a 3"X10" length of PCV pipe over the end of
the rod and put dit around it. (not inside the PVC) Last I filled the
PVC tube with rock salt and then water. Then I add a gallon or two of
water every week to keep it damp. *** Keep your ground rod as close to
the transmitter as possible.
Don, W6IQ
W6RCecilA
T E I X E I R A wrote:
> I then slipped a 3"X10" length of PCV pipe over the end of
> the rod and put dit around it. (not inside the PVC)
Don, Wouldn't a metal pipe be better than PVC?
James E. Bromley
Cecil, W6RCA, posted on r.r.a.a.:
Subject: Re: Ground Rod Salts
Date: Saturday, June 06, 1998 9:46 AM
>Is there a grounding rod called an "anode" or is my memory
>fuzzy? Seems I remember "anodes" are installed to ground
>buildings.
>--
You're thinking about the "sacrificial anodes" that the
pipeline companies plant all along their routes. These things
are generally big blocks of graphite driven by a low-voltage,
high-current power supply with the other end connected
to the pipeline. The current flow is such that the anode is
"plated" (i.e.: sacrificed) into the ground while the ground is
"plated" out on the pipe. Left to itself, the natural alkalinity
of the soil would react with the steel of the pipe to form an
electrolytic cell (or "battery" if you will) that would perform
the opposite action, plate the pipe out into the ground. This
can have disastrous results in the case of gas pipelines.
James E. Bromley, K7JEB
Glendale, Arizona 85303
E-Mail: w5gyj....@primenet.com
Iden
T E I X E I R A wrote:
>
Copper sulfate is less corrosive.
Iden, K6JHQ
Reg Edwards
Has anyone ever made any measurements (DC or RF ohms) to investigate the
effectiveness of "salting" the ground in the vicinity of a ground rod,
plate or spike. Otherwise we are all on precarious ground.
--
Reg G4FGQ
Gary Coffman
On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:56:50 -0700, Iden <id...@ncwebsurfer.com> wrote:
>Copper sulfate is less corrosive.
But it is more toxic. The EPA isn't amused.
Gary Coffman
Yes, these measurements have been made. The results are somewhat
surprising. Adding salts to the earth around a ground rod increases
conductivity for *small DC currents*, but makes virtually no difference
for RF currents or large current surges such as lightning.
Soil can be modeled as a number of capacitor plates suspended in
a dielectric. The capacitor plates are the individual soil grains. The
dielectric is any liquid surrounding the grains. Adding salts raises
the conductivity of the dielectric, but conduction in the dielectric
occurs due to ionic mobility, and that is still relatively low. RF
conducts through soil mainly by capacitive coupling from soil grain
to soil grain, and large surges conduct by arcing from soil grain to
soil grain.
The only benefit of salting is in improving the contact of the rod
to the immediately adjacent soil grains. That can be a real benefit
by effectively increasing the rod's contact area, but it has a very
limited effect on lowering soil impedance to large surge currents.
That's still primarily a function of the arc over barrier potential,
and that's set more by soil type than dielectric conductivity.
Reg Edwards
So presumably the salt has little effect unless there's a lot of water to
accompany it. Should be OK in the vicinity of alligator swamps.
--
Reg G4FGQ
http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp
W6RCecilA
Reg Edwards wrote:
>
> So presumably the salt has little effect unless there's a lot of water to
> accompany it. Should be OK in the vicinity of alligator swamps.
Nope Reg, you don't want to make the alligators angry.
Reg Edwards
Ah well, we live and learn!
Till now I always believed a pinch of salt on an aligator's tail was enough
to send him scurrying back to his hideaway. The tactic must apply only to
rattlers. (Where's my Kalashnikov?)
Is the proportion of radio amateurs in Florida having only one leg any
greater than in the remainder of the population of the USA. Come to think
of it, I've never worked into Florida - not even using my off-centre fed
inverted-L, fed via 130-ohm Radio-Shack 18-gauge polarised speaker wire,
the whole being resonant on 2.6 MHz. Incidentally the choke-balun is wound
on a 1/2-diameter iron bolt, 12 threads per inch. Otherwise its all exactly
according to Sevick. The principal ground radial is the incoming domestic
water supply lead pipe - 12 miles long to the nearest reservoir with
numerous branches. Do you think lead in the water supply has adversely
affected my brain?
W6RCecilA
Reg Edwards wrote:
> Is the proportion of radio amateurs in Florida having only one leg any
Well, for what it's worth, I've never heard a Florida ham send QLF.
Bart Senior
When I was in the Air Force we used some other sort of salt. I can't
remember what it was called but it worked great even in rock soil. Anyone
know what that salt is called?
Bart
KC5VUO