Re: New Antenna Technology Claimed

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 22:49:49 -0600, Six Underground
<us...@host.invalid> wrote:

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4efE_gO9lFo
The speaker needs classes in public speaking and basic antenna theory.

<http://www.chamtechops.com>
Spray on some nano capacitors, and you get instant gain, apparently in
all directions? No way.

Since when do police radio antennas get hot?

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 00:42:11 -0600, Six Underground
<us...@host.invalid> wrote:

>On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 22:13:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>

>wrote:
>
>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4efE_gO9lFo
>>The speaker needs classes in public speaking and basic antenna theory.
>

>He's not exactly a charmer, is he?

Failure to maintain eye contact with the audience indicates several
possible problems. In this case, my guess is that he's totally unsure
of himself. Test antennas in a Faraday cage? The audio track is
probably good enough to run a voice stress analysis lie detector, but
it's late, and I'm tired.

>><http://www.chamtechops.com>
>>Spray on some nano capacitors, and you get instant gain, apparently in
>>all directions? No way.
>

>My thoughts exactly.

>>Since when do police radio antennas get hot?
>

>I've never seen one do that, and I worked in the land-mobile and
>broadcast industries for a long time.

I can guess where he got that idea.

* Kulrod technology: only by larsen.
All Larsen antenna whips feature the exclusive Kulrod plating
system to assure superior performance. This consists of 3 plated
(Copper, Nickel, Chrome) which allows an increment of its
radiation capacity and reception signal and avoiding overheat.

The problem is that the skin depth at VHF/UHF frequencies, the skin
depth is less than 1 micron, which is much less than the probably
20-50 micron plating thickness of the various layers. However, if the
skin depth did go through multiple layers, the dissimilar metals might
cause PIM (passive intermod):
<http://www.rfcafe.com/references/calculators/skin-depth-calculator.htm>
Never mind that all decorative chrome plating is over layers copper
and nickel, in order to get decent adhesion. See "Decorative Chrome
Plating" section:
<http://www.finishing.com/faqs/chrome.html>

>I actually got the YouTube link from Steve Gibson's (GRC.com) news
>server, where they're all very excited about this "new technology."
>They're so thrilled about it that they're already counting the money
>they'll save when this gets released to the general public and they
>can finally capture all the free energy from space.

Since the CEO says that technology was "accidentally" discovered, I
can also suspect that aliens were involved in the technology transfer.

>I certainly don't claim to have seen it all, but I've been around for
>quite a while,, and thought I'd seen most of it by now.

I randomly collect articles on electronic hoaxes and bogus patents.
Unlike this one, some are really clever and well done. Thanks for the
entertainment.

>Regards.
>6U

[Irv Finkleman]

To Quote PT Barnum, "........." -- you know the rest!

Irv VE6BP

"Six Underground" <us...@host.invalid> wrote in message
news:mg5hj7psrcpfuk9lu...@4ax.com...
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4efE_gO9lFo
>
>
>

[Channel Jumper]

Last year, I bought a Larsen 2/70 antenna and mag mount base.
I couldn't figure out why it didn't radiate all that well.
Got home and looked at the antenna.
Said to myself - you dummy - you didn't remove the paint from the base
portion of the whip.

Even with the screw tightened to the point of where it made a dimple in
the whip - it still was not making good contact.

I put it on the wire wheel, removed the paint, put some Nolox down in
the hole and tightened with the allen wrench and have had no problems
since.

To date - my best hill-topping was about 100 miles on 2 meters and 440
in the hills of Pennsylvania.

Even at that - the mag mount is a poor conductor - because there is a
rubber pad over the magnet and you cannot get a good bond to the vehicle
body unless you remove the paint under the magnet and the rubber
insulator.

I Went to a Ham Fest last year and saw a couple of the antenna parts for
a couple of dollars each and like a dummy didn't buy them.

If you have the magnet mount and the loading coil - you can use any old
antenna you want. Just cut it to length and stick it in the hole.

As far as getting rid of what I have, because something better came
along.
Antenna technology peaked about 1971 when the CB radio was the fad.
In those days if you wanted a decent antenna for a decent price - there
was enough manufacturers out there to take your money that you didn't
have to look or travel far to find them.

When the accountants took over the antenna business, it wasn't long
before the quality went away and the big beam antenna's were replaced by
cheaper - less efficient models that were more profit friendly to the
manufacturer.

You can only sell a $100 antenna for so long before you either have to
ask your employee's to take a cut in pay, or you ask the engineers to
find a way to make it cheaper.

Mobile antenna's are no different.




--
Channel Jumper

[J.B. Wood]

On 02/12/2012 11:49 PM, Six Underground wrote:
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4efE_gO9lFo
>
>
Hello, all, and I watched the entire video from Chamtech. There have
been many firms over the years attempting to develop conformal antennas
(primarily for military/shipboard use) that were supposed to either
equal or exceed the performance of conventional antenna designs in the
operating frequency range. This is the first "spray-on" one I've seen.
As for the Chamtech presentation:

1. Since when do antennas on police cars get hot to the touch?

2. It seems clear the presenter is a marketer with scant knowledge of
antennas/electromagnetic theory. IOW ignorant of the underlying basic
physics (which can also apply to Hams, sadly). If Chamtech's technology
actually works, it won't be due to the mechanism(s) claimed.

3. Dubious operating range performance claims, especially in a
submerged environment (I sure would've like to have been present for the
underwater tests.)

4. All this reminds me of the crossed-field antenna (CFA) saga.
Sincerely, and 73s from N4GGO,
--
J. B. Wood e-mail: arl_1...@hotmail.com

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 07:32:08 -0500, "J.B. Wood"
<john...@nrl.navy.mil> wrote:

>3. Dubious operating range performance claims, especially in a
>submerged environment (I sure would've like to have been present for the
>underwater tests.)

My guess(tm), is that the coax cable between the radios and the
submerged antenna was doing the radiating. At 50MHz, the leakage from
3 watts of tx power should be sufficient to get 3 miles.

Losing touch with the other end of the link is predicatable. At 6ft
above the water, the visual horizon is 3 miles away.

The picture of the submerged antenna seems to be a biquad antenna,
which looks much too small for 50MHz. Each loop would need to be 1
wavelength long or about 30ft circumference. See 8:25 minutes into
the video.

[Irv Finkleman]

I think someone sold the antenna-ignorant presenter a bill of
goods which he in turn thinks will sell like hotcakes.

Irv VE6BP

"J.B. Wood" <john...@nrl.navy.mil> wrote in message
news:jhdk88$dg6$1...@ra.nrl.navy.mil...

[Jim Lux]

On Feb 13, 12:06 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:

> Since the CEO says that technology was "accidentally" discovered, I
> can also suspect that aliens were involved in the technology transfer.

Perhaps he means non-US citizens? one man's alien is another man's
green card or visa holder.

[Jim Lux]

On Feb 14, 4:32 am, "J.B. Wood" <john.w...@nrl.navy.mil> wrote:

> 4.  All this reminds me of the crossed-field antenna (CFA) saga.

> --
> J. B. Wood                  e-mail: arl_123...@hotmail.com

indeed..

Or, maybe, since it's a misunderstood but actually functional
technology, the one where a stream of salty water passes through a
suitable coupling network. Lame, but works. Better than the CFA.

[Jeff Liebermann]

The alien visitation theory is mine. My logic is that since the
technology was "accidentally" discovered, and since the CEO is
obviously lacking in scientific expertise, there can be only one
possible remaining source for the technology. It came from outer
space, handed down by an advanced civilization. When obvious sources
of the information do not lead to a generally acceptable consensus,
the traditional default explanation is advanced alien knowledge
delivered by flying saucer.

I don't think it's the green card aliens that are processing nano
capacitors into antennas. Their level of expertise and technology is
usually lacking. The H1B visa visitors might be a better possibility.
However, most of those are smart enough to recognize a profitable
technology and will usually prefer to take it back home with them.



--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com je...@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

[Sal]

"Jim Higgins" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:dvpnj7phendaglsnn...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 00:06:12 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>

> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 00:42:11 -0600, Six Underground
>><us...@host.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 22:13:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4efE_gO9lFo
>>>>The speaker needs classes in public speaking and basic antenna theory.
>>>
>>>He's not exactly a charmer, is he?
>>
>>Failure to maintain eye contact with the audience indicates several
>>possible problems. In this case, my guess is that he's totally unsure
>>of himself. Test antennas in a Faraday cage? The audio track is
>>probably good enough to run a voice stress analysis lie detector, but
>>it's late, and I'm tired.
>

> I'm not sure "Hello, my name is Anthony Sutera" is enough of a sample
> for a baseline though.
>
> For a chuckle, Google their street address, 8681 South 700 West.

Got it.

It's apparent they know a few things about spraying.

"Sal"

[J.B. Wood]

On 02/14/2012 05:01 PM, Irv Finkleman wrote:
> I think someone sold the antenna-ignorant presenter a bill of
> goods which he in turn thinks will sell like hotcakes.
>
> Irv VE6BP

Especially if it was pitched by Billy Mays (R.I.P) ;-) Sincerely,

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 16 Feb 2012 08:47:55 -0500, "J.B. Wood"
<john...@nrl.navy.mil> wrote:

>Especially if it was pitched by Billy Mays (R.I.P) ;-) Sincerely,

I got my start in antennas and RF reading Popular Electronics with
advertisements for "Turn your house wiring into a gaint 1000ft TV
antenna". Inside the magic box was a "capacitator". Plus the AC-DC
TV chassis into the wall the wrong way, and sparks would fly. After
getting shocked a few times, I figured that anything that powerful was
worth learning about.
<http://books.google.com/books?id=4NsDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33>

Roll forward half a century, and I'm still reading (and writing) about
electronic hoaxes (and science fiction business plans). The shocks
are largely gone with the demise of tubes and the introduction of low
voltage transistor devices. I don't miss getting zapped that much.

Additional entertainment. Turn your your house wiring into a
2.4Gbit/sec internet connection. Different names, different
technology, more dollars, but everything else the same:
<http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.11/media_pr.html>

Drivel: I had to build a peak audio detector and AGC to reduce the
average TV audio level specifically to keep the Billy Mays commercials
from shaking the house. It sorta worked, but with some side effects.
After he died, I was able to safely remove it.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 22:49:49 -0600, Six Underground
<us...@host.invalid> wrote:

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4efE_gO9lFo

Don't assume that all nanotech antennas are science fiction. See:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nantenna>
<http://www.inl.gov/pdfs/nantenna.pdf>
These may possibly be the future for solar energy conversion.
The main advantage is the high 85% efficiency, which unfortunately
has yet to be demonstrated. The maximum theoretical efficiency
for a multi-junction type solar cell is about 38%. For a common
single junction, it's about 20% max. The nantenna is basically a
dipole antenna, resonant at light wave frequencies, with a built
in rectifier. Small is beautiful.

However, nanotech solar power doesn't have anything to do with nano
capacitor antenna spray.

[JIMMIE]

On Feb 13, 1:13 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 22:49:49 -0600, Six Underground
>

> <u...@host.invalid> wrote:
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4efE_gO9lFo
>
> The speaker needs classes in public speaking and basic antenna theory.
>
> <http://www.chamtechops.com>
> Spray on some nano capacitors, and you get instant gain, apparently in
> all directions?  No way.
>
> Since when do police radio antennas get hot?
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann     je...@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com

> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Some of these magic antenna claims are at least a little entertaining.
This one was just boring.

Jimmie

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 10:09:49 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
<JIMMIE...@YAHOO.COM> wrote:

>On Feb 13, 1:13 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:

>> <http://www.chamtechops.com>
(...)

>Some of these magic antenna claims are at least a little entertaining.
>This one was just boring.
>Jimmie

Apparently, you must have attended the recent CES show, where
technology is sold by highly entertaining, minimally boring,
professional models.
<http://www.lvmodels.com>
<http://www.emmegirls.com/Trade_Show_Models.html>
<http://eventmodelgroup.com>
Compared to those, magic antennas are not even a close second.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 05 Oct 2018 00:51:54 -0500, Six Underground

<us...@host.invalid> wrote:

>On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 22:13:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>

>>Spray on some nano capacitors, and you get instant gain, apparently in
>>all directions? No way.

>Yet more spray-on antennas unveiled. See the following link to the
>current ARRL Letter:
>
>http://www.arrl.org/arrlletter/?issue=2018-10-04
>
>Best regards,
>
>6U

Here's the original article:
<https://drexel.edu/now/archive/2018/September/MXene-spray-antennas/>
The verbage suggests that it "might" be something useful. However, I
don't see any research reports, testing, demonstrations, models,
simulations, or numbers. This is also very different from the
original article which you've trimmed from your posting. This is all
about improving spray on conductive paint to form conventional
antennas, not using nano capacitors to form a matching network that
magically produces gain.