Real life birth certificate puzzle
Mike Williams
Birth Certificate registry for Jan-Feb-Mar 1962:
http://econym.googlepages.com/hardikers.jpg
The two entries that I'm interested in are:
HARDIKER, Karen A.
Mother's maiden surname: GORTON
District: Manchester
Vol: 10e
Page: 822
HARDIKER, Michael L.
Mother's maiden surname: GORTON
District: Southport
Vol: 10f
Page: 1052
Further investigation shows that they are both children of Leslie V.
HARDIKER and Margaret R. HARDIKER (nee GORTON).
So how could sister and brother have been born in different towns 40
miles apart?
--
Mike Williams
Gentleman of Leisure
Richard Heathfield
The most likely explanation is clerical error. Assuming that isn't the
case, presumably we're dealing with twins. What if they live in Southport,
but Dad works in Manchester? Mum registered Karen, but forgot to do
Michael (or perhaps couldn't find some vital bit of paper or other), so
Dad registered Michael during his lunch break a day or two later.
Other possibilities include an emergency helicopter transfer mid-delivery
because of some sudden medical complication, or of course an elderly
gentleman in a police telephone box...
--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Mike Williams
Wrong on all counts.
Mark Brader
> > While researching my family tree, I came across two odd entries in the
> > Birth Certificate registry for Jan-Feb-Mar 1962:
> >
> > http://econym.googlepages.com/hardikers.jpg
> >
> > The two entries that I'm interested in are:
> >
> > HARDIKER, Karen A.
> > Mother's maiden surname: GORTON
> > District: Manchester
> > Vol: 10e
> > Page: 822
> >
> > HARDIKER, Michael L.
> > Mother's maiden surname: GORTON
> > District: Southport
> > Vol: 10f
> > Page: 1052
> >
> > Further investigation shows that they are both children of Leslie V.
> > HARDIKER and Margaret R. HARDIKER (nee GORTON).
> >
> > So how could sister and brother have been born in different towns 40
> > miles apart?
The simplest solution is that there were two different men named Leslie
V. Hardiker who married two different women named Margaret R. Gorton,
who then both gave birth within the relevant time period. However, this
seems a trifle unlikely.
Richard Heathfield:
> The most likely explanation is clerical error. Assuming that isn't the
> case, presumably we're dealing with twins. What if they live in Southport,
> but Dad works in Manchester? Mum registered Karen, but forgot to do
> Michael (or perhaps couldn't find some vital bit of paper or other), so
> Dad registered Michael during his lunch break a day or two later.
>
> Other possibilities include an emergency helicopter transfer mid-delivery
> because of some sudden medical complication,
It is not completely unknown for twins to be born days or weeks apart
(e.g. <http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/22/1047749991908.html>),
and the mother might have changed locations in the interim.
Or, and this is my real guess, one or both children were adopted and
this involved creating a false record of their birth. I would not
have thought this possible, if not for the fact that I know someone
who adopted a child and told me that exactly this was done -- a British
birth certificate was issued for a child actually born in Romania.
> or of course an elderly gentleman in a police telephone box...
Elderly! What year did *you* just arrive from?
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "What Europe needs is a fresh, unused mind."
m...@vex.net | -- Foreign Correspondent
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Richard Heathfield
<snip>
>> or of course an elderly gentleman in a police telephone box...
>
> Elderly! What year did *you* just arrive from?
I was thinking of this chap: http://tinyurl.com/2ubtzv
Bartc
"Mike Williams" <nos...@econym.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Y$cT7CAeP...@econym.demon.co.uk...
The date of registration (that would determine the volume and page of the
entry) is not necessarily that of the birth. While the requirement is within
14 days or whatever now, perhaps one was a (very) late entry, for whatever
reason. This registry also seems to be a single reference presumably at just
the one location, the mother's current residence.
So the brother and sister could have been born many months apart and it's
not inconceivable the mother could catch a bus from Manchester to Southport
or vice versa in that time.
However the fact this has been posted to rec.puzzles, and the above
explanation not being very intriguing suggests it probably isn't the right
answer either.
Maybe the district boundaries changed overnight in the few hours between
births? No, unlikely Southport was ever part of Manchester.
Bart
Mike Williams
>
>"Mike Williams" <nos...@econym.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:Y$cT7CAeP...@econym.demon.co.uk...
>> While researching my family tree, I came across two odd entries in the
>> Birth Certificate registry for Jan-Feb-Mar 1962:
>>
>> http://econym.googlepages.com/hardikers.jpg
>>
>> The two entries that I'm interested in are:
>>
>> HARDIKER, Karen A.
>> Mother's maiden surname: GORTON
>> District: Manchester
>> Vol: 10e
>> Page: 822
>>
>> HARDIKER, Michael L.
>> Mother's maiden surname: GORTON
>> District: Southport
>> Vol: 10f
>> Page: 1052
>>
>> Further investigation shows that they are both children of Leslie V.
>> HARDIKER and Margaret R. HARDIKER (nee GORTON).
>>
>> So how could sister and brother have been born in different towns 40
>> miles apart?
>
>The date of registration (that would determine the volume and page of the
>entry) is not necessarily that of the birth.
Bingo.
>While the requirement is within
>14 days or whatever now, perhaps one was a (very) late entry, for whatever
>reason. This registry also seems to be a single reference presumably at just
>the one location, the mother's current residence.
The law in the UK is that a birth must be registered within 42 days of
the date of birth. Both children did have their births registered within
that period. No laws were broken.
>So the brother and sister could have been born many months apart and it's
>not inconceivable the mother could catch a bus from Manchester to Southport
>or vice versa in that time.
Correct. From Manchester to Southport.
>However the fact this has been posted to rec.puzzles, and the above
>explanation not being very intriguing suggests it probably isn't the right
>answer either.
You're just missing one small significant point.
>Maybe the district boundaries changed overnight in the few hours between
>births? No, unlikely Southport was ever part of Manchester.
No.
CBFalconer
The Hardiker menage moved. And delays are involved in posting
local data.
--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>
Try the download section.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
mensa...@aol.com
I just watched the last episode of the latest
Dr. Who series - where the Master returns and
transforms the Doctor into an elderly gentleman!
Bill Rider
were born on a train.
If it states the residence of the mother, perhaps one was registered
when they were born and the other after she moved, or perhaps her legal
residence changed in the minutes or hours between births.
Mike Williams
Here's what I think happened:
English law says:
If the mother and the baby's father were not married at the time of
the birth, the father's details can only be entered into the register
if both parents attend together to register the birth or a statutory
declaration is made.
If the parents were not married to each other at the time of the birth
and the father did not attend with the mother to register the baby it
is possible to re-register the birth at any time in the future to
include the father's details in the registration and change the
surname of the child if required. A form is available from the
Register Office that has to be completed by both parents.
I guessed that's what happened. The children were originally registered,
separately, with the mother's surname at the time of their birth, and
re-registered years later.
I then searched back through previous years and found these Birth
Certificate registry entries which support that hypothesis:
In the resister for Apr-May-Jun 1959
http://econym.googlepages.com/Gorton1.jpg
GORTON, Michael L.
Mother's maiden surname: GORTON
District: Southport
Vol: 10f
Page: 870
In the register for Jan-Feb-Mar 1958
http://econym.googlepages.com/Gorton2.jpg
GORTON Karen A.
Mother's maiden surname: GORTON
District: Manchester
Vol: 10e
Page: 636
Margaret R. GORTON married Leslie V. HARDIKER in Oct-Nov-Dec 1961 and
the children were re-registered with the father's surname.
Re-registering a birth is presumably a lengthier process than
registering a marriage, so they could well have initiated the process at
the time of the marriage, and the process was completed in Jan-Feb-Mar
1962.
As you can see from the JPGs, there's nothing in the register to
indicate that the 1962 entries were re-registrations.