What is the shortest word that can't be placed on a Scrabble board?
DOYLE60
Matt
Dirk Van de moortel
"DOYLE60" <doy...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20030828171825...@mb-m07.aol.com...
> What is the shortest word that can't be placed on a Scrabble board?
>
> Matt
spoiler...
spoiler...
spoiler...
spoiler...
4 letters maybe with the following:
kick: http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=kick
keek: http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=keek
kook: http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=kook
kaka: http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=kaka
juju: http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=juju
Dirk Vdm
Dirk Van de moortel
"Dirk Van de moortel" <dirkvand...@ThankS-NO-SperM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nwu3b.5976$Ly6.2...@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
and jazz of course.
But I didn't take the 2 blanks into account :-(
When you do that, I estimate the shortest word to be
7 letters...
Nice puzzle :-)
Dirk Vdm
DOYLE60
suggested are playable.
Matt
Ted S.
SperM.hotmail.com> wrote in news:nwu3b.5976$Ly6.2...@phobos.telenet-
ops.be:
>4 letters maybe with the following:
>
>kick: http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=kick
>keek: http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=keek
>kook: http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=kook
>kaka: http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=kaka
>juju: http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=juju
You can use one of the blanks for the second K or J.
--
Ted S.: change .spam to .net to reply by e-mail
Homer Simpson: I'm sorry Marge, but sometimes I think we're the worst
family in town.
Marge: Maybe we should move to a larger community.
<http://www.snpp.com/episodes/7G04.html>
Jared
>
> Matt
Well, it could be a word with four Z's, Q's, J's, or X's or a word with two
occurrences of any two of the above. But since you didn't specify that the
word must otherwise fall within the Scrabble rules, my answer to your
question is the one-letter word, "a". "I" also fits, except that it must
always be capitalized, which makes it in violation of 2 Scrabble rules.
Alan Morgan
The shortest I can come up with is 7 letters.
pizzazz
Alan
--
Defendit numerus
Eric Harshbarger
Simple, the words 'A' or 'I' work since the rules of scrabble dictate
that all played words must be at least two letters long (even for the
opening move).
Besides that degenerative case, I believe PIZZAZZ is the correct answer.
Of course, there are also issues of what constitutes a 'word', but I
assume we should consider the Official Scrable Player's Dictionary or
other such source.
eric harshbarger
www.ericharshbarger.org
DOYLE60
capitalized in the Oxford English Dictionary.
I don't know if Pizzazz is the shortest if the one-letter answers are omitted.
It is in the Scrabble Dictionary. Is this a mistake? Maybe not, there are
some variations which may permit it but I'm not certain of it.
Matt
Alan Morgan
Eric Harshbarger <er...@ericharshbarger.org> wrote:
>
>Simple, the words 'A' or 'I' work since the rules of scrabble dictate
>that all played words must be at least two letters long (even for the
>opening move).
I am so annoyed with myself for not spotting that.
>Of course, there are also issues of what constitutes a 'word', but I
>assume we should consider the Official Scrable Player's Dictionary or
>other such source.
Obviously we can't use the OSPD because that only lists words that
can be played. :-)
Alan
--
Defendit numerus
Mark Brader
> What is the shortest word that can't be placed on a Scrabble board?
Any 16-letter word, such as "electromagnetism".
Matt said "placed", not "played", so we aren't constrained by the rules
of the game -- we can *place* any word of up to 15 letters by using the
tiles from two or more Scrabble sets.
Hmm, "two or more" -- that suggests another question. Say that we
only consider words found in dictionaries (thus no extravagantly long
chemical terms), and follow the usual Scrabble rules about capitals
and so forth (thus no extravagantly long Welsh or Maori place names).
Then are there *any* English words, of any length, that could not be
formed from two sets of Scrabble tiles? If so, what is the shortest
such word? I don't know the answers.
(Remember that the two sets of tiles include four blanks, which can
each stand for any letter.)
--
Mark Brader | "I have on occasion manufactured technical terms that
Toronto | have made it into common use in the literature.
m...@vex.net | But not many, and I'm licensed." --John Lawler
My text in this article is in the public domain.
David Vestal
news:vktdht1...@corp.supernews.com...
> Matt Doyle writes:
> > What is the shortest word that can't be placed on a Scrabble board?
>
> Any 16-letter word, such as "electromagnetism".
>
> Matt said "placed", not "played", so we aren't constrained by the rules
> of the game -- we can *place* any word of up to 15 letters by using the
> tiles from two or more Scrabble sets.
If we're wearing our pedantic hats, we can place words of arbitrary length on a
scrabble board if we just write them small enough. We aren't constrained to use
Scrabble tiles.
The Qurqirish Dragon
>only consider words found in dictionaries (thus no extravagantly long
>chemical terms), and follow the usual Scrabble rules about capitals
>and so forth (thus no extravagantly long Welsh or Maori place names).
>Then are there *any* English words, of any length, that could not be
>formed from two sets of Scrabble tiles? If so, what is the shortest
>such word? I don't know the answers.
Considering the four blanks, it would have to be a LONG word (you need 7 of a
letter that appears 1 per set, 9 from two different singletons, 11 from 3
singletons, or 13 from 4 of them. If any of these letters has more than 1 per
set, even more are needed.)
After adding in the needed vowels, you are probably looking at a 20-letter word
or longer! There aren't that many words of that length in total!
I would think that a medical dictionary would be the best place to look.
Unless, of course, you allow words like "bzzzzzzz" for a bee's noise, or
"zzzzzzz" for sleeping.
--
The Qurqirish Dragon, posting from his home somewhere in Ohlam.
--==<<{{ UDIC }}>>=--
Remember- my address is no laughing matter
Nick Wedd
<kapm0rgan-at-yahoo-dot-com@?.?.invalid> writes
>Well, it could be a word with four Z's, Q's, J's, or X's or a word with two
>occurrences of any two of the above.
Pedantic note:
not two of any, but two of any one and three of any other
>But since you didn't specify that the
>word must otherwise fall within the Scrabble rules, my answer to your
>question is the one-letter word, "a". "I" also fits, except that it must
>always be capitalized, which makes it in violation of 2 Scrabble rules.
Nick
--
Nick Wedd ni...@maproom.co.uk
Jared
"Nick Wedd" <ni...@maproom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XGTmctcXm1T$EA...@maproom.demon.co.uk...
Right you are, governor
Jim Gillogly
> What is the shortest word that can't be placed on a Scrabble board?
I'm not a Scrabble expert, but my set claims it has one K in it.
How about "kakkak", the yellow bittern (Ixobrychus sinensis)?
I think it doesn't make sense to restrict it to words in the
Scrabble Dictionary, since it needn't include unreachable words.
--
Jim Gillogly
Hevensday, 7 Halimath S.R. 2003, 16:05
12.19.10.9.16, 6 Cib 4 Mol, Seventh Lord of Night
DOYLE60
>How about "kakkak", the yellow bittern (Ixobrychus sinensis)?
>I think it doesn't make sense to restrict it to words in the
>Scrabble Dictionary, since it needn't include unreachable words.
I was not looking for this answer; "a" satisfied me. And "a" is not listed in
the Scrabble Dictionary. I don't have my Scrabble dictionary here but I do
know the impossible pizzazz is in it and so kakkak may be in it as well. If
so, than you win, so far, for words two letters or more.
I don't think the makers of the dictionary took the trouble to take out
impossible words. So the question could be asked: What is the shortest word in
the most current Scrabble dictionary that is impossible to play under the
regular rules?
We do need a designated dictionary to make it official. Some dictionaries may
have zzzz. Who knows?
I think puzzles are interesting when they are simple and eloquent. The two
sets of letters discussion is much like two sets of tangrams being used to form
an image. Is there anything amusing about that?
Matt
Mike Williams
>What is the shortest word that can't be placed on a Scrabble board?
How about "da", it's not in the list of acceptable scrabble words when
playing under the TWL98 rules.
--
Mike Williams
Gentleman of Leisure
George Weinberg
>>I'm not a Scrabble expert, but my set claims it has one K in it.
>>How about "kakkak", the yellow bittern (Ixobrychus sinensis)?
>>I think it doesn't make sense to restrict it to words in the
>>Scrabble Dictionary, since it needn't include unreachable words.
>
>I was not looking for this answer; "a" satisfied me. And "a" is not listed in
>the Scrabble Dictionary. I don't have my Scrabble dictionary here but I do
>know the impossible pizzazz is in it and so kakkak may be in it as well. If
>so, than you win, so far, for words two letters or more.
>
>I don't think the makers of the dictionary took the trouble to take out
>impossible words. So the question could be asked: What is the shortest word in
>the most current Scrabble dictionary that is impossible to play under the
>regular rules?
>
Maybe. It's possible that they left out kakkak becuase the guy making
the dictionary realized it couldn't be played and put pizzazz in
becuase it didn't occur to him that this is also unplayable.
I'm not a big fan of the scrabble dictionary.
>We do need a designated dictionary to make it official. Some dictionaries may
>have zzzz. Who knows?
>
I do! I made a dictionary just now that contains zzzz!
>I think puzzles are interesting when they are simple and eloquent. The two
>sets of letters discussion is much like two sets of tangrams being used to form
>an image. Is there anything amusing about that?
>
>Matt
I took this as being an obpuzzle and checked. Obviously some people
think so.
http://educ.queensu.ca/~fmc/september2001/DoubleTan.htm
George
Ted S.
news:20030829122740...@mb-m28.aol.com:
>I was not looking for this answer; "a" satisfied me. And "a" is not
>listed in the Scrabble Dictionary. I don't have my Scrabble
>dictionary here but I do know the impossible pizzazz is in it and so
>kakkak may be in it as well. If so, than you win, so far, for words
>two letters or more.
PIZZAZZ isn't in my copy of OSPD2 (outdated, since it's now the Tournament
Word List that's official and not Merriam-Webster's OSPDs). PIZAZZ is,
however, as are PIZAZZY and PIZAZZES.
Dirk Van de moortel
"Ted S." <fe...@bestweb.spam> wrote in message news:Xns93E695E0E5B5A8j...@127.0.0.1...
> Somebody claiming to be doy...@aol.com (DOYLE60) wrote in
> news:20030829122740...@mb-m28.aol.com:
>
> >I was not looking for this answer; "a" satisfied me. And "a" is not
> >listed in the Scrabble Dictionary. I don't have my Scrabble
> >dictionary here but I do know the impossible pizzazz is in it and so
> >kakkak may be in it as well. If so, than you win, so far, for words
> >two letters or more.
>
> PIZZAZZ isn't in my copy of OSPD2 (outdated, since it's now the Tournament
> Word List that's official and not Merriam-Webster's OSPDs). PIZAZZ is,
> however, as are PIZAZZY and PIZAZZES.
http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=pizzazz
Dirk Vdm
Graeme Thomas
<doy...@aol.com> writes
>I was not looking for this answer; "a" satisfied me. And "a" is not listed in
>the Scrabble Dictionary. I don't have my Scrabble dictionary here but I do
>know the impossible pizzazz is in it and so kakkak may be in it as well. If
>so, than you win, so far, for words two letters or more.
>
>I don't think the makers of the dictionary took the trouble to take out
>impossible words. So the question could be asked: What is the shortest word in
>the most current Scrabble dictionary that is impossible to play under the
>regular rules?
The makers of the various Scrabble dictionaries[1], both in North
America and in the UK, have removed the various "impossible" words from
the list. In particular, PIZZAZZ isn't in any of them.
However, recently the (North American) National Scrabble Association[2]
ran a project to compile a list of the allowable "long words", i.e.,
those of length 10-15 letters. I don't think any attempt was made to
remove impossible words from that list, and I believe that they have
RAZZMATAZZ and RAZZAMATAZZ (and their plurals) in, as well as
KNICKKNACK.
[1] http://www.teleport.com/~stevena/scrabble/faq.html
[2] http://www.scrabble-assoc.com
--
Graeme Thomas
DOYLE60
>ran a project to compile a list of the allowable "long words", i.e.,
>those of length 10-15 letters. I don't think any attempt was made to
>remove impossible words from that list, and I believe that they have
>RAZZMATAZZ and RAZZAMATAZZ (and their plurals) in, as well as
>KNICKKNACK.
>
>[1] http://www.teleport.com/~stevena/scrabble/faq.html
>[2] http://www.scrabble-assoc.com
Thanks Graeme, but could you be more direct with the above sites? I don't know
what you are referencing. Thanks,
I bought my dictionary a year ago and it was the newest. It had Pizzazz. I
found that it annoyingly didn't have many words in it past 8 letters. This
doesn't help when we ponder attaching prefixes and suffixes to long words.
I believe they should add legal words even if impossible under the normal
rules. Some players like to make variations on the rules. I do.
Matt
Graeme Thomas
<doy...@aol.com> writes
>>[1] http://www.teleport.com/~stevena/scrabble/faq.html
>>[2] http://www.scrabble-assoc.com
>
>Thanks Graeme, but could you be more direct with the above sites? I don't know
>what you are referencing. Thanks,
The first refernce is to the Scrabble FAQ. It has (amongst a great many
other things) the details of what goes in which Scrabble dictionaries.
The second reference is the website of the National Scrabble
Association, which runs organized Scrabble in the United States and
Canada. Somewhere on that site is the reference to the Long Words list
that I mentioned.
>I bought my dictionary a year ago and it was the newest. It had Pizzazz.
Which dictionary is this? It's not an official English Scrabble
dictionary, as none of them has PIZZAZZ in it. Chambers English
Dictionary boasts of being the official Scrabble reference, but that's
not really true; it has PIZZAZZ.
>I
>found that it annoyingly didn't have many words in it past 8 letters. This
>doesn't help when we ponder attaching prefixes and suffixes to long words.
The limitation on word length suggests that your dictionary is OSPD3.
It doesn not have PIZZAZZ in it, although it *does* have PIZAZZ.
>I believe they should add legal words even if impossible under the normal
>rules. Some players like to make variations on the rules. I do.
I agree. OSW1 had separate entries for words with and without accents.
(For example, there were two entries for PATE; one, accented, is a sort
of meat paste; the other, unaccented, is the head.) The rationale was
that these would be useful for playing word games other than Scrabble,
where the accents are ignored. I pointed out that consistency would
require them to add PIZZAZZ, so the accents were dropped in OSW2.
But even with the standard rules, it's possible to play PIZZAZZ. The
rules require players to check before each game that there is a standard
set of tiles, but many players do not. The rules further state that if
players start with a non-standard distribution, they are required to
finish with that set. So, if you start with a set with 3 or more
blanks, for example, PIZZAZZ is playable.
--
Graeme Thomas
DOYLE60
I'm sorry. I must not have had my glasses on when I looked up Pizzazz. It is
not in there. I have The Official Scrabble Players Dictionary, Third Edition,
1996.
You're possible Pizzazz with an extra Z mistakenly included was interesting.
Though to add too many qualifiers to my question certainly would dull the
point.
I don't believe the Scrabble dictionary should include words that have accents,
even if for other games. If it's in it, it should be playable in the legal
sense. But it can't hurt to put in impossible words like the ones I'm saying,
they are impossible in an unobtrusive manner.
Have you ever seen the puzzle on the back of the deluxe scrabble board, the one
that asks how a certain long word was played? I puzzled over it for an hour
before giving up. I was greatly disappointed when the answer was that it could
be played because they were using different rules. Give me a break! Of
course, no one would guess that. It's hardly a fair challenge when the answer
is the rules are changed.
If you haven't seen it, I'm not sorry to spoil it for you or anyone. It's
lame.
Matt
Graeme Thomas
<doy...@aol.com> writes
>I'm sorry. I must not have had my glasses on when I looked up Pizzazz. It is
>not in there. I have The Official Scrabble Players Dictionary, Third Edition,
>1996.
Right. That dictionary is *not* used in tournament and club play in
NOrth America. Instead they use the _Official Tournament and Club Word
List_, which is similar except that OTaCWL has all the rude words in.
>I don't believe the Scrabble dictionary should include words that have accents,
>even if for other games. If it's in it, it should be playable in the legal
>sense.
The rules for Scrabble say that accents should be ignored. So, whether
PATE means a meat paste or a head, it's playable. The accents were put
in the first edition of Official Scrabble Words so that the accented
words could be ignored, if appropriate. But every word (except for the
mistakes!) in OSW1 was playable in Scrabble.
--
Graeme Thomas
ma...@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk
Graeme Thomas <gra...@graemet.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>But even with the standard rules, it's possible to play PIZZAZZ. The
>rules require players to check before each game that there is a standard
>set of tiles, but many players do not. The rules further state that if
>players start with a non-standard distribution, they are required to
>finish with that set. So, if you start with a set with 3 or more
>blanks, for example, PIZZAZZ is playable.
Well if the players fail to check before the game whether the set of tiles
is standard, then they have not followed the rules, which would mean that
it is not possible to play pizzazz with the standard rules.
But I guess the players could check that the tiles are standard, but still
fail to notice that there is an extra Z, in which case the rules would
have been followed.
Derek Holt.